Video: Knife-wielding student wounds 20 at PA high school

posted at 12:01 pm on April 9, 2014 by Ed Morrissey

Armed with two knives, a 16-year-old student at Franklin Regional High School in Murraysville, Pennsylvania attacked his classmates this morning. Four students are in critical condition, while the suspect is in custody — after having been tackled by an assistant principal to end the attack:

Multiple people were stabbed at a high school in the suburbs east of Pittsburgh, officials said.

Emergency management spokesman Dan Stevens said four students were believed to be seriously injured when a student with a knife stabbed or slashed others, injuring as many as 20.

Stevens said not all of the 20 injured were cut by the knife, though most were. Some suffered scrapes and cuts in the mayhem that ensued at Franklin Regional High School on Wednesday morning. Stevens says it doesn’t appear any students suffered life-threatening injuries.

While Stevens said all the injured are between 14 and 17 years old, hospital officials told CBS Pittsburgh the patients they were taking in from the incident range from 15 to 60 years old.

The FBI also responded to the scene, but are emphasizing that they are in a support role only. This will be a local investigation.

The number of potential victims might have been higher, but a quick-thinking student hit the fire alarm. Another saved one of the severely-wounded victims by staying with her and keeping pressure on the injury to keep her from bleeding out:


ABC US News | ABC Business News

Alyssa Finch, who said she is a student at Franklin Regional High School, told ABC News a fellow student pulled the fire alarm during the stabbing “because he knew what was happening … and he wanted the people to get out.”

KTLA in Los Angeles picked up on the story of the assistant principal’s action:

WTAE has raw video of the suspect:

ABC continued its coverage with updates on medical treatment for the victims. All eight of the seriously wounded will need surgery, and three of them needed it immediately:


ABC US News | ABC Business News

Pray for the victims. If readers want to help, one way would be to contact your local Red Cross for blood donations, or contributions.

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Section 7-406.1 of the Newtown Public School District Student Policies web portal, entitled “Camera surveillance on School Grounds” states that “Camera surveillance equipment will be used to view and possibly download surveillance footage of incidents which may have occurred” and that “Surveillance data will be stored for a period of five days.”

Akzed on April 9, 2014 at 7:32 PM

Go look up the word “possible” in the dictionary.

JetBoy on April 9, 2014 at 7:38 PM

.

But I do want to point out that Switzerland is so highly socialistic that the country is throwing the idea around of offering a assured income of $2800 to its citizens. Needless to say Switzerland has a high standard of living and very little poverty. I’m sure this contributes to their low crime rate.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 7:23 PM

LOl :) the banking capital of the world is socialistic :), the country where, according to OECD, the burden of government spending is lower than in the US (the public sector there consumes only 33.1 percent of economic output in Switzerland, compared to 41.1 percent of GDP in the US), the country witht he toughest immigration policies in Europe, the country that makes it most difficult for foreigners to get welfare benefits (by the way, dummy, Swiss cantons deport foreigners who live solely on welfare) – is SOCIALISTIC loool :)…gawd, I wish the US were as ‘socialistic’ as Switzerland :)…

jimver on April 9, 2014 at 7:40 PM

YouTube is your main source for this baloney? Once again, that explains a lot. JetBoy on April 9, 2014 at 7:21 PM

I don’t put much faith in CNN generally, but they captured a grieving dad smirking and having to read lines about his daughter from a card. “Do I read from the card?” Grinning, smirking, getting into character, no tears. Not one. No red eyes, no involuntary facial muscle movements.

This was the first thing I saw that made me start to think that something wasn’t quite right. This man is acting.

Akzed on April 9, 2014 at 7:50 PM

Remember I’m not arguing that gun control will solve the problem of gun homicide. Just that it will alleviate somewhat the issue of mass homicides.

But, what is really relevant at the end? The homicide/crime rate or if the victims died in a group? The crime rate in the UK skyrocketed after the gun band. If you read my piece, Mad Dogs and Englishmen, you will learn that there were around 8,000 stabbings per year…just from pint glasses. Now, many pubs pull a pint into pint ‘plastics.’ The rape rate in the UK versus the US is staggering and, as one who has already ‘taken one for the gun control team,’ I’m shooting first and asking questions later.

As to why Switzerland has such a low crime rate despite liberal guns I can’t offer a definitive answer.

The answer will get you called ‘RAAAAAAAAAAACIST!’ In fact, if you remove urban shootings in the US, you’ll see that the US homicide rate is actually on par with most of the countries to which gun control advocates point. I hate to even write this fact because it leaves me open to being called a ‘racist’ and I am anything but a racist. The problem is cultural…and, until we fix that, punishing lawabiding citizens to try to reduce the crimes that will be committed by those that have already proven that they are willing to break laws is just leaving the innocent and powerless defencive against those that would harm them.

Furthermore, with regard to gun massacres in the US, if you look at the facts of the cases, you’ll see that most have people saying ‘You know, I’m really not surprised. The kid was always a little off’ AFTER the incidents. Of course, maybe the US shouldn’t have started emptying its mental institutions and relaxing its mental health laws to such a laughable degree in the 1960s and 70s. You see, according to people like the ACLU, the severely mentally ill have a ‘right’ to live amongst us. If they choose not to seek treatment or fail to take their medications, it is a LIFESTYLE CHOICE. There was a famous case concerning a seriously disturbed woman in Manhattan that went around urinating and defecating everywhere. The ACLU won her case. It was her ‘right’ and ‘lifestyle choice’ to leave her bodily fluids all over public areas regardless of the health risks to everyone else.

But I do want to point out that Switzerland is so highly socialistic that the country is throwing the idea around of offering a assured income of $2800 to its citizens.

The referendum is likely to be defeated, but let’s be clear: the idea isn’t new. Shit, even Republicans were seriously considering supporting a AGI in the early 1970s. While I am a libertarian and would vote today to end all welfare programmes, if we are going to be forced to support people one way or another, I think that I’d rather an AGI than the panoply of welfare programmes that we have today. Everyone gets the same amount each month from the government and that. is. it. Those that blow through their cheques at the liquor store, casino, nail salon, or t1tty bar in the first week of the month are SOOL. And, of course, those that aren’t willing to live on the ‘comfortably numb’ income provided by the government can go out and make as much bloody money as they possibly can. Oh, and I don’t want to hear about ‘victimhood’ anymore if we do it because, personally, I agree with Ben Franklin: The best way to help the poor is to make them uncomfortable in their poverty.

Needless to say Switzerland has a high standard of living and very little poverty. I’m sure this contributes to their low crime rate.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 7:23 PM

I’m sure it does, too, but going back to what makes the US essentially different from Switzerland is the culture. I don’t want to sound like a ‘cultural warrior’ such as Bill O’Reilly or Pat Buchanan (because I’m not), but it is undeniable that, unless we fix our societal problems, we will continue to have a high crime rate even if we confiscated every gun.

Not too long ago, I was watching some public school kids and it struck me that many, if not most, are the children of unwed mums, who were born to unwed mothers themselves. If you want to increase your odds of being poor, be born to an unwed mother, especially a young one. The stats don’t lie.

Resist We Much on April 9, 2014 at 7:52 PM

This was the first thing I saw that made me start to think that something wasn’t quite right. This man is acting.

Akzed on April 9, 2014 at 7:50 PM

Yes, dear dr Freud (or shall I say Dr Seuss :), we forgot that you have the monopoly knowledge over how shocked people should react to the news of deaths of family members…plus, we all know that everybody reacts in the exact same way…

jimver on April 9, 2014 at 7:56 PM

If this is a double post, I apologise. Something is triggering the sensor and it is too long for me to go word-by-word trying…

Remember I’m not arguing that gun control will solve the problem of gun homicide. Just that it will alleviate somewhat the issue of mass homicides.

But, what is really relevant at the end? The homicide/crime rate or if the victims died in a group? The crime rate in the UK skyrocketed after the gun band. If you read my piece, Mad Dogs and Englishmen, you will learn that there were around 8,000 stabbings per year…just from pint glasses. Now, many pubs pull a pint into pint ‘plastics.’ The rape rate in the UK versus the US is staggering and, as one who has already ‘taken one for the gun control team,’ I’m shooting first and asking questions later.

As to why Switzerland has such a low crime rate despite liberal guns I can’t offer a definitive answer.

The answer will get you called ‘RAAAAAAAAAAACIST!’ In fact, if you remove urban shootings in the US, you’ll see that the US homicide rate is actually on par with most of the countries to which gun control advocates point. I hate to even write this fact because it leaves me open to being called a ‘racist’ and I am anything but a racist. The problem is cultural…and, until we fix that, punishing law-abiding citizens to try to reduce the crimes that will be committed by those that have already proven that they are willing to break laws is just leaving the innocent and powerless defencive against those that would harm them.

Furthermore, with regard to gun massacres in the US, if you look at the facts of the cases, you’ll see that most have people saying ‘You know, I’m really not surprised. The kid was always a little off’ AFTER the incidents. Of course, maybe the US shouldn’t have started emptying its mental institutions and relaxing its mental health laws to such a laughable degree in the 1960s and 70s. You see, according to people like the ACLU, the severely mentally ill have a ‘right’ to live amongst us. If they choose not to seek treatment or fail to take their medications, it is a LIFESTYLE CHOICE. There was a famous case concerning a seriously disturbed woman in Manhattan that went around urinating and defecating everywhere. The ACLU won her case. It was her ‘right’ and ‘lifestyle choice’ to leave her bodily fluids all over public areas regardless of the health risks to everyone else.

Resist We Much on April 9, 2014 at 7:56 PM

P

rior to Newtown, these were the world rankings for primary or elementary school massacres:

#1. Erfurt, Germany, 2002, 18 were killed.

#2. Dunblane, Scotland, 1996, 16 kindergarteners and their teacher were shot.

#3. Winnenden, Germany, 2009, 15 murdered.

#4. Columbine, 1999, leaving 13 killed.

#5. Emsdetten, Germany, 2006, 11 murdered.

Germany has very strict gun laws. In fact, the German laws are far stricter than existing gun control in the US, or the restrictions that are routinely discussed here.

Resist We Much on April 9, 2014 at 6:13 PM

Good post. My rebuttal to that would be that Germany could have had even more mass shootings had their gun laws not been so restrictive. Hate to keep repeating myself but as far as I know Australia the only example we have of a first world country going from liberal to restrictive gun laws and it seems to have a positive outcome when it comes to reducing mass murders. As today’s school attack points out, it’s not enough to have murderous intent, you have to have the right tools to carry out that intent. Yes you can steal guns and commit mass murders. But a least restrictive gun laws can add another barrier and deterrent to would be murders.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 7:57 PM

LOl :) the banking capital of the world is socialistic :), the country where, according to OECD, the burden of government spending is lower than in the US (the public sector there consumes only 33.1 percent of economic output in Switzerland, compared to 41.1 percent of GDP in the US), the country witht he toughest immigration policies in Europe, the country that makes it most difficult for foreigners to get welfare benefits (by the way, dummy, Swiss cantons deport foreigners who live solely on welfare) – is SOCIALISTIC loool :)…gawd, I wish the US were as ‘socialistic’ as Switzerland :)…

jimver on April 9, 2014 at 7:40 PM

“Swiss look to go all in on socialism, assure income to everyone even without working” Allah Pundit.

Lol your not going to win this argument.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 8:04 PM

Good post. My rebuttal to that would be that Germany could have had even more mass shootings had their gun laws not been so restrictive.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 7:57 PM
</blockquote

Hasn't anybody in the public school system that you probably attended ever told you not use counterfactual arguments cuz they make you look stupid…oh, wait….pls show us how do you quantify that. that Germany could have had more mass shooting had their gun laws not been restricted…

jimver on April 9, 2014 at 8:06 PM

Damn this is pizzing me off!

Part II:

But I do want to point out that Switzerland is so highly socialistic that the country is throwing the idea around of offering a assured income of $2800 to its citizens.

The referendum is likely to be defeated, but let’s be clear: the idea isn’t new…even Republicans were seriously considering supporting an AGI in the early 1970s.

While I am a libertarian and would vote today to end all welfare programmes, if we are going to be forced to support people one way or another, I think that I’d rather an AGI than the panoply of welfare programmes that we have today. Everyone gets the same amount each month from the government and that. is. it. No ‘free’ healthcare. No food stamps. No childcare. No welfare. Nothing else.

Resist We Much on April 9, 2014 at 8:07 PM

There is a photo of a blonde baby boy with his hair sticking straight up all over. I wish that I could find it because it is what I am looking like right now.

Part III:

Those that blow through their cheques at the liquor store, casino, nail salon, or strip club in the first week of the month are so out of luck. And, of course, those that aren’t willing to live on the ‘comfortably numb’ income provided by the government can go out and make as much bloody money as they possibly can.

Oh, and I don’t want to hear about ‘victimhood’ anymore if we do it because, personally, I agree with Ben Franklin: The best way to help the poor is to make them uncomfortable in their poverty.

Needless to say Switzerland has a high standard of living and very little poverty. I’m sure this contributes to their low crime rate.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 7:23 PM

I’m sure it does, too, but going back to what makes the US essentially different from Switzerland is the culture. I don’t want to sound like a ‘cultural warrior’ such as Bill O’Reilly or Pat Buchanan (because I’m not), but it is undeniable that, unless we fix our societal problems, we will continue to have a high crime rate even if we confiscated every gun.

Not too long ago, I was watching some public school kids and it struck me that many, if not most, are the children of unwed mums, who were born to unwed mothers themselves. If you want to increase your odds of being poor, be born to an unwed mother, especially a young one. The stats don’t lie.

Resist We Much on April 9, 2014 at 8:10 PM

There is a photo of a blonde baby boy with his hair sticking straight up all over. I wish that I could find it because it is what I am looking like right now.

Part III:

Those that blow through their cheques at the liquor store, casin0, nail salon, or strip club in the first week of the month are so out of luck. And, of course, those that aren’t willing to live on the ‘comfortably numb’ income provided by the government can go out and make as much bloody money as they possibly can.

Oh, and I don’t want to hear about ‘victimhood’ anymore if we do it because, personally, I agree with Ben Franklin: The best way to help the poor is to make them uncomfortable in their poverty.

Needless to say Switzerland has a high standard of living and very little poverty. I’m sure this contributes to their low crime rate.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 7:23 PM

I’m sure it does, too, but going back to what makes the US essentially different from Switzerland is the culture. I don’t want to sound like a ‘cultural warrior’ such as Bill O’Reilly or Pat Buchanan (because I’m not), but it is undeniable that, unless we fix our societal problems, we will continue to have a high crime rate even if we confiscated every gun.

Not too long ago, I was watching some public school kids and it struck me that many, if not most, are the children of unwed mums, who were born to unwed mothers themselves. If you want to increase your odds of being poor, be born to an unwed mother, especially a young one. The stats don’t lie.

PS: FFU, the word ‘casin0′ is banned. **eyeroll**

Resist We Much on April 9, 2014 at 8:12 PM

Go look up the word “possible” in the dictionary.
JetBoy on April 9, 2014 at 7:38 PM

This means that the recorded footage may be taken from one format and stored in another. How can something be downloaded to format B. if it hadn’t first been recorded in format A.?

I don’t think there was any footage to download because the school appears not to have been in use.

Question 4: Why was there, during the event, a blinking road sign across from the firehouse that read, “EVERYONE MUST CHECK IN”? Check in for what?

Akzed on April 9, 2014 at 8:15 PM

“Swiss look to go all in on socialism, assure income to everyone even without working” Allah Pundit.

Lol your not going to win this argument.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 8:04 PM

That is just a proposal by the Socialist party in switzerland, idiot, everybody with knowldge of how the Swiss vote know it will never pass, they hardly got the signatures to get it on the ballot…here, for your enlightenment, this past Nov the Swiss rejected as too extreme a proposal to cap top salaries at 12 times that of a company’s lowest-paid worker. Is this the same socialist country you are talking about?

jimver on April 9, 2014 at 8:17 PM

Look at Australia, after several mass shootings the country enacted strict gun control. The result is that they haven’t had a gun massacre since.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 5:42 PM

The Australian laws were enacted after a shooting in 1996. But despite those laws, there was a shooting at a University there 6 full years later.

Monash University Shooting.

Del Dolemonte on April 9, 2014 at 5:49 PM

This is what Wikepedia has to say about the effects of Australia gun control laws.

Measuring the effects of firearms laws in Australia[edit]
Changes in social problems related to firearms over time[edit]
Historically, Australia has had relatively low levels of violent crime. Overall levels of homicide and suicide have been in decline for several decades, while the proportion of these crimes that involved firearms has consistently declined since the early 1980s. Between 1991 and 2001, the number of firearm-related deaths in Australia declined 47%.[25] According to a 2011 report from the Australian government, “…the number of victims of homicide has been in decline since 1996″. There were 354 victims in 1996, but only 260 victims in 2010, a decrease of 27 percent. Also, “The proportion of homicide victims killed by offenders using firearms in 2009–10 represented a decrease of 18 percentage points from the peak of 31 percent in 1995–96 (the year in which the Port Arthur massacre occurred with the death of 35 people, which subsequently led to the introduction of stringent firearms legislation).”

Firearm suicides have fallen from about 22% of all suicides in 1992[26] to 7% of all suicides in 2005.[27] Immediately following the Buyback there was a fall in firearm suicides which was more than offset by a 10% increase in total suicides in 1997 and 1998.[citation needed] There were concerted efforts in suicide prevention from this time and in subsequent years the total suicide rate resumed its decline.

The number of guns stolen has fallen from an average 4,195 per year from 1994 to 2000 to 1,526 in 2006–2007. Long guns are more often stolen opportunistically in home burglaries, but few homes have handguns and a substantial proportion of stolen handguns are taken from security firms and other businesses; only a tiny proportion, 0.06% of licensed firearms, are stolen in a given year. Only a small proportion of those firearms are recovered. Approximately 3% of these stolen weapons are later connected to an actual crime or found in the possession of a person charged with a serious offence.[28]

I would also like to point out that the shooting in 2002 only had two deaths, while tragic, wasn’t really a mass homicide.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 8:26 PM

My rebuttal to that would be that Germany could have had even more mass shootings had their gun laws not been so restrictive.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 7:57 PM

You mean that it would have snagged more than 3 of the top 5 spots in the world in 7 years if they didn’t have some of the most restrictive gun laws anywhere…and have forevah, especially since the Weimar Republic and Nazi decades.

Hate to keep repeating myself but as far as I know Australia the only example we have of a first world country going from liberal to restrictive gun laws and it seems to have a positive outcome when it comes to reducing mass murders.

In 2009, more than 180 people were massacred in Australia.

As today’s school attack points out, it’s not enough to have murderous intent, you have to have the right tools to carry out that intent. Yes you can steal guns and commit mass murders. But a least restrictive gun laws can add another barrier and deterrent to would be murders.

So simple even a caveman could have done it.

Hint: It burns.

Now, let’s talk about suicides since they make up a large percentage of the fatalities from guns in the US every year.

Quick! Who has a higher suicide rate: the United States or Japan?

Even quicker! Which country makes it nearly impossible for its citizens to get a gun?

Most quickly! What else can kill you?

Think: trains, poison, and heights. Those are (or were the last time that I looked, which was last year) the 3 main manners of suicide in Japan.

South Korea has the highest suicide rate amongst OECD countries and firearms of any kind are illegal to posses by any citizen.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/world/suiciderate.html

Lastly, when you look at suicides, you’ll find that they are often highest in some of the ‘happiest’ countries on the planet…like Denmark, which as I am sure you are aware is ‘highly socialised.’

If people want to kill – themselves or others – they find a way and that, my friend, is just the sad reality.

Resist We Much on April 9, 2014 at 8:28 PM

This is what Wikepedia has to say about the effects of Australia gun control laws.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 8:26 PM

What does Wikipedia tell us about the effects of arson and bushfires?

Maybe, they should ban matches and lighters.

Oh, and to be on the safe side, sticks and rocks. We wouldn’t want anyone rubbing them together.

Resist We Much on April 9, 2014 at 8:31 PM

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 7:23 PM

Slic I think you are having it fisted errr handed to you./

You little puzzy. GTFO . Go somewhere else. Maybe Africa.

CW on April 9, 2014 at 8:36 PM

I think Slic lives in some dream world where America doesn’t already have 300,000,000 guns.

CW on April 9, 2014 at 8:37 PM

That is just a proposal by the Socialist party in switzerland, idiot, everybody with knowldge of how the Swiss vote know it will never pass, they hardly got the signatures to get it on the ballot…here, for your enlightenment, this past Nov the Swiss rejected as too extreme a proposal to cap top salaries at 12 times that of a company’s lowest-paid worker. Is this the same socialist country you are talking about?

jimver on April 9, 2014 at 8:17 PM

Yes the same socialistic country that has universal healthcare. From wikepdia

“Swiss are required to purchase basic health insurance, which covers a range of treatments detailed in the Swiss Federal Law on Health Insurance (ger: Krankenversicherungsgesetz (KVG); fre:’ la loi fédérale sur l’assurance-maladie (LAMal); ita: legge federale sull’assicurazione malattie (LAMal)). It is therefore the same throughout the country and avoids double standards in healthcare. Insurers are required to offer this basic insurance to everyone, regardless of age or medical condition. They are not allowed to make a profit off this basic insurance, but can on supplemental plans.[2]

The insured person pays the insurance premium for the basic plan up to 8% of their personal income. If a premium is higher than this, the government gives the insured person a cash subsidy to pay for any additional premium.[2]“

Your not going to win this argument. While Switzerland may be less liberal then her European neighbors if the democrats suddenly adopted Switzerland governmental policies as their party platform Republicans would scream socialism at the top of their lungs.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 8:37 PM

If people want to kill – themselves or others – they find a way and that, my friend, is just the sad reality.

Resist We Much on April 9, 2014 at 8:28 PM

Asking a liberal to deal with reality is almost sacrilegious…

jimver on April 9, 2014 at 8:38 PM

Firearm homicides
Deaths per 100,000 population: 3.7
 
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/homicide.htm

AIDS and HIV
Deaths per 100,000 population: 3.1
 
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/aids-hiv.htm

 
So Ric, should HIV+ citizens be registered and controlled in order to save similar numbers of people from death each year?
 
rogerb on April 9, 2014 at 6:09 PM

 
Your using a false analogy. There is a big difference between inanimate objects and human beings.
 
Ric on April 9, 2014 at 7:08 PM

 
Are you reading another website? Who is discussing inanimate objects? You established the “ownership” position earlier:
 

gun ownership should be a privilege and not a right just like driving a car
 
Ric on April 9, 2014 at 5:17 PM

 
That was you, right?
 
Regardless, let’s see if you’ll stick with your new position.
 
8,369 AIDS deaths / 11,078 gun deaths = 0.755
 
AIDS deaths match 76% of gun death totals.
 

Of coarse repealing the second amendment won’t stop all mass shootings but it would save many lives.
 
Ric on April 9, 2014 at 5:17 PM

 
Now, where were we? Oh, yes.
 
Should HIV+ citizens have their current constitutional rights removed in order to save many lives?

rogerb on April 9, 2014 at 8:39 PM

I think they will name Wikipedia….Ricipedia.

CW on April 9, 2014 at 8:40 PM

jimver

Don’t forget that alcohol is an inanimate item, too.

Resist We Much on April 9, 2014 at 8:43 PM

The reality is that Slic’s dic will not be stopped. Something about so many gay men. They’re so willing to infringe on everyone’s lives…. but when it comes to them getting some….no way. Even if it means “saving lives”…

CW on April 9, 2014 at 8:46 PM

I think they will name Wikipedia….Ricipedia.

CW on April 9, 2014 at 8:40 PM

Lol alright that one made me laugh.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 8:46 PM

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 8:37 PM

Lol :) Do you even know what socialism is??? Copying and pasting from from wikipedia is not a substitue for understanding the concepts that you throw around…Yes, Swizterland has universal health care, but that does not a country socialist make…They do not have socialized healthcare there, it is not government provided, like say, in, Canada. What does this mean exactly? It simply means that the Swiss citizens buy insurance for themselves; there are no employer-sponsored or government-run insurance programs. The insurance prices are transparent to the beneficiary. Their government only defines the minimum benefit package that qualifies for the mandate. Critically, and just so you understand why their system is not socialized, all packages require beneficiaries to pick up a portion of the costs of their care (deductibles and coinsurance)….so no, silly this is not socialized medicine which is by definition part of the socialist worldview…obviously you grapple with simple concepts…

jimver on April 9, 2014 at 8:51 PM

CW on April 9, 2014 at 8:40 PM

Okay…that was funny!

Gots to admit our little energizer bunny is going strong. For once both his right and left hands will be equally tired! Who knows, maybe he will accidently type freedom in his trousers browser one day. Dude seems okay to me.

HonestLib on April 9, 2014 at 8:54 PM

jimver

Don’t forget that alcohol is an inanimate item, too.

Resist We Much on April 9, 2014 at 8:43 PM

Yet strangely I become very animated after I ingest some :)

jimver on April 9, 2014 at 8:54 PM

I’m sure it does, too, but going back to what makes the US essentially different from Switzerland is the culture. I don’t want to sound like a ‘cultural warrior’ such as Bill O’Reilly or Pat Buchanan (because I’m not), but it is undeniable that, unless we fix our societal problems, we will continue to have a high crime rate even if we confiscated every gun.

Not too long ago, I was watching some public school kids and it struck me that many, if not most, are the children of unwed mums, who were born to unwed mothers themselves. If you want to increase your odds of being poor, be born to an unwed mother, especially a young one. The stats don’t lie.

PS: FFU, the word ‘casin0′ is banned. **eyeroll**

Resist We Much on April 9, 2014 at 8:12 PM

Yah in the US when you adjust for income and education ect one study I looked at showed that your were as twice as likely to go to jail if you came from a single household instead of a two parent home. So for sure they’re social and cultural issues to homicides via guns. So we can at least agree on that. Going to take off for a bit, have a good night everybody.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 8:58 PM

Gots to admit our little energizer bunny is going strong. For once both his right and left hands will be equally tired!
HonestLib on April 9, 2014 at 8:54 PM

Whoa, dude! Where’d that come from? lolz

Resist We Much on April 9, 2014 at 9:00 PM

Yah in the US when you adjust for income and education ect one study I looked at showed that your were as twice as likely to go to jail if you came from a single household instead of a two parent home. So for sure they’re social and cultural issues to homicides via guns. So we can at least agree on that. Going to take off for a bit, have a good night everybody.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 8:58 PM

Glad that we could find agreement on something. Good night.

Resist We Much on April 9, 2014 at 9:02 PM

Of coarse repealing the second amendment won’t stop all mass shootings but it would save many lives.
 
Ric on April 9, 2014 at 5:17 PM

 
Should HIV+ citizens have their current constitutional rights removed in order to save many lives?
 
rogerb on April 9, 2014 at 8:39 PM

 

Going to take off for a bit, have a good night everybody.
 
Ric on April 9, 2014 at 8:58 PM

 
Gosh, who could’ve seen that coming?

rogerb on April 9, 2014 at 9:03 PM

Lol :) Do you even know what socialism is??? Copying and pasting from from wikipedia is not a substitue for understanding the concepts that you throw around…Yes, Swizterland has universal health care, but that does not a country socialist make…

They are not allowed to make a profit off this basic insurance, but can on supplemental plans.[2]

Two points, one I wish all republicans held your viewpoint that having universal healthcare doesn’t make a country socialistic. Two If you look at the quote provided above, not being able to make a profit sounds awfully socialistic to me. Switzerland also heavily subsidizes their universities. For example the most expensive universities there can be attended by students for around 4000 dollars and the cheapest around 1000 dollars per year. I stand by my original assertion.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 9:08 PM

Gosh, who could’ve seen that coming?

rogerb on April 9, 2014 at 9:03 PM

I already answered your question up-thread. To reiterate, you’re making a false analogy. Human beings are guns are inherently different so you analogy is invalid. Come up with a better argument, the’re plenty of them as some of your fellow posters have shown.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 9:12 PM

To reiterate, you’re making a false analogy. Human beings are guns are inherently different so you analogy is invalid.
 
Ric on April 9, 2014 at 9:12 PM

 
Except we’re not discussing guns. We’re discussing constitutional freedoms. Again, a concept YOU introduced.
 

Of coarse repealing the second amendment won’t stop all mass shootings but it would save many lives.
 
Ric on April 9, 2014 at 5:17 PM

 
Should HIV+ citizens have their current constitutional rights removed in order to save many lives?
 
rogerb on April 9, 2014 at 8:39 PM

 
We’re just discussing freedoms. Care to try again, or do you want to want to put the goalposts somewhere else?

rogerb on April 9, 2014 at 9:15 PM

Of coarse repealing the second amendment won’t stop all mass shootings but it would save many lives.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 5:17 PM

Troll?

Or enemy of the state?

davidk on April 9, 2014 at 9:18 PM

However stricter gun control laws might have stopped James Holmes from carrying out his massacre in Colorado.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 6:49 PM

How so? He wasn’t a felon. It was the school that failed to notify the police about the psychiatrist’s warnings and, as far as I know without researching it, Colorado doesn’t have a law (or, at least, didn’t) that would have prevented a gun sale for someone, who had not been committed or had any due process whatsoever.

Don’t forget that the guy rigged his entire apartment with IEDs. If James Holmes hadn’t used a gun, he would have bombed the place.

Resist We Much on April 9, 2014 at 6:55 PM

Holmes made a point of going to a “gun-free zone” theater.

Less strict gun controls might have meant that the victims could have defended themselves instead of being sitting ducks.

slickwillie2001 on April 9, 2014 at 9:18 PM

This means that the recorded footage may be taken from one format and stored in another. How can something be downloaded to format B. if it hadn’t first been recorded in format A.?

I don’t think there was any footage to download because the school appears not to have been in use.

Question 4: Why was there, during the event, a blinking road sign across from the firehouse that read, “EVERYONE MUST CHECK IN”? Check in for what?

Akzed on April 9, 2014 at 8:15 PM

The front door camera wasn’t recorded! It was a simple feed to a monitor in the main office. The school was locked up after 9:30am…again, to gain entry, you had to ring the doorbell, show your ID to the camera and state why you are there, and get buzzed in. Schools were not required to record from every security camera…only “where possible”.

As for the “Everyone Must Check In” sign…it was provided by a company called Salamander Technologies, that specializes in emergency management accountability. In the hours after word of the shooting got around, reporters and news crews from around the country and beyond were coming to Newtown…not to mention all kinds of people showing up.

It’s absolutely normal to require everyone to check in at some location(s) nearby. At any crime scene, especially one of the magnitude of Newtown, you don’t want masses of people and crews milling all over the place, not knowing who they are.

Use your head for something other than driving nails into boards.

JetBoy on April 9, 2014 at 9:20 PM

Use your head for something other than driving nails into boards.

JetBoy on April 9, 2014 at 9:20 PM

You know that you’re in for it now. If it isn’t Alex Jones moonbat theories, it’s homosexual sex.

Tinfoil hat v lampshade. Either way, you’re (pardon the pun, I really don’t mean it personally) screwed. :-)

Resist We Much on April 9, 2014 at 9:28 PM

I would like to remind you that I have wrote repeatedly that restrictive gun laws won’t stop gun massacres, just reduce them. Among first world countries the US has by far the most mass homicides related to guns. Once again, Australia had a similar problem and their response of passing very restrictive gun laws seems to have worked.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 7:36 PM

Florida Update: Concealed Carry Permits Up, Violent Crime Down

Data Show Crime is Down Since Wisconsin Got Concealed Carry

More Guns Mean Less Crime

slickwillie2001 on April 9, 2014 at 9:30 PM

Are you also in favor of altering the First Amendment, so that some free speech is More Equal than other free speech is? If so, the former CEO of Mozilla would like a word!

Del Dolemonte on April 9, 2014 at 5:53 PM

Nope your more than welcome to your free speech Del Dolemonte, even if it’s illogical. I don’t think me pointing out how your thoughts are irrational

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 6:59 PM

ad hominem attack duly noted.

You’re dismissed.

Del Dolemonte on April 9, 2014 at 9:36 PM

…you analogy is invalid.
 
Ric on April 9, 2014 at 9:12 PM

 
Except we’re not discussing guns. We’re discussing constitutional freedoms. Again, a concept YOU introduced.
 
rogerb on April 9, 2014 at 9:15 PM

 
In all seriousness though, I look forward to reading your post tomorrow on why we need to rescind the rights of HIV+ citizens in order to reduce deaths.
 
Ha. Just kidding. I know the thread is dead. First time you’d seen the AIDS/guns numbers together, right? Scary and confusing, wasn’t it?
 
It must be so weird to have to learn about a topic at the same time you’re trying to convince everyone the earth is only 6000 years old. Hey, remember when you didn’t know that semi-autos weren’t machine guns until other posters explained it to you?
 
Good times.

rogerb on April 9, 2014 at 9:37 PM

Two points, one I wish all republicans held your viewpoint that having universal healthcare doesn’t make a country socialistic. Two If you look at the quote provided above, not being able to make a profit sounds awfully socialistic to me. Switzerland also heavily subsidizes their universities. For example the most expensive universities there can be attended by students for around 4000 dollars and the cheapest around 1000 dollars per year. I stand by my original assertion.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 9:08 PM

The Republicans call socialized care socialist, which is precisely that, and obamacare grossly incomoetent and the worst piece of legislation ever written, which is also precisely that. As for the Swiss subsidizing uni education, sure, as I pointed out in a previous post, maybe if the US govt didn’t use taxpayers money to subsidize stupid/looser projects, stupid people and/or illegal immigrants, who knows, maybe there would be more money left to subsidize high education for the indigenous population but as I already showed you the OECD stats, you should know by now that the burden of government spending is lower in Switzerland than in the US (the public sector there consumes only 33.1 percent of economic output in Switzerland, compared to 41.1 percent of GDP in the US). So, there, your uni money are lost somewhere in that 41%…looks more like a matter of how your liberal masters manage the public money, or shall I say mismanage them…

jimver on April 9, 2014 at 9:40 PM

Sandy Hook Elementary was nowhere near the size, both physically and number of students, of Columbine, you twit. I grew up in Fairfield County, CT not far from Newtown…it’s not exactly the South Bronx. Now go away.

JetBoy on April 9, 2014 at 7:21 PM

A casual zoom-in of the town on Google Earth will show you how rural most of Newtown is. Especially where the SH School is.

Del Dolemonte on April 9, 2014 at 9:42 PM

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 9:12 PM

Except we’re not discussing guns. We’re discussing constitutional freedoms. Again, a concept YOU introduced.

rogerb on April 9, 2014 at 9:15 PM

In all seriousness though, I look forward to reading your post tomorrow on why we need to rescind the rights of HIV+ citizens in order to reduce deaths.

Ha. Just kidding. I know the thread is dead. First time you’d seen the AIDS/guns numbers together, right? Scary and confusing, wasn’t it?

It must be so weird to have to learn about a topic at the same time you’re trying to convince everyone the earth is only 6000 years old. Hey, remember when you didn’t know that semi-autos weren’t machine guns until other posters explained it to you?

Good times.

rogerb on April 9, 2014 at 9:37 PM

Oh my, that’s a hilarious flashback. Tx.

slickwillie2001 on April 9, 2014 at 9:44 PM

Akzed on April 9, 2014 at 7:32 PM

First of all, the link you provide goes directly to a conspiracy website. What you should have done is gone to their hyperlink in the article to send us to the original document.

Your second problem is that when you go to the official Newtown document re. surveillance, the wording does not mandate where cameras should have been placed.

INCOMPLETE.

Del Dolemonte on April 9, 2014 at 9:47 PM

Latest from the local news: now 24 victims, including adult security guard who jumped the perpetrator. There are still some kids in critical condition, including one who almost died and is on life support in local trauma ICU. Suspect is a 16 yr old kid that people say was a quiet, nice, “nerdy” loner that may or may not have been bullied (kids are disagreeing on that). His parents have no idea about motive. Kid will be charged as an adult according to DA. FBI is here with a search warrant for his house- why? I though they were just here “as support” but looks like they’re taking over now. I still can’t help but feel bad for his parents.

You know, it has been a rough week or so here in Pittsburgh, after this and the crazy mom who drowned her two sons last week “to be a better mom to the oldest boy.” So sad.

ImmigrantsWife on April 9, 2014 at 9:51 PM

I should also mention that not all 24 injured people were stabbed by this kid. Some kids were injured while trying to get out of the school, i.e. fell, stepped on, sprained ankle, etc.

ImmigrantsWife on April 9, 2014 at 9:59 PM

Two points, one I wish all republicans held your viewpoint that having universal healthcare doesn’t make a country socialistic. Two If you look at the quote provided above, not being able to make a profit sounds awfully socialistic to me.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 9:08 PM

Your attempt at redefining socialism is hilarious…now, and I am talking in the real world, Switzerland is a country with a private-sector, market-based universal coverage, also the Swiss are among the wealthiest and most market-oriented people, yeah, so in other words, not socialist…at all..

jimver on April 9, 2014 at 10:12 PM

Who triggered the sensor?

SparkPlug on April 9, 2014 at 10:21 PM

Human beings are guns

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 9:12 PM

A++++++++++

Del Dolemonte on April 9, 2014 at 10:48 PM

As someone who lives in CT, I can tell you that a lot of schools didn’t have security cameras which automatically recorded. I know that the elementary schools in my town didn’t until pretty recently. (and perhaps not even now in all the schools.) It’s a little thing called “money” and most towns don’t have enough. Every department, including the schools has to prioritize, and replacing the roof or the heating system may come out ahead of upgrading the camera system. If the building is unfit to use, there’s no point in any sort of security, never mind upgrading it.

As for the Life Star choppers, as has been mentioned above, finding someplace safe to park them would have been difficult; I’ve heard of medivacs having to park a half mile or more away depending on the location of the accident. Then there’s the time factor, given the short distance, ambulances make far more sense. Also, ambulances can carry more equipment, and are far, far safer for both the patients and the EMS personnel.
As a passenger or crew in a medivac your odds of dying per mile are much, much higher than ground transport.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/aviation/safety/medical-helicopter-safety-crashes

So, not enough safe space to land, the time to deploy medivac probably as long if not longer than ground, and safety? Why the hell WOULD they have had medivac there?

On the subject of today’s attack, years ago I was given a two day course on Management of Aggressive Behaviour, which covered everything from dealing with mildly upset folks to having someone come at you with a knife or gun. I probably remember the course better than I might have because the first day was Tuesday, Sept 11, 2001. We spent every break watching the news. The developers of the course said they had tried to sell it to the airlines, but had been blown off, because hi-jackers just want to change destination. Be that as it may, it’s probably something most school systems should think of running all their adult personnel through.

LibraryGryffon on April 9, 2014 at 11:39 PM

How very elitist of you lol. I think your you’re in a distinct minority even among hardcore conservatives.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 7:10 PM

Thank you. It w/b more just than getting rid of guns.

Schadenfreude on April 9, 2014 at 11:40 PM

Needless to say Switzerland has a high standard of living and very little poverty. I’m sure this contributes to their low crime rate.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 7:23 PM

Dang elitists!!!

Schadenfreude on April 9, 2014 at 11:41 PM

Everyone needs to remember that there is only one of me and several of you. So it’s going to take me a while to get to all of the arguments directed against me.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 6:52 PM

How funny and what a leftist whiner…have you ever heard us complain about “poor me, so much ‘fire’ is incoming?”. All leftists mope, all they do.

Good night.

Schadenfreude on April 9, 2014 at 11:52 PM

But I do want to point out that Switzerland is so highly socialistic that the country is throwing the idea around of offering a assured income of $2800 to its citizens. Needless to say Switzerland has a high standard of living and very little poverty. I’m sure this contributes to their low crime rate.
Ric on April 9, 2014 at 7:23 PM

We could have it as good as the Swiss, but we blow trillions over here on the military. Complete waste of money. We should have a self defense force, and the draft. Defend our own country and screw everyone else. It’s just hastening our downfall.

cimbri on April 10, 2014 at 12:02 AM

Now, let’s talk about suicides since they make up a large percentage of the fatalities from guns in the US every year.

Resist We Much

According to his own information, suicides went UP after Australia cracked down on guns. But I guess they’re not quite as dead since they didn’t use a gun.

We could have it as good as the Swiss, but we blow trillions over here on the military. Complete waste of money.

cimbri

Totally. Having a powerful military provides us with no benefits whatsoever. And did you know bigfoot is real? The leprechaun living under my bed told me so.

xblade on April 10, 2014 at 12:11 AM

Totally. Having a powerful military provides us with no benefits whatsoever. And did you know bigfoot is real? The leprechaun living under my bed told me so.

xblade on April 10, 2014 at 12:11 AM

Right now, our planes are flying over the Indian Ocean looking for the dead airliner and the dead passengers. The other day, a navy ship was used to save some dumb family out at sea. Millions blown daily by the military. It never ends.

cimbri on April 10, 2014 at 12:27 AM

What an awful thing to happen at a school. Again.

lexhamfox on April 10, 2014 at 12:29 AM

When will we pass laws that finally make it illegal for the mentally ill to buy kitchen knives?

DRayRaven on April 10, 2014 at 5:42 AM

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 5:17 PM

 
Should HIV+ citizens have their current constitutional rights removed in order to save many lives?
 
rogerb on April 9, 2014 at 8:39 PM

 
BTW
 

In 1994, the United States was home to about 200 million privately owned guns. Today, that number has ballooned to between 270 million and 300 million. That’s almost half of all privately owned guns worldwide, according to a new essay from the Brookings Institution.
 
http://hotair.com/headlines/archives/2013/07/17/americans-own-nearly-half-of-the-worlds-privately-owned-guns/

 
300 million guns in the U.S. Half of the worldwide total. I don’t want that to be missed, so I’m going to write it again and bold it for you.
 
Americans own half of ALL guns in the world.
 
Essentially one for each person, and we still have that few total homicides and injuries (not to mention mass shootings). And, as you keep avoiding, gun deaths are just a teensy bit higher than AIDS deaths.
 
I realize that may be scary and confusing, but, when you base your position on math and data, it’s remarkable to realize just how incredibly safe and responsible American gun owners are.

rogerb on April 10, 2014 at 8:55 AM

First of all, the link you provide goes directly to a conspiracy website. What you should have done is gone to their hyperlink in the article to send us to the original document.

The photo in question is at the top of the page.

Your second problem is that when you go to the official Newtown document re. surveillance, the wording does not mandate where cameras should have been placed. INCOMPLETE. Del Dolemonte on April 9, 2014 at 9:47 PM

Sheesh. Every visitor to the school rings a doorbell at the front where office staff would use a camera to verify the visitor’s identity and allow entry, like the regulation states. So, where was the camera? Where’s the footage?

Here’s the deal: check it out for yourself. It’s amazing how invested people are in the official MSM/govt story, getting testy and offering top-of-the-head explanations for highly unusual aspects of it they’ve never thought about or even heard of before – a trait usually found only among liberals.

Akzed on April 10, 2014 at 9:30 AM

Sheesh. Every visitor to the school rings a doorbell at the front where office staff would use a camera to verify the visitor’s identity and allow entry, like the regulation states. So, where was the camera? Where’s the footage?

Here’s the deal: check it out for yourself. It’s amazing how invested people are in the official MSM/govt story, getting testy and offering top-of-the-head explanations for highly unusual aspects of it they’ve never thought about or even heard of before – a trait usually found only among liberals.

Akzed on April 10, 2014 at 9:30 AM

See my comment:

JetBoy on April 9, 2014 at 9:20 PM

JetBoy on April 10, 2014 at 10:44 AM

Enjoy prison loser. You’ll be popular there. So you’ve got that.

Oh and of course he has “psychological issues”. What criminal doesn’t? That’s not an excuse for this heinous behavior for which the punishment should be punitive to deter similar acts. Because you know if he had used a firearm, right now we wouldn’t be speaking about his psychological state. We would be speaking about confiscating firearms and restricting their use by legal gun owners.

Second look by the Brady Center at a Kitchen Knife Division?

Marcus Traianus on April 10, 2014 at 10:58 AM

See my comment:

JetBoy on April 9, 2014 at 9:20 PM

JetBoy on April 10, 2014 at 10:44 AM

It won’t be any less lame the second time.

Akzed on April 10, 2014 at 11:11 AM

Second look by the Brady Center at a Kitchen Knife Division? Marcus Traianus on April 10, 2014 at 10:58 AM

Knife Rights.

Akzed on April 10, 2014 at 11:14 AM

We don’t need gun control, or knife control.

If we just outlaw bullying, none of these things would ever happen./

Spiders from Mars on April 10, 2014 at 11:21 AM

It won’t be any less lame the second time.

Akzed on April 10, 2014 at 11:11 AM

What a perspicacious, comprehensive, and erudite rebuttal. Well done!

JetBoy on April 10, 2014 at 11:47 AM

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 5:17 PM

 
Should HIV+ citizens have their current constitutional rights removed in order to save many lives?
 
rogerb on April 9, 2014 at 8:39 PM

 
I realize I killed the thread, but let’s do some math for the readers before it slips off the front page, shall we Ric?
 
Because we know your position
 
1) Mass-shooting deaths related to individuals having guns is so bad something must be done to reduce the number
 
2) near-identical deaths related to individuals having AIDS does not merit action in hopes of reducing the number,
 
3) ban mean looking black guns that function exactly the same way as not-mean looking pink guns with stickers of fuzzy kittens on them,
 
4) and repeal the 2nd Amendment to possibly save _ _ people a year killed in mass shootings
 
(Feel free to chime in if any of those are incorrect, but we’re simply using your posts for the info.)
 
Sorry to have to go on without you Ric, but we understand that this thread has become absolutely terrifying and damaging to your faith. Still, there’s no reason for others to not learn about the topic.
 
And, frankly, it’s not like we need you here since you weren’t the one relying on facts of the debate. We’d just like you to participate so you have a chance to explain how dinosaurs co-existed with man, puhraise gawd.
 
Oh, sorry. I meant “your side of the issue”.

rogerb on April 10, 2014 at 11:47 AM

realize I killed the thread
rogerb on April 10, 2014 at 11:47 AM

Hey, stop that! Killing threads is my “cup of tea”. Sheesh, whats a girl got to do around here to get some respct respect?

HonestLib on April 10, 2014 at 12:39 PM

Ha. Killing threads feels a bit like collecting merit badges, doesn’t it?

rogerb on April 10, 2014 at 12:44 PM

Ready for the math and science part, Ric?
 
Population of the US: 314 million
 
37% have guns.
 
0.37 * 314,000,000 = 116,180,000
 
So 37% of the population, or 116 million people, have guns. That’s a pretty big number, isn’t it? You’ll be surprised to learn it’s way over half of your earlier “licensed drivers” position you abandoned, too.
 
Math is neat, isn’t it? Now where were we?
 
Q- How many people get shot each year?
 
A- 100,000
 
100,000 people are shot (not just deaths but all injuries) each year.

rogerb on April 10, 2014 at 12:44 PM

100,000 people are shot (not just deaths but all injuries) each year.

rogerb on April 10, 2014 at 12:44 PM

Of the 100,000…..seems to me they fall into a few broad categories.

Accidental shootings.

Suicide.

Legal use like self protection.

Felon, criminal, and mental health shootings.

Legal citizens with legal firearms participating in criminal activity for first time.

Point is that the last category of legal citizens is less than 1% of all shootings, but all the current proposed gun control restrictions only target that group? Is gun control really about stopping deaths or about limiting the right to bear arms by the legal 99%?

Just thinking out loud and trying to use logic.

HonestLib on April 10, 2014 at 1:03 PM

Could have called the last group…Legal citizens with legal firearms getting caught participation in criminal activity for the first time, but I think you guys will get my point.

HonestLib on April 10, 2014 at 1:05 PM

It gets better. Or worse, I suppose. Hey Ric.

rogerb on April 10, 2014 at 1:10 PM

Here’s why the Dems want to confiscate our guns:
http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2014/04/10/expect-to-see-a-band-of-soldiers-militia-members-arrive-at-nevada-ranch/

This could get very interesting very soon.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2014 at 1:47 PM

My rebuttal to that would be that Germany could have had even more mass shootings had their gun laws not been so restrictive.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 7:57 PM

The problem with that argument is there’s no way to argue the negative; you need a “control group”, of a sort, in order to establish that a country with lax gun laws would fill that list of mass school shootings.

Now let me think… where can we find a country with (classically) liberal rights to self-defense, with both a large enough population and a large enough quantity of guns to be a meaningful comparison… hhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm…….

The Schaef on April 10, 2014 at 2:38 PM

mass shootings

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 5:17 PM

mass shootings

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 5:42 PM

gun massacres.

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 5:42 PM

massacre

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 6:49 PM

massacres

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 6:49 PM

mass homicides

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 7:23 PM

massacres

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 7:36 PM

mass homicides

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 7:36 PM

mass shootings

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 7:57 PM

mass murders

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 7:57 PM

 
Just so everyone knows what we were discussing.
 
Ready for some more math, Ric?

rogerb on April 10, 2014 at 2:56 PM

Remember I’m not arguing that gun control will solve the problem of gun homicide. Just that it will alleviate somewhat the issue of mass homicides.
 
Ric on April 9, 2014 at 7:23 PM

 
There have been about 1056 mass shooting victims since 1982 (note that date, btw).
 
Let’s go ahead and make it 1200 as of 4-10 (ha) -14 even though we know that’s inflated. The higher numbers boost your argument, so you shouldn’t mind.
 
Oh, wait. You said homicides. There were only 549 of those. Let’s make it 700, though, and again just to help your side of the argument.
 
Ready for the math, Ric?

rogerb on April 10, 2014 at 3:06 PM

Remember I’m not arguing that gun control will solve the problem of gun homicide. Just that it will alleviate somewhat the issue of mass homicides.
 
Ric on April 9, 2014 at 7:23 PM

 
2014-1982 = 32 years
 
1200 total injuries / 32 years = 38 total mass shooting injuries per year
 
Oh, wait, sorry. You said you were worried about alleviating somewhat the issue of mass homicides. Let’s see…
 
700 homicides / 32 years = 22 total mass shooting homicides per year.
 
22 mass homicides per year.
 

If stricter gun control laws could stop even half of the massacres from happening I think they would be worth while.
 
Ric on April 9, 2014 at 6:49 PM

 
Half of 22 is 11.
 
So you want to repeal the 2nd Amendment to save eleven people a year?

 
In a nation of 314,000,000 people, you want to amend the Constitution to “alleviate” something that a single Budget rental car wreck will cancel out each year?
 
(It’s neat how your earlier driver’s license point keeps coming back up, isn’t it?)
 
Puhraise gawd, Ric. Tell us again how the earth is only 6000 years old.

rogerb on April 10, 2014 at 3:08 PM

Just so everyone knows what we were discussing.

Ready for some more math, Ric?

rogerb on April 10, 2014 at 2:56 PM

I want to laugh, but the fact that someone that stupid walks free among us scares the crap out of me. I don’t want to share the roads with a genuine glittering jewel of ignorance like that. He’s a public danger.

Murphy9 on April 10, 2014 at 3:54 PM

rogerb on April 10, 2014 at 3:08 PM

Just to expand the scope a bit -

From FBI:
All Murders in 2011
Total 12,664
Total firearms: 8,583
Handguns 6,220
Rifles 323
Shotguns 356
Other guns 97
Firearms, type not stated 1,587
Knives or cutting instruments 1,694
Blunt objects (clubs, hammers, etc.) 496
Personal weapons (hands, fists, feet, etc.)728
Poison 5
Explosives 12
Fire 75
Narcotics 29
Drowning 15
Strangulation 85
Asphyxiation 89
Other weapons or weapons not stated 853

If we eliminated ALL knives and cutting instruments – we could save 1694 people per year.
If we eliminated ALL bunt objects – we could save 496 people per year.
If we eliminated ALL hands, and feet – we could save 728 people per year.
So – what exactly is the threshold for attempting to completely eliminate some inanimate object to “save a few lives”?

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2014 at 5:05 PM

rogerb on April 10, 2014 at 3:08 PM

BTW – How many shootings did NOT become “mass shootings” because someone with a gun stopped the criminal before it got to the “mass shooting” threshold?

There are many, but I can point to one that I know of personally, because it happened a few miles from my house – New Life Church in Colorado Springs in 2007. 2 teenage girls killed and 3 others injured in the parking lot, but the shooter was stopped (shot) just inside the church entryway by a church member with a concealed carry handgun, who had volunteered to work security. The shooter was stopped about 100 feet short of access to another 400 or so potential victims inside.

That COULD have been the story of Sandy Hook if the Principal or some other staffer had been allowed to be armed – and able to stop the shooter at the front door.

dentarthurdent on April 10, 2014 at 5:16 PM

Ric on April 9, 2014 at 6:49 PM

So you want to repeal the 2nd Amendment to save eleven people a year?

rogerb on April 10, 2014 at 3:08 PM

 
So we determined that 116 million people have guns (37% of the population) and those people cause 100,000 injuries and 11,000 deaths each year.
 
Ready for the fun part, Ric? Say, have you figured out why I said this yet?
 

…since 1982 (note that date, btw).
 
rogerb on April 10, 2014 at 3:06 PM

 
I wonder what happened around 1982?
 

1.1 million people in the United States are living with HIV infection
 
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/statistics/basics/ataglance.html#ref3

 
1,100,000 / 314,000,000 = 0.0035
 
0.0035 * 100 = 0.35%
 
Thirty five one hundredths of one percent of the U.S. population is HIV+
 
(Hint: That equals less than 1% of the “have guns” population.)
 
We already know that same 35/100ths of 1% “has HIV” population is responsible for almost identical numbers of deaths as the “has guns” 37% population, but are you ready to discuss injuries, Ric?
 
From the same CDC link:
 

HIV Incidence (new infections): The estimated incidence of HIV has remained stable overall in recent years, at about 50,000 new HIV infections per year.

 
50,000 new HIV injuries each year.
 
Remember the amount of injuries from the “has guns” population?
 
100,000, wasn’t it?
 
Fully half the amount of “has guns” injuries and deaths from 35/100ths of 1% of the population.
 
Read that again.
 
They manage to match, and exceed, half the amount of injuries and deaths as the “has guns” crowd.
 
Wow.

rogerb on April 10, 2014 at 9:11 PM

As long as we’re here…
 

but are you ready to discuss injuries, Ric?

 
Won’t someone please think about the children?!?!!
 

More than 1.1 million people in the United States are living with HIV infection, and almost 1 in 6 (15.8%) are unaware of their infection.
 
h t t p ://www.cdc.gov/hiv/statistics/basics/ataglance.html

 

There are more than 8,000 children who are born to HIV-infected mothers each year in the United States.
 
h t t p ://www.childrensnational.org/DepartmentsandPrograms/default.aspx?Type=Dept&Id=372&Name=Infectious%20Disease&SubType=ConditionOrTreatment&SubId=83&subname=HIV/AIDS

 

An HIV-positive mother who is not being treated for her HIV during pregnancy, labor, or delivery has a 25% chance (1 in 4) of passing the virus to her baby.
 
http://aids.gov/hiv-aids-basics/prevention/reduce-your-risk/pregnancy-and-childbirth/

 
Math time again, Ric.
 
0.158 unaware * 8000 pregnant mothers = 1264 unaware pregnant mothers
 
1264 unaware mothers * 0.25 chance of passing HIV to newborn = 316 HIV+ newborns
 
316 HIV+ newborns each year.
 
Let’s compare that to school shootings, shall we?
 

Since 1980, 297 People Have Been Killed in School Shootings
 
http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/map_of_the_week/2012/12/sandy_hook_a_chart_of_all_196_fatal_school_shootings_since_1980_map.html

 
So the “have HIV” population gives life/death sentences to 316 children, and newborn babies at that, every year (not to mention limiting their sexual life and what psychological damage comes along for the ride),
 
while the “have guns” population has killed 297 PEOPLE (not just kids) in the last 34 years.
 
And you want to restrict the freedoms of the “have guns” population.
 
Wow.

rogerb on April 10, 2014 at 9:24 PM

Let’s pause for a moment for some perspective. What else has been in the news lately…
 

Two points, one I wish all republicans held your viewpoint that having universal healthcare doesn’t make a country socialistic.
 
Ric on April 9, 2014 at 9:08 PM

 
Oh yeah, Obamacare. Thanks!
 
So
 
1.1 million “have HIV”
 
7.1 million (we’re told) have Obamacare
 
116 million “have guns”

rogerb on April 11, 2014 at 12:30 PM

Got your calculator out, Ric?
 

(Gunfire deaths 1981-2011) 1,007,171

We should note that these figures refer to all gun-fire related deaths — not just homicides, but also suicides and accidental deaths.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2013/jan/18/mark-shields/pbs-commentator-mark-shields-says-more-killed-guns/

 
Plus 2012-2014′s “have guns” number:
 

Using the most recent CDC estimates for yearly deaths by guns in the United States, it is likely that as of today, 4/11/2014, roughly 45,163 people have died from guns in the U.S. since the Newtown shootings.

http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/crime/2012/12/gun_death_tally_every_american_gun_death_since_newtown_sandy_hook_shooting.html

 
That was pretty nice of Slate to even make the estimate out through today, wasn’t it?
 
So 1,007,171 + 45,163 = 1,052,334
 
The “have guns” population, which is 16 times larger than the celebrated-for-its-massiveness 7.1M Obamacare signup population, is tied to 1,052,334 dead since 1982.
 
(Note that the number include suicides, which will give balance to a soon-to-come competitor.)
 
1,052,334 dead since 1981 from people who have guns.

rogerb on April 11, 2014 at 1:35 PM

So…
 
1.1 million “have HIV”
 
7.1 million possibly have Obamacare (a much celebrated and apparently massive number)
 
116 million “have guns”
 
Still got your calculator, Ric? Ready to finish it up?

rogerb on April 12, 2014 at 11:48 AM

And when asked on that thread to prove your moonbat Newtown claims with credible, multi-sourced evidence, you refused to do so. And also ignored our fact-based rebuttals to many of said claims, such as why there were not any “medicav” helicopters.

Now, tell us again about WTC Building 7…

Del Dolemonte on April 12, 2014 at 1:15 PM

You’re a liar. I’m on that thread now.

Akzed on April 12, 2014 at 1:31 PM

Akzed on April 12, 2014 at 1:39 PM

Deaths: An estimated 15,529 people with an AIDS diagnosis died in 2010, and approximately 636,000 people in the United States with an AIDS diagnosis have overall3. The deaths of persons with an AIDS diagnosis can be due to any cause—that is, the death may or may not be related to AIDS.
 
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/statistics/basics/ataglance.html

 
(See where the suicides being part of the “have guns” numbers balance out the HIV “any cause”? Frankly, your position is coming out way ahead since AIDS isn’t exactly renowned for its tendency to extend life spans.)
 
So the “have HIV” population (35/100ths of 1% of the U.S. population), which is 6.5 times SMALLER than the celebrated-for-its-massiveness 7.1M Obamacare population, is tied to 636,000 dead since 1981.
 
636,000 dead since 1981 from people who have HIV.

rogerb on April 12, 2014 at 2:02 PM

So let’s see, that’s
 
HIV- 35/100ths of 1% of the U.S. population tied to 636,000 deaths in the last 32 years
 
Gun owners- 37% of the U.S. population tied to 1,052,334 deaths in the same time span.
 
Those numbers are pretty close, aren’t they? What is that, about a 60% match in deaths with less than 1% of the total gun owner population? It would be impressive if it weren’t so tragic.
 
Hit the “clear” button on your calculator now, Ric.

rogerb on April 12, 2014 at 2:07 PM

Now let’s get to the one that tells the real story. From the previous link:
 

CDC estimates that 1,144,500 persons aged 13 years and older are living with HIV infection,

 
And we know 636,000 died, so that total (add them together) is 1,780,500 “have HIV” people.
 
So 1,780,500 people /636,000 deaths since 1981 = 2.8
 
Written another way, for every three “has HIV” people, one has died since 1981.
 
3:1

rogerb on April 12, 2014 at 2:11 PM

Written another way, for every three “has HIV” people, one has died since 1981.

3:1

rogerb on April 12, 2014 at 2:11 PM

 
Hey, you know what might be fun? Let’s see how that relates to the “have gun” population, too!
 
116,000,000 people +1,052,334 / 1,052,334 deaths since 1982 = 111
 
Written another way, for every one hundred and eleven “has gun” people, one
 
(it’s actually <1 (sorry, “less than one”), but it’s only fair to round it up since the AIDS number’s tenth was rounded up, too)
 
has died since 1982.
 
111:1

rogerb on April 12, 2014 at 2:14 PM

Want to have some more fun, Ric? Let’s imagine if the “have HIV+” population could be as safe as the <1% "have guns" ratio. Ready?
 
So that would be one "has HIV" death for every 111 people with HIV, right?
 
1/111 = 0.009
 
1,780,500 * 0.009 = 16,025
 
Sixteen thousand.
 
16,025 deaths since 1981 IF the “have HIV” crowd population could figure out a way to be as safe as the “have gun” population.
 
That would only be 2% of the actual “have HIV” death rate.
 
Two cents out of $1 vs. the thirty-three cents it actually is, if only they were safe like gun owners.
 
That’s amazing, isn’t it?

rogerb on April 12, 2014 at 2:18 PM

Gotta go Dell, look me up when you grow a pair. Otherwise I look forward to hit-and-run off-topic flames.

Akzed on April 12, 2014 at 2:19 PM

Let’s do the other way around, too, though. What if the “have gun” population were as dangerous as the “have HIV” population, Ric?
 
1/3 = 0.33
 
116,000,000 * 0.33 = 38,280,000
 
38 million deaths since 1982 IF gun owners posed the same risk as people with HIV.
 
That’s probably closer to what you thought believed for the “have gun” rate, right?
 
Pretty neat, isn’t it?

rogerb on April 12, 2014 at 2:25 PM

Bmore?

rogerb on April 12, 2014 at 2:26 PM

Little help on the page turn?

rogerb on April 12, 2014 at 2:27 PM

And when asked on that thread to prove your moonbat Newtown claims with credible, multi-sourced evidence, you refused to do so. And also ignored our fact-based rebuttals to many of said claims, such as why there were not any “medicav” helicopters.

Now, tell us again about WTC Building 7…

Del Dolemonte on April 12, 2014 at 1:15 PM

You’re a liar. I’m on that thread now.

Akzed on April 12, 2014 at 1:31 PM

Akzed on April 12, 2014 at 1:39 PM

Gotta go Dell, look me up when you grow a pair. Otherwise I look forward to hit-and-run off-topic flames.

Akzed on April 12, 2014 at 2:19 PM

You seriously don’t realize how stupid you just appeared by making these posts?

I was correct in my original assertion, because before I made that claim in the other thread Saturday 4/12 at 1:15 PM, you hadn’t posted on this thread for over 48 hours.

And you wonder why we laugh at you?

“MY BRAIN HURTS!”

Del Dolemonte on April 12, 2014 at 2:45 PM

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