Shocking new study: relaxing marijuana laws leads to increased marijuana consumption

posted at 6:01 pm on May 12, 2014 by Kevin Glass

Over the past ten years, 21 states and the District of Columbia have approved use of medical marijuana, and a new study out today through the National Bureau of Economic Research finds – shockingly – that the relaxation of medical marijuana laws leads to increased consumption of marijuana. Additionally and connected to this result, the authors report that relaxation of medical marijuana laws also lead to a rise in binge drinking among those of legal drinking age.

The problematic aspect here is that the increase in use of marijuana following medicinal laws also has led to an increase in abuse and dependency. As the authors write:

The effect of MML implementation on marijuana abuse/dependence constitutes a potential public health concern similar to that of prescription drug abuse/dependence (CDC, 2012): even if we assume that the increases in marijuana use we observed come from those who use the drug for validated medical purposes, there may still be possibility that marijuana abuse/dependence would increase as a result of MML implementation.

There’s a long line of argumentation when it comes to drug policy that “prohibition doesn’t work.” This depends on what it means to “work.” What is weird – and wrong – is the suggestion that prohibition does nothing to lower consumption. This new study provides evidence that yes, prohibition does lessen consumption. In this way, prohibition works.

What arguments for legalization have to rely upon is that marijuana isn’t evil – at least, isn’t evil in the way that harder drugs are, or is at least as benign as currently-legal substances like alcohol or nicotine. As Ed reported last month, though, we shouldn’t trick ourselves into thinking that marijuana is actually harmless.

Regardless, with majorities of people for the first time supporting legalization, it’s a drug we might have to become more comfortable with. Medicinal use has become much more common over the last ten years, and we’re starting to see the acceptance of recreational use as well. And make no mistake, the relaxation of marijuana laws will absolutely lead to an increase in marijuana usage. What matters is if that’s something that should be morally acceptable – and that it would be outweighed by some of the horrors of the drug war.


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pssst…don’t tell Mark K Ham or M Malkin….

harlekwin15 on May 12, 2014 at 6:02 PM

Correctamundo!

Tard on May 12, 2014 at 6:03 PM

Well, I never would have guessed! The one thing this doesn’t work with is common sense. You can make plenty of it available but the stupid is strong in so many…

xNavigator on May 12, 2014 at 6:05 PM

Shocking new study: relaxing marijuana immigration laws leads to increased marijuana consumption illegal immigration.

Wigglesworth on May 12, 2014 at 6:06 PM

harlekwin15 on May 12, 2014 at 6:02 PM

Malkin’s a pot-head?

gh on May 12, 2014 at 6:06 PM

Relaxing marijuana laws leads to increased marijuana consumption …

… and an increased incidence of a children and pets being poisoned by the drug. But, who cares, right?

Pork-Chop on May 12, 2014 at 6:07 PM

I’m not so sure there is an increase in use as much as there is an increase in more folks being honest about using marijuana.

iceman1960 on May 12, 2014 at 6:07 PM

What matters is if that’s something that should be morally acceptable – and that it would be outweighed by some of the horrors of the drug war.

Is it up to the law to dictate morality? Last I checked, lying, adultery and gluttony are all immoral, do we need a war on them also?

trubble on May 12, 2014 at 6:08 PM

Has the child nonpartisan weighed in yet?

Bmore on May 12, 2014 at 6:08 PM

And yet in Colorado between January 1 and April 30 homicide is down 52%, sexual assault down 13.6%, robbery down 4.8%, aggravated assault down 3.7%. In fact, crime is down in *every* category, except 2, Arson 27 additional crimes and Larceny (except theft from motor vehicles) up by 154. Nearly all violent crimes are significantly down and crime overall is down 5%. So I guess increased marijuana use leads to less violent crime and contributes to tax revenue. What’s the problem?

http://www.denvergov.org/Portals/720/documents/statistics/2014/UCR_Citywide_Reported%20_Offenses_2014.pdf

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:08 PM

Sorry. weedisgood /

Bmore on May 12, 2014 at 6:09 PM

states rights issue.

dmacleo on May 12, 2014 at 6:09 PM

So, the pro-pot crowd has been lying to everyone?

Taking how-to tips from the Obama Regime? Guess it worked pretty well for them with ObamaCare.

Meople on May 12, 2014 at 6:10 PM

Wigglesworth on May 12, 2014 at 6:06 PM

And less crime because of increased supply?

Pork-Chop on May 12, 2014 at 6:07 PM

Why care? Too PC for me. Only progressives care. I am still working on my victimhood.

Chuck Ef on May 12, 2014 at 6:10 PM

Never mind … early on-set alzheimer’s.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/3137559/posts

barely a month ago …

gh on May 12, 2014 at 6:10 PM

Malkin’s a pot-head?

gh on May 12, 2014 at 6:06 PM

We are all pot heads now.

Bmore on May 12, 2014 at 6:10 PM

How is this shocking? Who didn’t think this was going to happen, especially since new studies indicate that marijuana use actually DOES cause damage to your brain.

Duna on May 12, 2014 at 6:11 PM

And, oh, by the way, the legal types are going to love all the accidents, injuries and other liabilities created by ‘irresponsible’ marijuana use.

TimBuk3 on May 12, 2014 at 6:11 PM

Dave IS here.

Bertram Cabot Jr. on May 12, 2014 at 6:16 PM

“War on drugs” as a thing, is equal to “war on women”. It’s propaganda.

BKeyser on May 12, 2014 at 6:16 PM

http://www.denvergov.org/Portals/720/documents/statistics/2014/UCR_Citywide_Reported%20_Offenses_2014.pdf

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:08 PM

That’s not all of Colorado – just the city and county of Denver.
Statistics for one city dd not directly extrapolate to the entire state – and there are likely many different factors involved, not just legla pot.

dentarthurdent on May 12, 2014 at 6:16 PM

Malkin’s a pot-head?

gh on May 12, 2014 at 6:06 PM

No she argued for CO’s stonerville laws though…

whatever I am fairly agnostic to the point I want it ALL legalized and subsidized….

let Darwin sort ‘em out

harlekwin15 on May 12, 2014 at 6:17 PM

Pot smokers stink. I can’t stand the stench, it’s worse than cigarette smoke too. I see quite a few come in to my store. They smell bad and they drive here stoned. Half of them don’t have jobs and a good number of them have arrest warrants, loss of child custody, etc. Yeah, these people ‘aren’t hurting anyone.’

Corporal Tunnel on May 12, 2014 at 6:17 PM

And yet in Colorado between January 1 and April 30 homicide is down 52%, sexual assault down 13.6%, robbery down 4.8%, aggravated assault down 3.7%. In fact, crime is down in *every* category, except 2, Arson 27 additional crimes and Larceny (except theft from motor vehicles) up by 154. Nearly all violent crimes are significantly down and crime overall is down 5%. So I guess increased marijuana use leads to less violent crime and contributes to tax revenue. What’s the problem?

http://www.denvergov.org/Portals/720/documents/statistics/2014/UCR_Citywide_Reported%20_Offenses_2014.pdf

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:08 PM

Huh. A drug that controls the population and brings in more money to the government. Morlocks, Eloi, here we come!

Dongemaharu on May 12, 2014 at 6:17 PM

We are all pot heads now.

Bmore on May 12, 2014 at 6:10 PM

We must be, since Justin Timberlake now claims he “is America”….

dentarthurdent on May 12, 2014 at 6:18 PM

Well, I never would have guessed! The one thing this doesn’t work with is common sense. You can make plenty of it available but the stupid is strong in so many…

xNavigator on May 12, 2014 at 6:05 PM

So what’s the solution? If you think it’s prohibition then go all out and advocate for all of the agenda of the nanny state.

Spliff Menendez on May 12, 2014 at 6:18 PM

Shocking new study: relaxing marijuana laws leads to increased marijuana consumption

Alternative headline: obvious truth is both obvious and true.

Stoic Patriot on May 12, 2014 at 6:18 PM

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:08 PM

Well, there you have it. Four months of statistics. Doesn’t get any more powerful than that.

BKeyser on May 12, 2014 at 6:18 PM

Zoinks! Shaggy!

kirkill on May 12, 2014 at 6:19 PM

So what’s the solution? If you think it’s prohibition then go all out and advocate for all of the agenda of the nanny state.

Spliff Menendez on May 12, 2014 at 6:18 PM

quite the contrary….let’s have the USPS deliver it to the door and use the idiot left’s economic genius to subsidize it for the poor…

I support medicinal Krokodil

harlekwin15 on May 12, 2014 at 6:19 PM

Well, there you have it. Four months of statistics. Doesn’t get any more powerful than that.

BKeyser on May 12, 2014 at 6:18 PM

4 months worth in one city….
Ya that tells the whole story for all of Colorado….

dentarthurdent on May 12, 2014 at 6:20 PM

And yet in Colorado between January 1 and April 30 homicide is down 52%, sexual assault down 13.6%, robbery down 4.8%, aggravated assault down 3.7%. In fact, crime is down in *every* category, except 2, Arson 27 additional crimes and Larceny (except theft from motor vehicles) up by 154. Nearly all violent crimes are significantly down and crime overall is down 5%. So I guess increased marijuana use leads to less violent crime and contributes to tax revenue. What’s the problem?

http://www.denvergov.org/Portals/720/documents/statistics/2014/UCR_Citywide_Reported%20_Offenses_2014.pdf

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:08 PM

I can’t readily find the statistics, but I would bet there was also an uptick (as there has been for the past few years, steadily) in CCW permits and FFL background checks in that time. If you find them, feel free to pass them on, because I assume they will also correlate with your posted data.

That said, this is the one time I want you to be right libfree, MJ is the only thing you actually want ‘freedom’ on, so we can probably agree to disagree on everything else (Libertarian here), but at least on this issue we’re in sync.

nullrouted on May 12, 2014 at 6:21 PM

Pot smokers stink. I can’t stand the stench, it’s worse than cigarette smoke too. I see quite a few come in to my store. They smell bad and they drive here stoned. Half of them don’t have jobs and a good number of them have arrest warrants, loss of child custody, etc. Yeah, these people ‘aren’t hurting anyone.’

Corporal Tunnel on May 12, 2014 at 6:17 PM

What you describe is more personality traits that lead to drug use than symtoms of the drug use itself. Just one man’s opinion.

Spliff Menendez on May 12, 2014 at 6:21 PM

I’m not so sure there is an increase in use as much as there is an increase in more folks being honest about using marijuana.

iceman1960 on May 12, 2014 at 6:07 PM

The legal stuff is probably cheaper and also a better product. It makes sense that usage would go up even if the number of users didn’t. I expect, initially, that usage will go up, but as people realize that the media glamorization of drug use is dishonest and real drug use is damaging they will learn the lesson. The good example hasn’t worked it’s time for the cautionary tale.

DFCtomm on May 12, 2014 at 6:22 PM

Shocking new study: relaxing marijuana laws leads to increased marijuana consumption

whoa.. that’s deep .. it’s like a paradox or something?!?!

BoxHead1 on May 12, 2014 at 6:23 PM

Pot smokers stink. I can’t stand the stench, it’s worse than cigarette smoke too. I see quite a few come in to my store. They smell bad and they drive here stoned. Half of them don’t have jobs and a good number of them have arrest warrants, loss of child custody, etc. Yeah, these people ‘aren’t hurting anyone.’

Corporal Tunnel on May 12, 2014 at 6:17 PM

Yup, and this pot smoker owns a multi-million dollar business.

You drink alcohol right? Are you the guy I used to see waiting at the liquor store at 9am Saturday waiting for it to open? Or are you a productive member of society?

Hush.

nullrouted on May 12, 2014 at 6:23 PM

And less crime because of increased supply?
Chuck Ef on May 12, 2014 at 6:10 PM

No, lower wages because of increased supply. In regards to legalizing marijuana I didn’t expect to see an increase in crime.

Wigglesworth on May 12, 2014 at 6:24 PM

And yet in Colorado between January 1 and April 30 homicide is down 52%, sexual assault down 13.6%, robbery down 4.8%, aggravated assault down 3.7%. In fact, crime is down in *every* category, except 2, Arson 27 additional crimes and Larceny (except theft from motor vehicles) up by 154. Nearly all violent crimes are significantly down and crime overall is down 5%. So I guess increased marijuana use leads to less violent crime and contributes to tax revenue. What’s the problem?

http://www.denvergov.org/Portals/720/documents/statistics/2014/UCR_Citywide_Reported%20_Offenses_2014.pdf

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:08 PM

LOL! I just went to your link. Nowhere do those stats claim that those decreases in crime are due to the passage of the new marijuana law.

Just a possibility-isn’t there also more than a slight chance that those numbers could have plunged because of the record harsh winter just wrapping up in Colorado?

Take your time.

Del Dolemonte on May 12, 2014 at 6:24 PM

So what’s the solution?

Spliff Menendez on May 12, 2014 at 6:18 PM

Solution to what? Stupidity? I’d say school, but I can’t even get you guys to agree that I can require my students to sit or stand, so how can I require them to do any work and learn?

Legalize it all. That way my kids, who are clean, will stand out from the crowd even more and get ahead even faster. When clean, sober, hardworking, intelligent kids are rare, as they increasingly are, they can demand an even better return on their efforts.

Light ‘em up!

xNavigator on May 12, 2014 at 6:25 PM

Del Dolemonte on May 12, 2014 at 6:24 PM

Or like I said, they could just as easily correlate to CCW and FFL check increases. Libfree wouldn’t care for that I’m sure.

nullrouted on May 12, 2014 at 6:25 PM

quite the contrary….let’s have the USPS deliver it to the door and use the idiot left’s economic genius to subsidize it for the poor…

I support medicinal Krokodil

harlekwin15 on May 12, 2014 at 6:19 PM

Subsidizing and delivering weed before doing the same for booze and tobacco is probably racist.

Spliff Menendez on May 12, 2014 at 6:25 PM

That’s not all of Colorado – just the city and county of Denver.
Statistics for one city dd not directly extrapolate to the entire state – and there are likely many different factors involved, not just legla pot.

dentarthurdent on May 12, 2014 at 6:16 PM

Denver is also the city that produces most of the crime in the state so a major decline in Denver is worth noting. Denver also has the largest number of open dispensaries, so weed use is highest in that city. If weed is declining in Denver, but not declining in areas without dispensaries that’s an even larger correlation between the two.

But most importantly, marijuana advocates only have to prove that crime will not *increase* after marijuana is legalized, the evidence is in. I know, I know, we have to study it for 10 years before we can ever really say what the data already tells us.

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:26 PM

Solution to what? Stupidity? I’d say school, but I can’t even get you guys to agree that I can require my students to sit or stand, so how can I require them to do any work and learn?

Legalize it all. That way my kids, who are clean, will stand out from the crowd even more and get ahead even faster. When clean, sober, hardworking, intelligent kids are rare, as they increasingly are, they can demand an even better return on their efforts.

Light ‘em up!

xNavigator on May 12, 2014 at 6:25 PM

I’ll buy that.

Spliff Menendez on May 12, 2014 at 6:27 PM

Legalize it all. That way my kids, who are clean, will stand out from the crowd even more and get ahead even faster. When clean, sober, hardworking, intelligent kids are rare, as they increasingly are, they can demand an even better return on their efforts.

Light ‘em up!

xNavigator on May 12, 2014 at 6:25 PM

Your kids will not be clean of…anything, once they hit college. Don’t delude yourself. Nothing against your kids personally, I have my own, I’m just speaking in statistics here.

That said, be careful what you wish for, the more that ‘tolerant’ our society becomes, the less chance that any measure of ‘success’ will be ‘valid’ — You saw the article about how Fat is the new Black, right? Slippery slope re:bad choices, there…

nullrouted on May 12, 2014 at 6:27 PM

Yup, and this pot smoker owns a multi-million dollar business.

You drink alcohol right? Are you the guy I used to see waiting at the liquor store at 9am Saturday waiting for it to open? Or are you a productive member of society?

Hush.

nullrouted on May 12, 2014 at 6:23 PM

I’m a door gunner on the space shuttle…

you were saying?

harlekwin15 on May 12, 2014 at 6:27 PM

LOL! I just went to your link. Nowhere do those stats claim that those decreases in crime are due to the passage of the new marijuana law.

LOL! And nowhere did I clam they did. F-

Just a possibility-isn’t there also more than a slight chance that those numbers could have plunged because of the record harsh winter just wrapping up in Colorado?

Del Dolemonte on May 12, 2014 at 6:24 PM

Well except that most of the record snowfall was concentrated in the mountains, which have a truly unique climate even though the rest of the state is at a high altitude. I am not arguing that marijuana causes less crime. But everyone who was claiming legalized marijuana would increase crime, especially in the category of impaired driving has been proven wrong. I suppose we’ll just have to wait for a mild winter for idiots like you to be convinced.

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:29 PM

Subsidizing and delivering weed before doing the same for booze and tobacco is probably racist.

Spliff Menendez on May 12, 2014 at 6:25 PM

*all of it*

We’re through the looking glass we live in the world’s largest open-aired insane asylum friend…

EPA is risking ~40% of US AgriBiz with its idiotic “water basin =s mud puddle” regulatory fiat….

I figure if we indulge every idiot in their every vice the people who clean up aftrer our culture’s suicide will serve mankind better with our gifts we are squandering.

harlekwin15 on May 12, 2014 at 6:29 PM

What you describe is more personality traits that lead to drug use than symtoms of the drug use itself. Just one man’s opinion.

Spliff Menendez on May 12, 2014 at 6:21 PM

So driving stoned is a personality trait that leads to drug use? That’s putting the egg before the chicken.

I’ve known people who were fine before they started smoking dope. Now, they’re total losers. It is clear that pot usage changed them, at best, and is destroying their lives, at worst. I would even say that pot changed their personalities. But the same thing applies to drinkers, for what’s it worth.

Corporal Tunnel on May 12, 2014 at 6:29 PM

harlekwin15 on May 12, 2014 at 6:27 PM

I don’t really care if you believe me dude, I’m just making a point.

nullrouted on May 12, 2014 at 6:29 PM

even if we assume that the increases in marijuana use we observed come from those who use the drug for validated medical purposes

ROFLMAO!

Medical marijuana is like chi-hua-huas that are now “service dogs” as “companions”. All of this junk is just intellectually offensive tripe.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on May 12, 2014 at 6:30 PM

I have to wonder if “increased usage” is the result of those who would never admit to illegal activity now feeling more comfortable with self-disclosure when it’s no longer so.

mogilla on May 12, 2014 at 6:30 PM

I know, I know, we have to study it for 10 years before we can ever really say what the data already tells us.

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:26 PM

Glad to see that you agree with those in Colorado producing the statistics!

It is likely that an accurate view of the changes will not be available until three or four years at the earliest, according to Tom Gorman, director of Rocky Mountains High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area (HIDTA).

Del Dolemonte on May 12, 2014 at 6:31 PM

let Darwin sort ‘em out

harlekwin15 on May 12, 2014 at 6:17 PM

Hopefully not on a highway near me.

BobMbx on May 12, 2014 at 6:31 PM

Srsly, here in WWA the amount of pot smoked and eaten won’t actually CHANGE because it’s now legal, they just smoke it in public and on the buses. Seattle is the most pot-friendly place I’ve ever seen, but now it’s just annoying because you have to smell it on the street corners every day, all day.

Tard on May 12, 2014 at 6:31 PM

I don’t really care if you believe me dude, I’m just making a point.

nullrouted on May 12, 2014 at 6:29 PM

Roman Polanski is a revered and wealthy Horrywood Director…

#LegalizeIt

Look Tommy Vu may be the monkey’s n*tz but I base my philosophy on intoxicants and indulgence on more than anecdote.

harlekwin15 on May 12, 2014 at 6:31 PM

but now it’s just annoying because you have to smell it on the street corners every day, all day.

Tard on May 12, 2014 at 6:31 PM

Light up a cigarette. See who complains about second hand smoke.

BobMbx on May 12, 2014 at 6:32 PM

Hopefully not on a highway near me.

BobMbx on May 12, 2014 at 6:31 PM

as noted Idiocratic Scholar Dede Genital once said “tha’s old skoo sirrrr”

I agree but you and I are fossils….

I’d say be prepared to stay inside for about two years and the idiocy will at least be benchmarkable.

harlekwin15 on May 12, 2014 at 6:33 PM

Pot smokers stink. I can’t stand the stench, it’s worse than cigarette smoke too.

You don’t like how someone smells? JAIL THEM!!!

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:33 PM

Light up a cigarette. See who complains about second hand smoke.

BobMbx on May 12, 2014 at 6:32 PM

Ain’t that the truth.

I was just going to comment similarly, but you beat me to it.

nullrouted on May 12, 2014 at 6:34 PM

So driving stoned is a personality trait that leads to drug use? That’s putting the egg before the chicken.

I’ve known people who were fine before they started smoking dope. Now, they’re total losers. It is clear that pot usage changed them, at best, and is destroying their lives, at worst. I would even say that pot changed their personalities. But the same thing applies to drinkers, for what’s it worth.

Corporal Tunnel on May 12, 2014 at 6:29 PM

Are you high? you said a lot more than just the three words “drive here stoned” and thats what you think I was referring to?

My Lord you are simple.

Spliff Menendez on May 12, 2014 at 6:34 PM

More people smoke pot now that it’s legal? The dickens you say.

Decaf on May 12, 2014 at 6:35 PM

Just a possibility-isn’t there also more than a slight chance that those numbers could have plunged because of the record harsh winter just wrapping up in Colorado?

Del Dolemonte on May 12, 2014 at 6:24 PM

Well except that most of the record snowfall was concentrated in the mountains, which have a truly unique climate even though the rest of the state is at a high altitude.

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:29 PM

The city of Denver got almost 4 feet of snow this past season. That’s not chump change. And it was snowing out there over the weekend.

But “snow” is only one single aspect of winter weather. The extreme cold temperatures cold have also had a hand in driving crime down. And those cold temperatures weren’t confined to the mountains.

Del Dolemonte on May 12, 2014 at 6:36 PM

You don’t like how someone smells? JAIL THEM!!!

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:33 PM

Im not one to agree with you on much but that was good. Bet that dude has a house that smells like wet dog too.

Spliff Menendez on May 12, 2014 at 6:36 PM

Denver is also the city that produces most of the crime in the state so a major decline in Denver is worth noting. Denver also has the largest number of open dispensaries, so weed use is highest in that city. If weed is declining in Denver, but not declining in areas without dispensaries that’s an even larger correlation between the two.

But most importantly, marijuana advocates only have to prove that crime will not *increase* after marijuana is legalized, the evidence is in. I know, I know, we have to study it for 10 years before we can ever really say what the data already tells us.

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:26 PM

The city and county of Denver is not the entire metropolitan area of what people perceive as Denver – not even close – go look at a map.
So 4 months worth of statistics for that one small part is fairly meaningless – expecially as Del pointed out, the period covers an extremely cold winter – which tends to cut down on crime rates as well.
We have also had increases in gun sales and concealed handgun permits issued during the last year thanks to the Dems’ efforts at gun control – factors which also tend to lead to decreases in crime rates – as has been shown repeatedly across the country.

BTW – Makes sense that Denver would produce a lot of the crime for the state – given that Denver also has the highest concentration of Dems in this state.

dentarthurdent on May 12, 2014 at 6:38 PM

’ve known people who were fine before they started smoking dope. Now, they’re total losers. It is clear that pot usage changed them, at best, and is destroying their lives, at worst. I would even say that pot changed their personalities. But the same thing applies to drinkers, for what’s it worth.

Corporal Tunnel on May 12, 2014 at 6:29 PM

So to stop people from ruining their own lives we should arrest them and give them a conviction that:
1. Demands a hefty fine if you work a low wage job. A fine that if unpaid will lead to jail time.
2. Disqualifies you from applying for student loans that you might use to improve yourself, for life.
3. Gives you a misdemeanor charge that many future employees will look into and judge you on.

Yeah that’s the solution to the way addiction hurts peoples lives, put them under the regulation and administration of the criminal justice system, whose numbers on recidivism and job acquisition of convicted criminals is *spectacular*

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:38 PM

More people admit theysmoke pot now that it’s legal? The dickens you say.

Decaf on May 12, 2014 at 6:35 PM

For clarification purposes.

Spliff Menendez on May 12, 2014 at 6:38 PM

You don’t like how someone smells? JAIL THEM!!!

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:33 PM

Strawman. I can find smelly folks disgusting, I can tell them to get away from me too, especially if they are in my place of business. I didn’t say they should be in jail.

Corporal Tunnel on May 12, 2014 at 6:41 PM

It won’t help to be ripped when the wheels come off.

Murphy9 on May 12, 2014 at 6:43 PM

The city and county of Denver is not the entire metropolitan area of what people perceive as Denver – not even close – go look at a map.

Um, a city is a fundamentally different thing than a “metropolitan area.” Just because people in suburban areas colloquially say they are “from Denver” (or in Illinois, “from Chicago etc.) that actually doesn’t mean that they are in the city proper. So you’re actually accusing me of making a claim that I’m not, i.e. that these stats tell us anything about municipalities outside of Denver, and then you’ve accused the argument that you manufactured for me of being fallacious. Truly brilliant in a way.

So 4 months worth of statistics for that one small part is fairly meaningless – expecially as Del pointed out, the period covers an extremely cold winter – which tends to cut down on crime rates as well.

Fine. So I guess we will just wait for a warm winter to prove that crime hasn’t gone down? No matter how you attempt to spin it, the anti-legalization crowd said that crime would increase. It hasn’t. And it hasn’t increased in any state that has legalized medical marijuana or decriminalized marijuana. At a certain point, the prohibitionists are going to have to offer up some DATA.

We have also had increases in gun sales and concealed handgun permits issued during the last year thanks to the Dems’ efforts at gun control – factors which also tend to lead to decreases in crime rates – as has been shown repeatedly across the country.

Still doesn’t prove anything about marijuana producing more crime.

BTW – Makes sense that Denver would produce a lot of the crime for the state – given that Denver also has the highest concentration of Dems in this state.

dentarthurdent on May 12, 2014 at 6:38 PM

OK then, so when you have some data do let us know? K?

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:43 PM

Well except that most of the record snowfall was concentrated in the mountains, which have a truly unique climate even though the rest of the state is at a high altitude. I am not arguing that marijuana causes less crime. But everyone who was claiming legalized marijuana would increase crime, especially in the category of impaired driving has been proven wrong. I suppose we’ll just have to wait for a mild winter for idiots like you to be convinced.

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:29 PM

How long have you supposedly been here, and you’re already an expert on all things Colorado?
I’ve been here since 1979.
Yes, the mountains get more snow than the front range. So what? We still had a huge amount of snow and cold down here on the front range compared to what we’ve been getting for several years.

dentarthurdent on May 12, 2014 at 6:43 PM

And yet in Colorado between January 1 and April 30 homicide is down 52%,

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:08 PM

Denver’s streets are on track to be the some of the deadliest roadways the city has seen in six years.

Data from the Colorado Department of Transportation shows an increase in total fatal accidents since 2008. In 2013, Denver authorities recorded 12 traffic-related deaths through the end of April. With two weeks left in the month, Denver has recorded 15 fatalities, a 25 percent increase.

Now people are killed in their car before they get to murder someone else.

faraway on May 12, 2014 at 6:44 PM

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:38 PM

I never said that. I don’t care if people smoke dope, but let’s not pretend it’s some kind of virtue.

Corporal Tunnel on May 12, 2014 at 6:44 PM

Yes, the mountains get more snow than the front range. So what? We still had a huge amount of snow and cold down here on the front range compared to what we’ve been getting for several years.

dentarthurdent on May 12, 2014 at 6:43 PM

So when you have some actual data which suggests legalizing marijuana leads to a greater costs to society do let me know.

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:46 PM

So when you have some actual data which suggests legalizing marijuana leads to a greater costs to society do let me know.

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:46 PM

so when you have ACTUAL DATA SHOWING AGW get back to wrecking the economy….

#SaidNoDemocratEver

harlekwin15 on May 12, 2014 at 6:47 PM

Denver’s streets are on track to be the some of the deadliest roadways the city has seen in six years.

Data from the Colorado Department of Transportation shows an increase in total fatal accidents since 2008. In 2013, Denver authorities recorded 12 traffic-related deaths through the end of April. With two weeks left in the month, Denver has recorded 15 fatalities, a 25 percent increase.

Now people are killed in their car before they get to murder someone else.

faraway on May 12, 2014 at 6:44 PM

1. Recreational marijuana sales began January 1st.
2. Medical marijuana was approved by voters in 2000.

In other words, that data tells us nothing about the relationship between marijuana legalization and car fatalities.

3. Does that data say anything about the blood alcohol content of those driving cars involved in vehicular manslaughter.
4. Does it tell us anything about the active THC in their blood?

If not then its, again, not helpful data for prohibition.

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:50 PM

Um, a city is a fundamentally different thing than a “metropolitan area.” Just because people in suburban areas colloquially say they are “from Denver” (or in Illinois, “from Chicago etc.) that actually doesn’t mean that they are in the city proper. So you’re actually accusing me of making a claim that I’m not, i.e. that these stats tell us anything about municipalities outside of Denver, and then you’ve accused the argument that you manufactured for me of being fallacious. Truly brilliant in a way.

Well dumb@ss – THIS is what you said:

And yet in Colorado between January 1 and April 30 homicide is down 52%, sexual assault down 13.6%, robbery down 4.8%, aggravated assault down 3.7%. In fact, crime is down in *every* category, except 2, Arson 27 additional crimes and Larceny (except theft from motor vehicles) up by 154. Nearly all violent crimes are significantly down and crime overall is down 5%. So I guess increased marijuana use leads to less violent crime and contributes to tax revenue. What’s the problem?

http://www.denvergov.org/Portals/720/documents/statistics/2014/UCR_Citywide_Reported%20_Offenses_2014.pdf

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:08 PM

You actually said “in Colorado” and then posted a link to Denver city stats. You’re trying to make a bigger claim to minor stats than they’re worth.

Still doesn’t prove anything about marijuana producing more crime.

Also doesn’t prove that legal pot had anything to do with ANY changes in crime rate. So, back atcha dumb@ss.

OK then, so when you have some data do let us know? K?

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:43 PM

Google is your friend, dumb@ss.
Look at any map of party affiliation and voting patterns. The Denver-Boulder area has been hardcore Dem for many years.

dentarthurdent on May 12, 2014 at 6:50 PM

Wait until meth is legalized, boy howdy it’s gonna be fun! I may have to go to dental school so I can make some extra cash on the side.

Bishop on May 12, 2014 at 6:50 PM

Wait until meth is legalized, boy howdy it’s gonna be fun! I may have to go to dental school so I can make some extra cash on the side.

Bishop on May 12, 2014 at 6:50 PM

Bishop you need to go undergound and just use a claw hammer…

pretty sure OgabeToothCare is coming next

harlekwin15 on May 12, 2014 at 6:52 PM

So to stop people from ruining their own lives we should arrest them and give them a conviction that:
1. Demands a hefty fine if you work a low wage job. A fine that if unpaid will lead to jail time.
2. Disqualifies you from applying for student loans that you might use to improve yourself, for life.
3. Gives you a misdemeanor charge that many future employees will look into and judge you on.

Yeah that’s the solution to the way addiction hurts peoples lives, put them under the regulation and administration of the criminal justice system, whose numbers on recidivism and job acquisition of convicted criminals is *spectacular*

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:38 PM

Man libfree, you’re full of win on this thread, keep it up and we might even be able to be friends.

nullrouted on May 12, 2014 at 6:52 PM

So when you have some actual data which suggests legalizing marijuana leads to a greater costs to society do let me know.

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:46 PM

What the he11 does that have to do with anything I’ve said?
Are you stoned right now? Cuz you don’t have a clue what’s being said here.
You’re the one who tried posting 4 months worht of stats for one city, and tried to say that means legal pot is making crime go down.
Are you really this stupid or stoned?

dentarthurdent on May 12, 2014 at 6:53 PM

I’m a door gunner on the space shuttle…

you were saying?

harlekwin15 on May 12, 2014 at 6:27 PM

Put your bungee cord down; the space shuttle is a slick. Chuckle!

HonestLib on May 12, 2014 at 6:54 PM

And PCP….yeah! Nothing better than having crazed, half-dressed people running through the streets waving machetes, foaming at the mouth, and screaming incoherently.

Yeah sure, it happened at OWS for a while and at every demorat convention, but still…now it will be every day, everywhere.

Bishop on May 12, 2014 at 6:54 PM

Are you really this stupid or stoned?

dentarthurdent on May 12, 2014 at 6:53 PM

the two states are not mutually excluding….

harlekwin15 on May 12, 2014 at 6:54 PM

the two states are not mutually excluding….

harlekwin15 on May 12, 2014 at 6:54 PM

Ya – definite overlap of the 2 in this thread….

dentarthurdent on May 12, 2014 at 6:55 PM

You actually said “in Colorado” and then posted a link to Denver city stats. You’re trying to make a bigger claim to minor stats than they’re worth.

Not really.
1. Denver is IN Colorado, so that’s a factual statement.
2. Denver makes up a huge chunk of the crime in the state. http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/co/crime/
3 Denver has the largest numbers of dispensaries, if marijuana legalization increased crime, should’t crime be increasing in the area with the highest rate of marijuana retail and use?

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:56 PM

Prohibition of alcohol worked in the exact, same way: it lowered consumption and super-charged organized crime.

Works EVERY SINGLE TIME that way.

If changing one’s mental state via drugs is so bad, then how about doing a better job of teaching that and demonstrating the long-term effects? That would bolster the moral case no end. Much easier to just pass a law and pretend that it doesn’t put a lot of people in jail and lots of money into the hands of criminals.

Somehow that can’t be very moral, either. In fact forcing organized crime to compete on pricing while showing the bad effects of the drugs might do a whole lot more to lowering the levels of crime and reducing the use of the drugs… but then individuals would have to be committed to helping get this done instead of relying on the power of the State to do it for you. You know, contribute to outreach and rehab programs, be willing to help fund studies and generally work in a social way to make the use of these things something that isn’t seen as all that smart or healthy. Why if we changed the laws, discharged the minor offenders and did this sort of thing you might even be able to lower taxes so that you would have some more cash to dedicate to a good cause.

That, of course, takes personal morals and ethics.

Much better to just hand it off to politicians, cops and corporations making money off of the prison system, plus super-charging organized crime. Yes, that is such a great benefit for lower consumption, now, isn’t it?

ajacksonian on May 12, 2014 at 6:59 PM

Put your bungee cord down; the space shuttle is a slick. Chuckle!

HonestLib on May 12, 2014 at 6:54 PM

I’m always charmed by folk who think the words “anecdote” and “data” are synonyms

harlekwin15 on May 12, 2014 at 6:59 PM

dentarthurdent on May 12, 2014 at 6:53 PM

Of the two of us, one has posted data which at least shows a correlation between marijuana legalization and crime reduction. The other has…hurled insults. Folks can judge as they will.

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:59 PM

Not really.
1. Denver is IN Colorado, so that’s a factual statement.
2. Denver makes up a huge chunk of the crime in the state. http://www.neighborhoodscout.com/co/crime/
3 Denver has the largest numbers of dispensaries, if marijuana legalization increased crime, should’t crime be increasing in the area with the highest rate of marijuana retail and use?

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:56 PM

No shiite sherlock – so why didn’t you just say “in Denver”?
And no – there is not enough data there to show ANY cause and effect for any one factor.
You’re stretching for meaning that just doesn’t exist.

And for the record – if you had ever had any level of reading comprehension, you’d know that I’ve never really argued AGAINST legalized pot. I’m generally against prohibition.

dentarthurdent on May 12, 2014 at 7:00 PM

Racists.

KMC1 on May 12, 2014 at 7:00 PM

Man libfree, you’re full of win on this thread, keep it up and we might even be able to be friends.

nullrouted on May 12, 2014 at 6:52 PM

If this were twitter, everyone would’ve just unfollowed you.

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 7:00 PM

Two years in SEA scrambled my brain and introduced this, theretofore, Southron Baptist to the alternate ‘reality’ of ganja. My ‘brain’ was NOT improved when I stepped off’in the Oakland Army Base and was promptly approached by a lovely blonde young thang who screamed,”Baby Killer” and spat into my smiling face (thought she was there for a more ‘positive’ welcome). Well, talk about a motivator to seek out more drugs with which to dull the effects of a world that changed without my permission. The next ten years are still a fog. The point is, the ‘dope’ of my era has been cultivated to a real mind bender. Short term memory, kiss it goombye. If you’re a teen, knock off about 20 points in IQ – permanently. Be prepared for a life of hacking up yer guts – took me 2-3 years after quitting to, somewhat, clean out my lungs. Kiss real friends, goombye, say ‘hello’ to like minded, loser, cohorts. Be ready to spend much of your day seeking out and trying to pay for, more weed. Paranoia will become your constant companion, whether or not it’s ‘legal’. What little ‘motivation’ you have left will be consumed by (see above). Ignorance of reality will be your constant companion; hubris brought about by ‘feelings’ fueled by socialist-thought-of-the-day, your Mantra. Feeling ‘victimized’ by The Man, you’ll wander around, crapping where you will while screaming your ‘victimhood’ to the four winds…

vnvet on May 12, 2014 at 7:01 PM

And for the record – if you had ever had any level of reading comprehension, you’d know that I’ve never really argued AGAINST legalized pot. I’m generally against prohibition.

dentarthurdent on May 12, 2014 at 7:00 PM

You’re doing an awful lot of work to disagree with me when it sounds like you don’t…

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 7:02 PM

Of the two of us, one has posted data which at least shows a correlation between marijuana legalization and crime reduction. The other has…hurled insults. Folks can judge as they will.

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:59 PM

No it doesn’t. You haven’t posted anything at all that shows any correlation with anything. All you’ve posted is a link that shows some of Denver’s crime rates are down a bit for the middle of a very cold winter. That’s it.

dentarthurdent on May 12, 2014 at 7:02 PM

The drug war is wrong because it’s extra-constitutional.

Prohibition of alcohol required a constitutional amendment, the 18th Amendment. Where is the amendment saying people can’t smoke Marijuana?

Considering how the individual mandate in Obamacare was struck down as an overly-broad interpretation of the interstate commerce clause, the exact same justification for Obamacare’s individual mandate is used to enforce federal prohibition of narcotics.

Obamacare was found to be able to apply the mandate with the taxation clause, but NOT the interstate commerce clause. So the federal government has the right to impose fines (additional taxes) on Marijuana smokers, but does not have the right to outlaw it federally.

James Dahl on May 12, 2014 at 7:02 PM

And yet in Colorado between January 1 and April 30 homicide is down 52%, sexual assault down 13.6%, robbery down 4.8%, aggravated assault down 3.7%. In fact, crime is down in *every* category, except 2, Arson 27 additional crimes and Larceny (except theft from motor vehicles) up by 154. Nearly all violent crimes are significantly down and crime overall is down 5%. So I guess increased marijuana use leads to less violent crime and contributes to tax revenue. What’s the problem?

http://www.denvergov.org/Portals/720/documents/statistics/2014/UCR_Citywide_Reported%20_Offenses_2014.pdf

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 6:08

I wonder if the cold weather was a factor.

wifarmboy on May 12, 2014 at 7:04 PM

Paranoia will become your constant companion, whether or not it’s ‘legal’. What little ‘motivation’ you have left will be consumed by (see above). Ignorance of reality will be your constant companion; hubris brought about by ‘feelings’ fueled by socialist-thought-of-the-day, your Mantra. Feeling ‘victimized’ by The Man, you’ll wander around, crapping where you will while screaming your ‘victimhood’ to the four winds…

vnvet on May 12, 2014 at 7:01 PM

So why does everything in Colorado look exactly the same as it did the year before? Except Denver has less crime?

I love when people act like their own addiction is a rationale for making laws that limit everyone else and makes criminals out of people who simply have a different taste in recreational drug from people who like beer.

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 7:04 PM

You’re doing an awful lot of work to disagree with me when it sounds like you don’t…

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 7:02 PM

That’s because you’re failing at reading comprehension.
I have not yet said anything for or against pot legalization in this thread. You’re just making that up because I’m pointing out that your statistics prove nothing.
You’re failing horribly – try again.

dentarthurdent on May 12, 2014 at 7:04 PM

No it doesn’t. You haven’t posted anything at all that shows any correlation with anything. All you’ve posted is a link that shows some of Denver’s crime rates are down a bit for the middle of a very cold winter. That’s it.

dentarthurdent on May 12, 2014 at 7:02 PM

First look up the definition of “correlation,” then look up the definition of “causation.” Then get back to me.

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 7:05 PM

First look up the definition of “correlation,” then look up the definition of “causation.” Then get back to me.

libfreeordie on May 12, 2014 at 7:05 PM

Maybe you should try that – since you don’t seem to understand them.

dentarthurdent on May 12, 2014 at 7:06 PM

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