Gallup: Support for legalizing gay marriage reaches new high of 55%

posted at 11:21 am on May 21, 2014 by Allahpundit

Worth reading, not only as a gloss on the various pro-SSM federal rulings over the past week but because the topline number can be interpreted in different ways.

Two successive Gallup polls in 2012 saw support climb from 53% to 54%, indicating a steady but slight growth in acceptance of gay marriages over the past year after a more rapid increase between 2009 and 2011. In the latest May 8-11 poll, there is further evidence that support for gay marriage has solidified above the majority level. This comes on the heels of gay marriage proponents’ 14th legal victory in a row…

In 2011, support for gay marriage vaulted over the 50% mark for the first time, and since 2012, support has remained above that level. In the last year, however, support has leveled off a bit. Currently, 17 states and the District of Columbia have legalized same-sex marriage, while several states wait in legal limbo as they appeal judge rulings overturning state bans.

Support for gay marriage is higher than it’s ever been — but it’s also just barely higher than it was three years ago. Maybe, after a mind-boggling shift in opinion over the past 20 years, the numbers are finally starting to plateau. Or maybe this shows just how resilient opinion on both sides of the issue has become: Despite 13(!) consecutive wins for gay marriage in federal courts across the country since SCOTUS’s Windsor decision last year, public opinion has barely budged. Does that mean the inevitable Supreme Court decision striking down all state bans won’t generate the sort of backlash that critics expect? Or is a SCOTUS ruling sui generis because it would leave the issue legally settled coast-to-coast once and for all?

Another possibility: There is a backlash to the court rulings, not large enough to reverse the growth in support for gay marriage but maybe enough to slow it down and certainly enough to entrench opposition among people who are skeptical. The age breakdown is interesting:

age

Support among young adults continues to skyrocket but growth is much slower lately among the older groups. Could be that’s a simple byproduct of twentysomethings having grown up in an era where being gay isn’t taboo, but it may also be that older people are less comfortable with the sheer pace of change. On the other hand, support among Republicans is up four points since SCOTUS’s Windsor ruling last summer, from 26 percent to 30 percent. (Support is also up three points among self-described conservatives.) If there was a court backlash stirring, the GOP numbers would, at a minimum, be flat today, no?

One more data point for you. And like the others, this can be read two different ways:

region

You might not see a national backlash to a Supreme Court decision legalizing gay marriage, but you may well see one in the south. Or will you? Even in the GOP’s stronghold, support for SSM is awfully close to majority levels. The most likely result, I’d bet, is a short-term backlash where support falls but then rebounds within a few years as people become resigned to it.

Exit question: What’s the ceiling for support of legalized gay marriage within the next, say, 20 years? My gut says 65 percent for no particular reason, knowing that there’s a sizable minority that will continue to oppose it for moral or religious reasons. But between demographic turnover in the population and the simple fact of acclimatization as this becomes the new normal, I do wonder if I’m lowballing it. There’s no reason to think support among young adults will start to decline rather than continue to grow, which means the total population will increasingly consist of a group that’s already on the doorstep of 80 percent in favor.


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Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 2:06 PM

Look, if your call for a Catholic scholar really was sincere, then I apologize for mocking you.

But it looked like you were trolling Catholics rather than expressing a sincere lack of understanding as to why priests and nuns don’t get married even though marriage is a sacrament.

Oh, heck. Even if you are trolling, I still apologize. Mocking people is wrong, and I shouldn’t have done it.

Kensington on May 21, 2014 at 2:25 PM

I don’t think a scholar is going to help.

Kensington on May 21, 2014 at 2:22 PM

No worries.

One showed up.

Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 2:25 PM

I just never knew King George was gay.
Bitter Clinger on May 21, 2014 at 11:41 AM

Of course he was a gay old chap, especially when levying new taxes. Oh, you meant the euphemism for unnatural and anti-evolutionary sexual activity.

Nutstuyu on May 21, 2014 at 2:26 PM

Maybe you can explain that.

Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 2:19 PM

The seven sacraments are divided into three categories:

Sacraments of Initiation
(Baptism, Confirmation, Eucharist)

Sacraments of Healing
(Reconciliation, Anointing of the Sick)

Sacraments of Vocation
(Matrimony, Holy Orders)

While the sacraments are held by the Church to be necessary, not all sacraments are necessary for all people.

steebo77 on May 21, 2014 at 2:26 PM

Celibacy will cause sexual impulses to be directed towards the closest available vulnerable outlet.

For lonely shepherds in the field, the sheep start looking pretty hot, to priests with hundreds of young boys under their sole authority, they become the easy outlet.

everdiso on May 21, 2014 at 1:31 PM

You’re absolutely off your rocker. And have no idea what the hell you are talking about.

melle1228 on May 21, 2014 at 1:34 PM

You know I don’t normally agree with you on teh ghey issues/threads, but you’re spot-on, melle. I’ve read over the comments and everdiso is making no sense whatsoever.

JetBoy on May 21, 2014 at 2:26 PM

No worries.

One showed up.

Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 2:25 PM

And, indeed, I am NOT one.

Kensington on May 21, 2014 at 2:26 PM

Yes, if you are successful at not masturbating, then sexuality will come to the surface one way or another. thuja on May 21, 2014 at 1:44 PM

Wow, so then what’s your excuse?!

Akzed on May 21, 2014 at 2:27 PM

Look, if your call for a Catholic scholar really was sincere, then I apologize for mocking you.

But it looked like you were trolling Catholics rather than expressing a sincere lack of understanding as to why priests and nuns don’t get married even though marriage is a sacrament.

Oh, heck. Even if you are trolling, I still apologize. Mocking people is wrong, and I shouldn’t have done it.

Kensington on May 21, 2014 at 2:25 PM

Is it me, or are you guys way too easy to troll?

The guy in thread sure had you guys going.

I have been known to go on an anti-Catholic screed from time to time. But this isn’t one of them.

Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 2:29 PM

But you guys chose to treat gays as a weapon to use against political opponents.

Well now you guys are losing the issue all of a sudden you’re fine with civil unions but the pro-ssm side has no reason to negotiate now, do they?

Tlaloc on May 21, 2014 at 1:02 PM

I don’t ever remember Civil Unions being offered as a compromise. Seems to me that every state that passed them got sued for marriage. California being the BIGGEST example, because “separate, but equal.” There was never a compromise, because leftist gays really weren’t out for marriage. You say people treat something like a weapon well I don’t see you fighting out against the people getting sued and fired all under the banner of “gay rights.” In fact, it was this type of behavior of the gay rights movement that changed my mind on marriage. I was actually pro-SSM before it became “cool” to be pro-SSM, but then I saw the way Massachusetts and the Catholic adoption agency old learning about gay relationships was handled, and realized that it wasn’t about freedom, but revenge.

melle1228 on May 21, 2014 at 2:29 PM

old learning about gay relationships was handled, and realized that it wasn’t about freedom, but revenge.

melle1228 on May 21, 2014 at 2:29 PM

Holy quote fail.. Should read:

And the way the parents of the six year old who wanted to opt out her learning in school about gay relationships too soon was handled, and realized it wasn’t about freedom, but revenge.

melle1228 on May 21, 2014 at 2:31 PM

The seven sacraments are divided into three categories:

Sacraments of Initiation
(Baptism, Confirmation, Eucharist)

Sacraments of Healing
(Reconciliation, Anointing of the Sick)

Sacraments of Vocation
(Matrimony, Holy Orders)

While the sacraments are held by the Church to be necessary, not all sacraments are necessary for all people.

steebo77 on May 21, 2014 at 2:26 PM

Thanks. Nice and short. I like it.

And what part do the sacraments play in salvation. I’ve often wondered how they could be part of salvation if some people weren’t allowed to take part in one of them.

Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 2:32 PM

The better question is, why don’t Priests/nuns get married if marriage is one of the sacraments?

Maybe some of our Catholic scholars can explain this to me.

Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 2:06 PM

Fundamentally the reason why Priests,Monks and Nuns don’t marry is because in Catholic Tradition they are mystically married through their vows…and this is also why they take the vows of celibacy.

There are some Catholic orders that do have married couples in them…these are specific orders approved by commission through the vatican.

In the Catholic Church tradition bears equal weight to scripture…because God through the Holy Spirit continues to illuminate, but these never conflict with doctrine or each other.

Priestly celibacy was always the case in the higher Bishopric in Church history…even St. Peter who was married was celibate and had a chaste marriage in service to Christ according to Catholic Tradition.

In the Eastern Churches this tradition remains in that only unmarried and celibate priests can advance to Bishop…Archbishop and Patriarch.

In the Roman Church all monks and brethren in orders were celibate as were nuns from the beginning. Many early communities made up of widows and widowers.

By the 1st millennium all Priests were celibate whether they belonged to a specific order or served the Bishop.

The militant orders were always celibate and unmarried…and always had priests,monks and particular tradespeople within their orders.

workingclass artist on May 21, 2014 at 2:34 PM

Actually, “true christianity”, as espoused by that Christ guy, had only Love, caring for others, surrender to God, and avoidance of judgement as priorities – “law and morality” was never Jesus’ priorities.
everdiso on May 21, 2014 at 12:50 PM

Ah yes, Hallmark Jesus, not to be confused with the guy that ransacked the temple because of immorality or called others vipers and whitewashed tombs.

Nutstuyu on May 21, 2014 at 2:35 PM

everdiso on May 21, 2014 at 1:25 PM

So I guess you were sleeping during Biology 101.

Nutstuyu on May 21, 2014 at 2:40 PM

Fundamentally the reason why Priests,Monks and Nuns don’t marry is because in Catholic Tradition they are mystically married through their vows…and this is also why they take the vows of celibacy.

There are some Catholic orders that do have married couples in them…these are specific orders approved by commission through the vatican.

In the Catholic Church tradition bears equal weight to scripture…because God through the Holy Spirit continues to illuminate, but these never conflict with doctrine or each other.

Priestly celibacy was always the case in the higher Bishopric in Church history…even St. Peter who was married was celibate and had a chaste marriage in service to Christ according to Catholic Tradition.

In the Eastern Churches this tradition remains in that only unmarried and celibate priests can advance to Bishop…Archbishop and Patriarch.

In the Roman Church all monks and brethren in orders were celibate as were nuns from the beginning. Many early communities made up of widows and widowers.

By the 1st millennium all Priests were celibate whether they belonged to a specific order or served the Bishop.

The militant orders were always celibate and unmarried…and always had priests,monks and particular tradespeople within their orders.

workingclass artist on May 21, 2014 at 2:34 PM

Thanks.

Don’t know that I’ve ever heard that Peter was married and celibate. That’s strange.

A few more questions if you’ll indulge me.

Can you tell me how Priests can be part of the Body and married to the Body at the same time?

The church is called the Bride of Christ, but won’t be married to Christ until the marriage supper of the lamb.

How can nuns be married to Christ, when the body isn’t currently married to Christ?

How can priests be married to the Body, if Christ isn’t even currently married to the Body?

Thanks for your time.

Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 2:43 PM

Thanks for the response.

A few more questions:

How are they married to the Body, if they are part of the Body?

The apostles were all part of the body. Is there any Biblical support for this teaching?

Thanks.

Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 2:24 PM

The Apostles are Priestly and perform Priestly roles….We are all of us Christians part of the Body of Christ. Christ is the Head…we are the Body.

Tradition existed before the Bible was written.

This is why in Catholicism Tradition bears equal weight to scripture.

Evangelization was always spoken and demonstrated to the people first after Christ ascended into Heaven and after Pentecost.

Pentecost is the birthday of Christ’s Church…It is beautiful.

Christ taught by example and gave certain powers through apostolic succession…This is the essence of his appointment of Peter as his first Bishop and the organization of the elect in Jerusalem. The Mass is the celebration of the Last Supper. This is the essence of Catholicism…The Mass and Works of Charity as instructed by Christ to his Disciples and later through his Apostles and to us the Body..

St. Paul demonstrated to all of us Christ’s continuing call to apostleship…and in the Catholic Church St. Paul is our first Doctor of the Church.

Catholic tradition and doctrine are biblically based. The Church has Doctors that inspired by the Holy Spirit illuminate the understanding and many become important Saints.

Examples:
St. Paul
St. Augustine
St. Thomas Aquinas

Protestants disagree with some of our interpretations of scripture etc.

workingclass artist on May 21, 2014 at 2:53 PM

Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 2:43 PM

Why don’t you wait for a more relevant thread to get your ass kicked on this topic again?

Akzed on May 21, 2014 at 2:56 PM

Why don’t you wait for a more relevant thread to get your ass kicked on this topic again?

Akzed on May 21, 2014 at 2:56 PM

LOL.

You’re still mad, aren’t you?

Interaction with others tends to bring this out in you.

Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 3:06 PM

Thanks.

Don’t know that I’ve ever heard that Peter was married and celibate. That’s strange.

A few more questions if you’ll indulge me.

Can you tell me how Priests can be part of the Body and married to the Body at the same time?

The church is called the Bride of Christ, but won’t be married to Christ until the marriage supper of the lamb.

How can nuns be married to Christ, when the body isn’t currently married to Christ?

How can priests be married to the Body, if Christ isn’t even currently married to the Body?

Thanks for your time.

Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 2:43 PM

The Church is the Bride of Christ. Nuns,Priests and Monks are called by God to a higher calling and order which is why they are both separate from the world and in the world but not of the world. This calling is how they achieve the mystical marriage…They are of the body but serve in a different capacity. In Catholic Tradition they sacrifice the sacrament of marriage/family to achieve a higher form of marriage and service to a spiritual family.

A Priest is called to service in the Holy Sacrament of Orders…He takes a vow of sacrifice to become as holy in imitation to Christ as possible throughout his life.

All Catholics are called to holiness and service…In Catholicism some are called to earthly marriage and family…But in the Catholic Church all of us our one big family…between heaven and earth as designed by Jesus and continually illuminated.

This is why Monks are called Brother…nuns are called Sister and Priests called Father…as they are spiritual fathers and brothers and sisters to the laity.

In Diocesan advancement these take on certain titles due to their office. In convents the Prioress is called Mother Superior…Same with Prior being called Prior or Father based on the Order.

Pope means Papa. The Pope is the Bishop of Rome and presides over and in communion with all the other Bishops around the world…The Eastern Churches call their Popes Patriarchs…which means Father. All But one Eastern denominations in communion with Rome….and The vatican is working on that last one.

workingclass artist on May 21, 2014 at 3:07 PM

Interaction with others fundamentalist anabaptist dispensational dingleberries tends to bring this out in you. Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 3:06 PM

Akzed on May 21, 2014 at 3:08 PM

workingclass artist on May 21, 2014 at 2:53 PM

I don’t want to sound ungrateful for the time and effort you put into the post.

Would it be possible to address the actual questions I asked? Because your response didn’t seem to address them.

Thanks

Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 3:09 PM

Akzed on May 21, 2014 at 3:08 PM

So ‘Doesn’t play well with others’ is something you struggle with?

I’ll keep that in mind.

I know what the real problem is. The troll has left the thread and you’ve no one left to squabble with.

Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 3:11 PM

Catholic tradition and doctrine are biblically based. The Church has Doctors that inspired by the Holy Spirit illuminate the understanding and many become important Saints.

Examples:
St. Paul
St. Augustine
St. Thomas Aquinas

Protestants disagree with some of our interpretations of scripture etc.

workingclass artist on May 21, 2014 at 2:53 PM

I can’t for the life of me hazard a guess why those numbskull Protestants would disagree with the Biblical based doctrine of the Assumption of the Virgin Mary, which the Pope has infallibly declared true.

thuja on May 21, 2014 at 3:14 PM

Now, just put a marijuana plant in place of the field of stars and the flag will be complete.

rplat on May 21, 2014 at 3:15 PM

Choomerica, Choomerica,
God wasted his grace on thee,
And crown thy good with men no good
From she to shining she.

Schadenfreude on May 21, 2014 at 3:16 PM

Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 2:43 PM

Christ is always married in mystical union with his bride…The Church.

Christ is the Head and we are the Body…collectively.

Individually…Some are called to the higher sacrament of service and sacrifice in imitation of Christ.

Priests in imitation of Christ with the sacraments they perform…Nuns in imitation to Christ of personal sacrifice and in imitation of Christ’s Mother through her service and devotion to Christ.

This is why the Catholic Church will not ordain women as Priests…because This is not how Jesus created his church.

Women have an important role and always have had one…Their example of Holy service and devotion is Christ’s Mother….The Greatest Saint in the Catholic Church.

Hope that makes some sense…I am humbled by my clumsy efforts.

Here’s a handy link that can explain much better most of this and answer many of your questions. You can look up just about any topic and they will provide explanation and biblical as well as corresponding doctrinal sources to the teaching.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/

workingclass artist on May 21, 2014 at 3:18 PM

The Church is the Bride of Christ. Nuns,Priests and Monks are called by God to a higher calling and order which is why they are both separate from the world and in the world but not of the world. This calling is how they achieve the mystical marriage…They are of the body but serve in a different capacity. In Catholic Tradition they sacrifice the sacrament of marriage/family to achieve a higher form of marriage and service to a spiritual family.

workingclass artist on May 21, 2014 at 3:07 PM

So they are part of the Body, but married to the body?

Sacrifice the sacrament? Aren’t the sacraments part of salvation? Are any other sacraments ‘sacrificed’?

Sorry for all the questions. This is all new to me.

Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 3:18 PM

Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 2:43 PM

Christ is always married in mystical union with his bride…The Church.

Christ is the Head and we are the Body…collectively.

Individually…Some are called to the higher sacrament of service and sacrifice in imitation of Christ.

Priests in imitation of Christ with the sacraments they perform…Nuns in imitation to Christ of personal sacrifice and in imitation of Christ’s Mother through her service and devotion to Christ.

This is why the Catholic Church will not ordain women as Priests…because This is not how Jesus created his church.

Women have an important role and always have had one…Their example of Holy service and devotion is Christ’s Mother….The Greatest Saint in the Catholic Church.

Hope that makes some sense…I am humbled by my clumsy efforts.

Here’s a handy link that can explain much better most of this and answer many of your questions. You can look up just about any topic and they will provide explanation and biblical as well as corresponding doctrinal sources to the teaching.

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/

workingclass artist on May 21, 2014 at 3:18 PM

Christ is always married? Not sure I follow. The marriage supper takes place in the future.

Do Catholics consider the Priest to be sacrificing Christ when they perform the sacrament?

I do appreciate your responses. I’ve looked on several sites trying to find specific answers. Mostly the responses I found were verbose, ambiguous, and unhelpful.

Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 3:22 PM

Bigbullets, you may very well be the greatest poster in the history of the internets. I admire you and will continue to stand in awe of your rhetorical prowess.

Akzed on May 21, 2014 at 3:08 PM

Thanks, Akzed.

I couldn’t have said it better myself.

Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 3:24 PM

Catholic tradition and doctrine are biblically based. The Church has Doctors that inspired by the Holy Spirit illuminate the understanding and many become important Saints.

Examples:
St. Paul
St. Augustine
St. Thomas Aquinas

Protestants disagree with some of our interpretations of scripture etc.

workingclass artist on May 21, 2014 at 2:53 PM

I can’t for the life of me hazard a guess why those numbskull Protestants would disagree with the Biblical based doctrine of the Assumption of the Virgin Mary, which the Pope has infallibly declared true.

thuja on May 21, 2014 at 3:14 PM

I didn’t call protestants anything derogatory as you did…They protest…They disagree.

That is fact.

It’s also a free country.

As to the Assumption of Mary this is biblically based in Revelation.

Mary is the Woman who will appear with Jesus on that final day. Christ himself referred to her as Woman. Mary is the New Eve.

Mary is also the New Ark that carried the Word.

God assumed Moses and other Prophets into Heaven in the Old Testament and Mary as the Mother of Jesus would have been a special Holy case such as that.

Fatima and Lourdes are two well known examples of Mary continuing to serve God and God’s children.
For Catholics there is communion between Heaven and Earth….Always.

For Catholics…It makes perfect sense that Jesus would love his mother and assume her into Heaven and has been Catholic Tradition long before the official proclamation(s) by the Pope(s).

workingclass artist on May 21, 2014 at 3:30 PM

I do appreciate your responses. I’ve looked on several sites trying to find specific answers. Mostly the responses I found were verbose, ambiguous, and unhelpful.

Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 3:22 PM

Try the link I posted…It’s an excellent source.

There are also some good blogs out there…many written by thoughtful priests that explain things better than I can.

I like this one by Msgr. Pope

http://blog.adw.org

It has a feature called ask a brother where Franciscans answer questions and you can ask Msgr. Pope any question you want to.

There are also many more Catholics on this site who know more than I do or are more articulate than I am.

I’m a bit clumsy in my apologetics.

workingclass artist on May 21, 2014 at 3:38 PM

Do Catholics consider the Priest to be sacrificing Christ when they perform the sacrament?

Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 3:22 PM

The Priest acts in the Priestly role during the Transubstantiation of the Eucharist. Christ is present in the Eucharist after this mystery occurs…so that he feeds spiritually his church.

For Catholics this is not a symbol but real at every Mass and why it is sacrilege for those that aren’t Catholic to receive communion at Mass…because they have not first received the sacrament of reconciliation before receiving the sacrament of communion.

The least a Catholic is expected to reconcile (confession) is once a year before Easter Mass. The Church encourages all Catholics to reconcile often.

The Pope reconciled at the confessional recently before the public before he presided over Mass.

workingclass artist on May 21, 2014 at 3:45 PM

Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 3:22 PM

Also All Catholic Churches have a Consecrated Host contained in a Monstrance in a Tabernacle by the Altar…This is also Christ present in his Church and why Catholics perform an Adoration of the Eucharist at certain times.

For Catholics this is a great and real Mystery.

workingclass artist on May 21, 2014 at 3:48 PM

There are some denominations that recognize certain catholic sacraments who can receive communion under certain circumstances…But I don’t know the list.

workingclass artist on May 21, 2014 at 3:50 PM

Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 3:22 PM

This is also why Satanists attack the Catholic Eucharist…Because Catholics grieve over it…literally.

workingclass artist on May 21, 2014 at 3:52 PM

workingclass artist on May 21, 2014 at 3:50 PM

Aren’t the sacraments part of Salvation?

Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 4:23 PM

Bigbullets, you may very well be the greatest poster in the history of the internets. I admire you and will continue to stand in awe of your rhetorical prowess.

Akzed on May 21, 2014 at 3:08 PM

Thanks, Akzed. I couldn’t have said it better myself. Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 3:24 PM

This is what’s known as a “lie” you fundamentalist anabaptist dispensational dingleberry.

Akzed on May 21, 2014 at 4:42 PM

There is a larger spiritual battle going on behind the same-sex debate, and that is a push for denying the divine origin of the Bible, and therefore rejecting its authority.

The writers of the Bible, moved by the Holy Spirit, wrote several times over the centuries that same-sex relationships are against God’s will. If we say that the Bible is wrong about that, we can refuse to believe whatever else it says is wrong.

It is no coincidence that same-sex marriage has gained popularity during this age of on-demand abortion, easy divorce, widespread adultery, and almost ubiquitous fornication. All are examples of the push for self-autonomy — the attempt to put ourselves and our desires above God and what He says is right and good.

In the Bible, we read that during similar periods, God “gave them over” to their desires. What happened afterward was never enjoyable. We have yet to discover what our self-autonomy will cost us.

KyMouse on May 21, 2014 at 5:00 PM

KyMouse on May 21, 2014 at 5:00 PM

Exactly right.

kingsjester on May 21, 2014 at 5:18 PM

This is what’s known as a “lie” you fundamentalist anabaptist dispensational dingleberry.

Akzed on May 21, 2014 at 4:42 PM

Note to self: Akzed is unable to detect humor or sarcasm on the internet.

I could indicate in my post that it is supposed to be funny, next time. But that usually diminishes the humor quotient.

Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 5:25 PM

Just noticed that in the front page image for this article the guy holding the rainbow flag is wearing a brown shirt.

agmartin on May 21, 2014 at 5:28 PM

That technically only applies when the man files for divorce.

jim56 on May 21, 2014 at 1:59 PM

Technically? You can’t be serious.
For most Christian denominations it doesn’t matter.

weedisgood on May 21, 2014 at 2:04 PM

I’m absolutely serious. Read the Bible verse:

Jesus replied, “Moses permitted you to divorce your wives because your hearts were hard. But it was not this way from the beginning. 9 I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for sexual immorality, and marries another woman commits adultery.”

It only applies when a man divorces his wife, not when a wife divorces her husband. I understand that most denominations don’t read it that way, but as written, that’s what it does say.

It’s odd, for instance, that the Catholic Church won’t allow women to be priests because none of the disciples were women (because of cultural issues, presumably) yet thinks it’s fine to read this verse in a more modern way as if it applies if either spouse files for divorce.

jim56 on May 21, 2014 at 5:45 PM

Sickening and the continued collapse of Western Civ goes on…..Islam will have a field day with our depravity!

Albertanator on May 21, 2014 at 7:17 PM

Why do you care I’d you have a majority? Legitimacy? The majority is meaningless except as a salve for Kennedy when he forces gay marriage down the throats of every state in the Union, against their wishes, and fully in the face of anything resembling Constitutional justice.

Stop dancing around the fact that you enjoy the heady pheromone of unchecked tyranny over those you don’t agree with.

spmat on May 21, 2014 at 7:34 PM

“Satan, Your Kingdom Must Come Down,” -Robert Plant.

Akzed on May 21, 2014 at 7:54 PM

90% of Germans voted for Hitler in 1934. Wisdom of the masses.

Mason on May 21, 2014 at 8:30 PM

It’s odd, for instance, that the Catholic Church won’t allow women to be priests because none of the disciples were women (because of cultural issues, presumably) yet thinks it’s fine to read this verse in a more modern way as if it applies if either spouse files for divorce.

jim56 on May 21, 2014 at 5:45 PM

The reason Women are not ordained as Priests in Catholicism is because A. Christ did not ordain a woman to fulfill the apostolic and priestly role (There were also no female rabbis or Priests in the Temple, but there were female judges and important Jewish female heroes such as Judith in the Old Testament) Judaism during most of it’s history did not ordain rabbis or during it’s last Temple period the temple priests. Ordaining female rabbis is a mid twentieth century change to Jewish practice in some Jewish sects.

During that and earlier periods in history Priestesses were pagan and often associated with Temple Prostitution.

B. A Female cannot perform the Priestly role during the Mass because the Mass reenacts Christs’ actions literal and mystical at the Last Supper…A Female cannot initiate the transubstantiation…(the mystery) because in that priestly role she cannot imitate Christ and initiate the mystery. Catholics believe Christ initiated all of his disciples in this mystery and all of the sacramental mysteries and this was passed on through apostolic succession. The Rites have continued to be passed down Bishop to Priest.

That is not how Jesus Christ designed his church in Catholic tradition.

workingclass artist on May 21, 2014 at 8:57 PM

Gallup: Support for legalizing gay marriage reaches new high of 55%

People are just sick of hearing the rancor going on and on and on about it.

Like most issues, the average American figures if they give in, it will just go away and life will be better somehow…doesn’t affect them…until it does of course.

Dr. ZhivBlago on May 21, 2014 at 9:26 PM

jim56 on May 21, 2014 at 5:45 PM

Do you support marriage equality?

blink on May 21, 2014 at 10:13 PM

I support civil unions. I don’t support gay marriage because I don’t understand what gay marriage provides in addition to what civil unions do. And I think asking for gay marriage is needlessly offensive and provocative since I don’t know what gay marriage provides on top of civil unions. Thanks for asking.

jim56 on May 21, 2014 at 11:12 PM

workingclass artist on May 21, 2014 at 8:57 PM

The female gender can’t generate the same hocus pocus.

lexhamfox on May 21, 2014 at 11:14 PM

Christ is always married? Not sure I follow. The marriage supper takes place in the future.

Do Catholics consider the Priest to be sacrificing Christ when they perform the sacrament?

I do appreciate your responses. I’ve looked on several sites trying to find specific answers. Mostly the responses I found were verbose, ambiguous, and unhelpful.

Bigbullets on May 21, 2014 at 3:22 PM

I fumbled the explanation…and it bothered me so I hope this corrects my fumble.

On nuns:

” The Catechism of the Catholic Church teaches that all nuns are mystically betrothed to Jesus Christ. In this actual marriage ceremony a young woman dressed in white, makes a public vow to the Church. After this public profession, the young woman is told that she has become the bride of Christ and must consecrate herself to God “until death”. In this subtle the Catholic Church is offering to the young woman a substitute for marriage to a real man. Although the concept of the “Bride of Christ” is found in Scripture, I challenge you to see whom the Lord is calling the Bride of Christ.

The Catechism Says:

923 Virgins who, committed to the holy plan of following Christ more closely, are consecrated to God by the diocesan bishop according to the approved liturgical rite, are betrothed mystically to Christ, the Son of God, and are dedicated to the service of the Church.” By this solemn rite (Consecratio virginum), the virgin is “constituted . . . a sacred person, a transcendent sign of the Church’s love for Christ, and an eschatological image of this heavenly Bride of Christ and of the life to come

The Bible Says:

1 Timothy 4: 1-3 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

The Roman Catholic understanding of a nun being the bride of Christ is not found in the Bible. The Holy Scriptures state that the Bride of Christ or Body of Christ is comprised of those who are born again into a living relationship with God through Jesus Christ (1 Corinthians 12:12-14). These individuals are incorporated into an invisible union with Jesus Christ. His Body consists of many members throughout the ages and throughout the entire world. The Bible refers to this union as the “Church.” Over the centuries, the Bride of Christ has continued to grow as people are reconciled to the living God through the death of Jesus Christ on the cross of Calvary. Meanwhile, God is preparing this body of believers, the Church, to be united with Jesus.

The Apostle Paul teaches us that the Church is presently under going transformation, being purified and washed by the teaching of the word of God (the Bible). We read this in Ephesians 5:25-26 “Husbands, love your wives, even as Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it; that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word, that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish”. The apostle is comparing the relationship between husbands and wives to that of Christ and the Church.

When the end of the age is culminated, Jesus Christ comes to claim his precious Bride or Church.

We are given a glimpse of this glorious event in the book of Revelation 19: 7-9 “Let us be glad and rejoice, and give honour to him: for the marriage of the Lamb is come, and his wife hath made herself ready. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints. And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb. And he saith unto me, These are the true sayings of God.” Revelation 21:9 … “I will shew thee the bride, the Lamb’s wife”. Dear reader, examine the state of your soul. Have you been washed by the Word of God? Will you stand holy and blameless before the Lamb of God at the Great Marriage Supper?…”

source link:

http://www.whateverycatholicshouldknow.com/wecsk/convent_bridechrist.htm

On Priests:

“In the Eastern rites of the Church it is common for married men to be ordained to the priesthood. Further, in the Latin rite there are a few married men, converted ministers from other faiths, who are ordained to the Catholic priesthood. This, however, is not common. Finally, in neither the Latin rite nor the Eastern rites do priests (or deacons) marry after they have been ordained, except in extraordinary circumstances.

The reasons Latin rite priests can’t marry is both theological and canonical.

Theologically, it may be pointed out that priests serve in the place of Christ and therefore, their ministry specially configures them to Christ. As is clear from Scripture, Christ was not married (except in a mystical sense, to the Church). By remaining celibate and devoting themselves to the service of the Church, priests more closely model, configure themselves to, and consecrate themselves to Christ.

As Christ himself makes clear, none of us will be married in heaven (Mt 22:23–30). By remaining unmarried in this life, priests are more closely configured to the final, eschatological state that will be all of ours.

Paul makes it very clear that remaining single allows one’s attention to be undivided in serving the Lord (1 Cor 7:32–35). He recommends celibacy to all (1 Cor 7:7) but especially to ministers, who as soldiers of Christ he urges to abstain from “civilian affairs” (2 Tm 2:3–4).

Canonically, priests cannot marry for a number of reasons. First, priests who belong to religious orders take vows of celibacy. Second, while diocesan priests do not take vows, they do make a promise of celibacy.

Third, the Church has established impediments that block the validity of marriages attempted by those who have been ordained. Canon 1087 states: “Persons who are in holy orders invalidly attempt marriage.”

This impediment remains as long as the priest has not been dispensed from it, even if he were to attempt a civil marriage, even if he left the Church and joined a non-Catholic sect, and even if he apostatized from the Christian faith altogether. He cannot be validly married after ordination unless he receives a dispensation from the Holy See (CIC 1078 §2, 1)…”

source link:

http://www.catholic.com/quickquestions/why-cant-a-priest-ever-marry

There are some married Priests (Usually Anglican) that converted to Catholicism and serve as diocesan priests…but while married they cannot advance beyond parish priest. Some of the priests lead converted anglican congregations. The ordinariate allows the new Catholics to keep their Anglican form of worship, including the Book of Common Prayer. There is work being done on a Lutheran ordinariate. Pope Bendict XVI was responsible for the theological and doctrinal heavy lifting for the ordinariate in response to traditional religious anglicans/episcopalians in crisis over recent doctrinal decisions within their own church. Pope Benedict simplified for them their conversion while allowing them to keep their cultural history.

workingclass artist on May 21, 2014 at 11:14 PM

B. A Female cannot perform the Priestly role during the Mass because the Mass reenacts Christs’ actions literal and mystical at the Last Supper…A Female cannot initiate the transubstantiation…(the mystery) because in that priestly role she cannot imitate Christ and initiate the mystery. Catholics believe Christ initiated all of his disciples in this mystery and all of the sacramental mysteries and this was passed on through apostolic succession. The Rites have continued to be passed down Bishop to Priest.

That is not how Jesus Christ designed his church in Catholic tradition.

workingclass artist on May 21, 2014 at 8:57 PM

I appreciate the explanation. I find it circular, though. No female can imitate Christ because no female was at the last supper. Yet all of the sacramental mysteries are passed down through apostolic succession even though no one in the line of succession was present either. Hmm…

jim56 on May 21, 2014 at 11:15 PM

The female gender can’t generate the same hocus pocus.

lexhamfox on May 21, 2014 at 11:14 PM

Hocus Pocus is what the Shakers called the Latin in the Mass….at least that’s what I was told as a kid in sunday school.

It used to crack us up.

workingclass artist on May 21, 2014 at 11:17 PM

Didn’t poll me or the many millions of Christians who oppose ‘same sex marriage’.

sadsushi on May 21, 2014 at 11:18 PM

I appreciate the explanation. I find it circular, though. No female can imitate Christ because no female was at the last supper. Yet all of the sacramental mysteries are passed down through apostolic succession even though no one in the line of succession was present either. Hmm…

jim56 on May 21, 2014 at 11:15 PM

What I said was no female can perform the priestly role in the Mass. They also cannot perform other sacraments like confession…marriage masses or anointing of the sick (extreme unction).

These sacraments are performed by ordained priests. Some ordained priests are also monks but not all monks can perform all sacraments…It depends on the order and the monk or friar.

workingclass artist on May 21, 2014 at 11:30 PM

Marriage: Where Do We Go From Here?
The pro-marriage case can win — if we don’t give up on it.

By Ryan T. Anderson

Anderson has written another excellent analysis of marriage, the current political climate, and what should be done next to make the case for marriage—real, conjugal marriage between a man and a woman. He has been at the front of this battle, and is a co-author of What Is Marriage? Man and Woman: A Defense, and the William E. Simon Fellow at the Heritage Foundation.

From page 2:

The courts seem intent on disregarding the democratic process and usurping authority away from citizens and their representatives. But the Court will be less likely to usurp the authority of citizens if it is obvious that citizens are engaged in this democratic debate and care about the future of marriage. This is what Justice Scalia predicted: The Court will do whatever it thinks it can get away with. And as recent events in the lower federal courts suggest, judges seem to think they can get away with a lot.

From page 4:

Most Americans are unaware that there are two competing visions of marriage on offer in this debate, but my experience on dozens of college campuses during the past year suggests there is hope here. On almost every campus I visited, including such elite law schools as Stanford and NYU, students came up to me afterward to say that they had never heard a rational case for marriage. Christians would say that they always knew marriage was between a man and a woman, but never knew how to defend it as a policy and legal matter — that they knew what the Bible revealed and the church taught, but lacked a vocabulary for articulating what God had written on the heart. Now they could better explain how faith and reason went together; how theology and philosophy, the Bible and social science all pointed to the same truth.

INC on May 22, 2014 at 6:39 PM

Homosexual marriage = worthless marriage.

It’s Heterosexual marriage that keeps the species continuing, not the corrupted version of it.

The Nerve on May 23, 2014 at 12:03 AM

I think some of the growing support is by Republicans who think the GOP has to go soft on gay marriage in order to win a national election. Let Republicans win the Senate this Fall and/or win in 2016 and then see where the support is.

I also think some of the youth support will taper off as they turn 35 and get married and have kids of their own. Opposition to gay marriage isn’t about propagating the othering of same-sex couples; it’s about maintaining the purpose of marriage which does not include incubating the sensitivities of sexual minorities in a cloak of governmental approval.

jas88 on May 23, 2014 at 5:36 AM

Define your terms and I’ll argue with you. Most Americans are such stupid useful idiots they don’t know what “gay” or “homosex-” or “marriage” is in the first place, and would have been condemned by our profoundly wiser Founders for it. See “The gay invention” at http://www.touchstonemag.com re this vile linguistic and moral error that only bigoted, barbaric-uncivilized fools fail to oppose, incapable of rational though as said useful idiots, like those who supported vile Hitler & his vile boyfriends and the similar demise of the Roman empire by sodomizing. God is not mocked and He’ll have the last laught! God save us.

russedav on May 23, 2014 at 10:35 AM

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