Quotes of the day

posted at 10:01 pm on April 28, 2014 by Allahpundit

***

In the past, Pope Francis has spoken out against economic systems that reinforce inequality, saying last year that “there was the promise that once the glass had become full it would overflow and the poor would benefit. But what happens is that when it’s full to the brim, the glass magically grows, and thus nothing ever comes out for the poor.” While right-wing American critics have been quick to criticize the pope for his economic remarks, his words appear to resonate with the masses. More than 5,000 people have retweeted the statement within three hours.

***

Could it be that the Pope is weighing in on the fervor sparked by French economist Thomas Piketty’s current bestseller, Capital in the Twenty-First Century?

It’s unclear. But the tweet’s timing — days after the book sold out on Amazon, where it is currently the best-selling book in the U.S. — could suggest the Pope’s support for Piketty, who posits that an unregulated free market creates an ever-widening wealth gap…

The Pontiff’s warning comes months after he called unfettered capitalism “a new tyranny” and urged global leaders to fight growing income inequality in his first major written work as pope.

He laid out the platform for his papacy in the 84-page document last November, attacking the “idolatry of money” and calling on politicians to guarantee all citizens “dignified work, education and healthcare.”

***

The Pope can count headline-grabbing French economist Thomas Piketty and the International Monetary Fund as allies in the fight against inequality…

The IMF’s analysis also undermines warnings from free market supporters that policies to redistribute wealth such as progressive taxes on high earners will discourage “wealth creators” and hamper the economy.

“Redistribution appears generally benign in terms of its impact on growth,” the IMF writes. “Thus the combined direct and indirect effects of redistribution—including the growth effects of the resulting lower inequality—are on average pro-growth.”

The growing chorus against inequality, from across the political and economic spectrum, has thrust it into the centre of public debate, as economists, politicians and pontiffs point out how dangerous the staggering rise in inequality is to the economy and how it needs to be solved.

***

The Latin version of this tweet is even simpler: Iniquitas radix malorum. That phrase has a somewhat different meaning.

Iniquitas can be translated as “inequality,” it’s true. But it also can mean “iniquity” or “injustice,” and in this context either word would make more sense. The same would seem true of the word L’inequita used in the Italian version, which the Pope himself could have written. The Spanish tweet ( desigualdad) admittedly looks more like the English…

However it’s translated, the tweet is an obvious reference to the familiar phrase that “the love of money is the root of all evils.” (Radix malorum est cupiditas) If you assume that the love of money leads to iniquities—and, yes, fosters inequality—then Pope Francis (or his ghost-writer) is making a well-known point in a different way. That’s kinda the purpose of Twitter, isn’t it?

***

Francis has been saying things a lot like this for years, most recently last autumn. Each time, the voices of largely American conservatives explaining that he has been misunderstood get a little less self-assured. It is – even for a Republican party hack – difficult to mistake what the Pope meant, although one site has already made a heroic attempt by translating the tweet into Latin: it appears to be a denunciation of injustice rather than inequality. But in last autumn’s essay, Evangelii Gaudium, Francis wrote that: “Just as the commandment ‘Thou shalt not kill’ sets a clear limit in order to safeguard the value of human life, today we also have to say ‘Thou shalt not’ to an economy of exclusion and inequality. Such an economy kills … Today everything comes under the laws of competition and the survival of the fittest, where the powerful feed upon the powerless. As a consequence, masses of people find themselves excluded and marginalised: without work, without possibilities, without any means of escape. Human beings are themselves considered consumer goods to be used and then discarded.”

The claim that human beings have an intrinsic value in themselves, irrespective of their usefulness to other people, is one that unites Christianity and socialism. It can be even found somewhere in the shadows of Marxism, but there humans gain their value from history, and when they stand in its way, that’s tough for them, as the millions of Stalin’s victims could tell us. But if you think the market is the real world, it makes no sense at all, since in the market, value is simply the outcome of supply and demand…

What he really believes is that riches in themselves are bad for people. That is part of the reason he does not live in the papal apartments. This is not a view shared throughout the Catholic hierarchy. Nor is it really, whole-heartedly, shared by the politicians who will praise his views. I don’t see any party anywhere in the world, except perhaps the Greens, running for election on the basis that they will make the voters poorer but more virtuous.

***

In just a year, the business has recovered a lot of its self-confidence. The CEO is popular: 85% of American Catholics—a tough audience—approve of him. Footfall in RC Global’s retail outlets is rising again. The salesforce now talks about a “Francis effect”. How has a septuagenarian Argentine succeeded in galvanising one of the world’s stodgiest outfits? Essentially by grasping three management principles.

The first is a classic lesson in core competences. Francis has refocused his organisation on one mission: helping the poor. One of his first decisions was to forsake the papal apartments in favour of a boarding house which he shares with 50 other priests and sundry visitors. He took the name of a saint who is famous for looking after the poor and animals. He washed and kissed the feet of 12 inmates of a juvenile-detention centre. He got rid of the fur-trimmed velvet capes that popes have worn since the Renaissance, swapped Benedict’s red shoes for plain black ones and ignored his fully loaded Mercedes in favour of a battered Ford.

This new focus has allowed the company to spend fewer resources on ancillary businesses, such as engaging in doctrinal disputes or staging elaborate ceremonies. The “poor-first strategy” is also aimed squarely at emerging markets, where the potential for growth is greatest but competition fiercest.

***

Pope Francis
By Barack Obama

Rare is the leader who makes us want to be better people. Pope Francis is such a leader.

His Holiness has moved us with his message of inclusion, especially for the poor, the marginalized and the outcast. But it has been his deeds, his bearing, the gestures at once simple and profound — embracing the sick, ministering to the homeless, washing the feet of young prisoners — that have inspired us all.

Pope Francis reminds us in ways that words alone cannot that no matter our station in life, we are bound by moral obligations to one another. His example challenges us to live out those obligations through work — to alleviate poverty, reduce inequality and promote peace; to feed the hungry, shelter the homeless, care for the sick and open new doors of opportunity and visions of possibility for everyone. His message of love and inclusion, his regard for “the least of these,” distills the essence of Jesus’ teachings and is a tonic for a cynical age. May we heed his humble example.


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Comment pages: 1 10 11 12

My take: Obama’s Secretary of State, John Kerry, Says that Israel Will Become an “Apartheid State”, If They Don’t Give Half of Their Country to “The Palestinians”.

kingsjester on April 29, 2014 at 6:52 AM

My take is that Ted Cruz is correct. When the American Secretary of State says something so offensive; well this administration will have no credibility in Tel Aviv so long as Kerry and Obama are in office.

Sadly though, American Jews are so partisan they will support the rat-eared wonder and his minions to the death.

Happy Nomad on April 29, 2014 at 6:58 AM

I wonder what Pope Francis makes of THIS verse:

Cleombrotus on April 29, 2014 at 6:57 AM

Maybe he hasn’t gotten that far in the Bible yet. ;0

Happy Nomad on April 29, 2014 at 7:00 AM

OverNight:

Trail of dead cows lays bare the destruction of Southern tornadoes as another 11 die in powerful Alabama, Mississippi and Tennessee twisters

The three states were hit by a series of tornadoes on Monday evening
At least 11 people are reported dead – seven in Mississippi, two confirmed in Alabama and two more in Tennessee
A woman died earlier on Monday in Mississippi when her car either hydroplaned or blew off a road during the storm in Verona, south of Tupelo
Mississippi Gov. Phil Bryant had earlier declared a state of emergency in advance of the dangerous storms
Twisters killed at least 15 people in Arkansas and Oklahoma on Sunday and the powerful storm system is set to continue to threatened large parts of the South until Wednesday

By Associated Press

Published: 23:36 GMT, 28 April 2014 | Updated: 10:59 GMT, 29 April 2014
***********************************************************************

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2615451/Arkansas-tornado-leaves-horrifying-trail-dead-injured-farm-animals-just-tornado-blows-Mississippi-no-fatalities.html

canopfor on April 29, 2014 at 7:03 AM

kingsjester on April 29, 2014 at 6:52 AM

My take is that Ted Cruz is correct. When the American Secretary of State says something so offensive; well this administration will have no credibility in Tel Aviv so long as Kerry and Obama are in office.

Sadly though, American Jews are so partisan they will support the rat-eared wonder and his minions to the death.

Happy Nomad on April 29, 2014 at 6:58 AM

Happy Nomad:)
==================

http://dailyrushbo.com/

Apr 14
28
MARK LEVIN: ‘Anti-Semite’ Kerry Should Resign
*********************************************

http://dailyrushbo.com/mark-levin-anti-semite-kerry-should-resign/

The Associated Press ‏@AP 1h

John Kerry says he chose wrong word after criticism for saying Israel could become an “apartheid state”: http://apne.ws/1jc112c
=========================================================

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/kerry-backs-israel-apartheid-remark

canopfor on April 29, 2014 at 7:06 AM

Sadly, most people see this inequality thing from the point of view of envy or a manipulation of class warfare.

I believe that the issue is not an isolated economic failure-but a moral failure–perhaps much of it the failure of Francis’s (and my) Church to properly teach about the consequence of sin and personal responsibility.

What ever happened to the mission of salvation? Are we to now believe that a change in an economic structure will eradicate evil?
Why is it that the people of the great depression’s poverty didn’t slip into grave evil as we see endemic among the poor now? Do we buy the belief that poverty causes evil or is it perhaps more so the other way around?

Couldn’t this really be about a failure to properly teach the faith?

Don L on April 29, 2014 at 5:41 AM

I think maybe it is a response to cynicism?

Cynicism is a corroding factor in society….and is usually kept in check.

workingclass artist on April 29, 2014 at 7:06 AM

thatsafactjack on April 29, 2014 at 2:49 AM

I’m gonna have to start reading Byron.

Cleombrotus on April 29, 2014 at 7:11 AM

Maybe he hasn’t gotten that far in the Bible yet. ;0

Happy Nomad on April 29, 2014 at 7:00 AM

Bible schmible. He’s the pope, dammit darn it. He can say and do whatever he wants and still be considered a worthy office holder by probably most of his flock.

non-nonpartisan on April 29, 2014 at 7:11 AM

Happy Nomad on April 29, 2014 at 7:00 AM

Heh heh heh. Good one.

Cleombrotus on April 29, 2014 at 7:11 AM

Couldn’t this really be about a failure to properly teach understand the faith?

Don L on April 29, 2014 at 5:41 AM

FIFY

Cleombrotus on April 29, 2014 at 7:13 AM

OOPS!!

Harry Reid
11h
Capitol Police say they’re investigating threatening statements made toward Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev. – @frankthorpNBC

https://twitter.com/frankthorpNBC

canopfor on April 29, 2014 at 7:14 AM

canopfor on April 29, 2014 at 7:03 AM

I was watching Fox News yesterday afternoon. They were covering a storm bearing down on Tupelo, MS. I swear to God that Shep Smith seemed to be rooting for the storm.

Happy Nomad on April 29, 2014 at 7:15 AM

If your eye is not sound, cut it out and throw it away. For it is better to enter eternity with one eye than with two to be thrown into the outer darkness. – Jesus

Cleombrotus on April 29, 2014 at 7:15 AM

Capitol Police say they’re investigating threatening statements made toward Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev. –

canopfor on April 29, 2014 at 7:14 AM

Pish posh! Who would threaten Harry Reid? He’s the sweetest, kindest, most gentle Senator we’ve seen in our lifetimes. You’d probably have to go back to the days when Senators carried snuff boxes to find the last shining example of civility, decorum, and true public service.

Threatening statements should be saved for thugs and criminals.

Happy Nomad on April 29, 2014 at 7:18 AM

Sadly though, American Jews are so partisan they will support the rat-eared wonder and his minions to the death.

Happy Nomad on April 29, 2014 at 6:58 AM

I think it’s been awhile since Israel had any respect for the ant-semites in our White house.

crankyoldlady on April 29, 2014 at 7:20 AM

- You shall not steal.
- You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.

Just sayin’.

justltl on April 29, 2014 at 7:21 AM

Severe weather outbreak in Midwest, South US, April 26-29, 2014
6m
Photo: Morning view of damage to home that was picked off its foundation and thrown into house across street in Lincoln County, Tenn. – @WSMV_AnneMcCloy

https://twitter.com/WSMV_AnneMcCloy/status/461096578107723776

canopfor on April 29, 2014 at 7:21 AM

debauchery – Excessive indulgence in sensual pleasures.

decadence – Moral or cultural decline as characterized by excessive indulgence in pleasure or luxury.

cynicism – An inclination to believe that people are motivated purely by self-interest; skepticism.

corruption – Dishonest or fraudulent conduct by those in power, typically involving bribery.

hypocrisy – The practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one’s own behavior does not conform; pretense.

nihilism – The rejection of all religious and moral principles, often in the belief that life is meaningless.

http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/us

These are the times we live in.

workingclass artist on April 29, 2014 at 7:22 AM

Cynicism is a corroding factor in society….and is usually kept in check.

workingclass artist on April 29, 2014 at 7:06 AM

I always see cynicism as the opposite of gullibility.

crankyoldlady on April 29, 2014 at 7:23 AM

canopfor on April 29, 2014 at 7:03 AM

I was watching Fox News yesterday afternoon. They were covering a storm bearing down on Tupelo, MS. I swear to God that Shep Smith seemed to be rooting for the storm.

Happy Nomad on April 29, 2014 at 7:15 AM

Happy Nomad:No way,..on Sheppy, ..(sarc):0

Video: A person drives through severe weather as a tornado touches down in Tupelo, Miss., yesterday – YouTube user TVWXMAN32 (some explicit language)

Tupelo tornado

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTf_1MbTbZM

canopfor on April 29, 2014 at 7:24 AM

- You shall not steal.
- You shall not covet your neighbor’s goods.

Just sayin’.

justltl on April 29, 2014 at 7:21 AM

Indeed.

workingclass artist on April 29, 2014 at 7:24 AM

Going Postal:

Shooting at FedEx in Kennesaw, Ga., April 29, 2014
Kennesaw, GA, US
3m
Photo: Authorities on the scene of a suspected workplace shooting at a FedEx facility in Kennesaw, Ga. – @FOX5Atlanta
see original on twitter.com
=============================

Kennesaw, GA, US
4m
6 injured in suspected workplace shooting at FedEx in Kennesaw, Ga.; law enforcement responding to scene – @FOX5Atlanta
read more on myfoxatlanta.com

http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/shooting-at-fedex-in-kennesaw-ga-april-29-2014/

canopfor on April 29, 2014 at 7:26 AM

Happy Nomad on April 29, 2014 at 7:15 AM

Shep used to work in Tupelo. He graduated from Ole Miss. No doubt, while he was down here in the Magnolia State, somebody criticized his Political Ideology…and, quite probably…his lifestyle.

He probably was rooting for the tornado. Schmuck.

kingsjester on April 29, 2014 at 7:26 AM

The Associated Press ‏@AP 5h

Severe weather kills 26 so far: Little Rock, Ark.-At least 15 Oklahoma-1 Iowa-1 Mississippi-7 Alabama-2 http://apne.ws/1ivg5cq
Expand

https://twitter.com/AP

canopfor on April 29, 2014 at 7:27 AM

Good morning ladies and gentlemen. They were worried about Honest Lib last night. Didn’t he say he lived near the FL border. For those who don’t go back and read. Doc was ok. They were huddled in the closet.

My sanseveria is blooming. When it does that I have to put it outside. Nice aroma but overpowering. Must be an ancient device for attracting insects.

crankyoldlady on April 29, 2014 at 7:27 AM

Chalk this up to a First World Order problem:

The Louisiana state House of Representatives unanimously passed a bill Monday night to require arms on at least five percent of seats in a new or renovated state building.

I can’t even figure out the rationale for this unless the critter that introduced this bill has a business manufacturing chairs or something.

Happy Nomad on April 29, 2014 at 7:30 AM

canopfor on April 29, 2014 at 7:14 AM

Pish posh! Who would threaten Harry Reid? He’s the sweetest, kindest, most gentle Senator we’ve seen in our lifetimes. You’d probably have to go back to the days when Senators carried snuff boxes to find the last shining example of civility, decorum, and true public service.

Threatening statements should be saved for thugs and criminals.

Happy Nomad on April 29, 2014 at 7:18 AM

Happy Nomad:

Lol,..your description reminds me of the scene:


Heavy Metal Captain Stern & Hanover Fist
****************************************

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tHgMsvpFm08

canopfor on April 29, 2014 at 7:33 AM

Happy Nomad on April 29, 2014 at 7:30 AM

Even more astounding is that it was passed unanimously!

Cleombrotus on April 29, 2014 at 7:33 AM

Shep used to work in Tupelo. He graduated from Ole Miss. No doubt, while he was down here in the Magnolia State, somebody criticized his Political Ideology…and, quite probably…his lifestyle.

He probably was rooting for the tornado. Schmuck.

kingsjester on April 29, 2014 at 7:26 AM

With all the attractive females on the network, I don’t know why Fox News insists on keeping Shep on the payroll. He should have been fired after his meltdown at the Morial Convention Center following Hurricane Katrina. He’d interrupt moderating a Presidential debate to follow a car chase in Southern California. He is indeed a schmuck.

Happy Nomad on April 29, 2014 at 7:34 AM

Even more astounding is that it was passed unanimously!

Cleombrotus on April 29, 2014 at 7:33 AM

I guess nobody wanted to be accused of being biased against chair having arms. Thus these affirmative action program set asides. ;0

Happy Nomad on April 29, 2014 at 7:36 AM

Speaking of Shep, I encourage everyone to watch Harris Faulkner on Fox News Sunday night from 7 pm to 8 pm. She has a very nice recap of the news, and her Political Insiders segment at 7:30 with Pat Cadell is outstanding.

esr1951 on April 29, 2014 at 7:39 AM

I guess nobody wanted to be accused of being biased against chair having arms. Thus these affirmative action program set asides. ;0

Happy Nomad on April 29, 2014 at 7:36 AM

And why only 5 percent. Why not half. Every other one. I could understand that. It might have something to do with people who need arms on chairs in order to get up from sitting.

crankyoldlady on April 29, 2014 at 7:40 AM

Cynicism is a corroding factor in society….and is usually kept in check.

workingclass artist on April 29, 2014 at 7:06 AM

I always see cynicism as the opposite of gullibility.

crankyoldlady on April 29, 2014 at 7:23 AM

There is such a thing as a healthy skepticism….as you describe based on common sense and the wisdom of experience.

Cynicism unchecked can corrode and distort a person’s perception and response to the challenges of life…imho

Cynicism unchecked can lead to the devaluation of life and a brutal response to social conditions such as those described in the literature of Dickens or Hugo’s Les Miserables.

Les Miserables is a great example of unchecked cynicism pervasive in a morally depraved culture. How cynicism unchecked can distort and corrupt at the individual level and the larger social construct of unjust governance by unaccountable bureaucracy.

Cynicism unchecked can lead to despair….the loss of hope.

workingclass artist on April 29, 2014 at 7:41 AM

I don’t know what to say about Shep. He must have an audience and he’s giving them what they want.

crankyoldlady on April 29, 2014 at 7:41 AM

Cynicism unchecked can lead to despair….the loss of hope.

workingclass artist on April 29, 2014 at 7:41 AM

Then I guess I’m not cynical, just skeptical.

crankyoldlady on April 29, 2014 at 7:42 AM

They said a tornado went through Louisville MS and right through a state senator’s neighborhood. I thought they weren’t allowed to do that. Someone forgot to tell Mother Nature.

crankyoldlady on April 29, 2014 at 7:44 AM

MeanWhile,…the Sponsors flee the Clipper Racist Ship:

Clippers owner Donald Sterling alleged racist remarks

http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/clippers-owner-donald-sterling-racist-remarks-allegations/
======================

STAPLES Center on Los Angeles Clippers

Mercedes-Benz USA

Sprint

Santa Ynez Band of Chumash Indians, Chumash Casino Resort

R&B singer Tank says he won’t perform national anthem

Anheuser-Busch: As official beer of NBA

Red Bull

Virgin America

Kia

CarMax

State Farm

canopfor on April 29, 2014 at 7:45 AM

I guess nobody wanted to be accused of being biased against chair having arms. Thus these affirmative action program set asides. ;0

Happy Nomad on April 29, 2014 at 7:36 AM

Happy Nomad:)
==================

AP Politics ‏@AP_Politics 19h

Justice Dept. to collect data on police stops, arrests in 5 cities to study racial bias: http://apne.ws/1mRwdqx

http://bigstory.ap.org/article/justice-dept-collect-data-stops-arrests

canopfor on April 29, 2014 at 7:50 AM

Then I guess I’m not cynical, just skeptical.

crankyoldlady on April 29, 2014 at 7:42 AM

Skepticism assumes that there at least is a correct answer but cynicism assumes that there are no answers.

Cleombrotus on April 29, 2014 at 7:59 AM

Justice Dept. to collect data on police stops, arrests in 5 cities to study racial bias: http://apne.ws/1mRwdqx

canopfor on April 29, 2014 at 7:50 AM

The $4.75 million project will be funded through grants; the cities will be named later.

Well, I’m guessing the cities will be specially selected to prove that predominantly white police forces harrass blacks and Hispanics in disproportionate numbers compared to whites. Seriously, this doesn’t sound like a study in racial bias at all.

Happy Nomad on April 29, 2014 at 8:01 AM

Then I guess I’m not cynical, just skeptical.

crankyoldlady on April 29, 2014 at 7:42 AM

: )

Most of us are to one degree or another…otherwise we wouldn’t care about our country.

Many skeptics critically examine the meaning systems of their times, and this examination often results in a position of ambiguity or doubt.

The Age of Reason…The Enlightenment was an Age of Skepticism and resulted in social,economic and political upheaval such as our Revolution. Ben Franklin used a healthy skepticism to great effect…to our benefit.

The truly cynical lose interest in justice or real solutions except in how they can manipulate appearances of such to achieve their agenda. This is what Machiavelli wrote about in The Prince.

It is healthy to have balanced friction between liberality and conservatism in society…but we have lost that balance….imho…

workingclass artist on April 29, 2014 at 8:04 AM

Skepticism assumes that there at least is a correct answer but cynicism assumes that there are no answers.

Cleombrotus on April 29, 2014 at 7:59 AM

Indeed.

workingclass artist on April 29, 2014 at 8:05 AM

None of us can think we are exempt from concern for the poor and for social justice – Pope Francis.

“But woe to you Pharisees! for you tithe mint and rue and every herb, and neglect justice and the love of God; these you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. – Jesus

Cleombrotus on April 29, 2014 at 8:12 AM

None of us can think we are exempt from concern for the poor and for social justice – Pope Francis.

“But woe to you Pharisees! for you tithe mint and rue and every herb, and neglect justice and the love of God; these you ought to have done, without neglecting the others. – Jesus

Cleombrotus on April 29, 2014 at 8:12 AM

?

workingclass artist on April 29, 2014 at 8:16 AM

This guy’s a Humanist; strictly a Humanist, in priestly garb.

Cleombrotus on April 29, 2014 at 8:16 AM

?

workingclass artist on April 29, 2014 at 8:16 AM

He thinks the Gospel is primarily about this life.

If for this life only we have hoped in Christ, we are of all men most to be pitied. 1 Corinthians 15:19

Cleombrotus on April 29, 2014 at 8:18 AM

This guy’s a Humanist; strictly a Humanist, in priestly garb.

Cleombrotus on April 29, 2014 at 8:16 AM

Maybe…

I’m not sure exactly as he hasn’t written much…yet.

St. Francis of Assisi,Erasmus, St. Thomas More and GK Chesterton were Christian Humanists….to name a few…

workingclass artist on April 29, 2014 at 8:29 AM

He NEVER mentions that the world needs to repent and accept Christ; he always deals with such economic matters. He’s always pitting the rich against the poor.

Cleombrotus on April 29, 2014 at 8:30 AM

Among the more graphic illustrations from the Old Testament is in Exodus 16 – speaks to how the Jews were fed during their time following Moses in the desert. Each day bread would fall from the heavens and the people would go out and gather the manna. There was always enough for everyone but is an individual decided to keep more than his / her share the bread would go bad. Sharing for the good of all was a 40 year teaching experience in how God takes care of you and your neighbor.

Makai77 on April 29, 2014 at 8:34 AM

He NEVER mentions that the world needs to repent and accept Christ; he always deals with such economic matters. He’s always pitting the rich against the poor.

Cleombrotus on April 29, 2014 at 8:30 AM

I dunno…He regularly mentions Satan in his sermons and repentance and reconciliation.

Social Justice is not just about economic theory and applications…It is based on doctrine written by St. Augustine.

In other words…Pope Francis outs himself as a Catholic.

*shrug*

workingclass artist on April 29, 2014 at 8:36 AM

What was the attitude of the early Church Fathers as to their message to the world?

For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?
God judges those outside. “Drive out the wicked person from among you.” 1 Corinthians 5:12-13

They understood that, by nature, there would be inequalities in the world (“The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me” – Jesus) and that the mission of the church wasn’t to correct those inequalities but to lead men OUT of “the World” to Christ.

Cleombrotus on April 29, 2014 at 8:36 AM

Social Justice is not just about economic theory and applications…
In other words…Pope Francis outs himself as a Catholic.

*shrug*

workingclass artist on April 29, 2014 at 8:36 AM

It is as expressed by Francis. The term “social” justice has explicitly and exclusively economic connotations; not spiritual.

Cleombrotus on April 29, 2014 at 8:38 AM

Listen, I was raised a devout Catholic so I know how difficult it is too deal with the possibility that the leadership is in error.

But it happened in the 1st century and it can happen in the 21st century.

Cleombrotus on April 29, 2014 at 8:42 AM

Gotta go to work. Take care, wca.

Cleombrotus on April 29, 2014 at 8:46 AM

What was the attitude of the early Church Fathers as to their message to the world?

For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge?
God judges those outside. “Drive out the wicked person from among you.” 1 Corinthians 5:12-13

They understood that, by nature, there would be inequalities in the world (“The poor you will always have with you, but you will not always have me” – Jesus) and that the mission of the church wasn’t to correct those inequalities but to lead men OUT of “the World” to Christ.

Cleombrotus on April 29, 2014 at 8:36 AM

1 When the day of Pentecost came round, while they were all gathered together in unity of purpose, 2 all at once a sound came from heaven like that of a strong wind blowing, and filled the whole house where they were sitting. 3 Then appeared to them what seemed to be tongues of fire, which parted and came to rest on each of them; 4 and they were all filled with the Holy Spirit, and began to speak in strange languages, as the Spirit gave utterance to each.[1] 5 Among those who were dwelling in Jerusalem at this time were devout Jews from every country under heaven;[2] 6 so, when the noise of this went abroad, the crowd which gathered was in bewilderment; each man severally heard them speak in his own language. 7 And they were all beside themselves with astonishment; Are they not all Galileans speaking? they asked. 8 How is it that each of us hears them talking his own native tongue? 9 There are Parthians among us, and Medes, and Elamites; our homes are in Mesopotamia, or Judaea,[3] or Cappadocia; in Pontus or Asia, 10 Phrygia or Pamphylia, Egypt or the parts of Libya round Cyrene; some of us are visitors from Rome, 11 some of us are Jews and others proselytes; there are Cretans among us too, and Arabians; and each has been hearing them tell of God’s wonders in his own language. 12 So they were all beside themselves with perplexity, and asked one another, What can this mean? 13 There were others who said, mockingly, They have had their fill of new wine.

14 But Peter, with the eleven apostles at his side, stood there and raised his voice to speak to them; Men of Judaea, he said, and all you who are dwelling in Jerusalem, I must tell you this; listen to what I have to say. 15 These men are not drunk, as you suppose; it is only the third hour of the day. 16 This is what was foretold by the prophet Joel: 17 In the last times, God says, I will pour out my spirit upon all mankind, and your sons and daughters will be prophets. Your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams; 18 and I will pour out my spirit in those days upon my servants and hand-maids, so that they will prophesy. 19 I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs on the earth beneath, blood and fire and whirling smoke; 20 the sun will be turned into darkness and the moon into blood, before the day of the Lord comes, great and glorious. 21 And then everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved.[4] 22 Men of Israel, listen to this. Jesus of Nazareth was a man duly accredited to you from God; such were the miracles and wonders and signs which God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves well know. 23 This man you have put to death; by God’s fixed design and foreknowledge, he was betrayed to you, and you, through the hands of sinful men, have cruelly murdered him. 24 But God raised him up again, releasing him from the pangs of death; it was impossible that death should have the mastery over him. 25 It is in his person that David says, Always I can keep the Lord within sight; always he is at my right hand, to make me stand firm. 26 So there is gladness in my heart, and rejoicing on my lips; my body, too, shall rest in confidence 27 that thou wilt not leave my soul in the place of death, or allow thy faithful servant to see corruption. 28 Thou hast shewn me the way of life; thou wilt make me full of gladness in thy presence.[5]

29 My brethren, I can say this to you about the patriarch David without fear of contradiction, that he did die, and was buried, and his tomb is among us to this day. 30 But he was a prophet, and he knew God had promised him on oath that he would set the sons of his body upon his throne; 31 it was of the Christ he said, foreseeing his resurrection, that he was not left in the place of death, and that his body did not see corruption. 32 God, then, has raised up this man, Jesus, from the dead; we are all witnesses of it. 33 And now, exalted at God’s right hand, he has claimed from his Father his promise to bestow the Holy Spirit; and he has poured out that Spirit, as you can see and hear for yourselves. 34 David never went up to heaven, and yet David has told us, The Lord said to my Master, Sit on my right hand, 35 while I make thy enemies a footstool under thy feet.[6] 36 Let it be known, then, beyond doubt, to all the house of Israel, that God has made him Master and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.

37 When they heard this, their consciences were stung; and they asked Peter and his fellow apostles, Brethren, what must we do? 38 Repent, Peter said to them, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ, to have your sins forgiven; then you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 39 This promise is for you and for your children, and for all those, however far away, whom the Lord our God calls to himself. 40 And he used many more words besides, urgently appealing to them; Save yourselves, he said, from this false-minded generation. 41 So all those who had taken his words to heart were baptized, and about three thousand souls were won for the Lord that day. 42 These occupied themselves continually with the apostles’ teaching, their fellowship in the breaking of bread, and the fixed times of prayer,[7] 43 and every soul was struck with awe, so many were the wonders and signs performed by the apostles in Jerusalem. 44 All the faithful held together, and shared all they had, 45 selling their possessions and their means of livelihood, so as to distribute to all, as each had need. 46 They persevered with one accord, day by day, in the temple worship, and, as they broke bread in this house or that, took their share of food with gladness and simplicity of heart, 47 praising God, and winning favour with all the people. And each day the Lord added to their fellowship others that were to be saved. – Acts 2

http://www.newadvent.org/bible/act002.htm#vrs14

workingclass artist on April 29, 2014 at 8:54 AM

Gotta go to work. Take care, wca.

Cleombrotus on April 29, 2014 at 8:46 AM

Have a good day.

: )

workingclass artist on April 29, 2014 at 8:55 AM

It is as expressed by Francis. The term “social” justice has explicitly and exclusively economic connotations; not spiritual.

Cleombrotus on April 29, 2014 at 8:38 AM

Many ideas have been hijacked and distorted to push a specific agenda…St. Augustine’s philosophy is not immune to that as seen in the distortion of Liberation Theology.

workingclass artist on April 29, 2014 at 8:58 AM

Pope Francis
By Barack Obama

Rare is the leader who makes us want to be better people. Pope Francis is such a leader.

FYI: Both these men are “Liberation Theology” Christians. No surprise. (Well, Obama is a LT when he bothers to go to church. But that Chicago church he went to was Black Liberation Theology.

As a Christian, I have concern about the well being of the poor-and have contributed my time and money to that cause.

As a Christian, I cannot support Big-Government solutions to helping the poor – these schemes always seem to end with a few having relatively total power over our lives, while the poor’s lot stays the same or gets worse.

What IS SOCIAL JUSTICE? And why does it always end in the peoples’ loss of power and control over their own lives?

LilyBart on April 29, 2014 at 9:02 AM

Are you still here workingclass ?

celtic warrior on April 29, 2014 at 9:03 AM

Are you still here workingclass ?

celtic warrior on April 29, 2014 at 9:03 AM

yep…Good Mornin’

workingclass artist on April 29, 2014 at 9:10 AM

What IS SOCIAL JUSTICE? And why does it always end in the peoples’ loss of power and control over their own lives?

LilyBart on April 29, 2014 at 9:02 AM

Primer on St. Augustine at the link:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02091a.htm

Primer on his works:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02089a.htm

workingclass artist on April 29, 2014 at 9:13 AM

Fight the good fight. The church will survive this current Pontiff. We have had worse. I admire your dedication to the truth of 20 centuries of Christianity. You are running the good race ( St.Paul).

celtic warrior on April 29, 2014 at 9:18 AM

FYI: Both these men are “Liberation Theology” Christians.

LilyBart on April 29, 2014 at 9:02 AM

“In reality, one of the most severe critics of this theological current has been the present pope.

Even in recent years – for example, in the questioning to which he was subjected by the Argentine magistracy on November 8, 2010, published in its entirety in recent days in the book “La lista di Bergoglio” – the then-archbishop of Buenos Aires did not fail to criticize in liberation theology “the use of a Marxist hermeneutic.”

But his criticism was not limited to this. It went deeper. It concerned the primacy of faith in judging reality and inspiring the consequent practice.

In 2007, in Brazil, at the Marian shrine of Aparecida, the Latin American bishops discussed and disputed precisely about this. And Archbishop Jorge Mario Bergoglio was decisive in making prevail the primacy of faith with respect to that assigned to the poor in the name of an “ideologized” interpretation of reality.

As pope, Bergoglio has not forgotten about that conflict. On the contrary, during his voyage to Rio de Janeiro, in addressing on July 28 the representatives of the Latin American episcopal conferences, he warned them that the “socializing reductionism” defeated in Aparecida continues to tempt the Church today.

In Aparecida, in 2007, Bergoglio was the president of the commission that wrote the conclusions of the conference.

The role that he played on that occasion was so authoritative and decisive as to influence, six years later, his election as pope of “a Church that is poor and for the poor….”

http://www.celam.org/conferencia_aparecida.php

“The two connected instructions of 1984 and 1986 with which the congregation for the doctrine of the faith headed by Joseph Ratzinger denounced the “deviations and risks of dangerous deviations for Christian faith and life” of liberation theology.

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19840806_theology-liberation_en.html

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19860322_freedom-liberation_en.html

workingclass artist on April 29, 2014 at 9:32 AM

Fight the good fight. The church will survive this current Pontiff. We have had worse. I admire your dedication to the truth of 20 centuries of Christianity. You are running the good race ( St.Paul).

celtic warrior on April 29, 2014 at 9:18 AM

Indeed.

I’m not sure about this Pope as I think its a bit early in his pontificate….and of course he’s the first Jesuit.

We are all of us soldiers and pilgrims.

: )

workingclass artist on April 29, 2014 at 9:35 AM

workingclass artist on April 29, 2014 at 9:35 AM

I can tell from my experience from life that you are a good man. Semper fi.

celtic warrior on April 29, 2014 at 9:39 AM

Pope from Marxist hellhole supports Marxist ideas. Shocker.

Lehosh on April 29, 2014 at 9:57 AM

Pope from Marxist hellhole supports Marxist ideas. Shocker.

Lehosh on April 29, 2014 at 9:57 AM

Idiots abound .

celtic warrior on April 29, 2014 at 10:14 AM

Fight the good fight. The church will survive this current Pontiff. We have had worse. I admire your dedication to the truth of 20 centuries of Christianity. You are running the good race ( St.Paul).
celtic warrior on April 29, 2014 at 9:18 AM

Just make sure your faith is in Christ and not in an institution. Regardless of how long it’s been around.

Cleombrotus on April 29, 2014 at 10:36 AM

Holy crapoli, OC !!!
FINALLY reading the Rand Paul/ Snowe thread !!

The equal-opportunity-h8r, joana, spews a VERY familiar spirit, via her expressions of self-important demands and insistance that disagreements = non-existent insults aimed at ‘her’.
Whew.

God bless Cindy .. Shines like the jewel we all know her to be.

pambi on April 29, 2014 at 11:10 AM

pambi on April 29, 2014 at 11:10 AM

joana is a full blown loon of the first order…

OmahaConservative on April 29, 2014 at 11:24 AM

The Pope should sell all the billions of Vatican treasures and give the money to the poor; sell the trillions of dollars of real estate the church owns, globally, and start the priests preaching on street corners, and gather in the fields, like Jesus and the apostles did…if he wants any credibility with his socialist dogma.

————-
HonestLib, do check in. Hopefully you and your family are ok, my friend.

Schadenfreude on April 29, 2014 at 12:20 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=kbJcQYVtZMo

celtic warrior on April 29, 2014 at 11:40 AM

I like that one…

I also like this one by the Capuchins…Makes people pause…even those that aren’t Catholic….

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pxqyNdE3Ndw

workingclass artist on April 29, 2014 at 12:23 PM

HonestLib, do check in. Hopefully you and your family are ok, my friend.

Schadenfreude on April 29, 2014 at 12:20 PM

Has anyone seen HL in any threads today?

OmahaConservative on April 29, 2014 at 1:35 PM

OC, last message from last night

I’m late to the game as usual. Put some peppermint striped shorts on the dude and he would be a young Richard Simmons. I wonder if he puts his clown shoes on before or after he drives his Smart Car?

HonestLib on April 28, 2014 at 9:43 PM

Schadenfreude on April 29, 2014 at 1:39 PM

OC, none for April 29, 2014.

Schadenfreude on April 29, 2014 at 1:41 PM

HonestLib, do check in. Hopefully you and your family are ok, my friend.

Schadenfreude on April 29, 2014 at 12:20 PM

He’s always on first thing ikn the morning. It might just be his electricity is off but that doesn’t always matter these days. He also had a back problem.

crankyoldlady on April 29, 2014 at 1:49 PM

When I say good morning on here HL always answers me.

crankyoldlady on April 29, 2014 at 1:54 PM

While the RCC has constantly berated communism and socialism, they themselves, allegedly trying to help the poor throughout the middle ages, protected the poor from capitalism. They created the concept of the “serf,” the man who couldn’t be kicked off the land he was entitled to farm. But… they also supported the super-wealthy, the aritocrats, who were not so much capitalists as they were THE GOVERNMENT. Who taxed everybody and everything except the Church. The few guilds that existed, and what precious little capitalism there was, was embodied by men like the Medicis in Venice, who practiced “crony capitalism,” aka fascism, to make sure they had no competition. The result was exactly the same as having the government run everything: massive, widespread poverty except for an elite few.

When the protestant reformation broke the Church’s totalitarian grip on Europeans, those communities practicing capitalism THRIVED, and a middle class was created. From then on, there proved to be a direct correlation between freedom and equality of opportunity.

Yes, if the Church has its way again, everyone, except the Church and the State, will be equal–equally poor that is.

RockinRickOwen on April 29, 2014 at 2:38 PM

Pope Francis has spoken out against economic systems that reinforce inequality, saying last year that “there was the promise that once the glass had become full it would overflow and the poor would benefit. But what happens is that when it’s full to the brim, the glass magically grows, and thus nothing ever comes out for the poor.”

And the Pope’s desired system leads to the glasses all being full, but it’s only a shot glass and it’s full of misery. See Venezuela, Zimbabwe or any other Socialist/Marxist/Communist hell hole.

Were I the Pope, I would choose unequal prosperity over shared misery for my flock.

RJL on April 29, 2014 at 5:40 PM

Fight the good fight. The church will survive this current Pontiff. We have had worse. I admire your dedication to the truth of 20 centuries of Christianity. You are running the good race ( St.Paul).
celtic warrior on April 29, 2014 at 9:18 AM

That’s an awfully strange definition of “surviving” when your leadership is corrupted.

Will America “survive” Obama, Reid, and Pelosi?

Cleombrotus on April 30, 2014 at 6:12 AM

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