Quotes of the day

posted at 8:31 pm on May 31, 2014 by Allahpundit

Colorado’s Civil Rights Commission on Friday ordered a baker to make wedding cakes for same-sex couples, finding his religious objections to the practice did not trump the state’s anti-discrimination statutes…

Phillips, a devout Christian who owns the Masterpiece Cakeshop in the Denver suburb of Lakewood, said the decision violates his First Amendment rights to free speech and free exercise of his religion. “I will stand by my convictions until somebody shuts me down,” he told reporters after the ruling.

He added his bakery has been so overwhelmed by supporters eager to buy cookies and brownies that he does not currently make wedding cakes…

The panel issued its ruling verbally. It ordered Phillips to stop discriminating against gay people and to report quarterly for two years on staff anti-discrimination training and any customers he refuses to serve.

***

The commission voted unanimously for the bakery to change its policy of not serving to gay people and ordered a quarterly reporting to confirm it is not turning away customers because of their sexual orientation.

“Religious freedom is undoubtedly an important American value, but so is the right to be treated equally under the law free from discrimination,” said Amanda Goad, staff attorney with the ACLU Lesbian Gay Bisexual and Transgender Project. “Everyone is free to believe what they want, but businesses like Masterpiece Cakeshop cannot treat some customers differently than others based on who they are as people.”

***

“When it came time to file the lawsuit we realized that this wasn’t just about us and they weren’t just supporting us as individuals,” Mullins said. “They were supporting the idea that gays shouldn’t be discriminated against in public accommodations. We felt like the best way we could honor what they had done for us was to follow this through. It hasn’t always been the easy road, but I believe we’ve been on the right one.”

In his December ruling, administrative law judge Robert N. Spencer said offering the same services to gay couples as it would heterosexual couples did not violate the cake shop owner’s right to free speech or prevent him from exercising his religion…

“At first blush, it may seem reasonable that a private business should be able to refuse service to anyone it chooses,” the judge wrote. “This view, however, fails to take into account the cost to society and the hurt caused to persons who are denied service simply because of who they are.”…

“It’s either live and work according to his conscience or collect a paycheck and that’s not choice at all,” Martin said. “It’s not a choice Americans should have to make.”

***

By what legal authority does the panel make these demands of Phillips? I’m not even speaking philosophically. I disagree with Colorado’s public accommodation discrimination laws, but at least they are actual laws. The Colorado Civil Rights Commission is a made of unelected appointees from the governor. I looked through the commission’s list of rules (pdf), and while the 56-page document is full of all sorts of guidelines on how discrimination hearings should take place and pages upon pages of rules regarding employment discrimination, it doesn’t actually have a lot to say about what sort of remedies the commission is able to enforce, other than giving plaintiffs clearance to sue. But I am not a lawyer and could have missed all sorts of stuff in my skimming. (Also of note: It is against the law in Colorado to put up a sign in a business that says anything similar to “We reserve the right to refuse service to anyone”). By what right does Colorado claim to be able to demand the names of Phillips’ non-clients? Doesn’t that violate the privacy of a third party completely unconnected to this case?

***

According to The New York Times, a case the Supreme Court heard in March, involving a challenge to Obamacare’s requirement that businesses pay for their employees’ contraceptives, “pits religious liberty against women’s rights.” Similarly, the recent controversy over an Arizona bill aimed at protecting business owners from being forced to treat homosexual and heterosexual couples alike was widely perceived as a conflict between religious liberty and gay rights.

Both of these debates are more accurately described as clashes between real rights and fake rights. They pit negative liberty, which requires freedom from external restraint, against positive liberty, which imposes demands on other people’s resources. Under the latter vision, giving freedom to one person requires taking it away from another…

But does the government have a compelling interest in forcing people to accept behavior that violates their deeply held beliefs? There is an important difference between requiring the government to treat gay and straight couples the same and requiring private citizens to do so. One is a matter of equal treatment under the law, while the other is intolerance disguised as its opposite…

[A]ccording to [the ACLU], photographers, bakers, and florists must be conscripted for gay weddings. Exactly who is imposing on whom in that situation? By choosing positive liberty over negative liberty, the ACLU is forsaking the freedoms it claims to defend.

***

Jack Phillips isn’t discriminating against gay Coloradans. Gay customers, as far as all the news stories have suggested, are free to shop in the bakery and purchase (at the same price) any of the cakes, cookies, pastries they like without ever being asked by anyone who they love or what the gender equation is in their sex life. Public accommodations, fine. But the fact is that Phillips does not want to participate in a specific ceremony because he holds authentic, well-documented, age-old religious objections to such an event in the same way that a Hasidic Jew or orthodox Muslim may not want to participate in a ceremony that proclaims Jesus our Lord and Savior. Maybe if we begin forcing atheists to party plan baptisms to make the point clearer.

Though you, and I, may find Phillips objections lacking in merit or even objectionable, according to the blueprint of the American Founding, religious concerns should take precedent over any “civil rights” of cake seekers. Forcing Americans to violate their religion should be avoided unless there is a clear and undeniable compelling interest. Is there no other establishment that bakes cakes in all of Lakewood, Colorado? Because I found at least a dozen other bakeries in the town and surrounding areas. Two years ago, the president of the United States agreed with Phillips, yet today the latter is being run out of business for failing to evolve quickly enough. All this, when capitalism provides gay Coloradans with a bunch of pro-gay businesses they could support less than a mile away.

***

I do like the notion of same-sex marriage as a liberation gateway drug. Inclusion of LGBT people within institutions like marriage will eventually transform those institutions, just as including women, non-whites, non-Anglos, and non-Christians has done. The experiences and perspectives of LGBT people are different from those of straight people, and different in a good way.

So, if I had to predict, I’d go with a gradual realization of the conservative nightmare—only it won’t be a nightmare, and plenty of straight people will thank us for it. Maybe gays will preserve marriage precisely by redefining, expanding, and reforming it—and maybe then it can be palatable to progressives, as one of a multitude of options.

We can entertain these divergent visions of the future because same-sex marriage was really a campaign, not a movement. For a moment, it brought together liberals, progressives, and even some conservatives. But now that its goal is within sight, the center cannot hold.

And then, things get interesting.

***


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Comment pages: 1 6 7 8

Jack and Axe, one hopes that someday they will make movies and tv for entertainment purposes once again instead of ideological purposes.

crankyoldlady on June 1, 2014 at 5:15 AM

Exactly!

Axe on June 1, 2014 at 5:20 AM

morning COL..
hope you slept well..

going2mars on June 1, 2014 at 5:21 AM

…MORNING!…some people just don’t get any sleep!…and I know you’re good looking!…so when do you get your “beauty rest”?
…can it be done?…in “naps”?

KOOLAID2 on June 1, 2014 at 5:23 AM

Look, all this is pointless. All I’m going to do is hand Sophie everything and beg.

^ Master plan.

Axe on June 1, 2014 at 5:18 AM

Good luck Axe. A woman like that is hard to find. A guy like you is hard to find too. A girl like me is hard to find. Everybody is unique. Just my philosophical 2 cents this fine morning.

crankyoldlady on June 1, 2014 at 5:24 AM

^ Master plan.

Axe on June 1, 2014 at 5:18 AM

don’t want to over think these things..
its a great plan..
and pray it works..

going2mars on June 1, 2014 at 5:24 AM

I think I need more coffee.

crankyoldlady on June 1, 2014 at 5:25 AM

I suck at doing nothing. All right — I’ll try again.

<—DN

KOOLAID2 on June 1, 2014 at 5:23 AM

Hi, k2! Long time no see. :)

. . . well that lasted six seconds.

. . . K. I’ll try again.

<—DN

Axe on June 1, 2014 at 5:26 AM

im going to nap.. before the birds start their racket outside..
and that big glowing orange orb comes up…
good luck axe with your master plan….cheers..

going2mars on June 1, 2014 at 5:28 AM

im going to nap.. before the birds start their racket outside..
and that big glowing orange orb comes up…
good luck axe with your master plan….cheers..

going2mars on June 1, 2014 at 5:28 AM

Good night G2.

crankyoldlady on June 1, 2014 at 5:29 AM

Axe on June 1, 2014 at 5:26 AM

…hi Axe!

crankyoldlady on June 1, 2014 at 5:29 AM

…hi col!…just drove in from Florida…trying to wind down…before I crash after 24 hours. Went down there to “sweat”…after the winter we had…and it is as warm here now…as it was down there!

KOOLAID2 on June 1, 2014 at 5:43 AM

…hi col!…just drove in from Florida…trying to wind down…before I crash after 24 hours. Went down there to “sweat”…after the winter we had…and it is as warm here now…as it was down there!

KOOLAID2 on June 1, 2014 at 5:43 AM

I don’t know where you are but it certainly is hot in Ohio. 87 today. I know that isn’t anything like places like AZ or Death Valley but…

crankyoldlady on June 1, 2014 at 5:51 AM

I need to get the cleaning done before it gets hot. This place is a disaster area. I need to take pictures of 2 new paintings, take the garbage out to the road and then I can do nothing…I think.

crankyoldlady on June 1, 2014 at 5:53 AM

“Hey, Mo. How bouts you cook me some bacon.”

BigAlSouth on June 1, 2014 at 6:21 AM

“Hey, Mo. Mind if my companion dog sits in the back of you cab with me?”

BigAlSouth on June 1, 2014 at 6:22 AM

“Hey, Mo. Can you turn down that loud speaker a tad? The whole town can hear it.”

BigAlSouth on June 1, 2014 at 6:24 AM

“Hey, Mo. Preciate the wedding invite, but dang. She’s not even ten yet.”

BigAlSouth on June 1, 2014 at 6:25 AM

“Hey, Mo. How bouts you cook me some bacon.”

BigAlSouth on June 1, 2014 at 6:21 AM

Who is this and what is he talking about?

crankyoldlady on June 1, 2014 at 7:02 AM

COL: All religions are equal. Some are more equal than others.

BigAlSouth on June 1, 2014 at 7:10 AM

I guess queers are too stupid to realize you don’t piss off the chef

this an easily solvable problem

Doyle Hargrave on June 1, 2014 at 7:19 AM

Forcing Americans to violate their religion should be avoided unless there is a clear and undeniable compelling interest.

Which is exactly what the state of Colorado is claiming–that forced acceptance and celebration of a union that violates nature and the definition of marriage is a compelling interest. The only compelling interest of the state related to religion that I can imagine would involve banning practices that physically harm a person or animal (e.g., human or animal sacrifice).

DrMagnolias on June 1, 2014 at 7:21 AM

Three very strange things have happened on the past week:

1. That weird hug and Judas kiss the big O gave to Jay Carney.

2. The outting of that CIA agent in Afghanistan

3. The release of the US POW in exchange for 5 very dangerous GITMO detainees.

I am becoming more and more paranoid.

esr1951 on June 1, 2014 at 7:34 AM

I am becoming more and more paranoid.

esr1951 on June 1, 2014 at 7:34 AM

Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean they aren’t out to get you.

I know it’s been said before but I don’t have original thoughts.

crankyoldlady on June 1, 2014 at 7:36 AM

COL, the remainder of the big O’s term is going to be very dangerous.

esr1951 on June 1, 2014 at 7:48 AM

COL, the remainder of the big O’s term is going to be very dangerous.

esr1951 on June 1, 2014 at 7:48 AM

For us, yes. Don’t much care what happens to him.

crankyoldlady on June 1, 2014 at 8:12 AM

In his December ruling, administrative law judge Robert N. Spencer said offering the same services to gay couples as it would heterosexual couples did not violate the cake shop owner’s right to free speech or prevent him from exercising his religion…

True. Next time when you imprison him or just shackle and whip him I say he’ll still exercise his religion as best he can. We know it did not prevent slaves the last time either.Oh there’s that word.
Thank you massa Spencer. God deliver us.

onomo on June 1, 2014 at 8:31 AM

Why no one ever fights these things on “Freedom of Association” grounds is beyond me. Forget about your religion, you have the right to NOT associate with any and all people you choose not to.

abobo on June 1, 2014 at 8:32 AM

The judge should have stopped ‘at first blush’. Again, we have unelected judges or officials telling us how to run our businesses and it seems that they like attacking religious beliefs best. There can be no such thing as same sex marriage and any church that provides the services should get a letter from Paul.

Kissmygrits on June 1, 2014 at 8:41 AM

Blessed Sabbath, Patriots! And, Trolls.

“The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” – Edmund Burke

My take: Phil Robertson, America, and Me (A KJ Sunday Morning Message)

kingsjester on June 1, 2014 at 8:56 AM

There’s something curious about a man who makes frilly cakes with pink rosettes and frosting flourishes for a living bellyaching about gay weddings.

But hey…to each their own. ;)

JetBoy on June 1, 2014 at 9:22 AM

But hey…to each their own. ;)

JetBoy on June 1, 2014 at 9:22 AM

No. Apparently not.

Bmore on June 1, 2014 at 9:41 AM

In the lefty handbook this is the first step to nationalizing all businesses. Sen. E. Warren let us know that is going to happen with her: “You didn’t build that.” comment. She is, of course, wrong as most of the US infrastructure was built and maintained by individuals and small groups of individuals until it was nationalized by the government.

The gay couples had the right to pick any bakery they wanted to do business with and businesses have always had the right to refuse service to any customer until this brave new world order of Obama’s which, strangely enough is a step back into the old communist tyranny. Everything was perfectly fair…to both parties but the gay community cannot be happy being equal – they have to be victims and treated better than anyone else.

evie1949 on June 1, 2014 at 9:57 AM

Mmm! Free wood! :)

Judge_Dredd on June 1, 2014 at 9:58 AM

There’s something curious about a man who makes frilly cakes with pink rosettes and frosting flourishes for a living bellyaching about gay weddings.

But hey…to each their own. ;)

JetBoy on June 1, 2014 at 9:22 AM

That’s exactly the kind of stereotyping that pushes people into homosexual behavior in the first place.

Count to 10 on June 1, 2014 at 10:02 AM

That’s exactly the kind of stereotyping that pushes people into homosexual behavior in the first place.

Count to 10 on June 1, 2014 at 10:02 AM

LOL!

bazil9 on June 1, 2014 at 10:33 AM

So a Jewish wedding in a Mosque is OK now?

faol on June 1, 2014 at 10:50 AM

That’s exactly the kind of stereotyping that pushes people into homosexual behavior in the first place.

Count to 10 on June 1, 2014 at 10:02 AM

omg…

http://i.imgur.com/GBPj4ug.gif

JetBoy on June 1, 2014 at 11:42 AM

Why would any couple want a wedding cake baked and decorated by someone who didn’t want the job?

TimBuk3 on June 1, 2014 at 11:42 AM

Should the government compel a Klansman who owns a bakery to bake a wedding cake for an interracial couple?

NorthernCross on June 1, 2014 at 12:31 PM

Natural Blues, SING IT BISH!

Murphy9 on June 1, 2014 at 12:46 PM

NorthernCross on June 1, 2014 at 12:31 PM

Oh, most definitely–in 2014 America, you are required to do what others want with your privately owned business.

DrMagnolias on June 1, 2014 at 12:56 PM

Why would any couple want a wedding cake baked and decorated by someone who didn’t want the job?

TimBuk3 on June 1, 2014 at 11:42 AM

Deliberate persecution.

The hamster-hung perverts know good and well they can go any of a hundred places to get their cake made. What they want is to blackmail dissenters into cooperation in order to cobble together a fig-leaf of ‘equality’ for their ‘union’.

LawfulGood on June 1, 2014 at 1:16 PM

this activist judge showed no courage…
if the baker had been a Muslim
would he have the courage do rule the same way..

likewise with the gay couple..
why not go to a Muslim baker and tell him he has to make your cake..

the coward of a judge will not rule against the Muslims, so
the gays will find religion fast, and start praying,
when the muzzy baker starts stoning them to death…

going2mars on June 1, 2014 at 1:16 PM

Why would any couple want a wedding cake baked and decorated by someone who didn’t want the job?

TimBuk3 on June 1, 2014 at 11:42 AM

Vengeance is a powerful motivator for some with a lot of butthurt.

non-nonpartisan on June 1, 2014 at 1:19 PM

But hey…to each their own. ;)

JetBoy on June 1, 2014 at 9:22 AM

No. Apparently not.

Bmore on June 1, 2014 at 9:41 AM

so quickly they ensnare themselves in their own traps

Doyle Hargrave on June 1, 2014 at 1:27 PM

I wonder if they will force the Muslim baker to do the same?

rgranger on June 1, 2014 at 1:28 PM

M&M’s is discriminating against a civil rights group it finds scary. They canceled a custom order to print “Knife Rights” on their candy because they found “Knife” to be offensive. Of course campaigning for the protection of the natural right to defend yourself is not PC so Knife Rights probably won’t get a similar ruling if it gets that far.

Eventually Chuck E. Cheese’s will be forced to allow NAMBLA meetings on site…

warden on June 1, 2014 at 2:43 PM

There’s something curious about a man who makes frilly cakes with pink rosettes and frosting flourishes for a living bellyaching about gay weddings.

But hey…to each their own. ;)

JetBoy on June 1, 2014 at 9:22 AM

He’s not “bellyaching about gay weddings.” He would just like to run his business and not have his labor conscripted.

Missy on June 1, 2014 at 3:52 PM

There’s something curious about a man who makes frilly cakes with pink rosettes and frosting flourishes for a living bellyaching about gay weddings.

But hey…to each their own. ;)

JetBoy on June 1, 2014 at 9:22 AM

Curious, perhaps, but not nearly as funny as hearing a gay guy imply that the preparation of food is “woman’s work.”

Axe on June 1, 2014 at 3:56 PM

Any private concern should be allowed to discriminate against anybody for any reason. It is totally antithetical to the concept of freedom to mandate what a private concern must do with its own resources.

oakland on June 1, 2014 at 5:55 PM

Specific text of amendment to Colorado State Constitution in 2006 (still valid):

An amendment to the Colorado constitution, concerning marriage, and, in connection therewith, specifying that only a union of one man and one woman shall be valid or recognized as a marriage in Colorado.

So gay marriages are not a legal thing in Colorado AND the state will force you to participate in this non-existent ceremony against your will?

That makes sense to someone?

Any other extra-legal events I’m required to participate in against my will?

That seems logically inconsistent to me. If something isn’t legal by the State, how is it legal to force someone’s participation?

gekkobear on June 1, 2014 at 6:16 PM

They were supporting the idea that gays shouldn’t be discriminated against in public accommodations.

So sorry. This is a private business. The government has no right to tell him who he must enter into a contract with nor what special training he must give his staff (unless that training is mandated across the board for ALL businesses).

If his bakery is not publicly traded, then he can make whatever business model decisions he wishes to. If I was him, I would just go into the doughnut and cookies business. There is nothing wrong with him entering into a private contract to make cakes for individual customers.

Hammie on June 1, 2014 at 6:47 PM

I do like the notion of same-sex marriage as a liberation gateway drug. Inclusion of LGBT people within institutions like marriage will eventually transform those institutions, just as including women, non-whites, non-Anglos, and non-Christians has done.

Then entire article quoted above was basically incoherent, but this graf really sticks out.
In what way did including women in marriage transform the institution, unless you believe that the original couple was Adam and Steve?
Likewise, plenty of non-whites, non-Anglos, and non-Christians have been getting married for thousands of years.

(I actually understand his contention, but the phraseology was pitifully deficient.)

AesopFan on June 1, 2014 at 10:45 PM

See “The gay invention” at http://www.touchstonemag.com for why there’s no such thing as the pervert propaganda of “gay” or “homosex-” that has as easily brainwashed the world as pretending the delusion that there are any in the world truly “black” or “white” when scientifically all are rather various shades of brown.
Also see http://www.DrJudithReisman.org for how pervert child molester Kinsey was so important in this destruction of American morals jurisprudence. Fools can pretend there’s such a thing as “same sex marriage” but God isn’t fooled and will have the last laugh as He did when Rome went down the same suicidal path as ours degenerates into a vile miasma of STDs & ever more broken relationships and incalculable collateral damage fools who don’t take God’s laws concerning marriage and family and holy living seriously and pay for it with their lives at their own murderous hands as they did during the French Revolution. God is not mocked, not matter what the fools in denial (and that’s not a river in Egypt!) about Him imagine.

russedav on June 2, 2014 at 2:38 PM

Comment pages: 1 6 7 8