Rand Paul: Let’s face it, it’s going to be difficult to repeal ObamaCare at this point

posted at 3:21 pm on April 28, 2014 by Allahpundit

Interestingly, it’s Cathy McMorris-Rodgers’s comments about “reforming” rather than repealing the O-Care exchanges that drew most of the blog chatter this weekend, not Rand’s equally eyebrow-raising remarks at Harvard on Friday. Is that because McMorris-Rodgers is guilty of a double heresy, having forecast a new amnesty push this summer too? Or is it because Paul’s conservative bona fides are still in good standing whereas no one trusts the House leadership on anything anymore, starting with ObamaCare? Whatever the reason, McMorris-Rodgers issued a statement this morning aimed at the gullible optimists among us insisting that she’s on Team Repeal all the way. Whew.

What about Rand, though? I can’t find video or a transcript of what he said in Cambridge; National Review says that he reiterated his strong opposition to ObamaCare but was fatalistic about repealing it — in the near-term at least. The Hill’s account makes it sound like his time horizon was longer than that, though:

“I think it’s going to be difficult to turn the clock back. People get assumed and accustomed to receiving things, particularly things that they get for free,” he told a crowd of students at Harvard’s Institute of Politics on Friday…

“I think one of the practical things you might be able to do, and I think the public at large might accept this, is to make ObamaCare voluntary. You make it voluntary, basically you get rid of the coercion,” he said, presumably by eliminating the penalty those without insurance are required to pay, known as the individual mandate.

He said he may keep some parts of the law, like the subsidies to help poor Americans afford insurance, or the Medicaid expansion — two of ObamaCare’s more popular provisions but potentially its more expensive.

“Does that get rid of the subsidies? Not necessarily, or the Medicaid. But I think also we’re going to find out we can’t afford to have everybody on Medicaid, we can’t afford to have everybody on subsidized insurance,” Paul said.

Alternate headline: “Ted Cruz’s ad team pulls all-nighter” — which would be ironic, since Paul’s logic here about the difficulty of weaning people off subsidies once they’ve begun is the same as Cruz’s was back in October in pushing the “defund” effort (which Paul tepidly supported). All Rand’s saying, really, is that repeal becomes much harder once a program’s in place and people have come to rely on it. Cruz couldn’t agree more, I assume, which is not to say he won’t have lots of fun punishing Paul for his “defeatism” in the primaries.

In a sense, all he’s giving you here is the ObamaCare version of his straight talk on abortion with David Axelrod. America’s not going to change its abortion laws, he said, because there isn’t enough consensus to do so. There may be enough consensus to draw a firm legal line at third-trimester abortions but there certainly isn’t a consensus for an all-out ban like social cons want. The trick for voters is deciding how much of that statement is descriptive and how much is prescriptive. How much political capital would President Paul devote to shaping a consensus on abortion? How much would he devote to shaping a consensus on ObamaCare’s repeal? The first requirement of a tea-party champion is that he resist establishment conventional wisdom and fight for his principles, even if he’s all but guaranteed to lose. It was Cruz’s insight that he could win politically that way by leading on “defund” even though he was destined to lose on the merits. I don’t know why, frankly, Paul would leave himself open to attacks from Cruz on that point by taking these quasi-fatalistic views about hot-button conservative issues. Presumably it’s because his top priority is showing the establishment that he can play nice, and hinting that he wouldn’t rock the boat terribly much on abortion and, especially, ObamaCare is one way to do that. But he’s got to get through the primaries first. Why make things easier on Cruz?

As for the merits, I don’t think repealing the mandate would do much to weaken the overall law at this point. It would be a moral victory insofar as it jettisoned the most overtly coercive element of O-Care, the one that got away at the Supreme Court two years ago, but yanking it out of the ObamaCare jenga tower now wouldn’t topple the whole structure. That might have happened if the Court had struck it down before the exchanges launched; without the mandate in place scaring twentysomethings into buying insurance this year, the risk pools might have been overloaded with the old and sick, premiums might have shot up in 2015, and suddenly we’re in death-spiral country. As it is, they’ve got somewhere between six million and eight million paying customers enrolled, roughly 28 percent of whom are “young invincibles.” That’s well short of their target of 39 percent last year but enough that premiums aren’t expected to skyrocket next year to make up for missing revenue. But even if the mandate had been nullified by the Supremes, that still might not have nuked O-Care; remember, for all intents and purposes, the mandate has already been repealed. It’s basically hortatory, a nudge to adults (especially young adults) to sign up but not something that’s being seriously enforced. It was the White House PR outreach to twentysomethings that did most of the work in getting them to sign up, I think, not the mandate. In which case, what’s really achieved at this point by getting rid of it?

Exit question: If we drop the mandate and keep the exchanges and the subsidies and the Medicaid expansion, as Paul envisions, then we’re basically adopting O-Care, right?


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YOU’RE OBVIOUSLY A COMMUNIST!11|!! /trucon

joana on April 28, 2014 at 3:42 PM

Lanceman. You getting any of this slippage?

Bmore on April 28, 2014 at 3:50 PM

Of course. You live in an alternative reality where Medicare or Medicaid were repealed when the GOP won the trifecta, right? Sadly, I’m reality based, so we’re obviously talking about two different worlds. joana on April 28, 2014 at 3:47 PM

Because we keep electing Democratlite aka Republicans.

Please take this little survey.

We need the federal govt to revert to its constitutional limits:

Yes___

No___

Please check one.

Akzed on April 28, 2014 at 3:50 PM

Did I miss the announcement that the Republican Party has closed its doors, shuttered its windows and left town?

Good heavens.

Fallon on April 28, 2014 at 3:50 PM

You remember when the Republican Party nominated George H.W. Bush, Bob Dole, George W. Bush, John McCain, and Mitt Romney? That was the announcement.

Shump on April 28, 2014 at 3:51 PM

Best current hope, back to Supreme Court, or win the Senate, House, White House with enough ballsy people to sunset the law.

El_Terrible on April 28, 2014 at 3:39 PM

They don’t grow on trees.

Cleombrotus on April 28, 2014 at 3:51 PM

If it all has to burn down – then it will burn down on my terms. And I will scorch the earth in my retreat.

Augustinian on April 28, 2014 at 3:47 PM

You might have an inflated opinion of your own importance and relevance.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 3:51 PM

He and Flake/McCain are busy propagandizing for amnesty and obama’care’, while Veterans die and obama pays of his scumhag.

Schadenfreude on April 28, 2014 at 3:49 PM

These people are seriously evil.

the_nile on April 28, 2014 at 3:51 PM

“I think it’s going to be difficult to turn the clock back. People get assumed and accustomed to receiving things, particularly things that they get for free,”

Well, then, repeal should be easy since this debacle is anything but free.

TxHotGas on April 28, 2014 at 3:51 PM

i agree with those of you who think rand is giving up too easily, btw. first abortion, now this. i’m worried about a possible president rand not fighting too hard on these issues. what if people had used this to talk about slavery, back when that was in effect? “well it’s going to be difficult to end slavery… it’s here to stay…” (i think there really were many people who said that.)

He’s right. Sorry if you don’t want to hear that, but it’s true.

I said this before the 2012 election. I’m sure my posts are lurking around here somewhere if someone wants to verify my consistency. :-)

I said that once Obamacare was implemented, even if it was badly implemented, you would never repeal it. The 2012 election was our last chance to undo it, and we blew it. So stick a fork in it. It’s done.

People are now getting their freebies. Yes, there’s a significant percentage that have had their plans cancelled. But there’s even a more significant percentage that are getting government subsidies to purchase plans, or qualifying under expanded Medicaid coverage, or whatever.

I don’t like it either, but I accept reality. Obamacare is here to stay.

Shump on April 28, 2014 at 3:42 PM

yeah people might be getting freebies and subsidies now, but aren’t plans going to get more expensive over time? and won’t subsidies decrease? i thought there were not enough people signing up and paying for obamacare to keep this from happening.

Sachiko on April 28, 2014 at 3:51 PM

joana on April 28, 2014 at 3:48 PM

You might want to study how our healthcare system actually works before passing judgment.

Again, it is possible to make use of Obamacare legislation to alter the trajectory of the law.

Why isn’t Rand promoting this????

lineholder on April 28, 2014 at 3:51 PM

This is only considered “acceptable” because Obama has illegally delayed the parts of the law that are unacceptable to most people.

If this stretches out and a conservative becomes President. (Hey, I can dream!) They should implement the law completely, as it was written… including all the delayed items, and enforce the fines retroactively (since the dates are in the law).

THEN, push for repeal.

And watch how many people beg for it… including the unions!

dominigan on April 28, 2014 at 3:52 PM

waiting for the employer mandate to kick in, and companies dropping thier coverage of employees – which probably won;t happen till 2016 at the earliest, 2020 more likely – a slow drip to everyone on some sort of exchange, and the rest who can afford to pay cash for quality care

The only thing I am curious to see how it works are the concierge medicine practices that are forming – If word spreads that they are of good quality, i can see that slowly replacing the exchanges especially if the IRS does not enforce the penalty.

The only thing I do know is that ACA is awful – the last gasp of 60′s liberals and their dream of single payer.

disguted by the elites on April 28, 2014 at 3:52 PM

Because Dog Eater has a veto pen the GOP shouldn’t even make an attempt, don’t even think of trying.

Sure a coordinated effort would expose to the LIV’s details they might not have known before, sure it would scare the living shiite out of vulnerable demorats, sure it would put the egotistical preznit on the hot seat….but…that pen. That PEN! It can control people. I’ll bet it watches all of us from a secret control room.

Bishop on April 28, 2014 at 3:52 PM

We sure are seeing a lot of white flags from the Republicans the closer we get to November

Cindy Munford on April 28, 2014 at 3:52 PM

Say, Sen. Paul, are these people likely to VOTE on the issue?

And if so how sure can you be that they will vote for candidates to KEEP IT?

And even if they do, are these voters that will be energized by the issue enough TO VOTE? And aren’t the majority of those who would be already going to vote for Democrats NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO?

What is up with Republicans?

And if you want to generalize it, make ALL the ‘entitlements’ voluntary. And including SSA. Every single one of them. And then watch what happens to them.

ajacksonian on April 28, 2014 at 3:52 PM

Because we keep electing Democratlite aka Republicans.

Please take this little survey.

We need the federal govt to revert to its constitutional limits:

Yes___

No___

Please check one.

Akzed on April 28, 2014 at 3:50 PM

Very true. Now, suggest that a squishy “moderate” RINO should be voted against, even if it means a chance of a Democrat winning, because a party full of moderates accomplishes nothing. See how long it takes for the pitchforks to come out around here.

Shump on April 28, 2014 at 3:52 PM

I guess you don’t understand the meaning of coequal branches of government. The congress just doesn’t have to pass any funding for any of the democrats pet projects should they win this year. A unified house and senate can force Obama to do whatever they want.

Last I checked, Obama doesn’t write the bills.

NWConservative on April 28, 2014 at 3:46 PM

They cannot just defund Obamacare unless they can override Obama’s veto. They have to shut down the government.

That might sound great to you (and to me!), but the People, in their Wisdom, will eviscerate Congress for it. In the real world what that means is the weakest supporters of a shutdown in Congress will be targeted, and they will roll right over.

fadetogray on April 28, 2014 at 3:52 PM

UGH

*shines up Perry girl badge*

gophergirl on April 28, 2014 at 3:45 PM

Put that away. He still has work to do in a Texas. Joana likes the democrats to set the agenda and then let the less nuttered in our party to come in and help clean up the mess, thus making the agenda bipartisan, so the democrats can blame the GOP for the mess they originally made. You live in cuckooville, sugar.

TinFin on April 28, 2014 at 3:53 PM

<—– This is my shocked face.

Axe on April 28, 2014 at 3:53 PM

We sure are seeing a lot of white flags from the Republicans the closer we get to November

Cindy Munford on April 28, 2014 at 3:52 PM

It’s frustrating to say the least.

We need a leader with some cajones.

gophergirl on April 28, 2014 at 3:53 PM

It’s not a great law or even a good law, but it is a law that is here to stay. Might as well make it better.

coolrepublica on April 28, 2014 at 3:49 PM

Using the administration’s own numbers as well as data provided by the Congressional Budget Office, the Senate Budget Committee minority staff announced last week that unfunded obligations that are part of ObamaCare will pad the federal debt by $17 trillion.

Read More At Investor’s Business Daily: http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials/040212-606490-obamacare-adds-17-trillion-in-debt.htm#ixzz30DF2TViE

Tell me how you make that better?? I’ll be waiting patiently.

melle1228 on April 28, 2014 at 3:54 PM

Seriously. What will the federal government actually do significantly differently under a Warren Administration than it would under a Paul Administration?

fadetogray on April 28, 2014 at 3:48 PM

Under Warren we’d get to 50% top nominal marginal tax rates and increases in spending even more than we had under Obama.

With Paul, we’d almost certainly see less spending in year 4 than in year 1. Not slowing the growth. Less actual spending.

But they would both agree that wondering aloud if blacks might be better off as slaves is racist.

so. . . . RINO!

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 3:54 PM

while Veterans die and obama pays of off his scumhag

, at the tune of 9,000 in yearly bonuses, by having doctored the books, on dead Veterans.

Wait until you see the mess at the DC VA. This is just the tip of the iceberg. obama and McCain/Flake/Paul actively allow the Veterans to die.

Schadenfreude on April 28, 2014 at 3:54 PM

Rand Paul: Let’s face it, it’s going to be difficult to repeal ObamaCare at this point for me to take a firm stand on anything, or to even give a crap.

Pork-Chop on April 28, 2014 at 3:55 PM

Cindy Munford on April 28, 2014 at 3:52 PM

Hey. Back. Passed it. Three down. Three to go.

lineholder on April 28, 2014 at 3:55 PM

So the GOP wants the same things as the Rs. It’s just they want to be in charge of it. They keep losing because they ended up being the party that was supposed to represent small govt, even thought they don’t believe in it. At least the Dems are more honest.

earlgrey133 on April 28, 2014 at 3:55 PM

Rand Paul said something his father said in 2008, and I agreed with then and now. This law is here to stay. The people who think this law is going somewhere are crazy.

It’s not a great law or even a good law, but it is a law that is here to stay. Might as well make it better.

coolrepublica on April 28, 2014 at 3:49 PM

Obamacare is here to stay… nominally. Other than that, it’s dead the moment the GOP takes over the Administration.

The GOP will simply:

- repeal the mandate (tremendously popular);
- allow insurers to sell medically underwritten policies (cheap catastrophic plans – tremendously popular);
- remove the corporate welfare, the risk corridors for insurance companies (tremendously popular). This isn’t essential, it’d only speed up the process.

Without those provisions, Obamacare is a zombie program. Good luck trying to reinstall any of them individually.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 3:55 PM

Is there a consensus in Spain?

corona79 on April 28, 2014 at 3:56 PM

You might have an inflated opinion of your own importance and relevance.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 3:51 PM

Relax. I already got that message from Rand, and Boehner, and the Gop, and Obama, and the DNC, and Pelosi, and….

Thanks for inadvertently making my point.

Augustinian on April 28, 2014 at 3:56 PM

No. They can’t. You should read the Constitution.

You know the same Constitution “trucons” like you babble about.

Why do people like you even discuss politics if you don’t have the work ethic and the intellectual curiosity to inform yourself about the most basic facts about our political system? It just seems nonsensical to me.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 3:48 PM

Are you freaking kidding me? So all those threats of cutting funding to Iraq and Afghanistan conflicts by Pelosi and company after 2006 had no effect on GWB? I distinctly remember a leftward lurch in his administration.

Yes congress can force Obama to repeadedly veto bills containing funding for orphans and the department of education because they attached a repeal to every piece of legislation.

Please use your reading comprehension.

NWConservative on April 28, 2014 at 3:56 PM

Rand Paul, or who needs enemies?

Schadenfreude on April 28, 2014 at 3:56 PM

i agree with those of you who think rand is giving up too easily, btw. first abortion, now this. i’m worried about a possible president rand not fighting too hard on these issues. what if people had used this to talk about slavery, back when that was in effect? “well it’s going to be difficult to end slavery… it’s here to stay…” (i think there really were many people who said that.)

Sachiko on April 28, 2014 at 3:51 PM

I’ve got the feeling he’s trying to fit in.

the_nile on April 28, 2014 at 3:56 PM

Rand Paul said something his father said in 2008, and I agreed with then and now. This law is here to stay. The people who think this law is going somewhere are crazy.

It’s not a great law or even a good law, but it is a law that is here to stay. Might as well make it better.

coolrepublica on April 28, 2014 at 3:49 PM

Imagine if people had always felt that way about slavery.

Bitter Clinger on April 28, 2014 at 3:56 PM

Imagine if people had always felt that way about slavery.

Bitter Clinger on April 28, 2014 at 3:56 PM

She is a racist and a bigot. She hates subjugated people and she hates the Jews.

Schadenfreude on April 28, 2014 at 3:57 PM

Rand Paul: Let’s face it, it’s going to be difficult to repeal ObamaCare at this point for me to take a firm stand on anything, or to even give a crap.

Pork-Chop on April 28, 2014 at 3:55 PM

Well. Sure. He’s Libertarian. He’s in the “middle”.

oldroy on April 28, 2014 at 3:57 PM

Seriously. What will the federal government actually do significantly differently under a Warren Administration than it would under a Paul Administration?

fadetogray on April 28, 2014 at 3:48 PM

Rand would use a slow-acting poison, Warren would go straight for the tomahawk to the skull.

Sure you’re still dead in the end but at least with Rand you get to enjoy the ride for a while.

Bishop on April 28, 2014 at 3:57 PM

Shump on April 28, 2014 at 3:52 PM

I’m not advocating third party, I’m advocating Republicans who are not Democratlite.

Akzed on April 28, 2014 at 3:57 PM

I don’t understand why I have to put up with the same of stuff just because it is promoted by Republicans. Between his phone and his pen, a Democrat senate and a more than compliant loyal opposition we are now practically a monarchy.

Cindy Munford on April 28, 2014 at 3:58 PM

Calling John Galt and Joana ! Calling John Galt and Joana !

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 3:58 PM

coolrepublica on April 28, 2014 at 3:49 PM

Rand isn’t talking about making it better. He’s talking about perpetuating a status quo of really poor quality of care not to mention having no cost-efficiency to speak of.

And he’s also talking about leaving a door wide open for Dems to succeed in single payer.

We can do better than that. So why isn’t he promoting it? He is a doctor. He knows how the system works.

lineholder on April 28, 2014 at 3:58 PM

My premiums doubled to maintain the same level of coverage I had. How the hell is that so etching for free?!!?!

KMC1 on April 28, 2014 at 3:58 PM

How about we repeal Senator perma-perm instead? **#@*$* surrender monkey! Any chance this guy is related to Debbie Whatshername?

Luthier on April 28, 2014 at 3:58 PM

We sure are seeing a lot of white flags from the Republicans the closer we get to November

Cindy Munford on April 28, 2014 at 3:52 PM

Of course we are. How else can those democrats pretending to be republicans help the party they really belong to win otherwise?

bgibbs1000 on April 28, 2014 at 3:59 PM

Under Warren we’d get to 50% top nominal marginal tax rates and increases in spending even more than we had under Obama.

With Paul, we’d almost certainly see less spending in year 4 than in year 1. Not slowing the growth. Less actual spending.

But they would both agree that wondering aloud if blacks might be better off as slaves is racist.

so. . . . RINO!

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 3:54 PM

How exactly? Cut Veterans pensions some more, or gut the military more than it is? Obviously Paul isn’t looking to cut some real money. 17 TRILLION DOLLARS WILL be added to the debt under Obamacare. Less spending includes TAKING CARE of that eyesore. Warren or Paul, we are going off the cliff- it is just the speed that differs.

melle1228 on April 28, 2014 at 3:59 PM

I never would have thought we would see the establishment Republicans joining with the socialists in attacking the conservatives. We are now battling most of congress. They are spending their money fighting us instead of the socialists as they should be doing. The Washington establishment is our enemy.

crankyoldlady on April 28, 2014 at 3:59 PM

Stupid auto spell. *something*.

KMC1 on April 28, 2014 at 3:59 PM

Rand Paul: Let’s face it, it’s going to be difficult to repeal ObamaCare at this point for me to take a firm stand on anything, or to even give a crap.

Pork-Chop on April 28, 2014 at 3:55 PM

would you rather hear some politician tell you they will repeal it on day 1? Than go looking for that guy. I am sure they jumping each other to scream, that they will single handedly repeal the law with their incredible charisma and charm.

he did not say it was impossible(which it is) he said difficult. If a man can’t even say something hard is hard than what can he say?

coolrepublica on April 28, 2014 at 3:59 PM

Imagine if people had always felt that way about slavery.

Bitter Clinger on April 28, 2014 at 3:56 PM

Don’t think she hasn’t.

We have old people dying off and what do we have? Well in the future you have nothing really. But if you are happy with nothing instead of reaching to dirty black people,
coolrepublica on April 26, 2014 at 7:52 PM

Bishop on April 28, 2014 at 3:59 PM

That was the announcement.

Shump on April 28, 2014 at 3:51 PM

Right in front of my face, and I missed it. Doh!

Fallon on April 28, 2014 at 3:59 PM

Rand Paul talks too much and steps in it and then has to scrape off his shoe. I really don’t need to hear about every gas bubble idea he has or about how awfully reasonable he is.

gracie on April 28, 2014 at 3:59 PM

The Volstead act was in force for thirteen years and most producers of alcohol had switched to making something else. Nevertheless, when repeal came, they all were ready to go on day one.

Occams Stubble on April 28, 2014 at 3:59 PM

none of the republicans are leaders – they are all blue dog democrats – we don;t have 2 political parties, we have liberals and republicans who are blue dog democrats – the only reason they are in teh republican party is because the democratic leadership is soo old they would not hold any power in the democratic party so they are republicans where they can have positions of power.

Totally disgusted.

disguted by the elites on April 28, 2014 at 4:00 PM

Rand is wrong…again.

Blake on April 28, 2014 at 4:00 PM

fadetogray on April 28, 2014 at 3:52 PM

Fund agency by agency, department by department like Congress should be doing but doesn’t.

Turn this around from a fight about Obamacare and into one about the IRS which is the ENFORCER of the law. Then see what happens.

Will Obama veto each and every other agency just to keep his beloved Obamacare when they are handed to him in separate packages?

Mind you, there needs to be a brandy-new leadership in the House that will actually DO ITS JOB to do that. Boehner said he would do that in 2010, and then didn’t carry through… he didn’t even TRY to do it.

Change the funding back to where the House goes piecemeal and then see what things look like… bet its a lot harder to defend the IRS than it is Obamacare.

ajacksonian on April 28, 2014 at 4:00 PM

Rand Paul: “I think it’s going to be difficult to turn the clock back.”

Looking back in history, when the Whig leadership dragged its feet and loudly complained that slavery was difficult to overturn, the conservative base split and formed the Republican third party… and did what party leadership said couldn’t be done. The Whigs were left in the dustbin of history, while those that split ruled the party.

Defeatists like these idiots in control do not learn from history and and embrace their mediocrity and greed. Why should we follow these traitors instead of split and embrace doing great things like we used to?

These cowards need to go, or we conservatives need to walk. That’s what it comes down to.

Right now, I’m hoping a charismatic conservative takes charge and starts the split. I’m done with these treasonous fools! I’m done with supporting these greedy bastards. [spit]

dominigan on April 28, 2014 at 4:00 PM

Obamacare is here to stay… nominally. Other than that, it’s dead the moment the GOP takes over the Administration.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 3:55 PM

Now, who’s whistling Dixie?

Cleombrotus on April 28, 2014 at 4:00 PM

joana on April 28, 2014 at 3:48 PM

Is this thing a Moby, or a garden variety troll?

Augustinian on April 28, 2014 at 4:00 PM

Because Dog Eater has a veto pen the GOP shouldn’t even make an attempt, don’t even think of trying.

Sure a coordinated effort would expose to the LIV’s details they might not have known before, sure it would scare the living shiite out of vulnerable demorats, sure it would put the egotistical preznit on the hot seat….but…that pen. That PEN! It can control people. I’ll bet it watches all of us from a secret control room.

Bishop on April 28, 2014 at 3:52 PM

Are you aware the House GOP has voted to repeal Obamacare dozens of times?

What hot seat? He doesn’t have to veto anything as long Reid is the majority leader. How hard is this to understand?

And of course, Reid is the majority leader because, according to “trucons”, having a Democrat in Senate is better than having Susan Collins. Which means they never get to put Obama “on the hot seat”.

You simply can’t make this stuff up.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:00 PM

Under Warren we’d get to 50% top nominal marginal tax rates and increases in spending even more than we had under Obama.

With Paul, we’d almost certainly see less spending in year 4 than in year 1. Not slowing the growth. Less actual spending.

But they would both agree that wondering aloud if blacks might be better off as slaves is racist.

so. . . . RINO!

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 3:54 PM

That’s the way I used to think, but in the real world it turns out business and Big Money in general can stop Warren from going that far on taxes (blocking the bill in Congress), and even the Gipper couldn’t cut spending.

So no difference. At. All.

fadetogray on April 28, 2014 at 4:00 PM

Did I miss the announcement that the Republican Party has closed its doors, shuttered its windows and left town?

Good heavens.

Fallon on April 28, 2014 at 3:50 PM

Yep, done deal…

OmahaConservative on April 28, 2014 at 4:01 PM

Bishop on April 28, 2014 at 3:59 PM

Yeah, she’s a real charmer.

Bitter Clinger on April 28, 2014 at 4:01 PM

Of course. You live in an alternative reality where Medicare or Medicaid were repealed when the GOP won the trifecta, right?

Sadly, I’m reality based, so we’re obviously talking about two different worlds.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 3:47 PM

Yeah, that hardcore right-winger Nixon was totally going to dismantle Medicare and Medicaid.

How many of those programs were passed after the electoral shift that happened with the Reagan revolution? Oh, right….none.

And Medicare and Medicaid were the biggest issues of those election cycles, because we weren’t, I don’t know, mired in a horribly unpopular war and then wracked by scandal?

Oh, and let’s count all those years that President Nixon and Ford had a GOP Congress. Why, there was….well….right, they never had one.

But yeah, let’s pretend the electorate of 2016 is the same electorate as 1972. That’s totally “reality-based.”

Let’s pretend that trying to repeal a program 6 years later is the same as trying to repeal it 20 years later. We didn’t have a GOP-led Senate until 1981. But we had the House, right? Oh, right, Tip O’Neill was Speaker of the House.

So when was the next time we had the “trifecta”? 2001, when we had Dubya, Hastert and Lott. Approximately 35 years after the birth of Medicare and Medicaid.

In the “reality-based world,” repealing a program 6 years after it was passed into law and less than 3 years after it actually started to be implemented is the same as repealing something passed three and a half decades ago.

Darn TruCons!11!11

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 4:02 PM

Call me what you want but he is right. The old system was bad. The current system is not good. It has plenty of hooks that appeal to different groups. I like that my kids who are 24 and have 2 jobs to make ends meet can be on my insurance. I pay for it. Its cheaper than Obamacare plans but its a good idea. We have offered no real solutions and we need to offer common sense fixes. Why is health care even tied to employment? It will not be repealed, the Supreme court put a nail in that coffin. Get over it and come up with a strategy that makes progress. Whining isn’t a good one. Rand calls it like it is. “You want the truth?? You cant handle the Truth!!!”

argusx2002 on April 28, 2014 at 4:02 PM

Joana sounds a lot like Meredith.

DisneyFan on April 28, 2014 at 4:02 PM

Joana, the practical conservative who knows how to win, writes:

Because you won’t have enough votes. Basically for the same reason you can’t outright repeal Medicare or Medicaid or Social Security. Because some parts of the [Obamacare] program are super popular.

Great. Joana has now put Obamacare in the same pantheon of programs as Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. You know, programs that were passed with heavy bipartisan support and have been in place for years.

Super duper popular. Don’t you forget it, you true blue conservatives.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:02 PM

They cannot just defund Obamacare unless they can override Obama’s veto. They have to shut down the government.

That might sound great to you (and to me!), but the People, in their Wisdom, will eviscerate Congress for it. In the real world what that means is the weakest supporters of a shutdown in Congress will be targeted, and they will roll right over.

fadetogray on April 28, 2014 at 3:52 PM

Shutting down the government doesn’t even stop Obamacare. Last year, when the government was shut down, the rollout continued forward. Because the law was designed so that the funding is mandatory and automatic unless specifically repealed by Congress.

Shump on April 28, 2014 at 4:02 PM

Is this thing a Moby, or a garden variety troll?

Augustinian on April 28, 2014 at 4:00 PM

Both?

One thing it certainly is…is tireless.

Bitter Clinger on April 28, 2014 at 4:02 PM

My premiums doubled to maintain the same level of coverage I had. How the hell is that so etching for free?!!?!

KMC1 on April 28, 2014 at 3:58 PM

“From each according to his abilities, to each according to his needs.”

You are a “from”, Obama voters are “to”s and get it for free.

Fallon on April 28, 2014 at 4:02 PM

The Wright Brothers said pretty much the same thing, then they built an airplane.

Akzed on April 28, 2014 at 4:02 PM

Augustinian on April 28, 2014 at 4:00 PM

You have good instincts. Nice to make your acquaintance. ; )

Bmore on April 28, 2014 at 4:02 PM

So…….

Paul, an avowed isolationist, has told us that amnesty, Obamacare, and gays “marrying” is all inevitable and the GOP should just surrender now.

Not exactly the way to win hearts and minds of the conservative base. Is he trying to get Jeb Bush or Chris Christie out of contention for running on a national ticket? As the dude who holds Killary’s purse during campaign rallies.

Happy Nomad on April 28, 2014 at 4:03 PM

Interesting choice of words by Paul. “…turn the clock back.” – as if what we had before was worse. “…particularly things that they get for free.” – Nobody’s getting anything for free, not even the poor. This program is an economic millstone around the neck of most in this country. I would say Rand is not his father’s son. Just another opportunistic politician.

rickv404 on April 28, 2014 at 4:03 PM

And of course, Reid is the majority leader because, according to “trucons”, having a Democrat in Senate is better than having Susan Collins. Which means they never get to put Obama “on the hot seat”.

You simply can’t make this stuff up.

joana on April 28, 2014 at 4:00 PM

You keep using that word. I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Augustinian on April 28, 2014 at 4:03 PM

The worst parts of Obamacare are in the details included in the 2400 pages, which institutionalizes government rationing of medical care using command and control bureaucracy. The heart of the death panels. The machinery of federal government control over our lives. And Rand doesn’t get this? As a doctor?

He’s starting to piss me off. Is this a Rand Paul Rubio moment? Is there any opposition party left in DC?

Merthin on April 28, 2014 at 4:03 PM

Great. Joanathe Republican Party has now put Obamacare in the same pantheon of programs as Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid. You know, programs that were passed with heavy bipartisan support and have been in place for years.

Super duper popular. Don’t you forget it, you true blue conservatives.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:02 PM

Fixed that for you.

oldroy on April 28, 2014 at 4:05 PM

I’m not advocating third party, I’m advocating Republicans who are not Democratlite.

Akzed on April 28, 2014 at 3:57 PM

The only way you will get there is if Republicans vote for conservatives and don’t vote for moderates. And anytime anyone, including me, suggests not voting for a moderate, we get excoriated because a RINO majority is better than no majority. But with that mentality, nothing in the Republican Party will ever change.

Shump on April 28, 2014 at 4:05 PM

Augustinian on April 28, 2014 at 4:00 PM

Apparently the mill doesn’t like what I said……or…….I have in fact been banned. At any rate. You have good instincts. Nice to make your acquaintance. ; )

Bmore on April 28, 2014 at 4:05 PM

I’m going with Moby, she can’t hide the natural condescension that every liberal holds dear.

Bishop on April 28, 2014 at 4:05 PM

Looking back in history, when the Whig leadership dragged its feet and loudly complained that slavery was difficult to overturn, the conservative base split and formed the Republican third party… and did what party leadership said couldn’t be done. The Whigs were left in the dustbin of history, while those that split ruled the party. dominigan on April 28, 2014 at 4:00 PM

Translation: the Whigs became the Republicans with a change in leadership and party identity. The Republicans were not a third party.

Akzed on April 28, 2014 at 4:05 PM

You keep using that word. I do not think that word means what you think it means.

Augustinian on April 28, 2014 at 4:03 PM

Joana has a list of all TruCons, and she’ll show it to the HUAC if they’d like to see it.

Joana also has the alternate history books that show all those GOP-led Congresses under Nixon, Ford, Reagan and Bush I.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 4:06 PM

I don’t know about you guys, but Rand Paul and Joana have me stoked to turn out at the polls this year.

I want to repeal “super duper popular” programs like Obamacare, and they’re telling me that will never happen.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:06 PM

“We win , they lo.. no to hard” Reagan

the_nile on April 28, 2014 at 4:07 PM

The media is looking at the stats and sees that their democrat senate friends are going to lose, so they are going to start printing the news to eat the GOP from the inside out. Don’t read AP headlines. They put a true statement by a republican, together with a conclusion that liberals want but the republican didn’t actually say, and announce that the republicans are finally seeing the light.

A lot of the headlines on immigration reform are like that. The make a sweeping statement and connect it to the fact that a particular republican says immigration is broken. They ask questions phrased to get the answer that they want to print. It’s a lot like the debate questions…they are framed to do the democrats dirty work for them. Oh, yes, and IF you think changing what the more conservative party calls itself, from Republican to Libertarian …or even Conservative…the media can ruin any brand in just a few minutes and the democrats don’t even have to pay the media bill.

Fleuries on April 28, 2014 at 4:07 PM

I’ve predicted for 2 1/2 years that the Whigs would run in 2014 as better managers of ObamaCare. There will be no repeal. Once amnesty is passed and Texas, Arizona etc. become blue states you are looking at not the USA but a once great nation that will be exploited as a carcass that the Southern Hemisphere will feed off, one piece of the North and South American Union.

kingsmill on April 28, 2014 at 4:07 PM

How exactly? Cut Veterans pensions some more, or gut the military more than it is? Obviously Paul isn’t looking to cut some real money. 17 TRILLION DOLLARS WILL be added to the debt under Obamacare. Less spending includes TAKING CARE of that eyesore. Warren or Paul, we are going off the cliff- it is just the speed that differs.

melle1228 on April 28, 2014 at 3:59 PM

$821,000,000,000 spent on the US military last year.

Reagan only managed to spend $281 Billion on Defense in 1987. Inflation adjusted that’s $567.39 Billion

Call me a Whaco Bird, but I think we can get by with a military budget equal to or less than we had at the peek of the Cold war.

Skipity on April 28, 2014 at 4:08 PM

Yes we can!

Skywise on April 28, 2014 at 4:08 PM

He is speaking the truth though.

farleftprogressive on April 28, 2014 at 4:08 PM

Change the funding back to where the House goes piecemeal and then see what things look like… bet its a lot harder to defend the IRS than it is Obamacare.

ajacksonian on April 28, 2014 at 4:00 PM

You are correct. It just isn’t going to happen in the real world where GOP Members of the House and Senate have their own favorite groups to give goodies.

The theory is correct. If we see a Presidential Candidate who makes this their central issue to run on (I WILL NOT SIGN AN OMNIBUS SPENDING BILL. I WILL VETO IT.), then we’d have reason to hope. Don’t hold your breath.

fadetogray on April 28, 2014 at 4:08 PM

I’m going with Moby, she can’t hide the natural condescension that every liberal holds dear.

Bishop on April 28, 2014 at 4:05 PM

Could be John “agent orange” Boehner staff, same sh!t.

the_nile on April 28, 2014 at 4:09 PM

would you rather hear some politician tell you they will repeal it on day 1? Than go looking for that guy. I am sure they jumping each other to scream, that they will single handedly repeal the law with their incredible charisma and charm.

he did not say it was impossible(which it is) he said difficult. If a man can’t even say something hard is hard than what can he say?

coolrepublica on April 28, 2014 at 3:59 PM

As with every issue, Paul comes across as squishy, nonchalant, and uncommitted. What does he stand for? What does he believe in? Will he have the same position tomorrow? In a month? In a year?

I’m not interested in any Republican candidate lying to us and claiming that they can repeal obamacare easily, and on day one, but, I do want Republicans to state, flat-out that full repeal is their goal, and that they will work toward that goal. Rand Paul does not seem interested or concerned.

Pork-Chop on April 28, 2014 at 4:09 PM

“I think it’s going to be difficult to turn the clock back. People get assumed and accustomed to receiving things, particularly things that they get for free,” he told a crowd of students at Harvard’s Institute of Politics on Friday…

You can’t turn back the clock but you can change directions. Please.

And what does “people get assumed” mean?!

Akzed on April 28, 2014 at 4:09 PM

Super duper popular. Don’t you forget it, you true blue conservatives.

Pincher Martin on April 28, 2014 at 4:02 PM

But Truman didn’t repeal SS from 1947-1948, nor did Eisenhower from 1953-1954, so it’s clearly impossible for President Rand to repeal the ACA in 2017 with a GOP-led Congress.

Good Solid B-Plus on April 28, 2014 at 4:10 PM

Is Rand Paul great or what!??

ToddPA on April 28, 2014 at 4:10 PM

Kingsmill,

Even with a Senate Majority, you can’t get Obama to sign a repeal of Obamacare, you are going to have to work to get a veto proof majority, or pull more tricks like Ted Cruz tried, this time with more power in the Senate. I wonder how long Obama would leave the government shut down because he doesn’t want to eat his peas.

Fleuries on April 28, 2014 at 4:10 PM

So, neither of the Rand Paul’s supporters on this thread can answer the question of why Rand Paul is promoting perpetuating the status quo rather than using the law to alter the trajectory healthcare in America?

That’s the rather hideous glory of Obamacare, with all its “the Secretary shall determine” discretionary authority.

Imagine a Bobby Jindal as Sec. DHHS. How would the trajectory of the law change? Once the trajectory is changed, could the law be altered to remove that discretionary authority?

There are benefits to letting the law stand. There are plenty of risks in doing so as well, especially when we have Repubs like Rand who seem to be buying into a self-fulfilling prophecy principle of failure here.

lineholder on April 28, 2014 at 4:10 PM

Is this thing a Moby, or a garden variety troll?

Augustinian on April 28, 2014 at 4:00 PM

Moby…

OmahaConservative on April 28, 2014 at 4:10 PM

Let’s face it, it’s going to be difficult to repeal ObamaCare at this point

Bullcrap. The only folks really hit by Obamacare to date are those in the individual insurance market, which is around 6%. The 80% that get health insurance through their employers will not be hit until November and maybe later if it’s delayed again.

NOW is as good a time as there will be.

slickwillie2001 on April 28, 2014 at 4:10 PM

If the employer mandate could be repealed in 2015 with a GOP majority in the Senate, it would eliminate most of the pain for employers and covered employees, and the only remaining effects would be those who lost insurance due to the individual mandate and those who signed up for Obamacare. Repeal of the employer mandate would also spark a hiring boom, once employers are out from under the threat of the employer mandate being imposed by Obama Administration fiat.

If Republicans win the Senate in November, they should repeal the employer mandate, without which the whole system comes crashing down. Obama himself has wanted to delay the employer mandate, because he knows its effects would be devastating to Democrats. If a Republican Congress repealed the employer mandate and sent the bill to Obama, Obama would have the choice of vetoing it to save an employer mandate that would only hurt Democrats in the elections of 2016, or signing it, and basically admitting that the entirety of Obamacare was a huge mistake.

Steve Z on April 28, 2014 at 4:10 PM

Thank You. ; ) I’m not banned!

Bmore on April 28, 2014 at 4:11 PM

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