Lavrov accuses US of employing mercenaries in eastern Ukraine

posted at 12:11 pm on May 14, 2014 by Ed Morrissey

During the Cold War, the Soviets used a propaganda technique best described by the psychological term projection. Whenever the US exposed the Soviet use of a particular illegal tactic or strategy, the Soviets would always respond that it was the US employing that particular violation, and that the Soviets opposed it and demanded a stop to it. This turned out to be a rather successful propaganda ploy, as it enabled all of the moral relativists to keep insisting that there was no qualitative difference across the Iron Curtain, and that the sooner we admitted that, the better we would be able to live in peaceful coexistence.

Happy days are here again:

Russian Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov said Wednesday that Russia has “very strong” suspicions U.S. mercenaries are operating in Ukraine.

In an interview with Bloomberg News, Lavrov said he relayed a message to Washington asking for a response to these rumors, which were first reported by a German newspaper.

Lavrov referred to people in Ukraine wearing black uniforms with no identification, who some think are affiliated with the radical ultranationalist group the Right Sector. He also referred to reports that 400 mercenaries are operating in Ukraine.

“I sent a message from ambassador to Washington asking him to respond to these assertions from the German media,” he said. “Rumors to this effect were spread even before and [Secretary of State] John Kerry rejected them. Now they popped up again, and we’d like to see whether this is true or not.”

Let’s not forget that Vladimir Putin already admitted that the insignia-free uniformed troops in Crimea were Russian military, despite earlier denials. The so-called “pro-Russian separatists” in eastern Ukraine are widely believed to be of similar origin, as is their source of weaponry and leadership. This attempt by Lavrov to pass off opposing militias as American mercenaries is rather laughable, but uncomfortably … nostalgic.

Ukraine’s political class met today to hash out an end to the crisis, and they pointedly did not include the aforementioned “pro-Russian separatists” to participate:

Ukrainian politicians and civil groups gathered on Wednesday for talks on how to quell a pro-Russian rebellion in the east, but Kiev’s refusal to let separatists take part cast doubt on whether the meeting could defuse the crisis.

The talks come at a tense moment for Kiev. On Tuesday, seven soldiers were killed in an ambush near the eastern city of Kramatorsk, the deadliest attack on security forces since they were sent to tackle the uprising in April. …

Participants are expected to explore methods of devolving power to allow greater local autonomy which Kiev hopes will address disaffection in eastern Ukraine.

However, Kiev has excluded rebels, whom it terms as “terrorists”, from the round table discussions, drawing criticism from abroad. Moscow has said there should be direct talks between separatists and Kiev.

“We are ready for talks with everyone who has legitimate political goals and is ready to pursue them by legal means, with those who do not have blood on their hands,” acting President Oleksander Turchinov and Prime Minister Arseny Yatseniuk said in a joint statement.

Perhaps they are considering the use of the election as a moot for the referenda. They could just ignore the rogue vote from last Sunday, which most nations have already done, and hope that the national election on May 25th eclipses them. If the government in Kyiv can manage to hold a reasonably competent election under the circumstances and have local and regional governments elected that work toward integration rather than secession, it would be a powerful answer to the rebels and their provocateurs.

That’s a mighty big if, though, and it doesn’t mean that the rebels will go away either. Expect them to disrupt the elections as much as possible, unless the Kyiv government can retake control over the Luhansk and Donetsk regions. But perhaps Russia has begun to question whether it has gone too far already. The chair of the Russian Duma wants the May 25th elections to go forward, even if troubles arise:

But Lavrov, in an interview with Bloomberg Television, also said Russia has “no intention” of sending troops into Ukraine, despite fears in Europe and the West that it might invade following Ukraine’s presidential and mayoral elections scheduled for May 25.

A top Russian legislator spoke out Wednesday in favor of the elections, even as questions remained over whether they would be allowed to proceed in swaths of eastern Ukraine that called this week for annexation by Russia.

Duma Chairman Sergei Naryshkin told Russian television that voting in Ukraine would lack full legitimacy but that “not holding the elections is even a sadder situation,” the Interfax news agency reported.

We’ll see what they say if the results favor Kyiv, or if voter intimidation turns out to be so bad in these regions that it provides a pretext for rejection or action.

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Nobody does crazy like the Russians.

coolrepublica on May 14, 2014 at 12:14 PM

Nobody does crazy like the Russians.

coolrepublica on May 14, 2014 at 12:14 PM

Debbie Wasserman Schultz is Russian?

Happy Nomad on May 14, 2014 at 12:17 PM

Somewhere out there Baghdad Bob is smiling.

Copperwood on May 14, 2014 at 12:17 PM

Don’t be silly. Y’all can fight back.

rogerb on May 14, 2014 at 12:18 PM

During the Cold War, the Soviets used a propaganda technique best described by the psychological term projection. …Let’s not forget that Vladimir Putin already admitted that the insignia-free uniformed troops in Crimea were Russian military, despite earlier denials. The so-called “pro-Russian separatists” in eastern Ukraine are widely believed to be of similar origin, as is their source of weaponry and leadership.

They use the technique because it works. And then when they ‘fess up it works even better because the useful idiots say: See? They’re more honest than our government! And there are a lot of useful idiots.

Fenris on May 14, 2014 at 12:18 PM

Both Romney and Palin called this. The media was kissing obama’s fourth point of contact over his restrained rhetoric complete lack of foreign policy intelligence, but Romney and Palin both called it.

This moron obama made this mess.

hawkdriver on May 14, 2014 at 12:19 PM

coolrepublica on May 14, 2014 at 12:14 PM

What you said ….

Chuck Ef on May 14, 2014 at 12:19 PM

Commies and liberals always tell you exactly what they are doing by what they accuse YOU of doing..they are so predictable in this way, wish our “representatives” would know this basic lesson about their opposition. They are constantly telegraphing to all exactly what they are up to at all times…

Alinsky on May 14, 2014 at 12:19 PM

Lemme see if I got this right.

A bunch of apparently well-trained guys (with no uniforms yet have serious firepower) start showing up all over the place and they all wear masks.

Our putative adversary accuses them of being ours, with no way to show he’s wrong.

Our lyin king gubmint denies it or ridicules it and everybody quietly laughs at its pretentiousness.

Is that about right?

platypus on May 14, 2014 at 12:21 PM

A better use of funds would simply be to pay the Ukrainian army to protect themselves.

Give them a loan or the money in exchange for some trade concessions. Then help them drive the russians out.

Why do I want something in return? Because intervention is only sustainable if you get something out of it to pay for what you put into it.

And by something out, I mean something that is like what we put into it.

We invest blood and treasure in these things. I want blood and treasure out of it.

Karmashock on May 14, 2014 at 12:21 PM

Lemme see if I got this right.

A bunch of apparently well-trained guys (with no uniforms yet have serious firepower) start showing up all over the place and they all wear masks.

Our putative adversary accuses them of being ours, with no way to show he’s wrong.

Our lyin king gubmint denies it or ridicules it and everybody quietly laughs at its pretentiousness.

Is that about right?

You forgot the part where the rat-eared wonder takes a selfie of him holding a sign reading #H8N Putin.

Happy Nomad on May 14, 2014 at 12:25 PM

How ironic that the Russians are resorting to using a favorite and common tactic of the progressives….projection.

I suppose, in response, the Obama Administration will find another friend of a friend of Putin to slap some phony sanctions on — and then spend the rest of the week patting themselves on the back for being so ‘decisive’.

Feckless and incompetent doesn’t come close to describing this Administration’s pathetic foreign policy.

Athos on May 14, 2014 at 12:25 PM

Not Russian “propaganda,” yo. The German press has reported U.S., E.U. funded mercenary boots on the ground in Ukraine since before the Maiden protests produced its coup.

CIA, FBI and Now Academi Mercenaries on the Ground in Ukraine

casuist on May 14, 2014 at 12:25 PM

Oh, wait, here’s the official response from the State Department…

No, we’re not. #stopbeingmeantous

Fear the hashtag…

Athos on May 14, 2014 at 12:26 PM

platypus on May 14, 2014 at 12:21 PM

If we had enough guts and common sense to engage Russia at their own game and start fighting back, I’d be nothing but relieved. If anybody is hiring mercs to help reclaim Donetsk I doubt it’s us.

More likely this is another load of crap from the one guy in the world who could challenge Jay Carney for the WBC lightweight title in puking out lies. I haven’t researched, but I’ll gladly bet that the “German paper” on this is something affiliated with Die Linke – moonbat German leftists who have been stroking Putin every step of the way on this, right down to the claim that Yatsenyuk & co are a fascist coup.

Gingotts on May 14, 2014 at 12:28 PM

Blackwater denies boots on ground in Ukraine. When asked later they refused to comment because there are lots of Blackwater subcontracters with exposure in Ukraine, yo.

US Contractor Greystone Denies Its ‘Mercenaries’ in Ukraine

Perhaps the U.S. media will stop publishing U.S. State Department talking points and actually investigate what is happening on the ground in Ukraine. It could happen.

casuist on May 14, 2014 at 12:29 PM

Our lyin king gubmint denies it or ridicules it and everybody quietly laughs at its pretentiousness.

Is that about right?

platypus on May 14, 2014 at 12:21 PM

Are you actually suggesting that the US would employ Private Military Contractors? /sarc

sharrukin on May 14, 2014 at 12:30 PM

Here’s another story since HOTAIR has once again taken up the White House line… again:

Has Blackwater been deployed to Ukraine? Notorious U.S. mercenaries ‘seen on the streets of flashpoint city’ as Russia claims 300 hired guns have arrived in country

It’s getting really hard to find genuine conservative voices on the web any more, yo.

casuist on May 14, 2014 at 12:31 PM

There’s also this, yo:

CIA, FBI agents ‘advising Ukraine government’: report

AFP Berlin.

casuist on May 14, 2014 at 12:34 PM

Pot, meet bong… eh, kettle. Of course we employ mercenaries in Ukraine, you Commie dolt – and so do you.

Rix on May 14, 2014 at 12:34 PM

there is no video under the happy days sentence, just large white spot that looked like there was supposed to be embed item there.

dmacleo on May 14, 2014 at 12:37 PM

We should never have trusted the EastAsians EurAsians.

connertown on May 14, 2014 at 12:37 PM

Where’s Curtis LeMay when you need him?

Ward Cleaver on May 14, 2014 at 12:37 PM

Do not expect any in-depth reporting by CNN, the BBC, France 24, Fox News, or their ilk about the murder of unarmed civilians in Ukraine by the Yatsenyuk regime. These media networks are conducting an information war against any countries and governments opposed to the US and its allies. Instead of reporting what is actually taking place, the mainstream media in North America and the European Union will continue distorting the truth by blaming Russia and those Ukrainians that it deceivingly, as a means of refusing to acknowledge their legitimate opposition and resistance to the illegal regime in Kiev.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/welcome-to-nulandistan-a-videographic-essay-of-what-the-us-and-eu-have-unleashed-on-ukraine/5381838

roflmmfao

donabernathy on May 14, 2014 at 12:37 PM

Oh, wait, here’s the official response from the State Department…

No, we’re not. #stopbeingmeantous

Fear the hashtag…

Athos on May 14, 2014 at 12:26 PM

+7%…!

Seven Percent Solution on May 14, 2014 at 12:38 PM

Biden son’s appointment to Ukraine gas company raises no conflict of interest, White House says

The White House on Tuesday brushed aside questions about whether the involvement of Vice President Joe Biden’s son in a Ukrainian natural gas company raised ethical issues at a time when the administration is promoting energy diversity in the country.

R. Hunter Biden, a lawyer and a partner in an investment firm, was recently named to the board of directors of Burisma Holdings, a private company that has drilled for natural gas in Ukraine since 2002.

In a statement on Burisma’s website, Hunter Biden said he would help the company with “transparency, corporate governance and responsibility, international expansion,” and other issues.

Natural gas has been a central issue in recent tensions between Russia and Ukraine. Ukraine depends on Russia for most of its natural gas, and has accused Moscow of hiking natural gas prices as punishment for moving closer to the European Union.

In April, the vice president traveled to Kiev and discussed how the United States could help provide technical expertise for expanding domestic production of natural gas.

Asked by a reporter whether Hunter Biden’s appointment to the company presented a conflict, White House spokesman Jay Carney said it did not.

“Hunter Biden and other members of the Biden family are obviously private citizens, and where they work does not reflect an endorsement by the administration or by the vice president or president,” Carney said during a briefing.

Kendra Barkoff, a spokeswoman for Vice President Biden, said he “does not endorse any particular company and has no involvement with this company.”

The head of a watchdog group on government ethics said there was no inherent conflict in Biden’s job.

“It can’t be that because your dad is the vice president, you can’t do anything,” said Melanie Sloan, executive director of Citizens for Responsibility and Ethics in Washington.

Financial conflict of interest laws and regulations for government officials do not apply to the president and vice president, explained Richard Painter, who was chief ethics lawyer for former Republican President George W. Bush from 2005 until 2007.

Even if they did apply, the laws do not extend to the financial interests of officials’ grown children, he said.

“It’s very clear the statute does not cover this, even if the statute applied to the vice president,” said Painter, now at the University of Minnesota Law School.

Regulations do require government officials to recuse themselves on decisions where their family members are a party, or representing a party, he said.

In any case, Painter said he does not believe that Biden, who plays a central foreign policy role at the White House, should step back from working on issues affecting energy in Ukraine for appearance’s sake.

But it would have been preferable for the vice president had his son avoided the matter altogether, or decided to step down, Painter said.

“If I had been the lawyer for the vice president, I would have said, ‘Try to get your son to get off that board,’” Painter said.

Akzed on May 14, 2014 at 12:39 PM

There’s also this, yo:
CIA, FBI agents ‘advising Ukraine government’: report

AFP Berlin.
casuist on May 14, 2014 at 12:34 PM

Casuit are you one of members if the Russian comment army I hear about. I don’t care either or, but by the 3rd post about blackwater in Ukraine it started getting suspicious. Lol

coolrepublica on May 14, 2014 at 12:41 PM

For starters

Schadenfreude on May 14, 2014 at 12:41 PM


Do not expect any in-depth reporting by CNN, the BBC, France 24, Fox News, or their ilk about the murder of unarmed civilians in Ukraine by the Yatsenyuk regime.

Here is Yatsenyuk at a Right Sector rally with straight arm salute, yo. This is the man that @JohnCarry and @BarackObama and HotAir support.

The U.S. political right on the question of Ukraine has been completely co-opted in way that it wasn’t when the question was Syria and the chemical weapons false flag, yo. We are so doomed.

casuist on May 14, 2014 at 12:42 PM

Akzed on May 14, 2014 at 12:39 PM

That’s just one of many problems exacerbated by a bloated government. In theory, grown children shouldn’t have any restrictions placed on them just because their relatives are powerful government officials. And if our government was properly sized then there would be no difference between theory and practice.

Fenris on May 14, 2014 at 12:44 PM

Useful idiot Kerry is focused on this.

He is the official tool of the UN now. One can’t make this up in the best of fiction.

Schadenfreude on May 14, 2014 at 12:48 PM

Hunter Biden gets Ukraine, and…

David Richter, the president of Hill International, a mid-sized outfit that manages construction projects, was speaking last year at a private meeting with investors when he was asked about the recent success of his newest subsidiary, HillStone International.

How was it that HillStone, a newcomer in the business of home building, landed a massive and potentially lucrative contract to build 100,000 homes in war-torn Iraq?

Richter didn’t mince words. It really helps, he said, to have “the brother of the vice president as a partner,” according to a person who was present.

The “brother” Richter was referring to during the meeting is James Biden, the younger brother of Vice President Joe Biden.

Akzed on May 14, 2014 at 12:48 PM

Lavrov is a serious man. I am more apt to believe him than anything from someone in the Obama administration.

higgins1991 on May 14, 2014 at 12:52 PM


Lavrov is a serious man. I am more apt to believe him than anything from someone in the Obama administration.

I don’t believe any diplomat, yo. But Lavrov can run circles around any member of #TeamSmartPower (Obama Brennan Dempsey Kerry Biden Breedlove). Wish we had a Lavrov on our side but if we did we would never have funded the disintegration of Ukraine.

casuist on May 14, 2014 at 1:07 PM


Casuit are you one of members if the Russian comment army I hear about.

Not Russian. My usual line is get attacked for being a “truecon” because I absolutely opposed the GOP Romney nomination. I was right about that too by the way.

casuist on May 14, 2014 at 1:09 PM

Obama promised Putin he’d be more flexible after the 2012 election. Maybe he should take a suggestion from Lavrov and send mercenaries to eastern Ukraine…

Steve Z on May 14, 2014 at 1:10 PM

Never trust the Russians or treat them as friend or allies… They are not… They were, are, and will be always our enemy… A super paranoid people that will always belong to the third world on every level…

mnjg on May 14, 2014 at 1:15 PM

Some of our commentators here cannot separate our national security interests from the idiot who is our President… Because they hate Obama then they side with the f***ing Russians our enemies and believe every lie the Russians have… These commentators are useful idiots, they have no dignity and no patriotism… F*** you who ever you are…

mnjg on May 14, 2014 at 1:19 PM

Some of our commentators here cannot separate our national security interests from the idiot who is our President…

mnjg on May 14, 2014 at 1:19 PM

So what is the national security interest in the Ukraine?

sharrukin on May 14, 2014 at 1:21 PM


Some of our commentators here cannot separate our national security interests from the idiot who is our President… Because they hate Obama then they side with the f***ing Russians our enemies and believe every lie the Russians have… These commentators are useful idiots, they have no dignity and no patriotism… F*** you who ever you are…

If your “patriotism” places you on the same side as Soros and Omidyar–the “progressive” billionaires who financed the turmoil in Ukraine–then there is something painfully wrong with your “patriotism.”

We have no national security interest in Ukraine. None. Not a thing.

casuist on May 14, 2014 at 1:27 PM

So what is the national security interest in the Ukraine?

sharrukin on May 14, 2014 at 1:21 PM

Russia expansion is against our national security interest… If the Russian are trying to take over a country we should stop them…

mnjg on May 14, 2014 at 1:40 PM

If your “patriotism” places you on the same side as Soros and Omidyar–the “progressive” billionaires who financed the turmoil in Ukraine–then there is something painfully wrong with your “patriotism.”

We have no national security interest in Ukraine. None. Not a thing.

casuist on May 14, 2014 at 1:27 PM

Once you quote the WND then you are finished and you should be only subject to scorn and mockery…

mnjg on May 14, 2014 at 1:41 PM


Once you quote the WND then you are finished and you should be only subject to scorn and mockery…

Fine. Whatever. You can select whatever source you want to verify the same facts: google or or .

casuist on May 14, 2014 at 1:47 PM

“The context of the videos is not clear, but it appears that the armed men had turned up at a street protest against the new regime. They wander around brandishing their weapons before suddenly fleeing the scene as passers-by shout ‘Blackwater! Blackwater!’”

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2576490/Are-Blackwater-active-Ukraine-Videos-spark-talk-U-S-mercenary-outfit-deployed-Donetsk.html

Viator on May 14, 2014 at 1:51 PM


Russia expansion is against our national security interest… If the Russian are trying to take over a country we should stop them…

They weren’t “expanding” before the U.S. State Department conspired with Soros, Omidyar, and the E.U., to overthrow the government in Ukraine and throw the region into chaos. Here is the WSJ on the move by the Yanukovych government that so enraged Soros, the U.S, and the E.U. (WSJ is an OK source, right?) WE WERE ATTEMPTING TO EXPAND OUR INFLUENCE, NOT RUSSIA.

casuist on May 14, 2014 at 1:52 PM

Irony and Goebbels alert

Schadenfreude on May 14, 2014 at 1:53 PM

Nobody does crazy like the Russians.

coolrepublica on May 14, 2014 at 12:14 PM

There ain’t nuttin’ crazy about the Russkies.

Here’s a quote from Robert Frost: “A liberal is a man too broadminded to take his own side in a quarrel.”

Putin and gang know exactly what they’re doing becaused they’ve zeroed in on the very existential weakness Frost notes. How can we defend (or decide not to) Ukraine when we can’t even decide what our own interests are?

dreadnought62 on May 14, 2014 at 1:54 PM

Once you quote the WND then you are finished and you should be only subject to scorn and mockery…

Let me try this again. Pointy-brackets disappeared:

Fine. Whatever. You can select whatever source you want to verify the same facts: google “Soros Ukraine” or “Omidyar Ukraine” or “Soros Omidyar Ukraine.”

casuist on May 14, 2014 at 1:54 PM


Putin and gang know exactly what they’re doing becaused they’ve zeroed in on the very existential weakness Frost notes. How can we defend (or decide not to) Ukraine when we can’t even decide what our own interests are?

No. We know exactly what our interests are. Here is what started it all, yo, and it wasn’t the freakin’ Russians: Unfortunately so do the Russians: Ukraine finally signs the EU deal that started it all

Today’s agreement between Brussels and Kiev is a version of the one Yanukovych originally rejected four months ago, precipitating the crisis with Russia.

casuist on May 14, 2014 at 1:57 PM

Russia expansion is against our national security interest… If the Russian are trying to take over a country we should stop them…

mnjg on May 14, 2014 at 1:40 PM

So it boils down to disliking Russia, but nothing beyond that?

That doesn’t amount to any national interest, just a personal distaste on your part for one nation.

sharrukin on May 14, 2014 at 2:00 PM

mnjg on May 14, 2014 at 1:19 PM

Statist pig.

Akzed on May 14, 2014 at 2:10 PM

No. We know exactly what our interests are.

casuist on May 14, 2014 at 1:57 PM

All of our experiences as of late in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba, China, North Korea, India, Pakistan, Russia, Ukraine, Poland, etc. indicate otherwise.

Our nation is strategically adrift. I wish I could remember the exact quote, but one of my lecturers at the Naval War College said something to the effect that our country no longer produces strategic thinkers (actually, we do, but they just don’t get promoted or elected to high levels). Having sat through enough crappy theater-level briefs, I can tell you that this is the case. It’s why we pour buckets of money into dungholes like Iraq and Afghanistan without any clue as to what we hope to achieve. It’s why Juan Muchacho McCain wants to take on everyone everywhere. If you haven’t defined your interests, then every conflict is equally good or bad.

Oh, and yo. Nothing like tossing “yo” into the argument to lend it that gravitas so missing into today’s discourse.

dreadnought62 on May 14, 2014 at 2:13 PM

Once you quote the WND then you are finished and you should be only subject to scorn and mockery… mnjg

You’re in some lousy company.

Akzed on May 14, 2014 at 2:14 PM

Oh, and yo. Nothing like tossing “yo” into the argument to lend it that gravitas so missing into today’s discourse. dreadnought62 on May 14, 2014 at 2:13 PM

Good call. “Bitches” is good for that too.

Akzed on May 14, 2014 at 2:15 PM

It is starting to seem like Obama and Mccain must get together and throw darts at a world map to determine which world problems can be solved with another drone strike or military invasion. The US MSM is absent in questiong the rationale on any of these things, including Ukraine.

Resolute on May 14, 2014 at 2:37 PM


All of our experiences as of late in Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Venezuela, Cuba, China, North Korea, India, Pakistan, Russia, Ukraine, Poland, etc. indicate otherwise.

I concede your point with respect to your every example. Ukraine, however, is a different story. EU-US Soros-Omidyar activity can be traced to a single cause: http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2014/0321/Ukraine-finally-signs-the-EU-deal-that-started-it-all We want to expand EU, NATO. Russia would prefer that we did not. Our idiot elites believed that Russia would respond to our expansionist adventures lying down. They did not, yo.

casuist on May 14, 2014 at 2:41 PM

It could not be more clear that these Russian former communists studied the EXACT same playbook as our American communists (who pretend that they aren’t).

This tactic: Always accuse you opponent of doing what you yourself are doing.

How many times have we heard the Dems pull that one?

makattak on May 14, 2014 at 2:45 PM

Russia expansion is against our national security interest… If the Russian are trying to take over a country we should stop them…

mnjg on May 14, 2014 at 1:40 PM

“Our” interest? You’re delusional.

vlad martel on May 14, 2014 at 2:47 PM


It could not be more clear that these Russian former communists studied the EXACT same playbook as our American communists (who pretend that they aren’t).

No. You’re quite wrong as always. The Russians revised their “playbook” to account for changing conditions. Here is but one report, yo:

Russia’s New Generation Warfare in Ukraine: Implications for Latvian Defense Policy

Read it and weep bitter tears of regret for your ignorance. But this is beside the point. The point is this: We have no business in Ukraine.

casuist on May 14, 2014 at 2:49 PM

Wouldn’t you give anything if one of our guys would have the nads to say, “OK, you have your strong suspicions, and we have video, and intercepted audio recordings of YOUR mercenaries. Now shut the F*** up, and PULL YOUR DA*N MERCENARIES OUT!”

Dirty Creature on May 14, 2014 at 2:50 PM

I concede your point with respect to your every example. Ukraine, however, is a different story. EU-US Soros-Omidyar activity can be traced to a single cause: http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Europe/2014/0321/Ukraine-finally-signs-the-EU-deal-that-started-it-all We want to expand EU, NATO. Russia would prefer that we did not. Our idiot elites believed that Russia would respond to our expansionist adventures lying down. They did not, yo.

casuist on May 14, 2014 at 2:41 PM

Just to be clear, I wasn’t taking exception to your observations on our role in Ukraine. Like you I don’t see how a virtually indefensible piece of land that has proximity and cultural importance to the Russians can possibly be a good place to confront them. As with most of Obama’s foreign policy, we appear reckless and weak simultaneously with our intemperate language coupled with physical inactivity.

My broader point is that we have no defined overarching national interest. Perhaps it is in our interest to curb nascent Russian expansionism, but, if that is the case, I don’t see any of the activities you’d expect: diplomats scurrying to Georgia and Armenia, military delegations flying to Mongolia and Tajikistan, politicians making the case for redeployment of assets to eastern Europe. Nothing. But then again, that is what you’d expect from Profiles in Hashtag Courage.

dreadnought62 on May 14, 2014 at 3:13 PM

Ukraine Seeks to Raise $1 Billion Through Sale of U.S.-Backed Bonds–that’s right, boys and girls. U.S. taxpayers are now bailing out George Soros’ newest acquisition, Ukraine.

casuist on May 14, 2014 at 3:14 PM


My broader point is that we have no defined overarching national interest.

I concede your point. Forgive me for the misunderstanding.

casuist on May 14, 2014 at 3:16 PM

I concede your point. Forgive me for the misunderstanding.

casuist on May 14, 2014 at 3:16 PM

Nothing to forgive. These forums don’t really lend themselves to thoughtful discussion given the need to be brief. And then, of course, once the name calling starts…well, the Oxford Union Society this ain’t.

dreadnought62 on May 14, 2014 at 3:21 PM

All I have to say if the Europeans don’t get of the damn rear ends stop trying to attempting befriend the Russian bear, they are are going all end up being Russian satellite states. For a time it looked like democracy might even work in the former Soviet Union. Today, no one dares to challenge Putin and his thugs. If they do so, they are hauled off to jail on trumped up charges. Their businesses confiscated and if they attempt to speak too much they are killed.

SC.Charlie on May 14, 2014 at 4:03 PM

We should never have trusted the EastAsians EurAsians.

connertown on May 14, 2014 at 12:37 PM

Sadly, with both Russia and China exploiting weakness to push territorial claims, we may be confronting EastAsia and EurAsia at the same time. (Winston will have a lot of 2008 and 20012 rhetoric to drop down the memory hole won’t he?)

KW64 on May 14, 2014 at 4:04 PM

No. You’re quite wrong as always. The Russians revised their “playbook” to account for changing conditions. Here is but one report, yo:

Russia’s New Generation Warfare in Ukraine: Implications for Latvian Defense Policy

Read it and weep bitter tears of regret for your ignorance. But this is beside the point. The point is this: We have no business in Ukraine.

casuist on May 14, 2014 at 2:49 PM

Err… I made no comment on the appropriateness of intervention in the Ukraine. Not sure why the vitriol. (Unless, of course, that was humor, in which case I apologize for my denseness.)

In any case, that they updated their playbook is no indication that they haven’t studied the same playbook that the Dems use.

makattak on May 14, 2014 at 4:06 PM

Here’s the thing. Why wouldn’t Lavrov say that? What exactly should stop him? The US is trying to claim that it has vital interests there, and nobody is interested in further nuances.

I’m a bit tired of hearing how bad the Russians are. They are behaving badly, no doubt. But we have no control over the content of Lavrov’s speeches. We do have control over what the US government does in response, or such is the often-made claim. Can we discuss what we want or do not want to do?

Borders in Europe are now changed by force, and the US is not involved in any meaningful way. This is quite novel, and none cares.

PBH on May 14, 2014 at 4:21 PM

ReformedDecepiCon, I clicked on your link. Some of the responses totally repulsed me. Especially one poster who said that he/she was an American living in Europe and hoped that all 400 of the so-called mercenaries were rounded up killed and hung from a bridge. The true definition of a mercenary is someone who will fight for any side in any conflict as long as they get paid a bit more. Do you really think that these soldiers can be bought off by the Russian side? Most of these private military units that are used by our military and corporations are former members of our special forces units. If they are there, I wish them the best in countering Putin and his thugs.

SC.Charlie on May 14, 2014 at 5:25 PM

How many Russian trolls do we have on this thread?

Count to 10 on May 14, 2014 at 6:29 PM

Calling these people “separatists” is a joke. Even the the real local ones are Russian partisans looking to help the motherland in conquest.

Count to 10 on May 14, 2014 at 6:32 PM

SC.Charlie on May 14, 2014 at 5:25 PM

So according to the article Blackwater is there and they are fighting against the separatists, and as you say they are predominately former US special forces. So if it is true, Lavrov is not wrong is he.

ReformedDeceptiCon on May 14, 2014 at 7:03 PM

So according to the article Blackwater is there and they are fighting against the separatists, and as you say they are predominately former US special forces. So if it is true, Lavrov is not wrong is he. –
ReformedDeceptiCon on May 14, 2014 at 7:03 PM

First Blackwater no longer exists. Look it up. I could not care if Lavrov is wrong or not. I oppose Putin and his gang of thugs. I guess that you don’t care that Russia is using their special forces to infiltrate the sovereign nation of Ukraine and aid the separatists?

SC.Charlie on May 14, 2014 at 7:31 PM

Calling these people “separatists” is a joke. Even the the real local ones are Russian partisans looking to help the motherland in conquest. – Count to 10 on May 14, 2014 at 6:32 PM

Anybody who knows anything about computers know that the Russian mafia is behind a lot of computer hacking for money. And, the Russian government looks the other way, as long as the government gets its cut.

SC.Charlie on May 14, 2014 at 7:37 PM

Calling these people “separatists” is a joke. Even the the real local ones are Russian partisans looking to help the motherland in conquest. – Count to 10 on May 14, 2014 at 6:32 PM

Anybody who knows anything about computers know that the Russian mafia is behind a lot of computer hacking for money. And, the Russian government looks the other way, as long as the government gets its cut.

SC.Charlie on May 14, 2014 at 7:39 PM

How many Russian trolls do we have on this thread?

Count to 10 on May 14, 2014 at 6:29 PM

Some of these days I wonder how many HA IDs are paid to comment.

slickwillie2001 on May 14, 2014 at 8:13 PM

First Blackwater no longer exists. Look it up. I could not care if Lavrov is wrong or not. I oppose Putin and his gang of thugs. I guess that you don’t care that Russia is using their special forces to infiltrate the sovereign nation of Ukraine and aid the separatists?

SC.Charlie on May 14, 2014 at 7:31 PM

Do I care? As a human I care that people are living in unrest and are suffering and dying. Damn right I care.

Do I think we should be involved? An emphatic NO!

Do I think we are involved? Absolutely. We always get involved, first through clandestine operations and then often through overt force.

Will Putin try to keep going and reconstitute the Soviet empire? Maybe but he will bankrupt his fragile economy trying. I would prefer we not bankrupt ours trying to stop him and every other thug who tries to create regional hegemony through force.

I would prefer we De-leveraged ourselves from the rest of the world with a national policy of energy independence. That is our only interest in any of this, the gas pipeline.

ReformedDeceptiCon on May 14, 2014 at 8:42 PM

Casuit are you one of members if the Russian comment army I hear about. I don’t care either or, but by the 3rd post about blackwater in Ukraine it started getting suspicious. Lol

coolrepublica on May 14, 2014 at 12:41 PM

So now it’s “suspicious” to call attention to facts?

That’s understandable, given how damning the facts are.

Just a reminder: Ukraine had a legitimate, democratically elected government. After it preferred a Russian trade offer to an EU trade deal (just because Putin offered more money), the EU and America supported a fascist coup that deprived Eastern Ukrainians of their rights. That’s when all the trouble started. Up to then Putin was doing nothing but match the EU offer for offer.

Ordinary voters who voted for the overthrown democratic order are still being deprived of their rights, which is why they are not happy campers.

Unless you think it’s right for people to be deprived of their democratic rights and put under the boot-heels of fascists, criminal oligarchs and mercenaries, there’s nothing good about the Kiev junta. It’s not legitimate.

David Blue on May 15, 2014 at 6:11 AM

Our nation is strategically adrift. I wish I could remember the exact quote, but one of my lecturers at the Naval War College said something to the effect that our country no longer produces strategic thinkers (actually, we do, but they just don’t get promoted or elected to high levels).

dreadnought62 on May 14, 2014 at 2:13 PM

The Tragedy of Great Power Politics, by John Mearsheimer: strategic adrift-ness problem solved.

Or it would be, except that you’re right. Anyone who thinks strategically is locked out of the Beltway consensus.

And it’s not just the Beltway: the deliberate ignorance spreads from the top.

Having sat through enough crappy theater-level briefs, I can tell you that this is the case.

dreadnought62 on May 14, 2014 at 2:13 PM

I believe you.

David Blue on May 15, 2014 at 6:24 AM

This kind of operation does not work out for the best in the long run, unless you think Iran is a nice, friendly country.

At least Eisenhower, who definitely did know strategy, had the excuse that we had not played this game out before, and nobody knew how it would end when America knocked over the democratically elected government of Mohammad Mosaddeq in Iran in 1953. And at the time the Russians were Soviet and Communist, so doing anything that might annoy them, even if it involved smashing democracy, had a partial justification.

The breaking of democratic Ukraine is worse.

And so is the mass media consensus behind doubling down on this and fighting a Cold War II over America’s nonexistent vital interest in dominating Eastern Ukraine, Crimea and Sevastopol.

David Blue on May 15, 2014 at 6:35 AM

If only.

tree hugging sister on May 15, 2014 at 9:33 AM

Just a reminder: Ukraine had a legitimate, democratically elected government. After it preferred a Russian trade offer to an EU trade deal (just because Putin offered more money), the EU and America supported a fascist coup that deprived Eastern Ukrainians of their rights. That’s when all the trouble started. Up to then Putin was doing nothing but match the EU offer for offer.

Ordinary voters who voted for the overthrown democratic order are still being deprived of their rights, which is why they are not happy campers.

Unless you think it’s right for people to be deprived of their democratic rights and put under the boot-heels of fascists, criminal oligarchs and mercenaries, there’s nothing good about the Kiev junta. It’s not legitimate.

David Blue on May 15, 2014 at 6:11 AM

Ah… it’s refreshing to see Russian apologists. I haven’t seen this kind of dissembling in support of a Russian regime since I was a child.

a legitimate, democratically elected government

Well, two out of three ain’t bad. It was a puppet regime. The previous president calling for an invasion of Ukraine by Russia doesn’t really sound like the words of a patriot, huh?

the EU and America supported a fascist coup that deprived Eastern Ukrainians of their rights

For a superpower, we really must suck at logistical support. Did you see the “weapons” that “coup” had? I guess maybe we’re finally becoming budget conscious.

Up to then Putin was doing nothing but match the EU offer for offer.

See, he’s PERFECTLY reasonable! And once he doesn’t get what he wants from his client, he’ll take it by force.

Because he’s a reasonable dictator errr… statesman.

makattak on May 15, 2014 at 10:08 AM