The encore ObamaCare victory lap after the not-a-deadline-extension

posted at 4:51 pm on April 17, 2014 by Erika Johnsen

You knew this was coming. After their self-congratulatory announcement that ObamaCare had in fact managed to reach seven million enrollees two weeks ago (whatever the heck “enrollment” is even supposed to mean these days), the numbers after the deadline extension grace period (for people already “in line” for the exchanges when the March 31st deadline hit, you see) that ended on April 15th were only going to get better. ObamaCare has now hit an even more triumphant eight million “enrollees” — well beyond the seven-million projection goal that, only a few short months ago, they were trying to claim they had never actually made in the first place:

President Obama on Thursday announced that 8 million people enrolled in private health plans on ObamaCare’s exchanges so far, surpassing the most optimistic projections for the program’s first year. …

“The point is, the repeal debate is and should be over. The Affordable Care Act is working. I know the American people don’t want us to spend the next two-and-a-half years fighting settled battles,” Obama told reporters in the White House briefing room. …

Obama specifically targeted Republican critics of the healthcare law, saying they “still can’t bring themselves to admit that the Affordable Care Act is working.”

“It’s well past time to move on as a country,” Obama said. “These endless, fruitless repeal efforts come at a cost.”

Still no definite word on exactly how many of these “enrollees” have actually enrolled by paying for their selected plans, nor how many were previously uninsured. The president did reveal some demographics, however, informing us that 35 percent of the signups were from people under the age of 35. That figure is much more encouraging for reaching the hoped-for 40 percent roughly necessary for avoiding the ever-dreaded deaths spiral scenario, if true — but only 28 percent of those were actually signups from individuals between the ages of 18 and 34 (which, as the White House tells us, is virtually the same youth percentage that signed up in Massachusetts in the first year of their healthcare overhaul, so no worries!).

The eight million in the system does make the “debate about repeal” that much more difficult, but I wonder if President Obama will still be speaking quite so confidently about how definitively “ObamaCare is working” when they finally get around to allowing the employer mandate to really kick in — which, for some super mysterious reason, they have unilaterally decided to delay until well after the midterm elections, among other things. So odd.


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And the Republican response to this tripe will be what?

ToddPA on April 17, 2014 at 4:55 PM

The debate is over. It will never be repealed. You lose, Rethuglicans.

Lanceman on April 17, 2014 at 4:55 PM

The eight million in the system does make the “debate about repeal” that much more difficult

Not really since that number is completely unsubstantiated. Plus even if it was legit(and it’s not BTW), that doesn’t change the fact that the law is costing millions their coverage, driving up premiums for most Americans, and limiting access to doctors.

Doughboy on April 17, 2014 at 4:56 PM

The eight million in the system does make the “debate about repeal” that much more difficult, but I wonder if President Obama will still be speaking quite so confidently about how definitively “ObamaCare is working” when they finally get around to allowing the employer mandate to really kick in — which, for some super mysterious reason, they have decided to delay until well after the midterm elections. So odd.

Or when the Cadillac tax, which covers just about everybody who has full insurance from their employer, kicks in.

Rocks on April 17, 2014 at 4:56 PM

Do progs really think that by calling it a success, it’s a success?

chris0christies0donut on April 17, 2014 at 4:56 PM

No matter how many delusional victory speeches he makes on Obamacare, it is a mega disaster and majority of voters know it, and majority of voters know he is a liar, he is incompetent, and he is weak… In this regard it is over for this most incompetent fool…

mnjg on April 17, 2014 at 4:56 PM

Just like being honest or good looking, if you have to tell people you are, you probably aren’t.

rogerb on April 17, 2014 at 4:57 PM

Erika, please note: the number of total youths in the exchanges is 35%.

That is not the number that PURCHASED on the exchanges. That includes dependents.

If you are looking for actual policies, only 28% of the policies were purchased by those ages 18-35.

neoavatara on April 17, 2014 at 4:58 PM

Sorry, just noted that you did remark on that. Ignore my comment.

neoavatara on April 17, 2014 at 4:59 PM

So why is the employer mandate still delayed until after the election?

rogerb on April 17, 2014 at 5:02 PM

If you repeat the lie enough times…

John the Libertarian on April 17, 2014 at 5:03 PM

Isn’t it convenient that the Adm can come up with these #’s quite fast when they supposedly benefit them. Otherwise they don’t have that information yet.

rjoco1 on April 17, 2014 at 5:03 PM

Those working are the ones who will suffer and they have not let that part of the law go into effect yet till after mid terms ( shocker! ). Once working Americans are getting hit with the worse insurance, higher cost, lack of access to care, it will come down. These are the people who make up most of the voting pop. Dems will pay dearly for it.

watertown on April 17, 2014 at 5:04 PM

I don’t believe any of the numbers the administration provides. Just blowing smoke to cover his blunders and since he can’t retreat, he just keeps attacking. Or campaigning, as we have heard for the last 7 years or so.

Deano1952 on April 17, 2014 at 5:04 PM

Squishy’ s got nothing to back up his assertions. Why not just say 30 million have enrolled? The MSM has his back.

fogw on April 17, 2014 at 5:04 PM

8 million per the President, 37% approval rating from the country’s residents–who u gonna believe…

hillsoftx on April 17, 2014 at 5:06 PM

They must see themselves losing cult followers or they wouldn’t have trotted him out to spout more lies. They haven’t been letting him speak mucch.

Oh and where is the passionate Republican response to this?

crankyoldlady on April 17, 2014 at 5:06 PM

Then Dear Liar announced that the moon was made of green cheese.

rbj on April 17, 2014 at 5:09 PM

The Dog Eater stands up there and taunts the Republicans and then whines because they won’t give in to all of his schemes like ‘roads & bridges’ ‘student loans’ and all those other keen ‘investments’. Lord forgive me but I loathe that man…

bimmcorp on April 17, 2014 at 5:11 PM

Dear Leader wouldn’t lie about this….would he?

d1carter on April 17, 2014 at 5:12 PM

He becomes a smaller and smaller man with every victory dance…

d1carter on April 17, 2014 at 5:13 PM

Does he understand he is bragging about folks signing up to something his administration made MANDATORY? Big wup.

What a peach.

Opposite Day on April 17, 2014 at 5:13 PM

From the Presser:

Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

And that’s it for Obama. No Carney either.
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

Now to @djusatoday
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

Obama on Ds on Obamacare: “I don’t think we should apologize for it, I don’t think we should be defensive about it”
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

Obama: “i’m still puzzled why they made this their sole agenda item…it’s curious”
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

Obama: “I think that Democrats should forcefully defend and be proud” of Obamacare
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

Obama: “Military options are not on the table in Ukraine”
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

Next up @IsaacDovere
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

RT @SenTedCruz: The repeal debate is far from over. #FullRepeal
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

Obamacare Enrollment Hits 8 Million http://ti.me/1hPtZow via @TIMEPolitics
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Retweeted by Zeke Miller
Michael Tackett ‏@tackettdc 1h

“Yeah let’s talk about that” Obama says to question about aCA
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

Third question is to NPR.
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

Obama: “It was a pretty friendly conversation”
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

Obama says he is surprised by the “mismatch” between call and public statement
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

Obama: “I wished him happy passover”
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

Obama: “I had a very pleasant conversation with Leader Cantor yesterday”
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

Next question to La Opinión
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

FWIW, first question was to @khennessey
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

RT @NRCC: No, we can’t. RT @ZekeJMiller: Obama: “I think we can all agree that it’s well past time to move on.”
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

Obama “We have to be prepared to potentially respond to what continue to be efforts at interference”
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

Obama says he’s talking to PM Cameron later today
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

Obama: “We’re not going to know if there’s follow through on these statements for several days”
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

Obama pulls out a notecard with a list of reporter names to call on
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

Obama: “The point is the repeal debate is, and should be, over.”
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

Obama speaking http://instagram.com/p/m5zbexRi6x/
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

Obama: “I think we can all agree that it’s well past time to move on.”
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

Obama: “They still can’t bring themselves to admit that the affordable care act is working”
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

Obama: “This thing is working.”
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

Obama says 35% are under 35 years old
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

Obama: Number of Americans enrolled “has grown to 8 million people.”
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

Obama opens by sending condolences to families in South Korea
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Zeke Miller ‏@ZekeJMiller 1h

Here’s Obama
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canopfor on April 17, 2014 at 5:14 PM

how definitively “ObamaCare is working” when they finally get around to allowing the employer mandate to really kick in — which, for some super mysterious reason, they have unilaterally decided to delay until well after the midterm elections, among other things. So odd.

Yes why is he depriving the employers/employees from the super greatness of Obamacare… It is unfair… Let us demand that he applies the employer mandate now so everyone will enjoy the wonderful Obamacare (extreme sarcasm)…

mnjg on April 17, 2014 at 5:14 PM

Google… the unelected superpower

Let’s talk about who’s really running the United States… and much of the rest of the world.

Has Obama gone from ‘lame duck’ straight to figurehead?

thatsafactjack on April 17, 2014 at 5:15 PM

“They said nobody would sing up ” Really? what part of mandatory with fines don’t you understand Obama?

sandee on April 17, 2014 at 5:15 PM

I have a feeling the definition of “enrollment in Obamacare” to Obama, corresponds to “is” pertaining to sex for Bill Clinton.

LouisianaLightning on April 17, 2014 at 5:15 PM

The encore ObamaCare victory lap after the not-a-deadline-extension

History will refer to these as the “mission accomplished” speeches.

Happy Nomad on April 17, 2014 at 5:17 PM

Obama is an angry man in denial. And it looks like his anger and denial are increasing.

VorDaj on April 17, 2014 at 5:17 PM

From Da Presser:

Obama health care law
Barack Obama
31m
Update: White House says 28% of people enrolled in Obamacare between 18-34 years old; Obama had said 35% were under 35 in briefing – @polico
read more on politico.com
===========================

United States
35m
House Speaker John Boehner, R-Oh., on Affordable Care Act: ‘Had this law not led to millions of Americans receiving cancellation notices, many would not have had to sign up for this government-run program. What America really needs is a health care system that is more affordable, more accessible, and of the highest quality, and that’s what House Republicans are working toward’ – @NBCNews
end of alert
===============

Obama 2014 economic proposals
1h
President Obama: American people would rather see us talk about jobs, high college costs, infrastructure over Obamacare repeal – live video
end of alert
===============

Barack Obama
1h
President Obama on Republicans and Affordable Care Act: I recognize party is going through stages of grief; at some point there will be an interest on how to make this work the best way possible – live video
end of alert
===============

The White House, Washington, DC, US
1h
Photo: President Obama makes statement on Affordable Health Care enrollment at White House – @ZekeJMiller
see original on instagram.com
==============================

Barack Obama
1h
President Obama on Affordable Care Act: ‘I find it strange that the Republican position on this law is still stuck in the same place as it’s always been’ – @jeffzeleny
see original on twitter.com
============================

Barack Obama
1h
President Obama says Obamacare enrollment hits 8 million; 35% of those enrolled are under age of 35 – live video
end of alert

canopfor on April 17, 2014 at 5:17 PM

oops sign up but sing fits

sandee on April 17, 2014 at 5:18 PM

If his party loses the senate this November, to take effect in January, look for Obama’s anger to explode.

VorDaj on April 17, 2014 at 5:18 PM

I get it. Too many Democrats are jumping ship and they started to panic.

crankyoldlady on April 17, 2014 at 5:19 PM

“Of course we were nowhere near the 7 million paid enrollees . . .” Jay Carney, White House, November 5, 2014.

NewyoricanInTheSouth on April 17, 2014 at 5:20 PM

If his party loses the senate this November, to take effect in January, look for Obama’s anger to explode.

VorDaj on April 17, 2014 at 5:18 PM

pffft. He will simply grab his phone and pen, and go on permanent vacacay.

Once you’re lame duck, may as well enjoy it.

BobMbx on April 17, 2014 at 5:21 PM

One of Obama’s favorite philosophers summed it up best.

In time of difficulties, we must not lose sight of our achievements.

Mao Zedong

Oldnuke on April 17, 2014 at 5:23 PM

Heres Team Lefts ACA Guru:

Charles Gaba
@charles_gaba

Web Developer in Michigan. Currently best-known for being the http://ACASignups.net guy. Also known as Brainwrap at Daily Kos.

Bloomfield Hills, MI · brainwrap.com

https://twitter.com/charles_gaba

canopfor on April 17, 2014 at 5:24 PM

A platinum sprayed turd is still a turd.

Schadenfreude on April 17, 2014 at 5:24 PM

I read that letters were going out to people telling them that an application was started for them by HHS and all they had to do was go to the website and complete it to get inured. I believe Cruz mused whether these were part of the 7.1 million. Am I recalling correctly?

KCB on April 17, 2014 at 5:25 PM

“They said nobody would sing up ” Really? what part of mandatory with fines don’t you understand Obama?

sandee on April 17, 2014 at 5:15 PM

This isn’t an episode of Glee! ;0

Seriously, the lazy stupid rat-eared wonder thought he had enough “good news” about his failed healthcare scheme that he could go out and do another premature victory lap. He went the full schoolmarm and told us that it was all settled and we should just move on.

It tells me that the rat-eared bastard is utterly out of touch with real Americans. Real Americans can’t find a provider with their new Obamacare plan and the rat-eared bastard is blathering on about the millions who now have insurance thanks to Obamacare. And, BTW, it’s all settled so any further objections are just racist attacks on an American President who has used at least two different names, represented himself as a Kenyan, and wrote memoirs that created fictional racist girlfriends in composite.

Happy Nomad on April 17, 2014 at 5:25 PM

Erika, please note: the number of total youths in the exchanges is 35%.

That is not the number that PURCHASED on the exchanges. That includes dependents.

If you are looking for actual policies, only 28% of the policies were purchased by those ages 18-35.

neoavatara on April 17, 2014 at 4:58 PM

This does make a huge difference and to ignore it is to miss reality by a country mile.

VorDaj on April 17, 2014 at 5:26 PM


?????????????????????:

Charles Gaba ‏@charles_gaba 2m

#ACASignups The Graph, updated w/8M exch. QHPs & modified Off-exch. QHPs: http://acasignups.net/graph pic.twitter.com/u76mNqxgO9

https://twitter.com/charles_gaba/status/456906530621636608/photo/1/large

canopfor on April 17, 2014 at 5:29 PM

“The point is, the repeal debate is and should be over. The Affordable Care Act is working.

Really? Then why did you suspend implementation of parts of it just prior to general elections?

LIAR!

GarandFan on April 17, 2014 at 5:29 PM

From the Whip it Good,(sarc);

Obama health care law
1m
House Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif: ‘The President says that Republicans have not accepted Obamacare as settled law. He is right. Republicans cannot and will not accept this law’ – @NBCNews

canopfor on April 17, 2014 at 5:31 PM

It’s neither “affordable”, nor “care”.

It’s an act, Liars!!!

It’s obama’care’ and you can all go to Hell.

Schadenfreude on April 17, 2014 at 5:33 PM

I heard a few minutes of the presser…is it me or does Obama seem like a ticking time bomb? He’s ready to explode

On topic…the man is a liar…everybody knows it….game over

Redford on April 17, 2014 at 5:35 PM

The Hopey ACA is SCROTCHED!!

canopfor on April 17, 2014 at 5:40 PM

The lies don’t stop.

albill on April 17, 2014 at 5:40 PM

House Majority Whip Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif: ‘The President says that Republicans have not accepted Obamacare as settled law. He is right. Republicans cannot and will not accept this law’

canopfor on April 17, 2014 at 5:31 PM

Headline tomorrow in the NYT and WaPo…… GOP refuses to eat their peas.

Happy Nomad on April 17, 2014 at 5:41 PM

No proper data released.

Frankly I’m surprised they waited so long to go Full Monty on the enrollment lies. When they were lying about not claiming 7 million as a goal they had concluded that it was impossible to reach even when fudging the “sign up” definition. They should have started the ramping up the outright fake numbers sooner so the great success of 7 million looked at least a little plausible.

forest on April 17, 2014 at 5:44 PM

1. The numbers will be what they are ordered to be.
2. Acceptance of the Second Amendment should have happened. It has been the law of the land since our country was founded.
3. Obama lies, Obama lies all the time. Even when Obama does not have t lie, Obamalies.
4. Still don’t think this is going to stop a bloodbath for the democrat fascist in November.

jukin3 on April 17, 2014 at 5:47 PM

Obama just makes up this crap. He and his inept administration have no idea what the true numbers are. They’ll just keep on lying. .

rplat on April 17, 2014 at 5:52 PM

IF it is working why does he need to lie?

If it’s working does that mean we can keep our doctor after all?

If it’s working does that mean I can pay what I was paying last year?

If it’s working tell us the truth, because those numbers were debunked before he got off the screen.

petunia on April 17, 2014 at 5:53 PM

4. Still don’t think this is going to stop a bloodbath for the democrat fascist in November.

jukin3 on April 17, 2014 at 5:47 PM

You have no idea how widespread their fraud apparatus is. Some states will have honest elections. Most have done nothing to make it right.

crankyoldlady on April 17, 2014 at 5:54 PM

canopfor on April 17, 2014 at 5:31 PM

Headline tomorrow in the NYT and WaPo…… GOP refuses to eat their peas.

Happy Nomad on April 17, 2014 at 5:41 PM

Happy Nomad: I wish,..those peas got spitt’d up,..all over Changey!:)

canopfor on April 17, 2014 at 5:55 PM

So hilarious that the screaming black child is going on about stages of grief when it’s obvious to everyone with a brain that the screaming black child is neck-deep in denial.

northdallasthirty on April 17, 2014 at 5:59 PM

So hilarious that the screaming black child is going on about stages of grief when it’s obvious to everyone with a brain that the screaming black child is neck-deep in denial.

northdallasthirty on April 17, 2014 at 5:59 PM

I wonder if our two resident race hustlers from 2 days ago are gonna take your bait this time, ND30…This raycyst is ready to engage…

bimmcorp on April 17, 2014 at 6:05 PM

It needs to be called Obamacare, because calling it the Affordable Care Act will be the biggest joke of all.

Tater Salad on April 17, 2014 at 6:06 PM

We know that over 6 million people lost their health insurance because of Obamacare.

Even if 8 million people enrolled in the exchanges, how many of them are among those who lost their previous health insurance and are now paying double or triple for less coverage? How many of them now have insurance that is only accepted by 10% of the doctors or hospitals in their state?

When Obamacare was being debated in Congress, we were told that 47 million people didn’t have health insurance. If 6 million people lost insurance and 8 million people gained insurance, that’s a net gain of 2 million people, or about 4.3% of the previously uninsured, or 0.65% of the American population, four years and $2 trillion later. That’s worth about one finger of a high-five.

Of course they put off the employer mandate, which will do the real damage, until after the election.

Steve Z on April 17, 2014 at 6:07 PM

The debate is over. It will never be repealed. You lose, Rethuglicans.

Lanceman on April 17, 2014 at 4:55 PM

Actually, America loses.

NavyMustang on April 17, 2014 at 6:13 PM

Hey Obama, If this ACA is so great, why aren’t you and the congress enrolled in it?

birdwatcher on April 17, 2014 at 6:28 PM

Anyone who thinks some given number of ‘sign-ups’ makes it impossible to repeal this thing is just looking for a cop out.

Most of this number are Obamacare hostages who’d rather have what they had before.

As for the rest, they’re not conservative voters to begin with and were never going to vote right in any event. So who cares if Democrat voters get mad?

On the other hand, rightists risk the wrath of their own voters if they don’t repeal or at least hollow out the shell of Ocare.

This reminds me of the inverted thinking of the GOP going after Hispanic votes instead of concentrating resources on winning another five percent of the white vote.

bildung on April 17, 2014 at 6:28 PM

Where are all of the Trolls that are supposed to be here shouting praises for Obamacare and the Eighty Gazzilionth sign up?

Johnnyreb on April 17, 2014 at 6:48 PM

Do progs really think that by calling it a success, it’s a success?

chris0christies0donut on April 17, 2014 at 4:56 PM

Why yes. Yes they do.

Obama is an angry man in denial. And it looks like his anger and denial are increasing.

VorDaj on April 17, 2014 at 5:17 PM

I never felt before that the President of the United States actually hated me. But I feel like that now. I’m a conservative, so I’m actually the enemy and must be destroyed. Unemployed, struggling to pay insurance, he doesn’t care. All he cares about is that he gets to go on TV and look good. Anyone interfering with that, he’s got in his sights.

Eviva on April 17, 2014 at 6:48 PM

Hmm, that came out wrong. Not personally unemployed (not yet anyway) but in general, he couldn’t care less about the jobless, or the hungry. Heck, he can’t even scrape two dimes together to send to his own half-brother George. Why would he care about the rest of us? HEY LOOK ME AND BIDEN DID A SELFIE WE’RE SO KEWL!

Eviva on April 17, 2014 at 6:52 PM

The debate is over. It will never be repealed. You lose, Rethuglicans.

Lanceman on April 17, 2014 at 4:55 PM

You can’t spell Rethuglikkkans without KKK.

There Goes the Neighborhood on April 17, 2014 at 6:56 PM

Even the liberals are doubting the numbers… so that tells you the trust is gone.

When the first word out of a liberals mouth is, “if those numbers can be believed…” it means the numbers can’t be believed.

It’s lies. Everyone knows it is lies.

There is some denial going on… but it’s not the Republicans.

petunia on April 17, 2014 at 7:38 PM

I never felt before that the President of the United States actually hated me. But I feel like that now. I’m a conservative, so I’m actually the enemy and must be destroyed. Unemployed, struggling to pay insurance, he doesn’t care. All he cares about is that he gets to go on TV and look good. Anyone interfering with that, he’s got in his sights.

Eviva on April 17, 2014 at 6:48 PM

YES

slickwillie2001 on April 17, 2014 at 7:49 PM

“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.”

“The question is,” said Alice, “whether you can make words mean so many different things.”

“The question is,” said Humpty Dumpty, “which is to be master – - that’s all.”

(Through the Looking Glass, Chapter 6)

If Obama said it, it is a lie. If anyone in his administration said it, it is a lie. And does “enroll” have the same definition as it does in the dictionary?

sadatoni on April 18, 2014 at 11:26 AM

Agree with what I perceive to be the general consensus here about the lying and deceit – it’s frustrating, immoral, wrong, etc.

Interestingly I listened to a Tim Keller sermon the other day on the book of Proverbs relating lying this way: that everyone has a right to experience reality and lying or deceit deprives one from that fundamental right by distorting reality.

So, who cares? Aside from the few lone bloggers and posters those who can perceive this reality we are hugely outnumbered by those who actively counter us (e.g. the MSM) and those who remain silent (e.g. the Christian church).

While I think the church going political isn’t a good thing I also think their silence also equals ascent to the lies.

I recognize that my (our) view of reality may be wrong, but that is why God gave us rational minds (to think, weigh, consider, etc.) and why I (we?) find all these lies and deceit so frustrating. I have no idea what it feels like to be those on the giving end of the lies except to assume that they are blind (we all have our blind spots) and/or to them the end justifies the means.

So, the only conclusion I come to – as I ponder this Good Friday – is that this is a massive (i.e. cosmic) battle of good vs. evil and while it’s beyond us individually to fight and win we are expected to keep up the good fight. And our weapons are not the weapons of our opponents or the weapons of war or battle.

www

wwwild on April 18, 2014 at 3:26 PM