Rand Paul: Let’s face it, it’s going to be difficult to repeal ObamaCare at this point

posted at 3:21 pm on April 28, 2014 by Allahpundit

Interestingly, it’s Cathy McMorris-Rodgers’s comments about “reforming” rather than repealing the O-Care exchanges that drew most of the blog chatter this weekend, not Rand’s equally eyebrow-raising remarks at Harvard on Friday. Is that because McMorris-Rodgers is guilty of a double heresy, having forecast a new amnesty push this summer too? Or is it because Paul’s conservative bona fides are still in good standing whereas no one trusts the House leadership on anything anymore, starting with ObamaCare? Whatever the reason, McMorris-Rodgers issued a statement this morning aimed at the gullible optimists among us insisting that she’s on Team Repeal all the way. Whew.

What about Rand, though? I can’t find video or a transcript of what he said in Cambridge; National Review says that he reiterated his strong opposition to ObamaCare but was fatalistic about repealing it — in the near-term at least. The Hill’s account makes it sound like his time horizon was longer than that, though:

“I think it’s going to be difficult to turn the clock back. People get assumed and accustomed to receiving things, particularly things that they get for free,” he told a crowd of students at Harvard’s Institute of Politics on Friday…

“I think one of the practical things you might be able to do, and I think the public at large might accept this, is to make ObamaCare voluntary. You make it voluntary, basically you get rid of the coercion,” he said, presumably by eliminating the penalty those without insurance are required to pay, known as the individual mandate.

He said he may keep some parts of the law, like the subsidies to help poor Americans afford insurance, or the Medicaid expansion — two of ObamaCare’s more popular provisions but potentially its more expensive.

“Does that get rid of the subsidies? Not necessarily, or the Medicaid. But I think also we’re going to find out we can’t afford to have everybody on Medicaid, we can’t afford to have everybody on subsidized insurance,” Paul said.

Alternate headline: “Ted Cruz’s ad team pulls all-nighter” — which would be ironic, since Paul’s logic here about the difficulty of weaning people off subsidies once they’ve begun is the same as Cruz’s was back in October in pushing the “defund” effort (which Paul tepidly supported). All Rand’s saying, really, is that repeal becomes much harder once a program’s in place and people have come to rely on it. Cruz couldn’t agree more, I assume, which is not to say he won’t have lots of fun punishing Paul for his “defeatism” in the primaries.

In a sense, all he’s giving you here is the ObamaCare version of his straight talk on abortion with David Axelrod. America’s not going to change its abortion laws, he said, because there isn’t enough consensus to do so. There may be enough consensus to draw a firm legal line at third-trimester abortions but there certainly isn’t a consensus for an all-out ban like social cons want. The trick for voters is deciding how much of that statement is descriptive and how much is prescriptive. How much political capital would President Paul devote to shaping a consensus on abortion? How much would he devote to shaping a consensus on ObamaCare’s repeal? The first requirement of a tea-party champion is that he resist establishment conventional wisdom and fight for his principles, even if he’s all but guaranteed to lose. It was Cruz’s insight that he could win politically that way by leading on “defund” even though he was destined to lose on the merits. I don’t know why, frankly, Paul would leave himself open to attacks from Cruz on that point by taking these quasi-fatalistic views about hot-button conservative issues. Presumably it’s because his top priority is showing the establishment that he can play nice, and hinting that he wouldn’t rock the boat terribly much on abortion and, especially, ObamaCare is one way to do that. But he’s got to get through the primaries first. Why make things easier on Cruz?

As for the merits, I don’t think repealing the mandate would do much to weaken the overall law at this point. It would be a moral victory insofar as it jettisoned the most overtly coercive element of O-Care, the one that got away at the Supreme Court two years ago, but yanking it out of the ObamaCare jenga tower now wouldn’t topple the whole structure. That might have happened if the Court had struck it down before the exchanges launched; without the mandate in place scaring twentysomethings into buying insurance this year, the risk pools might have been overloaded with the old and sick, premiums might have shot up in 2015, and suddenly we’re in death-spiral country. As it is, they’ve got somewhere between six million and eight million paying customers enrolled, roughly 28 percent of whom are “young invincibles.” That’s well short of their target of 39 percent last year but enough that premiums aren’t expected to skyrocket next year to make up for missing revenue. But even if the mandate had been nullified by the Supremes, that still might not have nuked O-Care; remember, for all intents and purposes, the mandate has already been repealed. It’s basically hortatory, a nudge to adults (especially young adults) to sign up but not something that’s being seriously enforced. It was the White House PR outreach to twentysomethings that did most of the work in getting them to sign up, I think, not the mandate. In which case, what’s really achieved at this point by getting rid of it?

Exit question: If we drop the mandate and keep the exchanges and the subsidies and the Medicaid expansion, as Paul envisions, then we’re basically adopting O-Care, right?


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Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 4:08 PM

You are a wacko bird, the Cold War has been replaced by terrorism. Let’s get rid of the Dept. of Education in total since it has been a complete failure.

Cindy Munford on April 28, 2014 at 4:11 PM

Watching Rand’s stock tumble is delicious. The man was never qualified for president.

thebrokenrattle on April 28, 2014 at 4:11 PM

Good luck to any republican campaigning on taking health care away from people.

rubberneck on April 28, 2014 at 4:12 PM

We can’t cut spending, either…

… That would be hard!

Seven Percent Solution on April 28, 2014 at 4:03 PM

Soldier! Say it like a conservative. oooooo that would be hard, ooooooo don’t make me do it. ;0

Here’s the thing about Paul’s comments. He looks at the landscape as it is, declares that it will always be the case, and cedes ground to the enemy. It’s what Boehner and McConnell have been doing for years.

Lee would have taken and held Gettysburg with that kind of attitude. Joshua Chamberlain would been told not to worry about holding Little Round Top since the Confederates already held Seminary Ridge and most of the town. In other words, why bother fighting at all?

Happy Nomad on April 28, 2014 at 4:13 PM

What does the NSA HAVE on Rand Paul?

Harbingeing on April 28, 2014 at 4:13 PM

If you’re an American constitutional libertarian and the SCOTUS has declared a program constitutional, what else can you believe?

Knott Buyinit on April 28, 2014 at 4:13 PM

Free stuff!!!

Bmore on April 28, 2014 at 4:13 PM

Gee, it’s almost as if Republicans have no intention of doing anything their base wants done.

novaculus on April 28, 2014 at 4:14 PM

Shutting down the government doesn’t even stop Obamacare. Last year, when the government was shut down, the rollout continued forward. Because the law was designed so that the funding is mandatory and automatic unless specifically repealed by Congress.

Shump on April 28, 2014 at 4:02 PM

So is all of the rest of the spending that got curtailed. During a shutdown it becomes the Executive’s discretion which mandatory spending actually gets done with the limited funds available.

Of course that means Obamacare would be the last thing to go, but the idea is that if Congress is being clear Obamacare is what it is about, and if the PEOPLE BACK THEM UP, then Obama would be under immense pressure to cave.

But the GOP won’t do it because they know the People won’t back them up during an extended showdown.

fadetogray on April 28, 2014 at 4:14 PM

Great. Joana has now put Obamacare in the same pantheon of programs as Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. You know, programs that were passed with heavy bipartisan support and have been in place for years.

Super duper popular. Don’t you forget it, you true blue conservatives.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:02 PM

People like you are completely nuts. You seem to believe that whatever you or I write about Obamacare here influences how the American voters see the program.

I have little patience to spin or for propaganda. I never allow my preferences to cloud my analysis. I prefer to see things as they are, even if I don’t like them, and figure out the better solutions to change them – instead of ridiculously proclaiming grandiloquent tirades as if I were some revolutionary general.

Again, I’d rather stay in the real world where some parts of the Obamacare are extremely popular and such a factor needs to be accounted for when it comes to strategizing. I don’t want to repeal Obamacare to have Obamacare 2.0 legislated 2 years later. I’m living in the real world and playing the long game.

You’re always welcome to join us in the reality-base side. Or you can keep shouting like a madman about how we’re all screwed and everyone who doesn’t agree with you is an establishment shill/a communist/an idiot.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:14 PM

he did not say it was impossible(which it is) he said difficult. If a man can’t even say something hard is hard than what can he say?

coolrepublica on April 28, 2014 at 3:59 PM

I’d rather he shut his mouth about how difficult things are and work tirelessly and without complaint to make difficult things happen.

Paul’s comment is the typical politico’s prelude to defeat. He’s foreshadows how the tragic movie will end.

I don’t want to hear that shit. I want to hear what he’s doing to set up our future success.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:14 PM

“I think one of the practical things you might be able to do, and I think the public at large might accept this, is to make ObamaCare voluntary. You make it voluntary, basically you get rid of the coercion,” he said, presumably by eliminating the penalty those without insurance are required to pay, known as the individual mandate.

Well, what ABOUT that? (Not that it’s likely to happen)

Cleombrotus on April 28, 2014 at 4:15 PM

You have good instincts. Nice to make your acquaintance. ; )

Bmore on April 28, 2014 at 4:02 PM

The pleasure is all mine. Thank you.

Augustinian on April 28, 2014 at 4:15 PM

You are a wacko bird, the Cold War has been replaced by terrorism. Let’s get rid of the Dept. of Education in total since it has been a complete failure.

Cindy Munford on April 28, 2014 at 4:11 PM

But he’ll do that too.

And “turrerism” is a greater threat than and requires more military spending than Soviet Russia during the cold war!?!?

We’re talking about people who’s greatest successful attack occurred with BOX CUTTERS.

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 4:15 PM

This car is stuck in this ditch pretty good. Lets just abandon it and walk. The Whig hubcaps suck.

Bmore on April 28, 2014 at 4:15 PM

Watching Rand’s stock tumble is delicious. The man was never qualified for president.

thebrokenrattle on April 28, 2014 at 4:11 PM

Do you think Rand’s stock is tumbling?

It’s quite obvious the exact opposite is happening.

Just read the comments here.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:16 PM

He said he may keep some parts of the law, like the subsidies to help poor Americans afford insurance, or the Medicaid expansion — two of ObamaCare’s more popular provisions but potentially its more expensive.

Wasn’t it his fiscal conservatism that people say is why he is conservative.
Throw that one out the window. What is his value now?

astonerii on April 28, 2014 at 4:16 PM

What does the NSA HAVE on Rand Paul?

Harbingeing on April 28, 2014 at 4:13 PM

Seriously? With Ron Paul in the picture, why in the hell would the NSA have to collect embarrassing dirt on Rand Paul?

Happy Nomad on April 28, 2014 at 4:16 PM

I’m going to have to disagree with you this one. Medicaid is likely to have a huge impact at the state level which will require increase in income/business/sales/property taxes to cover the increased burden of costs placed on the state. That will impact job growth.

lineholder on April 28, 2014 at 3:48 PM

Totally agree, but the impact is not as *direct* on individuals and businesses as the impact of the coverage and employer mandates.

It’s going to hurt big, for sure, though – you are right. That’s why states like TX are saying no way.

Missy on April 28, 2014 at 4:16 PM

Good luck to any republican campaigning on taking health care away from people.

rubberneck on April 28, 2014 at 4:12 PM

The Democrats didn’t campaign on it but they certainly took people’s health care away with OCare.

Bitter Clinger on April 28, 2014 at 4:17 PM

Do you think Rand’s stock is tumbling?

It’s quite obvious the exact opposite is happening.

Just read the comments here.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:16 PM

Um, yeah. No one trusts him. :)

thebrokenrattle on April 28, 2014 at 4:17 PM

You’re always welcome to join us in the reality-base side. Or you can keep shouting like a madman about how we’re all screwed and everyone who doesn’t agree with you is an establishment shill/a communist/an idiot.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:14 PM

The reality-based side where we compare repealing a program 36 years after its inception to doing it a mere two or three election cycles later, within a few years of its actual implementation, and when it’s been in the news constantly?

Every zealot says they’re “reality based.” No one else here wants any of your kool-aid, joana. Your “long game” is a losing prospect.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 4:18 PM

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:14 PM

No, you aren’t. You’re making comments based on your political/ideological preferences without supporting it with data about the current status of our healthcare system, the impact that further erosion of our healthcare system will have in our nation, not only in an economic context but also in a social context, and consideration of the options that exist.

lineholder on April 28, 2014 at 4:18 PM

Romney thread up.

TinFin on April 28, 2014 at 4:18 PM

Fleuries on April 28, 2014 at 4:10 PM

We’ve seen what the Ruling Class party under Boehner (and back in the day under Senate Majority Leader Weak Chins)does with any kind of majority—-very little. The Whigs would not even propose a repeal with a supermajority. Rand Paul is like a cooked lobster, he was alive when he entered the lukewarm water but died once the boil began. He is acclimated to DC and happy to move up under the system in place there.

kingsmill on April 28, 2014 at 4:19 PM

Do you think Rand’s stock is tumbling?

It’s quite obvious the exact opposite is happening.

Just read the comments here.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:16 PM

??!! What??

oldroy on April 28, 2014 at 4:19 PM

Do you think Rand’s stock is tumbling?

It’s quite obvious the exact opposite is happening.

Just read the comments here.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:16 PM

Among the people who are going to end up choosing between him and Cruz as the “purest” candidate in the primary? Yeah, his stock is tumbling quite a bit. If he thinks he can out-pander Christie and Jeb and win as the moderate “compromise” candidate, that’s peachy, but he’s got quite an uphill battle.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 4:20 PM

Joana writes,

You seem to believe that whatever you or I write about Obamacare here influences how the American voters see the program.

Absolutely. You’re a small part of the collective herpes of defeat. Yes, you’re just one chancre sore. But you’re still a symptom of the larger disease that is hobbling conservatives from making any real progress towards reform.

I have little patience to spin or for propaganda. I never allow my preferences to cloud my analysis.

When you compared Obamacare to Social Security and Medicare, you aren’t playing the objective analyst. Those programs passed with heavy bipartisan support. Obamacare passed without a single GOP vote. Those programs didn’t have any serious hitches in implementation. Obamacare is still not fully implemented.

So drop this pose that you’re just the bearer of bad tidings from over in the valley of the land of objective analysis. You’re playing no such role.

You’re always welcome to join us in the reality-base side. Or you can keep shouting like a madman about how we’re all screwed and everyone who doesn’t agree with you is an establishment shill/a communist/an idiot.

I didn’t call you a communist, but you’re clearly an idiot and you’re a symptom of a larger problem in the GOP.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:21 PM

Um, yeah. No one trusts him. :)

thebrokenrattle on April 28, 2014 at 4:17 PM

No one = the crazies who endorsed Bachmann and Cain two years ago.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:21 PM

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 4:15 PM

With almost three thousand casualties on our soil. And then came Boston.

Cindy Munford on April 28, 2014 at 4:22 PM

Joana, part of the “reality-based” coalition that brought us Romney’s 2012 campaign.

He’ll win…you’ll see! ORCA will help us beat the Dems at their own game! Just give us your money and let us do the rest, crazy TruCons!

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 4:22 PM

I have little patience to spin or for propaganda. I never allow my preferences to cloud my analysis.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:14 PM

Uh-huh. That’s nice you think that about yourself.

Now tell us your definition of “trucons”

Augustinian on April 28, 2014 at 4:22 PM

No, you aren’t. You’re making comments based on your political/ideological preferences without supporting it with data about the current status of our healthcare system, the impact that further erosion of our healthcare system will have in our nation, not only in an economic context but also in a social context, and consideration of the options that exist.

lineholder on April 28, 2014 at 4:18 PM

Please quote my comments which you believe that should have been supported by “data about the current status of our healthcare system, the impact that further erosion of our healthcare system will have in our nation, not only in an economic context but also in a social context, and consideration of the options that exist”.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:23 PM

thebrokenrattle on April 28, 2014 at 4:17 PM

The way this works, the more conservatives mistrust him, the more viable a candidate he is in the eyes of those who love the party.

Cindy Munford on April 28, 2014 at 4:23 PM

I don’t want to hear that shit. I want to hear what he’s doing to set up our future success.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:14 PM

There is a lot of shit we dont want to hear but still have to get the news somehow.

I din’t want to hear I had cancer. Dr. still told me.
I didn’t want to hear my mom died from her cancer. I was still told
I didn’t want to hear my son had autism. Guess what? Still had to hear that shit.

So life is full of shit we don’t want to hear. But they are still happening to us. Might as well learn to deal. Right?

coolrepublica on April 28, 2014 at 4:23 PM

The Paul family are freaking nuts. Been saying it for years.

HotAirian on April 28, 2014 at 4:24 PM

So, what? Obama’s parasites will riot if we take away their freebies?

Sonny, that’s why we pay the National Guard.

Adjoran on April 28, 2014 at 4:24 PM

I don’t like Jeb or Christie, but I just don’t want another Senator. We have got to get an executive in there. Romney had MANY flaws but I think he could have done a good job on some things.

It doesn’t help to have the most principled conservative if they don’t have a damn idea in the world how to run things. The howling wolves of the MFM will be at the door from the second the election is over. They won’t be covering for our guy like they covered for Obama.

Missy on April 28, 2014 at 4:24 PM

The reality-based side where we compare repealing a program 36 years after its inception to doing it a mere two or three election cycles later, within a few years of its actual implementation, and when it’s been in the news constantly?

But Joana is not for repealing these super duper popular programs.

Keep in mind that Obamacare is still not fully implemented. Obama keeps delaying the employer’s mandate for Obamacare until – well, apparently until he’s almost out of office. But Joana just wants to get in front of the bus.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:25 PM

It is all chilling out the mark at this point.

The Republican establishment intends to deliver nothing. It wants to deliver nothing. It likes being the junior partner in the Democrat / Republican coalition.

But the issue is how to reduce Republican voters’ expectations to nothing by gradual stages, without them getting up and walking out, and without demanding results with a real or else, the way that big donors do.

(Which is why the Republican Party heeds its liberal big donors and ignores its conservative voters.)

David Blue on April 28, 2014 at 4:25 PM

No one = the crazies who endorsed Bachmann and Cain two years ago.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:21 PM

In 2012 we had a primary where tons of different “purity” candidates fractured the vote and the safest candidate ended up winning.

That’s not Rand. If we get another messy primary and default to a moderate establishment favorite like Romney, it’s going to be Jeb or, hell, it could even be Romney again per the thread next to this one. Rubio will probably start positioning himself as a safe moderate if he’s serious about running. Same with Christie, who is a bit more bellicose than Romney, but will still run on his “bipartisan” appeal.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 4:25 PM

Among the people who are going to end up choosing between him and Cruz as the “purest” candidate in the primary? Yeah, his stock is tumbling quite a bit. If he thinks he can out-pander Christie and Jeb and win as the moderate “compromise” candidate, that’s peachy, but he’s got quite an uphill battle.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 4:20 PM

I suspect Rand is playing for the General Election already. You don’t go to Harvard and Chicago if you’re trying to pander to TrueCon, Inc.

You do it to try to get that 5% more you’ll need to actually win the whole thing.

Most of his supporters people are smart enough to look at his and his father’s voting record and know exactly how they will legislate.

30 years is a long time to fake it.

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 4:26 PM

Joana and libfreeordie both agree Rand will be the GOP nominee in 2016, so I’m guessing he’s pretty much dead in the water right now.

Sorry Rand, you gave it a decent try.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 4:26 PM

cool republic,

There is a lot of shit we dont want to hear but still have to get the news somehow.

I din’t want to hear I had cancer. Dr. still told me.
I didn’t want to hear my mom died from her cancer. I was still told
I didn’t want to hear my son had autism. Guess what? Still had to hear that shit.

So life is full of shit we don’t want to hear. But they are still happening to us. Might as well learn to deal. Right?

Rand Paul is not in the news business. He’s a politician who is supposed to be for reform. So what I expect to hear from him is not that I’ve got cancer or that it’s likely to be fatal, but how I’m going to beat the sucker.

Get off the man’s nut sack.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:27 PM

I suspect Rand is playing for the General Election already. You don’t go to Harvard and Chicago if you’re trying to pander to TrueCon, Inc.

You do it to try to get that 5% more you’ll need to actually win the whole thing.

Most of his supporters people are smart enough to look at his and his father’s voting record and know exactly how they will legislate.

30 years is a long time to fake it.

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 4:26 PM

If he wants to act like he already has the nomination sewn up, so be it. It’s not a very good strategy, though.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 4:28 PM

Absolutely. You’re a small part of the collective herpes of defeat. Yes, you’re just one chancre sore. But you’re still a symptom of the larger disease that is hobbling conservatives from making any real progress towards reform.

When you compared Obamacare to Social Security and Medicare, you aren’t playing the objective analyst. Those programs passed with heavy bipartisan support. Obamacare passed without a single GOP vote. Those programs didn’t have any serious hitches in implementation. Obamacare is still not fully implemented.

So drop this pose that you’re just the bearer of bad tidings from over in the valley of the land of objective analysis. You’re playing no such role.

I didn’t call you a communist, but you’re clearly an idiot and you’re a symptom of a larger problem in the GOP.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:21 PM

Saying that “parts of Obamacare are too popular so don’t expect a full repeal because there won’t be the political will to get it passed, just like there isn’t a political will to repeal Medicare/privatize SS/end the food stamps program/eliminate the federal minimum wage (or, for example, to institute a federal sales tax)” isn’t saying “Obamacare is exactly like Medicare”.

If you don’t understand this, there’s nothing I can do for you.

And it’s because of people like you that conservative ideas keep losing. You’re the defeatist, not me. I believe it’s possible to kill Obamacare. You, on the other hand, are willing to accept a single-payer system if you can’t elect 60 “pure conservatives” to the Senate.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:29 PM

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:23 PM

Your comments have been limited to only a political viewpoint, joana.

Over 10% of the American population is employed in healthcare. We’ve been riding along the crest of a demand-side crisis for a while. No one knew for certain how Sebelius et. al. would deal with things. The risk has been high, and the impact on our economy could have been severe.

There’s more to it than just political.

Rand Paul should know how the system works and the challenges being faced. If he doesn’t, then he hasn’t been paying attention. If he does, then he could not in good conscience support continuation of the status quo.

And that IS what he’s doing. Understand?

That’s looking at the situation objectively including healthcare system status and facts, okay?

Do us all a favor and knock the chip off your shoulder. Please.

lineholder on April 28, 2014 at 4:29 PM

The apple does not fall far from the tree. Now, rand is losing his mind…and the Conservative Base.

kingsjester on April 28, 2014 at 4:30 PM

There is a lot of shit we dont want to hear but still have to get the news somehow.

I din’t want to hear I had cancer. Dr. still told me.
I didn’t want to hear my mom died from her cancer. I was still told
I didn’t want to hear my son had autism. Guess what? Still had to hear that shit.

So life is full of shit we don’t want to hear. But they are still happening to us. Might as well learn to deal. Right?

coolrepublica on April 28, 2014 at 4:23 PM

Not quite. ObamaCare is certainly political cancer – but the voters are their own chemotherapy and their own form of radiation treatment.

What we have here is the cancer itself telling us to just accept it. Lie down. Make the best of our inevitable death.

Augustinian on April 28, 2014 at 4:30 PM

Joana and libfreeordie both agree Rand will be the GOP nominee in 2016, so I’m guessing he’s pretty much dead in the water right now.

Sorry Rand, you gave it a decent try.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 4:26 PM

I never agreed to such a thing, but hey, flat out and shamelessly lying is what you, isn’t it?

Blatantly and knowingly lying still won’t stop you from trying to lecture others.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:31 PM

Now tell us your definition of “trucons”

Augustinian on April 28, 2014 at 4:22 PM

TruCons are wrong. They disagree with joana, so they must be wrong.

How does she know they’re TruCons? Because they disagree with her.

Tautologies FTW!

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 4:31 PM

He said it would be difficult, not impossible. And as far
as taking back what has been given for free, we all know that
debacle because of welfare. Unfortunately, we have generations
on welfare. BTW, just try and take back those free cell phones!

Personally, I disagree with Rand Paul on this issue. I do not
want government involved in my health care decisions. End of story.

Repeal, replace, whatever, get the government the hell out of it!

Amjean on April 28, 2014 at 4:32 PM

Rand Paul is officially the second lilliputian, right after obama.

Schadenfreude on April 28, 2014 at 3:25 PM

The incredible Shrinking Rand.

Interestingly, it’s Cathy McMorris-Rodgers’s comments about “reforming” rather than repealing the O-Care exchanges that drew most of the blog chatter this weekend, not Rand’s equally eyebrow-raising remarks at Harvard on Friday. Is that because McMorris-Rodgers is guilty of a double heresy, having forecast a new amnesty push this summer too? Or is it because Paul’s conservative bona fides are still in good standing whereas no one trusts the House leadership on anything anymore, starting with ObamaCare?

McMorris Rogers works for the Boehner cartel, and she was reading the script which was not heresy, it was orthodoxy. This is their new talking point. She is being staged as a possible VP to go against Hillary. They probably want to use her to rake in amnesty bucks for the Club, which, by the way, is one of her selling points. The rich boys love her.

Those who cared about Rand Paul have already had enough head slaps from him recently it no longer means anything. He is morphing as fast as he can towards the establishment.

I think it’s going to be difficult to turn the clock back- RandPaul

is something you never have to say, unless you want the public/voters to give up

Saying something like that makes the money boys in the Club very happy. It is like aphrodisiac. They want the disagreeable base turned into surrender monkeys before the election.

To win, you must first not surrender. The battle should be turning off the federal part of the health care plan, and shoving it back to the states, to run or not run, as they desire. This keeps the feds out of determining your medical care. It becomes a liberty issue, a choice issue, a cost issue, an empowerment issue

If Paul is smart, he knows this. So, he is either not smart, or he wants surrender monkeys, or both.

It is like McConnell is writing script for him lately

entagor on April 28, 2014 at 4:32 PM

Missy on April 28, 2014 at 4:24 PM

I’ve always liked Jindal, but he’s won me over of late, mostly in how he has addressed domestic energy, healthcare, and education.

lineholder on April 28, 2014 at 4:32 PM

Randy wants to be the Pope Francis of the GOP. He’ll throw some red meat to the bubbas on occasion, but his goal is to manage the status quo. He’ll be a great man for sound and fury signifying nothing.

vilebody on April 28, 2014 at 4:33 PM

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:31 PM

Crawled back from underneath your bridge again, huh? Yeah, Mid-Terms are getting close.

Goering would be proud.

kingsjester on April 28, 2014 at 4:34 PM

If you really want to do something difficult and you need the people’s support, you don’t start our by telling them you really can’t do it. You harp endlessly on the obstacles if you really have no intention of trying to overcome them, to prepare folks to hear the excuses when you go through the motions and don’t do it.

Republican leadership apparently believes that saying they can’t repeal Obamacare or enforce immigration law or reduce federal borrowing and spending we will all just sigh and shrug when they don’t do anything of substance to address our problems.

These a-holes obviously think they can blow smoke up our kilts forever. Much like Obama, it has yet to dawn on them that we don’t believe a damned thing they say anymore, either.

They obviously believe they’re going to win in a walk come November, take the throttle of the gravy train, and start pouring the gravy on their biscuits. I don’t think any but a handful of them are looking much beyond that. If they do actually understand the insanity can’t go on, they are only trying to get theirs and get out before it all comes crashing down.

Just like the Democrats.

novaculus on April 28, 2014 at 4:34 PM

I never agreed to such a thing, but hey, flat out and shamelessly lying is what you, isn’t it?

Blatantly and knowingly lying still won’t stop you from trying to lecture others.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:31 PM

No, not finishing sentences is what I.

By comparing “the crazies” who supported Rand but won’t after his current pander fest to people who supported Cain and Bachmann in 2012, you’re implying the primary will end similarly, which puts Rand in the role of Romney, reaping the benefits of every “purity” candidate splitting the vote among each other. I know you’re bad at analogies from the other thread, so don’t try too hard to wrap your head around this one; I don’t want you to get a migraine.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 4:34 PM

The apple does not fall far from the tree. Now, rand is losing his mind…and the Conservative Base.

kingsjester on April 28, 2014 at 4:30 PM

The difference is, for all of his faults Ron Paul wouldn’t be going around pandering and saying conservatives should give up. if anything Ron Paul is too strident.

tetriskid on April 28, 2014 at 4:35 PM

Saying that “parts of Obamacare are too popular so don’t expect a full repeal because there won’t be the political will to get it passed, just like there isn’t a political will to repeal Medicare/privatize SS/end the food stamps program/eliminate the federal minimum wage (or, for example, to institute a federal sales tax)” isn’t saying “Obamacare is exactly like Medicare”

There you go again. Comparing laws that have existed for most people’s entire lives with some law which hasn’t even been fully implemented, and then declaring them equal in their entrenchment in America’s social and legal fabric.

If Republicans don’t have the will to try and repeal Obamacare, then they have no reason to exist at all.

And it’s because of people like you that conservative ideas keep losing. You’re the defeatist, not me.

Wrong, deluded dearie. Look at this list of establishment nominees.

1992 – Bush I – 37.5%

1996 – Dole – 40.7%

2000 -Bush II – 47.9%

2004 – Bush II – 50.7%

2008 – McCain – 45.7%

2012 – Romney – 47.2%

Average – 44.95% over the last twenty-five years

And your winner’s call is for more of the same.

How’s that working out for you, being a winner? Is it everything you’d hoped it would be?

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:35 PM

??!! What??

oldroy on April 28, 2014 at 4:19 PM

Don’t, she’s on a roll.

Bishop on April 28, 2014 at 4:35 PM

But Joana is not for repealing these super duper popular programs.

Keep in mind that Obamacare is still not fully implemented. Obama keeps delaying the employer’s mandate for Obamacare until – well, apparently until he’s almost out of office. But Joana just wants to get in front of the bus.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:25 PM

Stop lying. I know old habits die hard, but at least give it a try. I’m in favour of repealing Obamacare, Medicare, Medicaid and Social Security (unlike many “trucons” who are pure conservatives but love their Medicare and SS).

I know there won’t be enough popular support to get Obamacare fully and statutory repealed. Certain provisions of the law are simply too popular and too many reps and senators won’t commit electoral suicide by voting straight against them.

The solution I proposed is the only one that actually repeals Obamacare. As long as insurers can sell medically underwritten policies and there isn’t a mandate, there isn’t an Obamacare.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:36 PM

GrassMudHorsey on April 28, 2014 at 3:32 PM

I’ve always said the only way to get massive support to get rid of the beast (0′care) is to force it’s full implementation as written. None of these delay tactics! If it’s so good, stand by it, you freaks.

Same with immigration. The only reform that’s necessary is the way that the govt is enforcing existing law. Seal the border and kick people out. Don’t split up families, send the “anchor babies” home with the parents. Immigration law is interpreted too loosely. Children born here to illegal alien parents are subject to the countries from which they come.

freedomfirst on April 28, 2014 at 4:36 PM

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:36 PM

Did you find those missing strawberries, yet, Queeg-ette?

kingsjester on April 28, 2014 at 4:37 PM

It is like McConnell is writing script for him lately

entagor on April 28, 2014 at 4:32 PM

Yup. It’s looks like a complete sell out.

I dont think he dares to run for president when he cant run for his senate seat too.

the_nile on April 28, 2014 at 4:37 PM

Rand is crazy … like a FOX.

He’s dead on right but two points …

1. If a bill comes up to repeal it and his vote is the deciding vote … he’ll vote to repeal it and you can bank that. His libertarian nature loathes anything like ObamaCare and if he sees an opening to repeal it that will work – he’ll take the shot.

2. Rand, unlike his dad, works AROUND the issue. He bypasses big problems the way McArthur bypassed whole islands in the Pacific campaign. When he says … “Make ObamaCare voluntary” … that’s his way of bypassing but making it voluntary, without doubt, renders ObamaCare a pretty sterile offering. It makes it much cheaper, much less of a redistributionist weapon, and pretty much cuts it off from food and water – so it can starve.

HondaV65 on April 28, 2014 at 4:37 PM

I’ve always liked Jindal, but he’s won me over of late, mostly in how he has addressed domestic energy, healthcare, and education.

lineholder on April 28, 2014 at 4:32 PM

I like Jindal and most of all, I like Walker. But I think they’re probably both wondering if they really want to have their lives and careers destroyed by the jackals.

Missy on April 28, 2014 at 4:37 PM

I don’t like Jeb or Christie, but I just don’t want another Senator.

Lincoln was only a House member. Jimmy Carter was a Governor.

George Washington had no “executive” experience.

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 4:37 PM

Republicans:

Remember Joana’s advice for the upcoming election. Obamacare is super duper popular. So when on the hustings, you want to speak of it in the same breath you do as Social Security, Medicare, the minimum wage, and other sacred bureaucratic cows.

That’s Joana’s advice, and we all know she’s a winner because she tells us so.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:37 PM

Rand Paul has reversed himself on more things in the last 10 days than Romney did in 10 years as he tries to be all things to all people. I used to be a fan but it appears that Rand is a fake as the “hair” on his head. He has elevated pandering to an art form.

bw222 on April 28, 2014 at 4:38 PM

I believe it’s possible to kill Obamacare.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:29 PM

The solution I proposed is the only one that actually repeals Obamacare. As long as insurers can sell medically underwritten policies and there isn’t a mandate, there isn’t an Obamacare.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:36 PM

Well? What about that?

Cleombrotus on April 28, 2014 at 4:38 PM

If you don’t understand this, there’s nothing I can do for you.

And it’s because of people like you that conservative ideas keep losing. You’re the defeatist, not me. I believe it’s possible to kill Obamacare. You, on the other hand, are willing to accept a single-payer system if you can’t elect 60 “pure conservatives” to the Senate.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:29 PM

Oh yeah, totally. You’re so optimistic that you think we can’t simply repeal it with a GOP President and Congress, and as proof, you state that we didn’t repeal Medicare and Medicaid once we had the “trifecta”…THIRTY SIX ****ING YEARS after Medicaid was passed.

But hey, I’m the one who shamelessly lies. I’d say you’re the pot calling the kettle black, but that might get me put in the pillory with Bundy and Sterling for being raaaaaacist.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 4:39 PM

GrassMudHorsey

WTF. Yup. Back on page 1.

gh on April 28, 2014 at 4:39 PM

George Washington had no “executive” experience.

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 4:37 PM

Being commander of the Colonial Army doesn’t qualify as “executive experience?”

bw222 on April 28, 2014 at 4:40 PM

The solution I proposed is the only one that actually repeals Obamacare. As long as insurers can sell medically underwritten policies and there isn’t a mandate, there isn’t an Obamacare.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:36 PM

Well, except that actually repealing Obamacare would also actually repeal Obamacare. But we can’t do that even with the trifecta because Dubya/Hastert/Lott didn’t repeal Medicaid.

That’s not joana’s opinion, you guys. That’s ****ing science.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 4:41 PM

I know there won’t be enough popular support to get Obamacare fully and statutory repealed. Certain provisions of the law are simply too popular and too many reps and senators won’t commit electoral suicide by voting straight against them.

The solution I proposed is the only one that actually repeals Obamacare. As long as insurers can sell medically underwritten policies and there isn’t a mandate, there isn’t an Obamacare.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:36 PM

Yes,

Because the law is just working so well. It’s just so popular to harm the poor and vulnerable.

tetriskid on April 28, 2014 at 4:41 PM

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:31 PM

Crawled back from underneath your bridge again, huh? Yeah, Mid-Terms are getting close.

Goering would be proud.

kingsjester on April 28, 2014 at 4:34 PM

She has been trolling pretty heavy today—you should see the Rand thread that fell off in the headlines. She really slandered Cindy M and called everyone names…

OmahaConservative on April 28, 2014 at 4:41 PM

Cleombrotus on April 28, 2014 at 4:38 PM

Yes, she’s for finishing off Obamacare around the same time she’s for finishing off Medicare or Social Security.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:41 PM

HondaV65 on April 28, 2014 at 4:37 PM

Yup.

gh on April 28, 2014 at 4:41 PM

Or is it because Paul’s conservative bona fides are still in good standing

Really? I think his conservative bona fides are fading pretty quickly.

Seems to me this is more a statement of, “I’m not going to rock the boat,” than an evaluation of how hard or easy it would be to repeal Obamacare.

I think it would be trivially easy to do. People are already buying insurance from a private insurance company, and having to pay for it themselves. The only ‘giveaway’ is the subsidy, and the way that they have forced insurance companies to include expensive coverage that the majority of people don’t need would make it relatively painless to cut the price of the insurance plans to the extent that you could drop the subsidies in half in the first year alone. Simply drop the mandates that force the premiums to be so high, and add a few catastrophic-coverage plans for those who can take advantage of them.

There Goes the Neighborhood on April 28, 2014 at 4:41 PM

No, not finishing sentences is what I.

By comparing “the crazies” who supported Rand but won’t after his current pander fest to people who supported Cain and Bachmann in 2012, you’re implying the primary will end similarly, which puts Rand in the role of Romney, reaping the benefits of every “purity” candidate splitting the vote among each other. I know you’re bad at analogies from the other thread, so don’t try too hard to wrap your head around this one; I don’t want you to get a migraine.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 4:34 PM

Why don’t you show when exactly I said I’d support Rand or predicted him to win the nomination? You’re a liar.

You also have reading comprehension problems.

What I’m saying is that whoever the crazies support, won’t win. They’re the minority of the conservatives and an even smaller minority of the Republican party. And they’re crazy. The only way of getting their support is by giving up the support of the majority of conservatives and Republicans – which means giving up the chance of actually getting a chance at the nomination.

Which means the hostility of the crazies/trucons is a necessary but not sufficient condition to win the nomination.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:42 PM

Not quite. ObamaCare is certainly political cancer – but the voters are their own chemotherapy and their own form of radiation treatment.

What we have here is the cancer itself telling us to just accept it. Lie down. Make the best of our inevitable death.

Augustinian on April 28, 2014 at 4:30 PM

But the voters like the law. Everybody keeps talking about the voters and the voters keeps saying, well I don’t mind it. they voted for Obama again despite the law. Despite Romney promising to repeal it on day 1 or 2 whatever he said.

Why aren’t their voices being heard?

I didn’t like the law either. My healthcare bill went form costing hundreds to costing thousands before the ACA took effect. I b!tch every time that notice of an increase came in.

But there are good things about the law too. Good things like preexisting condition clause. if the law was to be repealed what would happen to people with preexisting conditions who were getting care? should they be left to die because your beef with obamacare is more important to you than their lives?

What Paul is saying and many of you don’t care to understand is people are being helped. And these people understand if that law goes away that help will go with it. As with self preserving entity, they fight to survive and they won’t vote for people that will take their help away.

Medicare cost this country so much money. It is a great burden on the national debt. Go tell any senior that the country’s future depends on them giving up some of their medicare. they will tell you to take the country’s future and shove it up your @$@.

coolrepublica on April 28, 2014 at 4:42 PM

OmahaConservative on April 28, 2014 at 4:41 PM

She’s been completely incoherent here … oh, and the name-calling thing too.

gh on April 28, 2014 at 4:43 PM

OmahaConservative on April 28, 2014 at 4:41 PM

Such effective strategy. She really helped push Mitt over the Finish Line, didn’t she?

kingsjester on April 28, 2014 at 4:43 PM

Lincoln was only a House member. Jimmy Carter was a Governor.

George Washington had no “executive” experience.

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 4:37 PM

Washington had more executive experience than any other President IMO.

True about Lincoln. But the government was a lot smaller then.

Missy on April 28, 2014 at 4:43 PM

I know there won’t be enough popular support to get Obamacare fully and statutory repealed. Certain provisions of the law are simply too popular and too many reps and senators won’t commit electoral suicide by voting straight against them.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:36 PM

Ah, right, because of your psychic powers.

An electorate that just voted in a GOP President and Congress is going to suddenly take to the street with torches and pitchforks because, shockingly, a GOP-led Washington repeals the law, which is hugely surprising since it’s not like the only piece of government currently controlled by the GOP passed like five thousand repeal bills.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 4:45 PM

She’s been completely incoherent here … oh, and the name-calling thing too.

gh on April 28, 2014 at 4:43 PM

Her regular modus operandi…

Such effective strategy. She really helped push Mitt over the Finish Line, didn’t she?

kingsjester on April 28, 2014 at 4:43 PM

Heh…

OmahaConservative on April 28, 2014 at 4:45 PM

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:41 PM

Well, I was more interested in the feasibility of the idea, rather than her particular intention. She’s proposing the same idea as Paul; take away the coercive element and the thing dies, no?

Cleombrotus on April 28, 2014 at 4:45 PM

HondaV65 on April 28, 2014 at 4:37 PM

Obama voters for Rand!

thebrokenrattle on April 28, 2014 at 4:46 PM

joana,

You need to realize when you are being trolled. Stick to the issues. Don’t get defensive. Don’t call people liars or morons: especially if they are.

Hearts and Minds.

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 4:46 PM

Missy on April 28, 2014 at 4:37 PM

Oh, neither one of them are particularly naïve. Walker has had progressives gunning for him for years now. And Jindal has had to find a way to succeed in altering the course for the people of LA Despite the federal government and the Obama admin.

I’d say they both know what they would be letting themselves in for.

Neither one of them settled for “it can’t be done”, which rather impresses the dickens out of me right now.

I’d like to see them operate as a team. Only reservation I have is amnesty.

lineholder on April 28, 2014 at 4:47 PM

She’s been completely incoherent here … oh, and the name-calling thing too.

She’s been a completely consistent establishment Republican since I started reading her this morning. And the name-calling is but a cute affectation she uses to bring us conservatives all together.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:47 PM

You also have reading comprehension problems.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:42 PM

I know you’re really terrible at analogies (and rhetoric, and Realpolitik, and probably everything else), but in your analogy, Rand is Romney.

Now, it’s wholly possible that you don’t even understand the point you were making. Actually, given everything else you’ve said today, it’s highly likely.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 4:48 PM

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 4:46 PM

joana is the one doing the trolling here…

OmahaConservative on April 28, 2014 at 4:48 PM

joana,

You need to realize when you are being trolled. Stick to the issues. Don’t get defensive. Don’t call people liars or morons: especially if they are.

Hearts and Minds.

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 4:46 PM

You both would be happier elsewhere. Ask OFA to re-assign you both.

kingsjester on April 28, 2014 at 4:48 PM

Well, I was more interested in the feasibility of the idea, rather than her particular intention. She’s proposing the same idea as Paul; take away the coercive element and the thing dies, no?

No, Obamacare is a regulatory approach, as well as an individual mandate.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:48 PM

Good luck to any republican campaigning on taking health care away from people.

rubberneck on April 28, 2014 at 4:12 PM

Just logged on and your comment was the first I read.

I needed a good chuckle. The people’s health care was “taken away” by Obamacare, LOL

I’ve been waiting to hear from any of those so called “7 million” to let us know how great it is. LOL

Be sure to post any that you find, ok?

bluefox on April 28, 2014 at 4:49 PM

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:47 PM

She only comes out at election time, and then is content to stay under her bridge afterward…

OmahaConservative on April 28, 2014 at 4:49 PM

joana,

You need to realize when you are being trolled. Stick to the issues. Don’t get defensive. Don’t call people liars or morons: especially if they are.

Hearts and Minds.

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 4:46 PM

It would help if either of you had an actual argument.

But mindless sloganeering seems more fun. Hearts and Minds! Hope and Change! Four More Years!

By the way, I don’t think you know what “trolling” is, but I’m not surprised because you and joana seem to be quite adroit at not knowing things/holding outrageous misconceptions.

Good thing we have you guys on our side, though. Oh, and thanks for engineering the big win in 2012.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 4:50 PM

How exactly? Cut Veterans pensions some more, or gut the military more than it is? Obviously Paul isn’t looking to cut some real money. 17 TRILLION DOLLARS WILL be added to the debt under Obamacare. Less spending includes TAKING CARE of that eyesore. Warren or Paul, we are going off the cliff- it is just the speed that differs.

melle1228 on April 28, 2014 at 3:59 PM

$821,000,000,000 spent on the US military last year.

Reagan only managed to spend $281 Billion on Defense in 1987. Inflation adjusted that’s $567.39 Billion

Call me a Whaco Bird, but I think we can get by with a military budget equal to or less than we had at the peek of the Cold war.

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 4:08 PM

Nice deflection Skip, but answer the fvcking question. How does Paul “spend less” without dealing with the 17 trillion dollar eyesore that is Obamacare.

melle1228 on April 28, 2014 at 4:50 PM

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