VA IG report confirms: 1,700 vets seeking care weren’t on official wait list at Phoenix VA, wait times for others averaged 115 days

posted at 2:47 pm on May 28, 2014 by Allahpundit

Read that headline again. One hundred and fifteen days on average when the official/bogus VA wait list showed an average wait of just 24 days. In reality, sick vets were waiting nearly five times as long as Phoenix administrators were claiming. And while the IG declines to make any concrete accusations as to motives, he does seem to have a hunch.

This is what a “crime syndicate” looks like.

To date, our work has substantiated serious conditions at the Phoenix HCS. We identified about 1,400 veterans who did not have a primary care appointment but were appropriately included on the Phoenix HCS’ EWLs [electronic wait lists]. However, we identified an additional 1,700 veterans who were waiting for a primary care appointment but were not on the EWL. Until that happens, the reported wait time for these veterans has not started. Most importantly, these veterans were and continue to be at risk of being forgotten or lost in Phoenix HCS’s convoluted scheduling process. As a result, these veterans may never obtain a requested or required clinical appointment. A direct consequence of not appropriately placing veterans on EWLs is that the Phoenix HCS leadership significantly understated the time new patients waited for their primary care appointment in their FY 2013 performance appraisal accomplishments, which is one of the factors considered for awards and salary increases.

To review the new patient wait times for primary care in FY 2013, we reviewed a statistical sample of 226 Phoenix HCS appointments. VA national data, which was reported by Phoenix HCS, showed these 226 veterans waited on average 24 days for their first primary care appointment and only 43 percent waited more than 14 days. However, our review showed these 226 veterans waited on average 115 days for their first primary care appointment with approximately 84 percent waiting more than 14 days. At this time, we believe that most of the waiting time discrepancies occurred because of delays between the veteran’s requested appointment date and the date the appointment was created. However, we found that in at least 25 percent of the 226 appointments reviewed, evidence, in veterans’ medical records, indicates that these veterans received some level of care in the Phoenix HCS, such as treatment in the emergency room, walk in clinics, or mental health clinics.

The IG also took care to note that, of the 42 VA facilities where his teams are now gathering evidence, none received advance notice that they were coming. Why? Because he’s worried about “the risk of destruction of evidence, manipulation of data, and coaching staff on how to respond to our interview questions.” That was the key takeaway from the Daily Beast “crime syndicate” story that Ed blogged this morning — even the higher-ups inside the VA know or should have known that this has been going on, and since everyone’s potentially culpable, the chances of a conspiracy to cover it up are unusually high. (The IG notes at one point that the DOJ may eventually be involved here in a civil or criminal manner.) This is what caring for America’s soldiers has come to, a race against time to ferret out evidence of egregious negligence towards sick vets before the “caretakers” can sweep it under the rug. And that’s not the only evidence of deep dysfunction. The IG says he’s heard “numerous allegations daily of mismanagement, inappropriate hiring decisions, sexual harassment, and bullying behavior by mid- and senior-level managers at this facility.” Is that run-of-the-mill backbiting and score-settling among employees or is the Phoenix VA really this troubled in its internal operations?

Via the Daily Caller, here’s McCain calling for Shinseki’s resignation. Obama said last week that he wanted to reserve judgment and see what the investigations turned up before he made any personnel decisions; a week later here we are, with the IG reminding readers up front that fully 18 reports about scheduling problems at the VA have been issued by his office since 2005. How many more “studies” does Obama need? Pull the plug already.


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Schadenfreude on May 28, 2014 at 2:49 PM

Nothing will change without complete elimination of performance (sic) bonuses for government employees.

rlwo2008 on May 28, 2014 at 2:50 PM

obama treats the terrorists and the illegals better than the US Veterans.

Schadenfreude on May 28, 2014 at 2:50 PM

This really needs some Voxsplaining.

MTF on May 28, 2014 at 2:51 PM

Put all the Veterans on the same healthcare program the thugs in DC have. Period.

Let them be on camera when they argue/vote against it, ahead of the 2014 elections.

Schadenfreude on May 28, 2014 at 2:52 PM

The IG notes at one point that the DOJ may eventually be involved here in a civil or criminal manner.

Don’t tempt me

Newtie and the Beauty on May 28, 2014 at 2:52 PM

Oh boy. Wait till Obama reads about this in tomorrow’s paper. Steam will be coming out of his ears.

NotCoach on May 28, 2014 at 2:53 PM

Here’s the deal: government screws everything up, always. Sometimes the damage is immense and people actually get killed, like here in this instance, or are impoverished. Other times its down at the level of pure harassment (like when the EPA goes after a rancher for building a pond on his own land). But it’s never easy or good when government gets involved.

MTF on May 28, 2014 at 2:55 PM

Here’s the deal: government screws everything up, always. Sometimes the damage is immense and people actually get killed, like here in this instance, or are impoverished. Other times its down at the level of pure harassment (like when the EPA goes after a rancher for building a pond on his own land). But it’s never easy or good when government gets involved.

MTF on May 28, 2014 at 2:55 PM

Why do you want schoolchildren to die from eating poisonous food, you homophone. Read a geology book sometime.

NotCoach on May 28, 2014 at 2:57 PM

Waiting Times. Waiting lists are a huge problem in Great Britain. Some examples: 750,000 are on waiting lists for hospital admission; 40% of cancer patients are never able to see an oncologist; there is explicit rationing for services such as kidney dialysis, open heart surgery and care for the terminally ill. Further, minimum waiting times have been instituted to reduce costs.

Oh yea: Single payer will fix the VA.

jmtham156 on May 28, 2014 at 2:58 PM

Oh boy. Wait till Obama reads about this in tomorrow’s paper. Steam will be coming out of his ears.

NotCoach on May 28, 2014 at 2:53 PM

Nobody is madder than Obama already.

Happy Nomad on May 28, 2014 at 2:59 PM

VA IG report confirms: 1,700 vets seeking care weren’t on official wait list at Phoenix VA

Where is Libfree? It declared this to be a phony scandal back when it was represented as a few rogue clerks at Phoenix.

Happy Nomad on May 28, 2014 at 3:00 PM

I think what is called for here is for Obama to get his White House photo team to take some posed pictures of the President, somber-faced and humble, laying a wreath on the “Tomb Of The Untreated Soldier”.

Imagine the optics!

jbspry on May 28, 2014 at 3:02 PM

Why do you want schoolchildren to die from eating poisonous food, you homophone. Read a geology book sometime.

NotCoach on May 28, 2014 at 2:57 PM

Also I denounce myself for misogyny and racism.

MTF on May 28, 2014 at 3:03 PM

A direct consequence of not appropriately placing veterans on EWLs is that the Phoenix HCS leadership significantly understated the time new patients waited for their primary care appointment in their FY 2013 performance appraisal accomplishments, which is one of the factors considered for awards and salary increases.

Theft via fraud. And too widespread to be a random coincident. Criminal RICO.

rbj on May 28, 2014 at 3:04 PM

However, we found that in at least 25 percent of the 226 appointments reviewed, evidence, in veterans’ medical records, indicates that these veterans received some level of care in the Phoenix HCS, such as treatment in the emergency room, walk in clinics, or mental health clinics.

So, 75% of that 226 don’t have any type of delivered care in their record?

And for the 25% who do, it was delivered at a higher cost than it would have been through primary care?

Wonder if that 25% had high paying DRGs.

lineholder on May 28, 2014 at 3:07 PM

Someone should compare what the VA did to scheduling, against what Obama has done to Obamacide, er Obamacare. How many times have the scheduled dates been pushed back because of performance bonuses/elections?

May parallels, aren’t there.

LouisianaLightning on May 28, 2014 at 3:09 PM

Has anyone anywhere been fired yet over this? For God’s sake, if THIS isn’t a big enough scandal to get someone canned, then it’s literally impossible for a government employee to lose their job even if there are dead bodies involved.

Doughboy on May 28, 2014 at 3:10 PM

Has anyone anywhere been fired yet over this? For God’s sake, if THIS isn’t a big enough scandal to get someone canned, then it’s literally impossible for a government employee to lose their job even if there are dead bodies involved.

Doughboy on May 28, 2014 at 3:10 PM

Explain to me what you actually ‘fix’, when someone is fired?

weedisgood on May 28, 2014 at 3:11 PM

Obama careless

APACHEWHOKNOWS on May 28, 2014 at 3:14 PM

Explain to me what you actually ‘fix’, when someone is fired?

weedisgood on May 28, 2014 at 3:11 PM

Tell us what gets fixed when you keep the same liers on the payroll..

Electrongod on May 28, 2014 at 3:14 PM

The VA is nothing but an affirmative action jobs program.

docflash on May 28, 2014 at 3:14 PM

Tell us what gets fixed when you keep the same liers on the payroll..

Electrongod on May 28, 2014 at 3:14 PM

Government healthcare can’t be ‘fixed’.
Hate to break that news to you.

weedisgood on May 28, 2014 at 3:16 PM

Explain to me what you actually ‘fix’, when someone is fired?

weedisgood on May 28, 2014 at 3:11 PM

This is another one of those so damn stupid not even being baked explains it.

NotCoach on May 28, 2014 at 3:16 PM

Doughboy on May 28, 2014 at 3:10 PM

I suspect just firing people won’t fix it. The system is broken and now is the time to fix it completely. Get the government out of the VA health care business except for those areas they have specialty expertise for military type wounds. As it is, there will always be corruption, no matter who gets fired.

butch on May 28, 2014 at 3:17 PM

Gitmo wait time: 0 days

faraway on May 28, 2014 at 3:18 PM

Hi,
I,m a government list want to bet your life on me?

APACHEWHOKNOWS on May 28, 2014 at 3:19 PM

I’m certainly not opposed to firing those responsible, though. Just because.

butch on May 28, 2014 at 3:20 PM

I suspect just firing people won’t fix it. The system is broken and now is the time to fix it completely. Get the government out of the VA health care business except for those areas they have specialty expertise for military type wounds. As it is, there will always be corruption, no matter who gets fired.

butch on May 28, 2014 at 3:17 PM

This is undeniable, but not something the Mad Hatter-in-Chief will do. So if the system isn’t being scrapped, what is he doing to improve it? Certainly not removing those who are probably criminally negligent in their duties.

NotCoach on May 28, 2014 at 3:20 PM

Explain to me what you actually ‘fix’, when someone is fired?

weedisgood on May 28, 2014 at 3:11 PM

Well for starters, you get rid of employees who value bonuses and salary bumps over the lives and well-being of sick and wounded veterans. Also, those fired employees are a warning to anyone else at the VA who may think this sort of behavior will be tolerated.

It won’t fix the entire problem, but it’s a start.

Doughboy on May 28, 2014 at 3:20 PM

Government healthcare can’t be ‘fixed’.
Hate to break that news to you.

weedisgood on May 28, 2014 at 3:16 PM

Then lets keep it alive and well funded….

What could go wrong?

Electrongod on May 28, 2014 at 3:20 PM

I think what is called for here is for Obama to get his White House photo team to take some posed pictures of the President, somber-faced and humble, laying a wreath on the “Tomb Of The Untreated Soldier”.

Imagine the optics!

jbspry on May 28, 2014 at 3:02 PM

That’s what the Memorial Day Afghanistan trip was for. To show how much Barky cares about our vets. Didn’t you see the photos of them shaking his hand? They love him! And he cares so very deeply about them — enough even to take a day away from the golf course to pose for photos with them.

What more do you bitter clingers want?

AZCoyote on May 28, 2014 at 3:22 PM

Local D A,s need call up Grand Jury,s
Then charge for the crimes.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on May 28, 2014 at 3:23 PM

We are witnessing the failure of liberalism. We will then witness the mental illness of liberalism as they deny everything and try again.

John the Libertarian on May 28, 2014 at 3:24 PM

Explain to me what you actually ‘fix’, when someone is fired?

weedisgood on May 28, 2014 at 3:11 PM

Put patients & doctors first, ahead of government programs & bureaucrats.
Fire people who perform poorly.
No bonuses. Period.

22044 on May 28, 2014 at 3:26 PM

Every time I went to The V.A. Hospital the clerks would ask me what my disability rating was. When I told them, my care was quickly expedited. If you are under 30% disabled you may find your ass in a sling.

celtic warrior on May 28, 2014 at 3:26 PM

Government healthcare can’t be ‘fixed’.
Hate to break that news to you.

weedisgood on May 28, 2014 at 3:16 PM

Then it should be privatized and the Central Gubmint’s *ahem!* responsibility for providing health care in central physical locations such as VA hospitals should be rescinded.

Newtie and the Beauty on May 28, 2014 at 3:31 PM

Explain to me what you actually ‘fix’, when someone is fired?

weedisgood on May 28, 2014 at 3:11 PM

Explain to me what you’ll actually “fix” when these people are not only fired but prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. If’n WitHolder doesn’t have the stones to prosecute these people, the individual states should file FOIAs and pick up his slack.

Newtie and the Beauty on May 28, 2014 at 3:34 PM

Obamacide

LouisianaLightning on May 28, 2014 at 3:09 PM

Nice

faraway on May 28, 2014 at 3:37 PM

The VA government is nothing but an affirmative action jobs program.
docflash on May 28, 2014 at 3:14 PM

fixed it for you.

Garyinaz66 on May 28, 2014 at 3:38 PM

Um, AP? Honey? Is there anything that can be done to tweak some of these videos so they don’t autoplay when the page is loaded? If not, I can live with it…

Thanks!

*smooooch!*

Newtie and the Beauty on May 28, 2014 at 3:43 PM

How many more “studies” does Obama need? Pull the plug already.

Shinseki probably has a bonus coming to him in July…and Obama would hate to prevent him from getting it for his hard work over the last year.

nextgen_repub on May 28, 2014 at 3:45 PM

Um, AP? Honey? Is there anything that can be done to tweak some of these videos so they don’t autoplay when the page is loaded? If not, I can live with it…

Thanks!

*smooooch!*

Newtie and the Beauty on May 28, 2014 at 3:43 PM

Good luck with that, after you keep running up his tab every night, Newtie!

22044 on May 28, 2014 at 3:50 PM

Who cares? It’s only the Vets at Phoenix-

Signed, Libfree
/

CW on May 28, 2014 at 3:53 PM

Explain to me what you actually ‘fix’, when someone is fired?

weedisgood on May 28, 2014 at 3:11 PM

When brain is fried…

Schadenfreude on May 28, 2014 at 3:56 PM

Good luck with that, after you keep running up his tab every night, Newtie!

22044 on May 28, 2014 at 3:50 PM

Shhhhhhh! ;-)

Newtie and the Beauty on May 28, 2014 at 3:56 PM

Finally. An actual scandal.

libfreeordie on May 19, 2014 at 3:48 PM

Schadenfreude on May 28, 2014 at 3:56 PM

VADeathPanelsForBonusesGate

Finally. An actual scandal.

libfreeordie on May 19, 2014 at 3:48 PM

Schadenfreude on May 28, 2014 at 3:58 PM

The staggering reality of trying to manage anything in the USA from a central point. Waste fraud abuse and death.

Keep bowing to your precious government you reprobate and depraved leftists. You deserve what is coming more than anyone else.

Murphy9 on May 28, 2014 at 4:03 PM

Under seige

Schadenfreude on May 28, 2014 at 4:13 PM

So far, President Obama has stood by his VA secretary, though the White House released a statement saying the president has been briefed on the findings and found them “extremely troubling.” Shinseki released a statement on Wednesday calling the latest findings “reprehensible,” but did not offer his resignation.

Obama just read about it.

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/05/28/watchdog-finds-systemic-problems-at-va-top-republican-joins-calls-for-shinseki/

Walter L. Newton on May 28, 2014 at 4:20 PM

Trust me I gave you Obama care…

APACHEWHOKNOWS on May 28, 2014 at 4:21 PM

This is what a “crime syndicate” looks like.

this is govt healthcare

burserker on May 28, 2014 at 4:22 PM

I think what is called for here is for Obama to get his White House photo team to take some posed pictures of the President, somber-faced and humble, laying a wreath on the “Tomb Of The Untreated Soldier”.

Imagine the optics!

jbspry on May 28, 2014 at 3:02 PM

Soldier probably should be written in the plural

On Thursday, the L.A. County Coroner’s Office made the shocking claim to local media, that the bodies of as many as 60 veterans have been stored in the county morgue, some for well over ayear, while county officials wait for the U.S. Veterans Administration (VA) to claim them. Most of these vets were impoverished, some were likely homeless and died apart from their families.

Happy Nomad on May 28, 2014 at 4:26 PM

Finally. An actual scandal.

libfreeordie on May 19, 2014 at 3:48 PM

You’ve been proven wrong once again Libbie. This is indeed a scandal but more importantly, it is quickly proving to have been a crime. I hope Eric Shinseki is the first one frog marched to justice.

Happy Nomad on May 28, 2014 at 4:29 PM

1,700 vets seeking care weren’t on official wait list at Phoenix VA, wait times for others averaged 115 days

They were just getting what they deserved according to kochforbrains.

xblade on May 28, 2014 at 4:32 PM

How many of the VA Hospitals are in areas where the local DA is a Democrat?

APACHEWHOKNOWS on May 28, 2014 at 4:33 PM

There are hundreds, perhaps thousands of VA employees who participated in this fraud and then took bonuses – some in the tens of thousands a year, for five years – for the “improvement” they faked.

These people are criminals and need to go to prison, and to have their ill-gotten gains and fines returned to the Treasury, including their pensions as collateral for them.

This is a metaphor in microcosm of the Obama Administration: no one is ever accountable, no matter what.

Adjoran on May 28, 2014 at 4:34 PM

I think its time for a beer summit, I vote SrA Kolfage vs. His Imperial Majeesty Obamadontcareaboutvets. Only thing it has to be televised live.

Sven on May 28, 2014 at 4:39 PM

Don’t know if anyone’s mentioned this – but “single payer” would look EXACTLY like the VA healthcare system – with all it’s known (and apparently unknown) warts.

HondaV65 on May 28, 2014 at 4:40 PM

Let’s put congress & the prezzy on VA plan. Man I bet it would be changed overnight.
HE DOESN’T CAARE! HE DOESN’T CARE!
When are we going to wake up and realize that?

Bambi on May 28, 2014 at 4:47 PM

Put patients & doctors first, ahead of government programs & bureaucrats.
Fire people who perform poorly.
No bonuses. Period.

22044 on May 28, 2014 at 3:26 PM

Who administers what? Definitely end the bonus system.

Well for starters, you get rid of employees who value bonuses and salary bumps over the lives and well-being of sick and wounded veterans. Also, those fired employees are a warning to anyone else at the VA who may think this sort of behavior will be tolerated.

It won’t fix the entire problem, but it’s a start.

Doughboy on May 28, 2014 at 3:20 PM

It is a good start. How do you identify those employees (who value bonuses and salary bumps over the lives and well-being of sick and wounded veterans) beyond those who are found to have committed identified fraud?

rlwo2008 on May 28, 2014 at 4:48 PM

I haven’t gone near a VA since I completed service. I have a friend currently suspected of throat cancer that was sent to another state for MRI’s, biopsies etc. There are three perfectly good and well equipped hospitals within walking distance (ok, long walk, but still) of the local VA. He has been waiting for a diagnosis for 8-10 weeks and can now barely talk. ‘Nuff said.

DemetriusPhalerum on May 28, 2014 at 4:52 PM

How many more studies does King Barack need? Uh, HOW MANY can be done between now and Jan 2017?

That POS in the White House doesn’t give a damn about anything but that POS in the White House.

GarandFan on May 28, 2014 at 5:04 PM

http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/phoenix-veterans-hospital-investigated/

Veterans Affairs hospitals secret waiting lists allegations
United States Department of Veterans Affairs
1h
White House: Veterans Affairs needs to take immediate steps to reach out to veterans who are waiting to schedule appointments – @Reuters
End of alert
=============

Barack Obama
1h
White House: President Obama says findings in inspector general report of Veterans Affairs wait times ‘very troubling,’ says immediate steps needed to resolve issue – @Reuters
End of alert
=============

Joe Manchin
1h
Sen. Joe Manchin, D-WV, calls for independent outside audit of Department of Veterans Affairs allegations – @ChadPergram
End of alert
=============

Eric Shinseki
3h
House Veteran Affairs Committee Chair Jeff Miller, R-Fla., calls on VA Secretary Eric Shinseki to resign immediately – @ChadPergram
End of alert
==============

Phoenix, AZ, US
3h
Veterans Affairs inspector general: Veterans at Phoenix VA hospital waited an average of 115 days for first appointment – @AP
End of alert
==============

Phoenix, AZ, US
3h
Veterans Affairs inspector general’s report finds that 1,700 veterans using Phoenix VA hospital were kept on unofficial wait lists – @washingtonpost
Read more on washingtonpost.com
================================

United States Department of Veterans Affairs
3h
Veterans Affairs inspector general’s report: ‘We are finding that inappropriate scheduling practices are a systemic problem nationwide’ – @frankthorpNBC
End of alert
==============

United States Department of Veterans Affairs
3h
Veterans Affairs inspector general releases report – @DeptVetAffairs
see original on http://www.va.gov

http://www.va.gov/oig/pubs/VAOIG-14-02603-178.pdf
==================================================

Chuck Hagel
18h
Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel orders 90-day review of military health care system – @AP
Read more on bigstory.ap.org

canopfor on May 28, 2014 at 5:05 PM

Colorado, US
7m
Sen. Mark Udall, D-Colo., calls on Veterans Affairs Secretary Eric Shinseki to resign – @denverpost
Read more on denverpost.com
=============================

Senator Mark Udall calls for VA head Shinseki to resign
The Associated Press
Posted: 05/28/2014 02:52:29 PM MDTAdd a Comment | Updated: about 2 hours ago
*****************

DENVER (AP) — Colorado Democratic Senator Mark Udall is calling for Veterans Affairs Secretary Eric Shinseki to resign.

Udall becomes the first Democratic senator to make such a demand in the ongoing scandal over VA medical care. He made his statement Wednesday on Twitter after the release of an internal report that found the VA systemically delayed care to wounded veterans and manipulated records to cover it up.
The VA’s inspector general is investigating 42 VA facilities across the country. It found the average wait time for care at the Phoenix VA hospital was 115 days.

In his tweet Udall said, quote, “In light of IG report & systemic issues” Shinseki should step down.

http://www.denverpost.com/breakingnews/ci_25851552/senator-mark-udall-calls-va-head-shinseki-resign

canopfor on May 28, 2014 at 5:16 PM

I’m so angry about this scandal, I’m going to have to stop listening to the news for a while. It’s driving my blood pressure up and I feel powerless to do anything until I can next vote.

theCork on May 28, 2014 at 5:22 PM

Pravda has no words to print on this new crime.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on May 28, 2014 at 5:23 PM

Didn’t some famous democrat say that he “loathed” the military?

rightside on May 28, 2014 at 5:32 PM

Is there a way for some of these veterans to make their way to Gitmo for care?

I hear there are plenty of doctors and medical care there is super timely and top notch. Only the best for our enemies…our vets, not so much.

marybel on May 28, 2014 at 5:33 PM

Heckuva job, Shinseki!

Christien on May 28, 2014 at 5:40 PM

Seem’s god decided Obama’s legacy will be trash and not much else a ironic fate for him. Michelle will be the food police that will be her legacy again ironic.

sorrowen on May 28, 2014 at 5:43 PM

And so it begins:

Sen. John Walsh, D-Montana, joins Sen. Mark Udall in calling for Veterans Affairs Secretary Eric Shinseki to resign
==================================================

Veterans Affairs hospitals secret waiting lists allegations
Eric Shinseki
28m
Sen. John Walsh, D-Montana, joins Sen. Mark Udall in calling for Veterans Affairs Secretary Eric Shinseki to resign – @^nnbrk
Read more on www.*nn.com

http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/phoenix-veterans-hospital-investigated/

canopfor on May 28, 2014 at 5:43 PM

The VA fudges their wait list…
 
triple on May 23, 2014 at 8:55 PM

 
They only fudged it a little, racists.

rogerb on May 28, 2014 at 5:44 PM

I want to see people go to jail for this, make no mistake.

But for God’s sake in the mean time, can we PLEASE get these Vets in to see a doctor? If the VA cant get them in to be seen and treated TOMORROW, then get them to a private doctor. Let the bastards collecting bonus’s pay for it.

JusDreamin on May 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM

Explain to me what you actually ‘fix’, when someone is fired?

weedisgood on May 28, 2014 at 3:11 PM

The fools who practice this genocide against our vets never get the chance again.

Next…..

itsspideyman on May 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM

Vouchers for Vets?

Christien on May 28, 2014 at 5:55 PM

Explain to me what you actually ‘fix’, when someone is fired?

weedisgood on May 28, 2014 at 3:11 PM

Let me put this in a real life situation. We had a guy that simply could not obey the rules. He was the direct cause of several incidents that caused regulatory problems for the company. He was warned several times. His supervisor explained the problem to him and outlined the necessary corrective action to no avail. His final transgression was the erroneous release of a tank of contaminated water which resulted in a fine for the company. The cause was that he just didn’t pay attention to what he was doing. He was fired. After that he no longer caused problems for the company or his co-workers. If you don’t do the job you are paid to do in the manner it should be done you are a liability to the entity you work for and should be fired.

Oldnuke on May 28, 2014 at 6:11 PM

The BandWagon get bigger’er:

Tweets All / No replies

Jake Tapper ‏@jaketapper 21m

Sen @kayhagan says it “is time for (Shinseki) to step aside and allow new leadership to take the helm at the VA to correct these failings”

Jake Tapper ‏@jaketapper 46m

.@RepJeffMiller calls for Shinseki’s resignation, says VA employees may face criminal charges

Jake Tapper ‏@jaketapper 57m

Sen @JohnWalsh, D-MT, the Senate’s only Iraq War veteran: “It is time for President Obama to remove Secretary Shinseki from office.”

Jake Tapper ‏@jaketapper 2h

Coming up on #TheLead, 1st live interview w/@HouseVetAffairs chairman @RepJeffMiller who just minutes ago called for Shinseki resignation

canopfor on May 28, 2014 at 6:10 PM

canopfor on May 28, 2014 at 6:12 PM

I want to see people go to jail for this, make no mistake.

JusDreamin on May 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM

Just happened to catch Andrew Napolitano on Fox this afternoon talking about that very thing. His opinion was that there was no way for Holder to ignore this, that he had to act. Don’t know if I agree with him on that judging from Holder’s past actions. In any case Napolitano outlined the criminal actions that VA personnel engaged in. He made a clear case for negligent homicide against them because people died as a result of their actions. I don’t think this is going away anytime soon. We’ll see.

Oldnuke on May 28, 2014 at 6:16 PM

Explain to me what you actually ‘fix’, when someone is fired?

weedisgood on May 28, 2014 at 3:11 PM

Maybe fired is a bad word, impeachment is better, now do you understand?

Sven on May 28, 2014 at 6:28 PM

What? This is how liberals want the whole health care system to operate. This isn’t a criminal enterprise. This is the model.

K. Hobbit on May 28, 2014 at 6:43 PM

I just got back from seeing the doctor for a little problem of littler consequence. I still have my self-paid private insurance with a well known HMO. I called this morning and got to see the doctor in FIVE HOURS.

Why should any of our vets deserve anything less? Pay their premiums and let them go where they please.

BTW, I think they should keep the VA hospitals and upgrade each one of them as state of the art facilities specializing in battlefield injuries, both physical and mental. Without the bureaucratic BS, of course. I dream.

ncinca on May 28, 2014 at 6:51 PM

If the VA cant get them in to be seen and treated TOMORROW, then get them to a private doctor. Let the bastards collecting bonus’s pay for it.

JusDreamin on May 28, 2014 at 5:51 PM

I don’t know what it’s like in other VA locations, but Phoenix has an abundance of good doctors, and multiple top-rate hospitals. If the Phoenix VA couldn’t handle its patient load, it could and should have contracted out the work locally. There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for what they did to our veterans.

I am enraged about this. Enraged.

AZCoyote on May 28, 2014 at 6:58 PM

OBOZO now has his (YET ANOTHER) report on the VA DEATH SYSTEM. So he’ll immediately fire the VA’s KILLER-IN-CHIEF Shinseki, right?
NB: Don’t hold your breath waiting for that – it’s more likely Shinseki will get a RAISE and a PROMOTION.

MicahStone on May 28, 2014 at 7:14 PM

A few of the old timers on here know about my personal situation.

I am beginning to think that the Tampa FL VA euthanized my husband. I questioned them about their methods and Ernie’s options… We were given no options. Just morphine. Remember, he was only 44 years old. And, I miss him terribly.

Key West Reader on May 28, 2014 at 7:17 PM

Key West Reader on May 28, 2014 at 7:17 PM

My deepest condolences, KWR. I’m so sorry for your loss.

Newtie and the Beauty on May 28, 2014 at 7:35 PM

Putting a name and face to this hideous tragedy makes it so much more heinous; My most sincere condolences to you, Key West Reader. I’m just so embarrassed that our CIC doesn’t have the ability to feel the shame that the rest of us do as to how our Veterans have been treated.

BettyRuth on May 28, 2014 at 7:44 PM

The House hearing is occurring right now. Greta just showed a clip…looks like it is getting ugly.

esr1951 on May 28, 2014 at 7:50 PM

Yes, Key West. You have our deepest condolences. This must be an absolute nightmare for you.

esr1951 on May 28, 2014 at 7:52 PM

After getting through the funeral, the headstone, etc… I now have had time to reflect on everything that went on from December 1 to February 6th.

Justice will be served, but not by me. I am a woman of faith and I know that Justice will be meted out to those who deserve it.

It’s just that NOW that this is all coming out, if I had known the inner workings of the VA/ObamaCare… I could have done more to save him.

That’s why I’m so mad.

Key West Reader on May 28, 2014 at 8:07 PM

That’s why I’m so mad.

Key West Reader on May 28, 2014 at 8:07 PM

I have no words, Just deep sorrow.

esr1951 on May 28, 2014 at 8:15 PM

Having lived in five socialist countries, I can tell you that the VA is likely much worse than you think.

When we lived in Norway, my sister’s appendix ruptured. They didn’t have any rooms, so she spent her entire hospital stay in a bed in the hallway.

My brother got an ear infection in London. Six attempts to clear it up using the National Health Service failed. He was completely deaf before an NHS doctor told him to go to a private doctor on Harley Street, who gave him antibiotics that worked. By that time the infection had punctured both his eardrums.

In Japan you didn’t dare go to either the doctor or the dentist. Dentists used mallets and chisels to remove decayed teeth. The doctors all seemed to be graduates of Unit 731. If they didn’t somehow hurt you, they weren’t doing their job.

In Belgium, depressed people can choose euthanasia as a treatment. The world’s greatest expert on anorexia is Dr. Walter Vandereycken. It turns out that the good doctor has been having sex with his female patients for decades. When one finally agreed to testify against him, another psychiatrist euthanized her. At her request.

By their nature bureaucrats can’t be made to care. When you give bureaucrats hospitals, it’s a catastrophe in the making.

A Chair of Some Kind on May 28, 2014 at 8:17 PM

By their nature bureaucrats can’t be made to care. When you give bureaucrats hospitals, it’s a catastrophe in the making.

A Chair of Some Kind on May 28, 2014 at 8:17 PM

This entire post should be on QOTD thread.

My condolences to you.

Key West Reader on May 28, 2014 at 8:26 PM

Hey, we have some great new solar panels at our VA.

Sven on May 28, 2014 at 8:45 PM

I don’t know what it’s like in other VA locations, but Phoenix has an abundance of good doctors, and multiple top-rate hospitals. If the Phoenix VA couldn’t handle its patient load, it could and should have contracted out the work locally. There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever for what they did to our veterans.

I am enraged about this. Enraged.

AZCoyote on May 28, 2014 at 6:58 PM

You and me both AZ.
My oldest Brother lives out in Apache Junction, he literally brags about the care that he gets, so I’d say he agrees with you on PHX quality and availability. No excuse. It’s criminal, not to mention immoral.

JusDreamin on May 28, 2014 at 8:46 PM

Has anyone anywhere been fired yet over this? For God’s sake, if THIS isn’t a big enough scandal to get someone canned, then it’s literally impossible for a government employee to lose their job even if there are dead bodies involved.

Doughboy on May 28, 2014 at 3:10 PM

The template was set with Benghazi. What difference does it make?

Alien on May 28, 2014 at 9:04 PM

My condolences to you.

Well, my first-hand experience taught me that everything–EVERYTHING–we hear from advocates of government health care is a lie.

If cultures as diverse as the Venezuelans, Brits, Japanese, Dutch, and Norwegians can’t make it work, shouldn’t that tell us something?

Government health care always comes down to money. In the US, emergency treatment is known as “scoop and run,” meaning “Get the patient to the hospital as quickly as possible where he or she will be stabilized.”

All government-run EMS uses the “stay and play” approach, which means stabilizing the patient on scene.

This is designed to kill more people, because ambulances simply can’t carry the proper equipment. That’s why Princess Dianna died. They worked on her for an hour at the scene.

A country can have either first-rate armed forces or government health care. It can’t have both. There simply isn’t enough money in existence to pay for both.

Since government health care can’t be made to work, I choose the armed forces.

A Chair of Some Kind on May 28, 2014 at 9:07 PM

It would seem given that the VA has had a surplus of funds for the last 5 years, there would be sufficient funding for fee for service in the private sector.

rlwo2008 on May 28, 2014 at 9:11 PM

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