A Trojan Horse on amnesty in the defense bill?

posted at 10:01 am on April 19, 2014 by Jazz Shaw

I’m not sure if this is one of the things that John Boehner was talking about when he said he was hell bent on passing some immigration legislation, but there is more controversy surrounding the upcoming defense authorization bill on a related subject. Over at The Corner, Mark Krikorian raises the alarm over a meeting which just took place between two unlikely figures in the immigration debate.

In related news, President Obama is meeting with the National Commander of the American Legion this morning. Ordinarily, that would mean little, but the meeting comes just days after the Legion came out against a plan to amnesty illegal aliens who join the military. The number of people who would benefit from such an amnesty is miniscule (and there’s already a statutory means of allowing them to enlist), so why would the president take time out to summon the head of the Legion for a tiny, redundant immigration provision?

Here’s the article where the American Legion comes out against this policy. It’s fairly obvious that the Legion’s leadership isn’t trying to step on the fingers of anyone who serves, but simply wants to keep the two issues each in their own space.

“The NDAA needs to stand alone, and I think attaching an issue as contentious and complex as immigration and recruitment policy would only stall the NDAA,” said John Stovall, director of the American Legion’s national security division. “Immigration policy needs to be debated on its own outside the debate of NDAA.”

I’ve written about the pros and cons of granting citizenship to those who serve in the military here before, and it’s clearly a topic which generates some controversy. But whether you support it or not, Krikorian raises the point that perhaps the “must pass” defense spending authorization bill isn’t the place to ram it through. And he’s already hearing from some insiders on the hill that plans are afoot which could turn it into a larger headache. (Emphasis mine.)

Because it’s a Trojan Horse — if it’s included in the must-pass defense authorization bill when it’s sent to the Senate, Harry Reid can expand it into a larger amnesty confident in the knowledge that it would have to be passed. I’ve been told by a Republican House member that the Democrat (and, presumably, “hellbent” House leadership) plan is to add the entire DREAM Act to the defense bill once it gets to the Senate

I may still be living in denial, but that simply doesn’t make sense. I understand why Boehner is gauging the political realities of getting something done on immigration this year. (And more importantly, during the glide path to November 2016) But I’m expecting to see some specific, individual pieces of legislation dealing with stronger border security, E-verify or tougher penalties for employers of illegals. I can’t believe that the House leadership would even consider backing inclusion of the entire DREAM Act in the defense bill.

Either way, it sets the stage to have some interesting questions answered. First, the concern of a Trojan Horse here is real, so we’ll need to find out if the GOP is smart enough to not allow that door to be cracked open on the NDAA. And second – whether it happens here or in some stand-alone legislation – we’ll find out just how far the House is willing to go down this road in the name of getting their names on something with the word immigration on it. But it’s going to start yet another revolt among the conservative base if something like the DREAM Act makes it’s way through, and this one may start a fire too big for Boehner to put out.


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2

MaiDee on April 19, 2014 at 12:57 PM

Treasonous scumhags and scumbags

Schadenfreude on April 19, 2014 at 1:00 PM

I should add that it’s the penultimate irony that the very reason that federal immigration legislation was designed, drafted, and passed into law was to prevent those who would use foreign labor from preying on American citizens and to prevent foreign nationals from draining the resources of American communities… and that includes jobs, medical care, education resources, and taxing our local justice system and social services.

Federal immigration was never intended or designed to protect or service illegal aliens. It was designed and intended to protect American citizens and communities.

thatsafactjack on April 19, 2014 at 12:07 PM

Well said. And that points out WHY the entire idea and process of “amnesty” is a failed idea. We as a nation already can see the damaging effects of such; and among it’s most damaging effects is, amnesty has established the destructive notion that it’s beneficial, that it’s an obligatory process.

Lourdes on April 19, 2014 at 1:00 PM

Or their children or other family members are. WE also need to end Chain Migration. Just stop it, if only for a decade or so.

BUT THE POINT MUST BE a focus of what is most important as to priorities on U.S. citizens who are needy or floundering, whatever.

Instead, illegal aliens and their relations are made out to be lost kittens who the nation “must feed” and it’s a corruption of the concept of charity.

Lourdes on April 19, 2014 at 12:47 PM

I agree on stopping the Chain Migration. It’s been an insanity from the beginning.
There must be a set date to end this and give us time to balance out these effects.

The American Citizens are being replaced by the Illegals in importance, whether in employment, college & certainly the financial burden to support our own families but illegals also.

Corruption of charity, a very good description of it!!

bluefox on April 19, 2014 at 1:01 PM

and this one may start a fire too big for Boehner to put out.

Let It Burn.

Theophile on April 19, 2014 at 1:14 PM

bluefox on April 19, 2014 at 12:28 PM

I worked at an engineering/manufacturing firm in Dallas in the mid-90′s, and it was true then, too.

Midas on April 19, 2014 at 12:46 PM

Didn’t know it went back that far. Now, I think it’s worse, since Zuckerberg (Facebook) is pouring money in everywhere, Chamber of Commerce. Of course, Bill Gates too & Silicon Valley.

They will hire a foreign worker over an American time & time again.
Their lie about not being able to find American Tech worker infuriates me as it does the Tech workers.

bluefox on April 19, 2014 at 1:15 PM

At that point the only thing a patriot can do is vote in the worst of the politicians to explode the system quicker. Let it burn.
If this amnesty passes it is time to let it burn.

JimBob on April 19, 2014 at 10:13 AM

Brave words, but foolish plans.
Remember 2012? We heard the same slogans then – F the country, if they don’t vote for (usually Ron Paul), Let it burn!

Well, now President Nero is fiddling, while the world burns. We’ve lost a dozen or more allies to his neglect or malice, and more are on the way. The cost in blood worldwide is bad; the cost to our reputation is incalculable. For the next 50 years, we will be unable to make any solid alliances with any country; and when we are attacked (and we will be, since our enemies have been strengthened), who will bother to help us?

Our debt has just about doubled, and there’s no end to its growth. The markets realize that, and soon our interest rates will return to normal or more. When our interest payments soar, we’ll go bankrupt – or go into debt slavery, to our adversaries.
And the locusts pour in over the border, to take jobs away from Americans who need them, by working at sub-minimum wages. Now, if you pay an illegal $5, but an American $7.25, you’re paying a 2.25 premium for an American. Raise the minimum wage to $10.10, and you’re paying twice the price for an American. THIS ENCOURAGES THE EMPLOYMENT OF ILLEGALS, AT THE COST OF AMERICAN JOBS!

No. The fan has been hit, the fire is raging out of control. If we want to have anything left to rebuild with, we must STOP IT NOW!

ReggieA on April 19, 2014 at 1:16 PM

AMNESTY is the defining issue or litmus test if you will. I WILL NOT be voting for ANYBODY who supports AMNESTY for Illegal Aliens…..PERIOD!!!!!

Realdemocrat1 on April 19, 2014 at 1:18 PM

The entire Dream Act to the defense bill….and then pass it…and expect very little reaction? My Legion hall dislikes pols across the board, I can guarantee about 200 votes lost right there.

Bishop on April 19, 2014 at 1:18 PM

bluefox on April 19, 2014 at 12:46 PM

Let them all go to Hell. They equally ruin the land. Let the Ds own it all. If there’s anything left in the ashes, we’ll rebuild. If not, well then…

Schadenfreude on April 19, 2014 at 12:48 PM

Well, we’d at least get rid of the R traitors.

bluefox on April 19, 2014 at 1:20 PM

No mercenaries, please, Mr., Boehner:

The idea of offering American citizenship to illegal aliens
if they serve in our military is morally bankrupt.

1. It is an INCENTIVE for more future illegal immigration.

2. It is morally wrong to encourage foreign nationals to risk their lives for our country, much like the French Foreign Legion.

3. There are serious security and loyalty concerns giving classified access to persons whose previous backgrounds are a complete unknown, and which can never be verified.

And now this plan may be used to pass a giant amnesty in the Senate.

Boehner and the rest of the open-borders appeasers will kill this country.

fred5678 on April 19, 2014 at 1:21 PM

Bravo ReggieA!!!

tstar44 on April 19, 2014 at 1:25 PM

TIME IS NEAR FOR TRUE AMERICANS TO RE-ISSUE THE DECLARATION OF INDEPENDENCE.

“BEWARE OF AN ANGRY AMERICA”

silk1947 on April 19, 2014 at 1:27 PM

Any politician who supports AMNESTY for Illegal Aliens in any form WILL NOT be getting our votes, volunteering, phone banking, or precinct walking. WE will be finished with them……..LET IT BURN!!!!! LET IT BURN!!!!!

Realdemocrat1 on April 19, 2014 at 1:29 PM

These assumptions are cruel, inaccurate and just wrong. So courting “one ethnicity” by feeling there must be amnesty offered is also cruel, inaccurate and just wrong to everyone else.

Lourdes on April 19, 2014 at 12:51 PM

Not only those but we have other “Special” classes of people.
I asked another commenter a week or so ago, what they lacked that the U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights didn’t already give them.
No answer was forthcoming after two days.

This dividing the people is just as you say, whether it’s by race or any other identity class.

How about a special class for blondes? LOL

bluefox on April 19, 2014 at 1:30 PM

No. The fan has been hit, the fire is raging out of control. If we want to have anything left to rebuild with, we must STOP IT NOW!

ReggieA on April 19, 2014 at 1:16 PM

The RINOs, who’re really the DIABLOs (Democrats in all but label) have been saying this, forever.

NO MAS!!!

Schadenfreude on April 19, 2014 at 1:30 PM

WE will be finished with them……..LET IT BURN!!!!! LET IT BURN!!!!!

Realdemocrat1 on April 19, 2014 at 1:29 PM

This, if you want them to get the message, and if you want to save the land and her legal children. Otherwise, go to Hell.

Schadenfreude on April 19, 2014 at 1:32 PM

MaiDee on April 19, 2014 at 12:57 PM

Prostitutes work for me.

bluefox on April 19, 2014 at 1:32 PM

Compare the Ukraine citizens with Russian ties and what they are doing to let that country be absorbed back into Russia and compare it to what could happen here. Especially when it is a crime to be pro-American.

Cindy Munford on April 19, 2014 at 1:34 PM

MaiDee on April 19, 2014 at 12:57 PM

Treasonous scumhags and scumbags

Schadenfreude on April 19, 2014 at 1:00 PM

Maybe we can fit prostitute in your description, you know, a combo:-)

bluefox on April 19, 2014 at 1:35 PM

Compare the Ukraine citizens with Russian ties and what they are doing to let that country be absorbed back into Russia and compare it to what could happen here. Especially when it is a crime to be pro-American.

Cindy Munford on April 19, 2014 at 1:34 PM

If France, about 20% of those in the French Army are muzzies. It makes France even more useless than usual in any future conflict with a muzz country.

slickwillie2001 on April 19, 2014 at 1:40 PM

What is it with Republicans who are so eager to pass amnesty? All this achieves is signing up millions of people who will vote for Democrats, not to mention rewarding people for violating the rule of law. This is a lose-lose for Republicans!

musicman88 on April 19, 2014 at 2:00 PM

Save me a seat, will you? If obeying Scripture sends one to Hell, well, there we go….

unclesmrgol on April 19, 2014 at 12:26 PM

The Scriptures say to not mistreat immigrants. But I can not find anywhere in the Scriptures that God and/or Jesus advocates for making immigrants citizens. There are some gray areas around “adopting” immigrants as servants and making them part of your family to be cared for as a convert. If that is what you are referring to, how many immigrants have you taken in as your family?

dominigan on April 19, 2014 at 2:14 PM

Oh, they can pass DREAM — as long as the requirement for citizenship for the pathetic screaming DREAMers is the immediate incarceration of their parents for as long as their children were in the country illegally.

You want citizenship? Mamacita goes to the labor camp where she can work off the taxes you and she sucked out of the system.

northdallasthirty on April 19, 2014 at 2:30 PM

Can someone explain to me how this works? Even enlisted grunts in the Army need to complete an SF86 and be eligible for a secret clearance these days. How can illegals enlist and process?

uatu1878 on April 19, 2014 at 2:34 PM

100% of Dems Support Amnesty!
20% of Repubs Support Amnesty
BUT 100% of Repub Leadership Push Amnesty!

The number of House Republicans that support amnesty has got to be like 20%. That’s all (they got 30% of Republicans in the senate, but that’s less representative of the people and was a Rubio pushed fluke). 20%, but why is 100% of the Republican leadership on board for amnesty?

Yeah, and 100% of the Dems are for amnesty.

100% of the Dems. That should tell us something. Why should the Dems be all for a country effectively without borders? Not even a single Dem is against letting millions upon millions of lawbreakers become citizens? Something is upside down with the Republican leadership. Why can’t we boot Boehner and Cantor and Ryan out of office?!

anotherJoe on April 19, 2014 at 2:34 PM

Yeah, but just think of all those millions of new Republican voters!

/s

Dr. ZhivBlago on April 19, 2014 at 2:42 PM

Liberals and RINOS laugh at us when Illegal Aliens kill we Americans on our own soil……

Realdemocrat1 on April 19, 2014 at 3:07 PM

Just to put things in context, here are the wedge issues of the day:
a) Immigration
b) Abortion (re-extending the right of life to unborn children)
c) Healthcare
d) The Economy
e) Big Government (corrupted healthcare, financial, housing, educational marketplaces; lack of adherence to Constitution; abuse of power)
f) The Deficit
g) The Right To Vote (maximizing voter participation; preventing diminuation/discount of votes through fraud)
h) Defense
i) The Budget (or lack thereof)
j) Taxation (fair share)
k) The Bill of Rights (1st and 2nd Amendments)

That’s quite a bit of stuff you are throwing over just to make a point on (a).

unclesmrgol on April 19, 2014 at 12:22 PM

The above is directed to the LIB faction of 3rd-party-Dem-party-no-show-voters, on the theory that losing more GOP congress members means the end of all conservative gains on these issues. However, all but abortion, defense, and the Bill of Rights are so intricately tied to immigration that unrestricted amnesty will torpedo any conservative gains anyway, and the same may be true for those three also.

AesopFan on April 19, 2014 at 3:28 PM

So, just for the benefit of readers who would like a track record upon which to judge a pundit’s accuracy and common sense, how many of Krikorian’s other warnings of impending amnesty bills have come true?

I know he was right about the Gang of 8 bill, so that’s one. Now, how many warnings of his turned out to be false alarms?

Adjoran on April 19, 2014 at 3:36 PM

The current law allowing service members to become citizens works well and is popular within the military. But, since it isn’t broken I guess we must fix it. Another attempted suicide by Republicans.

chileristras on April 19, 2014 at 11:21 AM

To the degree that is true, we now have a mercenary military.

VorDaj on April 19, 2014 at 3:48 PM

Lourdes on April 19, 2014 at 1:00 PM

Well said!

tomshup on April 19, 2014 at 3:49 PM

Know full well that Boehner, McCain, Graham, Booooosh, Liberals, and all RINOS support the collectives on the sidewalks:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeM6K3tjuL0

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctIn52x_Thk

Realdemocrat1 on April 19, 2014 at 4:07 PM

I have no problem adding the Dream Act to the bill. In fact, I have no problem with giving those who serve our nation the benefits of citizenship provided they are honorably discharged.

There is no space between me and Abraham Lincoln on this issue. After all, immigrants without citizenship made up nearly one quarter of the United States Army during the Civil War. Indeed, there are already laws on the books which speed up the Citizenship process for immigrant service members. I doubt that the American Legion is working to have such laws stricken from the books.

I fail to understand how fellow conservatives, who put much weight on individual rights, can be against something which moves people from an underclass in which they cannot participate in society into a position where they can fully do so. Ditto for the Christians and Jews here — for both the Old and New Testaments are is quite clear on the treatment we are to accord the foreigner among us. I can see Muslims insisting on second class citizenship, for that is one of the policies outlined in the Koran, but not those who hold to Scripture.

unclesmrgol on April 19, 2014 at 11:58 AM

This post raises some issues worth discussing because it is good practice to have your arguments among friends, so that you can deploy them among enemies.

There are a number of straw men, some erroneous assumptions, a little bit of ad hominem tu quoque, and a theological confrontation.

Sentences 1 and 2 are separable: we can and already do give privileges to those who served honorably in the armed forces, but far more than that is included in the DREAM acts; the pros and cons have been hashed out in many forums in the last few years. Regardless of the merits or lack thereof in the Act itself, sliding it into the Defense Authorization undercuts any debate and should not be acceptable.

I agree with Lincoln also, in that he rewarded legal immigrants for their service in the Union Army as a practical policy matter. However, did he extend that offer to illegal immigrants, whatever that term might have encompassed at the time? Let me know if you can find any data on that more relevant point.
Arguing for immigration policy today on the basis of immigration policy in the past is simply not a valid comparison, because of the radical changes in social welfare (government dole) and employment issues (unions, wage regulations, etc).

Conservatives, who put much weight on individual rights, are generally not against moving people from an underclass in which they cannot participate in society into a position where they can fully do so — they are against rewarding law-breakers and their enablers. The citizens of the US are also individuals with rights, which have in many cases been eroded by the support for illegal immigration and the back-door amnesty of pretending they are not what they are.

There is a lot of middle ground between “kicking them all out” (which doesn’t have strong popular support even among conservatives) and “giving them everything in the house in perpetuity”.

I can’t speak for all the Christians and Jews here, but both the Old and New Testaments are indeed quite clear on the treatment we are to accord the foreigner among us: they are entitled to all the protections of the laws, but must abide by the commandments and responsibilities that go along with those laws.
(I point out that neither ancient Israel nor Roman-occupied Judea nor Primitive Christian congregations nor post-Constantinian State Churches were quasi-democratic social welfare republics, which vitiates any supposed comparisons. More to the point Judeo-Christian concepts of charity are individual and congregational, not governmental.)

And if you think Islamic nations would respect even the second-class rights” of illegal immigrants into their territories, you really haven’t been paying attention.

AesopFan on April 19, 2014 at 4:07 PM

AesopFan on April 19, 2014 at 4:07 PM

Well said.

Midas on April 19, 2014 at 4:20 PM

Watch the Liberals perform their RACIAL PROFILING right on the air:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o33ksx9Fzqg

Realdemocrat1 on April 19, 2014 at 4:20 PM

chileristras on April 19, 2014 at 11:21 AM

Who cares? The wars are fought to be lost anyway.

Schadenfreude on April 19, 2014 at 4:21 PM

Just to put things in context, here are the wedge issues of the day:
a) Immigration
b) Abortion (re-extending the right of life to unborn children)
c) Healthcare
d) The Economy
e) Big Government (corrupted healthcare, financial, housing, educational marketplaces; lack of adherence to Constitution; abuse of power)
f) The Deficit
g) The Right To Vote (maximizing voter participation; preventing diminuation/discount of votes through fraud)
h) Defense
i) The Budget (or lack thereof)
j) Taxation (fair share)
k) The Bill of Rights (1st and 2nd Amendments)

That’s quite a bit of stuff you are throwing over just to make a point on (a).

unclesmrgol on April 19, 2014 at 12:22 PM

Interesting that you put immigration there first, when in reality, it is probably at the bottom of that list – (k) rather than (a) in terms of importance in reality, and in the perception of voters right now.

That’s quite a bit of stuff YOU are throwing over just to make a point on (k).

Midas on April 19, 2014 at 4:22 PM

I fail to understand how fellow conservatives, who put much weight on individual rights, can be against something which moves people from an underclass in which they cannot participate in society into a position where they can fully do so. Ditto for the Christians and Jews here — for both the Old and New Testaments are is quite clear on the treatment we are to accord the foreigner among us. I can see Muslims insisting on second class citizenship, for that is one of the policies outlined in the Koran, but not those who hold to Scripture.

unclesmrgol on April 19, 2014 at 11:58 AM

Schadenfreude on April 19, 2014 at 4:23 PM

Just to put things in context, here are the wedge issues of the day:
a) Immigration
b) Abortion (re-extending the right of life to unborn children)
c) Healthcare
d) The Economy
e) Big Government (corrupted healthcare, financial, housing, educational marketplaces; lack of adherence to Constitution; abuse of power)
f) The Deficit
g) The Right To Vote (maximizing voter participation; preventing diminuation/discount of votes through fraud)
h) Defense
i) The Budget (or lack thereof)
j) Taxation (fair share)
k) The Bill of Rights (1st and 2nd Amendments)

That’s quite a bit of stuff you are throwing over just to make a point on (a).

unclesmrgol on April 19, 2014 at 12:22 PM

Economy
Jobs, jobs, jobs, legal workers and taxpayers
Energy
Security

Wake up and quit being a liar.

Schadenfreude on April 19, 2014 at 4:25 PM

And if you think Islamic nations would respect even the second-class rights” of illegal immigrants into their territories, you really haven’t been paying attention.

AesopFan on April 19, 2014 at 4:07 PM

Britain today

Schadenfreude on April 19, 2014 at 4:26 PM

The Scriptures say to not mistreat immigrants. But I can not find anywhere in the Scriptures that God and/or Jesus advocates for making immigrants citizens.

dominigan

I love it when folks bring up “scripture” to defend illegal immigration, because last I checked, even Heaven has a gate and rules for entry, lol.

I know he was right about the Gang of 8 bill, so that’s one. Now, how many warnings of his turned out to be false alarms?

Adjoran

Pretty much none of them. Even the bill in question he’s warning about now has been confirmed by those who put it together. Politicians backing down due to public backlash once news of their plans get out isn’t a “false alarm”. What would you rather have happen, folks remain calm and quiet until AFTER something is passed and it’s too late?

xblade on April 19, 2014 at 4:27 PM

I understand why Boehner is gauging the political realities of getting something done on immigration this year.

If the GOP thinks that they have a better chance of winning enough Latino votes that would more that offset the millions of conservative votes lost, then the country is in great peril and the RINOs would have put the last nail in our coffin.

cajunpatriot on April 19, 2014 at 4:34 PM

Democrats want illegals here so they’ll get their votes and stay in power. The GOP elite are willing to sellout to big business, who want illegals here for cheap labor. I’m convinced there is no difference between these two and Americans are squeezed in between.
This top to bottom corruption will kill this country.

Obamalies on April 19, 2014 at 4:41 PM

The country is bleeding out already – why is the GOP in a hurry to open another major artery on both itself and the country?

Midas

That is the million dollar question. It’s not for votes, it’s not for the good of the country, and it’s not really for the money either, because there are a number of less destructive things they could do for money.

If the real reason ever gets out, I suspect things will get real ugly real fast.

xblade on April 19, 2014 at 4:50 PM

That’s quite a bit of stuff YOU are throwing over just to make a point on (k).

Midas on April 19, 2014 at 4:22 PM

unclesmrgol is all about amnesty.

bw222 on April 19, 2014 at 5:18 PM

Talking about George Soros:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U0sXzlLAFDA

Realdemocrat1 on April 19, 2014 at 5:24 PM

Note that under the California DREAM Act thousands of eligible Americans are being waitlisted every year for UC/CSU/ admission while 6,000 illegals get classroom seats in their place.

Ask you local pro-DREAM Act politician what they have to say to all the Americans who will be waitlisted under a national version.

kd6rxl on April 19, 2014 at 5:50 PM

Immigration *reform* is amnesty. The GOP gets to line their pockets with big biz bucks and Progs get control for eternity. But for America and Americans, there’s only loss: jobs, income, wealth, language, culture, innovation, world standing and security.

Amnesty is the crown jewel for the Dog Eater, the total destruction of America as we knew it, with no way to rebuild it. It’s the nexus of *fundamental transformation* and *bringing the US more in line with the rest of the world*. No matter what Congress passes, the pen and phone will change it into a mass influx of the worlds dregs looking for a handout, not educated, experienced people that would enhance the US.

We don’t need reform, we need enforcement, you traitorous b*stards

AppraisHer on April 19, 2014 at 5:55 PM

Teach a liberal how to troll naive conservatives to make public fools of themselves, and the liberals will be in power forever…

———-

Sort of hard to separate the nut-jobs from ‘seminar trollers’ of the left who post something to elicit more and more extreme replies from the rabid anti-immigration factions in the GOP — making it easier to paint the GOP in general as being intolerant racial extremists and thereby marginalizing their political power.

FYI, the left’s seminar trollers do the same thing when it comes to egging social conservatives to make more and more extreme statements about abortion — or controlling other people’s lady parts. All for the purpose of making the GOP in general seem more extreme.

It sure seems like it’s easy trolling, easier than shooting fish in a barrel, given how this thread seems to be going…

Folks, you really need to be smarter than biting on this sort of nonsense hook line and sinker on common sense immigration reform, as well as when it comes to controlling other people’s lady parts… You’re being suckered into making yourselves look like fools ready to be creamed by more moderate views when elections come around.

At least that’s how it played out in 2012… Nothing wrong with wanting common sense immigration reform that isn’t about full amnesty.

In this case, you’re jumping up and down how it’s right to deny citizenship to folks that serve in the US military?

That’s going to be as much a non-seller to the general voting public as controlling other people’s lady parts is defined by extreme statements by the Pro-life crowd. Keep it up and it will be easy to see why the GOP earns the reputation as the ‘stupid party’, even if your positions are not aligned with the GOP LOSERship.

Settle on some common sense stuff on immigration that easily markets outside your limited political boundaries, stick with that message, and you’ll likely be making progress on actually being in power, rather than being marked as part of the ‘stupid’…

drfredc on April 19, 2014 at 5:56 PM

I love it when folks bring up “scripture” to defend illegal immigration, because last I checked, even Heaven has a gate and rules for entry, lol.
xblade on April 19, 2014 at 4:27 PM

That hurt!!

bluefox on April 19, 2014 at 6:35 PM

We don’t need reform, we need enforcement, you traitorous b*stards

AppraisHer on April 19, 2014 at 5:55 PM

Amen to that!!

bluefox on April 19, 2014 at 6:39 PM

1. In this case, you’re jumping up and down how it’s right to deny citizenship to folks that serve in the US military?

That’s going to be as much a non-seller to the general voting public as controlling other people’s lady parts is defined by extreme statements by the Pro-life crowd. Keep it up and it will be easy to see why the GOP earns the reputation as the ‘stupid party’, even if your positions are not aligned with the GOP LOSERship.

2.Settle on some common sense stuff on immigration that easily markets outside your limited political boundaries, stick with that message, and you’ll likely be making progress on actually being in power, rather than being marked as part of the ‘stupid’…

drfredc on April 19, 2014 at 5:56 PM

1. Illegal aliens should not be enticed to enter the military and risk their lives for the reward of citizenship. That is a morally bankrupt idea.

A. It will encourage MORE illegal immigration, just like the DREAM Act and every other benefit, reward, and magnet being proposed.

B. Illegal aliens cannot have a valid background check done, and thus classified information might be exposed to unknown actors.

C. The US military should be an ary of citizens, not mercenaries like the French Foreign Legion.

2. Attrition through enforcement is the most popular, efficient, just, moral and winning political policy:

http://www.jmisys.com/immigrationmarches/zogby5.html

And here is how it works:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oxe1WO27B_I

fred5678 on April 19, 2014 at 6:48 PM

The leftist in this country would love to have a military that is largely made up of foreign nationals. They will be much easier to command to fire upon US citizens (aka. domestic terrorists) when the orders are given.

mpthompson on April 19, 2014 at 6:49 PM

Teach a liberal how to troll naive conservatives to make public fools of themselves, and the liberals will be in power forever… drfredc on April 19, 2014 at 5:56 PM

I don’t know if that first sentence in your above comment was yours or you were quoting someone. Whichever, your mistake is identifying the Conservatives, at least on HA as naive. If by reading each comment on this particular thread and you can’t identify the real Conservatives from the others, then you have a problem.

What Boehner and Reid intend to pass will be neither common sense or moderate. Haven’t you figured out yet they pass the Administrations’ agenda?

Don’t call any Conservatives here stupid; save that for Boehner & Reid and any others that want to destroy the Country.

bluefox on April 19, 2014 at 6:51 PM

The leftist in this country would love to have a military that is largely made up of foreign nationals. They will be much easier to command to fire upon US citizens (aka. domestic terrorists) when the orders are given.

mpthompson on April 19, 2014 at 6:49 PM

Well, that’s already been done in Afghan as I recall. Your point is well taken tho. Now that would really be stupid. Are you listening drfredc on April 19, 2014 at 5:56 PM ?

bluefox on April 19, 2014 at 6:55 PM

Have errands to run, bbl.

bluefox on April 19, 2014 at 6:56 PM

I love it when folks bring up “scripture” to defend illegal immigration, because last I checked, even Heaven has a gate and rules for entry, lol.
xblade on April 19, 2014 at 4:27 PM

That hurt!!

bluefox on April 19, 2014 at 6:35 PM

They’ll just bring a ladder a foot longer than the gate is high!

slickwillie2001 on April 19, 2014 at 7:17 PM

bluefox on April 19, 2014 at 6:35 PM

They’ll just bring a ladder a foot longer than the gate is high!

slickwillie2001 on April 19, 2014 at 7:17 PM

LOL

bluefox on April 19, 2014 at 8:51 PM

I understand why Boehner is gauging the political realities of getting something done on immigration this year.

There is plenty that needs to be done. We have ridiculous anchor baby rules, adulterated citizenship rules and the demographic majority, Caucasians, are being turned into an enslaved scapegoated minority.

A party needs to come along right now to address these concerns. As soon as there is a party who will get these immigration concerns done, they will control the country for decades. Step one: put the Republican Party in the dirt and throw some more dirt on top of it.

Buddahpundit on April 19, 2014 at 8:58 PM

The leftist in this country would love to have a military that is largely made up of foreign nationals. They will be much easier to command to fire upon US citizens (aka. domestic terrorists) when the orders are given.

mpthompson on April 19, 2014 at 6:49 PM

Heck yeah!
They’ve got illegals on juries… in law schools. as cops.. does anyone really think some cop from Mexico is going to care about your rights?

JellyToast on April 19, 2014 at 9:15 PM

Perhaps Boehner is just learning to lie as well as Obama. Just to be sure, how about we mount his head on a pike?

Ray Van Dune on April 20, 2014 at 12:15 AM

The real Trojan horse is big money donors like Sheldon Adelson, who is an out-and-proud liberal. Republicans go and make acts of obeisance to him and his billions, or to other donors that are just as bad but less public about it, and then the politicians belong to the owners not the voters.

From then on, politicians are looking to sell out on immigration; it’s just a matter of when and how.

David Blue on April 20, 2014 at 3:31 AM

The real Trojan horse is big money donors like Sheldon Adelson, who is an out-and-proud liberal. Republicans go and make acts of obeisance to him and his billions, or to other donors that are just as bad but less public about it, and then the politicians belong to the owners not the voters.

From then on, politicians are looking to sell out on immigration; it’s just a matter of when and how.

David Blue on April 20, 2014 at 3:31 AM

True, it always comes down to money.

Dr. ZhivBlago on April 20, 2014 at 4:19 AM

2. It is morally wrong to encourage foreign nationals to risk their lives for our country, much like the French Foreign Legion.

fred5678 on April 19, 2014 at 1:21 PM

“The Legion got its start back in 1831 under the Orleanist King Louis-Philippe when he needed help conquering Algeria, knowing he couldn’t count on his own worthless countrymen.” –from The Frog Surrenders, William Palafox

From the sublime to the ridiculous in a generation.

dreadnought62 on April 20, 2014 at 9:10 AM

Watching Congress & the WH is like watching out for the snakes in the yard you & your kids have to play in.

Chessplayer on April 20, 2014 at 9:15 AM

There is something liberating about not worrying about voting. No long lines, no obligation to vote for backstabbers. It’s a win win

Brock Robamney on April 20, 2014 at 11:05 AM

There is something liberating about not worrying about voting. No long lines, no obligation to vote for backstabbers. It’s a win win

Brock Robamney on April 20, 2014 at 11:05 AM

Our Constitution gives us three boxes to use to redress problems with our government:

1. Soap (1st Amendment): convince our representatives to change course
2. Ballot (Right to vote): vote OUT those representatives if they don’t
3. Ammunition (2nd Amendment): replace non representative government

Use in that order and only if the previous one failed.

ConstantineXI on April 20, 2014 at 11:54 AM

Our Constitution gives us three boxes to use to redress problems with our government:
1. Soap (1st Amendment): convince our representatives to change course
2. Ballot (Right to vote): vote OUT those representatives if they don’t
3. Ammunition (2nd Amendment): replace non representative government
Use in that order and only if the previous one failed.
ConstantineXI on April 20, 2014 at 11:54 AM

Ok so you are pushing option 3 then?

Brock Robamney on April 20, 2014 at 1:45 PM

What I find humorous is that the NAACP walks hand in hand down the street with LaRazza.Even though its the illegal aliens who are taking the jobs away from the blacks.

BruceB on April 20, 2014 at 4:37 PM

There is something liberating about not worrying about voting. No long lines, no obligation to vote for backstabbers. It’s a win win

Brock Robamney on April 20, 2014 at 11:05 AM

It’s the way of the future.

Mass non-white immigration plus forced assimilation means a future without white people. That’s genocide.

But before then, it means a future where there will be no point in whites voting, because large blocks of non-whites vote racially, and the majority is non-white.

Huge numbers of whites still have the feeling that voting is very important. They’re going to lose that feeling.

I don’t know how white people are going to react to that over-all, but I’m sure one part of the reaction will be a sense of liberation in not having to vote for back-stabbers, where whoever you vote for they are all for the mass influx that makes your vote irrelevant.

David Blue on April 20, 2014 at 10:50 PM

What I find humorous is that the NAACP walks hand in hand down the street with LaRazza.Even though its the illegal aliens who are taking the jobs away from the blacks.

BruceB on April 20, 2014 at 4:37 PM

They are anti-white. It’s not about jobs. It’s about being against the designated scapegoat of all society’s ills.

David Blue on April 20, 2014 at 10:53 PM

Boehner is such a RHINO TOOL! Never one to be ‘one-upped’, he is going to make sure to prove he isn’t above engaging in non-representative government, too…especially if he wants to earn all that ‘special interest’ money from the REAL people he represents.

easyt65 on April 20, 2014 at 11:00 PM

…especially if he wants to earn all that ‘special interest’ money from the REAL people he represents.

easyt65 on April 20, 2014 at 11:00 PM

Yup.

Big donors form a distinct, relatively homogeneous group with interests that conflict with the interests of the mass of people that vote for the GOP.

David Blue on April 21, 2014 at 12:40 AM

I may still be living in denial, but that simply doesn’t make sense. I understand why Boehner is gauging the political realities of getting something done on immigration this year. (And more importantly, during the glide path to November 2016) But I’m expecting to see some specific, individual pieces of legislation dealing with stronger border security, E-verify or tougher penalties for employers of illegals. I can’t believe that the House leadership would even consider backing inclusion of the entire DREAM Act in the defense bill.

Why? Why does something need to be done on immigration at all? (and, when we talk about “getting something done”, we mean some form of legalization for the illegals – nothing more, nothing less).

There is no reason to do anything about the illegals’ status. None. what pressing need – from a United States policy perspective – is there to do anything for illegals?

One might make a case that we should give this gift to the illegals for some kind of misguided humanitarian or religious instinct – as Uncle whatever does above – but from the perspective of what reason does the U.S. need to legalize the illegals, there is no basis.

What benefit does conferring legal status on illegals provide to the U.S.? I have heard plenty of arguments as to the benefits the illegals themselves will obtain. But I have never heard one single benefit for the U.S.

And, in contrast, as is always brought forth and never disputed or countered – gifting the illegals with amnesty will harm the U.S. It will create a major incentive for millions more illegals to flood the U.S., so an amnesty will solve nothing. We will have the same problems and the same debates in 5 years that we are having today. And, we haven’t even discussed the costs of all the freshly minted people eligible for various local, state and federal benefits.

And, the idea that giving the illegals with amnesty will do anything for the GOP among Hispanics is disproven. 1) 1986′s amnesty did not increase the GOP’s share of Hispanic votes one iota; 2) the DNC is going to get as much, but more likely significantly more, credit for the amnesty; and 3) all polls show that Hispanics are largely far left of the GOP on almost all fiscal issues. So, anyone selling the idea that amnesty will help the GOP win Hispanic votes is an idiot.

Finally, the idea that the U.S. owes illegals anything is hogwash. they came here knowing they would be illegals, knowing they would have to “live in the shadows”. They came anyway and remain despite this. Therefore, their “plight” as illegals is not as bad as what they left behind. If someone breaks into my house, I do not owe them anything, even if they break into my house because they are starving. Why do you believe it is different when they break into your country? The U.S. does not owe the illegals anything and there is no basis for the argument that there is some “crisis” that needs to be solved with amnesty.

the only thing we should do regarding immigration is increase border security, prosecution of businesses hiring illegals, expand e-verify, and a multitude of other things to slow the flow of illegals. If not, then we should do absolutely nothing on immigration. The illegals will remain in the same position they were 10 years ago, 5 years ago, or yesterday. Which is a position that they chose for themselves.

I, for one, will never vote for another GOP candidate if amnesty in any form is passed. You can argue all you want about how I will be “helping the left” – but your argument is delusional. The GOP is currently a leftist party and is constantly trying to move further left. I have remained with the GOP as the lessor of 2 devils, but at some point, that is not enough. What difference does it make if the GOP’s policies extend our run to bankruptcy by an extra 5 years over the DNC’s policies? Is that really what you are fighting for?

The people pushing amnesty and/or excusing amnesty are absurd. I have yet to hear a single rational argument as to why Amnesty is even remotely in the U.S.’s interest. I have heard nonsense and straw-men (“the new and old testament tell us that we should be nice to foreigners” or “we shouldn’t want a permanent underclass”), but never an actual coherent argument based on logic and facts.

All of the logic and all of the facts are on the side of anti-amnesty.

Monkeytoe on April 21, 2014 at 8:27 AM

Amnesty and illegal immigration hurt and impact Democrats as much and probably more than Republicans and their politicians to a man support what amounts to open borders. Yet never do you hear a peep of complaint from these voters about how they are being thrown under the bus. I know as a group the stupid is strong with Dems but seriously none of them can see the writing on the wall?!?!?

Caseoftheblues on April 21, 2014 at 11:34 AM

What Monkeytoe wrote ^^.

Goes for me, too.

Monkeytoe on April 21, 2014 at 8:27 AM

At some point, with more than enough accumulated discourtesy, me, as a voter, has to make a change. I will not hesitate to reregister as “Independent” if and as the current GOP continues with these crazed, unsupportable plans to “push for amnesty”.

I have no other voice as an individual voter other than my vote and who I vote for and why. And, therefore, if there’s no indication that my views are respected, there’s a point when I will no longer extend respect to that source.

Lourdes on April 21, 2014 at 11:53 AM

Another thing: I got a letter with a card enclosed from Reince Priebus, asking me to fill out the card in order to acknowledge to him, the GOP, that I was, indeed, “a Republican.”

It was a fund-raising letter and the card had the amount I’d donated, or hadn’t donated, to the GOP “as a Republican” — the point there being that I was being asked to fund the GOP and to complete this card by affirming I was “Republican” accordingly and the card had preprinted on it, along with my name and mailing address, what amount I’d ever donated to the GOP.

I haven’t “completed” that card nor mailed it back to Priebus/GOP and think it’s indecent to be asked by the GOP about the legitimacy or credibility of my voter registration based upon finances or, rather, specifically, financial contributions to the GOP or lack thereof.

I realize the GOP needs individual donations. I’ll donate or not based upon what faith I have in the GOP, and not based upon demands for me to declare my donations to the GOP or any other political party (any political party is the issue here, the very “demand” is pretty sick and would be viewed as such by me from ANY political party).

The GOP, unfortunately, has gone Left. If they want to “go Right,” I’ll support them. If not, well, not going to sit in the Captain’s cabin and contribute to any ongoing wreck. Same goes for Democrats, lest anyone question my views.

This amnesty push is just wrong, unsupportable, corrupt and downright treasonous. I’ve yet to read why the GOP isn’t pushing for enforcement of the laws and increased security, also.

Which leads me back to what “Monkeytoe” wrote above — it summarizes my views on the issue very well.

Lourdes on April 21, 2014 at 12:00 PM

Amnesty produces another demand for amnesty, that produces another demand for amnesty, that produces another and another and…

It’s a failed concept, a failed process, just a wrong idea all ways considered.

IF the goal is to secure the nation, to “end illegal immigration,” then enforce our laws against illegal immigration, increase enforcement against foreign nationals who exploit our nation, do the hard work involved.

IF the goal is to eradicate the nation we call “the U.S.A.,” then remove laws, borders, standards, requirements for residency, just eradicate all conditions for anything and let the people from wherever roam wherever…

No amnesty will solve the human problems involved in illegal immigration. Those who engage in it are doing so intentionally — UNLESS they’re brought to the U.S. in chains (against their will by force) — and using people such as these to roll the U.S. toward some unmoderated land is exploitation in and of itself.

Yes, I just said the process and goal of amnesty is exploitive.

Lourdes on April 21, 2014 at 12:07 PM

People such as Zuckerberg, Soros, Gates, Adelson and the rest who push for amnesty could just as easily, if not easier, address the conditions that are being used to justify illegal immigration.

But they aren’t doing that.

Lourdes on April 21, 2014 at 12:08 PM

Comment pages: 1 2