WaPo columnist: Let’s blame Judd Apatow for Santa Barbara massacre

posted at 8:01 am on May 27, 2014 by Ed Morrissey

In the wake of mass murders, the media produces some wild and ludicrous fantasies that usually — and not coincidentally — revolve around the hobby horses of the analysts. The Washington Post offered an excellent example of this over the weekend, when Ann Hornaday argued that the real culprit for Eliot Rodger’s murder spree was … Judd Apatow, James Bond, and a bad Robert Downey flick that probably only Hornaday remembers.

No, seriously:

Indeed, as important as it is to understand Rodger’s actions within the context of the mental illness he clearly suffered, it’s just as clear that his delusions were inflated, if not created, by the entertainment industry he grew up in. With his florid rhetoric of self-pity, aggression and awkwardly forced “evil laugh,” Rodger resembled a noxious cross between Christian Bale’s slick sociopath in “American Psycho,” the thwarted womanizer in James Toback’s “The Pick-Up Artist” and every Bond villain in the canon.

As Rodger bemoaned his life of “loneliness, rejection and unfulfilled desire” and arrogantly announced that he would now prove his own status as “the true alpha male,” he unwittingly expressed the toxic double helix of insecurity and entitlement that comprises Hollywood’s DNA. For generations, mass entertainment has been overwhelmingly controlled by white men, whose escapist fantasies so often revolve around vigilantism and sexual wish-fulfillment (often, if not always, featuring a steady through-line of casual misogyny). Rodger’s rampage may be a function of his own profound distress, but it also shows how a sexist movie monoculture can be toxic for women and men alike.

How many students watch outsized frat-boy fantasies like “Neighbors” and feel, as Rodger did, unjustly shut out of college life that should be full of “sex and fun and pleasure”? How many men, raised on a steady diet of Judd Apatow comedies in which the shlubby arrested adolescent always gets the girl, find that those happy endings constantly elude them and conclude, “It’s not fair”?

There are plenty of grounds to criticize Hollywood for the coarsening of culture and the cheapening of the arts. Apatow can be criticized on those grounds, too. However, watching Hollywood movies does not create acute mental illness and sociopathic tendencies, especially not on an individual basis — and these are clearly the factors in play in the Santa Barbara massacre.

Even Hornaday finally admits that:

Even if 51 percent of our movies were made by women, Elliot Rodger still would have been seriously ill. But it’s worth examining who gets to be represented on screen, and how.

Talk about a non-sequitur. It may well be that representation in the arts is “worth examining,” but Hornaday admits at the end that her entire thesis is a false basis on which to frame that examination. Hornaday wanted an opportunity to gripe about the depiction of women on screen, and seized at the opportunity to exploit the Santa Barbara tragedy to gain some attention for her pet cause. That’s shameful.

Hornaday doesn’t even make sense as an art critic in this case, either. It’s a little ignorant to tie Apatow to the depictions of women in Bond films, American Psycho, and The Pick-Up Artist, which do tend to objectify women in whole or in part. Apatow’s films usually give women a fairly strong voice, to the point where the adolescent nature of the “shlubby” males is usually highlighted, and not really in a good way. For instance, in Knocked Up and in The 40 Year Old Virgin, it’s the men who have to grow up, usually because of the influence of the women. Apatow films aren’t the same genre as Porky’s or The Sex Drive, or other adolescent coming-of-age films in that sense.

To miss that in order to lump Apatow in with an utterly forgettable and regrettable film like The Pick-Up Artist (forgettable and regrettable on entirely separate artistic grounds) shows just how desperate Hornaday was to find any reason to talk about an imbalance of power in Hollywood, rather than the Santa Barbara massacre in any meaningful and intelligent manner. It’s sheer exploitation, fueled by non-sequiturs and inane equivalencies in a case that clearly is so singular that we rarely if ever see anything of its like.

Seth Rogen isn’t a fan of this column either, and I can’t blame him.


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Comment pages: 1 2

So you don’t. Well thanks for posting your opinion about my opinion.

JAGonzo on May 27, 2014 at 10:44 AM

Reading is comprehension Mencken. I said “you also have no idea if I have any authority to speak about mental issues.”

My opinion is informed.

Walter L. Newton on May 27, 2014 at 10:45 AM

For generations, mass entertainment has been overwhelmingly controlled by white men,

I thought it was the Jooos.

Oh, wait. It’s a code phrase, isn’t it.

In fact, if you listen real close, you can almost hear her say, “Goy.”

There Goes the Neighborhood on May 27, 2014 at 10:46 AM

I blame the shooter/knifer/car driver and the parents. But mostly the shooter/knifer/car driver.

jukin3 on May 27, 2014 at 10:46 AM

All you have is your opinion masquerading as fact.

Walter L. Newton on May 27, 2014 at 10:22 AM

LOL!! Seems to be a lot of that going around.

deadrody on May 27, 2014 at 10:47 AM

Hey verabldouche, it’s not ‘less’ people, it’s ‘fewer’ people.
Try to be correct while you regurgitate the lies you’ve been fed, m-Kay?

Tard on May 27, 2014 at 10:43 AM

Noted.

And I think you were trying to write ‘verbaldouche’, not ‘verabldouche’.

Since wit failed you, want to try substance?

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 10:48 AM

Noted.

And I think you were trying to write ‘verbaldouche’, not ‘verabldouche’.

Since wit failed you, want to try substance?

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 10:48 AM

What… and ruin your record?

Walter L. Newton on May 27, 2014 at 10:51 AM

Walter L. Newton on May 27, 2014 at 10:45 AM

By?

JAGonzo on May 27, 2014 at 10:52 AM

If one views ‘gun control’ as a way to help lessen risk and not as some confiscation conspiracy, then Cali’s gun laws worked as intended here.

totally agree with you.

No doubt many factor contributed to his motivation, but if one looks rationally at the act itself, he managed to kill 3 people and himself with his guns. People say ‘even in a state with stricter gun control this happens’. But among those controls is a ban on high capacity mags. Maxed out at 10 rounds…not 30+. One can not rationally look at that and not understand that as a result, less people were killed. Less people may have also been killed because he had bad aim. But if had 30/60 rounds to fire at a time without reloading or grabbing another weapon, that wouldn’t have mattered as much.

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 10:35 AM

if it was not for californias gun laws theres no telling the amount of destruction he could have accomplished.

ThisIsYourBrainOnKoch on May 27, 2014 at 10:53 AM

JAGonzo on May 27, 2014 at 10:35 AM

You keep stating this irrelevancy. You continue to be obtuse in the face of reality. Are you a lib by any chance?

dogsoldier on May 27, 2014 at 10:54 AM

Why didn’t anyone shoot back?

Oh. Right. California gun laws. Sheep for the slaughter.

fadetogray on May 27, 2014 at 10:55 AM

Again, after 15 years of therapy. 15 years of some doctor telling him something is wrong with him. It took 15 years before someone realized he needed to be committed?

JAGonzo on May 27, 2014 at 10:35 AM

We don’t really know what kind of therapy or counseling or if it truly was ongoing or sporatic.

It is difficult to have someone committed when they can dress themselves, feed themselves and carry on a lucid conversation. He had no long history of violence to himself or others (as far as reports go).

If having a warped self-perception or worldview were made grounds for in-patient mental care, the entire west coast would be under lock and key.

ROCnPhilly on May 27, 2014 at 10:57 AM

dogsoldier on May 27, 2014 at 10:54 AM

I would argue that you not questioning what is being put out by the media would put you in the leftist camp more than me. Again, unless you have access to records the rest of us don’t.

JAGonzo on May 27, 2014 at 10:57 AM

By?

JAGonzo on May 27, 2014 at 10:52 AM

That is actually none of your business, is it. And now that you have embarrassed yourself into a corner, I’m not about to help you out.

If you want to redeem yourself, start talking fact and stop shoveling us your opinion as fact.

Why are you so immune to just stating “In my opinion…?”

Walter L. Newton on May 27, 2014 at 10:59 AM

ROCnPhilly on May 27, 2014 at 10:57 AM

Exactly!!! Thank you. Based on the information available, I Believe he was not mentally ill. Evil, probably. Misguided with a lack of parental involvement? More than likely. Everyone is so quick to attribute mental illness to bad acts, it distracts from people who really are mentally ill.

JAGonzo on May 27, 2014 at 11:00 AM

What I find most troubling about the wave of mass killers is that it points to an exponentially larger group of severely depressed young man who haven’t and won’t cross that line of insanity but are nonetheless leading desperate lives.

You know someone is going to say something stupid when they begin by telling you what the date is. But in 2014 personal technology has advanced beyond anything we Baby Boomers could have imagined, greatly magnifying the consequences of being a social loser. The extent and quality of an adolescent’s personal life is forever revealed in the message section of his smartphone and others’ social media updates. It’s fantastic for those who fit in, but for those who don’t it’s a constant reminder of the extent of their social failure.

bobs1196 on May 27, 2014 at 11:00 AM

Walter L. Newton on May 27, 2014 at 10:59 AM

What I figured. Again, your opinion is no more valid than mine.

JAGonzo on May 27, 2014 at 11:01 AM

Walter L. Newton on May 27, 2014 at 10:59 AM

Arguing for my opinion, does not mean I am making it truth. What good is stating an opinion and leaving it at that?

JAGonzo on May 27, 2014 at 11:10 AM

JAGonzo on May 27, 2014 at 10:57 AM

I never mentioned the media. Now you’re throwing out nonsense. You have no answer for the fact that they tried to commit this loon other than to ask the irrelevant question, Why did it take so long,

Do mental health professionals try to commit mentally healthy people? Is it suddenly chic?

At this point you’re just being deliberately obtuse.

dogsoldier on May 27, 2014 at 11:10 AM

dogsoldier on May 27, 2014 at 11:10 AM

All the information you are using to argue your opinion, you received it from where? Again, unless you are privy to information the rest of us aren’t, you are arguing based on the same info the rest of us have. I have given you my interpretation.

JAGonzo on May 27, 2014 at 11:12 AM

Perhaps its time to amend the constitution to eliminate this outdated “Freedom of Speech” and “Freedom of the Press” that we don’t need anymore in the 21st century.

Reporters should undergo a full FBI background check and be registered with the government. All news stories should pass a government inspection and undergo a 10 day wait before they possibly could be broadcast.

Who needs to make a movie like this? Who needs to buy tickets to see a movie like this? The government should decide what constitutes a safe movie to watch.

(Obviously satire to prove a point. Mess with my constitutional rights, I’ll mess with yours)

kurtzz3 on May 27, 2014 at 11:19 AM

That’s what I thought, the perfect liberal parents, people who would never go full-disclosure to a psychiatrist about their nutty kid because of the stigma it might cause on the cocktail party circuit.

Bishop on May 27, 2014 at 8:41 AM

In the perfect lib-prog world, everyone has an analyst. I’ve heard many suggest quite seriously that everyone has some kind of problem that a psychiatrist might be able to help with.

The stigma comes when the patient kills a few people.

slickwillie2001 on May 27, 2014 at 11:21 AM

ROCnPhilly on May 27, 2014 at 10:57 AM

Exactly!!! Thank you. Based on the information available, I Believe he was not mentally ill. Evil, probably. Misguided with a lack of parental involvement? More than likely. Everyone is so quick to attribute mental illness to bad acts, it distracts from people who really are mentally ill.

JAGonzo on May 27, 2014 at 11:00 AM

No.

What I was saying is that it is difficult to have a mentally ill person admitted to inpatient care unless they are deemed an immediate threat to themselves or to others.

It’s possible his parents may have pushed for it at some time or another, but were told the same. Of course, this we do not know.

After reading his version of his personal history, my personal opinion is that he was, indeed, mentally ill. His concepts of “work” and “love” were completely disconnected from reality. His belief that others taking no notice of him was some sort of personal slight on their part and especially his complete objectification of women seem pretty paranoid and sociopathic to me.

He was ill. Not ill enough to excuse his behavior, but ill.

ROCnPhilly on May 27, 2014 at 11:23 AM

He had plenty of spending cash, a chick magnet car, a rich, generous Dad …. and he couldn’t get laid in Isla Vista in 2014.

He must have been one incredibly revolting poisonous little toad with serious impulse control issues ….. and that pretty much explains everything.

If he hadn’t had a rich Daddy, he wouldn’t have had $5000 in weapons. He probably would have already been in prison, right where he belonged. There was not enough stress on this worm, so his colors had not been shown to society earlier, when the damage would likely have been much less.

fadetogray on May 27, 2014 at 11:26 AM

OT, re: Texas runoff election.
10am, South Arlington.
No wait, reportedly a sporadic/light turnout so far.
Was asked for ID.
C’mon, Texans !!!

Not ONE Dem voter in sight of Dem setup.

Carry on. ;-).

pambi on May 27, 2014 at 11:26 AM

Guns, Knives and BMW’s the true culture of Hollywood, CA.

Goodie on May 27, 2014 at 11:31 AM

ROCnPhilly on May 27, 2014 at 11:23 AM

His ideas of “love” and what should happen when he approached women were extremely disjointed. To me, he sounded like a bad amalgamation of every crap show on MTV.

JAGonzo on May 27, 2014 at 11:35 AM


Again, after 15 years of therapy. 15 years of some doctor telling him something is wrong with him. It took 15 years before someone realized he needed to be committed?

JAGonzo on May 27, 2014 at 10:35 AM

Cause everyone in Holly-weird is in “therapy” of one sort or another for life? It’s a badge of honor in La La land to share ones therapy sessions around the table.
It’s just so…OH…California, isn’t it? Either that or the Betty Ford clinic to detox from one addiction or another. Life as a rich punk is just so hard in La La land.

They’re all in “recovery” from one thing or another…mostly immaturity, nihilism, narcissism, insecurity or a grandiose sense of self worth. If CA fell into the Pacific…who’d miss it?

FlaVet on May 27, 2014 at 11:38 AM

I think the fact that someone is not able to separate hollywood reality from reality is mental illness.

Sven on May 27, 2014 at 11:39 AM

But among those controls is a ban on high capacity mags. Maxed out at 10 rounds…not 30+. One can not rationally look at that and not understand that as a result, less people were killed. Less people may have also been killed because he had bad aim. But if had 30/60 rounds to fire at a time without reloading or grabbing another weapon, that wouldn’t have mattered as much.

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 10:35 AM

He had 41 loaded ten round mags. I doubt his ability to create additional mayhem was deterred much by lack of mag capacity and mag change times. Actually, for planning this thing for a year, it wasn’t a masterful plan. He knew he was going to off himself, and should have known the cops would get to him long before he used up 400 rounds.

butch on May 27, 2014 at 11:44 AM

FlaVet on May 27, 2014 at 11:38 AM

The only down fall to Kalifornia mimicking the Marianas Trench is all the illegals that flood that state would be forced east.

JAGonzo on May 27, 2014 at 11:46 AM

I wonder if the killer was on any kind of psychotropic medication. I think I read he was getting some sort of counseling (psychiatric?) at one time or another.

iceman1960 on May 27, 2014 at 11:51 AM

His ideas of “love” and what should happen when he approached women were extremely disjointed. To me, he sounded like a bad amalgamation of every crap show on MTV.

JAGonzo on May 27, 2014 at 11:35 AM

Don’t know what was going on in his mind, but his concepts were certainly role-based rather than rooted in experience. He cast himself as the rich, attractive, “most interesting man in the world”. Naturally, women were expected to flock around him.

To still be thinking in such childish terms as an adult is a serious problem. My opinion is that he needed more real-life, hands-on experience at an earlier age. Of course, he may have exhibited extreme approach avoidance which means the situation often gets nuts before the interaction even begins…

But I wasn’t there, so it’s really just a thought after the fact.

ROCnPhilly on May 27, 2014 at 11:55 AM

He had plenty of spending cash, a chick magnet car, a rich, generous Dad …. and he couldn’t get laid in Isla Vista in 2014.

He must have been one incredibly revolting poisonous little toad with serious impulse control issues ….. and that pretty much explains everything.

If he hadn’t had a rich Daddy, he wouldn’t have had $5000 in weapons. He probably would have already been in prison, right where he belonged. There was not enough stress on this worm, so his colors had not been shown to society earlier, when the damage would likely have been much less.

fadetogray on May 27, 2014 at 11:26 AM

$5000 buys a lot of hookers, even in SoCal. Too bad he didn’t simply go that route.

slickwillie2001 on May 27, 2014 at 11:57 AM

They have already included I can’t get laid coverage in obamadontcare. Each patient will recieve a years free vouchers for the prostitute of your choice.

Sven on May 27, 2014 at 12:02 PM

ROCnPhilly on May 27, 2014 at 11:55 AM

Sounds familiar.

butch on May 27, 2014 at 12:07 PM

But among those controls is a ban on high capacity mags. Maxed out at 10 rounds…not 30+. One can not rationally look at that and not understand that as a result, less people were killed. Less people may have also been killed because he had bad aim. But if had 30/60 rounds to fire at a time without reloading or grabbing another weapon, that wouldn’t have mattered as much.

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 10:35 AM

He had 41 loaded ten round mags. I doubt his ability to create additional mayhem was deterred much by lack of mag capacity and mag change times.

butch on May 27, 2014 at 11:44 AM

I don’t doubt it at all. One has to deny physics to suggest it wouldn’t have made a difference. I’ve made this point before and am often met with all sorts of stubborn theories about how a shotgun would be more effective, or how easy and fast it is to reload, etc. Fact is he was a novice at best with these guns.
I don’t think one loses their gun cred bu simply acknowledging that there is indeed a different likely outcome with 30 vs. 10 round mags. The rationale argument could be ‘well I accept that risk and feel society should as well’ – but please don’t say there’s no difference.

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 12:07 PM

JAGonzo on May 27, 2014 at 11:46 AM

Ooops….those unintended consequences. Sigh…watch what we wish for, eh?

But…but…40% of the illegals are already in CA, no, si?

FlaVet on May 27, 2014 at 12:19 PM

It’s fantastic for those who fit in, but for those who don’t it’s a constant reminder of the extent of their social failure.

bobs1196 on May 27, 2014 at 11:00 AM

Only if you buy into the lie that what others say about you matters all that much. Again, a classical education would have given him many more good examples of those who carry on despite “the slings and arrows of outrageous misfortune” than of those who are narcissistic.

I don’t doubt it at all. One has to deny physics to suggest it wouldn’t have made a difference.

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 12:07 PM

No, one doesn’t. The time differential is minimal. You’re denying it simply to cling to your idea that a magazine restriction will somehow protect people.

I wonder if the killer was on any kind of psychotropic medication. I think I read he was getting some sort of counseling (psychiatric?) at one time or another.

iceman1960 on May 27, 2014 at 11:51 AM

One piece of his manifesto says he was prescribed a drug which he refused to take (after researching it on the internet). Scarily, it seems he might have been perfectly lucid on that point.

GWB on May 27, 2014 at 12:26 PM

I figured he would mean our culture’s overriding preoccupation with and overemphasis on sex, and treating people who don’t or haven’t had it as pariahs or laughingstocks. There has been much fun made of people who haven’t found love or sex or friends or something else. This killer is still responsible for his own actions, but there’s too much comedy that’s pointing at someone with an unfortunate or unhappy life and laughing.

bmmg39 on May 27, 2014 at 12:27 PM

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 10:35 AM

He slashed three ofhers. Had the knife victims had a gun, they could have potentially shot the deranged guy and stopped he rest of the killings that followed.

jimver on May 27, 2014 at 12:29 PM

I don’t doubt it at all. One has to deny physics to suggest it wouldn’t have made a difference.

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 12:07 PM

No, one doesn’t. The time differential is minimal. You’re denying it simply to cling to your idea that a magazine restriction will somehow protect people.

GWB on May 27, 2014 at 12:26 PM

Not minimal at all. We’re talking about trigger pulls vs. a reload
If reports are true, he didn’t have much experience with these or other weapons. That likely impeded his ability to kill more people. But high cap mags would have improved his ability.
Anyone can pull a trigger quickly – that just isn’t true for reloading.

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 12:37 PM

I don’t think one loses their gun cred bu simply acknowledging that there is indeed a different likely outcome with 30 vs. 10 round mags. The rationale argument could be ‘well I accept that risk and feel society should as well’ – but please don’t say there’s no difference.

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 12:07 PM

I’m not interested in posturing for gun creds. I guess you’ll have to show me in this case where a life was saved because 30 round mags weren’t used. He had plenty of time to switch. These things aren’t choreographed. These are handguns. They don’t use 30 rounders.

butch on May 27, 2014 at 12:37 PM

They’re all in “recovery” from one thing or another…mostly immaturity, nihilism, narcissism, insecurity or a grandiose sense of self worth. If CA fell into the Pacific…who’d miss it?

FlaVet on May 27, 2014 at 11:38 AM

Your sweeping generalizations are dumb and ridiculous. Some of the Hollywood crowd might fit with your description, but there are 38 millions people living in this state, to suggest that all of them act like some Hollywood nutjobs is stupid to say the least. To paraphrase you, if someone who talks this kind of nonsense such as yourself fell into the Pacific, Atlantic or whatever pond in your neck of the wood, I can guarantee you nobody would miss them.

jimver on May 27, 2014 at 12:37 PM

I did a search of all the news stories and found no reference to an attempt at committing Rodger. So what I heard and relayed was not correct.

Having said that, he posted 22 you tube videos and had his parents so alarmed they called the cops to investigate – a month ago -.

When one of his mental health care providers (of which there were several reports claim) called his parents about even MORE alarming videos and the manifesto, THEN they decided to get involved and raced to Santa Barbara. The reports claim.

His Aunt claims he was always a disturbed child.

So eeeeevvvvryyyoneee knew prince Elliot was a nut case. I still lay this at the feet of the “mental health care professionals” and his parents for not committing the little loon.

dogsoldier on May 27, 2014 at 12:41 PM

I don’t think one loses their gun cred bu simply acknowledging that there is indeed a different likely outcome with 30 vs. 10 round mags. The rationale argument could be ‘well I accept that risk and feel society should as well’ – but please don’t say there’s no difference.

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 12:07 PM

I’m not interested in posturing for gun creds. I guess you’ll have to show me in this case where a life was saved because 30 round mags weren’t used. He had plenty of time to switch. These things aren’t choreographed. These are handguns. They don’t use 30 rounders.

butch on May 27, 2014 at 12:37 PM

I was speaking generally. The amount of push-back on this point is just silly. See my reply above to GWB. A novice doesn’t reload quickly. But trigger pulling isn’t an issue.
Would have had less advantage with a single shot muzzleloader?
There IS a difference.
I’m not even sure why some feel so compelled to deny that there’s any advantage with 31 rounds and the same amt of trigger pulls.
What if he was decked out in Kevlar. Would that not have made a difference?
What if he was blind – would that not have made a difference?
I just don’t get the spin against a simple fact. What is risked by acknowledging it?

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 12:44 PM

So, what’s with Seth Rogen pic?

jimver on May 27, 2014 at 12:51 PM

I’m not interested in posturing for gun creds. I guess you’ll have to show me in this case where a life was saved because 30 round mags weren’t used. He had plenty of time to switch. These things aren’t choreographed. These are handguns. They don’t use 30 rounders.

butch on May 27, 2014 at 12:37 PM

There are 30 round magazines for handguns. There are 50 round magazines for handguns. Nobody I know uses them. They suck to load and the extra weight totally screws up your aim.

There’s also a psychological effect of having more ammo – people tend to take less careful aim. This effect is greater still when using automatic weapons.

ROCnPhilly on May 27, 2014 at 12:54 PM

Anyone can pull a trigger quickly – that just isn’t true for reloading.

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 12:37 PM

Just because you can’t do it doesn’t mean that loads of others can’t. No one was saved by this stupid restriction. You’re clinging……

Would have had less advantage with a single shot muzzleloader?

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 12:44 PM

Now, there’s the strawman that we have come to know and love – we aren’t talking the difference in loading antique weapons versus modern ones. We are talking the difference between an auto-loader having 10 rounds in it and a neatly packaged 10 ready to pop right in behind those first 10, or having all 20 (or 30 or 100 or whatever number you think is scary enough) in one package.

I just don’t get the spin against a simple fact. What is risked by acknowledging it?

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 12:44 PM

Because that “simple fact” has an entirely negligible impact on someone committing this sort of heinous act. In a shootout, it might make a difference, that second or fraction thereof. When walking around shooting unarmed sheep civilians, it makes not a whit of difference. What is risked by your acknowledging that fact?

GWB on May 27, 2014 at 1:01 PM

Another deluded WaPo writer. I’ll bet Eugene Robinson already has a column in the works that blames these murders on racism.

NOMOBO on May 27, 2014 at 1:11 PM

Murder all you want, if you’re stupid.

Schadenfreude on May 27, 2014 at 1:29 PM

Anyone can pull a trigger quickly – that just isn’t true for reloading.

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 12:37 PM

Just because you can’t do it doesn’t mean that loads of others can’t. No one was saved by this stupid restriction. You’re clinging……

GWB on May 27, 2014 at 1:01 PM

That’s as a good a line as you can muster?
If we’re not gonna even attempt an intellectually honest debate, than for sure we won’t have one.
Run with your fiction. I’m not gonna go blue in the fact over simple facts and logic.

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 1:35 PM

Verbal go search youtube for how quickly one can put in a new magazine. You’re truly ignorant…statist f u k.

CW on May 27, 2014 at 1:45 PM

Finally, brothers, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable — if anything is excellent or praiseworthy — think about such things.
- Phillipians 4:8

But when a Christian recommends this passage, she is shouted down as “trying to jam your morality down my throat”.

It is OK when Progressives demand their version of it though.

Reuben Hick on May 27, 2014 at 2:00 PM

I could only make it 1 minute 30 seconds into the losers last video. He doesn’t know why girls didn’t want to have sex with him? Maybe his spoiled little girlboi personna and the creepy ick that surrounded him might be a reason.. just sayin’.

44Magnum on May 27, 2014 at 2:08 PM

Verbal go search youtube for how quickly one can put in a new magazine. You’re truly ignorant…statist f u k.

CW on May 27, 2014 at 1:45 PM

You’re truly that stubborn.
Go search you tube for mules.

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 2:19 PM

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 1:35 PM

And nothing on the rest of the argument. Not surprising.

GWB on May 27, 2014 at 2:35 PM

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 1:35 PM

And nothing on the rest of the argument. Not surprising.

GWB on May 27, 2014 at 2:35 PM

I’m clear on my point.
I can’t keep making it over and over again.
You continue to insist that it doesn’t matter how many rounds can be fired before reloading.
I find that grossly illogical.
I know it’s wrong.

But as you insist there’s no difference, then I suppose you’re fine with the ban on high cap mags.
Heck, why not just make ‘em 3 rounds.
I mean the reloading time is ‘minimal’…right?
/

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 2:57 PM

But as you insist there’s no difference, then I suppose you’re fine with the ban on high cap mags.

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 2:57 PM

No, I’m not fine with it – because it infringes my Constitutional rights.

GWB on May 27, 2014 at 3:01 PM

The train has barely left the station and the public is just now understanding the ramifications of this bill.

There are many more parts of this bill that needs to be rolled out, at the discretion of the secretary of HHS. Federal medical workforce, federal clinics, doctors and support personal who’s education has been paid for by the federal government (in return for them working for the feds in health care clinics), multiple review boards who will guide the future of health care in the country.

I did read the bill, and there are bombs in there that can be released as the HHS sees fit. The “best” is yet to come.

Walter L. Newton on May 27, 2014 at 3:05 PM

Oops… above… wrong thread

Walter L. Newton on May 27, 2014 at 3:06 PM

Come over to the health care thread so I don’t feel so foolish posting the wrong comment in the wrong thread :)

Walter L. Newton on May 27, 2014 at 3:07 PM

I don’t think one loses their gun cred bu simply acknowledging that there is indeed a different likely outcome with 30 vs. 10 round mags. The rationale argument could be ‘well I accept that risk and feel society should as well’ – but please don’t say there’s no difference.
verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 12:07 PM

There would only be a difference if we’re talking 1 magazine per user in each scenario. There was more than 1 magazine in this scenario of reality.

anuts on May 27, 2014 at 3:10 PM

For instance, in Knocked Up and in The 40 Year Old Virgin, it’s the men who have to grow up, usually because of the influence of the women. Apatow films aren’t the same genre as Porky’s or The Sex Drive, or other adolescent coming-of-age films in that sense.

To miss that in order to lump Apatow in with an utterly forgettable and regrettable film like The Pick-Up Artist (forgettable and regrettable on entirely separate artistic grounds) shows just how desperate Hornaday was to find any reason to talk about an imbalance of power in Hollywood, rather than the Santa Barbara massacre in any meaningful and intelligent manner.

Have you actually seen the Pick-Up Artist? Doesn’t sound like it. First, it’s not the same genre as Porky’s. Second, it’s a helluva lot better film artistically, script-wise and as a movie in general than most of Apatow’s work (and I like his work). Molly Ringwald’s character is hardly objectified in the film and, as an aside, James Toback is a notorious Hollywood player and knew the material from experience.

Also – if we want to get right down to it, Jews run Hollywood. White Jews, but Jews nonetheless.

Also – what’s wrong with objectifying women in movies again?

King B on May 27, 2014 at 3:13 PM

But as you insist there’s no difference, then I suppose you’re fine with the ban on high cap mags.

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 2:57 PM

No, I’m not fine with it – because it infringes my Constitutional rights.

GWB on May 27, 2014 at 3:01 PM

No it doesn’t.
But you need to decide just what argument it is you’re making.

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 3:22 PM

I don’t think one loses their gun cred bu simply acknowledging that there is indeed a different likely outcome with 30 vs. 10 round mags. The rationale argument could be ‘well I accept that risk and feel society should as well’ – but please don’t say there’s no difference.
verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 12:07 PM

Nonsense. The Virginia Tech shooter had a 10 round semi-auto and an fanny pack full of loaded 10 round magazines. And he had the highest body count yet. Thus, by your “logic”, 10 round magazines are MORE dangerous.

tommyboy on May 27, 2014 at 3:26 PM

I don’t think one loses their gun cred bu simply acknowledging that there is indeed a different likely outcome with 30 vs. 10 round mags. The rationale argument could be ‘well I accept that risk and feel society should as well’ – but please don’t say there’s no difference.
verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 12:07 PM

Nonsense. The Virginia Tech shooter had a 10 round semi-auto and an fanny pack full of loaded 10 round magazines. And he had the highest body count yet. Thus, by your “logic”, 10 round magazines are MORE dangerous.

tommyboy on May 27, 2014 at 3:26 PM

What’s nonsense is you confusing a factor with the reason.
I suppose by your logic you could also say bullets are deadlier in VA than they are in CA.
V-Tech shooter used hollow points.
That’s what one would called another factor.

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 3:37 PM

This is a slick red herring. Now everyone involved in “Hunger Games” (which clearly influenced the killer) can plead the Seth Rogan defense.

Leftist media clearly know how to circle their wagons.

Terp Mole on May 27, 2014 at 3:46 PM

If one views ‘gun control’ as a way to help lessen risk and not as some confiscation conspiracy, then Cali’s gun laws worked as intended here.

No doubt many factor contributed to his motivation, but if one looks rationally at the act itself, he managed to kill 3 people and himself with his guns. People say ‘even in a state with stricter gun control this happens’. But among those controls is a ban on high capacity mags. Maxed out at 10 rounds…not 30+. One can not rationally look at that and not understand that as a result, less people were killed. Less people may have also been killed because he had bad aim. But if had 30/60 rounds to fire at a time without reloading or grabbing another weapon, that wouldn’t have mattered as much.

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 10:35 AM

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 10:41 AM

Has it been proven that the attacker stopped shooting at the ten round mark and that the pause allowed his next intended victim(s) to escape? If he was for some reason carrying no more ammo on his person, or if he was unable to reload, then you have a point to discuss. Otherwise, your argument is not supported by any fact.

Those of us who know guns know that the shooting experience is not static. Guns jam, moving targets are hard to hit, etc… While your arguments seem sound to you, they do not directly translate into real-life experiences.

A better argument is that the lock on the door protected more potential victims from harm.

ROCnPhilly on May 27, 2014 at 3:51 PM

What’s nonsense is you confusing a factor with the reason.

Says the man who just claimed the 10 round magazine (a factor) was the “reason” the California shooter didn’t have a higher body count.

I suppose by your logic you could also say bullets are deadlier in VA than they are in CA.
V-Tech shooter used hollow points.
verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 3:37 PM

So, hollow point bullets enabled the Va. Tech shooter to shoot more people than his predecessors? Dude, you’re embarrassing yourself.

tommyboy on May 27, 2014 at 3:59 PM

Like his Leftist dad’s teen-snuff “Hunger Games” remake of WWE’s “The Condemned”, I found the son’s Reality TV remake of Darth Vader’s meltdown scene to be both trite and derivative.

“You are animals, and I will slaughter you like animals… I hate all of you. Humanity is a disgusting, wretched, depraved species.”
[Rodger's video]

Terp Mole on May 27, 2014 at 3:59 PM

Those of us who know guns know that the shooting experience is not static. Guns jam, moving targets are hard to hit, etc… While your arguments seem sound to you, they do not directly translate into real-life experiences.

A better argument is that the lock on the door protected more potential victims from harm.

ROCnPhilly on May 27, 2014 at 3:51 PM

But that is exactly my argument.
I am not saying I know for a fact how things would have been different. I’m suggesting how they might have been.
Just as it’s logical to suggest a weaker lock on that door may have brought different results, it is logical to suggest higher cap mags might have as well.

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 4:07 PM

V-Tech shooter used hollow points.
verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 3:37 PM

So, hollow point bullets enabled the Va. Tech shooter to shoot more people than his predecessors? Dude, you’re embarrassing yourself.

tommyboy on May 27, 2014 at 3:59 PM

Sure, be a clown and make up that I’m saying that.
It’ll save you some thinking.

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 4:09 PM

This is just another round of the blame game. These phenomena in society can’t be pinned down to single individuals. Apatow and Rogen aren’t any more responsible for what formed their attitudes than Hornaday is. How many murders can she point to that were driven by Pick Up (or Hook Up) culture.

I wish people would quit trying to generalize and assign political blame for tragedies like this. Let’s leave the survivors alone to deal with their grief and quit trying to draw conclusions beyond the facts of the case.

flataffect on May 27, 2014 at 4:30 PM

But that is exactly my argument.
I am not saying I know for a fact how things would have been different. I’m suggesting how they might have been.
Just as it’s logical to suggest a weaker lock on that door may have brought different results, it is logical to suggest higher cap mags might have as well.
verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 4:07 PM

And what we’re trying to get you to understand is that even if you must support any more tyrannical tinkering with Amendment II at least premise your argument through experience and reality.

anuts on May 27, 2014 at 4:38 PM

A novice doesn’t reload quickly.

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 12:44 PM

Have you EVER in your life reloaded a magazine into a firearm?

blink on May 27, 2014 at 3:08 PM

Second request for an answer.

blink on May 27, 2014 at 4:21 PM

Didn’t see before.
Yes.
But not many times and far from expertly.

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 5:23 PM

You probably don’t understand the numbers involved here since you’re weak at math and science.

blink on May 27, 2014 at 4:23 PM

You seem to understand how to be a di*k for who knows what reason and for what purpose.
Try not being one all the time?

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 5:25 PM

Again, I’m sorry this fact is counterintuitive for you.

blink on May 27, 2014 at 4:25 PM

And again, being a di*k isn’t for you.

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 5:26 PM

I am not saying I know for a fact how things would have been different. I’m suggesting how they might have been.
Just as it’s logical to suggest a weaker lock on that door may have brought different results, it is logical to suggest higher cap mags might have as well.
verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 4:07 PM

And what we’re trying to get you to understand is that even if you must support any more tyrannical tinkering with Amendment II at least premise your argument through experience and reality.

anuts on May 27, 2014 at 4:38 PM\

You illustrate that many won’t allow reality to be any part of an Amendment II discussion, debate, or examination.
You fallback on ‘shall not be infringed’ and refuse to even consider the real intent and context of that phrase.

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 5:31 PM

But that is exactly my argument.
I am not saying I know for a fact how things would have been different. I’m suggesting how they might have been.
Just as it’s logical to suggest a weaker lock on that door may have brought different results, it is logical to suggest higher cap mags might have as well.

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 4:07 PM

Might. Or maybe, a 30 or 50 round magazine would have jammed on the third round as they are prone to do. Since he was an admitted weakling, he might have limp-wristed his gun with a higher cap mag, causing a malfunction, causing him to have to drop the Mag-O-Death after one round. He might have been unable to easily bring the gun to bear because of the weight. Bullets are heavy. Might, might, might…

I’m not willing say I believe the 10-round magazine limit had any effect at all in this case. And, for the record, I’m certainly not going to consider greater restrictions on legal gun ownership because a gun-grabber who would love to see all guns banned poses a weak hypothetical scenario chock full of “mights”.

ROCnPhilly on May 27, 2014 at 5:48 PM

You illustrate that many won’t allow reality to be any part of an Amendment II discussion, debate, or examination.
You fallback on ‘shall not be infringed’ and refuse to even consider the real intent and context of that phrase.
verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 5:31 PM

Do you believe there were more or less ‘infringements’ on Amendment II at the time of ratification than there are now?

anuts on May 27, 2014 at 5:54 PM

You illustrate that many won’t allow reality to be any part of an Amendment II discussion, debate, or examination.
You fallback on ‘shall not be infringed’ and refuse to even consider the real intent and context of that phrase.

verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 5:31 PM

Here’s the reality. You don’t get our guns. You want to try to take them? You volunteer to be part of the confiscation posse.

hawkdriver on May 27, 2014 at 7:31 PM

Anyway, verbaluce, my question was of course rhetorical as you know. 100% of all tinkering with Amendment II has been an infringement on it. We can either argue the merits of these infringements that they are warranted on the basis of moving society safer or we can continue more tinkering without actual discussion and examination from the tinkerers whose eventual end will be that of a supposed “gun free” society. I put gun free in quotes because we all know that is an impossible endeavor. All that will do is destruct a free society.

On the specific issue of magazine capacities, it would be nice if those in favor of capacity restriction could demonstrate any semblance of virtue in their argument that they do so from experience and just a slightly modicum of reality based premise that that would move towards a safer society.

At this point, all arguments for such tyranny have only come from fantasy. It defies math, reason, and experience to believe that a 1 magazine with 30 round capacity is any more “dangerous” than 3 magazines with 10 round capacity.

anuts on May 27, 2014 at 8:04 PM

At this point, all arguments for such tyranny have only come from fantasy. It defies math, reason, and experience to believe that a 1 magazine with 30 round capacity is any more “dangerous” than 3 magazines with 10 round capacity.

anuts on May 27, 2014 at 8:04 PM

In fact if we mandated thirty-round magazines for handguns we would make them nearly impossible to conceal.

slickwillie2001 on May 27, 2014 at 8:53 PM

What do you know about narcissistic personality disorder? Can you run down some of the personality traits? Does a person with narcissistic personality disorder have a keen ability to finesse his way, lie, cheat and act so delightful to those he considers beneath himself?

Why don’t you stop while you’re ahead?

Walter L. Newton on May 27, 2014 at 10:39 AM

A sane comment.

rlwo2008 on May 28, 2014 at 11:43 AM

This thing with Apatow and Rogen is so yesterday news :) The Feminazis on twitter blame it on …yes, you guessed, the ‘rape culture’ in America. Predictable, huh :)…Here’s the twitter hashtag #YesAllWomen in case you feel compell to contribute :), although I must warn you it’s not for the weak of heart :)… A guy was called ‘dog f…er’ by one of the tweeting ‘ladies’, simply for stating the obvious, that they are only seeking attention with this hashtag and that in that sense they are not any different than Rodgers.

jimver on May 28, 2014 at 2:44 PM

Just as it’s logical to suggest a weaker lock on that door may have brought different results, it is logical to suggest higher cap mags might have as well.
 
verbaluce on May 27, 2014 at 4:07 PM

 
Might. Or maybe, a 30 or 50 round magazine would have jammed on the third round as they are prone to do…
 
ROCnPhilly on May 27, 2014 at 5:48 PM

 
It really is bizarre to note that gun control supporters are advocating for mass murderers to only use reliable equipment during their shootings.

rogerb on May 28, 2014 at 7:07 PM

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