Joe Biden on illegal immigrants: The 11 million people in the shadows are “already Americans”

posted at 9:11 pm on May 5, 2014 by Allahpundit

Last month, Rand Paul was asked what he thought of Jeb Bush’s “act of love” comment about illegals. They’re not bad people, Paul conceded, but that doesn’t mean there shouldn’t be a limiting principle on illegal immigration. It can’t be that love for a family member who’s here or even love for America itself entitles you to violate the country’s immigration law, especially when we have a welfare state that we can’t pay for already. “You know, the whole world loves America,” he argued, “and they can’t all come.”

Can’t they? If you take Biden seriously, which, granted, is always a bad idea, the world is full of “Americans.” The only difference between those abroad and those who are here is that the latter group’s been a bit more proactive in claiming their citizenship. Or, if you prefer to think of it this way, foreign citizens are just Americans who haven’t been amnestized yet.

Emphasis on “yet.”

Vice President Joe Biden marked Cinco de Mayo, traditionally a celebration of Mexican culture, with an impassioned call for immigration overhaul…

Guests – which included the U.S. ambassador to Mexico, Anthony Wayne, as well as several Hispanic lawmakers – feasted on chorizo and empanadas to the strains of a five-piece Mariachi band…

“I know I was criticized for saying, a couple months ago in Florida, that these 11 million folks in the shadows are already Americans. And I got pretty roundly criticized for that. But you know, they are Americans. They may not be citizens, but they are Americans,” Biden said.

“The definition of Teddy Roosevelt, who said, ‘Americanism is not a question of birthplace or creed, or line of descent, it’s a question of principles, idealism and character.’ And I would argue that those 11 million folks who are here, breaking their neck, working hard, they are Americans,” he added.

He got heckled over the weekend during a commencement address by someone yelling, “Stop deportations!” His reply: “We’ll do that, too, kid, but let me finish my speech.” Speaking of which, via DrewM, here’s the sort of scrupulously fair questions on deportation that House Judiciary Chair Bob Goodlatte got when he went on Univision this weekend. Quote:

JR: But Congressman, many Latinos don’t agree with you. Many Latinos think that President Barack Obama has enforced the laws and to an extreme way. He has deported, as you know, more than 2 million immigrants right now. The number of undocumented immigrants has decreased from 12 million to 11 million. So, he has been enforcing the law.

BG: Let me make it very clear. I don’t agree with that. First of all, the President himself has acknowledged, and the Secretary of Homeland Security Johnson has acknowledged that those numbers are basically cooked. The 369,000 people that were deported last year, two-thirds, almost two-thirds of those people were apprehended at the border. And in prior administrations they would not have been counted, because they were not put through the deportation process. They were simply turned back…

[...]

JR: So you want him to deport more people. Is that…

BG: …forces in the interior of the country. They’re not being enforced.

JR: Alright, so…

BG: And that is the problem. Only people who committed serious crimes.

JR: So your point is that you want more people to be deported?

I knew that Univision was hackish and in the tank for amnesty even by the standards of American media but not until I read the transcript of the Goodlatte interview by Jorge Ramos did I really understand. The “two million deportations” figure that Ramos keeps quoting was debunked weeks ago, by the illegal-friendly LA Times no less. What Goodlatte keeps trying to explain in the quoted bit is that, per the LAT, most of those “deportations” that are showing up in the statistics aren’t deportations as they’re commonly understood. They’re removals of illegals who’ve been caught near the border; in the past those people were simply bused back over into Mexico but now they’re fingerprinted and then formally deported. That’s why Obama’s numbers are so high. Basically, he’s counting catch-and-release as traditional “deportations.” In reality, if you’re an illegal living in the interior of the U.S., you have virtually no chance of being deported so long as you don’t have a criminal record — and even if you do have one, you’ve got a decent chance of being left alone then too.

Ramos knows all of this, I assume, since it’s been big news over the past few months to anyone in media who follows immigration, but the idea that deportations have actually gone down under Obama is rather unhelpful to the cause of amnesty in Congress. So we’re left with the surreal spectacle of demanding that a congressman explain himself for the outre position of believing that American law should be enforced. Just as Biden implied, everyone everywhere is an American. How dare we impede them in “coming home”? Exit question: Did Biden quote Teddy Roosevelt fairly? Read the full passage and see what he left out.


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They are “document-deprived Americans”.

And yes, that means the whole world. Get over it, er …. World.

Chuck Ef on May 5, 2014 at 9:16 PM

Feliz Cinco de Mayo, Allahpundit.

terryannonline on May 5, 2014 at 9:16 PM

Everyone on planet Earth is an American…

I guess……

Electrongod on May 5, 2014 at 9:17 PM

To Biden, and all Democrats, they’re not considered Americans. They’re considered potential voters for the un-American party.

fogw on May 5, 2014 at 9:17 PM

“The definition of Teddy Roosevelt, who said, ‘Americanism is not a question of birthplace or creed, or line of descent, it’s a question of principles, idealism and character.’ …”

By that definition then, Joe, you’re more of a Mexican yourself than an American.

F*cking traitor …

ShainS on May 5, 2014 at 9:18 PM

Can’t they? If you take Biden seriously, which, granted, is always a bad idea, the world is full of “Americans.” The only difference between those abroad and those who are here is that the latter group’s been a bit more proactive in claiming their citizenship. Or, if you prefer to think of it this way, foreign citizens are just Americans who haven’t been amnestized yet.

Your tired snark aside, given the amount of influence the US government exercises over the rest of the world, usually in ways that have very negative effects on the rest of humanity, it’s hard to argue against the proposition that the rest of the world should have the right to US citizenship, or at least have a right to vote in its elections.

Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 9:21 PM

Well, they are voting…

BDavis on May 5, 2014 at 9:24 PM

Joe Biden is a shadow American.

bgibbs1000 on May 5, 2014 at 9:24 PM

…Biden belongs to the breaking the law party.

KOOLAID2 on May 5, 2014 at 9:27 PM

it’s hard to argue against the proposition that the rest of the world should have the right to US citizenship, or at least have a right to vote in its elections.

Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 9:21 PM

Heck, while you’re at it, why not let them run for President too.

Oh, wait…

Cleombrotus on May 5, 2014 at 9:27 PM

Your tired snark aside, given the amount of influence the US government exercises over the rest of the world, usually in ways that have very negative effects on the rest of humanity, it’s hard to argue against the proposition that the rest of the world should have the right to US citizenship, or at least have a right to vote in its elections.
Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 9:21 PM

As long as they come here legally and go through the legal process of becoming a citizen, they can vote however they like.

Shadow on May 5, 2014 at 9:29 PM

Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 9:21 PM

Don’t like the laws of the United States, you can always go back to your “socialist” country.

Barred on May 5, 2014 at 9:29 PM

Hey Joe, you need to come out from the Shadows, and show
everyone that you’re really an Unclean, inarticulate Jackazz.

..that’s Storybook man….

ToddPA on May 5, 2014 at 9:30 PM

The Snopes Teddy Roosevelt qoute at the end is worth clicking on.

wolly4321 on May 5, 2014 at 9:31 PM

ur tired snark aside, given the amount of influence the US government exercises over the rest of the world, usually in ways that have very negative effects on the rest of humanity, it’s hard to argue against the proposition that the rest of the world should have the right to US citizenship, or at least have a right to vote in its elections. Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 9:21 PM

There’s a graveyard in Normandy. Can I vote in France?

wolly4321 on May 5, 2014 at 9:38 PM

Press 2 for English.

This country is being sold down the sewer by the elitists. Disgraceful.
I expect the “Republican Senate to be” to pass a full comprehensive immigration plan (Just another word for Amnesty).

Immigrants regardless of income levels do not vote for republicans.
Allow immigration reform and this country is toast.
Asian immigrants who have high income levels vote overwhelmingly democrat.
The issue here is not income levels.It’s more about culture.
Immigrants for some reason gravitate towards democrats. We can’t fix it but we can put the brakes on it.

weedisgood on May 5, 2014 at 9:40 PM

‘Americanism is not a question of birthplace or creed, or line of descent, it’s a question of principles, idealism and character

So those MS-13 banger illegals who are slaughtering people, are they included?

Bishop on May 5, 2014 at 9:40 PM

Trotsky is fishing.

Bishop on May 5, 2014 at 9:40 PM

Don’t like the laws of the United States, you can always go back to your “socialist” country.

Barred on May 5, 2014 at 9:29 PM

That’s not my point.

My point is that as long as the laws of the United States are going to effect my life, no thanks to the influence of American right wing ideology, then no matter where I live, I should have a say in who is elected.

I’m not saying that that will ever happen, though eventually, there should be a transition to a global governing body. As long as there are artificial borders determining who can vote in which elections, the rich will maintain control over the economy.

It is not reasonable to expect local labor to compete against global capital. This is why Trotsky argued for a global revolution. It’s not a pie-in-the-sky fantasy – it’s simple logic and fairness.

Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 9:41 PM

We need Biden to run for president one more time, just for the comic relief.

Ted Torgerson on May 5, 2014 at 9:42 PM

Trotsky is fishing.

Bishop on May 5, 2014 at 9:40 PM

What do you mean?

Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 9:42 PM

Earth to Biden: “NO, THEY’RE NOT!!”

majorzot on May 5, 2014 at 9:42 PM

Biden’s grinning ghoul counterpart, Nancy Pelosi, is crowing that immigration reform (amnesty now) must take place in order to celebrate the historical defeat of the French by Mexico, denoted by Cinco de Mayo.

onlineanalyst on May 5, 2014 at 9:42 PM

Solved that problem.

Economy? Check
Gay Marriage? Check
Terrorism? Check
Egypt? Check
Syria? Check
Palestine? Check
Immigration? Check
Wash the Camaro? Check

His list must be getting pretty short.

kcewa on May 5, 2014 at 9:44 PM

the rest of the world should have the right to US citizenship, or at least have a right to vote in its elections.

Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 9:21 PM

The rest of world can put its big-boynation pants on, recognize sovereignty, and hold their own free elections.

bettycooper on May 5, 2014 at 9:44 PM

They are mexicans. They need to go back to mexico and demand free shit from their own corrupt racist government.

Murphy9 on May 5, 2014 at 9:45 PM

Most Mexicans in America consider themselves to be Mexicans. Biden sounds like he’s saying they are property with posession being 100% of the law. Slavery is illegal now, Joe.

VorDaj on May 5, 2014 at 9:45 PM

And I would argue that those 11 million folks who are here, …

Uhhh. That number’s been used since at least 2001. 1 million illegals have been making it across our Southern borders since then, or they’ve come here and had 4 or 5 additional “citizens” (at taxpayer expense).

So, that 11 million number needs to have about 13 million more added to it (around 24 million) at the very least.

And that doesn’t begin to account for foreigners overstaying VISAs (like some of the 9/11 terrorists).

Ruckus_Tom on May 5, 2014 at 9:45 PM

Trotsky is fishing.

Bishop on May 5, 2014 at 9:40 PM

I thought he was chipping the ice?

kcewa on May 5, 2014 at 9:46 PM

Remember, confiscating 300 million firearms collecting dust in closets and basements is no problem, but deporting 11 million criminals who walk about in public every day, half of them boasting of their foreign allegiances, is impossible because there’s too many and they can’t be found.

CapnObvious on May 5, 2014 at 9:46 PM

Teddy Roosevelt 1907~

We should insist that if the immigrant who comes here does in good faith become an

American and assimilates himself to us he shall be treated on an exact equality with every one else, for it is an outrage to discriminate against any such man because of creed or birth-place or origin.

But this is predicated upon the man’s becoming in very fact an American and nothing but an American. If he tries to keep segregated with men of his own origin and separated from the rest of America, then he isn’t doing his part as an American. There can be no divided allegiance here. . . We have room for but one language here, and that is the English language, for we intend to see that the crucible turns our people out as Americans, of American nationality, and not as dwellers in a polyglot boarding-house; and we have room for but one soul loyalty, and that is loyalty to the American people.

thatsafactjack on May 5, 2014 at 9:47 PM

it’s hard to argue against the proposition that the rest of the world should have the right to US citizenship, or at least have a right to vote in its elections. Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 9:21 PM

Not a bad idea. Let’s try a trial election, in say, Russia. I’ll bet they will be cooperative with you proposition.

Walter L. Newton on May 5, 2014 at 9:48 PM

The 11 million people in the shadows are “already Americans”

Sorry – but no

redguy on May 5, 2014 at 9:48 PM

Your tired snark aside, given the amount of influence the US government exercises over the rest of the world, usually in ways that have very negative effects on the rest of humanity, it’s hard to argue against the proposition that the rest of the world should have the right to US citizenship, or at least have a right to vote in its elections.

Dopesky on May 5, 2014 at 9:21 PM

…well…you’re an azzhole!… Did that make your day? ^

KOOLAID2 on May 5, 2014 at 9:48 PM

Hmmm. The new trolls are straight-up commies.

fogw on May 5, 2014 at 9:49 PM

Trotsky is fishing.

Bishop on May 5, 2014 at 9:40 PM

What do you mean?

Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 9:42 PM

Seeing that your nom is “Trotsky” and you’ve got this trotskyite/NewGlobalOrder, evil guy rhetoric and HA is a conservative(used to be anyway) site … given all those things, well, I , also, sort of assumed that you were fishing (and an Allah sock, to be honest).

BoxHead1 on May 5, 2014 at 9:49 PM

We should insist that if the immigrant who comes here does in good faith become an

American and assimilates himself to us…~ Roosevelt

In other words, comes to this nation legally and assimilates completely, becoming an American. No hyphen, no other language, no other flag, no other allegiance.

thatsafactjack on May 5, 2014 at 9:49 PM

It means, Trotsky, that you’re a lazy white boy who is spewing forth a bunch of crap on the order of Harold Hill in “The Music Man”, only Hill’s was more useful.

Unsurprisingly, like your namesake, your only acquaintance with working is talking about it. The rest of the time you’re mooching off other people’s labor, time, and energy.

northdallasthirty on May 5, 2014 at 9:49 PM

Your tired snark aside, given the amount of influence the US government exercises over the rest of the world, usually in ways that have very negative effects on the rest of humanity, it’s hard to argue against the proposition that the rest of the world should have the right to US citizenship, or at least have a right to vote in its elections.

Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 9:21 PM

I agree. Less people in the US voting would make life easier. Bring back the poll tax.

nobar on May 5, 2014 at 9:50 PM

Univision was simply making the case for a third amnesty 10 years from now, or an outright open border. They don’t believe that the US has a right to control immigration into the country, and this is why you can’t give a mouse a cookie.

El_Terrible on May 5, 2014 at 9:51 PM

Yo Joe……..maybe you should help your son sidestep this beauty!

dmann on May 5, 2014 at 9:51 PM

Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 9:41 PM

Serious question: What would convince you that labor is too apathetic to organize your preferred marxist vision?

nobar on May 5, 2014 at 9:53 PM

*organize for

nobar on May 5, 2014 at 9:53 PM

What a dope! Of course we only put up other dopes against Obama and Biden in the election.

Looks like the GOP wants to put even dopier dopes up for 2016:

Trying to win voters who will never vote for you in a million years even if you lick their arses while at the same time flinging your only hope (the base) under the elephant is no way to win the WH.

Put that dope, Jeb Bush, up for election and I might even stay home on Election Day.

Sad but true.

Sherman1864 on May 5, 2014 at 9:53 PM

Don’t like the laws of the United States, you can always go back to your “socialist” country.

Barred on May 5, 2014 at 9:29 PM

Also, there are no modern socialist countries. The only thing that ever really came close was the Soviet Union, and even that was quickly co-opted and betrayed by Stalinism. You should read Trotsky’s The Revolution Betrayed. It explains all of this, and is very clear and accessible, even to someone unfamiliar with Marxist theory.

Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 9:54 PM

I think Biden, in his quest for 2016, will probably lead the call for amnesty, loudly, via executive order.

He pulled Obama into gay marriage, he might try to find a way to pull Obama towards amnesty too. It’ll give him 2 things to trump over Hillary.

El_Terrible on May 5, 2014 at 9:54 PM

Joe Biden on illegal immigrants : The 11 million people in the shadows are already Democrats.

ansonia on May 5, 2014 at 9:55 PM

Also, there are no modern socialist countries. The only thing that ever really came close was the Soviet Union, and even that was quickly co-opted and betrayed by Stalinism. You should read Trotsky’s The Revolution Betrayed. It explains all of this, and is very clear and accessible, even to someone unfamiliar with Marxist theory.

Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 9:54 PM

Short version: Socialism has never been done the right way. It’ll work this time.

El_Terrible on May 5, 2014 at 9:55 PM

“global governing body”? Trosky?

Behind every blade of grass, buddy.

wolly4321 on May 5, 2014 at 9:56 PM

Cinco de mayo is not a national holiday in Mexico. It is a regional holiday.

Cinco de Mayo

thatsafactjack on May 5, 2014 at 9:56 PM

The aviators and the fake chiclets that old Joe is sporting are a sign of what we can look for in FrankenHillary in about a decade.

bettycooper on May 5, 2014 at 9:56 PM

It explains all of this, and is very clear and accessible, even to someone unfamiliar with Marxist theory.

Nope that was fully explained when Cain slew Abel.

The end.

Murphy9 on May 5, 2014 at 9:57 PM

You should read Trotsky’s The Revolution Betrayed. It explains all of this, and is very clear and accessible, even to someone unfamiliar with Marxist theory.

Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 9:54 PM

Do you think that “clearness” might be a sign that it’s simplistic? Solutions to real world problems aren’t that clear in my experience.

kcewa on May 5, 2014 at 9:58 PM

I’m starting to wish we could send millions of Americans to Mexico to demand voting rights and free stuff.

El_Terrible on May 5, 2014 at 9:58 PM

Trotsky is fishing.

Bishop on May 5, 2014 at 9:40 PM

No he’s not. He’s for world socialism. Click his name.

Barred on May 5, 2014 at 9:58 PM

David J. Stoddard, 27 year veteran of the Border Patrol -

Illegal aliens generally do NOT want U.S. citizenship. Americans are very vain thinking that everybody in the world wants to be a U.S. citizen. Mexicans want to remain citizens of their home country while obtaining the benefits offered by the United States such as employment, medical care, in-state tuition, government subsidized housing and free education for their offspring. Their main attraction is employment and their loyalty usually remains at home. They want benefits earned and subsidized by middle class Americans. What illegal aliens want are benefits of American residence without paying the price.

Mexico is NOT a friend of the United States. Since 1848 Mexicans have resented the United States. During World War I, Mexico allowed German spies to operate freely in Mexico to spy on the U.S.. During World War II, Mexico allowed the Axis powers to spy on the U.S. from Mexico. During the Cold War Mexico allowed spies hostile to the U.S. to operate freely. The attack on the Twin Towers in 2001 was cheered and applauded all across Mexico. Today, Mexican school children are taught that the U.S. stole California, Arizona, new Mexico and Texas. If you don’t believe it, check out some Mexican textbooks written for their schoolchildren.

VorDaj on May 5, 2014 at 10:00 PM

Do you think that “clearness” might be a sign that it’s simplistic? Solutions to real world problems aren’t that clear in my experience.

Indeed. I believe “sophomoric” is a more accurate description than “simplistic.”

CapnObvious on May 5, 2014 at 10:00 PM

Speaking of plunging ice picks into people’s skulls, there are some wonderful images of Trotsky’s corpse on the web. Look it up. It will give you a warm glow inside.

Ted Torgerson on May 5, 2014 at 10:00 PM

Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 9:54 PM

You should really consider emigrating. You’ll never be happy, fulfilled, or satisfied in this nation. Maybe consider Russia circa 1917. Bon voyage.

thatsafactjack on May 5, 2014 at 10:00 PM

Seeing that your nom is “Trotsky” and you’ve got this trotskyite/NewGlobalOrder, evil guy rhetoric and HA is a conservative(used to be anyway) site … given all those things, well, I , also, sort of assumed that you were fishing (and an Allah sock, to be honest).

BoxHead1 on May 5, 2014 at 9:49 PM

Put aside your Manichaean good vs evil nonsense, that still doesn’t explain what “fishing” means. Also, what is an “Allah sock”?

Is it a reference to “Allahpundit”? Or to Allah from Islam?

Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 10:00 PM

CapnObvious on May 5, 2014 at 10:00 PM

I could go with sophomoric.

kcewa on May 5, 2014 at 10:03 PM

OT: Just saw the new “24″. They haven’t missed a beat. This is going to be good.

TXUS on May 5, 2014 at 10:03 PM

Someone should really ask the American oil companies that invested a fortune developing Mexico’s oil industry only to see it expropriated and nationalized March 18, 1938 and subsequently lost every red cent of their investment how they view Mexico as a reliable friend, neighbor, and ally.

thatsafactjack on May 5, 2014 at 10:04 PM

Cinco de mayo is not a national holiday in Mexico. It is a regional holiday.

Cinco de Mayo

thatsafactjack on May 5, 2014 at 9:56 PM

Tell that to the brain dead in D.C.

onlineanalyst on May 5, 2014 at 10:04 PM

Put aside your Manichaean good vs evil nonsense

Irrelevant pedantry may speak positively of your vocabulary but negatively of both critical thinking ability and genuineness of intent.

CapnObvious on May 5, 2014 at 10:05 PM

Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 10:00 PM

There, there.

Poor thing.

Poor, poor addled thing.

There, there.

thatsafactjack on May 5, 2014 at 10:05 PM

onlineanalyst on May 5, 2014 at 10:04 PM

I do, with dogged regularity. I’m hoping that repeating it on as many venues as possible with get the idea out into the general population and perhaps others will begin to mention it, too.

thatsafactjack on May 5, 2014 at 10:07 PM

Shadows are like ninjas, which are pretty cool dude.
Seriously considering legally changing my name to Pablo Escobar (Imagine the street cred not mention bennies). I mean everyone is 1/32 something am I right :)

Fett on May 5, 2014 at 10:08 PM

It is not reasonable to expect local labor to compete against global capital. This is why Trotsky argued for a global revolution. It’s not a pie-in-the-sky fantasy – it’s simple logic and fairness.

Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 9:41 PM

And I suppose with guys like YOU in charge, right?

Thanks, but no thanks.

Cleombrotus on May 5, 2014 at 10:11 PM

Cinco de mayo is not a national holiday in Mexico. It is a regional holiday.

Cinco de Mayo

thatsafactjack on May 5, 2014 at 9:56 PM

Just a holiday for the region of Mexico between the Rio Grande and the Canadian border.

kcewa on May 5, 2014 at 10:11 PM

Make the Democrats and rinos vote against ending multi-loyalty citizenship. You can’t go around calling them Americans while saying they deserve special privilege multi-nation citizenship. Curiously, the Republicans never even do the easy things to cause political problems for their good friends across the aisle.

Buddahpundit on May 5, 2014 at 10:11 PM

-Dude walks into a bar in some downtown hipster sh!thol3. Orders a drink at the bar. Gets carded. The bartender see’s the name on the ID…Pablo Escobar (the punch line is the guy is a skinny white dude).
-end scene

Fett on May 5, 2014 at 10:16 PM

Did Biden make his latest observation after recording this oldie?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7oSYhNVaHwY

onlineanalyst on May 5, 2014 at 10:23 PM

Put aside your Manichaean good vs evil nonsense, that still doesn’t explain what “fishing” means. Also, what is an “Allah sock”?

Is it a reference to “Allahpundit”? Or to Allah from Islam?

Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 10:00 PM

You’re playing it too dumb now, it’s all wrong, wrong, you’re doing it wrong.

Bishop on May 5, 2014 at 10:29 PM

It’s too bad Slow Joe had to quote a Republican president rather than a Democrat, huh?

ExpressoBold on May 5, 2014 at 10:30 PM

Put aside your Manichaean good vs evil nonsense, that still doesn’t explain what “fishing” means. Also, what is an “Allah sock”?

Is it a reference to “Allahpundit”? Or to Allah from Islam?

Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 10:00 PM

Ok. LOL. I get it. You are messing around with me. Not fair to mess with a BoxHead. fishing..Allah…lol.
“I’m alien Trotsky, nanu nanu. I just arrived on your planet.”
or maybe you are Trotsky unfrozen after 80+ year. OK. You got me this time. I’m not falling for it again though, Allah.

BoxHead1 on May 5, 2014 at 10:33 PM

Ice pick. Mexico City. Get some. That is all.

Kenosha Kid on May 5, 2014 at 10:34 PM

You’re playing it too dumb now, it’s all wrong, wrong, you’re doing it wrong.

Bishop on May 5, 2014 at 10:29 PM

Just because someone doesn’t take the time to study every aspect of your lingo doesn’t mean they are dumb.

I can guess that when you talk about fishing, you mean “picking a fight”. I’m not sure, though, so I asked.

I think a lot of your ideas are dumb too, but you don’t see me harping on you for not knowing even the basics of Marxist theory. I will point out that Marxism has a much richer intellectual history than your internet games. In fact, despite US academia’s general intellectual timidity, there are many mainstream universities where serious scholars continue to use Marxist analysis.

You are denigrating a serious academic discipline, and moral and political philosophy, simply because you don’t understand it.

If you really want to understand the world, rather than just spout right-wing talking points on the internet, you should click over to wsws.org, and read it with an open mind. You will quickly see that there is a lot more to these ideas than you are giving credit for.

Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 10:46 PM

AMNESTY……it’s what’s for dinner in November at the polls for Progressive Democrats.

Viva the lying traitors of DC………in both parties.

The future in Meximerica belongs to THE TEATERS!!!!

Latch on Mejico, we are the big breasted Americanos.

Heck let’s empty Central America too.

PappyD61 on May 5, 2014 at 10:49 PM

Too bad we can’t deport all the liberals to Mexico.

GarandFan on May 5, 2014 at 10:50 PM

They’re not Americans

They’re Democrats.

TexasJew on May 5, 2014 at 11:00 PM

Ok. LOL. I get it. You are messing around with me. Not fair to mess with a BoxHead. fishing..Allah…lol.
“I’m alien Trotsky, nanu nanu. I just arrived on your planet.”
or maybe you are Trotsky unfrozen after 80+ year. OK. You got me this time. I’m not falling for it again though, Allah.

BoxHead1 on May 5, 2014 at 10:33 PM

Not everyone has spent as much time on the internet as you apparently have. I have spent years of my life working extremely hard to contribute to a serious intellectual tradition, and for most of those years, the ability to comment on an online forum such as this one simply did not exist.

I would guess from your mannerisms that both you and Bishop are from the younger crowd. That is all well and good, but it is not a reason to assume that when someone asks for clarification on what seems to be in-group lingo, they are not asking in good faith.

Honestly, some of you here come across as school-yard bullies sometimes.

Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 11:07 PM

Ice pick. Mexico City. Get some. That is all.

Kenosha Kid on May 5, 2014 at 10:34 PM

I like your style.
Thread winner. Close it out. Also get some, with ice pick reference ftw. That is all.

Fett on May 5, 2014 at 11:10 PM

Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 11:07 PM

It’s the opposite kid.* Bishop and myself are old enough to remember when there were people who really were trotskyists and stalinists and moaists and sandanistas and castro admirers and Khmer Rouge apologists and all manor of ungodly ogres and witches walked the earth.

Your infatuation is old news. Read some Hayek as a cure. Try The Road to Serfdom. If you can get through those runon sentences in some boring trotsky translations (or a chunk of the painful nonsense that is Das Kapital) then Hayek should be accessible to you.

*This is all assuming that you are not trolling. Otherwise you got me 2wice.

BoxHead1 on May 5, 2014 at 11:21 PM

ManorManner

BoxHead1 on May 5, 2014 at 11:21 PM

That is all well and good, but it is not a reason to assume that when someone asks for clarification on what seems to be in-group lingo, they are not asking in good faith.

As previously established, the irrelevant pedantry was the rather glaring indicator of mala fides, not your post-hoc assumptions about others’ ages.

I have spent years of my life working extremely hard to contribute to a serious intellectual tradition

Please tell us you’re a parody account trolling for lulz… because that is comedy gold! I have great respect for anyone who can tread that fine satirical line between pants-on-head absurd and yet not entirely unbelievable. No, wait, don’t tell us, I think not knowing is more fun!

CapnObvious on May 5, 2014 at 11:30 PM

I live in WA State where anyone can REGISTER AND VOTE BY MAIL without ever showing any evidence of voter eligibility or proof of citizenship. Many addresses have dozens of ‘registered voters’.

Our voter fraud is extreme, but denied and ignored by the solidly Democrat party in iron-fist control.

Every illegal has a vote – or twelve!

Tard on May 5, 2014 at 11:38 PM

…Marxist theory.
Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 9:54 PM

Theory. Something to be tested and examined scientifically for validity. Every single attempt at implementation of this theory has resulted in genocide, totalitarianism, famine, and an overall degradation in the overall human condition. The evidence, empirically and unquestionably, shows the theory is crap.

On the subject of the actual post, these illegals commit identity theft, tax fraud, and financial fraud on a massive scale. They are not Americans. They are pillaging invaders, and need to be opposed like any other hostile force.

Asurea on May 5, 2014 at 11:41 PM

It’s too bad Slow Joe had to quote a Republican president rather than a Democrat, huh?

ExpressoBold on May 5, 2014 at 10:30 PM

I’m sure he thought he was demonstrating bi-partisan support for his position; too bad his reading comprehension of Teddy’s words is so low.

AesopFan on May 5, 2014 at 11:52 PM

How to become an American, according to Joe Biden…

Cross the border illegally tomorrow, or on any day, and you are instantly an American citizen. Biden wishes he could give you a voter’s registration card the moment your back foot hits US soil.

You instantly qualify for food stamps, Medicaid, a free cell phone, and whatever other welfare benefits the US government hands out — all paid for by other people’s money.

farsighted on May 6, 2014 at 12:32 AM

“The definition of Teddy Roosevelt, who said, ‘Americanism is not a question of birthplace or creed, or line of descent, it’s a question of principles, idealism and character.’

So what’s your nationality Joe? All you have is idealism. You certainly have no principles or character.

Vince on May 6, 2014 at 12:39 AM

If you really want to understand the world, rather than just spout right-wing talking points on the internet, you should click over to wsws.org, and read it with an open mind. You will quickly see that there is a lot more to these ideas than you are giving credit for.

Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 10:46 PM

World Socialist Web Site is where you spend your time? You are beyond hope and I consider you an enemy.

Vince on May 6, 2014 at 12:48 AM

Not everyone has spent as much time on the internet as you apparently have. I have spent years of my life working extremely hard to contribute to a serious intellectual tradition, and for most of those years, the ability to comment on an online forum such as this one simply did not exist.

I would guess from your mannerisms that both you and Bishop are from the younger crowd. That is all well and good, but it is not a reason to assume that when someone asks for clarification on what seems to be in-group lingo, they are not asking in good faith.

Honestly, some of you here come across as school-yard bullies sometimes.

Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 11:07 PM

Socialism isn’t a serious intellectual tradition. It’s a staging ground for people who like to mow other people down with tanks under the guise of establishing international norms.

The only socialist countries that aren’t violent basket cases are the ones that either Hitler, Stalin, or some Latin American equivalent didn’t have the military capability to successfully invade, so they used subterfuge to manipulate their governments from within instead.

BKennedy on May 6, 2014 at 1:28 AM

Oh, and I suppose there’s a second category of socialist countries that aren’t violent basket cases: The one’s we wrested from control of aforementioned leftist regimes, or that got out from under the iron boot of Communism after the USSR collapsed, that have since emphasized demilitarization either through preference or a signed agreement.

BKennedy on May 6, 2014 at 1:32 AM

Honestly, some of you here come across as school-yard bullies sometimes.

Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 11:07 PM

I remember guys like you, I used to shoot at them in a jungle environment.

hip shot on May 6, 2014 at 2:02 AM

Could it be that someone is actually waving to Biden in the top pic?

Nah, no way.

Sherman1864 on May 6, 2014 at 3:13 AM

Trotsky on May 5, 2014 at 11:07 PM

Trotsky, you may not have spent much time on the internet to date, but you are certainly making up for lost time on this thread.

And you don’t need a tutorial to learn the lingo, just use your mighty analytical ability.

Don’t expect to find many Friends of Trotsky on HA, and don’t waste your time trying to make us waste our time indoctrinating ourselves in Socialism.

We are not purchasing what you are offering, as it were.

However you are most definitely “Hot to Trotsky”.

Sherman1864 on May 6, 2014 at 3:23 AM

Sorry Joe, but the illegal immigrants coming from the southern border (let’s call them Mexicans) are not “Americans”. Yes, they are of North America.
If they are granted amnesty they will become Americans in name only.
I have family and friends who are from Mexico, while they may benefit from citizenship they are Mexican loyalists to the bone. By the way this seems to be typical of many latin American’s today.
My wife’s family and friends commonly ask me, “Why [I] don’t speak Spanish?”
To which I reply, “Because you asked me in English and we don’t live in (blank).”

kregg on May 6, 2014 at 5:39 AM

Ah, so we can totally now understand Boehner’s logic on the issue… /sarcasm

Ukiah on May 6, 2014 at 7:14 AM

If they’re Americans – why do so many send so much of their income back to Mexico?

Wonder how many would “self-deport” if there were no jobs and no freebies? Wonder how many would stay if the economic situation in Mexico and southward improved? How many would stay due to some deep desire to become Americans?

I tend to question the Americanization of any group that stays completely within their ethnic community. IMO they don’t want to actually become Americans – they just want the advantages of the country.

katiejane on May 6, 2014 at 7:31 AM

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