Sudan sentences pregnant Christian to death for apostasy

posted at 8:41 am on May 15, 2014 by Ed Morrissey

A pregnant woman faces the death penalty in Sudan for apostasy, after police discovered that she had been raised as a Christian despite the family’s identification as Muslim. Meriam Yehya Ibrahim also faces a sentence of flogging for marrying outside her religion, even though her husband is also Christian. The heart of both cases is the law forbidding the conversion of any Muslim to any other faith:

A Sudanese court has sentenced a Christian woman to death for renouncing Islam, her lawyer said Thursday.

Meriam Yehya Ibrahim, 27, was convicted by a Khartoum court this week of apostasy, or the renunciation of faith.

The court considers her to be Muslim.

She also was convicted of adultery.

Ibrahim’s lawyer Haram Othman told CNN that her legal team will appeal the verdict within 15 days.

According to the rights group Amnesty International, she was convicted of adultery because her marriage to a Christian man was considered void under Sharia law. She was sentenced to 100 lashes for the second crime.

The court gave her three days to reconvert to Islam or face death. The government of Sudan also insisted that this was normal justice in Islamic countries:

In what is said to be the first case of its kind in Sudan, Ibrahim was told by a court in the capital Khartoum on Sunday that she had three days to recant her faith or face death.

Ahmed Bilal Osman, Sudan’s Information minister, told the AFP news agency: “It’s not only Sudan. In Saudi Arabia, in all the Muslim countries, it is not allowed at all for a Muslim to change his religion.”

Western nations immediately protested the court’s ruling, as did Amnesty International, which is seeking to publicize the case:

“The fact that a woman could be sentenced to death for her religious choice, and to flogging for being married to a man of an allegedly different religion is abhorrent,” said Manar Idriss, Amnesty International’s Sudan researcher. “‘Adultery’ and ‘apostasy’ are acts which should not be considered crimes at all…It is flagrant breach of international human rights law.”

The Khartoum embassies of the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom and Holland expressed their opposition to the case in a joint statement.

The US has limited resources with which to act. We have diplomatic relations with Sudan and deliver a significant amount of humanitarian aid, but we have no ambassador to Sudan; the post has been vacant for a year or more. We have sanctions still in place from the Darfur conflict, although we are also working to mediate the remaining disputes in the settlement. We could squeeze Khartoum on aid, but that would almost certainly backfire on the US in terms of public relations.

Nevertheless, we need to keep pressure in some form on Sudan to reverse this decision. We should also pray for Meriam Yehya Ibrahim, and for true justice to be done.


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Comment pages: 1 2

I remember Neil Boortz telling a story about a guest from the Soviet Union that he and his wife had. They took her to the grocery store and she just stood there and sobbed. I can imagine people thinking that it is an entirely different planet.

Cindy Munford on May 15, 2014 at 11:47 AM

Story along these lines… In the 70s a Soviet Mig 25 pilot, Viktor Belenko, took his plane and defected. I read a book about it in high school “Mig Pilot” by John Barron. It blew my mind reading the book and seeing America through Belenko’s eyes. He could not fathom the immense wealth of the average American compared to the average Russian. For some time he was suspicious that everything he was seeing was staged….grocery stores, houses, near universal car ownership, etc. He simply could not fathom that what he was seeing was real.

Texas Zombie on May 15, 2014 at 11:58 AM

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 11:42 AM

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 11:41 AM

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 11:35 AM

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 11:30 AM

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 11:20 AM

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 11:08 AM

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 9:16 AM

On a thread about a poor pregnant woman sentenced to death, mazer9 wants to talk and talk and TALK only about his Creator.

Proof positive, I submit, that anti-theists like him are begging inside for a conversation not just about God but with God.

Dolce Far Niente on May 15, 2014 at 11:59 AM

On a thread about a poor pregnant woman sentenced to death, mazer9 wants to talk and talk and TALK only about his Creator.

Proof positive, I submit, that anti-theists like him are begging inside for a conversation not just about God but with God.

Dolce Far Niente on May 15, 2014 at 11:59 AM

A conversation they can have at any moment if they would just open thier hearts.

Skwor on May 15, 2014 at 12:01 PM

So God is there to provide for you until he isn’t?

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 11:57 AM

God isn’t there for me. I’m here for Him.

He isn’t here to serve me. I’m here to serve Him.

He wouldn’t be much of a God if he were doing my bidding, would he?

Bigbullets on May 15, 2014 at 12:03 PM

As a believer, what would your expectations be of your God if you found yourself in the same situation?

Again, if he answers Tebow’s prayers, why not hers?

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 11:35 AM

Man has been given free will to do good as well as evil. While Christians advocate treating all as you would wish them to do to you, some do evil instead. This is a bad reflection on man; not a bad reflection on God.

KW64 on May 15, 2014 at 12:03 PM

If you start at 600 AD until after the reformation, it’s not implausible.

Bigbullets on May 15, 2014 at 11:31 AM

So, over 1000 years roughly comes out to 63,000 a year. That’s not implausible, but, the church, and Christianity in general have stopped killing people. The same cannot be said for Islam.

NancyWhisky on May 15, 2014 at 12:05 PM

Check this out. Huma influences Hillary to be a thug.

Schadenfreude on May 15, 2014 at 12:10 PM

Go learn some basic theology first, these are posits even serious critics do not raise becuase they are logically and reasonably addressed in the theology of christianity.

You reasoning is worse than a child’s trying to tell a physicist how quantum mechanics works.

Skwor on May 15, 2014 at 11:50 AM

Perhaps they aren’t “serious” enough because it makes no sense for a god that hates evil and values free will to empower an evil super villain to perpetuate it.

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 12:10 PM

So, over 1000 years roughly comes out to 63,000 a year. That’s not implausible, but, the church, and Christianity in general have stopped killing people. The same cannot be said for Islam.

NancyWhisky on May 15, 2014 at 12:05 PM

I agree. I’m not giving Islam a pass.

I just want to give people a bit of perspective.

Bigbullets on May 15, 2014 at 12:13 PM

God isn’t there for me. I’m here for Him.

He isn’t here to serve me. I’m here to serve Him.

He wouldn’t be much of a God if he were doing my bidding, would he?

Bigbullets on May 15, 2014 at 12:03 PM

Riiiight. That’s why you are compared to “sheep” in the bible and Jesus is the “Shepherd”.

I guess the Shepherd needs the sheep more than the sheep need the shepherd huh?

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 12:13 PM

Texas Zombie on May 15, 2014 at 11:58 AM

I’m going to have to look into that, it sounds like mandatory reading. Although I’d be happy if students got de Tocqueville.

Cindy Munford on May 15, 2014 at 12:13 PM

Riiiight. That’s why you are compared to “sheep” in the bible and Jesus is the “Shepherd”.

I guess the Shepherd needs the sheep more than the sheep need the shepherd huh?

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 12:13 PM

God doesn’t need anything. Or anyone. I don’t have anything that He didn’t give me. So it doesn’t make sense that I could give Him anything that doesn’t already belong to Him.

There are many different ways to describe my relationship with God. Each one is instructive. But each description has it’s limitations.

You think of God in a selfish way. About what you can get out of God. What God can do for you. And it doesn’t work like that.

Bigbullets on May 15, 2014 at 12:17 PM

As a believer, what would your expectations be of your God if you found yourself in the same situation?

Again, if he answers Tebow’s prayers, why not hers?

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 11:35 AM

13 Then Nebuchadnezzar in rage and anger gave orders to bring Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego; then these men were brought before the king. 14 Nebuchadnezzar responded and said to them, “Is it true, Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego, that you do not serve my gods or worship the golden image that I have set up? 15 Now if you are ready, at the moment you hear the sound of the horn, flute, [m]lyre, trigon, psaltery and bagpipe and all kinds of music, to fall down and worship the image that I have made, very well. But if you do not worship, you will [n]immediately be cast into the midst of a furnace of blazing fire; and what god is there who can deliver you out of my hands?”

16 Shadrach, Meshach and Abed-nego replied to the king, “O Nebuchadnezzar, we do not need to give you an answer concerning this matter. 17 [o]If it be so, our God whom we serve is able to deliver us from the furnace of blazing fire; [p]and He will deliver us out of your hand, O king. 18 But even if He does not, let it be known to you, O king, that we are not going to serve your gods or worship the golden image that you have set up.”

Daniel gives us a clear example of God intervening to save three of His followers, but at the same time, the text clearly tells us that God may not save them. Stephen wasn’t saved in Acts from bring martyred. Sometimes we are delivered from physical evil, and sometimes we are not. What happens is wholly dependent upon the sovereignty of God and according to His plan.

Othniel on May 15, 2014 at 12:22 PM

Quantum mechanics doesn’t make any sense to a child either. Your response was hilarious. Don’t blame quantum mechanics if your brain is too small or your experience too limited for you to understand it.

blink on May 15, 2014 at 12:22 PM

Are you really trying to compare the ideal of Satan to quantum mechanics?

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 12:25 PM

God and according to His plan.

Othniel on May 15, 2014 at 12:22 PM

So if it is all predestined, what is the point of prayer?

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 12:26 PM

I’m going to have to look into that, it sounds like mandatory reading. Although I’d be happy if students got de Tocqueville.

Cindy Munford on May 15, 2014 at 12:13 PM

Not sure if modern public school students are literate enough to handle de Tocqueville. But they can easily read and understand Mig Pilot. It should definitely be mandatory reading. Here’s an Amazon link to the book.

Texas Zombie on May 15, 2014 at 12:28 PM

Texas Zombie on May 15, 2014 at 12:28 PM

Thank you so much.

Cindy Munford on May 15, 2014 at 12:30 PM

I’m saying that you’re like a child claiming that quantum mechanics doesn’t make any sense to you simply because you’re not equipped to thoroughly understand it.

I’m equating your reaction – not the concepts, Idiot.

blink on May 15, 2014 at 12:32 PM

Who is “equipped” to understand “Satan”?

The Ghostbusters?

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 12:35 PM

You should be embarrassed by this comment regardless of your beliefs and her beliefs. 99% of Americans wouldn’t write something like this even if she was being killed for her belief in the tooth fairy.

blink on May 15, 2014 at 12:29 PM

I’m not “embarrassed”. I feel for that women just as much as anyone else do. My question had absolutely nothing to do with her and everything to do with the absence of your God.

Sorry if that gets you all on the defensive.

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 12:36 PM

So if it is all predestined, what is the point of prayer?

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 12:26 PM

LOL. You’re posts have officially JTS.

Bigbullets on May 15, 2014 at 12:36 PM

You guys have got to learn how to respond to these atheists.

Every time they come onto one of these thread, ya’ll get worked up.

Bigbullets on May 15, 2014 at 12:38 PM

Again, if he answers Tebow’s prayers, why not hers?

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 11:35 AM

God doesn’t save anyone’s earthly life. He can’t change that which He has already seen. He does not have free will in the same sense that we do. That would require Him to have ignorance. Don’t let Christian confusion on the subject blind you.

BTW, I’m a deist who is generally sympathetic to Christian philosophy.

fadetogray on May 15, 2014 at 12:41 PM

I’m not “embarrassed”. I feel for that women just as much as anyone else do. My question had absolutely nothing to do with her and everything to do with the absence of your God.

Sorry if that gets you all on the defensive.

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 12:36 PM

God is never absent. He’s always there.

For this woman, He gives her the comfort and grace she needs.

There’s a book that tells of people’s last hours. Before there were so many medications. And the difference is stark.

When Christians died, there was peace and contentment.

When atheists died, there was fear and hopelessness.

You should read this book and give us your thoughts.

Bigbullets on May 15, 2014 at 12:41 PM

Riiiight. That’s why you are compared to “sheep” in the bible and Jesus is the “Shepherd”.

I guess the Shepherd needs the sheep more than the sheep need the shepherd huh?

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 12:13 PM

Shepherds gather their flock and care for their needs.

kcewa on May 15, 2014 at 12:42 PM

I remember Neil Boortz telling a story about a guest from the Soviet Union that he and his wife had. They took her to the grocery store and she just stood there and sobbed. I can imagine people thinking that it is an entirely different planet.

Cindy Munford on May 15, 2014 at 11:47 AM

Story along these lines… In the 70s a Soviet Mig 25 pilot, Viktor Belenko, took his plane and defected. I read a book about it in high school “Mig Pilot” by John Barron. It blew my mind reading the book and seeing America through Belenko’s eyes. He could not fathom the immense wealth of the average American compared to the average Russian. For some time he was suspicious that everything he was seeing was staged….grocery stores, houses, near universal car ownership, etc. He simply could not fathom that what he was seeing was real.

Texas Zombie on May 15, 2014 at 11:58 AM

If you took an average Norkie to Seoul today you would see the same thing.

slickwillie2001 on May 15, 2014 at 12:42 PM

God doesn’t save anyone’s earthly life. He can’t change that which He has already seen. He does not have free will in the same sense that we do. That would require Him to have ignorance. Don’t let Christian confusion on the subject blind you.

BTW, I’m a deist who is generally sympathetic to Christian philosophy.

fadetogray on May 15, 2014 at 12:41 PM

You sound very confused.

kcewa on May 15, 2014 at 12:43 PM

You sound very confused.

kcewa on May 15, 2014 at 12:43 PM

Pretty sure that’s on purpose.

Bigbullets on May 15, 2014 at 12:49 PM

So if it is all predestined, what is the point of prayer?

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 12:26 PM

Simply put, God’s sovereign plan is carried out through both His actions and by human agency. For example, when I pray for something and God hears and responds to my prayer, that was part of His plan. My prayer is both something that was sovereignly planned by God and my voluntary action.

Othniel on May 15, 2014 at 12:52 PM

It doesn’t make me defensive. It’s like I’m watching a weak hyena attacking a group of gazelles. It’s fun to distract the weak hyena. (You’re the weak hyena in this analogy.)

Now, before you say that I’m equating you with a hyena, you need to learn the definition of the word equate and learn about analogies. Analogies don’t “equate.”

blink on May 15, 2014 at 12:48 PM

It’s more like the kid at the zoo who throws rocks at the lions (or whatever).

Bigbullets on May 15, 2014 at 12:52 PM

Simply put, God’s sovereign plan is carried out through both His actions and by human agency. For example, when I pray for something and God hears and responds to my prayer, that was part of His plan. My prayer is both something that was sovereignly planned by God and my voluntary action.

Othniel on May 15, 2014 at 12:52 PM

What if God in His sovereignty chose that by prayer, Christians could change the course of events?

It wouldn’t make God any less sovereign.

Bigbullets on May 15, 2014 at 12:54 PM

Simply put, God’s sovereign plan is carried out through both His actions and by human agency. For example, when I pray for something and God hears and responds to my prayer, that was part of His plan. My prayer is both something that was sovereignly planned by God and my voluntary action.

Othniel on May 15, 2014 at 12:52 PM

So it wouldn’t have been part of “God’s sovereign plan” if you didn’t ask?

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 12:55 PM

You sound very confused.

kcewa on May 15, 2014 at 12:43 PM

I used to be. I spent decades in the wilderness, unable to reconcile my awareness of God with the internal contradictions in Christianity (and in other religions).

Finally, in a moment of clarity, I realized I shouldn’t let Christian confusion (and the inconsistences in other religions) bar me from understanding. I was spending my life wrestling with the alligators when I should have been draining the swamp.

Christianity is a cultural ‘entity.’ It has to make philosophical compromises to gain social acceptance, which is necessary for its survival. There is nothing ‘wrong’ with that, but it does mean it cannot focus exclusively on truth.

fadetogray on May 15, 2014 at 12:56 PM

This is Islam, folks, not radical” Islam. For 14 centuries this sort of ruling has been standard Islamic law consistent with the Koran and backed by the sayings and deeds of Muhammad.

Islam is totally incompatible with modern Western Civilization. It should be fought, not pampered with suicidal political correctness.

Want to know what to think of Islam? Don’t believe what smiling Muslims in the West say (they’re allowed to deceive infidels). See how this demented 7th century ideology is practiced in Muslim lands.

Chessplayer on May 15, 2014 at 12:58 PM

Satan might be “obvious” to you.

To me it begs the question as to why would God corrupt his own creation by introducing “Satan” and then giving him all these powers that makes doing the job even easier?

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 11:41 AM

There are plenty of theology books on the subject that answer this question…for those that are truly interested, that is.

Ricard on May 15, 2014 at 1:04 PM

My question had absolutely nothing to do with her and everything to do with the absence of your God.

Sorry if that gets you all on the defensive.

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 12:36 PM

How do you conclude God is absent?

Ricard on May 15, 2014 at 1:06 PM

it does mean it cannot focus exclusively on truth.

fadetogray on May 15, 2014 at 12:56 PM

I’d like to know the truth. Can you explain it?

blink on May 15, 2014 at 1:01 PM

===

And you shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

John 8:32

Q: And what is the truth?
A: Jesus Christ is the truth.

Jesus said to him, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.

John 14:6

ITguy on May 15, 2014 at 1:06 PM

I’d still like to know fadetogray’s answer.

blink on May 15, 2014 at 1:11 PM

Me, too.

ITguy on May 15, 2014 at 1:19 PM

I’d like to know the truth. Can you explain it?

blink on May 15, 2014 at 1:01 PM

No. Truth is not one of those kinds of things that can be explained. It would be even more impossible than trying to explain the full nature of God. Or maybe it would be identical.

Words are limited. Only bits can be explained, and any partial explanations that don’t have social acceptance won’t survive for any time.

fadetogray on May 15, 2014 at 1:23 PM

What if God in His sovereignty chose that by prayer, Christians could change the course of events?

It wouldn’t make God any less sovereign.

Bigbullets on May 15, 2014 at 12:54 PM

I guess I really don’t see the difference between this and what I said.

So it wouldn’t have been part of “God’s sovereign plan” if you didn’t ask?

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 12:55 PM

Sure, it would’ve been part of His plan. I believe in compatibilism (and for any who might be wondering, I am a Calvinist, which is the philosophical understanding that man does not have a true free will (understanding this definition of free will as the ability to act apart from human nature and God’s sovereignty). Man makes choices that simultaneously are his own (which he bears responsibility for) and were ordained by God prior to creation.

Hey, if you are truly curious, these may help understand where I’m coming from: http://www.reformation21.org/articles/do-we-have-free-will.php
http://www.monergism.com/thethreshold/articles/onsite/qna/sovereignfree.html

Othniel on May 15, 2014 at 1:25 PM

A family from my church has been doing mission work in the South Sudan for a little over a year. They’ve planted a number of churches, and have been very encouraged by the number of people they’ve encountered, who want to learn about Christ, and accept Him into their lives.
HarryBackside on May 15, 2014 at 10:03 AM

Interesting. It’s raining in the developing world and we’re having a drought here in the West.

Cleombrotus on May 15, 2014 at 1:25 PM

Sounds to me like mazer didn’t get his three wishes.

CurtZHP on May 15, 2014 at 1:27 PM

Oops, messed up my parentheses. This: ” I believe in compatibilism (and for any who might be wondering, I am a Calvinist, which is the philosophical understanding that man does not have a true free will (understanding this definition of free will as the ability to act apart from human nature and God’s sovereignty)”

Should read thus:

“I believe in compatibilism (and for any who might be wondering, I am a Calvinist), which is the philosophical understanding that man does not have a true free will (understanding this definition of free will as the ability to act apart from human nature and God’s sovereignty)”

Othniel on May 15, 2014 at 1:27 PM

This is Islam, folks, not “radical” Islam. For 14 centuries this sort of ruling has been standard Islamic law consistent with the Koran and backed by the sayings and deeds of Muhammad.

Islam is totally incompatible with modern Western Civilization. It should be fought, not pampered with suicidal political correctness.

Want to know what to think of Islam? Don’t believe what smiling Muslims in the West say (they’re allowed to deceive infidels). See how this demented 7th century ideology is practiced in Muslim lands.

Chessplayer on May 15, 2014 at 12:58 PM

Exactly. It is astounding the Left and our elites in the West are blind to this when it is so obvious.

fadetogray on May 15, 2014 at 1:27 PM

I think there is a point few see. Historically, there were many “holy” wars in Europe a few centuries ago. nasty, ugly wars. And humanity fought the vast majority of its existence. Only since WWII has there been a comparatively almost 60 years of peace, ww. Why? America patrolled the seas and was a force to be reckoned with. Now? well….

The inter-Christian wars pretty much stopped centuries ago – yep, some Irish kept at it but even they finally said, “No more.”

Why? The ability to think freely became paramount. WHen one is constrained by a culture /tribe/religion/ ruler/government that develops a set of rules so rigid that no one can deviate from then, inventiveness is destroyed. Add to that the destruction of the human soul and lack of tolerance, creativity and free movement become things of the past. People in charge become totalitarian and voices and ideas become quiet.

Over the last 100-150 years, enormous strides have been made in science: strides that affect manufacturing, mining, flight, food, medicine, agriculture, education, etc. – these inventions develop in free societies.

Islam has had good centuries but recently? And looking back to discover why there was success vs. just claiming success are two different approaches.

My heart (and, yes, prayers) go out to people who have the misfortune to live somewhere, where freedom to believe, speak, write, think are monitored and restricted

People migrate to freer societies – most everyone wants to get to the USA. People go TO S. Korea; not N Korea; people in East Germany gave their lives to get to West Germany; from communist countries to free countries; this to/from list is long throughout history – from restrictive societies to freer societies. It’s called the core human spirit.

MN J on May 15, 2014 at 1:39 PM

Then, it seems as if you started seeking truth after (or during) a swamp draining, and that constraints due to cultural acceptance prevent someone from both seeking truth and following christianity.

Not at all. It was preventing me. Which is why I brought the subject up to mazer9 just in case he was similarly blocked. But that doesn’t mean anyone else would have trouble fully embracing Christianity as an identity group while retaining skepticism regarding parts of its dogma.

So, I’m wondering, on a high level, what this means. It’s very intriguing.

blink on May 15, 2014 at 1:33 PM

What would you regard as a ‘high level?’ Just so you know, I don’t smoke pot.

fadetogray on May 15, 2014 at 1:48 PM

This isn’t something new. The Quran does say in there to leave Islam for another religion is to get the death penalty. Such a religion of peace huh?

sadsushi on May 15, 2014 at 1:51 PM

I wish somebody would explain to me why the West forbears to visit total nuclear warfare devastation on all muslim nations while we still can

clandestine on May 15, 2014 at 2:09 PM

I guess I really don’t see the difference between this and what I said.

Othniel on May 15, 2014 at 1:25 PM

To me, the difference is that if you believe in Calvinism, you diminish or eliminate the motive for prayer.

Calvinism also skews the definition of God’s sovereignty.

Bigbullets on May 15, 2014 at 2:10 PM

To me, the difference is that if you believe in Calvinism, you diminish or eliminate the motive for prayer.

Calvinism also skews the definition of God’s sovereignty.

Bigbullets on May 15, 2014 at 2:10 PM

I disagree, but that debate won’t be settled this side of eternity, I think. ;)

Othniel on May 15, 2014 at 3:06 PM

Pray for her? Will it be as effective as the prayers for the Nigerian girls?

#Save the Sudanese Christian lady.

Pick one. Same result.

Dan_Yul on May 15, 2014 at 4:35 PM

Got to love religion. No worries. I’m sure the Christian God will save her.

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 9:16 AM

That’s quite reminiscent of

You saved others; save yourself! Come down from the cross!

itsnotaboutme on May 15, 2014 at 4:38 PM

Sudan sentences pregnant Christian to death for apostasy

World Watch says there are actually 10 nations where it’s even more difficult to be a Christian than in the Sudan.

http://blog.opendoorsusa.org/world-watch-list-challenge-11-sudan/

itsnotaboutme on May 15, 2014 at 4:42 PM

“Well, if calvinists disagree with noncalvinists, then that proves that god can’t exist.”

- mazer9

blink on May 15, 2014 at 3:18 PM

It certainly doesn’t help prove your point.

After all I doubt a Calvinist and Non-Calvinist would disagree on a fact like 2+2 = 4.

mazer9 on May 15, 2014 at 5:23 PM

I realize that not everyone here likes Richard Dawkins as much as I do, but surely, even if we don’t all agree on everything, you’ll like him for this.

Tzetzes on May 15, 2014 at 5:27 PM

Vermin. Not a single morsel of food aid, or a single cent of money, should go to help an Islamic country. Unfortunately, wishful thinking in the modern age with our “intellectual and progressive” rulers.

Asurea on May 15, 2014 at 6:54 PM

I’m not trying to get you to convey the full truth to me. I’m just trying to understand how you define truth. Is it, broadly, the age old questions of ‘where did we come from’ and ‘what’s the point of everything’ and ‘what does it all mean’? Or is it a bit more specific such as ‘what does god want’ or ‘how should we live our lives’ or ‘what is right and wrong’?

blink on May 15, 2014 at 3:16 PM

I was speaking of seeking the truth regarding the existence and nature of God. Truth with regard to that question and questions involving the nature of being (“what am I?”) are not things we are likely to figure out through conversation and reading books. They cannot be calculated, yet they still have true answers, though those answers may not be able to be put into words.

BTW, have I told you I like your moniker? It’s the name of my favorite Doctor Who episode, with one of my favorite monsters.

“I don’t know what stopped you talking, but I can guess. They’re coming. The Angels are coming for you. But listen. Your life could depend on this. Don’t blink. Don’t even blink. Blink and you’re dead. They are fast. Faster than you can believe. Don’t turn your back. Don’t look away, and don’t blink.”

fadetogray on May 15, 2014 at 9:22 PM

fadetogray on May 15, 2014 at 9:22 PM

That’s odd. I set the link to start the video at the 3:34 mark, and it worked right in the preview, but now it starts at the beginning.

fadetogray on May 15, 2014 at 9:29 PM

You must be the worst debater on Hot Air today. People disagree on characterizing the mechanism associated with the siphon. That doesn’t mean that a siphon doesn’t work. People disagree on characterizing the mechanisms associated with lift. That doesn’t mean that aircraft don’t fly. People disagree on the cause of JFK’s assassination. That doesn’t mean that he’s not dead.

Stop trying to throw rocks at the lions. Let smart people do it instead.

blink on May 15, 2014 at 6:37 PM

More like throwing rocks at self-professed “sheep”.

People also once believed the earth was flat.

mazer9 on May 16, 2014 at 7:17 AM

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