WaPo writer terribly worried about GOP infighting

posted at 9:31 am on April 27, 2014 by Jazz Shaw

Chris Cillizza at the Washington Post has a lot on his mind these days, and of course the future of the Republican Party is up near the top of the list. But, you might wonder, in the dawn of a mid-term cycle which is shaping up to potentially offer some bright spots for the Grand Old Party, why is he so concerned? Aren’t things going at least passably well at the moment?

Apparently not. No matter how many gains Republicans might see this November, there’s always 2016 to worry about. And what is the GOP’s biggest problem in the next presidential cycle? Is it Hillary? Liz Warren? A perilous demographic shift in the midst of a fight over immigration policy? Don’t be silly. The real problem, of course, is the Tea Party.

What if the tea party decides to walk away from the GOP in 2016? It could happen.

The relationship (or lack thereof) between the mainstream of the Republican party and the tea party has long been pooh-poohed by GOP strategists as standard operating procedure for a party out of the White House. The base and the establishment feud and, in the end, the base falls in line, they argue. But what if the tea party movement represents something new — and less manageable — for the establishment heading into the 2016 presidential race? …

[I]t’s not unreasonable to think that a similar out-in-the-open political brawl is coming for the big prize: The 2016 presidential nomination. The lines are already drawn — albeit somewhat crudely — with Sens. Ted Cruz and Rand Paul on the tea party side and people like Govs. Jeb Bush, Scott Walker and Chris Christie as well as Sen. Marco Rubio representing the establishment side.

Now, someone will win that fight — that’s the good thing about campaigns, someone always wins. But, the broader issue raised by Galen is whether the loser — assuming it is the tea party wing — will simply fold itself into the Republican party or go its own way.

It’s good that Chris is so concerned, and I’m sure you’re all grateful for his contributions to the discussion. But I have to wonder why there’s only one cutting edge of a double bladed sword mentioned in the endless parade of articles on this subject. The default assumption always seems to be that the 2016 Republican primary will eventually boil down to some sort of showdown between the “establishment” candidate and the “grassroots” candidate. Fair enough. We saw something similar in the last go around and there’s no reason to suspect that it won’t happen again. But the second part of the assumption seems to always be that the Tea Party candidate will lose and then – maybe – their supporters in the grassroots will stay home, leading to yet another humiliating defeat for the GOP.

Now, let’s not pretend that there isn’t a significant, and possibly growing strain of Let It Burn (LIB) attitudes among the base. We see plenty of evidence of that right here among the commentariat. (Yes, we actually do read the comments.) It’s a school of thought bred from an increasing and frequently justified sense of frustration over the tactics and strategies of the party leadership. This stands in contrast to the standard mantra of (as Cillizza acknowledges) the enemy of my enemy is my friend. In other words, rather than LIB, deciding that the squishy Republican who is right 75% of the time is still better than the Democrat who will be right 0% of the time.

But what if it went the other way? Let’s say the Tea Party candidate wins the nomination. (Chris lists Ted Cruz and Rand Paul in this role standing against Jeb Bush, Scott Walker, Chris Christie or Marco Rubio.) Is there any concern that the “establishment” portion of the base would simply stay home? Or should we assume that those voters will be far more prone to the Enemy of My Enemy school of thought and show up in the same numbers to support the upstart primary winner? The more I thought about it, the more sense that made. In fact, I’d say that the odds of the Tea Party candidate getting a larger percentage of the vote in the general election are quite high.

But the one thing that Cillizza doesn’t mention is a larger danger that the Tea Party faces. And that is the risk of turning into a big business themselves. If we can take anything away from the 2012 primary and the wave of 2010, it’s that the Tea Party seems to work best when they work on their own at the local level, with messy, disorganized meetings in local halls, boots on the ground knocking on doors, and small donations to individual candidates in each race. When the Tea Party tries to “grow up” and act like the establishment they seek to oust, problems arise. That seems to be demonstrated aptly when we look at how well the Big Tea Party organizations handle their money. (You’ll note from that article that the Tea Party Patriots gave more money in consulting fees to Jenny Beth Martin than they did to Matt Bevin.)

Either way, it’s something to watch once we finish up this mid-term cycle. Cillizza may be on to something here, though perhaps not what he started out trying to assert.


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Concern trolls, concerned that the Establishment might lose control to conservatives and the Democrats might face actual competition.

ConstantineXI on April 27, 2014 at 9:40 AM

Yes, it’s comforting to know that liberal Democrats in the press have our best interests in mind. Thanks Chris!

Jaibones on April 27, 2014 at 9:41 AM

It’s good that Chris is so concerned, and I’m sure you’re all grateful for his contributions to the discussion.

Selling sarcasm by the gallon? =P

It’s a school of thought bred from an increasing and frequently justified sense of frustration over the tactics and strategies of the party leadership.

It’s not just tactics and strategies. It’s end goals and objectives, too. I’m still ticked at them over the repeal of DADT, dropping repeal of Obamacare and switching that out for “fixing” Obamacare, and the zombie amnesty that just won’t die.

Is there any concern that the “establishment” portion of the base would simply stay home? Or should we assume that those voters will be far more prone to the Enemy of My Enemy school of thought and show up in the same numbers to support the upstart primary winner?

And that’s why the GOP should nominate conservatives and not squishy moderates. Either the establishment-types are sincere, in which case candidates do better, or they reveal themselves to be disingenuous sirens, in which case conservatives will have been proven right in wanting nothing to do with them anyway.

If we can take anything away from the 2012 primary and the wave of 2010, it’s that the Tea Party seems to work best when they work on their own at the local level

People do that when they have a cause or a candidate that they believe in. The GOP establishment has absolutely no recognition of what grassroots support is, and instead thinks that they’ll groom a candidate and then command the party voters that they see as compliant minions to demonstrate devotion.

Stoic Patriot on April 27, 2014 at 9:43 AM

… with Sens. Ted Cruz and Rand Paul on the tea party side and people like Govs. Jeb Bush, Scott Walker and Chris Christie as well as Sen. Marco Rubio representing the establishment side.

Rand Paul is on the ESTABLISHMENT side, with his AMNESTY-pushing buddies. The last time I checked, the Tea Party does not support AMNESTY.

Pork-Chop on April 27, 2014 at 9:45 AM

And that’s why the GOP should nominate conservatives and not squishy moderates. Either the establishment-types are sincere, in which case candidates do better, or they reveal themselves to be disingenuous sirens, in which case conservatives will have been proven right in wanting nothing to do with them anyway.

Stoic Patriot on April 27, 2014 at 9:43 AM

We already know what the Establishment does when they lose primaries, they run as Sore Losers (Murkowski), immediately go Democrat (DeDe Scozafava, “Snarlin” Arlen Spector) or support the democrat (Dick Lugar). If ONLY the Establishment were as loyal to the party as conservatives are…

ConstantineXI on April 27, 2014 at 9:47 AM

What if the tea party decides to walk away from the GOP in 2016? It could happen

…well…the leadership is talking about amnesty “reform” in 2014…so why are you talking about walking away 2 years later?…it’s not a 2 year walk!

KOOLAID2 on April 27, 2014 at 9:49 AM

Rand Paul is on the ESTABLISHMENT side, with his AMNESTY-pushing buddies. The last time I checked, the Tea Party does not support AMNESTY.

Pork-Chop on April 27, 2014 at 9:45 AM

Yep, I am a Kentuckian and I’ve all but crossed off Rand Paul.

The list of tolerable candidates is indeed getting short… I’m starting to think Ted Cruz or Sarah Palin are the only ones I could support!

ConstantineXI on April 27, 2014 at 9:50 AM

…well…the leadership is talking about amnesty “reform” in 2014…so why are you talking about walking away 2 years later?…it’s not a 2 year walk!

KOOLAID2 on April 27, 2014 at 9:49 AM

Exactly. They do that and the GOP might be dead THIS YEAR. I certainly won’t be voting for any of them in November, not even for my own Congressman if HE votes amnesty!

They could still lose the House, much less fail to take the Senate, and the only way to do that is pass amnesty.

It is proof positive of how STUPID our leadership is that they are even CONSIDERING immigration amnesty WITH THE LAWLESS OBAMA AS PRESIDENT. It doesn’t matter WHAT border enforcement concessions they get, OBAMA WILL NOT ENFORCE IT!

ConstantineXI on April 27, 2014 at 9:53 AM

If we can take anything away from the 2012 primary and the wave of 2010, it’s that the Tea Party seems to work best when they work on their own at the local level, with messy, disorganized meetings in local halls, boots on the ground knocking on doors, and small donations to individual candidates in each race.

It’s not just the Tea Party, everything works best at the local level. The Founding Fathers were wise enough, for the most part, to give the federal government only the responsibilities that needed to be there to work. We have strayed far from that vision.

And I don’t see myself as a LIB type. Neither do I see the point anymore of voting for RINOs (literally, in name only). If the consequence of that is burning then it was going to burn regardless. I’ll likely be voting libertarian, even though I disagree with them some, at least they’re usually not lefties. Unless someone like Cruz gets the nod, and the likelihood of that is vanishingly small.

Fenris on April 27, 2014 at 10:04 AM

yeah, the “establishment” ones would surely back a TP candidate.
they would gladly vote for the people they call terrorists and hobbitts.
people like htis?
http://www.spokesman.com/stories/2014/apr/25/mcmorris-rodgers-says-aca-likely-to-stay/

With the news this week that more than 600,000 Washington residents have acquired new health care plans through the state exchange, U.S. Rep. Cathy McMorris Rodgers said it’s unlikely the Affordable Care Act will be repealed.

“We need to look at reforming the exchanges,” the Eastern Washington Republican said Thursday.

dmacleo on April 27, 2014 at 10:05 AM

It is proof positive of how STUPID our leadership is that they are even CONSIDERING immigration amnesty…

ConstantineXI on April 27, 2014 at 9:53 AM

They’ll probably wise up and wait until after the election. For some definitions of the word ‘wise’.

Fenris on April 27, 2014 at 10:05 AM

Just read the Drudge headline. Hmmm Hmmm Hmmmm

bazil9 on April 27, 2014 at 10:07 AM

What is the alternative to amnesty? Status quo? Deportation? How do you organize and deport 12+ million people? Bus holds 50, plane holds 250-300. Where do we send them? Not trolling, just asking.

My take is, the status quo is unacceptable. Close the border. For those who are here- if you are working and a productive member of society, be a legal immigrant. Is it fair to those who came legally? No. But life isn’t fair, sometimes the bad guy wins. Some things need to be done for logistical and practical purposes.

If you are unemployed, or a criminal- buh bye.

tdarrington on April 27, 2014 at 10:09 AM

Exactly. They do that and the GOP might be dead THIS YEAR. I certainly won’t be voting for any of them in November, not even for my own Congressman if HE votes amnesty!

ConstantineXI on April 27, 2014 at 9:53 AM

I’ve told my congressman that if a GOP controlled House passes any kind of amnesty, I won’t vote for him even if he votes no. It passes, they all go down, as will this country.

TxAnn56 on April 27, 2014 at 10:09 AM

Hmmm. Picture is of two Proboscidea, instead of at least one Perissodactyla.

That’s a little nit-picky, I guess.

Axe on April 27, 2014 at 10:09 AM

OK lets just lay it all out. Big headline on Drudge has a GOP leader saying that Marxist Care is here to stay and immigration reform will pass by August. That should be all anyone needs to know that politics isn’t fixing the country. It just isn’t going to happen. And the window on the last resort option will soon close also.

bgibbs1000 on April 27, 2014 at 10:13 AM

The gop Leadership is traitorous, and nothing more than whores for the Cheap Mexican Labor Chamber of Commerce.

And Rand Paul………turned out to be just a player with the establishment.

Mammy and I want somebody that’s going to go in and DRIVE OUT THE PROGRESSIVES that control the republican Party not someone that’s going to kiss their —— .

PappyD61 on April 27, 2014 at 10:13 AM

What is the alternative to amnesty? Status quo? Deportation? How do you organize and deport 12+ million people? Bus holds 50, plane holds 250-300. Where do we send them? Not trolling, just asking.

tdarrington on April 27, 2014 at 10:09 AM

Gee, how about their country of origin before they broke the law? It’s called self deportation. Enforce the laws, take away the magnets, penalize employers. It’s pretty simple. But alas, Boehner and co. have to obey their masters, the Chamber of Commerce, who have funneled millions into Boehner’s pockets and who have an insatiable thirst for cheap labor.

TxAnn56 on April 27, 2014 at 10:14 AM

Is there any concern that the “establishment” portion of the base would simply stay home? Or should we assume that those voters will be far more prone to the Enemy of My Enemy school of thought and show up in the same numbers to support the upstart primary winner? The more I thought about it, the more sense that made. In fact, I’d say that the odds of the Tea Party candidate getting a larger percentage of the vote in the general election are quite high.

What if McStain and Miz Lindsey decide to appear and endorse Hillary! at the Dem convention?

I’d say that is likely, given their history of reacharounds with the Dems (flirting with Lurch Kerry for the 2004 VP slot, wanting Lieberman for the 2008 running mate but settling for a convention speech from him).

Toocon on April 27, 2014 at 10:16 AM

This author should be more concerned about the internal struggles at the WAPO between the Democrat lip-synch cheerleaders like David Ingatius and E. J. Dionne, and the clear-thinking independents like…
ummm…

Okay maybe there’s no problem.

Ray Van Dune on April 27, 2014 at 10:16 AM

Just read the Drudge headline. Hmmm Hmmm Hmmmm

bazil9 on April 27, 2014 at 10:07 AM

Ya, Drudge links to this:

“I think we have figured out a way to secure, to have border and interior security, holding the administration accountable for the enforcement … forcing the administration to enforce the law whether they want to or not. And I think we figured out a way to deal with the folks that are here in a way that is fair — fair, by the way, to those in the legal system … who are doing everything legally, and also deals with the folks that are here in a way that is fair and reasonable. And adheres, strictly adheres, to the rule of law.

Which in DCSpeak means it’s thousands of pages of legalese, will be passed overnight before anybody can read it, the border enforcement part will be found after the fact to be full of loopholes, Obama would ignore enforcement even if it wasn’t loopholey, and it will seem fair and reasonable to the illegals and Gimmecrats.

Fenris on April 27, 2014 at 10:17 AM

If a conservative wins the nomination I would not be surprised to see the establishment campaign against him or her and support the Democrat. They’ve shown themselves to be vicious and vindictive that way.

crankyoldlady on April 27, 2014 at 10:20 AM

Fenris on April 27, 2014 at 10:17 AM

Yes, pretty much.

bazil9 on April 27, 2014 at 10:20 AM

Just read the Drudge headline. Hmmm Hmmm Hmmmm

bazil9 on April 27, 2014 at 10:07 AM

Yep. “REPUBLICAN LEADER: OBAMACARE HERE TO STAY; IMMIGRATION BY AUGUST”.

We’re running out of reasons to vote GOP. If there aren’t any conservatives winning primaries, then you might as well sit home and prepare for life in “The Hunger Games.”

Aitch748 on April 27, 2014 at 10:23 AM

The last statistic I read on amnesty was 64% of
all voters are against it .
Did I miss something ? Am I dead wrong ?

Lucano on April 27, 2014 at 10:24 AM

We already know what the Establishment does when they lose primaries, they run as Sore Losers (Murkowski), immediately go Democrat (DeDe Scozafava, “Snarlin” Arlen Spector) or support the democrat (Dick Lugar).

This. Are there any examples of this NOT happening?

ncjetsfan on April 27, 2014 at 10:24 AM

How do you organize and deport 12+ million people? Bus holds 50, plane holds 250-300. Where do we send them? Not trolling, just asking.

tdarrington on April 27, 2014 at 10:09 AM

Use the same 12+ million capacity bus they used to ride into the country.

O wait, that doesn’t exist.

Thank God they can’t get into the country, then. In Mexico City, right now, people are standing around saying things like, “We’d love to go to the United States, but we can’t possible organize a journey for 60+ million people. ‘A bus holds 50, plane holds 250-300.’”

O wait, they’re here.

This is a real head scratcher. We need to genetically engineer someone super-smart to figure this out for us. A bus holds 50, plane holds 250-300. The math just doesn’t add up.

. . . Aliens? They will be looking back at us saying, “Humans at that time didn’t have the technology”?

Axe on April 27, 2014 at 10:24 AM

I don’t know how much louder we have to shout. IF YOU PANDER TO THE DEMS VICTIM GROUPS WE WILL NOT VOTE FOR YOU.

crankyoldlady on April 27, 2014 at 10:25 AM

How do you organize and deport 12+ million people? Bus holds 50, plane holds 250-300. Where do we send them? Not trolling, just asking.

tdarrington on April 27, 2014 at 10:09 AM

one plane at a time, if their host country refuses landing permits then pay for a parachute and drop them.

dmacleo on April 27, 2014 at 10:31 AM

We’re running out of reasons to vote GOP.

Aitch748 on April 27, 2014 at 10:23 AM

Yep!

bazil9 on April 27, 2014 at 10:32 AM

Howdy all……;)
I’ll say this much, if its Bush or Christie, I’m done !!!! The blog will close and I shall never speak of politics again. D.O.N, done……..

angrymike on April 27, 2014 at 10:32 AM

The problem is not that the Tea Party bolts after the Establishment candidate wins the GOP Primary.

The issue has ALWAYS been that the GOP Establishment will not only bolt if a conservative/libertarian wins the GOP Primary, but that they will actively back Hillary.

KirknBurker on April 27, 2014 at 10:33 AM

tdarrington on April 27, 2014 at 10:09 AM
You don’t have to deport 12 m illegals . If you have a strong e-verify program with stiff penalties ,
stop handing out benefits and seal the border many will leave . Same with the overstay visa people .
It’s called attrition .

Lucano on April 27, 2014 at 10:33 AM

People, let it burn. Then we link up and sprout out of the ashes.

KirknBurker on April 27, 2014 at 10:34 AM

How do you organize and deport 12+ million people? Bus holds 50, plane holds 250-300. Where do we send them? Not trolling, just asking.

tdarrington on April 27, 2014 at 10:09 AM

Lucano just made my point. THIS isn’t effing rocket science. So tired of the utter stupidity.

CW on April 27, 2014 at 10:34 AM


…well…the leadership is talking about amnesty “reform” in 2014…so why are you talking about walking away 2 years later?…it’s not a 2 year walk!

This is the headline on drudge as I type: REPUBLICAN LEADER: (a) OBAMACARE HERE TO STAY; (b) IMMIGRATION BY AUGUST.

I will have walked away before November if either (a) or (b) occur. I have no confidence in the GOP establishment. I want a new party.

casuist on April 27, 2014 at 10:36 AM

Seriously tdarrington -I am really just exhausted with this country and your type. The inability for some to logically figure this out after so many years just shows how unintelligent (or lazy)some people are and just how bad the schools have performed.

CW on April 27, 2014 at 10:37 AM

Aitch748 on April 27, 2014 at 10:23 AM

You get it.

Short of open conflict, I just don’t see this country coming back.

The slide will continue in the absence of any quick or sudden economic collapse.

KirknBurker on April 27, 2014 at 10:38 AM

I’ll say this much. I’m done with voting against Dem candidates. I will vote for candidates who make a plausible argument that they can and will deliver something for me, for my kids, and for the future of the country.

That means no more blindly punching the R ticket. The party’s over.

ElectricPhase on April 27, 2014 at 10:39 AM


We’re running out of reasons to vote GOP. If there aren’t any conservatives winning primaries, then you might as well sit home and prepare for life in “The Hunger Games.”

Precisely. Establishment believes November will return victory in any case because reasons, so time is right to foist amnesty on us at no political cost to themselves.

The opposite is the case. Now is the time to walk away as Democrats run the table in November.

Let it burn, yo. Let. It. Burn.

casuist on April 27, 2014 at 10:40 AM

Here in Indiana, the Lugar faction (aka the establishment) worked mightily to defeat Richard Mourdock and elect the Democrat candidate to the Senate in 2012. Granted, Mourdock put his foot in his mouth two weeks before the election, but he could still have won (and did in large parts of the state) if the establishment had rallied behind him. It would not surprise me at all to see a similar thing happen on the national level if a true conservative (aka TEA Party) candidate should get the nomination.

loveyouall on April 27, 2014 at 10:41 AM

We’re running out of reasons to vote GOP. If there aren’t any conservatives winning primaries, then you might as well sit home and prepare for life in “The Hunger Games.”

Aitch748 on April 27, 2014 at 10:23 AM

Yup

We already know what the Establishment does when they lose primaries, they run as Sore Losers (Murkowski), immediately go Democrat (DeDe Scozafava, “Snarlin” Arlen Spector) or support the democrat (Dick Lugar).

This. Are there any examples of this NOT happening?

ncjetsfan on April 27, 2014 at 10:24 AM

…and nope.

Is it too early to start drinking? #Depressing

Fallon on April 27, 2014 at 10:42 AM

I’ll say this much. I’m done with voting against Dem candidates. I will vote for candidates who make a plausible argument that they can and will deliver something for me, for my kids, and for the future of the country.

Yea, verily, and amen.

casuist on April 27, 2014 at 10:42 AM

We need a new political party that is focused solely on the federal level:

* Presidency
* U.S. Senate
* U.S. House
* Supreme Court as much as the first three choose/ratify.

If you cannot cut the link between the federal and state/local level, thereby freeing up people to belong to two parties that are free to maneuver and campaign without bringing the other down, we won’t be able to pull it off and stop the Progs.

You have to understand that the ‘one size fits all’ approach to politics will not work either.

We need a new party that is a National level party only that fights to reduce the power of the central government without having to be dragged down by local issues that it is not involved with.

KirknBurker on April 27, 2014 at 10:43 AM

Recall-

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell vowed any tea party candidates challenging establishment Republicans in the 2014 midterm elections would not just fail — but fail miserably.
I think we are going to crush them everywhere,” he said, The New York Times reported, “I don’t think they are going to have a single nominee anywhere in the country.”

bazil9 on April 27, 2014 at 10:44 AM

The real problem, of course, is the Tea Party.

AKA, in private Dems circles, as counterrevolutionaries.

The lefties want to split the GOP neo-socialists from the counterrevolutionaries.

No need to bother. The neo-socialist wing of the GOP will do that for them.

farsighted on April 27, 2014 at 10:45 AM

Whether the TP bolts or not will in large part depend on how the nominee is chosen. If the GOP establishment forces a RINO nominee like Jeb or Christie on the rank and file/TP voters, they’ll sit out the election in November.

OTOH, if they lose fair and square they are more likely to stick around. Another important factor will be whether the nominee courts or shuns the TP voters.

Walker/Cruz would be a good combo.

myiq2xu on April 27, 2014 at 10:45 AM

Axe on April 27, 2014 at 10:24 AM

Math is hard. 12 million/50 per bus = a crap ton of busses. Who pays for it?

That’s right, attrition.

Lucano on April 27, 2014 at 10:33 AM

They’ll just walk home.

Closing the border and e-verify is fine. I agree with that. But for those who are here and productive, punishment by forced mass migration of unemployed, impoverished people for “not doing it the right way” is not the right way to go about it.

tdarrington on April 27, 2014 at 10:47 AM

We’re running out of reasons to vote GOP.

Aitch748 on April 27, 2014 at 10:23 AM

Yep!

bazil9 on April 27, 2014 at 10:32 AM

dittos

CoffeeLover on April 27, 2014 at 10:47 AM

the squishy Republican who is right 75%

I do not think there is such an animal.

Not when rhetoric is ignored and only actions considered.

Talking a good game 75% of the time does not count when they do not walk the walk.

farsighted on April 27, 2014 at 10:49 AM

Oh, plug of the morning. Re-read (or read for the first time) A Choice Not an Echo by Phyllis Schlafly.

The Republican Party has been undercutting Conservatives since at least 1936. (Go back farther and Teddy R’s Bull Moose Party tantrum.)

…Roosevelt made the White House the center of news every day, providing interviews and photo opportunities. After noticing the White House reporters huddled outside in the rain one day, he gave them their own room inside, effectively inventing the presidential press briefing. The grateful press, with unprecedented access to the White House, rewarded Roosevelt with ample coverage.

Sick of all of them.

Fallon on April 27, 2014 at 10:51 AM

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell vowed any tea party candidates challenging establishment Republicans in the 2014 midterm elections would not just fail — but fail miserably. “I think we are going to crush them everywhere,” he said, The New York Times reported, “I don’t think they are going to have a single nominee anywhere in the country.”

Laws of physics in the form of secular-global economic collapse (already in progress, yo) or world-historic conflict (Ukraine stand-off? South China sea? Fall of the petrodollar hence USD no longer global reserve currency?) could return a verdict on the madness in Washington before a political movement could organize to upset McConnell’s comfy chair.

It’s 2014. It was 1914 that put an end to the 19th century (WWI, yo), and 1814 that put an end to the 17th. Maybe we’re due for a world-changer. Or maybe not. At this point whatever. Washington is finished.

casuist on April 27, 2014 at 10:53 AM

Math is hard. 12 million/50 per bus = a crap ton of busses.

tdarrington on April 27, 2014 at 10:47 AM

I can’t believe you just repeated that indefensible stupidity.

Axe on April 27, 2014 at 10:54 AM

tdarrington on April 27, 2014 at 10:47 AM

Fine , don’t enforce the law . They didn’t do it the wrong way , the did it illegally .
What about unemployed and impoverished US citizens ?

Lucano on April 27, 2014 at 10:56 AM

I can’t believe you just repeated that indefensible stupidity.

Tdarrington just failed the Turing Test, yo. But take the Tdarrington script seriously for a moment. Lots of buses means stimulus! Jobs for American workers even though most U.S. buses are manufactured in Canada. But jobs for NORTH American workers, right yo? Reframe the problem. Call it a jobs program.

casuist on April 27, 2014 at 10:58 AM

I see Scott Walker is listed in the “establishment” group but I’d say he leans more to the Tea Party side and at a minimum will have an ability to pull support from both sides. Taking on Public Sector Unions, slashing state government spending, etc. will all play well with the Tea Party and the GOP establishment.

cosmoscon on April 27, 2014 at 11:00 AM

I can’t believe you just repeated that indefensible stupidity.

Axe on April 27, 2014 at 10:54 AM

Don’t you just love it when people who call themselves conservatives or Republicans repeat left-wing straw men on HA.

farsighted on April 27, 2014 at 11:00 AM

What about unemployed and impoverished US citizens ?

Lucano on April 27, 2014 at 10:56 AM

The govt does more to impoverish its citizens than illegal immigrants do.

tdarrington on April 27, 2014 at 11:00 AM

Math is hard. 12 million/50 per bus = a crap ton of busses.

tdarrington on April 27, 2014 at 10:47 AM

So what, big effing deal. We get a crap ton of buses or whatever it takes and we send them back to where they came from. No one said it would be easy but it’s not impossible although the Marxists running our country want you to think it is.

bgibbs1000 on April 27, 2014 at 11:01 AM

My take is, the status quo is unacceptable. Close the border. For those who are here- if you are working and a productive member of society, be a legal immigrant.

Yes. Until the will is found to enforce – enFORCE – the border everything else is political vaudeville. The influx must be stopped cold; those who are here and working must get into the citizenship line and be assimilated; those who are not self-supporting or who are caught in criminal activity must be deported. It will take years to undo the destruction wrought by decades of neglect, but it must be done.
We spent over ten years “democratizing” Iraq. Surely Americanizing America is also a worthy endeavor.

jbspry on April 27, 2014 at 11:01 AM

tdarrington on April 27, 2014 at 10:47 AM

then shoot them. I no longer care.

dmacleo on April 27, 2014 at 11:01 AM

Don’t you just love it when people who call themselves conservatives or Republicans repeat left-wing straw men on HA.

Paranoid much, bro?

(I know I am.)

casuist on April 27, 2014 at 11:02 AM

Howdy all……;)
I’ll say this much, if its Bush or Christie, I’m done !!!! The blog will close and I shall never speak of politics again. D.O.N, done……..

angrymike on April 27, 2014 at 10:32 AM

…Hi prodigal son!…good to see you!

KOOLAID2 on April 27, 2014 at 11:05 AM

The govt does more to impoverish its citizens than illegal immigrants do.

Contradiction much, bro? Yet you somehow trust a central state with an interest in developing dependency as the basis of its power with the administration of a broad amnesty? You tow a progressive line until called on it. Then you try to sound conservative. The dissonance is jarring.

casuist on April 27, 2014 at 11:06 AM

I’m tired of hearing talk of “fixing” immigration. We already have laws that work. Enforce them and the wandering illegals will fade back into their Mexican woodwork.

crankyoldlady on April 27, 2014 at 11:10 AM

Settle down Beavis. I said nothing about central state dependency. Re read what I said about workers staying, criminals and unemployed leaving. Sheesh. You guys go apoplectic and forget how to read.

Btw I am an unapologetic libertarian.

tdarrington on April 27, 2014 at 11:11 AM

I don’t see the issue of fighting yet, when there is no one to fight over.

The people who are going on the list of possibilities, are the ones who we need to look at. Speculating isn’t going to get anyone, anywhere.

upinak on April 27, 2014 at 11:14 AM

It’s interesting that they ignore the “civil war” going on in the Democrat party between the unions and the environmental wackos. I guess they are pretty sure that neither will stray when it comes to actually pulling the lever. Didn’t Reagan get a lot of the union rank and file vote?

Cindy Munford on April 27, 2014 at 11:16 AM

KOOLAID2…….
;)

angrymike on April 27, 2014 at 11:16 AM

The govt does more to impoverish its citizens than illegal immigrants do.

The US government is more dangerous to Americans than the Russian government is.

antisense on April 27, 2014 at 11:17 AM

You’ll note from that article that the Tea Party Patriots gave more money in consulting fees to Jenny Beth Martin than they did to Matt Bevin.

Well, maybe they were afraid he was going to blow it all on losers at cockfights…

JohnGalt23 on April 27, 2014 at 11:18 AM

It’s interesting that they ignore the “civil war” going on in the Democrat party between the unions and the environmental wackos.
Cindy Munford on April 27, 2014 at 11:16 AM

You forgot the wackos working for/in the government, pushing their agendas.

upinak on April 27, 2014 at 11:18 AM

The solution is to annex Mexico, take the oil, natural resources, and tourism dollars.

antisense on April 27, 2014 at 11:18 AM

I want the GOP to stand firm on one point regarding illegal immigration… No ‘path to citizenship’ under any conditions. Whatever else is done no one who enters this country illegally should ever be granted citizenship.

The reason for this seems almost self-evident to me.

If the GOP does not do that I will likely abandon the GOP.

farsighted on April 27, 2014 at 11:19 AM


Re read what I said about workers staying, criminals and unemployed leaving.

Yes, distinctions–criminal records, employment status–ruled on by a central state with an interest in developing dependency as the basis of its power with the administration of a broad amnesty.

Every attempt to sort among applicants for amnesty based on criminal records, employment or even employability, or whether an applicant can speak English, will be ruled in favor of the applicant by courts or bureaucratic discretion as a rights issue.


Btw I am an unapologetic libertarian.

Stop. You’re embarrassing the real libertarians, those of who actually oppose the expansion of the central state on principle.

casuist on April 27, 2014 at 11:19 AM

If the GOP does not do that I will likely abandon the GOP.

farsighted on April 27, 2014 at 11:19 AM

Might wanna jump ship now.

upinak on April 27, 2014 at 11:21 AM

If someone running for federal office says to you, “I can’t possibly enforce the borders of this country, police the interior, or otherwise secure the territorial sovereignty of the United States; in other words, I can’t actually do the job that I want you to hire me to do” — don’t hire them.

If they are already hired — fire them.

If someone makes an argument that starts with the false assertion that the United States, unique in the history of the world, is somehow mystically cursed — incapable of enforcing its borders, policing its interior, and otherwise securing its territorial sovereignty — dismiss the rest of their argument, because they don’t have one. Usually, that person doesn’t want the United States to secure itself as a nation-state. They declare the idea that it might absurd and then start generating alternatives. If you want to know what they do want, you won’t have to wait long, since that’s always next up.

1. We can’t possibly do that; 2. But we can do this.

But the bunk starts at 1. The United States damn well can secure its border, police its interior, and otherwise secure its territorial sovereignty.

Axe on April 27, 2014 at 11:25 AM

Yes, we actually do read the comments.

*gulp*

justltl on April 27, 2014 at 11:27 AM

Might wanna jump ship now.

upinak on April 27, 2014 at 11:21 AM

And then there is the talk about GOP cooperation in ‘fixing’ Obamacare.

Reposting from elsewhere…

Once the Dems manage to peal off a Republican or two, or three, to help ‘fix’ Obamacare they will start calling it a ‘bipartisan’ effort.

When that happens all of the Dems grumbling about Obamacare hurting them at the polls will return to the fold.

Any politician whos call themself a Republican and who supports ‘fixing’ Obamacare should be banned from the party on principal. That will never happen, of course.

If the GOP does not stand firmly in opposition to Obamcare it can no longer even pretend to be the party of small government. And that is about all it does now it, it tries to pretend.

farsighted on April 27, 2014 at 11:27 AM

upinak on April 27, 2014 at 11:18 AM

I am a little surprised that that isn’t getting as much push back as the NSA spying. I would be raising just as much he!! if it was a Republican administration using government agencies in this manner. And someone needs to explain how a conservative organization loses it tax exempt status while Media Matters keeps theirs when David Brock is the keynote at a Democrat fundraiser.

Cindy Munford on April 27, 2014 at 11:29 AM

Ahhhh casuist, holder of the libertarian standard. All others are LINOs. You sound more like an anarchist. You need some central government. You seem to advocate no central govt. we can’t survive as a collection of independent states.

tdarrington on April 27, 2014 at 11:31 AM

Cindy Munford on April 27, 2014 at 11:29 AM

Distractions. It happens to all of us.. SQUIRREL… and we just go along with it.

The IRS pulling a status, makes me wonder who was complaining to begin with?

upinak on April 27, 2014 at 11:34 AM

Cindy
We all know why, this is the most corrupt administration ever, its a fine time to be a prog, till reality hits…….

angrymike on April 27, 2014 at 11:34 AM

The Democrats felt the same way 160 years ago when the original Whigs were being harassed by those Tea Partying Republicans.

formwiz on April 27, 2014 at 11:34 AM

I’m not sure why the author cited or Jazz are that concerned. It’s not like the elite Republican moderates are pushing amnesty or anything… right?

Oh snap… maybe they DO have something to worry about.

With the Republican leadership STUCK ON STUPID, all it would take is a charismatic conservative leader to step up and propose a third party. I would switch in a heartbeat… and a lot of people I know would too. The moderates need us a lot more than we need them.

dominigan on April 27, 2014 at 11:35 AM

Has Weasel Boehner switched parties yet?

The photos and videos they have of that Quisling must be indictment grade the way he jumps through hoops for the enemy.

viking01 on April 27, 2014 at 11:39 AM


You need some central government. You seem to advocate no central govt. we can’t survive as a collection of independent states.

Thank you, you who would pretend to be a “libertarian” for some reason, for generously conceding the point that support for amnesty is support for the expansion of a central state with an interest in developing dependency as the basis of its power with the administration of the broad amnesty that you support.

Apparently you’re a “libertarian” in the same sense that Bill Maher is a “libertarian,” or was a libertarian. I don’t know what he calls himself now.

casuist on April 27, 2014 at 11:39 AM

OT/

angrymike on April 27, 2014 at 11:34 AM

Damn. :) This “Hotties with Heat” thing on your site has broken my stride. And nice to see you around.

/OT

Axe on April 27, 2014 at 11:40 AM

Axe on April 27, 2014 at 11:25 AM

When they start spouting what they can and can’t do……I think back to 9/11/2001 and remember how quickly they had the names and movements of the murderers, and their immigration status. So I can either join the truthers or they can admit that they could have a much tighter control on who is here and where they are, the government needs to make the call.

Cindy Munford on April 27, 2014 at 11:42 AM

Ya know, there is a reason why only Republican presidents (except for one Democrat) were elected from 1860-1908. It’s high time to ditch the socialist wing of the Republican party and get back to our roots.

It’s high time the American people had a REAL choice, rather than choosing from Socialism and Socialism Lite. Gad, but I so hate holding my nose when I pull the lever in the voting booth…

Newtie and the Beauty on April 27, 2014 at 11:42 AM

Would one of the bloggers on HA like to take a stab at defining what exactly the GOP brand would stand for if any elected GOP politician supports a ‘path to citizenship’ for ‘illegal immigrants’, or supports helping the Dems ‘fix’ Obamacare?

Seems to me it would no longer stand for much of anything. It would basically be a ‘lite’ version of the Dem Party, for those who don’t want go down that path too fast.

farsighted on April 27, 2014 at 11:43 AM

upinak on April 27, 2014 at 11:34 AM

Apparently a Clinton or a Clinton lover.

angrymike on April 27, 2014 at 11:34 AM

There are a lot of people suffering while the slowest learners in the class make no attempt to buy a clue. They have theirs, screw the rest of the nation.

Cindy Munford on April 27, 2014 at 11:44 AM

Apparently a Clinton or a Clinton lover.

Rabid liberal.

upinak on April 27, 2014 at 11:46 AM

I don’t know what he calls himself now.

casuist on April 27, 2014 at 11:39 AM

A jackass. But then who gets decide on the purity of any ideology?

Cindy Munford on April 27, 2014 at 11:47 AM

What is the alternative to amnesty? Status quo? Deportation? How do you organize and deport 12+ million people? Bus holds 50, plane holds 250-300. Where do we send them? Not trolling, just asking.

tdarrington on April 27, 2014 at 10:09 AM

Some problems are easy to solve. How about a $10,000 fine and six-months in jail for every illegal employee that an employer hires? That would motivate employers to dump their illegals.

Special Forces Grunt on April 27, 2014 at 11:48 AM

What difference, at this point, does it make?

It’s far too late to save this country from illegals, and any “solution” offered here would be met with resistance from:
1) the 12+ million already here, and their ever-growing offspring.
2) the umpteen millions of immigration attorneys, La Raza, civil rights groups (federal, state, and local) Univision, ACLU, etc.
3) the millions in the education system, media and democrat, left wing, liberal enclaves, not to mention most of the GOP-E.
We are way outnumbered
Even attempting to close the border and start enforcing the laws that have been broken for 50 years will bring on cries of “Unfair!” before anything would be done.
Whatever could have been done to stop this should have been done a long, long time ago. Now we have a president who threatens to grant amnesty with his pen and his phone. And he will at the right time to ensure that the 2014 mid-terms turn out the way he wants.

Then everyone will say he’s a miracle worker. Pulled it out when there was no chance. GOP left holding the bag (again), and vowing to fight another day.

leftamark on April 27, 2014 at 11:48 AM


Seems to me it would no longer stand for much of anything. It would basically be a ‘lite’ version of the Dem Party, for those who don’t want go down that path too fast

Confident about November. Confident of efforts to suppress Tea Party primary activity, the establishment figures reassert themselves. Media and commentators applause. And we are left with no good choices.

casuist on April 27, 2014 at 11:49 AM

farsighted on April 27, 2014 at 11:43 AM

It would appear to be money. But like the funds appropriated for border security, it will be one of the first things waived in the name of savings.

Cindy Munford on April 27, 2014 at 11:49 AM

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