Video: Get ready for measles deaths as cases “surge”

posted at 10:01 am on April 25, 2014 by Ed Morrissey

Remember when we all but eradicated measles in the US, along with the 500 or so deaths it caused each year among children? Good times, good times. The rapidly increasing number of infections so far has not caused any fatalities, but those will be inevitable — especially since the medical profession has become so unfamiliar in handling patients infected with the disease:

Since 2000, the highly contagious disease has been considered eliminated in the United States, aside from occasional small outbreaks sparked by overseas travelers. For most of the last decade, the nation was seeing only about 60 cases a year.

But since 2010, the average has been nearly 160.

“This increase in cases may be a `new normal,’ unfortunately,” said Dr. William Schaffner, an infectious disease expert at Vanderbilt University in Nashville.

Contributing to the problem: Decades of measles vaccination campaigns have been so successful that many doctors have never seen a case, don’t realize how contagious it is, and may not take necessary steps to stop it from spreading.

Among the 58 cases reported from California, at least 11 were infected in doctor’s offices, hospitals or other health-care settings, according to a report released Thursday by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. New York City health officials say two of their 26 cases were infected in medical facilities. …

There has been no measles deaths reported in the U.S. since 2003. “But the way we’re going, we feel it (another) is inevitable,” Schuchat said.

Medical-facility retransmission, however, is a secondary problem. The primary issue in the US for the resurgence of measles is a lack of vaccination, and measles isn’t the only disease making a comeback:

In the past 20 years, a concerted public health campaign, especially among lower-income families, has made measles outbreaks rare. The disease has been considered eradicated since 2000. But today, the number of unvaccinated children has begun to become a problem, Schuchat said. Some people are choosing not to have their children immunized for personal reasons and others are unaware of, or unable to get, vaccinations, before they arrive in the U.S. She said the CDC is also seeing growth in the disease pertussis, also known as whooping cough.

Before vaccinations were available, about 500,000 people were infected with measles annually in the U.S., a number that fell to about 60 after the disease was all but eliminated in 2000. Since 2010, it has increased to an average of 155 cases per year. …

The proportion of vaccinated children varies by state, depending on the toughness of their immunization laws, Sammons said. Nationally the measles, mumps, rubella vaccination rate is over 90 percent, but in 15 states it is below that standard, she wrote. New York magazine reported last month on schools in California and New York with low immunization rates among students, in part because parents are choosing not to vaccinate them.

Ohio is also seeing a rapid increase in measles and mumps:

The CDC takes a positive approach in its advice to parents urging vaccinations on time and on schedule. Parents frightened off by anti-vaccination advocates like Jenny McCarthy should review actual research by the CDC, released last year, showing no connection between vaccinations and autism diagnoses:

A new study published in the Journal of Pediatrics Friday may put them at ease. Researchers found no association between autism and the number of vaccines a child gets in one day or during the first two years of the current vaccine schedule.

The research was led by Dr. Frank DeStefano, director of the Immunization Safety Office at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Together with two colleagues, DeStefano and his team collected data on 256 children with autism spectrum disorder (ASD) and 752 children who did not have autism. The children were all born between 1994 and 1999 and were all continuously enrolled in one of three managed-care organizations through their second birthday.

The researchers not only counted how many vaccines a child was given, they also counted how many antigens within the vaccines children were exposed to over three different time periods: birth to 3 months, birth to 7 months and during the first two years. They also calculated the maximum number of antigens a child would receive over the course of a single day.

An antigen is an immune-stimulating protein found in a vaccine that prompts the body’s immune system to recognize and destroy substances that contain them, according to the NIH.

Some vaccines, like Hepatitis B, only contain one antigen for this one virus. However, at the time these children were vaccinated, the typhoid vaccine had 3,000 antigens per dose and the measles, mumps, rubella (MMR) vaccine had 24.

“When we compared those roughly 250 children with ASD and the roughly 750 children who did not have ASD, we found their antigen exposure, however measured, were the same,” said DeStefano. “There was no association between antigenic exposure and the development of autism.”

The researchers also found no association between antigenic exposure and ASD.

The return of these childhood diseases should be a national embarrassment, and any preventable deaths or damage done cause for shame.


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Comment pages: 1 2 3

Since as you said, High schools are not giant bubbles and [agreed] neither are countries.

Nevsky on April 25, 2014 at 2:38 PM

No, but (except for the border to our south *cough*) America is fairly well geographically isolated. So, we tend to be safer from things like pandemics than folks in EurAsia/Africa. Otherwise, point made.

GWB on April 25, 2014 at 2:42 PM

Thank You, Jenny McCarthy.

Another Drew on April 25, 2014 at 2:43 PM

Vaccine driven [at least all by itself] containment of measles is a myth. Here is a chart showing infant measles mortality rate through the last century in UK.

That is not to say that the vaccine did not have some positive effect, but to attribute all to it is dishonest.

As mentioned before there are other factors. There are no vaccines against AIDS. Where is it more prevalent? US or Africa? As soon as one considers an obvious answer it become apparent that there are significant factors involved beyond vaccination.

Nevsky on April 25, 2014 at 2:32 PM

What about diptheria, cholera, polio, all the others?? My great aunt died of diptheria less than 100 years ago.

Missy on April 25, 2014 at 2:43 PM

Nevsky

You do know that your article that you link to is paid for by ANTI-VAXXERS…How can we trust that source? Also, in the medical community there are journals that are considered credible and a lot that are considered circular journals (because that go into the circular garbage bin). If this had been peer-reviewed and published in something like the journal Neurology…it would have had more weight than “Translational Neurodegeneration”. Every single researcher is biased against vaccines….in particular against thermisol. Thermisol is NOT Mercury. The chemical makeup of Thermisol is C9H9HgNaO2S and Mercury’s is Hg. Know the chemical differnce and don’t fall for the fallacy. Also, Thermisol is out of almost all vaccines in the US…..including MMR. Know what? The rate of autism continues to rise. Anti-vaxxer’s have done more harm in the scientific understanding, and research of autism, than it has ever helped. This is a disease that has been hijacked. So, please understand the credibility of your references, know a little bit about chemistry, and know a little bit about fair balance.

ramblingon on April 25, 2014 at 2:52 PM

Since you write off the break down of ‘herd immunity’ of a high school to ‘larger community’ US’s ‘herd immunity’ is going to be compromised also. Since as you said, High schools are not giant bubbles and [agreed] neither are countries.

Nevsky on April 25, 2014 at 2:38 PM

Sorry, I misspoke upthread. I should have said The US is not INSIDE other countries.

We have some people coming over from other countries, true. Relatively small numbers of US citizens go to other countries. We are part of a larger global community, but we are largely separated by oceans and national borders.

The US is not a subcommunity completely existing inside a larger community, as the high school is inside the town. The high schoolers live in the town. They spend more of their time outside in the community than they do inside the high school. Americans do not live in the other countries. They do not spend more time in the other countries than they do in the US. It is simply not the same thing.

Therefore, in a town, the meaningful number when it comes to outbreaks is the vaccination rate of the entire town, not the vaccination rate inside a building which is only populated 5 days a week.

Missy on April 25, 2014 at 2:52 PM

When was the last time anyone of you received a tetanus vaccine booster shot?

SC.Charlie on April 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM

Last year, when I found out whooping cough was going around the county I live in and also the county I work in (two different counties with another one in between), I got a Tdap booster because I had a nephew who was too young to get the second shot yet. I’ll be damned if someone in my family gets a disease I could have prevented.

cptacek on April 25, 2014 at 2:55 PM

That doesn’t even make logical sense. I’ll admit I’m not a doctor. But I’m pretty logical and science-minded. And that makes no sense whatsoever, if a vaccine actually confers any benefit on me, individually. If it confers no benefit on me individually, then why should I get vaccinated going to another country (where the disease is more prevalent)? If it does, then how does the presence of un-vaccinated people around me cause me to now get the disease? (Which would – again – make my getting a vaccination before I travel overseas totally pointless.)

GWB on April 25, 2014 at 2:39 PM

It’s because vaccines are not “magic bullets,” since, like any medical treatment, they may not work on you personally for some individual reason. They don’t GUARANTEE that you WON’T get the disease, but that the probability of you catching the disease is dramatically lowered. By going into a disease-bearing region, you are taking a calculated risk of catching a disease, a risk that is lowered by getting a vaccine.

ebrown2 on April 25, 2014 at 2:55 PM

That is a good analysis GWB.

Vaccine’s work or it’s failure are on individual level. And outbreak simply exposes a failure that was already there. Therefore, a claim that ‘herd immunity’ (read – mass vaccination) decreases failure rate is unscientific and illogical.

Those in whose bodies vaccine has failed, will contract and become sources of the infection of the disease, when exposed, whether they are in the 100% vaccinated community or not.

Nevsky on April 25, 2014 at 2:57 PM

That doesn’t even make logical sense. I’ll admit I’m not a doctor. But I’m pretty logical and science-minded. And that makes no sense whatsoever, if a vaccine actually confers any benefit on me, individually. If it confers no benefit on me individually, then why should I get vaccinated going to another country (where the disease is more prevalent)? If it does, then how does the presence of un-vaccinated people around me cause me to now get the disease? (Which would – again – make my getting a vaccination before I travel overseas totally pointless.)

GWB on April 25, 2014 at 2:39 PM

I’m not sure I get travel to other countries either. It seems like a Hail Mary to get vaccinated right before going. But the concept of herd immunity is well-established and documented several times upthread. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity

But it’s kind of absurd to even be arguing it. The other countries have both the high rate of disease AND the low-to-no vaccination rate. You are coming from a high-vaccine-rate country and worried about going to a low-vaccine-rate country. Doesn’t that already tell you something basic about the relationship between vaccines and disease? Is it truly just entirely random that these diseases have been eradicated only in countries with high vaccine rates? No one has addressed this.

Missy on April 25, 2014 at 2:58 PM

Don’t kids have to be immunized before going to school? The only ones who aren’t are illegals.

crankyoldlady on April 25, 2014 at 3:01 PM

Umm, because the TB vaccines that exist are not particularly effective as opposed to public health measures to stop the spread of the disease?

ebrown2 on April 25, 2014 at 2:23 PM

The same could actually be said of most vaccines. Having vaccines with 3rd world emergency care would not beat no vaccines with 1st world emergency care.

My point was pretty salient though, Ed (and the CDC) are blowing their minds over no deaths…none. Now if the deaths had been at 60 and jumped to 160…there would still be less children dead from measles that from pools…or tripping and falling…or asthma attacks…or the common cold.

airmonkey on April 25, 2014 at 3:01 PM

Vaccine’s work or it’s failure are on individual level. And outbreak simply exposes a failure that was already there. Therefore, a claim that ‘herd immunity’ (read – mass vaccination) decreases failure rate is unscientific and illogical.

Those in whose bodies vaccine has failed, will contract and become sources of the infection of the disease, when exposed, whether they are in the 100% vaccinated community or not.

Nevsky on April 25, 2014 at 2:57 PM

This is untrue. The outbreaks are occurring in places where there are BOTH high un-vax populations AND high rates of contact with people from countries with high rates of disease (read: illegals).

There are high un-vax populations with low rates of contact (Amish) who are not experiencing outbreaks. And there are high-vax populations with high illegal populations (various large cities, mainly) who are not experiencing outbreaks.

You must have both. That’s how the disease gets in. The un-vax population is the chink in the armor.

Missy on April 25, 2014 at 3:11 PM

Thanks, Jenny McCarthy! Pseudo-science perpetuated by celebrities is AWESOME!!!

deadrody on April 25, 2014 at 3:13 PM

The same could actually be said of most vaccines. Having vaccines with 3rd world emergency care would not beat no vaccines with 1st world emergency care.

My point was pretty salient though, Ed (and the CDC) are blowing their minds over no deaths…none. Now if the deaths had been at 60 and jumped to 160…there would still be less children dead from measles that from pools…or tripping and falling…or asthma attacks…or the common cold.

airmonkey on April 25, 2014 at 3:01 PM

No, it varies by disease. Smallpox worked extraordinarily well because it was a naturally evolved vaccine that was directed against a disease whose only vector was human beings. Herd immunity was precisely the reason for the demise of the disease, since the goal wasn’t to immunize the entire world’s population, but enough to create a hostile environment so that smallpox would go extinct “in the wild,” and it did. With diseases that have other vectors, herd immunity isn’t absolute but it is helpful, so one particular case doesn’t disprove the general rule.

ebrown2 on April 25, 2014 at 3:18 PM

@Missy,

Thank you for the clarification. I can understand the argument you are making that US is not quite as integrated as a high school. I don’t agree with the assessment, hailing from from international community myself and seeing the tremendous people flow back and forth, but I understand what your thought and how it would make sense, if your assessment were correct. So thank you.

Coming back to the herd immunity though, you’ve indicated that

Vaccine failure occurs when the population of vaccinated falls below a certain percentage (herd immunity). This makes the population more vulnerable.

Vaccine failure happens on an individual’s biological body level though. It is not linked to the number of people around the individual vaccinated or not. If the vaccine worked, individual will not contract the disease. if it didn’t, having 100% of people vaccinated around will not help, if s/he comes in a contact with infection though happenstance, s/he still contract.

What the ‘herd immunity’ refers to is not vaccine failure, but disease transmission rates. Problem being the theory is not living up to the claim made. Having 4 generations of transmission rate within the body of people who are 98% vaccinated, indicates that vaccine failure rate is sufficiently significant to allow the transmission that many times, from [mostly] one failed vac person to another. Vaccinating the other 2% will not [mathematically, assuming similar var failure rate)drive down the transmission. It will increase slightly.

So therefore ‘herd immunity’ cannot logically decrease the Vaccine Failure rate. It can ‘theoretically’ reduce transmission. And I am sure it does to some extent, but [as I explained in other posts] there are other factors that strongly influence transmission as well. And considering a steep decline of measles in UK long prior to vaccination (sorry could not find prior century for US and graphs since 60, if UK trend held in US as well, may be biased for vaccination) the benefits of ‘herd immunity are greatly exaggerated.

Nevsky on April 25, 2014 at 3:26 PM

P.S: @ missy, disease outbreak and vaccine failure are separate things. Please don’t use them interchangeably. It leads to your confusion on the posts.

Nevsky on April 25, 2014 at 3:31 PM

If it does, then how does the presence of un-vaccinated people around me cause me to now get the disease? (Which would – again – make my getting a vaccination before I travel overseas totally pointless.)

GWB on April 25, 2014 at 2:39 PM

About .5% of people will not have an immune response to the vaccination, thus leaving them vulnerable to the disease. You cannot predict who will or will not have this vulnerability. So, theoretically, one of your vaccinated family members might still be vulnerable to infection.

I think the best approach is to avoid the religious mindset of the zealots on both the pro- and anti-vaccination sides of the argument, do the best we can, and accept that we will NEVER eradicate the chance that someone, somewhere, will always remain vulnerable to disease. You can’t save everyone no matter how hard you try.

bigbeachbird on April 25, 2014 at 3:31 PM

Nevsky on April 25, 2014 at 3:26 PM

Thanks for your response. I apologize – I should have been more clear. Instead of “vaccine failure” in my earlier comments I should have said “outbreak.” Does that make more sense?

Re: vaccine failure, I don’t mean to suggest that vaccines work equally well in all people. Obviously they can fail. But you seem to be saying that they do work well in some people. So would you then agree that vaccination is, generally speaking, more of an effective bulwark against the spread of disease than non-vaccination?

Missy on April 25, 2014 at 3:35 PM

P.S: @ missy, disease outbreak and vaccine failure are separate things. Please don’t use them interchangeably. It leads to your confusion on the posts.

Nevsky on April 25, 2014 at 3:31 PM

Correct – my apologies. Was composing my 3:35 before I saw this.

Missy on April 25, 2014 at 3:36 PM

Having 4 generations of transmission rate within the body of people who are 98% vaccinated, indicates that vaccine failure rate is sufficiently significant to allow the transmission that many times, from [mostly] one failed vac person to another. Vaccinating the other 2% will not [mathematically, assuming similar var failure rate)drive down the transmission. It will increase slightly.

I can see where vaccine failure could be responsible for transmission from one failed vac person to another. However, if that were the case, you would expect the rate of outbreak to be constant according to vaccination rate (and therefore vaccine failure rate). But it is not constant. Instead, outbreaks are occurring *only* at the intersection of high non-vax population and high-disease-contact rate. This suggests to me that the population of non-vax is a more significant factor in these outbreaks than vaccine failure, and that therefore herd immunity is effectively operating in the high-vax populations that are not experiencing outbreaks.

Anecdotally, my family was exposed to pertussis this winter. My non-vax friend caught it (unknown from whom). She was 39 weeks pregnant with her 5th child by the time she was finally tested. It was a bad case and her 2yo daughter also had a bad case. Rest of family (unvax) did not catch it, but did have antibiotics asap after diagnosis which reduces contagiousness and also can reduce severity.

Second friend’s family was all-vax. Their daughter contacted a mild case from first friend. No other cases in family. These two families are very close and in and out of each other’s houses all the time, so rate of contact was high.

My family was exposed to second friend’s family at about the same time (around Christmas we stayed with them). My family is all-vax. None of us caught it. I was not super worried, but tested anyway just in case since my kids are in public school and we had young infants in our church, etc.

Many other friends, some vax and some not, caught it from original friend. All the vax people had mild cases. Some non-vax people had mild cases too, but all the severe cases were non-vax. Everybody all fine now as far as I know (thank God).

My (many more than) 2 cents.

Missy on April 25, 2014 at 3:58 PM

About .5% of people will not have an immune response to the vaccination, thus leaving them vulnerable to the disease. You cannot predict who will or will not have this vulnerability. So, theoretically, one of your vaccinated family members might still be vulnerable to infection.

I think the best approach is to avoid the religious mindset of the zealots on both the pro- and anti-vaccination sides of the argument, do the best we can, and accept that we will NEVER eradicate the chance that someone, somewhere, will always remain vulnerable to disease. You can’t save everyone no matter how hard you try.

bigbeachbird on April 25, 2014 at 3:31 PM

You never will, because there is no such thing as a “magic bullet” in medicine. Vaccination is a necessary part of public health strategy, especially now that the overused and abused antibiotics era is collapsing due to antibiotic-resistant diseases. That’s the reason Jenny McCarthy is back-peddling at warp speed from her anti vaxxer history.

ebrown2 on April 25, 2014 at 4:03 PM

I am glad to see we are no longer at each other’s throats on this.

As I stated before, vaccination is a great concept as in of itself.

Two issues that must be dealt with, though.

- Methods and soundness of the vaccines themselves. That must always be open to real debate. People will rebel if they consider that something harmful is put in their bodies, and denigrating them does not dissuade them, but makes them more suspicious. More importantly there is always room for improvement and that comes only through debate. And there is plenty of room for improvement currently.

- Freedom over one’s body and that of one’s children who in one’s care. It is never right to take away someone’s Liberty [to be differentiated from anarchy], especially in the matter where the force would in one’s mind endanger one’s body or children.

So now on one hand you have those who are against vaccines for one reason or another, and those who for them.

One’ll never be able to reconcile them both to 100% satisfaction. But if either side pushes too far it’ll be close to a civil war, that much is clear.

I maintain there must be a compromise somewhere. Considering that the contention point comes down to Transmission, here are just a three of measures both sides will agree on:

- Border control.

- Prosperity (there is a positive correlation between blossoming a capitalistic society and drop in diseases [for a variety of reasons).

- Continual research of vaccines and their side-affects and positives. For example, there is NO biological reason why vaccines have to be built on aborted human children remains. Eliminate this and you’ll have a number of people who will voluntarily join the vaccination crowd. Overnight.

Will there be chinks? Yes. But they will always exist, even if the pro-v crowd manages to forcefully vaccinate the against-v’s.

Question is how do we go about minimizing them without making each other the “safety of a prison cell”. And currently there are so many of them that even the thought of “mandatory” vaccination becomes an overs implication.

Good day to you.

Nevsky on April 25, 2014 at 4:04 PM

Good day to you.

Nevsky on April 25, 2014 at 4:04 PM

Good day to you too, and thank you for the conversation. Glad we are not fighting anymore. You make some excellent arguments. I agree with many if not most of them. I certainly agree about aborted children, but I thought that practice had already ceased. Finding reliable information about it is challenging.

Another problem for me is that I live in one of those places with high illegal population and lots of non-vax parents (who make up a significant portion of our extended friends and family). So, my children are at higher risk. It doesn’t make me crazy scared of disease (I myself do not get flu shots, for example, and am a germophile) but it does make me more attuned to the real-life risks that may be more theoretical for other commenters.

Missy on April 25, 2014 at 4:20 PM

One of the reasons for the decline in polio before 1954 is that parents were “helicoptering” children massively, hence the outpouring of relief when Salk and Sabin came up with their vaccines:

http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1955&dat=19490821&id=grwhAAAAIBAJ&sjid=mZwFAAAAIBAJ&pg=6447,6067280

ebrown2 on April 25, 2014 at 4:40 PM

The number of people in this thread that actually buy into the anti-vax crap amazes and saddens me. Perhaps it shouldn’t, given the old saying comparing human stupidity with the universe, or just my day job, but what can I say?

There’s a lot of stupid going around about vaccines. Vaccines work by exposing you to either a killed virus, or a “neutralized” live virus that has been crippled in some form. This provokes an immune response, triggering the immune system to develop B cells that produce special enzymes. These bond to proteins in the outer shell of the virus, rendering it inert and “flagging” It for various other immune cells to kill the virus and any infected cells being used for reproduction. Some of those B cells become “memory” B cells, which are basically your immune system’s database of known threats. When one of them shows up again, the appropriate batch of memory cells replicates and goes to work, instead of the body having to essentially guess its way to the right antigen.

Not everyone gains or retains immunity from a vaccine. Vaccines start around 85% effective, and cap upwards of 99%, depending on the vaccine. When you have total inoculation, you get an effect called “herd immunity”, where a single case cannot spread among the vulnerable population because each of those people are several “steps” away from a sick individual. When people stop vaccinating and that herd immunity degrades, it soon becomes worthless. A 3x increase is still a small number with measles, but these things don’t spread linearly in the modern world. They spread exponentially, largely thanks to the ease of modern travel.

Autism is a highly specific form of mental retardation with unknown causes. It might have to do with a gamma ray burst from a far elliptical galaxy a few billion years ago. It might be from the pair of magnetar shots our planet took in the last 30 years (radiation bursts from outer space, of an actually harmful type of radiation). It could be vaccines. It could be runoff from Taco Bell’s Stray Dog Euthanization Clinic and Meat Production Facility. It could be globally available caffeine. Or, most likely, it’s a generic condition we just don’t understand yet.

The real increase in autism diagnoses seems to be a side effect of broadened diagnostic criteria. I’ve been diagnosed with Asperger’s, in the past, which is a low- to mid-grade version of the condition. With people knowing more about mental illness and actually looking after their kids (as opposed to shipping them to sanitariums), and it becoming more sympathetic and less shameful, diagnoses have increased. On the flip side, a lot of parents push to have plain old retardation diagnosed as autism, due to greater societal acceptance of and assistance with the disease with a name. This, most likely, is the set of conditions behind the increased rate of autism diagnoses: broader criteria, different conditions being lumped into an autism “spectrum”, and parents more willing to accept the condition and take care of the child.

There was anecdotal evidence offered by two people earlier in the thread. First, if you’re telling the truth, my condolences. However, what’s been described is an excessive inflammation response, which is usually a sign of secondary concurrent infection. It’s possible for a high fever to harm the brain, which is why 104 and up gets you admitted to an ER instantly. If those children weren’t immediately take and cooled properly, that’s not the vaccine’s fault, it’s the parents’. No medication is 100% safe, and no medical professional should ever claim (and I’ve yet to meet one that does) that anything they inject you with has no possible repercussions. The vast majority of long-term side effects can be prevented by prompt treatment of immediate side effects. That’s the reason everything comes with a list of, “If you develop any of the following, seek medical help immediately…”

In the meantime, anti-vax’ers abuse the herd immunity of others in an effort to protect their own kids from an extremely rare threat. In turn, they expose their own children to potentially lethal infections and undermine the herd immunity that prevents pandemics. You don’t need s drop to 0%; just a drop to 80% inoculation rates is enough to practically guarantee a major outbreak.

There’s a lot of good reasons to worry about what the government says, especially with flavor-of-the-week crap like global warming. Vaccines have 250 years of very good empirical evidence that they work, work well, and benefit essentially everyone.

The only argument I saw above that I put any credence to is the one about the rubella vaccine. While it’s a concern from a faith and morality perspective, and would be best served by competition among vaccine makers. The problem is, not many want to get in on something that is expensive and has minimal profit margins, while being mainly reliant on government contracts. There’s no ability to patent a natural vaccine, only synthetic vaccines (which I distinctively DON’T trust), which further kills any profit potential. In such a situation, with something that really does affect the entire population and is a major national defense issue, I have to say the state governments are justified in this.

Asurea on April 25, 2014 at 5:19 PM

All this talk of peanut butter sandwiches makes me hungry. I want the dumb blonde who should keep her mouth and her legs shut to make it for me. Extra jelly Jenny!
Illegals bring in crime, socialist attitudes, and third world disease. People who listen to a former playboy sl*t on how to parent their children need to stop having kids. We got enough dumb democrats.
Extra jelly Jenny!

TinFin on April 25, 2014 at 5:24 PM

TinFin on April 25, 2014 at 5:24 PM

You, sir, are a pig, a troll, or both.

Asurea on April 25, 2014 at 6:04 PM

why not exaggerate some more, WryTrvllr?

http://www.livestrong.com/article/234411-harmful-effects-of-prescription-drugs/

avagreen on April 25, 2014 at 1:35 PM

Don’t have to Ava. When you read/believe all those studies about people dying in hospitals from medical mistakes, did you think they meant aspirin?

WryTrvllr on April 25, 2014 at 6:16 PM

Wait a minute. You quote Livestrong? The guy who bloodpacked. Bloodpack good, epogen bad.

WryTrvllr on April 25, 2014 at 6:17 PM

The small pox vaccine was UNAVAILABLE for my children. It was supposedly irradiated. Yes, it could be brought back and I would want my children and grandchildren to get the vaccine. Again, in the late 70″s, doctors no longer gave the vaccine and it was not required. BTW, Are you and your family vaccinated against Anthrax?

fight like a girl on April 25, 2014 at 1:33 PM

Would be if I could get it. My inlaw is an ID specialist. If I could, I’d pay my vet to be vaccinated against rabies and lyme too.

WryTrvllr on April 25, 2014 at 6:20 PM

Too many vaccines, Asurea? Shut your mouth.

TinFin on April 25, 2014 at 7:00 PM

The return of these childhood diseases should be a national embarrassment, and any preventable deaths or damage done cause for shame.

I’m more inclined to think that shaming multitudes for beliefs and a way of life they don’t share is cause for individual embarrassment. Really, please stop saying things just because it feels grand to say them.

Marsili.us on April 25, 2014 at 7:02 PM

Too many vaccines, Asurea? Shut your mouth.
TinFin on April 25, 2014 at 7:00 PM

Being caught as a troll on one of your first posts=fail troll.

Asurea on April 25, 2014 at 7:17 PM

That page long diatribe you posted says you agree with me or not, it’s a masterpiece of mush mash crap and I want to look smart. I am not a troll, but it seems you are an uber sensitive idiot. You can make me a sandwich.

TinFin on April 25, 2014 at 7:26 PM

The driving factors of disease outbreaks of infectious disease in America are stress and hygiene. The reason that the rest of the world has higher rates of infection are because their populations have more stress and worse hygiene. The reason New York has measles right now is…drumroll…immigration, and probably mainly the Moslem immigrants, who have recently brought bedbugs with them as well.

As for herd immunity, the problem with relying on the practice is that such thinking assumes that bacteria, e.g., pertussis, has only a single strain that never mutates. Unfortunately, once a weaker strain of bacteria is wiped out (or nearly so), the stronger strains begin to flourish. It’s like pruning back trees & shrubs in your backyard, and boom! you’ve got grass growing. Nature abhors a vacuum. The good thing is that nowadays antibiotics and I.V. hydration and antiemetics are widely available and affordable, even without a medical plan.

TXJenny on April 25, 2014 at 7:40 PM

All the ‘progressives’ should be happy for they are seeing Darwinism at work. They listened to some blond bimbo named Jenny McCarthy who is an expert in everything because she is a ‘celebrity’ and didn’t vaccinate their kids. Now those kids are catching Measles soon to be followed by Polio which is one plane ride from Pakistan away from us (The Pakistani’s listened to Jenny, too.)

Measles sterilizes some of those who contract it which means all those poor kids will never become parents. In this case it is the kids who are being raised by ‘progressive’ parents who listen to blond bimbo ‘celebrities’ for medical advice. Darwin, if he were alive today, would cite those kids as being fine examples of ‘survival of the fittest’ because they won’t be able to breed more ‘progressives’.

Nahanni on April 25, 2014 at 8:07 PM

WryTrvllr on April 25, 2014 at 6:20 PM

Anthrax, Rabies and Lyme vaccines are available for people. Please let me know how you make out. And don’t forget the meningitis, hepatitis A and B, and shingles vaccines. Get them all on the same day to save time.

fight like a girl on April 25, 2014 at 8:14 PM

Well this was timely. At 55 years old, I found out today that I have no immunity to measles. Mumps and Rubella and varicella, yes…. measles no. I’m going to Africa in two weeks so I have been getting shots… and had some blood work done — hence I know that I’m not immune to measles. The doctor tells me that the MMR vaccine in adults carries a significant risk of long-term arthritis. Plus it’s a live virus so it’s not really suitable to give to me as I have some other autoimmune conditions. Nobody manufacturers only a measles vaccine anymore, so I have pretty limited options. I guess I’ll have to take my chances.

GlutenMom on April 25, 2014 at 8:16 PM

why not exaggerate some more, WryTrvllr?

http://www.livestrong.com/article/234411-harmful-effects-of-prescription-drugs/

avagreen on April 25, 2014 at 1:35 PM

Don’t have to Ava. When you read/believe all those studies about people dying in hospitals from medical mistakes, did you think they meant aspirin?

WryTrvllr on April 25, 2014 at 6:16 PM

No, dear. People die from many things in a hospital……faulty diagnoses, poor treatment and/or poor nursing (it does happen), mistakes (such as giving someone pure saline via IV instead of electrolytes for two weeks), sponge left inside the surgical patient, medication injected into a baby’s IV at a dose calculated for a 200 pound man, excruciating infection from contaminated equipment used at the bedside, etc.

Trying to make points from comparing hospital deaths to deaths by aspirin is a little desperate on your part. It’s called oversimplification, and it’s a logical fallacy. I’m not sure what your point is, or what it had to do with the article I posted, which is that prescription drugs can have deadly consequences.

One does not negate the other, regardless of how you’d like to think it does.

avagreen on April 25, 2014 at 8:53 PM

…faulty diagnoses, poor treatment and/or poor nursing (it does happen),

Yes dear, I know it happens. My wife’s first job as an intern was to pronounce someone ALIVE, so they could get breakfast.

I know YOU don’t know what my point is. We’ve been here before.

You forgot drip rates and sign outs, Ava.

WryTrvllr on April 25, 2014 at 9:03 PM

As for herd immunity, the problem with relying on the practice is that such thinking assumes that bacteria, e.g., pertussis, has only a single strain that never mutates. Unfortunately, once a weaker strain of bacteria is wiped out (or nearly so), the stronger strains begin to flourish. It’s like pruning back trees & shrubs in your backyard, and boom! you’ve got grass growing. Nature abhors a vacuum. The good thing is that nowadays antibiotics and I.V. hydration and antiemetics are widely available and affordable, even without a medical plan.
TXJenny on April 25, 2014 at 7:40 PM

Different bugs mutate at different rates. Herd immunity is far more effective than you give it credit for, for a very simple reason: unlike various pharmaceuticals, your body can adapt to the changes in the pathogen. Immunity to one strain typically results in greatly reduced severity and duration of infection by another strain. Of course, there are exceptions, but it’s been pretty well demonstrated. Remember that cowpox was the first virus used as a vaccine against smallpox, for example.

Asurea on April 25, 2014 at 9:25 PM

I know YOU don’t know what my point is. We’ve been here before.

You forgot drip rates and sign outs, Ava.

WryTrvllr on April 25, 2014 at 9:03 PM

LOL! Your point was moot, as well as was your scattered attention to details of what the discussion was about. You jump around like a nervous cat on a hot sewer lid, trying to sound erudite. I know exactly what your point was about, and it had nothing to do whatsoever with what my article was about. Of course, how would you know? You didn’t even read it …… by your own words. You just can’t admit it and try to fool anyone who will listen that you really know what you’re talking about.

And, borrowing glory from your wife’s experiences doesn’t make you a hero. How does she feel, btw, about your ignorance over the bad effects of pharmaceuticals?

avagreen on April 25, 2014 at 9:37 PM

Illegal immigrants…. the gifts that keep on giving.

Oh wait.. sorry… I meant to say measles are an act of love.

Along with all the other diseases and infestations making a comeback in America from small pox to leprosy to bed bugs.

JellyToast on April 25, 2014 at 10:55 PM

avagreen on April 25, 2014 at 9:37 PM

Keep trying Ava. someday you’ll stop crying.

WryTrvllr on April 25, 2014 at 11:47 PM

You think my wife’s experience was glory? I signed the paperwork.

Go cry somewhere else.

WryTrvllr on April 25, 2014 at 11:49 PM

But you are right. I don’t read your self loathing material.

WryTrvllr on April 25, 2014 at 11:50 PM

Get them all on the same day to save time.

fight like a girl on April 25, 2014 at 8:14 PM

Thanks. I’ll skip that part. The three for hep B are done already. I haven’t seen rabies for people. just the immunoglobulin. Given to a friend who woke up at his lake house with a bat on his face.

WryTrvllr on April 26, 2014 at 3:05 AM

Some people are choosing not to have their children immunized for personal reasons and others are unaware of, or unable to get, vaccinations, before they arrive in the U.S. She said the CDC is also seeing growth in the disease pertussis, also known as whooping cough.

How much of this increase is due to illegal immigrants? Or are those statistics too offensive to keep.

magicbeans on April 26, 2014 at 10:24 AM

Going to HA and expecting any modicum of intelligence when it comes to anything involving reality is folly.

The only thing we can hope for is the anti-vaccine people are.. “selected” against one way or another.

‘Twould be an interesting exercise to post a Google Map of households that don’t vaccinate.

Also hilarious is the blame of Mexicans for all of it. Sure, they probably do contribute, but if you have the same level of education as them and perform the same practices you might as well be one.

antisense on April 26, 2014 at 10:27 AM

Also hilarious is the blame of Mexicans for all of it. Sure, they probably do contribute, but if you have the same level of education as them and perform the same practices you might as well be one.

antisense on April 26, 2014 at 10:27 AM

How many “anti vaxers” are there? Are there more than 11 million?

Nice name, antisense, it suits you.

magicbeans on April 26, 2014 at 11:18 AM

Going to HA and expecting any modicum of intelligence when it comes to anything involving reality is folly.

antisense on April 26, 2014 at 10:27 AM

Then here’s an alternative.

LawfulGood on April 26, 2014 at 3:23 PM

Going to HA and expecting any modicum of intelligence when it comes to anything involving reality is folly.

The only thing we can hope for is the anti-vaccine people are.. “selected” against one way or another.

‘Twould be an interesting exercise to post a Google Map of households that don’t vaccinate.

Also hilarious is the blame of Mexicans for all of it. Sure, they probably do contribute, but if you have the same level of education as them and perform the same practices you might as well be one.

antisense on April 26, 2014 at 10:27 AM

Can I pay you to follow me and scold me thru all my life, and not just the moments I happen to browse to er, hatair.cam?

Murphy9 on April 26, 2014 at 5:42 PM

To put it bluntly, the more who are vaccinated against a particular disease, the lower the chance that ANYONE in the non-vaccinated group will get the disease.

Conversely, the more who are in the non-vaccinated group, the greater the chance that the disease will infect one or more in the total population.

Those who forego vaccinations are expecting that because most others are “picking up the slack” that they can piggy-back off of that population.

And, if they play this game with their children, they are just taunting Darwin, so to speak.

And measles isn’t the worst of it. Whooping cough is on the rise too.

http://www.hanoverhorton.org/vnews/display.v/ART/53594dab07a3e

unclesmrgol on April 26, 2014 at 8:10 PM

JellyToast on April 25, 2014 at 10:55 PM

The CDC said that 54 of this year’s 58 California cases were in some way associated with importation of the virus from abroad. Twenty-five of the people infected were not immunized–19 of them because of philosophical objections–and 18 more had no documentation of vaccinations. Three were too young for routine vaccination and three others were not vaccinated for unknown reasons.

Yes, perhaps illegal aliens are part of the problem. But the other part are those who think the rest of the population being vaccinated means that they don’t have to be.

unclesmrgol on April 26, 2014 at 8:20 PM

Also hilarious is the blame of Mexicans for all of it. Sure, they probably do contribute, but if you have the same level of education as them and perform the same practices you might as well be one.

antisense on April 26, 2014 at 10:27 AM

Look.. when you have millions of people slipping across the border they are not stopping to be checked for disease and infections.
It does not take a brainiac to know when they slip across the border they bring whatever disease and infestations they have with them.

There is a reason countries try to control immigration. Diseases are just one of them. For the love of God.. you can’t even bring certain fruits or plants into America for fear of infecting the plants here!

Thousands of immigrants every year from God knows where carrying who knows what and we do nothing! And then they get jobs at Taco Bell and McDonald’s! Oh great!

Last I heard even leprosy has increased in America by 400% How do you think that is happening!?
And bedbugs? Don’t even get me started!

JellyToast on April 26, 2014 at 9:16 PM

@nevsky,

I’m sorry, but you are misrepresenting the data (likely unintentionally). Measles DEATHS plummeted in the UK and Wales before vaccination because of the availability of far better supportive care. Measles INFECTIONS did not drop until there was widespread vaccinations, however (of course there was some year to year variation as there always had been). See: http://www.hpa.org.uk/web/HPAweb&HPAwebStandard/HPAweb_C/1195733835814 Notice the steep decline that was sustained after about 1970. Measles vaccinations began in the UK and Wales in about 1968.

You’re also oversimplifying the individual effect of vaccinations. Vaccine efficacy varies from person to person depending on the particular vaccination and disease.

It’s almost never a “works 100% or it fails” situation. How good (or poor) your individual response is and how much it protects you various based on a number of different factors, including your personal immunological make up and biology (re: genetics), the status of your immunological system when vaccinated, your age (e.g., you get much less response to vaccinations as you age), anything that has compromised your immune system (AIDS, malnutrition, other diseases, etc.).

Then on top of that, whether you catch something or not also depends on just how heavy a viral or bacterial load you are exposed to, and for how long. Which is why a doctor treating a particular disease outbreak before we had all the protective gear and advance hygiene, for example, was vastly more likely to contract the disease than someone who just walked past a single infected individual or came in contact with a tiny amount of the disease.

All of these factors are why “herd immunity” is real, and significant. With “herd immunity” you drastically reduce the viral or bacterial load that anyone is likely to be exposed to, even if there is vaccine failure in one (or a few individuals).

This is also why elderly people are cautioned to NOT visit anywhere someone is ill with a serious contagious disease if possible (within reason) – because while they likely have some immunity, it’s probably not nearly so robust and they are far more likely to not only get ill, but of course the affect on them is also likely to be more extreme.

Herd immunity absolutely works – both to prevent the spread of disease, and to minimize any outbreaks to begin with. If the majority are immunized, then even those who have a less robust immune response to their own vaccinations aren’t ever likely to be exposed to a high enough vector load for a long enough time period for it to overcome their immunity.

Rational Db8 on April 26, 2014 at 10:33 PM

Rational Db8 on April 26, 2014 at 10:33 PM

Oh see, there. You did it. Now you’re going to make me change my mind. Why should I sustain antisense’s immune system.

WryTrvllr on April 26, 2014 at 11:23 PM

@WryTrvllr on April 26, 2014 at 11:23 PM

ROFL!! Thanks for the chuckle – good thing it wasn’t over morning coffee or you’d’ve owed me a new keyboard!

Rational Db8 on April 27, 2014 at 3:05 AM

@Jellytoast,

You can thank “environmentalists” for bedbugs. They banned DDT, which is one of the few things that actually kills bedbugs – and in banning it, they also condemned literally millions to die and suffer from malaria overseas. All based on faulty information and bad science in Rachel Carson’s “Silent Spring.”

Want to hear a bizarre factoid however? Just heat your home (or the infected area) to at least 115 for a solid hour. Presto, dead bedbugs. No joke. Just don’t set your house on fire doing it!! Here in the desert southwest, there are some summer days where all we’d have to do is open up all the doors and windows, and set up a fan or two and leave it for a few hours to be sure everything got heated up sufficiently… :0)

Rational Db8 on April 27, 2014 at 3:15 AM

@SC.Charlie on April 25, 2014 at 1:58 PM

This year. I was working on a horse’s rear foot in the stall. Horse snatched the foot from me and kicked, tossing me head first into the steel door frame. Hello stitches – and tetanus booster because the last time I’d had one was over 10 years, when I’d gotten an ulcerated cornea. When you deal with horses, you never take the risk of not getting a booster if you get injured and it’s been over 5 years (or at least not longer than 10) since you last had one. Not worth taking the risk any time you get a puncture wound or animal bite regardless – the organism can remain dormant for ages.

Rational Db8 on April 27, 2014 at 3:26 AM

Can any of you who are blaming Mexicans give me some evidence for your claims that they are bringing diseases? I saw a PDF comparing vaccination rates for many countries, and Mexico had even higher vaccination rates than the US.

yelnats on April 27, 2014 at 5:04 AM

Why did Noah have to bring bedbugs with him on the Ark? Man we could have dodged that bullet long ago.

antisense on April 27, 2014 at 11:13 AM

Can I pay you to follow me and scold me thru all my life, and not just the moments I happen to browse to er, hatair.cam?

Murphy9 on April 26, 2014 at 5:42 PM

Yes, I accept Obamacare payments and LegalZoom.com

antisense on April 27, 2014 at 11:15 AM

Yes, I accept Obamacare payments and LegalZoom.com

antisense on April 27, 2014 at 11:15 AM

So,…. it won’t show up as any funky charge on my credit card bill?

WryTrvllr on April 28, 2014 at 12:20 AM

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