Hospitals hiking cost on the poor due to … ObamaCare

posted at 2:41 pm on May 27, 2014 by Ed Morrissey

There are multiple levels of irony in this New York Times report on the impact of ObamaCare on poor patients in the nation’s hospitals. Congress demanded the power to revamp the health-insurance industry and expand Medicaid in order to help the poor get better medical care for less money. In reality, the opposite appears to be happening, as hospitals attempt to force the poor into ObamaCare:

Hospital systems around the country have started scaling back financial assistance for lower- and middle-income people without health insurance, hoping to push them into signing up for coverage through the new online marketplaces created under the Affordable Care Act.

The trend is troubling to advocates for the uninsured, who say raising fees will inevitably cause some to skip care rather than buy insurance that they consider unaffordable. Though the number of hospitals tightening access to free or discounted care appears limited so far, many say they are considering doing so, and experts predict that stricter policies will become increasingly common.

Why did this unintended consequence occur? In part, because ObamaCare penalizes hospitals for extending charitable assistance:

Driving the new policies is the cost of charity care, which is partly covered by government but remains a burden for many hospitals. The new law also reduces federal aid to hospitals that treat large numbers of poor and uninsured people, creating an additional pressure on some to restrict charity care.

Got that? The law that supposedly answered the fierce urgency of now in assisting the poor penalizes providers for, er, assisting the poor. They want to force low-income patients to either enroll in an ObamaCare plan, or to accept Medicaid coverage — even though fewer and fewer providers will see patients with either coverage.

This sets up a damned-if-they-do conundrum for hospitals, which have been the front line of caring for the poor:

“Do we allow our charity care programs to kick in if people are unwilling to sign up?” said Nancy M. Schlichting, chief executive of the Henry Ford Health System in Detroit. “Our inclination is to say we will not, because it just seems that that defeats the purpose of what the Affordable Care Act has put in place.”

But advocates for the uninsured point out that many Americans avoided obtaining coverage in the inaugural enrollment period of the Affordable Care Act this year because they found the plans too expensive, even with subsidies. Many uninsured people also remain unaware of the new insurance options, And immigrants who are in the country illegally are not even eligible to apply.

Most hospitals are not reducing charitable service to those who fall under the federal poverty level, the NYT’s Abby Goodnough reports. It’s a different story, though, for those who earn between 200-400% of the federal poverty level, where Medicaid eligibility ends and the mandate requires everyone to buy coverage and accept subsidies. Thanks to the new federal restrictions on charity, hospitals have to focus their efforts on the neediest patients — and everyone else gets stuck with the bill.

These are the kinds of things that one might have foreseen had Congress not been in such a rush to pass a bill without carefully reading through its language. On that point, CNS News and the Daily Surge note a moment of supreme irony last week in the debate over how to fix the VA:

“We have not held a hearing on this legislation. And some of us are old-fashioned enough to know that maybe folks in the Senate might want to know what is in the bill before we voted on it.”

Nope, those aren’t the words of a Republican shaming the Democrats during the Obamacare debate–it’s none other than Bernie Sanders! Taken from the Senate floor just a couple of days ago, the “Independent” senator from Vermont is suddenly urging caution when it comes to passing bills. Why? Well, it was barely two two weeks ago that we told you Bernie has been quivering in his Socialist boots over the VA scandal. As Chairman of the Veterans Affairs Committee, the effects of a probe into the misconduct at VA hospitals has a good chance of showering a pot full of slop onto him personally, and in a tense midterm election year, he obviously does NOT want to be associated with this scandal on any level.


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Comment pages: 1 2

It’s by design.

Bigbullets on May 27, 2014 at 2:43 PM

And the sky is blue today!

22044 on May 27, 2014 at 2:45 PM

Free healthcare you reichwingers!

Its freeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!

Murphy9 on May 27, 2014 at 2:45 PM

“Congress demanded the power to revamp the health-insurance industry and expand Medicaid in order to help the poor…”
.
That was just the talking point that resonated most with the public. Liberals wanted the federal gov’t to take over the health care industry. In this they succeeded. No need for ABC/CBS/NBC to put the spotlight on such old talking points.

higgins1991 on May 27, 2014 at 2:46 PM

What’s that I hear?????

Embrace the suck!!!!!

Electrongod on May 27, 2014 at 2:46 PM

I don’t see any irony here. Just a tragedy that has been slowly and inevitably unfolding ever since Pelosi’s gavel walk.

ElectricPhase on May 27, 2014 at 2:48 PM

Where’s our resident Koch-head to tell us how this is the fault of conservatives?

Washington Nearsider on May 27, 2014 at 2:49 PM

It’s by design.

Bigbullets on May 27, 2014 at 2:43 PM

Of course it is.

“Progressives” have always hated the poorer classes. If some poor people die or lose their healthcare “That’s just progress.”

tetriskid on May 27, 2014 at 2:53 PM

Omg. This train wreck is skidding on a frictionless surface to the precipice of infinity.

SparkPlug on May 27, 2014 at 2:54 PM

Omg. This train wreck is skidding on a frictionless surface to the precipice of infinity.

SparkPlug on May 27, 2014 at 2:54 PM

Too bad no one saw this coming.

Bigbullets on May 27, 2014 at 2:56 PM

Where’s our resident Koch-head to tell us how this is the fault of conservatives?

Washington Nearsider on May 27, 2014 at 2:49 PM

He definitely generates a response.

Although, I’m not sure why that is.

Bigbullets on May 27, 2014 at 2:57 PM

ObamaCare the cure is worse than the disease.

SparkPlug on May 27, 2014 at 2:58 PM

He definitely generates a response.

Although, I’m not sure why that is.

Bigbullets on May 27, 2014 at 2:57 PM

Generally best to ignore him.

22044 on May 27, 2014 at 2:58 PM

The Obamacare that ate poor people.

22044 on May 27, 2014 at 2:59 PM


It’s by design.

Bigbullets on May 27, 2014 at 2:43 PM

This. Everything that is happening to our country is – By. Design. Understand it. Embrace it. Start fighting it.

HomeoftheBrave on May 27, 2014 at 3:00 PM

Think I’ll take a drive past Claude Rains’ grave later…

Del Dolemonte on May 27, 2014 at 3:05 PM

The train has barely left the station and the public is just now understanding the ramifications of this bill.

There are many more parts of this bill that needs to be rolled out, at the discretion of the secretary of HHS. Federal medical workforce, federal clinics, doctors and support personal who’s education has been paid for by the federal government (in return for them working for the feds in health care clinics), multiple review boards who will guide the future of health care in the country.

I did read the bill, and there are bombs in there that can be released as the HHS sees fit. The “best” is yet to come.

Walter L. Newton on May 27, 2014 at 3:06 PM

I don’t see any irony here. Just a tragedy that has been slowly and inevitably unfolding ever since Pelosi’s gavel walk.

ElectricPhase on May 27, 2014 at 2:48 PM

This.

INC on May 27, 2014 at 3:06 PM

Oh dear, wait until obama reads about this in the paper. He is going to be so very angry.

HumpBot Salvation on May 27, 2014 at 3:08 PM

Nothing is free. The more force liberals use, the less charity and help for the poor. Fools.

Whitey Ford on May 27, 2014 at 3:08 PM

It’s a feature not a bug that the PPACA eliminates programs to help the uninsured while offering the uninsured a way to become insured so as to reduce the freeloader problem.

That you are reaching this far to find something to criticize about he law suggests it must be working pretty darn well.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:08 PM

Aye carumba

cmsinaz on May 27, 2014 at 3:11 PM

this is going to hurt many.
I had to utilize this type of setup once between jobs, forget exactly what it was but had ER visit that was around 1500 or so.
so I setup a payment schedule to pay it off.
I had about 500 left when the local nuns charity finished it for me, so I tried to do right by them and spent some time helping at area food bank.
course when I was there thy fed me more than I felt I was worth so had to figure out way to take care of that LOL
so helped fix some vehicles for them.
but I digress, we are going to see much more of this soon I fear. and with our super conservative gop you can pretty much bet deathcare is here to stay I fear.

dmacleo on May 27, 2014 at 3:11 PM

Pay more, get less. Happens every time you have government intervention.

rickv404 on May 27, 2014 at 3:12 PM

It’s a feature not a bug that the PPACA eliminates programs to help the uninsured while offering the uninsured a way to become insured so as to reduce the freeloader problem.

That you are reaching this far to find something to criticize about he law suggests it must be working pretty darn well.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:08 PM

So why do Americans hate it?

Chuck Schick on May 27, 2014 at 3:12 PM

It’s a feature not a bug that the PPACA eliminates programs to help the uninsured while offering the uninsured a way to become insured so as to reduce the freeloader problem.

That you are reaching this far to find something to criticize about he law suggests it must be working pretty darn well.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:08 PM

LOL, you might actually read the article before you make a complete and utter ignorant azzhole out of yourself.

HumpBot Salvation on May 27, 2014 at 3:13 PM

More evidence pointing to the undeniable fact that obama hates the poor and middle-class.

HumpBot Salvation on May 27, 2014 at 3:14 PM

From the article

But advocates for the uninsured point out that many Americans avoided obtaining coverage in the inaugural enrollment period of the Affordable Care Act this year because they found the plans too expensive, even with subsidies.

Chuck Schick on May 27, 2014 at 3:15 PM

I did read the bill, and there are bombs in there that can be released as the HHS sees fit. The “best” is yet to come.

Walter L. Newton on May 27, 2014 at 3:06 PM

this.
just like with the dodd frank/consumer protection bill there are FAR too many placeholder sections that are to be determined by the Secretary. IOW placeholders for that person to create laws as desired.
I don’t have a huge problem with statements like that used to tell HOW an existing (in the bill) rule to be implemented byt these 2 over reaches basically were set to allow new law creation.

dmacleo on May 27, 2014 at 3:16 PM

It’s a feature not a bug that the PPACA eliminates programs to help the uninsured while offering the uninsured a way to become insured so as to reduce the freeloader problem.

That you are reaching this far to find something to criticize about he law suggests it must be working pretty darn well.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:08 PM

PPACA…..

What about the insured…or was insured?
Some protection they got…huh..
And it’s not over….

Electrongod on May 27, 2014 at 3:17 PM

Big hospital and those greedy doctors are responsible for this or…KOCH! /

Decoski on May 27, 2014 at 3:17 PM

The trend is troubling to advocates for the uninsured, who say raising fees will inevitably cause some to skip care rather than buy insurance that they consider unaffordable.

Why are there still advocates for the “uninsured”? They don’t exist anymore remember? Obamacare was going to take care of all of that and make them get insurance, and had the added benefit of lowering costs across the board.

Why it’s almost as if we have been lied to repeatedly. Hmmmmm……

Johnnyreb on May 27, 2014 at 3:18 PM

LOL, you might actually read the article before you make a complete and utter ignorant azzhole out of yourself.

HumpBot Salvation on May 27, 2014 at 3:13 PM

I can’t help but note you couldn’t actually refute what I said…

maybe you should read this article:
Safety Net Hospitals Already Seeing More Paying Patients — And Revenue

same issue, flip side. Yes hospitals are cutting back on subsidies to the uninsured but they should as that encourages people to get insurance through the ACA.

I think what really worries you is that the main group of people being hurt here are those who didn’t get medicaid subsidies due to GOP obstruction. If those people realize republicans are responsible for preventing them getting care then a number of southern states are going to turn purple at east short term.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:18 PM

I think this sort of thing may hit vets too, many (depending on service connected rating) get some non disability free care. these count as obamacare compliant even though they don’t cover everything and the 200-400% ratio will really hit them.

dmacleo on May 27, 2014 at 3:19 PM

this.
just like with the dodd frank/consumer protection bill there are FAR too many placeholder sections that are to be determined by the Secretary. IOW placeholders for that person to create laws as desired.
I don’t have a huge problem with statements like that used to tell HOW an existing (in the bill) rule to be implemented byt these 2 over reaches basically were set to allow new law creation.

dmacleo on May 27, 2014 at 3:16 PM

And what I read were not placeholders, they were fully detailed sections of the law, already spelled out and awaiting the secretary when he/she saw fit to implement.

Walter L. Newton on May 27, 2014 at 3:19 PM

The story picture of the doctor with his head in his hands is a stunningly perfect representation of how no doubt the majority of physicians (and patients) feel about socialized medicine — Obamacare is its cursed name, and Barack Obama is the cursed person foisting this boondoggle on the nation. Geez this all makes me so angry, how our medical care system is being wrecked by that egotist in the White House.

otlset on May 27, 2014 at 3:21 PM

I think what really worries you is that the main group of people being hurt here are those who didn’t get medicaid subsidies due to GOP obstruction. If those people realize republicans are responsible for preventing them getting care then a number of southern states are going to turn purple at east short term.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:18 PM

Medicaid is not insurance and the program is broke.

If you bothered to keep up on reality and not wallow in your sycophantic partisan ignorance you’d know your party is due for an epic ass kicking in November due to this incompetent mess.

Chuck Schick on May 27, 2014 at 3:22 PM

Redistribution of wealth…

albill on May 27, 2014 at 3:22 PM

The story picture of the doctor with his head in his hands is a stunningly perfect representation of how no doubt the majority of physicians (and patients) feel about socialized medicine —

otlset on May 27, 2014 at 3:21 PM

You obviously don’t know many doctors.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:23 PM

If you bothered to keep up on reality and not wallow in your sycophantic partisan ignorance you’d know your party is due for an epic ass kicking in November due to this incompetent mess.

Chuck Schick on May 27, 2014 at 3:22 PM

Actually polling on the PPACA has been trending up for the last few months. If the right has a good year, and they very well might, it will be due to non-presidential year drop off in those demographics that favor the left, combined with the heavily democratic tilt of the 2008 senate class up for re-election.

Sorry to intrude with facts on your fantasy.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:25 PM

I think what really worries you is that the main group of people being hurt here are those who didn’t get medicaid subsidies due to GOP obstruction. If those people realize republicans are responsible for preventing them getting care then a number of southern states are going to turn purple at east short term.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:18 PM

Sorry, GOP obstruction did not in anyway affect this bill. and southern State turning Democrat is what we in the South call wish casting.

Johnnyreb on May 27, 2014 at 3:26 PM

You obviously don’t know many doctors.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:23 PM

I see the personal attack, but somehow the post seems to have lost your entire critique of what the other person said. You did say something meaningful right? I mean, the personal attack does not harm his statement at all. Or are you just drive by stupiding?

astonerii on May 27, 2014 at 3:26 PM

Medicaid is not insurance and the program is broke.

Chuck Schick on May 27, 2014 at 3:22 PM

Golly gee, and here I thought Medicaid was insurance.

The Health Insurance Association of America describes Medicaid as a “government insurance program for persons of all ages whose income and resources are insufficient to pay for health care.” (America’s Health Insurance Plans (HIAA), pg. 232).

Apparently I’m not the only one.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:28 PM

Actually polling on the PPACA has been trending up for the last few months. If the right has a good year, and they very well might, it will be due to non-presidential year drop off in those demographics that favor the left, combined with the heavily democratic tilt of the 2008 senate class up for re-election.

Sorry to intrude with facts on your fantasy.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:25 PM

RCP

Majority disapproval – barely changed.

But keep lying, someone’s bound to buy it.

Chuck Schick on May 27, 2014 at 3:28 PM

That you are reaching this far to find something to criticize about he law suggests it must be working pretty darn well.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:08 PM

Yep, Ed had to dig pretty deeply to find this obscure article on the NY Times.

You know what else suggests that it’s working pretty darn well? The fact that supporters have to keep smugly reminding us that it’s working so darn well.

Great successes usually speak for themselves, but, I suppose ObamaCare’s such a great success that it shouldn’t have to.

BlueCollarAstronaut on May 27, 2014 at 3:29 PM

obamacare brings utopia to you, or else!

Murphy9 on May 27, 2014 at 3:29 PM

I know and work with many physicians. All of them, past and present, hate the very idea of government intrusion into their practice of medicine — socialized medicine. Obamacare is wrecking our healthcare delivery system.

otlset on May 27, 2014 at 3:30 PM

I can’t help but note you couldn’t actually refute what I said…

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:18 PM

The article above this comment section refuted what you said. Idiot.

I think what really worries you is that the main group of people being hurt here are those who didn’t get medicaid subsidies due to GOP obstruction. If those people realize republicans are responsible for preventing them getting care then a number of southern states are going to turn purple at east short term.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:18 PM

ROFLMAO…you truly are a fukking moron. LOL.

HumpBot Salvation on May 27, 2014 at 3:30 PM

I see the personal attack, but somehow the post seems to have lost your entire critique of what the other person said. You did say something meaningful right? I mean, the personal attack does not harm his statement at all. Or are you just drive by stupiding?

astonerii on May 27, 2014 at 3:26 PM

What personal attack are you talking about? The person said they thought doctors were upset by the ACA making medicine socialized. From knowing a lot of doctors (almost my entire family is involved in medicine in one way or another) I can tell you that the vast majority of them are just fine with more patients getting health care, a reduction of the freeloader problem, and subsidies for the poor.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:31 PM

Golly gee, and here I thought Medicaid was insurance.

The Health Insurance Association of America describes Medicaid as a “government insurance program for persons of all ages whose income and resources are insufficient to pay for health care.” (America’s Health Insurance Plans (HIAA), pg. 232).

Apparently I’m not the only one.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:28 PM

Try to see a doctor on Medicaid vs commercial insurance and let me know how you do. I have relatives on Medicaid. They just use the emergency room, which is a widespread problem.

Equating Medicaid with insurance is delusional.

Chuck Schick on May 27, 2014 at 3:31 PM

You obviously don’t know many doctors.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:23 PM

Again, thanks for laughs. It’s obvious from your comments you don’t know shit.

HumpBot Salvation on May 27, 2014 at 3:32 PM

RCP

Majority disapproval – barely changed.

But keep lying, someone’s bound to buy it.

Chuck Schick on May 27, 2014 at 3:28 PM

Did you actually look at that chart?

around january it had a low of -15.2 favorability. Since then the number has moved 5 points in the positive direction to be around -10 now. Which is exactly what I said.

Don’t blame you inability to read on me.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:33 PM

Equating Medicaid with insurance is delusional.

Chuck Schick on May 27, 2014 at 3:31 PM

It’s a good thing you are here since you know more about health insurance than the Health Insurance Association of America!

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:35 PM

The new law also reduces federal aid to hospitals that treat large numbers of poor and uninsured people, creating an additional pressure on some to restrict charity care.

That’s because DHHS decided to follow through with the cuts to DSH reimbursements, even though they knew in advance that there could be human costs.

Part of the goal here is to have healthcare systems in states that did not expand Medicaid become defacto enrollment agents for Medicaid services in the hopes that as enrollment increases this will put pressure on the state to comply with expansion of Medicaid.

For a state such as my own (NC), we did not choose to expand Medicaid. There is a fairly good spirit of co-operation between physicians and Medicaid in my state, and the docs here get reimbursements approximately 2X greater than that of a state like CA. But we had some major issues with Medicaid fraud that the state has been trying to address. And if we expanded Medicaid, it would probably mean reducing reimbursements rates, which would cause physicians to drop Medicaid patients, which would send more patients to the ER, which would increase system costs….

This leaves states with really limited options, one of which is attempting to implement public health policies at the state level that could help reduce some of the problems caused by Obamacare.

The only person on the Repub side that I’ve seen who seems to acknowledge the situation with DSH and public health is Bobby Jindal. He included it in his recent health care plan.

lineholder on May 27, 2014 at 3:35 PM

I know and work with many physicians. All of them, past and present, hate the very idea of government intrusion into their practice of medicine — socialized medicine. Obamacare is wrecking our healthcare delivery system.

otlset on May 27, 2014 at 3:30 PM

My experience is exactly the opposite. Maybe it’s a function of our geographic localities but every doctor I know is very in favor of health care reform, and while they are not all thrilled with how the ACA does it they are happy to at last be taking some steps in the right direction.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:36 PM

Did you actually look at that chart?

around january it had a low of -15.2 favorability. Since then the number has moved 5 points in the positive direction to be around -10 now. Which is exactly what I said.

Don’t blame you inability to read on me.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:33 PM

If you can argue from that chart and say ObamaCare has made any significant improvement in it’s popularity, you’re pretty darn desperate.

Chuck Schick on May 27, 2014 at 3:37 PM

It’s easy to understand the confusion.

Some people just forget the rule of thumb: whenever a Democratic bill in Congress carries a high-minded name, its effects will be the exact opposite of what the name implies.

So when Democrats forced through the “Affordable Care and Patient Protection Act,” it was ordained that it would lead to less care, more expensive care, and patients would be the victims.

Remember the real name of the stimulus bill? “American Recovery and Reinvestment Act,” which meant that recovery and reinvestment in America was delayed and made more difficult by it (it was mainly a payoff to cronies).

Get it? It’s simple once you know the secret!

Adjoran on May 27, 2014 at 3:37 PM

That you are reaching this far to find something to criticize about he law suggests it must be working pretty darn well.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:08 PM

Let’s see how many of these questions you can get right?

1) How many needy, health insurance lacking Americans were supposed to be helped by this law?

2) How much was the average family going to save in premiums a year?

3) How many people got to keep their doctors, their medical network and their specialists?

I’ll start with these three to make it easy for you.

Walter L. Newton on May 27, 2014 at 3:38 PM

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:36 PM

Where are you at? Seriously, in my area of the country, docs are struggling with the changes in payer mix and the demands placed on them by the law that are driving up operating costs.

They aren’t happy with it at all.

lineholder on May 27, 2014 at 3:39 PM

It’s a good thing you are here since you know more about health insurance than the Health Insurance Association of America!

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:35 PM

Show me where they say the reimbursement rates, unnecessary ER usage and patent outcomes are exactly the same between Medicare and commercial insurance.

Chuck Schick on May 27, 2014 at 3:39 PM

It’s a different story, though, for those who earn between 200-400% of the federal poverty level

Umm…unless they have some crazy illness that racks up hundreds of thousands of dollars…why does someone making 400% the poverty level need assistance? Shouldn’t they already have insurance? That’s not charity, that’s covering from someone’s stupidity.

nextgen_repub on May 27, 2014 at 3:42 PM

If you can argue from that chart and say ObamaCare has made any significant improvement in it’s popularity, you’re pretty darn desperate.

Chuck Schick on May 27, 2014 at 3:37 PM

You don’t think a +5% improvement over a few months is significant? Seems like it to me.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:42 PM

Where are you at? Seriously, in my area of the country, docs are struggling with the changes in payer mix and the demands placed on them by the law that are driving up operating costs.

They aren’t happy with it at all.

lineholder on May 27, 2014 at 3:39 PM

Oregon.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:43 PM

Although I have family in California as well.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:43 PM

Show me where they say the reimbursement rates, unnecessary ER usage and patent outcomes are exactly the same between Medicare and commercial insurance.

Chuck Schick on May 27, 2014 at 3:39 PM

Show me where I said I’d let you dictate the terms of the argument? Look the HIAA sys medicaid is insurance. You say it isn’t. I know which of you two I am more likely to believe.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:45 PM

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:43 PM

Okay. That explains a lot. What’s the going rate for Medicaid reimbursements in your state? Have any idea?

lineholder on May 27, 2014 at 3:45 PM

You don’t think a +5% improvement over a few months is significant? Seems like it to me.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:42 PM

The Pew Research Center poll shows disapproval of the law hitting a new high of 55 percent. It comes on the heels of several polls last week that showed the law had very little — if any — bump after sign-ups on the health-care exchanges exceeded goals.

The previous high for disapproval of the law was 54 percent in Pew polling. That was at the height of the implementation problems in December.

Forty-three percent of Americans disapprove of the law “strongly” — also a record high. Forty-one percent of Americans currently approve of the law. That’s higher than the record low, 37 percent.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/05/05/poll-obamacare-hits-new-low/

HumpBot Salvation on May 27, 2014 at 3:45 PM

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:36 PM

Where are you at? Seriously, in my area of the country, docs are struggling with the changes in payer mix and the demands placed on them by the law that are driving up operating costs.

They aren’t happy with it at all.

lineholder on May 27, 2014 at 3:39 PM

I have the impression Tlaloc is one of those posters who will never admit to being wrong, or that anyone who disagrees with him(?) has a valid point.

non-nonpartisan on May 27, 2014 at 3:45 PM

My mother has been sick since Easter – unexplained fever and malaise, severe joint pains, overall just feeling horrible..

She’s been turned away from the emergency room and not admitted TWICE in the past 6 weeks. The E/R physicians are overloaded, overworked and the E/R waiting room is butts to bellies full. It is disgusting. Something we might see in a bad movie from Cuba.

She’s been loaded up with pills and sent home with no explanation, no diagnosis, no plan of action and no follow up care.

Thankfully, our family doctor takes cash. He used to take Medicare but since Obamacare came about, he’s advised that it is too bureaucratic, too cumbersome and just too unreasonable for him to meet his patients’ i.e., my family’s needs.

FUBO. My folks are on Medicare but we’re self pay now you idiot sumbitch.

Key West Reader on May 27, 2014 at 3:45 PM

Umm…unless they have some crazy illness that racks up hundreds of thousands of dollars…why does someone making 400% the poverty level need assistance? Shouldn’t they already have insurance? That’s not charity, that’s covering from someone’s stupidity.

nextgen_repub on May 27, 2014 at 3:42 PM

400% is still only ~$46,000 and remember this is family income, not personal. And that goes up to families of 8.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:47 PM

and while they are not all thrilled with how the ACA does it they are happy to at last be taking some steps in the right direction.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:36 PM

Increasing big-government’s control over the practice of medicine characterized by inefficiency, delays, shortages, rationing, wait-wait-wait times, etc. reduces the quality of care drastically. I give you the VA as an example of big government’s inevitable failure to adequately deliver quality healthcare without the problems above (or corruption too).

otlset on May 27, 2014 at 3:47 PM

You don’t think a +5% improvement over a few months is significant? Seems like it to me.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:42 PM

Not in the least.

Look back the past year – completely normal fluctuation. Both lines are about average. -15 to -11.4 is margin of error stuff.

ObamaCare is still unpopular.

Chuck Schick on May 27, 2014 at 3:48 PM

Okay. That explains a lot. What’s the going rate for Medicaid reimbursements in your state? Have any idea?

lineholder on May 27, 2014 at 3:45 PM

off the top of my head, nope.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:49 PM

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:47 PM

And depending on where they are, cost of living could up most of that income very quickly.

lineholder on May 27, 2014 at 3:49 PM

Show me where I said I’d let you dictate the terms of the argument? Look the HIAA sys medicaid is insurance. You say it isn’t. I know which of you two I am more likely to believe.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:45 PM

Medicaid is not the same as insurance. It has much lower reimbursement rates.

This is a fact.

Chuck Schick on May 27, 2014 at 3:49 PM

I have the impression Tlaloc is one of those posters who will never admit to being wrong, or that anyone who disagrees with him(?) has a valid point.

non-nonpartisan on May 27, 2014 at 3:45 PM

easy to test, just come up with a valid point and see.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:50 PM

You can no longer get into Emergency Rooms. They are packed butts to bellies. If this sounds racist, I really don’t give a damn. One family member gets sick and the entire family comes, taking up space in the waiting room, starting “chants”.. OBAMA CARE OBAMA CARE OBAMA CARE.

It is not just disturbing, it’s frightening. Like being in a room with a bunch of SEIU goons or something.

My mother has been denied care. We’re going self pay. Even though my last post was deleted, I don’t care. I’m going to shout from the roof tops that these hospitals are overwhelmed with these huge bunches of people who just sit and stand and chant:

Obama Care Obama Care Obama Care

FUBO

Key West Reader on May 27, 2014 at 3:51 PM

easy to test, just come up with a valid point and see.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:50 PM

Your grammar is sloppy.

otlset on May 27, 2014 at 3:51 PM

What hospital will start turning away illegal immigrants first? I don’t see that happening. Again, illegals getting better treatment than citizens.
Europe just had an election and immigrants were the big subject. It’s time for the poor to see the amount of money taken from them and given to “future Democratic voters”. It’ time the black population realize that they are being taken advantage of and their lot in life will never get better under the Democratic platform. They take their votes for granted.

djaymick on May 27, 2014 at 3:52 PM

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:49 PM

Do you know how provider payer mix ratios work? If not, do you want to know?

lineholder on May 27, 2014 at 3:53 PM

Okay. That explains a lot. What’s the going rate for Medicaid reimbursements in your state? Have any idea?

lineholder on May 27, 2014 at 3:45 PM

70% in CA. Medicare is about 90%

Chuck Schick on May 27, 2014 at 3:53 PM

easy to test, just come up with a valid point and see.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:50 PM

Like I should trust your judgement? lol I’ve already seen you in action, and you’re not an honest debater. Just like your preezy isn’t.

If you want me to consider changing my mind, give me an example of a blatant lie or false promise you’ve seen Obama make.

non-nonpartisan on May 27, 2014 at 3:54 PM

Not in the least.

Look back the past year – completely normal fluctuation. Both lines are about average. -15 to -11.4 is margin of error stuff.

I’m sorry but you’re flat wrong. There’s a clear trend over the last several months in the positive direction. The jump mid january? That’s short term fluctuation that quickly reverted to the local mean of -15.

ObamaCare is still unpopular.

Chuck Schick on May 27, 2014 at 3:48 PM

Yes the program is still more unpopular than popular but my point was that it is getting more popular, and if you look at voting patterns people don’t vote against things because they are unpopular they vote against them because they are getting more unpopular. In other words its the relative change and not the absolute value that tends to drive voter patterns.

You see this in the economy for example. A negative view of the state of the economy but with a belief that it is getting better is better for an incumbent than a positive view of the economy with a belief that it is getting worse.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:54 PM

Chuck Schick on May 27, 2014 at 3:53 PM

Source please. Last time I checked Kaiser’s data (and granted that’s been a few months), the state of CA was running at .4 (40%) reimbursement on the dollar of services charged to Medicaid providers in the state.

lineholder on May 27, 2014 at 3:56 PM

If I were as racist and hated the poor as much as leftists say I do, I would be a democrat.

jukin3 on May 27, 2014 at 3:56 PM

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:54 PM

No, ObamaCare is not getting more popular in any significant way. Margin of error fluctuations mean nothing.

Chuck Schick on May 27, 2014 at 3:56 PM

djaymick on May 27, 2014 at 3:52 PM

Hospitals cannot turn away emergency cases.

Ronald Reagan signed that into law. It is and was a good law. But this sense of entitlement, this sense of intimidation, this sense of “me first” from welfare recipients has to stop.

People with the sniffles are flooding emergency rooms demanding care on the spot while my mother sits in a wheel chair, unable to breathe, with symptoms of a heart attack and the “chanters” go to the front of the line.

Please, leave the Senior Citizens out of this fight. Please. They don’t deserve this.

Key West Reader on May 27, 2014 at 3:57 PM

Do you know how provider payer mix ratios work? If not, do you want to know?

lineholder on May 27, 2014 at 3:53 PM

I don’t think there’s much to understand, seems like it’s just the combination of revenue streams used to pay for a given medical service. I.e. my insurance pays x%, government subsidy pays y%, and I cover z%.

Maybe I’m missing something there but seems quite straightforward.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:58 PM

No, ObamaCare is not getting more popular in any significant way. Margin of error fluctuations mean nothing.

Chuck Schick on May 27, 2014 at 3:56 PM

How is President Romney, anyway?

That’s a less than subtle hint that you might want to stop poo-pooing polls just because they don’t say what you want them to say.

Look put the poll data in any stats package you want and analyze the data from january on. I guarantee you’ll find a nice positive correlation between date and favorability.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 4:02 PM

According to this, Obamacare had a positive popularity on March 31, so I would think the fact that it’s now polling at -10% would speak quite poorly for it.

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/03/31/popularity-obamacare-hits-all-time-high-latest-abcwashington-post-poll.html

BlueCollarAstronaut on May 27, 2014 at 4:02 PM

Oregon.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:43 PM

Yep, medicaid expansion has really helped the health of those in Oregon.

http://mediatrackers.org/ohio/2013/05/09/oregon-study-another-medicaid-expansion-red-flag

Some Oregon data for ya.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Study-finds-Medicaid-expansion-drove-up-ER-visits-238552111.html

HumpBot Salvation on May 27, 2014 at 4:02 PM

Chuck Schick on May 27, 2014 at 3:53 PM

Chuck, with all due respect – the Medicare reimbursement is 40% and the Medicaid reimbursement is 26%. That’s why nobody takes Obamacare.

Would you sacrifice 8-10 years of your life to become a doctor, to get paid 26% of what you are worth? No.

Just leave the Senior Citizens out of this, and pass a law that is very clear – SEIU and staged patients are NOT ALLOWED in America’s Emergency rooms. No more chanting, no more raiding the food machines, no more marches down the hallways demanding free care and free food.

This is literally a travesty, a shame and the people who participate in this behavior should be shamed publicly. Leave America’s Seniors and Children alone. Shut your mouths with your chants. People go to emergency rooms because they are truly sick.

I am truly sickened by what has become of our health care system.

Key West Reader on May 27, 2014 at 4:02 PM

I.e. my insurance pays x%, government subsidy pays y%, and I cover z%.

Maybe I’m missing something there but seems quite straightforward.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:58 PM

You are. Y% = American taxpayer.

Walter L. Newton on May 27, 2014 at 4:03 PM

Chuck Schick on May 27, 2014 at 3:53 PM

Okay, according to this, your numbers are correct. They’ve changed something in their metrics somehow since I looked at it last.

Compare NC to CA. See the difference? In the old format it read NC = .74, CA = .4 (which is not far off from the proportion they have displayed in this chart)

lineholder on May 27, 2014 at 4:03 PM

According to this, Obamacare had a positive popularity on March 31, so I would think the fact that it’s now polling at -10% would speak quite poorly for it.

http://www.politicususa.com/2014/03/31/popularity-obamacare-hits-all-time-high-latest-abcwashington-post-poll.html

BlueCollarAstronaut on May 27, 2014 at 4:02 PM

Don’t put too much faith in any one poll. Instead look at the aggregation of polls. That way you aren’t led astray by outliers.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 4:04 PM

Oregon.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:43 PM

Um, wow.

So how’s that exchange website going out there?

/s

cs89 on May 27, 2014 at 4:06 PM

It’s a feature not a bug that the PPACA eliminates programs to help the uninsured while offering the uninsured a way to become insured so as to reduce the freeloader problem.

That you are reaching this far to find something to criticize about he law suggests it must be working pretty darn well.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 3:08 PM

LOL

Lack of awareness on a cosmic level.

Midas on May 27, 2014 at 4:06 PM

That’s a less than subtle hint that you might want to stop poo-pooing polls just because they don’t say what you want them to say.

Look put the poll data in any stats package you want and analyze the data from january on. I guarantee you’ll find a nice positive correlation between date and favorability.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 4:02 PM

Keep flailing.

The Pew Research Center poll shows disapproval of the law hitting a new high of 55 percent. It comes on the heels of several polls last week that showed the law had very little — if any — bump after sign-ups on the health-care exchanges exceeded goals.

The previous high for disapproval of the law was 54 percent in Pew polling. That was at the height of the implementation problems in December.

Forty-three percent of Americans disapprove of the law “strongly” — also a record high. Forty-one percent of Americans currently approve of the law. That’s higher than the record low, 37 percent.

HumpBot Salvation on May 27, 2014 at 4:06 PM

Yep, medicaid expansion has really helped the health of those in Oregon.

http://mediatrackers.org/ohio/2013/05/09/oregon-study-another-medicaid-expansion-red-flag

Some Oregon data for ya.

http://www.katu.com/news/local/Study-finds-Medicaid-expansion-drove-up-ER-visits-238552111.html

HumpBot Salvation on May 27, 2014 at 4:02 PM

Yes but there are indiciations that the results of that study may have been a fluke. Studies of Romneycare in Mass. Have found ER visits declining in the years after.

One example

The evidence is muddled currently. We’ll have to see.

Tlaloc on May 27, 2014 at 4:07 PM

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