Bundy’s comments on race provide breaking point for Paul, Heller; Update: Bundy affirms on radio show

posted at 9:34 am on April 24, 2014 by Ed Morrissey

And probably most other Cliven Bundy supporters as well, assuming that the New York Times report of his Saturday press conference is accurate. National Journal’s Brian Resnick described these comments as something “overheard” by the Times, but the Times report itself puts them in the context of an open meeting that took place after only two media outlets arrived for Bundy’s daily presser:

Cliven Bundy stood by the Virgin River up the road from the armed checkpoint at the driveway of his ranch, signing autographs and posing for pictures. For 55 minutes, Mr. Bundy held forth to a clutch of supporters about his views on the troubled state of America — the overreaching federal government, the harassment of Western ranchers, the societal upheaval caused by abortion, even musing about whether slavery was so bad.

“Overheard” isn’t quite accurate, in other words. This was a public event, and Bundy put his foot squarely in his mouth during it:

He said he would continue holding a daily news conference; on Saturday, it drew one reporter and one photographer, so Mr. Bundy used the time to officiate at what was in effect a town meeting with supporters, discussing, in a long, loping discourse, the prevalence of abortion, the abuses of welfare and his views on race.

“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he said. Mr. Bundy recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, “and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do.

“And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”

Yeesh. That’s about as ugly as it gets. It certainly got the attention of Senator Rand Paul, who had been one of Bundy’s supporters during the rancher’s standoff with the BLM. Paul’s office issued a statement distancing the Senator from Bundy, as Resnick reported:

“His remarks on race are offensive and I wholeheartedly disagree with him,” Sen. Rand Paul said in a statement Thursday morning.

Closer to home, Bundy also lost Sen. Dean Heller, who had been arguing his case last week in a debate with Harry Reid:

Sen. Dan Heller, who the Times writes has called Bundy’s supporters “patriots,” offered this response to the paper via a spokesperson. He “completely disagrees with Mr. Bundy’s appalling and racist statements, and condemns them in the most strenuous way.”

This has always been a tricky case, one where sympathies and the law go in opposite directions, as John Hinderaker noted at Power Line last week. Legally, Bundy doesn’t have a leg on which to stand, and his weird insistence that the federal government has no jurisdiction on federal land has no basis in law or reality. Having the BLM show up with a small army to collect a debt made it easy to sympathize with Bundy and to call their actions into question, but they’ve been pursuing this case through the courts for more than two decades, too, while Bundy grazes on federal land. The federal government may own too much land, but that’s an issue for the states to fight in court, not ranchers with guns.

Bundy doesn’t have a legal case. And it looks like sympathy just ran out for him, too.

Update: Jeff Dunetz advises conservatives who have sympathized with Bundy to walk away:

Cliven Bundy has broken the law to get what he wants.  He should fight within the system to change the law.  If he was going for an act of civil disobedience to make a statement, he should be prepared to accept the consequences. One of the consequences is confiscation of property including Elsie and all the other cows. But Mr. Bundy is trying to have it both ways break the law but face no consequences.  Beyond that I am not aware of any attempt of his to try and change the law, just his refusal to follow it.

In the end Cliven Bundy’s actions are indefensible from a conservative point of view while the federal government should not be owning the land—they do. In the end the govt. was protecting its property rights however unjustified they are.

Now that Mr. Bundy is shown to have at best racially insensitive beliefs, it time to end his 15 minutes of fame and its time for my conservative friends and colleagues who have shown him support to run away as fast as humanly possible.

Update: Bundy repeated the sentiment on Peter Schiff’s radio show today, stressing the use of “I’m wondering…”:

So the Times didn’t misquote Bundy. Mediaite also has video of Bundy making this statement originally. Conservatives didn’t buy the “I’m just asking questions” when 9/11 Truthers used that excuse; they shouldn’t accept it from Bundy either.


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All the figures indicate approximately 15 million more people can afford health insurance now than did previously.

*links to official numbers requested

Good Lt on April 24, 2014 at 4:01 PM

NotCoach on April 24, 2014 at 3:58 PM

1600-2200 shift starts soon, flipper gotta get paid.

Bishop on April 24, 2014 at 4:02 PM

Because the black situation is pitiful and the culture is pathetic.

Is that a fact?

How many blacks did you survey to come up with this answer?

Good Lt on April 24, 2014 at 4:02 PM

This is a huge part of what everyone here – both those semi-supporting Bundy, and those wanting him burned at the stake, and everyone in-between – is choking on in your comments. How in the world do you see it as possibly better for society if slavery were returned as an institution? (And, leave off the racial component to make it as clear as possible.)

Because, until that is answered, you sound like 1) a troll, 2) a real racist, or 3) a mental degenerate.

GWB on April 24, 2014 at 3:56 PM

Remember, he’s not talking slavery in general, but only slavery of black people.

Slavery of white people would NOT be similarly beneficial for society, just slavery of black people.

And hmm, i guess what he’s also saying is that blacks aren’t really a part of american society at all – slavery is good for society, just not for blacks.

And what should make you righties really step back and wonder about this is that just like you guys, Rockin Rick here is convinced that HE IS NOT RACIST, Rockin Rick just thinks he’s pointing out legitimate facts of life. In his mind, the logic of his non-racism is perfectly clear…just like yours is in your minds.

Anyways, gotta run for reals now. XOXOXOXXOXOX :-)

everdiso on April 24, 2014 at 4:03 PM

Clear enough for everybody?

RockinRickOwen on April 24, 2014 at 3:59 PM

That isn’t what you said. And you didn’t answer the question. You said society would be better off if blacks were slaves…

oldroy on April 24, 2014 at 4:03 PM

BlaxPac on April 24, 2014 at 3:11 PM

+1000

Not to mention that some blacks owned black slaves themselves…

Who Was The First Slave Owner In America?

Slavery in all of its forms here and elsewhere was and is abhorrent and Bundy obviously hasn’t considered the fact that blacks didn’t have much of a ‘family life’ under slavery since many were broken up as their members were sold off.

Resist We Much on April 24, 2014 at 4:03 PM

What do you mean so few?

All the figures indicate approximately 15 million more people can afford health insurance now than did previously.

That’s not so few.

everdiso on April 24, 2014 at 3:52 PM

First of all, your Cult Leader claims that only 8 million people have signed up for ACA. That is his claim, and his claim alone. Not bolstered by actual evidence. After all, he’s Lied about ACA many times previously, and will continue to do so.

Second, 15 million more people is not that many. In fact, it’s only about 5% of the total population of the United States. 8 million is an even smaller number.

Third, more people who have already enrolled in ACA told Gallup that it has hurt them and their families more than it has helped them. And more of those same people tell Gallup that in the long run ACA will hurt them more than it helps them.

Fourth, many of those who signed up didn’t even pay their first premiums. The White House refuses to tell us that. How does ACA “help” them?

Sure you want to keep trolling? You’re not doing very well here.

Del Dolemonte on April 24, 2014 at 4:04 PM

W

ere they? Who said it, was it a fully supported strategy by Bundy or some fringe group or all of the supporters there or what? Because if you’re talking about killing people you might want better evidence than “I overheard someone say….”

And if the Black Panthers were pointing guns at voters and the voters believed they were going to fire the guns, yes, people would be justified in shooting back.

Back at you, bishop.

jim56 on April 24, 2014 at 3:34 PM

Ah but the BP aren’t pointing guns just as the militia aren’t pointing guns, if they were you could produce evidence, yes?

Think about what you’re advocating here, citizen, that people on private ground be executed for crimes that haven’t occurred, only for actions that someone like you THINKS might happen.

You’re going to kill two people…and you still have to justify the wife’s termination…because no crime occurred?

Bishop on April 24, 2014 at 3:46 PM

You have an ex-sheriff quoted on a radio show, Fox News and the Washington Times about his plan.

You have the son of Bundy being thrown in jail after resisting arrest and kicking a dog earlier last week (a crime, but not Bundy’s). You have Bundy being in contempt of court (a crime, which can be punished by fine and imprisonment). You have Bundy and the wife being accessories to a crime (people with whom they associate aiming guns at federal officers, which is likely a felony as criminal assault).

Who says no crime occurred?

jim56 on April 24, 2014 at 4:04 PM

I love how a property rights and constitutional rights issue becomes all about race. Do any of you see what is happening here?

fight like a girl on April 24, 2014 at 4:06 PM

How many blacks did you survey to come up with this answer?

Good Lt on April 24, 2014 at 4:02 PM

Schadenfreude on April 24, 2014 at 4:07 PM

And what should make you righties really step back and wonder about this is that just like you guys, Rockin Rick here is convinced that HE IS NOT RACIST, Rockin Rick just thinks he’s pointing out legitimate facts of life. In his mind, the logic of his non-racism is perfectly clear…just like yours is in your minds.

Anyways, gotta run for reals now. XOXOXOXXOXOX :-)

everdiso on April 24, 2014 at 4:03 PM

Wow. So because Rockin Rick is punking Hot Air (can’t imagine this guy is in any way a real person), we’re all racist. Must be this years election strategy. Now all we need is gumby to show up to start analyzing the polls for us.

oldroy on April 24, 2014 at 4:07 PM

A documentary on the history of Democrats and blacks must be made.

It won’t be what any leftist latrine-dwellers think it’ll be.

Schadenfreude on April 24, 2014 at 4:09 PM

behaviour

everdiso on April 24, 2014 at 3:36 PM

Are you an American citizen?

And if so, what other country did you immigrate here from?

Take your time.

Del Dolemonte on April 24, 2014 at 3:54 PM

Too bad i gotta run.

everdiso on April 24, 2014 at 3:57 PM

Refusal to answer my question duly noted.

A+

Del Dolemonte on April 24, 2014 at 4:09 PM

How many blacks did you survey to come up with this answer?

Good Lt on April 24, 2014 at 4:02 PM

Schadenfreude on April 24, 2014 at 4:07 PM

Maybe Sewer Dweller and the other trolls should watch that video as well. Their brains will probably explode because a black woman actually understands what he was saying.

NotCoach on April 24, 2014 at 4:10 PM

You have an ex-sheriff quoted on a radio show, Fox News and the Washington Times about his plan.

One guy talking, emphasis on “his” plan in case you missed it. As for the plan itself please cite either the local, state, county, or federal statute which says it’s a crime to put women at the front of a gathering. I’ll wait.

You have the son of Bundy being thrown in jail after resisting arrest and kicking a dog earlier last week (a crime, but not Bundy’s).

Thrown in jail you say? Huh, seems like justice has been served on someone who actually committed a crime, why would you shoot his parents after the fact?

You have Bundy being in contempt of court (a crime, which can be punished by fine and imprisonment)

.

And apparently execution.

You have Bundy and the wife being accessories to a crime (people with whom they associate aiming guns at federal officers, which is likely a felony as criminal assault).

Who says no crime occurred?

jim56 on April 24, 2014 at 4:04 PM

Again, link to evidence that the people on BUNDY’s…focus…BUNDY’s land were aiming guns at federal officers. Not the guy on the public overpass, the peeps on BUNDY’s…I’ll say it again….BUNDY’s land.

And if they were, then execution of the Bundy’s is the next step? Please provide the legal logic tree to support your conclusion.

Bishop on April 24, 2014 at 4:12 PM

And what should make you righties really step back and wonder about this is that just like you guys, Rockin Rick here is convinced that HE IS NOT RACIST, Rockin Rick just thinks he’s pointing out legitimate facts of life. In his mind, the logic of his non-racism is perfectly clear…just like yours is in your minds.

Anyways, gotta run for reals now. XOXOXOXXOXOX :-)

everdiso on April 24, 2014 at 4:03 PM

Look, here’s how this is going to be, champ.

Your an advocate for a political party that put the fat drunken murderer named Ted Kennedy in a Senate seat for his entire adult life.

That means you support drowning women in cars after driving them off a bridge because you were drunk.

And that’s every single Democrat everywhere. You ALL support that.

Correct?

Good Lt on April 24, 2014 at 4:12 PM

A documentary on the history of Democrats and blacks must be made.

It won’t be what any leftist latrine-dwellers think it’ll be.

Schadenfreude on April 24, 2014 at 4:09 PM

Does Runaway Slave count?

OWN IT ON DVD! Find it at Walmart and other fine retailers.
http://www.runawayslavemovie.com

RUNAWAY SLAVE is a compelling, insightful look at why growing dependency on big government is destroying America, Black and White. Through entitlements and other government programs, a perpetual state of welfare exists, creating what can only be described as a form of modern slavery for a large percentage of the African-American community. The documentary features Rev. C.L. Bryant, who proudly refers to himself as a “runaway slave.” This former NAACP chapter president left the organization after concluding its goals were more about political posturing than actual civil rights. Rev. Bryant says he escaped the bondage of progressivism and denounced the shackles of entitlements. He now has committed himself to helping others secure the blessings of liberty that are guaranteed by the Constitution. While Rev. Bryant’s compelling story helps launch the film, we soon discover he is not alone as he treks across the new Underground Railroad in America.

http://www.runawayslavemovie.com
“Run away from the slavery of tyranny toward the blessings of liberty!”

Murphy9 on April 24, 2014 at 4:13 PM

Nearly 1000 comments and this thread isn’t in Top Picks?

What’s up with that, Ed?

Bitter Clinger on April 24, 2014 at 2:50 PM

I think Ed and Hot Air want to “downplay” this issue.

TarheelBen on April 24, 2014 at 2:58 PM

Whomever runs the HotAir Facebook account sure doesn’t.

Hawkins1701 on April 24, 2014 at 4:14 PM

How many blacks did you survey to come up with this answer?

Good Lt on April 24, 2014 at 4:02 PM

Schadenfreude on April 24, 2014 at 4:07 PM

Maybe Sewer Dweller and the other trolls should watch that video as well. Their brains will probably explode because a black woman actually understands what he was saying.

NotCoach on April 24, 2014 at 4:10 PM

And Ed should watch it, too.

NotCoach on April 24, 2014 at 4:15 PM

I love how a property rights and constitutional rights issue becomes all about race. Do any of you see what is happening here?

fight like a girl on April 24, 2014 at 4:06 PM

Of course we do which is why fops such as everdiso are being kicked around the room like a goat carcass in Kabul’s soccer stadium.

Bishop on April 24, 2014 at 4:15 PM

It’s my hope that Mr. Bundy’s comments do not distract from the reasons he is getting enough attention to hold press conferences in the first place.

For once, people need to stay on point with serious topics rather than allow them to be distracted from, and eventually lost in all the background noise.

usmc594ever on April 24, 2014 at 4:16 PM

Good Lt on April 24, 2014 at 4:12 PM

Bravo! Also, every democrat believes it is okay to be close friends with a real domestic terrorist, attend a church where America, whites and jews are vilified and that the law does not apply to the executive branch. We could go on and on with this …

fight like a girl on April 24, 2014 at 4:19 PM

How would society be better off if black people (at least some) were re-enslaved? I’m going to use the term “Eloi” here to refer to the miscreants in black America rather than black Americans as a whole, just to be clear.

1. The Eloi-generated crime rate would be dramatically reduced.
2. The Eloi would be off the government dole.
3. The Eloi who are currently unemployed and receiving public housing, food, money and other forms of “assistance,” would then be producing something–on farms and in factories.

But I’m not pro-slavery. This wouldn’t help black people at all. How does any of that help them become fully functioning members of society? Both they and the rest of America would be better off if NEITHER slavery NOR subsidization existed. A problem exists. Slavery is the easy way out for tyrants. Subsidization is the easy way out for politicians. The straight and narrow path is to have an uncompromising standard of liberty and responsibility, which should be applied to and expected of all human beings, regardless of their ethnicity.

RockinRickOwen on April 24, 2014 at 4:20 PM

Again, link to evidence that the people on BUNDY’s…focus…BUNDY’s land were aiming guns at federal officers. Not the guy on the public overpass, the peeps on BUNDY’s…I’ll say it again….BUNDY’s land.

And if they were, then execution of the Bundy’s is the next step? Please provide the legal logic tree to support your conclusion.

Bishop on April 24, 2014 at 4:12 PM

I’m done arguing with you.

If you think it’s a good idea to pull a gun on an officer or to be near someone who does, please have your passenger to draw her gun on the cop next time you’re stopped for speeding. And then tell us how it works out.

jim56 on April 24, 2014 at 4:24 PM

RockinRickOwen on April 24, 2014 at 4:20 PM

No. NO. No… you said monkey-pants and better off for society if Blacks were slaves…

What did monkey-pants mean?

What did you mean that society would be better off if blacks were slaves? Are you George Wallace’s Grandson?

oldroy on April 24, 2014 at 4:24 PM

I am white, and last year I donated $10 to the “United Negr0 College Fund”….Am I a racist for doing so?….Just wonderin’….

tanked59 on April 24, 2014 at 4:25 PM

Who says no crime occurred?

jim56 on April 24, 2014 at 4:04 PM

.
First, cite the LAWS which were broken by:

a) Cliven Bundy
b) His wife
c) His son, Ammon Bundy

Specifically, identify ANY felonies committed by anyone at the Bundy ranch.

Second, cite the precedents which justified the use of force (i.e. mulitple armed Federal officers, attack dogs & a SWAT team) for enforcement of a court judgement in a CIVIL case.

Third, cite ONE example of the BLM using armed Federal officers to collect unpaid FEES from any of the HUNDREDS of cases where other individuals or corporations have not paid all fees due under a civil agreement with the BLM.

PolAgnostic on April 24, 2014 at 4:26 PM

I am white, and last year I donated $10 to the “United Negr0 College Fund”….Am I a racist for doing so?….Just wonderin’….

tanked59 on April 24, 2014 at 4:25 PM

Only if you thought the United N3gro College Fund was for keeping blacks out of college.

NotCoach on April 24, 2014 at 4:27 PM

“Monkey pants” means those horrible jeans that black youth love to wear with their bottoms hanging out, forcing them to walk like chimpanzees. A lot of white kids like those too. I would strongly prefer it if nobody wore them at all.

They’re not monkeys. They’re human beings, and they rightly object to being called monkeys–and then they turn around and wear monkey pants with their bottoms hanging out. So yeah, they’re not subhuman, and I’ll voice my loud disagreement with anyone who says so, but I think anyone who defends those stupid pants as anything but subhuman is an idiot.

RockinRickOwen on April 24, 2014 at 4:29 PM

I’m done arguing with you.

If you think it’s a good idea to pull a gun on an officer or to be near someone who does, please have your passenger to draw her gun on the cop next time you’re stopped for speeding. And then tell us how it works out.

jim56 on April 24, 2014 at 4:24 PM

Your evidence of murderous intent, i.e. Clive Bundy or his wife “pulling a gun on an officer” doesn’t exist, and you have been unable to find a way out of your original comment that two citizens should be executed for what remains which is essentially tax evasion.

Of course you’re done, now you get to walk back out of the room over all that wet paint.

Bishop on April 24, 2014 at 4:30 PM

If you think it’s a good idea to pull a gun on an officer or to be near someone who does, please have your passenger to draw her gun on the cop next time you’re stopped for speeding. And then tell us how it works out.

jim56 on April 24, 2014 at 4:24 PM

But you’re ok with government snipers setting up to shoot an unarmed man if he gets in the way of other government officers confiscating his property, right?
Cuz that’s what happened at the start of this whole thing and was the reason those other armed militia guys headed for Nevada. They saw in the news another Ruby Ridge or Waco in the making, and headed there on their own.
But you’re willing to have an unarmed man (Bundy) and his wife executed on the spot because someone he doesn’t even know and doesn’t control may or may not have done something stupid up on a bridge.

dentarthurdent on April 24, 2014 at 4:31 PM

To recap the thread: 5-7 people are incapable of critical thinking and automatically assume a not-indefensible opinion is racist.

nobar on April 24, 2014 at 4:31 PM

RockinRickOwen on April 24, 2014 at 3:20 PM

Congrats rockingrickowen.! You have won the price of hotair most racist commenter of the day. Your prize is in the mail. Please continue to comment because some other commenters are doing their best of wrestling the titled of most racist commenter from you. Don’t let it happen.

Please feel free to tell us all the ways you think black people suck. Don’t hold back ok. He bye!

coolrepublica on April 24, 2014 at 4:32 PM

I am white, and last year I donated $10 to the “United Negr0 College Fund”….Am I a racist for doing so?….Just wonderin’….

tanked59 on April 24, 2014 at 4:25 PM

Dam stright – especially if you also donated to the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.

dentarthurdent on April 24, 2014 at 4:32 PM

Dam stright – especially if you also donated to the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.

dentarthurdent on April 24, 2014 at 4:32 PM

Bingo!….My check is in the mail!…

tanked59 on April 24, 2014 at 4:36 PM

Congrats rockingrickowen.! You have won the price of hotair most racist commenter of the day. Your prize is in the mail. Please continue to comment because some other commenters are doing their best of wrestling the titled of most racist commenter from you. Don’t let it happen.

Please feel free to tell us all the ways you think black people suck. Don’t hold back ok. He bye!

coolrepublica on April 24, 2014 at 4:32 PM

All good company with diso, triple, jimbo3 aka jim56, and basement dweller. All verified racists. You keep a sharp eye on them.

It’s your DUTY.

Murphy9 on April 24, 2014 at 4:37 PM

executed for what remains which is essentially tax evasion.
Bishop on April 24, 2014 at 4:30 PM

Hate to have to disagree with you – but I don’t think what he’s done even fits into tax evasion. He apparently has not paid grazing fees for awhile, during his ongoing dispute with the BLM, but that’s just failure to pay a government fee – more like letting your license plates expire.
I don’t think that’s the same as tax evasion.

dentarthurdent on April 24, 2014 at 4:38 PM

dentarthurdent on April 24, 2014 at 4:38 PM

Yah I should have put supposed tax evasion, just conveying what Jim had said earlier were the crimes for which the Bundy’s deserved to be put down.

He’s wants to have citizens executed for tax evasion. I think I’ll go have a stiff drink.

Bishop on April 24, 2014 at 4:45 PM

The author of this piece has it all wrong.

The states were recognized even by King George as sovereign. The peace treaty that ended that war mentioned each state by name and they were treated as sovereign as if each state were like France, Spain, England, or any other country. Even after the Articles of Confederation were changed and Ratified as the Constitution in 1787, the Constitution clearly indicates – and the fact of ratification by states also clearly indicate – that the states were sovereign. Hell, even the Supreme Court did not have the right to Judicial Review. The fact that abuse of the system by power hungry judges and an apathetic populace did not catch on when the Marshall Court usurped the power of the states in Mabury vs. Madison by taking upon themselves the right of judicial review does not make it right.

Therefore, if the states are sovereign, then no treaty can give land of a sovereign state to the federal government. The federal government has no right to any state land – PERIOD. That’s how it is. If a state elects to do so and a citizen is harmed by this, then the federal courts step in. Read the Constitution and what powers the courts had – not what they have usurped. A federal court gets involved in disputes between states, citizen(s) of one state vs. citizen(s) of another and NEVER between the federal government and the states. That power was usurped. So-called constitutional scholars are nothing more than people who recite case studies and precedents, thereby providing the bored listener with a litany of abuses that has lead to the present day situation we find ourselves in. Bundy does have a legal leg to stand on – it’s just that lawyers and constitutional scholars are so wrapped up in minutia they don’t realize that the Constitution is so small it does not require a PhD to understand it. And the founders clearly understood this (or most of them did). In the end, the nationalist and monarchists lost – at least in the beginning. The have now won back their victory over the ensuing time since 1787, but that certainly does not mean they are right. It means we the people were apathetic and let it happen. The remedy? Read the Declaration of Independence. As subjects of the crown I don’t doubt the Brits believed we did not have a legal leg to stand on when it came to the Stamp Tax and the ensuing removal of trial by jury to make it easier to throw those who refused to pay the tax into jail. That did not end well, did it? At least in this case, Bundy does if the federal courts did their job and pointed out that any treaty that provides a states land to the federal government, thereby hurting a citizen of that state would void the treaty, but we are way past those days now. That is why the Militia was the correct remedy this time around and will be the next time.

The Constitution was not ratified by popular referendum, nor was it ratified by a national Congress. It was ratified by each individual state. The states are sovereign. Our founders did not want centralized sovereignty in a single body. This is self-evident even without the historical facts supporting it. Power centralized in the English Parliament lead to abuses just as power today in DC leads to abuses – by both parties. We have replaced a tiny set of islands off the coast of France with a city inside our own borders.

I for one will not allow pontificators and self described lawyers and constitutional scholars to dangle bright shiny objects in front of me in an attempt to take my eye off the ball. It won’t work with me. Bundy may not be too bright, but he has a legal leg to stand on called the Constitution, and the BLM is in the wrong here.

Nope, state land is our land and every single inch should be fought over and fought over fiercely if necessary. Bundy’s statements – while repugnant – do nothing to change my mind on the matter of the BLMs lack of any right to oversee federal land WITHIN a state. Which means they have no right period as no land is part of the United States which is not in a state.

Shame on the author of this piece.

gmerits on April 24, 2014 at 4:47 PM

I’m late getting back to the thread, after my comment this morning. I’m not the least bit surprised by the number of comments.

But I was surprised to find only two replies to my morning comment .

listens2glenn on April 24, 2014 at 11:11 AM … page 4

I figured it would get me nearly the same “firestorm” Clive Bundy is getting for his remarks. Then I remembered that my comment had been “mod-qued”, and most commenters haven’t seen it.
So, being the self-serving ego-maniac that I am, I’m making reference to it, for anyone willing to ‘back track’, who hasn’t seen it, already.
At first I was going to repost a copy/pasted copy of it, then realized that would probably get “mod-qued” as well.

listens2glenn on April 24, 2014 at 4:49 PM

He’s wants to have citizens executed for tax evasion. I think I’ll go have a stiff drink.

Bishop on April 24, 2014 at 4:45 PM

Understand.
But, ya know, if he wants to summarily execute tax evaders, well maybe he’s got a good idea.
Who else do we know of that’s guilty of tax evasion?
Where do we start?

dentarthurdent on April 24, 2014 at 4:51 PM

I figured it would get me nearly the same “firestorm” Clive Bundy is getting for his remarks. Then I remembered that my comment had been “mod-qued”, and most commenters haven’t seen it.

listens2glenn on April 24, 2014 at 4:49 PM

Tell me about it. I’ve made some comments here, neither advocating slavery nor proposing that black people are anything less than human, and wow–did I get accused of being a racist.

I’ve tried to be clear, and give a point-by-point rundown of what I’m saying, and instead of a point-by-point rebuttal, it’s been mostly accusations. The best response was from someone I take to be a black Republican who pointed out that the ghetto culture isn’t black-specific. He’s right of course.

But to clarify again: which is better?

1. A system that treats humans like animals and demands they be productive,
2. Or a system that treats humans like animals, and simply subsidizes their mediocrity in exchange for votes?

Neither is good, but clearly the first choice is less traumatic for the rest of the country. The third option, the one I advocate, is

3. A system that treats humans like humans.

I know this sounds extraordinarily radical, but there you have it.

RockinRickOwen on April 24, 2014 at 4:59 PM

Understand.
But, ya know, if he wants to summarily execute tax evaders, well maybe he’s got a good idea.
Who else do we know of that’s guilty of tax evasion?
Where do we start?

dentarthurdent on April 24, 2014 at 4:51 PM

Congress and the Executive Branch???

Resist We Much on April 24, 2014 at 5:00 PM

He’s wants to have citizens executed for tax evasion. I think I’ll go have a stiff drink.

Bishop on April 24, 2014 at 4:45 PM

Understand.
But, ya know, if he wants to summarily execute tax evaders, well maybe he’s got a good idea.
Who else do we know of that’s guilty of tax evasion?
Where do we start?

dentarthurdent on April 24, 2014 at 4:51 PM

Perhaps we should start here:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-irs-bonuses-20140424,0,7198534.story

The IRS handed out a total of nearly $1.1 million in bonuses in a 27-month period to more than 1,146 employees who had been disciplined for failing to pay taxes, according to an inspector general’s report.

And while we’re at it, what should we do about Tim Geithner, Charlie Rangel, Randall “Duke” Cunningham, Tom Daschle…..
I don’t recall – did they shoot Willie Nelson for his tax problems?

dentarthurdent on April 24, 2014 at 5:03 PM

I’m done arguing with you.

If you think it’s a good idea to pull a gun on an officer or to be near someone who does, please have your passenger to draw her gun on the cop next time you’re stopped for speeding. And then tell us how it works out.

jim56 on April 24, 2014 at 4:24 PM

LOL, moving those goalposts again, eh.

jim you had your chance. You’re a moron. Almost as stupid as everdiso.

HumpBot Salvation on April 24, 2014 at 5:04 PM

Congress and the Executive Branch???

Resist We Much on April 24, 2014 at 5:00 PM

You betcha.
Careful what you lefties wish for and justify in regards to Bundy and his tax or grazing fee situation – it just might lead down a path to a place you don’t want to go…..

dentarthurdent on April 24, 2014 at 5:06 PM

He bye!

coolrepublica on April 24, 2014 at 4:32 PM

Please translate into English.

Del Dolemonte on April 24, 2014 at 5:11 PM

listens2glenn on April 24, 2014 at 4:49 PM

.
Tell me about it. I’ve made some comments here, neither advocating slavery nor proposing that black people are anything less than human, and wow–did I get accused of being a racist.

I’ve tried to be clear, and give a point-by-point rundown of what I’m saying, and instead of a point-by-point rebuttal, it’s been mostly accusations. The best response was from someone I take to be a black Republican who pointed out that the ghetto culture isn’t black-specific. He’s right of course.

But to clarify again: which is better?

1. A system that treats humans like animals and demands they be productive,
2. Or a system that treats humans like animals, and simply subsidizes their mediocrity in exchange for votes?
.
Neither is good, but clearly the first choice is less traumatic for the rest of the country. The third option, the one I advocate, is
.
3. A system that treats humans like humans.

I know this sounds extraordinarily radical, but there you have it.

RockinRickOwen on April 24, 2014 at 4:59 PM

.
I’m very sorry, but that #3 option is much too radical.

It takes all of the control away from the elite, and gives FREEDOM to the “commoners”.

Not sure how you thought that would actually work . . . . . you’re obviously a right-wing extremist, and we ain’t got no time, for your kind.

listens2glenn on April 24, 2014 at 5:24 PM

Ed, please look at this comment:

“I saw them coons once chilling on their porch when i drove by – don’t they know that they were freer pickin cotton and getting tortured at their owner’s whim? Can’t we at least discuss this important and rational question?”

– signed Mr.I.M.Notarascist

everdiso on April 24, 2014 at 1:03 PM

slickwillie2001 on April 24, 2014 at 5:26 PM

Classic example of projection. wow.

Murphy9 on April 24, 2014 at 5:28 PM

So, where are the “It’s the New York Times!” fools now?

corona79 on April 24, 2014 at 5:30 PM

Phil Robertson & Cliven Bundy: Keeping the stupid on the front page!

thejackal on April 24, 2014 at 6:00 PM

Sounds like Bundy said right out what a lot of other people think. Personally, I don’t think blacks have benefited greatly by from government patronage, but the Democrats certainly have. They seem to view blacks as having the purpose in life of keeping them in office. Government welfare is an oxymoron. It’s bad for everybody.

flataffect on April 24, 2014 at 6:20 PM

thejackal on April 24, 2014 at 6:00 PM

To me it’s refreshing to see people on the front page who say what they mean and mean what they say.

knutsandvolts on April 24, 2014 at 6:26 PM

Conservatives didn’t buy the “I’m just asking questions” when 9/11 Truthers used that excuse; they shouldn’t accept it from Bundy either.

Not analogous Ed. Bundy is “just asking questions” about a perfectly legitimate hypothetical to ponder relating to a policy matter — which, ahem, you yourself do all the time on this site Ed.

Truthers are “just asking questions” about whether something that clearly happened in the past actually happened.

Not the same thing at all.

If Bundy had “just asked questions” about whether slavery existed at all, that would be analogous. But of course he didn’t.

You are all kinds of wrong on this matter Ed.

WhatSlushfund on April 24, 2014 at 6:33 PM

“I want to tell you one more thing I know about the Negro,” he said. Mr. Bundy recalled driving past a public-housing project in North Las Vegas, “and in front of that government house the door was usually open and the older people and the kids — and there is always at least a half a dozen people sitting on the porch — they didn’t have nothing to do. They didn’t have nothing for their kids to do. They didn’t have nothing for their young girls to do.

“And because they were basically on government subsidy, so now what do they do?” he asked. “They abort their young children, they put their young men in jail, because they never learned how to pick cotton. And I’ve often wondered, are they better off as slaves, picking cotton and having a family life and doing things, or are they better off under government subsidy? They didn’t get no more freedom. They got less freedom.”

Alright. Let’s cover a few things here. First, Bundy’s statements do not call blacks inherently inferior, nor do they call for the persecution of blacks. Thus, I’ll refrain from calling him racist.

That said, his rhetoric is at the very least, grossly stupid. Since blacks used to be called negroes (which was not considered disparaging when it was uttered back when he was growing up, and has only gained that connotation over time), I’ll let that slide.

Bundy is correct about mass abortion in the black community. However, the black community doesn’t “put their young men in jail.” Rather, young black men, of their own free will, disproportionately commit crimes that land them in jail. That is a serious social problem. However, the reason that has arisen is NOT because they never “learned how to pick cotton,” which is an asinine statement, and evokes a cultural memory of blacks being enslaved and working on plantations.

Now, as for whether or not blacks are better off under slavery or now, the answer is unequivocally that they’re better off now. Yes, the collapse of the black family is lamentable and needs to be countered. Nonetheless, blacks have legal protection, equal rights, and even institutional prejudices that work in their favor (e.g. affirmative action). That makes them better off by leaps and bounds than they were under slavery. When you have the ability to move freely, the ability to earn your own money, to be treated significantly better, vote for political representation, you have significantly more freedom than a slave.

Stoic Patriot on April 24, 2014 at 6:37 PM

dentarthurdent on April 24, 2014 at 4:51 PM

I read they give bonuses for tax evasion if you work for the IRS.

Cindy Munford on April 24, 2014 at 6:49 PM

I read they give bonuses for tax evasion if you work for the IRS.

Cindy Munford on April 24, 2014 at 6:49 PM

Well, let’s face it – if you can successfully evade taxes yourself, it shows you know the system well enough to be a good IRS agent – right?
Makes sense to me….

dentarthurdent on April 24, 2014 at 6:52 PM

@ Stoic, he also said in the interview that he didn’t think slavery was good, or a lack of freedom. He didn’t want the country to go back to lack of civil rights for blacks or Hispanics (paraphrasing here).

RockinRickOwen on April 24, 2014 at 7:23 PM

I read they give bonuses for tax evasion if you work for the IRS.

Cindy Munford on April 24, 2014 at 6:49 PM

.
Well, let’s face it – if you can successfully evade taxes yourself, it shows you know the system well enough to be a good IRS agent – right?
Makes sense to me….

dentarthurdent on April 24, 2014 at 6:52 PM

.
“It takes a thief to catch a thief” . . . . . . . . . that’s what NASCAR did with Gary Nelson back in 1992, anyway.
NASCAR racing was never the same for me, after that . . : (

listens2glenn on April 24, 2014 at 8:03 PM

@ Stoic, he also said in the interview that he didn’t think slavery was good, or a lack of freedom. He didn’t want the country to go back to lack of civil rights for blacks or Hispanics (paraphrasing here).

RockinRickOwen on April 24, 2014 at 7:23 PM

And I’m going ten rouds with this nonsense with Captain Duncil over in the other thread. Willfully throwing freedom in the garbage to the point past all insanity doesn’t make slavery good.

LawfulGood on April 24, 2014 at 8:03 PM

Nothing he said was even remotely racist at all.

And besides, it wouldn’t matter if he was racist.

nottakingsides on April 24, 2014 at 8:32 PM

Wow….

Does this thread beat a Sarah Palin thread..?

:)

Electrongod on April 24, 2014 at 8:36 PM

Don’t bring the Palin clown into this.

nottakingsides on April 24, 2014 at 8:37 PM

nottakingsides on April 24, 2014 at 8:37 PM

LOL….

Electrongod on April 24, 2014 at 8:38 PM

This story smelled bad from day one. Didn’t know it was this rank.

evergreen on April 24, 2014 at 8:42 PM

This story smelled bad from day one. Didn’t know it was this rank.

evergreen on April 24, 2014 at 8:42 PM

Everyone is in this story is a loser. Best stay away.

thebrokenrattle on April 24, 2014 at 8:55 PM

jim56 on April 24, 2014 at 4:24 PM

You lied.

Bmore on April 24, 2014 at 9:02 PM

He’s wants to have citizens executed for tax evasion. I think I’ll go have a stiff drink.
Bishop on April 24, 2014 at 4:45 PM

No kidding… The thought that anyone thinks that’s reasonable makes me ill.

Understand.
But, ya know, if he wants to summarily execute tax evaders, well maybe he’s got a good idea.
Who else do we know of that’s guilty of tax evasion?
Where do we start?
dentarthurdent on April 24, 2014 at 4:51 PM
Perhaps we should start here:
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-irs-bonuses-20140424,0,7198534.story
The IRS handed out a total of nearly $1.1 million in bonuses in a 27-month period to more than 1,146 employees who had been disciplined for failing to pay taxes, according to an inspector general’s report.

Um… Go read my responses to that thread here on Hot Air, and the terminology problems with that article. And expect a knock from TIGTA…

And while we’re at it, what should we do about Tim Geithner, Charlie Rangel, Randall “Duke” Cunningham, Tom Daschle…..
I don’t recall – did they shoot Willie Nelson for his tax problems?
dentarthurdent on April 24, 2014 at 5:03 PM

…You’re off the deep end. It’s money, not blood, and should be paid for in time (prison) and fines, not blood.

You’re pretty damned sick.

Asurea on April 24, 2014 at 10:37 PM

I read they give bonuses for tax evasion if you work for the IRS.
Cindy Munford on April 24, 2014 at 6:49 PM

Or, y’know, you could look up actual information. Section 1203(b) violations are automatic dismissals. 2,199 employees were fired from the IRS in 2013 for non-compliance. The only way to be delinquent and still employed is to have an active, current installment agreement, meaning they’re making monthly payments and having any refunds from withholding, etc., automatically taken and applied to the debt. Defaulting on such an agreement is, in and of itself, a firing offense.

Asurea on April 24, 2014 at 10:48 PM

Dear sweet jesus.
everdiso on April 24, 2014 at 3:04 PM

Jesus wasn’t sweet, and he would have included you in either the “brood of vipers” or “whitewashed sepulcher” categories.

Nutstuyu on April 24, 2014 at 11:28 PM

I love how a property rights and constitutional rights issue becomes all about race. Do any of you see what is happening here?

fight like a girl on April 24, 2014 at 4:06 PM

No they don’t, which is why they deserve it.

eh on April 25, 2014 at 1:08 AM

Palin-Bundy 2016! Because well ‘Merika!!!

Bradky on April 25, 2014 at 4:08 AM

Even Hannity has gotten off his knees in the Bundy worship contest.

Bradky on April 25, 2014 at 4:09 AM

fight like a girl on April 24, 2014 at 4:06 PM

He is expected be accountable for taxes just as the IRS workers who owe back taxes are??
Or perhaps the kamikazes of the pure conservative movement think following an idiot like him over the cliff is patriotic?

Bradky on April 25, 2014 at 4:11 AM


Nearly 1000 comments and this thread isn’t in Top Picks?

What’s up with that, Ed?

Bitter Clinger on April 24, 2014 at 2:50 PM

I think Ed and Hot Air want to “downplay” this issue.

TarheelBen on April 24, 2014 at 2:58 PM

Whomever runs the HotAir Facebook account sure doesn’t.

Hawkins1701 on April 24, 2014 at 4:14 PM

I think they all thought they could racist! cow us into silence.

astonerii on April 25, 2014 at 9:02 AM

Nearly 1000 comments and this thread isn’t in Top Picks?

What’s up with that, Ed?

Bitter Clinger on April 24, 2014 at 2:50 PM

I think Ed and Hot Air want to “downplay” this issue.

TarheelBen on April 24, 2014 at 2:58 PM

Whomever runs the HotAir Facebook account sure doesn’t.

Hawkins1701 on April 24, 2014 at 4:14 PM

I think they all thought they could racist! cow us into silence.

astonerii on April 25, 2014 at 9:03 AM

The bed wetter thinks this is about taxes?

fking moron.

Murphy9 on April 25, 2014 at 9:05 AM

Generational.

Bmore on April 25, 2014 at 9:49 AM

Bradky on April 25, 2014 at 4:08 AM

Bradky on April 25, 2014 at 4:09 AM

Bradky on April 25, 2014 at 4:11 AM

.
AWRIGHT ! . . . . . . way to sneak-in under-the-radar.

Can you imagine if you had to face some confrontation ?

listens2glenn on April 25, 2014 at 11:01 AM

listens2glenn on April 25, 2014 at 11:01 AM

Sorry I don’t haunt all the threads 18 hours a day for validation of my self worth. Lots of more important things going on – it is fun to get up early before work and look at the hysterics and hyperventilation that so many HA commenters have at every.single.piece.of.news…..

Bradky on April 25, 2014 at 12:49 PM

Actually, I would care if Bundy said something that is actually racist. Complaining about government intrusion pales in comparison to denying people basic human rights or human dignity.

Now, I can’t resist that this is the effect of what he said, except that he “wondered”.

I would care if Bundy had put money to some The Benefits Slavery Foundation or something like that. Simply running your mouth and being addled and “wondering” allows me to give him the BoD.

“But that’s racist!! You don’t give Obama the benefit of the doubt!!!!”

Then you’ve never read my posts defusing reaction to an Obama speech hubbub. I see Obama as a crypto-Marxist–it’s got nothing to do with his race. I see the “Pen and the Phone” and the GM takeover as government overreach, that is not about “You know them black people and their government overreach!!”

I played both sides of the “You didn’t build that” controversy. Seeing what Obama could have been intending to say, and plainly explaining to liberals that by the rules of a “Bush gaffe” he did say what conservatives were arguing he said.

I’m good at argument. I don’t need every misstep, every “Freudian slip” or to commandeer anybody’s words against them. The substance of what Obama says–not the incidental phrasings (“My Muslim faith”) are enough for me. When people have to sniff out meanings, I don’t see that they have that much confidence or ability in actually making their point, and simply grab at any opportunity that appears to them.

Axeman on April 25, 2014 at 1:18 PM

Bundy’s comments.

There is a small nugget of truth in there (that dependence upon the Federal Government causes problems) however…

Yeah, but it’s kind of like somebody crapping out a penny: Too little value and too much crap to go through.

Axeman on April 25, 2014 at 1:24 PM

Sure didn’t take much for the libs to move the narrative to a
smokescreen called racism with the spineless and white guilt repubs on defense. That’s the real disgusting smell of all of this.

Texyank on April 25, 2014 at 3:54 PM

listens2glenn on April 25, 2014 at 11:01 AM

.
Sorry I don’t haunt all the threads 18 hours a day for validation of my self worth. Lots of more important things going on – it is fun to get up early before work and look at the hysterics and hyperventilation that so many HA commenters have at every.single.piece.of.news…..

Bradky
on April 25, 2014 at 12:49 PM

.
I’m sorry … I couldn’t hear you, for all of the hyperventilating, I’m doing.
.
It’ll stop eventually.

listens2glenn on April 25, 2014 at 9:23 PM

Actually, I would care if Bundy said something that is actually racist. Complaining about government intrusion pales in comparison to denying people basic human rights or human dignity.

Axeman on April 25, 2014 at 1:18 PM

Oh please. Short of suggesting the return of the creative uses of white sheets, crosses and kerosene to keep certain groups in line with a separate and (rather cruel) arbitrary ruleset, Bundy is as much a threat to ‘human rights’ as Obama is to Putin.

LawfulGood on April 27, 2014 at 10:31 AM

Bundy doesn’t have a case because the federal government is able to “own” land. The State cannot “own” anything any more than a violent person “owns” what he wants keep from someone else’s use.

Bundy is an idiot, no doubt, but he’s not grazing on “federal land”. He’s grazing on unowned land, and by that fact, he is homesteading it. If the federal government wants to own the land, it should incorporate (like the rest of us) and put the land to use.

spmat on April 27, 2014 at 5:23 PM

“I saw them coons once chilling on their porch when i drove by – signed Mr. everdiso on April 24, 2014 at 1:03 PM

Ed?

Akzed on April 24, 2014 at 1:15 PM

It’s almost like ditso is black and HA has an affirmative action program.

slickwillie2001 on April 29, 2014 at 7:36 PM

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