Rand Paul: Let’s face it, it’s going to be difficult to repeal ObamaCare at this point

posted at 3:21 pm on April 28, 2014 by Allahpundit

Interestingly, it’s Cathy McMorris-Rodgers’s comments about “reforming” rather than repealing the O-Care exchanges that drew most of the blog chatter this weekend, not Rand’s equally eyebrow-raising remarks at Harvard on Friday. Is that because McMorris-Rodgers is guilty of a double heresy, having forecast a new amnesty push this summer too? Or is it because Paul’s conservative bona fides are still in good standing whereas no one trusts the House leadership on anything anymore, starting with ObamaCare? Whatever the reason, McMorris-Rodgers issued a statement this morning aimed at the gullible optimists among us insisting that she’s on Team Repeal all the way. Whew.

What about Rand, though? I can’t find video or a transcript of what he said in Cambridge; National Review says that he reiterated his strong opposition to ObamaCare but was fatalistic about repealing it — in the near-term at least. The Hill’s account makes it sound like his time horizon was longer than that, though:

“I think it’s going to be difficult to turn the clock back. People get assumed and accustomed to receiving things, particularly things that they get for free,” he told a crowd of students at Harvard’s Institute of Politics on Friday…

“I think one of the practical things you might be able to do, and I think the public at large might accept this, is to make ObamaCare voluntary. You make it voluntary, basically you get rid of the coercion,” he said, presumably by eliminating the penalty those without insurance are required to pay, known as the individual mandate.

He said he may keep some parts of the law, like the subsidies to help poor Americans afford insurance, or the Medicaid expansion — two of ObamaCare’s more popular provisions but potentially its more expensive.

“Does that get rid of the subsidies? Not necessarily, or the Medicaid. But I think also we’re going to find out we can’t afford to have everybody on Medicaid, we can’t afford to have everybody on subsidized insurance,” Paul said.

Alternate headline: “Ted Cruz’s ad team pulls all-nighter” — which would be ironic, since Paul’s logic here about the difficulty of weaning people off subsidies once they’ve begun is the same as Cruz’s was back in October in pushing the “defund” effort (which Paul tepidly supported). All Rand’s saying, really, is that repeal becomes much harder once a program’s in place and people have come to rely on it. Cruz couldn’t agree more, I assume, which is not to say he won’t have lots of fun punishing Paul for his “defeatism” in the primaries.

In a sense, all he’s giving you here is the ObamaCare version of his straight talk on abortion with David Axelrod. America’s not going to change its abortion laws, he said, because there isn’t enough consensus to do so. There may be enough consensus to draw a firm legal line at third-trimester abortions but there certainly isn’t a consensus for an all-out ban like social cons want. The trick for voters is deciding how much of that statement is descriptive and how much is prescriptive. How much political capital would President Paul devote to shaping a consensus on abortion? How much would he devote to shaping a consensus on ObamaCare’s repeal? The first requirement of a tea-party champion is that he resist establishment conventional wisdom and fight for his principles, even if he’s all but guaranteed to lose. It was Cruz’s insight that he could win politically that way by leading on “defund” even though he was destined to lose on the merits. I don’t know why, frankly, Paul would leave himself open to attacks from Cruz on that point by taking these quasi-fatalistic views about hot-button conservative issues. Presumably it’s because his top priority is showing the establishment that he can play nice, and hinting that he wouldn’t rock the boat terribly much on abortion and, especially, ObamaCare is one way to do that. But he’s got to get through the primaries first. Why make things easier on Cruz?

As for the merits, I don’t think repealing the mandate would do much to weaken the overall law at this point. It would be a moral victory insofar as it jettisoned the most overtly coercive element of O-Care, the one that got away at the Supreme Court two years ago, but yanking it out of the ObamaCare jenga tower now wouldn’t topple the whole structure. That might have happened if the Court had struck it down before the exchanges launched; without the mandate in place scaring twentysomethings into buying insurance this year, the risk pools might have been overloaded with the old and sick, premiums might have shot up in 2015, and suddenly we’re in death-spiral country. As it is, they’ve got somewhere between six million and eight million paying customers enrolled, roughly 28 percent of whom are “young invincibles.” That’s well short of their target of 39 percent last year but enough that premiums aren’t expected to skyrocket next year to make up for missing revenue. But even if the mandate had been nullified by the Supremes, that still might not have nuked O-Care; remember, for all intents and purposes, the mandate has already been repealed. It’s basically hortatory, a nudge to adults (especially young adults) to sign up but not something that’s being seriously enforced. It was the White House PR outreach to twentysomethings that did most of the work in getting them to sign up, I think, not the mandate. In which case, what’s really achieved at this point by getting rid of it?

Exit question: If we drop the mandate and keep the exchanges and the subsidies and the Medicaid expansion, as Paul envisions, then we’re basically adopting O-Care, right?


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joana is the one doing the trolling here…

OmahaConservative on April 28, 2014 at 4:48 PM

Regardless, my advice still stands.

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 4:50 PM

But the voters like the law.

coolrepublica on April 28, 2014 at 4:42 PM

No. Not really. But push-polls want people to like the law.

And before we get into the tall weeds of polling internals – remember this – the worst of the law is yet to hit. Obama has kicked that can past the Mid-Terms. Now why do you suppose that is?

Augustinian on April 28, 2014 at 4:50 PM

lineholder on April 28, 2014 at 4:47 PM

Great points. I don’t think they’re naive, I’m just not sure if they want the job (and if they didn’t, I would certainly understand why not).

And you’re right, they didn’t behave as if it couldn’t be done in their own states. Courage and persistence are everything.

Missy on April 28, 2014 at 4:51 PM

Who cares about the name calling? You guys are way too sensitive. She’s making an actual argument. Good or bad, it’s an argument. A real argument. So deal with the argument. If the names she’s calling you make you weepy, my suggestion is to stop being such a p****y.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:51 PM

joana,

You need to realize when you are being trolled. Stick to the issues. Don’t get defensive. Don’t call people liars or morons: especially if they are.

Hearts and Minds.

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 4:46 PM

Oh look, it’s a love match. Haven’t been paying attention much have you? Joana, comes on here and screeches about labels NO ONE calls her, although while calling us “crazies” “trucons” etc.

melle1228 on April 28, 2014 at 4:52 PM

Hillary/Paul, 2016, together

Schadenfreude on April 28, 2014 at 3:22 PM

Well, now you’re going to make Jebbie jealous:-)

bluefox on April 28, 2014 at 4:52 PM

Translation: the Whigs became the Republicans with a change in leadership and party identity. The Republicans were not a third party.

Akzed on April 28, 2014 at 4:05 PM

Whig Party: 1833 – 1860
Republican Party: 1854 – Present

From 1854 – 1860, Republicans were a third party.

Note that the Whigs dissolved in 1860, only 6 years after the split.

Now you might argue that the Republican party has been taken over so that it reflects the ideological views that doomed the Whig party… and I would agree. Which was my point in posting the information…

dominigan on April 28, 2014 at 4:52 PM

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:51 PM

We dealt with here in the months before the last election. She is an insufferable, hateful Troll. She is not here to make points. She is strictly here to antagonize and propagandize.

kingsjester on April 28, 2014 at 4:53 PM

Regardless, my advice still stands.

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 4:50 PM

Your advice is still equally worthless.

You didn’t successfully troll today, but you do get some lovely parting gifts, like a copy of the “HotAir” home game!

Oh, and a Romney/Ryan 2012 bumper sticker. To remind you of the good times.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 4:53 PM

If you’re an American constitutional libertarian and the SCOTUS has declared a program constitutional, what else can you believe?

Knott Buyinit on April 28, 2014 at 4:13 PM

feds argued it wasn’t a tax.
roberts rewrote their arguments and called it a tax so that he could call it constitutional.
now you owe a tax just for being alive.
scotus also called slavery constitutional. you see something different now??

dmacleo on April 28, 2014 at 4:53 PM

We dealt with here in the months before the last election. She is an insufferable, hateful Troll. She is not here to make points. She is strictly here to antagonize and propagandize.

kingsjester on April 28, 2014 at 4:53 PM

+10000

Yep, Panther and Meredith’s nasty love child..

melle1228 on April 28, 2014 at 4:54 PM

TRAITOR

weedisgood on April 28, 2014 at 4:54 PM

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:51 PM

I have not seen any “argument” from joana. She simply asserts an omnipotent view of reality and insults anyone who disagrees.

gh on April 28, 2014 at 4:54 PM

King’s Jester,

We dealt with here in the months before the last election. She is an insufferable, hateful Troll. She is not here to make points. She is strictly here to antagonize and propagandize.

I believe you. But she’s a fun and informed troll, so why not have fun with her? There’s a reason why she gets so many responses to her posts.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:56 PM

Who cares about the name calling? You guys are way too sensitive. She’s making an actual argument. Good or bad, it’s an argument. A real argument. So deal with the argument. If the names she’s calling you make you weepy, my suggestion is to stop being such a p****y.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:51 PM

OMG, who cares what the twit call me. I just find it increasing humorous how she cries and whines about the RINO label all in the same breath screeching “TRUCON, TRUCON, TRUCON.”

melle1228 on April 28, 2014 at 4:56 PM

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:56 PM

No. Neither fun, nor informed.

gh on April 28, 2014 at 4:57 PM

Oh yeah, totally. You’re so optimistic that you think we can’t simply repeal it with a GOP President and Congress, and as proof, you state that we didn’t repeal Medicare and Medicaid once we had the “trifecta”…THIRTY SIX ****ING YEARS after Medicaid was passed.

But hey, I’m the one who shamelessly lies. I’d say you’re the pot calling the kettle black, but that might get me put in the pillory with Bundy and Sterling for being raaaaaacist.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 4:39 PM

I never lie. You might disagree with my opinions, but I’m sure you’ll never be able to call me a liar without perjuring yourself. If you want to suggest I’m a liar, have the character to quote my alleged “lie”. You won’t.

Again, why hasn’t the GOP repealed Medicare? It doesn’t matter the age of the laws, only their popularity. Politicians tend to vote according to the wishes of the voting public – that’s what Paul was trying to explain. No amount of trucon screaming will change that.

Therefore the smart thing to do is to think of ways that would allow politicians to repeal Obamacare without having to vote for the repeal of popular provisions.

Of course, “trucons” like you don’t really care about policy or legislation. You care about grandstanding. You don’t want to get rid of Obamacare because it’s bad policy; you’d probably be sad and empty if Obamacare didn’t exist as a wedge issue because it’d mean you wouldn’t be able to express your righteous indignation about it. That’s what politics is for you: a space to air your grievances and to express your emotions.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:57 PM

I think the swiss system is what we’ll follow in the future. Medicaid and Medicare rolled into a premium support model with rich subsidies.

I like the swiss system quite a lot but HA posters would probably hate it.

uatu1878 on April 28, 2014 at 4:57 PM

I believe you. But she’s a fun and informed troll, so why not have fun with her? There’s a reason why she gets so many responses to her posts.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:56 PM

It gets really old pretty fast, trust us…

OmahaConservative on April 28, 2014 at 4:57 PM

Nice deflection Skip, but answer the fvcking question. How does Paul “spend less” without dealing with the 17 trillion dollar eyesore that is Obamacare.

melle1228 on April 28, 2014 at 4:50 PM

He won’t do it without dealing with Obamacare. None of the GOP potential candidates said that if President they would not attempt to “Deal with” Obamacare. But both he and Cruz said that repealing it will be hard once it’s implemented.

Relax: we are on the same team. We all have the same goals with regards to Obamacare.

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 4:58 PM

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:56 PM

It is fun to play with her and slap back her ignorant rants, but, she becomes very tiresome after awhile.

kingsjester on April 28, 2014 at 4:58 PM

joana,

You need to realize when you are being trolled. Stick to the issues. Don’t get defensive. Don’t call people liars or morons: especially if they are.

Hearts and Minds.

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 4:46 PM

The bolded part is especially nice.

“Don’t condescend to anyone even if we know they’re not as smart as we are.”

Bishop on April 28, 2014 at 4:59 PM

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 4:58 PM

The Hell we are.

kingsjester on April 28, 2014 at 5:00 PM

The Hell we are.

kingsjester on April 28, 2014 at 5:00 PM

+10000

melle1228 on April 28, 2014 at 5:01 PM

gh,

I have not seen any “argument” from joana. She simply asserts an omnipotent view of reality and insults anyone who disagrees.

No, Joana’s made a couple of establishment GOP arguments as well as they can be made.

1) Change is hard, so we Republicans need to give up on idealistic reform and start trying to elect the next iteration of Bush or whoever the establishment puts in as 2016′s Bush placeholder.

2) Obamacare is the new Medicare, and parts of it are super popular, so don’t expect any serious attempt at repeal by the GOP.

I don’t like reading that stuff, but they’re serious arguments and you’ll be hearing them again come election time.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 5:01 PM

Omaha Conservatove,

It gets really old pretty fast, trust us…

All I know is that I’ve seen her in two threads today, and they both were white-hot with posting traffic.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 5:02 PM

Bishop on April 28, 2014 at 4:59 PM

The air is so thick with contempt towards Conservatives that you could cut it with a knife, as the saying goes.

I’ve only met two Libertarians who were actually open-minded enough to not only listen to Conservatives but also understand why we have the viewpoint we have.

joana and skipity are not those two people.

lineholder on April 28, 2014 at 5:03 PM

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:57 PM

Hmmm, lie is such a strong word. I believe you have been mistaken though.

Cindy Munford on April 28, 2014 at 5:04 PM

I think the swiss system is what we’ll follow in the future. Medicaid and Medicare rolled into a premium support model with rich subsidies.

I like the swiss system quite a lot but HA posters would probably hate it.

uatu1878 on April 28, 2014 at 4:57 PM

They’ll like whatever Levin and the likes tell them to like. Just like a liberal nuts like you will simply parrot what Krugman or Maddow tells you to like. In the Swiss system, participation in the program is mandatory to everyone, not just those that would be enrolled in Medicare and Medicaid in the US. It’s basically a single-payer system.

What the single-payer system idiotic defenders are too dumb to understand is that countries like Switzerland can have that sort of system because they free-ride the US health-care system. So the rationing they impose to keep the costs under control doesn’t affect the quality of care.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 5:05 PM

Joana,

Who are you and what have you done to the men in this fine establishment?

I actually haven’t read your comments, but the reactions tells me you are pissing a lot of people off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsklsxReSe0

coolrepublica on April 28, 2014 at 5:05 PM

The bolded part is especially nice.

“Don’t condescend to anyone even if we know they’re not as smart as we are.”

Bishop on April 28, 2014 at 4:59 PM

Hmmm, lie is such a strong word. I believe you have been mistaken though.

Cindy Munford on April 28, 2014 at 5:04 PM

You are all just wacko, crazy trucons. :)

melle1228 on April 28, 2014 at 5:05 PM

I never lie. You might disagree with my opinions, but I’m sure you’ll never be able to call me a liar without perjuring yourself. If you want to suggest I’m a liar, have the character to quote my alleged “lie”. You won’t.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:57 PM

It’s not my fault if you’re too stupid to understand your own analogies, cupcake.

Oh, and here’s a lie:

Of course, “trucons” like you don’t really care about policy or legislation.

This is a blatant lie. Of course “TruCons” care about policy. You’re the one who sees politics as just another spectator sport; root for Team R over Team D.

You don’t want to get rid of Obamacare because it’s bad policy;

That’s exactly why I want to get rid of it. It’s why I’d favor repeal over these ridiculous shell games to enfeeble it. So again, this is a lie, and you know it; you know that the people you disagree with dislike Obamacare because it’s bad policy. You know you’re simply asserting bad faith here, but you’ll pretend you “never lie.”

you’d probably be sad and empty if Obamacare didn’t exist as a wedge issue because it’d mean you wouldn’t be able to express your righteous indignation about it.

Supposition with no evidence to back it up.

That’s what politics is for you: a space to air your grievances and to express your emotions.

Supposition with no evidence to back it up. Noticing a pattern?

You’ve been hectoring this entire site minus two or three people who agree with you for hours, doing nothing but asserting supremacy on knowledge of the issues/politics/the American system, and we’re the ones grandstanding? You even said above that you don’t think anything said here will actually influence the election. In other words, all you’re doing is feeding your ego. Is that what “politics is for you”? A vehicle for your misplaced arrogance because you lack the competencies/skills to be acknowledged as superior at any other activity besides shouting at people over the internet?

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 5:05 PM

Ahhhh the good old days.

I couldn’t care less about selling anything. I never presented Romney as a conservative – as I said, I never voted for Romney, never called him a conservative, even voted for his primary opponents – but I think only religious freaks would consider GWB a conservative (because of his stances on gays, etc.). He certainly was no friend of fiscal and economic conservatives. My only agenda is to discuss the issues and express my point-of-views. I don’t have much positive to say about these candidates and I’m not going to lie.

joana on February 14, 2012 at 8:19 PM

Can you please try to avoid the name-calling? Thank you.

Promising to cut taxes – even cutting them – is quite easy. Even Obama cut taxes! I learned my lesson with him and Bush.

The true level of taxation is measured by spending – sooner or later, the government will need to collect taxes to pay for it.

Santorum’s record on spending speaks for itself.

joana on February 14, 2012 at 6:36 PM

MontanaMmmm on April 28, 2014 at 5:05 PM

They’ll like whatever Levin and the likes tell them to like.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 5:05 PM

Nice, another assertion of bad faith. I’ve never even listened to Mark Levin. So yeah, you’re lying again. Seems like you do that a lot.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 5:06 PM

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 5:01 PM

They are neither arguments nor serious. From joana they are propaganda and from the GOP establishment, they are surrender.

Taken literally, Rand’s assertion: “it’s going to be difficult to repeal ObamaCare at this point” is perfectly true. If a republican is elected president in 2016, it will be less so. The problem is that nominating Romney or Jeb is very likely to result in president Hillary. Romney already has a track-record.

gh on April 28, 2014 at 5:07 PM

lineholder on April 28, 2014 at 5:03 PM

Ah shucks liney, you saying you wanna meet?

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 5:07 PM

uatu1878 on April 28, 2014 at 4:57 PM

It has more benefits than a single payer, that’s for certain.

I think we would be better off developing a hybrid that covers a base for public health and allows citizens the options of purchasing supplemental insurance above and beyond that point. State level managed, not federal (smaller countries have more local control over their systems than we do).

lineholder on April 28, 2014 at 5:08 PM

lineholder on April 28, 2014 at 5:03 PM

When you’re the Smartest People in any room it can become aggravating having to explain even the smallest details. We should applaud them for having the patience to deal with us and our undeveloped intellects.

Bishop on April 28, 2014 at 5:08 PM

Guess Ted Cruz was right. Our last chance was the government shutdown.

IT’S NEVER FREAKIN’ TOO LATE ! This is America. If we want it gone, we can do it !

stenwin77 on April 28, 2014 at 5:08 PM

lineholder on April 28, 2014 at 5:08 PM

And my biggest reason for considering that is to take the option of single payer away from Dems.

lineholder on April 28, 2014 at 5:09 PM

AP, this blog is FAR more defeatist than Paul’s statements. Sheesh.

cdog0613 on April 28, 2014 at 5:09 PM

Again, why hasn’t the GOP repealed Medicare?

Because by the time they had the chance it was almost 40 years old and entitlements almost inevitably get more popular/harder to repeal with age.

It doesn’t matter the age of the laws, only their popularity.

And as entitlements age, they get more entrenched. As they get more entrenched, people see them as a “right.” And people hate when politicians take “rights” away from them.

So, again, you’re comparing repealing something that hasn’t even been fully implemented with something that was passed 36 years before the GOP had a fighting chance to repeal it.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 5:10 PM

Joana,

Who are you and what have you done to the men in this fine establishment?

I actually haven’t read your comments, but the reactions tells me you are pissing a lot of people off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hsklsxReSe0

coolrepublica on April 28, 2014 at 5:05 PM

You once corrected me, so I’ll do the same for you. We aren’t all men here. I know you like to think so, but it isn’t the truth. Joana has a long history of, well histrionics on Hotair, and she likes to be the center of attention. She shouldn’t be too shocked with the blowback when she gets on a site full of conservatives and rages about conservatives.

melle1228 on April 28, 2014 at 5:10 PM

very discouraging to hear rand paul say things like that….he just lost my vote……….CRUZ ’16

clandestine on April 28, 2014 at 5:10 PM

When you’re the Smartest People in any room it can become aggravating having to explain even the smallest details. We should applaud them for having the patience to deal with us and our undeveloped intellects.

Bishop on April 28, 2014 at 5:08 PM

Its a burden isn’t it? I must say we handle it well though.

dmacleo on April 28, 2014 at 5:10 PM

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 5:02 PM

Never said her crap doesn’t generate comments…

OmahaConservative on April 28, 2014 at 5:11 PM

melle1228 on April 28, 2014 at 5:05 PM

I know, ain’t it cool?

Cindy Munford on April 28, 2014 at 5:11 PM

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 5:07 PM

Personally, I like thinking outside the box. The more outside the box it gets, the more I like it.

But that’s with other people who can actually participate in a little brainstorming rather than get their undies in a wad (if you get my drift)

lineholder on April 28, 2014 at 5:11 PM

Never said her crap doesn’t generate comments…

OmahaConservative on April 28, 2014 at 5:11 PM

LOL– So does a monkey playing the bongos on youtube.. Doesn’t mean it passes for intelligent discourse.. LMAO!

melle1228 on April 28, 2014 at 5:12 PM

joana,

You need to realize when you are being trolled. Stick to the issues. Don’t get defensive. Don’t call people liars or morons: especially if they are.

Hearts and Minds.

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 4:46 PM

Thanks, but I’m not here to proselytize -especially the dimwits- or make friends.

The air is so thick with contempt towards Conservatives that you could cut it with a knife, as the saying goes.

I’ve only met two Libertarians who were actually open-minded enough to not only listen to Conservatives but also understand why we have the viewpoint we have.

joana and skipity are not those two people.

lineholder on April 28, 2014 at 5:03 PM

I don’t know who that skipity person is, but I’m far from being a libertarian.

And I don’t have contempt toward Conservatives; I’m one of them. All my philosophical, ideological and political references are conservatives – from the classical liberal branches to more traditionalist ones: Burke and Hayek, Kirk and Meyer, Friedman and De Soto, Thatcher and Reagan.

I do have contempt toward the illiterate, over-emotional, trucons that populate these comments; I admit I could put more effort into hiding it but I don’t really see the point.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 5:12 PM

Rand Paul has essentially become a GOP establishment/RINO politician that the Code Pink crowd really likes. Meet the new Lincoln Chafee.
I expect him to endorse a Democrat for President in the future after he fails to win the nomination.

MWC_RS on April 28, 2014 at 5:13 PM

We are not descended from fearful men. Not from men who fear to write, to speak, to associate, and to defend causes that were for the moment unpopular.

Edward R. Murrow

Come on Republicans, grow a pair.

Barred on April 28, 2014 at 5:13 PM

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 5:02 PM

If this site is just about comment count/blog hits, just drop any pretense of reporting and make every thread “Gay gun-grabbers who hate Sarah Palin say they’ve proven that God doesn’t exist.”

5,000 comments or bust.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 5:14 PM

I know, ain’t it cool?

Cindy Munford on April 28, 2014 at 5:11 PM

Joana’s just mad we turned her down as a member for the “trucon club,” and she couldn’t get her free Mark Levin decoder ring.

melle1228 on April 28, 2014 at 5:14 PM

No, Obamacare is a regulatory approach, as well as an individual mandate.
Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:48 PM

Ah. Good point. Thanks.

Cleombrotus on April 28, 2014 at 5:14 PM

LOL– So does a monkey playing the bongos on youtube.. Doesn’t mean it passes for intelligent discourse.. LMAO!

melle1228 on April 28, 2014 at 5:12 PM

Ain’t that the truth, LOLZ!

OmahaConservative on April 28, 2014 at 5:15 PM

No, Obamacare is a regulatory approach, as well as an individual mandate.
Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:48 PM

In other words, Obamacare is also about government control of the healthcare system, is that correct?

Cleombrotus on April 28, 2014 at 5:16 PM

Why am I suddenly hungry for some pastry?

MontanaMmmm on April 28, 2014 at 5:17 PM

And I don’t have contempt toward Conservatives; I’m one of them. All my philosophical, ideological and political references are conservatives – from the classical liberal branches to more traditionalist ones: Burke and Hayek, Kirk and Meyer, Friedman and De Soto, Thatcher and Reagan.

I do have contempt toward the illiterate, over-emotional, trucons that populate these comments; I admit I could put more effort into hiding it but I don’t really see the point.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 5:12 PM

LOL. Ayn? Is that you?

gh on April 28, 2014 at 5:18 PM

Good Solid B-Plus,

If this site is just about comment count/blog hits, just drop any pretense of reporting and make every thread “Gay gun-grabbers who hate Sarah Palin say they’ve proven that God doesn’t exist.”

5,000 comments or bust.

Omaha Conservative’s point was that Joana’s shtick was “tiresome” if you read it for a while. But many posters seem to know her quite well and still respond to her posts, which I wouldn’t expect if they were truly tired of her.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 5:18 PM

No, Joana’s made a couple of establishment GOP arguments as well as they can be made.

1) Change is hard, so we Republicans need to give up on idealistic reform and start trying to elect the next iteration of Bush or whoever the establishment puts in as 2016′s Bush placeholder.

2) Obamacare is the new Medicare, and parts of it are super popular, so don’t expect any serious attempt at repeal by the GOP.

I don’t like reading that stuff, but they’re serious arguments and you’ll be hearing them again come election time.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 5:01 PM

You keep showing an amusing inability to comprehend what I write. Like your namesake, you seem to be losing your grip on reality.

1) Republicans don’t need to give up anything. This isn’t a zero-sum game. Republicans have passed dozens of bills repealing Obamacare in the House and they can keep doing it. They can even pass it in the Senate if they can gain control of it. That won’t actually go anywhere policy wise, but it serves to excite the base – or the part of the base composed by the kind of people that are impressed by that type of thing.

2) Parts of Obamacare are extremely popular so it’s wiser to repeal Obamacare without directly repealing those parts – they’ll eventually die on their own – otherwise you’re only repealing Obamacare to deal with Obamacare 2.0 a couple of years later.

Seems easy to understand for me.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 5:18 PM

lineholder on April 28, 2014 at 5:11 PM

We really are in agreement. I think the vitriol should be reserved for the Harry Reids, Pelosis and McCains of the world.

A backhanded complement or a snide comment is one thing, but I don’t like to see our side shouting Liar at each other. You wouldnt’ see that on HuffGlue or DailyPos. I’d like to think we conform to a higher standard than their.

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 5:18 PM

Name one major government program that has been repealed? Not one

Reformed yes, but repealed no

Redford on April 28, 2014 at 5:18 PM

Why am I suddenly hungry for some pastry?

MontanaMmmm on April 28, 2014 at 5:17 PM

Heh…

OmahaConservative on April 28, 2014 at 5:18 PM

And I don’t have contempt toward Conservatives; I’m one of them.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 5:12 PM

Anyone who agrees with joana is a Conservative. Notice, she capitalizes the C. Almost like a….true Conservative? Hmm….

Anyone who disagrees is a “TruCon.” Oh, and they’re also illiterate.

Life is awesome when you live in a tautology, isn’t it? Makes decisions so simple. Everyone who agrees with me is good. Everyone who disagrees is bad.

Also, the irony is fantastic. “TruCon” is used as a deprecating sobriquet to describe people within the GOP who considered themselves the arbiters of purity. They would decide who was a “true” conservative.

You know, sort of like joana does with an entire site of people who disagree with her. How strange….

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 5:19 PM

Name one major government program that has been repealed?

Communism was pretty big in Russia.

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 5:19 PM

melle1228 on April 28, 2014 at 5:14 PM

D*R*I*N*K*O*V*A*L*T*I*N*E

Cindy Munford on April 28, 2014 at 5:20 PM

Omaha Conservative’s point was that Joana’s shtick was “tiresome” if you read it for a while. But many posters seem to know her quite well and still respond to her posts, which I wouldn’t expect if they were truly tired of her.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 5:18 PM

I don’t remember her posting for two years or so. It’s fun to bat someone around for a day, but if she keeps it up, I hope people just start to ignore her. Then she’ll disappear again. Which is exactly what happened two years ago.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 5:21 PM

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 5:18 PM

We may have points of agreement, but we don’t necessarily have the same priorities.

Very large source of conflict right there, I think.

lineholder on April 28, 2014 at 5:21 PM

LOL. Ayn? Is that you?

gh on April 28, 2014 at 5:18 PM

No. What Ayn? Ayn Rand? I’m not a libertarian and I can’t stand objectivism or Ayn Rand (who was just as bad as Trucons, just more well-read and smarter). Why would I cite Burke or Russell Kirk if I liked Ayn Rand?

joana on April 28, 2014 at 5:21 PM

I do have contempt toward the illiterate, over-emotional, trucons that populate these comments; I admit I could put more effort into hiding it but I don’t really see the point.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 5:12 PM

I never agreed to such a thing, but hey, flat out and shamelessly lying is what you, isn’t it?

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:31 PM

This is some awesome stuff right here.

Bishop on April 28, 2014 at 5:22 PM

Thanks, but I’m not here to proselytize -especially the dimwits- or make friends.

So what are you here for? To prove you’re right about something to people you don’t care about?

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 5:22 PM

joana on April 28, 2014 at 5:21 PM

“contempt” ?

gh on April 28, 2014 at 5:22 PM

scotus also called slavery constitutional. you see something different now??

dmacleo on April 28, 2014 at 4:53 PM

It was constitutional… They wrote an amendment to make it unconstitutional in the 1860s.

astonerii on April 28, 2014 at 5:23 PM

A backhanded complement or a snide comment is one thing, but I don’t like to see our side shouting Liar at each other. You wouldnt’ see that on HuffGlue or DailyPos. I’d like to think we conform to a higher standard than their.

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 5:18 PM

Well, they probably shouldn’t lie then.

Saying “You don’t actually disagree with Obamacare on policy, you just like having a shiny object to shake your fist at” is blatantly arguing in bad faith and ascribing false beliefs.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 5:23 PM

Cindy Munford on April 28, 2014 at 5:20 PM

ROFL!

lineholder on April 28, 2014 at 5:23 PM

D*R*I*N*K*O*V*A*L*T*I*N*E

Cindy Munford on April 28, 2014 at 5:20 PM

LMAO, I spit my coke out laughing so hard.

melle1228 on April 28, 2014 at 5:25 PM

So what are you here for? To prove you’re right about something to people you don’t care about?

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 5:22 PM

Yes. That’s exactly why she’s here. Getting this many responses fluffs her ego for a bit; eventually, less people will respond to her because her shtick will get boring, and she’ll leave again.

But remember….we’re the ones grandstanding. Joana may be talking past people who she thinks are too ignorant to change their minds, and she may not think her posts have an actual effect on the electorate, but she’s not grandstanding. Because science.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 5:25 PM

This is some awesome stuff right here.

Bishop on April 28, 2014 at 5:22 PM

lol

Are you Bishop trying to say someone calling someone else illiterate and other name calling is bad?

Oh Jesus! I think hell may have frozen over.

coolrepublica on April 28, 2014 at 5:26 PM

fluffs her ego
Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 5:25 PM

She doesn’t like Ayn though.

gh on April 28, 2014 at 5:26 PM

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 5:25 PM

Well it does seem warmer in here.

Cindy Munford on April 28, 2014 at 5:27 PM

Joana,

1) That Republicans haven’t succeeded in repealing Obamacare this year is hardly an indication of how they might do in 2017 – or even earlier with a supermajority.

2) It’s bad politics to garble your message. That was Rand’s mistake. Republicans should be for repealing Obamacare. If at some future time, Republicans see fit to repackage their repeal for a handful of measures, save it for after the election and don’t give Obama credit it – because he doesn’t deserve it.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 5:28 PM

Cindy Munford on April 28, 2014 at 5:27 PM

*waves*

gh on April 28, 2014 at 5:28 PM

gh on April 28, 2014 at 5:28 PM

Hey, Darlin’! Long time no see and I am sure that is more my fault then yours. How is life? Can you imagine what September will be like if the rhetoric is at this level in April? And that’s among people supossedly on the same side?

Cindy Munford on April 28, 2014 at 5:32 PM

1) That Republicans haven’t succeeded in repealing Obamacare this year is hardly an indication of how they might do in 2017 – or even earlier with a supermajority.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 5:28 PM

This is a very good point.

Well, that’s what I would say, but I can’t; alas, I disagree with joana, so God struck me with illiteracy. What are these strange glyphs in front of me? When I peck at them with my fingers, they create equivalent symbols on a magic screen. Perhaps when combined these scribblings have meaning?

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 5:32 PM

Yes. That’s exactly why she’s here. Getting this many responses fluffs her ego for a bit; eventually, less people will respond to her because her shtick will get boring, and she’ll leave again.

But remember….we’re the ones grandstanding. Joana may be talking past people who she thinks are too ignorant to change their minds, and she may not think her posts have an actual effect on the electorate, but she’s not grandstanding. Because science.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 5:25 PM

Can you please stop saying that I “left” because people stop responding to my posts or whatever? Actually, I’d really appreciate if you could stop answering to my posts.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 5:32 PM

Can you please stop saying that I “left” because people stop responding to my posts or whatever? Actually, I’d really appreciate if you could stop answering to my posts.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 5:32 PM

Why, Troll? Truth hurt?

OmahaConservative on April 28, 2014 at 5:35 PM

How is life? Can you imagine what September will be like if the rhetoric is at this level in April?
Cindy Munford on April 28, 2014 at 5:32 PM

Life’s getting busier. Should be working.

As for rhetoric. Shrug. More of the same.

gh on April 28, 2014 at 5:35 PM

Joana,

1) That Republicans haven’t succeeded in repealing Obamacare this year is hardly an indication of how they might do in 2017 – or even earlier with a supermajority.

2) It’s bad politics to garble your message. That was Rand’s mistake. Republicans should be for repealing Obamacare. If at some future time, Republicans see fit to repackage their repeal for a handful of measures, save it for after the election and don’t give Obama credit it – because he doesn’t deserve it.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 5:28 PM

1) A supermajority? Republicans won’t have a supermajority any time soon. As I said, I prefer reality-based scenarios.As I said, they can keep voting Obamacare repeals. It excites part of the base.

2) Oh, so it’s a problem of messaging to you? You’re fine with the policy, you just don’t like that Rand announced it? It’d be fine if he said this after the election? So much for principled stands.

Here’s the thing: the only people who have problems with this message are the “trucons”.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 5:36 PM

I donno if HotAir Admins read the comments, but here’s the video of the entire talk.

http://forum.iop.harvard.edu/content/public-address-senator-rand-paul

If you’d like to update the post.

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 5:36 PM

Are you Bishop trying to say someone calling someone else illiterate and other name calling is bad?

Oh Jesus! I think hell may have frozen over.

coolrepublica on April 28, 2014 at 5:26 PM

You’re not very good at this, are you?

Bishop on April 28, 2014 at 5:36 PM

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 5:36 PM

Try the “tips” email link. Sometimes it works. Sometimes they ignore you.

gh on April 28, 2014 at 5:37 PM

Can you please stop saying that I “left” because people stop responding to my posts or whatever? Actually, I’d really appreciate if you could stop answering to my posts.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 5:32 PM

You did leave. You didn’t post for quite a long time. See, in the “reality-based world,” we call that leaving.

I’ll continue to answer to your posts, btw. You can stop replying, though. It’ll make it much easier for onlookers to see who was right and who had to give up and stop responding.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 5:39 PM

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 5:39 PM

I’m running out of popcorn, damn!

gh on April 28, 2014 at 5:41 PM

gh on April 28, 2014 at 5:35 PM

Work is good, we are amongst the lucky.

Cindy Munford on April 28, 2014 at 5:42 PM

What the hell is a trucon?

Cindy Munford on April 28, 2014 at 5:43 PM

Well, that’s what I would say, but I can’t; alas, I disagree with joana, so God struck me with illiteracy. What are these strange glyphs in front of me? When I peck at them with my fingers, they create equivalent symbols on a magic screen. Perhaps when combined these scribblings have meaning?

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 5:32 PM

Here, I’ll add a disclaimer: The above is called a “joke.” Sometimes, when people are actually having a conversation, a joke can be used to incite merriment and joy in others.

This rarely happens when you’re just being an effusively condescending ****wad, though.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 5:44 PM

You did leave. You didn’t post for quite a long time. See, in the “reality-based world,” we call that leaving.

I’ll continue to answer to your posts, btw. You can stop replying, though. It’ll make it much easier for onlookers to see who was right and who had to give up and stop responding.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 5:39 PM

What I asked you to do is to stop lying about the reasons I stopped posting. I mean, people can simply go back and see nobody stopped replying to my comments.

You can keep answering to my posts, I don’t care that per se. I worry about someone who rarely debates the issue -whatever it might be- and dedicates a large percentage of the posts to talk about me, personally. That’s a bit creepy and those are the posts I’d ask you to curb – that’s a decision you’ll have to make so I’ll leave it at that.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 5:44 PM

What the hell is a trucon?

Cindy Munford on April 28, 2014 at 5:43 PM

I’ve been asking that question since I first heard it mentioned:-)

bluefox on April 28, 2014 at 5:46 PM

What the hell is a trucon?

Cindy Munford on April 28, 2014 at 5:43 PM

Tru * con

Noun

1. Anyone who disagrees with joana.

2. See above. That’s the only definition.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 5:46 PM

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