Breaking: Pollard to go free in exchange for extended Israeli-Palestinian talks? Update: Talks still in progress?

posted at 1:41 pm on April 10, 2014 by Ed Morrissey

Does John McCain owe John Kerry an apology? Or does Jonathan Pollard owe McCain a thank-you card? Two days after McCain scolded Kerry over his refusal to “recognize reality” and give up on the Israeli-Palestinian peace process, al-Arabiya reports that the US has kickstarted the effort back to life — by trading Pollard to Israel in exchange for a new Palestinian prisoner release and a moratorium on settlement expansion:

Palestinians and Israelis have reached a deal to extend peace talks beyond an April 30 deadline, Al Arabiya News Channel reported on Thursday.

The deal will see an unspecified number of Palestinian prisoners released from Israel jails and a freeze on settlement construction in the West Bank.

In exchange, the Palestinians will suspend their plans to join 15 international bodies and treaties and the United States will release jailed Israeli spy Jonathan Pollard, according to sources.

The Pollard trade has come up so often in Kerry’s negotiations that it was almost inevitable that it would hit the table eventually. By producing it now, Kerry keeps the Palestinians from progressing on their quest for de facto recognition and the Israelis for building more housing units. For now. In fact, all Kerry appears to have bought is just a deadline extension past the end of this month, and one last serious attempt at talks before that deadline approaches at all.

The intelligence community won’t be pleased, if this turns out to be true, but Pollard has probably outlived his usefulness in prison. If the US can get something substantive for his release, then after twenty-seven years, it would be a good call. This probably just buys Kerry a little face-saving time rather than anything substantive, though. If talks collapse later, the US will have traded its hole card for nothing. And nothing in the current talks suggest that we’re moving toward any resolution of the conflict between the Israelis and Palestinians, because the Palestinians still want the right to live in Israel while the Israelis want Israel to remain a Jewish state.

Yahoo’s Olivier Knox reports that Kerry might demand that apology from his old friend after feeling “betrayed and surprised” over the criticism:

Secretary of State John Kerry felt “betrayed and surprised” by Republican Sen. John McCain’s withering and highly personal criticisms at a congressional hearing, a senior administration official told Yahoo News on Wednesday.

Kerry “felt betrayed and surprised to see McCain so angrily rooting for failure against one of the most internationalist members of the administration,” said the official, who is close to the secretary and requested anonymity to speak candidly about the top diplomat’s reaction.

The key word there might be “internationalist.” Republicans long openly contemptuous of President Barack Obama’s cautious handling of world affairs — “leading from behind,” as one anonymous administration aide once described it — had hoped that Kerry would nudge the administration to take a more aggressive approach to problems such as the civil war in Syria.

I wouldn’t demand an apology just yet. Let’s see if Pollard’s release actually does anything except get Pollard out of prison, assuming that this deal survives long enough to be implemented at all.

Update: Ynet News has a little more:

On Thursday, in a new meeting between Palestinian and Israeli negotiators, attended by US special envoy Martin Indyk took place, a Palestinian source told Ma’an the parties were set to discuss the possibility of Israel releasing the fourth and final group of prisoners in a bid save relieve tensions between the two sides the hopes of resuming talks.

According to the source Ma’an spoke with, the Palestinian negotiators will then continue to separate the release of prisoners and the extension of peace talks beyond the agreed deadline of April 29.

A PA official further claimed that a release would be secured, and would talk place by the end of the month. …

Under interim peace deals, Israel collects and transfers to the PA some $100 million a month in taxes on goods imported into the Palestinian territories. Israel has previously frozen the payments during times of heightened tensions.

Though Israel did not mention such measures on Wednesday, Palestinian Foreign Minister Riyad al-Malki said the Israeli government had “indicated” this morning it would withhold the revenues. He did not say how that message had been delivered.

I’m not sure how much optimism there is to salvage here.

Update: Jeff Dunetz’ sources in Israel says no deal has been reached yet, but a swap is under discussion:

Israeli sources tell me that while a deal is being discussed, there is no deal yet. Indeed a report in Arutz Sheva confirms what my sources said:

One US official speaking to AFP on condition of anonymity stated Thursday that the “reports are incorrect.” After initially reporting that a deal could be near, Channel 2 quoted Israeli sources close to the talks as saying “the reports on the deal are premature,” adding that the US State Department said “gaps between Israel and the Palestinians have narrowed, but there is still no deal.”There are also differing reports of what is in the deal, but generally, I have been told the items being discussed are close to the Al Arabiya, report; the remaining Palestinian prisoners that were promised will be released plus others, at least some of the applications to join international bodies will be suspended, a partial or full settlement freeze in Judea and Samaria (but not Jerusalem), the talks continue at least till end of the year, and Pollard gets out.

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Weasels of America, unite!!!

Schadenfreude on April 10, 2014 at 1:42 PM

Nation of utter Fools!!!

Schadenfreude on April 10, 2014 at 1:43 PM

obama/Hillary and Kerry ruin you.

Wait, they already have.

Good night America.

Schadenfreude on April 10, 2014 at 1:43 PM

Pollard needs to continue to rot in prison.
Just because I was born Jewish doesn’t mean that I’m obligated to support that worthless traitor!

annoyinglittletwerp on April 10, 2014 at 1:45 PM

Meanwhile the Iranian slated UN ambassador is also the assassin of an opposition Iranian, in Italy.

The USA is a one frucked up country.

L.i.b.

Schadenfreude on April 10, 2014 at 1:45 PM

So, we gave up a prisoner so the Palis could get something from Israel.

What’s wrong with this picture?

Oh yeah, Obama’s in it.

Grammar Nazi on April 10, 2014 at 1:45 PM

Pollard’s release must mean peace!///////////

joepub on April 10, 2014 at 1:46 PM

Spying on the USA, ok.

Palestinians are obama’s friends.

Enemies of the USA are also obama/Hillary/Kerry friends.

How you sheeple deserve all this!

Schadenfreude on April 10, 2014 at 1:47 PM

Yeah, this just gets better and better…

JohnGalt23 on April 10, 2014 at 1:49 PM

Huh. What does the US get outa this?

Akzed on April 10, 2014 at 1:50 PM

Wow, part of me figured this would happen. But just wow.

In fact, all Kerry appears to have bought is just a deadline extension past the end of this month, and one last serious attempt at talks before that deadline approaches at all.

Wow

cozmo on April 10, 2014 at 1:50 PM

If the US can get something substantive for his release, then after twenty-seven years, it would be a good call.

It’s utterly meaningless. There is no “peace process” or “peace talks” until the Palestinians agree that Israel has a right to exist.

rbj on April 10, 2014 at 1:50 PM

Sounds like the perfect lose-lose scenario: we release a traitor to get Israel to make concessions to the Palestinians, against their own interests. . .

Chuckles3 on April 10, 2014 at 1:51 PM

uh?

chris0christies0donut on April 10, 2014 at 1:52 PM

In fact, all Kerry appears to have bought is just a deadline extension past the end of this month, and one last serious attempt at talks before that deadline approaches at all.

Well, no, he’s done more than that. He’s establshed a precedent whereby negotiations with other countries can always be delayed by these kinds of hostage negotiations for people we have imprisoned for good reason. The terrorists should be smiling today. All done to save him face. Does every top cabinet position require a narcissist to fill it?

butch on April 10, 2014 at 1:54 PM

Pollard, who was sentenced to life in prison in 1987, has long maintained that he only gave information to Israel — an American ally — so it could protect itself from hostile countries in the Middle East. Not so, say intelligence officials who served at the time of Pollard’s crimes.

“Much of what he took, contrary to what he’d have you believe, had nothing to do with Arab countries or the security of Israel, but had everything to do with U.S. collection methods, to include most specifically against the Soviet Union,” retired Adm. Thomas Brooks, the former director of naval intelligence, said in an interview. Pollard worked for Brooks in 1980 when Brooks was in charge of a Navy intelligence office based at Ft. Meade, Md, which is also the headquarters of the National Security Agency.

Among the highly prized secrets that former officials say Pollard gave away while working as a civilian intelligence analyst for the Navy were technical details of sophisticated U.S. spy satellites; analyses of Soviet missiles systems; and information about eavesdropping equipment used by the NSA to intercept foreign governments’ communications, including all ten volumes of a highly classified manual known as “the Bible” that spelled out how the United States intercepted Soviet communications.

This isn’t the first time that Pollard’s release has been floated in the midst of U.S.-brokered Middle East peace talks. In 1998, President Bill Clinton was prepared to release Pollard during the summit at Wye River, Md., but the effort was scuttled when intelligence officials protested and then-Director of Central Intelligence George Tenet threatened to resign.

That reveals the depths of U.S. spies’ animosity toward Pollard, whom many regard as one of the most harmful spies in recent history. Three decades after Pollard confessed to giving Israel a stack of documents that, by his own estimation, would have measured six-by-six feet and stood 10-feet high, intelligence veterans insist that Pollard did far more damage to U.S. national security than is generally known.

“I think what he did is exceeded only by Edward Snowden,” said Brooks, drawing an analogy between Pollard and the former NSA contractor who gave millions of pages of classified documents about eavesdropping systems to journalists, and who’s now living in Russia under a grant of political asylum.

Akzed on April 10, 2014 at 1:55 PM

SMRT PWER!

FontanaConservative on April 10, 2014 at 1:56 PM

Don’t do this Israel! Please don’t do this

sadsushi on April 10, 2014 at 1:57 PM

You’re kidding, right? What’s likely to come of this … the fundamental situation on the ground hasn’t changed, and Isreal is at loggerheads with the Palestinians. So the most Israel can do is make a show of going through the motions for a period of time.

In other words, we’re trading something of tangible value for nothing.

If only the Democrats were half as clever with foreign policy as they were in swindling Stupak into his health care vote.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

pendell2 on April 10, 2014 at 1:57 PM

This will not change the fact that the negotiations are not going to succeed… Extending negotiations that are destined to fail no matter what because of the Palestinians not wanting peace is not a sign of success what so ever…

mnjg on April 10, 2014 at 1:58 PM

Akzed on April 10, 2014 at 1:55 PM

Even as a Jewish teenager/ young adult-I knew he was a traitor.
Though I’m Catholic now-my opinion of Pollard hasn’t changed.

annoyinglittletwerp on April 10, 2014 at 1:58 PM

The palistoneagens have never missed an opportunity to miss an oportunity. I really would worry and this is all pointless.

Skwor on April 10, 2014 at 2:00 PM

one last serious attempt at talks before that deadline approaches at all.

This is sooooo stupid. Abbas doesn’t even control half of the Palestinian territories. EVEN IF HE WANTED, he is in no position politically, culturally or militarily to make a peace deal with Israel. It’s all a colossal waste of time and resources.

The only thing Kerry has accomplished is getting us to hand over an American traitor and the Israelis to hand over a bunch of criminals and terrorists. Yeah.

Clark1 on April 10, 2014 at 2:00 PM

Huh. What does the US get outa this?

Akzed on April 10, 2014 at 1:50 PM

Laughed at, of course…

bimmcorp on April 10, 2014 at 2:01 PM

Democrats just lost the next 3 elections and the DNC will use this to further their anti-Israel propaganda.

Skywise on April 10, 2014 at 2:01 PM

obama is a traitor to the USA.

Schadenfreude on April 10, 2014 at 2:02 PM

In other words, we’re trading something of tangible value for nothing.

pendell2 on April 10, 2014 at 1:57 PM

Same as dropping the Iran-sanctions, for nothing.

Schadenfreude on April 10, 2014 at 2:04 PM

We like to call this the “Heinz 57″ approach to foreign policy

Roy Rogers on April 10, 2014 at 2:08 PM

We like to call this the “Heinz 57″ approach to foreign policy

Roy Rogers on April 10, 2014 at 2:08 PM

I see what you did there…

bimmcorp on April 10, 2014 at 2:09 PM

This probably just buys Kerry a little face-saving time rather than anything substantive, though. If talks collapse later, the US will have traded its hole card for nothing.

Bingo.

Trading away value in exchange for… nothing.

Again.

Smart power, or something.

Midas on April 10, 2014 at 2:09 PM

If this goes through, I hope the next conservative President drone strikes Pollard. He betrayed his country. He needs to pay. Forever. Oh and don’t think we’ve forgotten you Hanoi Jane. Treason has no statute of limitations.

Iblis on April 10, 2014 at 2:11 PM

I don’t see what Israel gets out of this except one guy.
Why is everyone so stupid?

vityas on April 10, 2014 at 2:13 PM

By offering Israel to trade imprisoned Israeli agent Jonathan Pollard for Palestinian terrorist murderers, Kerry transformed the US from the leader in the war against terrorism, into the champion of terrorists. Moreover, he indicated that he views Pollard as a hostage that the US is free to use to extort concessions to terrorists from Israel.

As a result of Kerry’s scandalous behavior, the US media, which for 20 years have enthusiastically supported every US effort to force Israel to make concessions to the PLO, lost their stomach for the show. Everyone from The New York Times to The Washington Post to The Wall Street Journal and network news attacked Kerry for his actions.

To a degree, the US media’s castigation of Kerry was unfair. He only followed the two-state model to its logical conclusion. Since the Palestinians refuse to abandon their goal of destroying Israel, they will never agree to a peace deal with Israel that will require them to live at peace with the Jewish state. As a result, they will never make any concessions to Israel.

The only way to keep this fraudulent negotiating process going is for the US to both coerce Israel into making more and more one-sided concessions to the PLO, such as freeing terrorist murderers form prison, and providing Israel with US payoffs to make the government continue to abide by a fiction. In other words, Kerry had no option other than to offer up Pollard as a hostage to be swapped in exchange for freedom to Palestinian terrorists.

Transforming the US into the proxy of a terrorist organization was just the beginning of Kerry’s failure.

His desperate behavior showed PLO chief Mahmoud Abbas that there are no depths Kerry will not plumb to prolong the fictional peace process.

http://carolineglick.com/a-chance-to-move-on/

cbenoistd on April 10, 2014 at 2:17 PM

Pollard, regardless of what you think of him, has done more than enough time to pay for his crime. Murderers don’t get 30 years anymore…

ConstantineXI on April 10, 2014 at 2:18 PM

If talks collapse later,

We’re talking about the Palestinians here, right?

tommer74 on April 10, 2014 at 2:20 PM

@Akzed: It would have been pathetically easy for the feds at any time to publicize the extent of Pollard’s thefts, or at least to brief the more sensible members of the pro-Pollard camp, yet for thirty years they were virtually mum. So really I have no idea how much he compromised in practice , only that he basically cleaned out the intelligence warehouse, apparently courtesy of a bizarre honor system.

But when a man’s worst accusers so rarely bother to get into specifics, skepticism is warranted.

Seth Halpern on April 10, 2014 at 2:23 PM

“Pollard, regardless of what you think of him, has done more than enough time to pay for his crime. Murderers don’t get 30 years anymore…

The penalty for treason is death. The fact that he is in prison instead is mercy.

Actually, I don’t have a problem trading him to Israel in exchange for a concession, but if we’re going to trade him, let’s at least trade him for something meaningful, not an empty promise which requires nothing of Israel more than going through the motions (they didn’t promise to actually DO anything if the talks are extended).

I don’t mind trading away a spy for which we have no use for something valuable, but what we got in exchange gives us nothing.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

pendell2 on April 10, 2014 at 2:23 PM

So the Palestinians won’t negotiate with the Israelis unless the Israelis release some of their prisoners and stop settlement construction. And the Israelis won’t do that unless the U.S. releases Pollard.

The real question should be, why do the Palestinians need to be rewarded just to get them to negotiate? And why are the Israelis willing to give the Palestinians those rewards just to get them to negotiate?

I can understand what’s in it for Kerry personally — if he keeps the Israelis and Palestinians negotiating with each other, he improves his reputation as a diplomat, making him a more plausible presidential candidate if Hillary drops out, and maybe even making him a potential Nobel Peace Prize winner. But how does that help anyone else?

J.S.K. on April 10, 2014 at 2:33 PM

@pendell2: Treason is specifically defined in the US Constitution and Pollard was never accused of it. His crime was essentially that he acted as a one man United Parcel Service emptying out his “private” warehouse of secrets.

In hindsight the same handlers who hung him out to dry were undoubtedly cautious about further disseminating those secrets, and thus arguably saved his neck.

Seth Halpern on April 10, 2014 at 2:45 PM

Snowden is a hero obviously. Comparing Pollard to Snowden is very misleading, which was the point of course. The fact is the NSA and many other alphabet soup organizations are engaged in blatently illegal activities, and all they should be disbanded.

A true conservative would support the deconstruction of much of this federal bureaucracy, and yet the “conservatives” at places like this do not seem concerned with that at all. They support the government as if it was the country.

Can one be a traitor to a government and yet not a traitor to the country? Do the “conservatives” who dominate the Republican Party see any difference between the government and the country any more? Or have they forsaken their small-government roots for partisanship and unquestioning support of the government and its ruling regime?

Another Libertarian on April 10, 2014 at 2:55 PM

Another Libertarian on April 10, 2014 at 2:55 PM

Fluke the gov’t and the nsa. Don’t lump all in one bucket.

Schadenfreude on April 10, 2014 at 2:59 PM

Pollard needs to continue to rot in prison.
Just because I was born Jewish doesn’t mean that I’m obligated to support that worthless traitor!

annoyinglittletwerp on April 10, 2014 at 1:45 PM

People who have done far worse than Pollard have served fewer years. No, what he did wasn’t right, but treat him the same that you would treat any person who did what he did. If that were the case, he would have been released a long time ago.

I’m not in favor of a release because I’m not in favor of any trades that release terrorists. Jewish law forbids paying ransoms because it only encourages further kidnapping. Same applies here. Pollard should have received a pardon years ago – but should not go free if it means murderers will be released.

sultanp on April 10, 2014 at 3:06 PM

I’m a Southron Baptist, but Carolyn Glick, I love ya, babe!

vnvet on April 10, 2014 at 3:09 PM

Seth Halpern on April 10, 2014 at 2:23 PM

I followed it closely when it was current, I had to go look up the particulars today. I don’t recall the degree to which the transcript and details of his trial and crimes were, perhaps they couldn’t all be listed in order to protect national security.

He should have been hung, but thirty years in prison is worse than hanging. So… I dunno.

Akzed on April 10, 2014 at 3:29 PM

Huh. What does the US get outa this?

Akzed on April 10, 2014 at 1:50 PM


The Precious
hopes to get his first and only foreign policy success.

slickwillie2001 on April 10, 2014 at 3:45 PM

Thank you, Seth.

” Treason is specifically defined in the US Constitution and Pollard was never accused of it. His crime was essentially that he acted as a one man United Parcel Service emptying out his “private” warehouse of secrets.”

Point of order: They weren’t his secrets to give away, but the US government’s. So, okay, maybe it doesn’t fit the legal definition of treason, but espionage definitely. His crimes were similar to those committed by Julius and Ethel Rosenberg, who ALSO gave secrets away to a country which was, at the time, our ally.

In the intelligence world, there are no such things as permanent allies or enemies. So giving away your country’s secrets to anyone is punishable, regardless of who they are.

“In hindsight the same handlers who hung him out to dry were undoubtedly cautious about further disseminating those secrets, and thus arguably saved his neck.”

I believe that is an unreasonable assumption. Intelligence secrets are at the mercy of the politicals on top of the chain, and I suspect Isreali politicians have little more integrity than American ones are.

Some quick internet research suggests the Isrealis sat on the intel and never , for example, traded it to the Russians.

http://www2.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB407/

Be that as it may, Pollard DID give Israeli politicians a stack of bargaining chips which they COULD trade to other countries, now or in the future. He took a great risk that every one of the people he traded intel to would act in the interest of the US with those secrets and not, say, in the best interest of the country they had actually sworn to protect.

Jonathon Pollard deliberately divulged information he had sworn to protect, and his prison sentence is certainly deserved because of that. If the Israelis want him back, so far as I’m concerned we’ve got no use for him and I’m willing to trade. But not for nothing.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

pendell2 on April 10, 2014 at 3:51 PM

What a joke…welcome to the Middle East two-step.

William Eaton on April 10, 2014 at 3:53 PM

Actually, something I just noted that may put a new spin on the entire affair:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jonathan_Pollard#Sentencing_and_incarceration

“His Federal Bureau of Prisons ID is #09185-016. He is incarcerated in FCI Butner Medium at the Butner Federal Correction Complex in North Carolina. The Bureau of Prisons (BOP) projects his release date as November 21, 2015.[56]”

In other words, we would be giving him to the Isrealis for free in a year anyway. As a perishable asset, Kerry traded him for something of value now –even dubious — rather than simply giving him away outright next year upon parole.

Respectfully,

Brian P.

pendell2 on April 10, 2014 at 3:57 PM

Also…Obama/Kerry are obsessed with something that cannot be solved except on the field of battle by those involved. Meanwhile, we have China and Russia…and what has Kerry done about those two big boys.

It is like being worried about a barracuda to your right, while two great white sharks approach from the left.

William Eaton on April 10, 2014 at 3:58 PM

Weekly World News has its own web site.

corona79 on April 10, 2014 at 4:03 PM

The real question should be, why do the Palestinians need to be rewarded just to get them to negotiate? And why are the Israelis willing to give the Palestinians those rewards just to get them to negotiate?

J.S.K. on April 10, 2014 at 2:33 PM

The answer to the first question is simple: the Palestinians won’t negotiate at all without rewards up front because they know that Israel will never agree to the conditions they are supposedly negotiating about; everyone knows this, but the Theater of the Absurd keeps going because the Western Left is not about to give up on an opportunity to continually berate Israel over their “intransigence” and it makes them look like the “reasonable” side because they are trying to make peace.

The answer to the second question is similar, only dealing with the Israeli Left, and is in this article cited above.

http://carolineglick.com/a-chance-to-move-on/

cbenoistd on April 10, 2014 at 2:17 PM

Olmert’s fall and Ashkenazi’s fall coincide with the implosion of the so-called peace process. For the past generation, allegiance to the phony peace process with the PLO has been the glue that has held the Left together. No matter how opposed to concessions the public became, the leftist establishment maintained its faith and total commitment to continued appeasement of the PLO. In large part they did so because allegiance to the peace process earned them the support and legitimization of the US.

In the absence of any capacity to win the public’s support for continued concessions to the PLO, the Left has used its close ties to the US as a shield from criticism and as valuable leverage against the government. Only the Left, it was said, could protect Israel’s alliance with the US.

Back in January, Defense Minister Moshe Ya’alon let the truth be known about the nature of Secretary of State John Kerry’s peace process.

In private remarks reported by Yediot, Ya’alon said, “There are no actual negotiations with the Palestinians. The Americans are holding negotiations with us and in parallel with the Palestinians. So far, we are the only side to have given anything – the release of murderers – and the Palestinians have given nothing.

This week, Kerry proved that Ya’alon’s statement was a gross understatement. The US is not acting as a go-between between the sides. It is acting as the PLO’s proxy.

Oh, and about those murderers –

I’m not in favor of a release because I’m not in favor of any trades that release terrorists. Jewish law forbids paying ransoms because it only encourages further kidnapping.

sultanp on April 10, 2014 at 3:06 PM

The boat sailed on that a long time ago; Israel (and every other nation) has been doing prisoner swaps and hostage exchanges for decades, because the citizens won’t let the government take the harder, rationally correct, stand — which is much easier to proclaim in the abstract than to enforce when real people’s lives are on the line.

AesopFan on April 10, 2014 at 4:10 PM

I really am so disgusted with the State Dept. low ebb, low ebb for America…

djl130 on April 10, 2014 at 4:19 PM

The point SHOULD BE that the concession of releasing Pollard is the kind of grand gesture we might make in recognition of a final deal, NOT a mere incentive to get the “talks going again,” as they are clearly going NOWHERE as long as the PA won’t agree to recognize Israel’s right to exist.

And any Palestinian leader who says that is on the table will find his head on the table in the morning, assuming they can find it at all.

Adjoran on April 10, 2014 at 4:38 PM

Hasn’t the Pollard card been used in the past with no positive results.

crosshugger on April 10, 2014 at 4:55 PM

Why should a traitor like Pollard rot in prison when we have so many traitors just like him in high places of our government that we do not have the stomach to prosecute?

savage24 on April 10, 2014 at 4:58 PM

Obama has done far more harm to us that Pollard by any measure. The islamist in chief bargains with Pollards life to harm Israel. Who is the real enemy?

Rea1ityCheck on April 10, 2014 at 8:24 PM

Akzed on April 10, 2014 at 1:55 PM

Amen.

rlwo2008 on April 10, 2014 at 9:14 PM

Where’s the apology for posting a “breaking” hoax?

corona79 on April 11, 2014 at 1:26 PM

Why are we attempting to bribe Israel with this POS. Aren’t they supposedly on our side? Don’t we give them 3 billion a year?

V7_Sport on April 12, 2014 at 11:56 PM