House GOP quietly passes bill to expand coverage choices under ObamaCare

posted at 11:21 am on April 7, 2014 by Allahpundit

Well, they tried to do it quietly. It didn’t work out.

dr

Originally, O-Care placed caps on deductibles in plans offered by small businesses, which meant less flexibility for employers in what they could offer their workers. That’s bad news for young and healthy employees who don’t visit the doctor much and would have preferred a plan with low premiums and a higher deductible. It’s also bad news for people who use health savings accounts to make high deductibles more affordable. So, last week, the House leadership agreed to insert a provision in the “doc fix” bill (the one that “passed” via a rigged, bogus voice vote) to eliminate the cap. Business wanted it, Democrats wanted it, the Republican leadership wanted it — but did the House GOP rank and file want it?

Because the vote was so opaque and tainted, we’ll never know.

“Maybe you say it helps (Obamacare), but it really helps the small businessman,” said Rep. Phil Roe, R-Tenn., one of several physician-lawmakers among Republicans and an advocate of repeal…

It is unclear how many members of the House rank and file knew of it because the legislation was passed by a highly unusual voice vote without debate…

Asked if the legislation strengthened the law, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said, “I would hope so. I believe that” it does. He added, “So there are changes being made. But the Republicans have to get over if they hate ‘Obamacare’ and are going to repeal it,” he added.

Rory Cooper, a spokesman for House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, R-Va., said, “This is another in a series of changes to Obamacare that the House has supported to help save Americans from being harmed by the law, and we’re glad to see the President signed it into law.” Cantor was involved in negotiations on the legislation, which were overseen by Speaker John Boehner, R-Ohio, and Reid.

Lifting the cap is the first time the GOP’s cooperated with Democrats to make it easier for people to get coverage under O-Care. Which raises anew a question the party will be wrestling with until January 2017 (at least): If repeal is momentarily impossible, should Republicans work to improve the law to lighten the burden on Americans (“bide your time”) or should they demand that O-Care be implemented exactly as it was passed so that Americans can render a fully informed verdict on Democratic-led health care (“let it burn”)? Here’s Joel Pollak on the bide-your-time approach in October of last year, after the shutdown:

The problem is that a member of Congress has to face his or her constituents and explain what he or she is doing to help them–not in 2017, when the only realistic possibility for repealing Obamacare will arise, but today. It would be unacceptable for Rubio or Cruz to tell their constituents that the voters have to be taught a lesson. So they have to take some kind of action to “fix” Obamacare, while still pressing for its repeal.

And here’s DrewM in the “let it burn” camp, writing today about the GOP’s new O-Care fix:

The whole idea behind not “fixing” ObamaCare is that in order to do the heavy lifting of repealing it you need as many people angry about it as possible. If you start pealing off repeal supporters, you’re helping eliminate pressure to actually repeal the damn thing. But let’s be honest, “repeal” is just some BS Republicans tell people to win their votes. When push comes to shove, they will tinker with it and call it a day.

The risk in the “bide your time” approach is that the more comfortable you make O-Care for Americans, the harder it is to get people excited about repeal later. The risk in “let it burn” is that the more obstructionist you are, the easier you make it for Democrats to convince people that O-Care would be working just fine if not for Republicans blocking the necessary repairs. Which strategy is better? Back in October, defending the “defund” effort that led to the shutdown, Ted Cruz rejected the “let it burn” crowd’s proposal to get out of the way and let ObamaCare take effect in full, knowing that Republicans would only benefit from the backlash. “Basically inflict a bunch of harm on the American people and hope we benefit politically from it, what a terrible cynical approach,” said Cruz. “I’m not interested in seeing the American people suffer just because my party might benefit politically if they blame the Democrats for the foolish policies that have been imposed.” Here we are six months later and the law’s a political reality. Does that principle — ease the people’s suffering as much as you can — still hold or has the urgency to stop the law now that it’s taken root changed such that the GOP should oppose stabilizing “improvements” at all cost?


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10) Disregard all of the above…

vnvet on April 7, 2014 at 12:28 PM

True.

More practical: Be prepared for a nomadic life in the woods for an indefinite period.

Tsar of Earth on April 7, 2014 at 12:36 PM

Obama won’t let this pass but again the GOP can’t fix what’s shattered.

sorrowen on April 7, 2014 at 12:39 PM

Does that principle — ease the people’s suffering as much as you can — still hold or has the urgency to stop the law now that it’s taken root changed such that the GOP should oppose stabilizing “improvements” at all cost?

Cruz was absolutely right to erect the “teach the voters a lesson” nonsense. And yes, republicans have a duty to address their constituents needs, including the need for relief from the disaster that is Obamacare – particularly since many of their constituents never voted for it on the first place, though even if they had, it is not for the servants to presume to discipline their masters.

Having said all, that, however, I don’t see why any of that should justify “improving” Obamacare itself. Propose, along with the repeal of Obamacare, a massive payroll tax holiday, as a special “relief” measure for all the people, particularly the working poor, who have been hurt by this bill. Severe budget cuts for HHS, the IRS, and the ATF should be included as well, to help mitigate the costs of this.

RINO in Name Only on April 7, 2014 at 12:47 PM

Ok, I’m confused.

Why was this necessary at all? I thought the employer mandate has been postponed for 2 more years (illegally, of course). Why would small businesses need this “fix” to Obamacare?

Bitter Clinger on April 7, 2014 at 11:57 AM

I dunno but since Obama rules by executive fiat that changes every other day perhaps this is Boehner’s version of a Hail Mary until they can repeal it…which they can’t do until they win majorities in both the House and especially the Senate?

Even if Obama vetoes a repeal…there procedural ways around Obama’s veto?

Still reading up on it…

workingclass artist on April 7, 2014 at 12:51 PM

Propose, along with the repeal of Obamacare, a massive payroll tax holiday, as a special “relief” measure for all the people, particularly the working poor, who have been hurt by this bill[obamacare].

I was about to cross out “bill” and replace it with law, but despite the supreme court’s foolishness, the thing is still flagrantly unconstitutional, so perhaps I’ll leave it as is.

RINO in Name Only on April 7, 2014 at 12:51 PM

What is NOT to loathe about the gop leadership?

I despise them. They throw fake outrage out in their fundraising emails, facebook posts, tweets, etc. And want my freaking $$$$$?

I’ll never left another finger for the republican party unless it’s a proveable LIMITED GOVERNMENT CONSERVATIVE.

I’ve stopped listening to any of the pundit class (in print, on the radio, or on local or national television).

The Ruling Class doesn’t represent me, and that’s BOTH PARTIES.

A pox on both the Dems and the gop.

PappyD61 on April 7, 2014 at 12:54 PM

House GOP leadership: pricks!

Ward Cleaver on April 7, 2014 at 12:58 PM

DinaRehn on April 7, 2014 at 12:02 PM

There’s no fundamental difference if we are moving down the wrong path at 150mph as the craven progressive’s prefer, or if we move down that same path at 65mph as the feckless Boehner, Cantor, McCarthy, Ryan, McConnell, McCain, et al ‘Vichy GOP’ prefer to do.

We’re still moving down the wrong path – and will end up at the same dead-end. The only difference is when we arrive there. The GOPe seems to prefer kicking the can down the road…letting it be someone else’s responsibility to do the heavy lifting, to make the hard argument, to challenge / articulate / sell a counter vision and path.

It’s craven and cowardly – unless they fundamentally believe that the only difference between them and the progressives is that they will administer a ‘compassionate fascism’. Either way, they are part of the problem, not the solution.

Athos on April 7, 2014 at 12:20 PM

I cannot find anything in there on which to disagree with you.

To use and old phrase: You’re either with us or against us.

You’re either supporting the cause of liberty or working to destroy it.

The GOP leadership is ‘coming out of the closet’ on which way they stand on that score.

DinaRehn on April 7, 2014 at 1:00 PM

I dunno but since Obama rules by executive fiat that changes every other day perhaps this is Boehner’s version of a Hail Mary until they can repeal it…which they can’t do until they win majorities in both the House and especially the Senate?
Even if Obama vetoes a repeal…there procedural ways around Obama’s veto?
Still reading up on it…
workingclass artist on April 7, 2014 at 12:51 PM Obama is the only one who changes his law not legally or with actual meaningful executive orders. But he won’t pass this as he likes by the pants legislating of a “law” that only exists in his head so yeah….

sorrowen on April 7, 2014 at 1:01 PM

Boehner and Ryan to of the biggest POS RINOS in congress.

nobama1267 on April 7, 2014 at 1:02 PM

This country will cease to exist under Democrats and RINO Republicans.

nobama1267 on April 7, 2014 at 1:04 PM

AP

The provision itself was relatively minor. It eliminated a cap on deductibles for small group policies offered inside the law’s health care exchanges as well as outside; the cap was set at $2,000 for individuals and $4,000 for families.

Republicans said they sought it so small businesses can offer high-deductible plans that could be purchased by individuals who also have health savings accounts. These tax-preferred accounts are a long-time favorite of many Republicans, who say they give consumers greater control over their own health care.

The health law contains no deductible caps for individual plans or those offered by large employers, and the Department of Health and Human Services already had waived them for small businesses through 2015. The legislation means they will never go into effect.

Okay, I don’t get it. If HHS already waived the caps through 2015, why the need for the vote – at this point in time – to eliminate the caps permanently?

lynncgb on April 7, 2014 at 1:05 PM

Good to see there is still sanity alive in the GOP – some of them still axtually care about making good policy to help everyday americans.

Good on them.

Shame that they have to hide this from the majority of their supporters – but that’s what they get for spending the last 3 decades raising a generation of gop supporters who actually believe the BS extremism that they always knew was just populist crapola.

everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 1:07 PM

PappyD61 on April 7, 2014 at 12:54 PM

We’re supposed to stick with the GOP because they say we have no choice.

If we don’t support them we are going to lose the country.

They say we will lose if we go third party.

Well, if by their method we lose the country ANYWAY – by a slow strangulation of liberty versus a quick death.

DOES IT FREAKING MATTER ANYWAY?

[Pardon my yelling]

DinaRehn on April 7, 2014 at 1:07 PM

everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 1:07 PM

Question: Do you actually believe the BS you’re spewing or is it just an act?

DinaRehn on April 7, 2014 at 1:10 PM

everintelligent does not know irony.

Schadenfreude on April 7, 2014 at 1:12 PM

Good to see there is still sanity alive in the GOP – some of them still axtually care about making good policy to help everyday americans.
Good on them.
Shame that they have to hide this from the majority of their supporters – but that’s what they get for spending the last 3 decades raising a generation of gop supporters who actually believe the BS extremism that they always knew was just populist crapola.
everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 1:07 PM
What’s extreme is a inept president changing a broken law on a daily basis depending on his mood. Of course the “law” is in his head so yeah…the “law” does not exist only the idea of it does.

sorrowen on April 7, 2014 at 1:20 PM

They knew it was BS from the start, but they didn’t actually think so many of you would believe their childishly simplistic economic claims, which were always designed to hoodwink you guys into supporting their corporatist agenda.

Now they’re trapped by the very Ignorance Monster they created.

everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 1:22 PM

everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 1:07 PM

How many people will be helped by the socialist safety net when it collapses the economy?

DinaRehn on April 7, 2014 at 1:22 PM

They knew it was BS from the start, but they didn’t actually think so many of you would believe their childishly simplistic economic claims, which were always designed to hoodwink you guys into supporting their corporatist agenda.
Now they’re trapped by the very Ignorance Monster they created.
everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 1:22 PM
Typical liberal both economically and historically illiterate.

sorrowen on April 7, 2014 at 1:24 PM

Boehner to Drudge: We didn’t ‘expand’ Obamacare, we repealed a piece

Hey Bonehead, do you know how to tell the difference between an expansion and a repeal? The Democrats in Congress vote overwhelmingly for one of them.

Occams Stubble on April 7, 2014 at 1:24 PM

Guess the GOPe folks can add Professional Spelunker to their resumes, because they are EXPERT cavers.

Here’s what’s coming, so just get ready for it.

January of 2015, GOP takes control of the Senate. Thus will begin the GOPe’s lurch to the left.

They will FULLY buy into the DimocRat’s “fix” mantra. This will prevent them from being called bad names in the State-Run media, and will also screw over Conservatives and the American people. WIN WIN for the GOPe.

Next, as an encore, they will force Amnesty on America. For the same reasons I noted above.

Get ready folks, because that’s the plan for the GOPe.

Meople on April 7, 2014 at 1:25 PM

How many people will be helped by the socialist safety net when it collapses the economy?

It was deregulation and unfunded tax cuts and wars that has come closest to collapsing the economy back in 2008.

The safety net never has had even remotely that kind of effect.

everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 1:26 PM

It looks like the Republicans can see we’re going down and they want to get out of it what they can first. They’ll run for a foreign country with their money and leave us behind to pay for their criminality.

crankyoldlady on April 7, 2014 at 1:29 PM

deregulation and unfunded tax cuts and wars that has come closest to collapsing the economy back in 2008.

My goodness, it just regurgitates teh stoopid.

You aren’t fit enough to live in the first world honey.

Murphy9 on April 7, 2014 at 1:30 PM

everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 1:26 PM

Wrong. The collapse in 2008 was brought on by people like Dodd, Fwank, Schumer and “little” Dick Durbin, extorting lenders to grant huge mortgages to people that couldn’t even prove they were LEGAL CITIZENS let alone that they could or would pay for them at all.

Meople on April 7, 2014 at 1:32 PM

I’ve left the “let it burn” camp in favor of “burn them all”.

TexasDan on April 7, 2014 at 1:40 PM

everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 1:26 PM

You don’t have a clue, do you? It was the subprime mortgage crises and the collapse of the housing market that led to the economic crises of 2008. If deregulation played a role, you’d have to go back to the Clinton years and the repeal of Glass-Steagall. Of course, as a leftist, you’re committed to blaming tax cuts for everything. And blaming the economic collapse on wars? The biggest deficit run under Bush was about 450 billion. Way too much, but nothing compared to the trillion dollar Obama deficits.

TarheelBen on April 7, 2014 at 1:45 PM

“Basically inflict a bunch of harm on the American people and hope we benefit politically from it, what a terrible cynical approach,” said Cruz. “I’m not interested in seeing the American people suffer just because my party might benefit politically if they blame the Democrats for the foolish policies that have been imposed.”

Who is inflicting a bunch of harm on the American people? The American people are suffering because of ObamaCare — what part of that does Cruz not understand? The law itself, a monstrosity by any definition, is the primary concern — as a matter of principle! If the GOP benefits politically, it’s secondary. Is he conceding that the Republicans, not a single one of whom voted for ObamaCare, are culpable for the damage that’s been done or will be done in the future?

Good grief! The Republican Party certainly is a leaky vessel in which to put any hopes or confidence.

cheeflo on April 7, 2014 at 1:45 PM

I’ve left the “let it burn” camp in favor of “burn them all”.

TexasDan on April 7, 2014 at 1:40 PM

TexasDan, I’m telling you, the only way we’re ever going to get rid of the stench in Washington is to burn it down and start over.

Meople on April 7, 2014 at 1:45 PM

It was deregulation and unfunded tax cuts and wars that has come closest to collapsing the economy back in 2008.

The safety net never has had even remotely that kind of effect.

everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 1:26 PM

Please explain in detail how tax cuts can collapse an economy.

Chuck Schick on April 7, 2014 at 1:46 PM

I’m an original tea partier and I’m beginning to think that our side is becoming like the perpetually offended leftists.

How is this worth our attention? Worth our outrage? Worth our time?

It is a minor chess move in the overall scheme of things. It doesn’t change anything regarding our principles nor does it do The Weeper any favors. What it accomplishes is taking one little chip off the table, depriving the leftists of a talking point later in the year.

If y’all want burnout, which will cost us dearly in November, keep on doing knee-jerk.

platypus on April 7, 2014 at 11:48 AM

I hope you’re right. But can you name me one thing, anything, that the Republicans have done to earn our confidence and trust should they retain control of the House and take over the Senate this November? It seems like we see far more examples of them ganging up with the Dems to shove left-wing legislation down our throats than taking a stand or much less getting any conservative agenda through.

Under Boehner’s “leadership”, the Republicans have raised taxes, funded Obamacare, raised spending, eliminated the sequester, cut veterans’ benefits, attempted to “fix” Obamacare, and are now attempting to pass some sort of amnesty. If I didn’t know any better based on the results, I’d think Nancy Pelosi still held the gavel.

Doughboy on April 7, 2014 at 1:46 PM

everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 1:26 PM

Newsflash – it’s 2014.

Do you have any new national socialist talking points or do we have to settle for warmed over reruns?

DinaRehn on April 7, 2014 at 1:58 PM

everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 1:26 PM

Please explain in detail how tax cuts can collapse an economy.

Chuck Schick on April 7, 2014 at 1:46 PM

Those on the national socialist left will try to make the case that letting people keep what is theirs is somehow giving them something.

DinaRehn on April 7, 2014 at 2:01 PM

Maybe this is an act of love, too. The only yard stick I use is if Dingy Harry like it, then I’m against it.

Kissmygrits on April 7, 2014 at 2:02 PM

It was deregulation and unfunded tax cuts and wars that has come closest to collapsing the economy back in 2008.

The safety net never has had even remotely that kind of effect.

everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 1:26 PM

Please explain in detail how tax cuts can collapse an economy.

Chuck Schick on April 7, 2014 at 1:46 PM

He’s waiting everdiso, and I’m pretty sure the rest of us are as well. Please explain your rational.

DDay on April 7, 2014 at 2:03 PM

I mean you guys literally aren’t smart enough to realize that an unregulated free market never stays open, but always devolves into monopolies and oligopolies, it’s a fundamental rule of markets that guys just seem blissfully unaware of.

You guys don’t seem to understand that giving tax cuts to corporations won’t decrease consumer prices.

You guys actually seem to believe that the debt load is a serious danger to the US economy right now, even though not even the smallest forecasted effects of this manufactured debt crisis have ever become reality.

This is fundamental economics which you guys simply don’t know or understand.

Except that the guys that have been selling you their junk economics have always knownit was simplistic silliness designed only to line their own pockets.

They’re shocked and amused that so many of you have not only bought their BS, but have adopted it as a fundamental article of faith.

And why you’re frustrated and angry is because you guys are finally realizing that they don’t even believe it themselves. But OF COURSE they don’t believe it – it’s complete BS that they made up to gin up their populist support, not anything real that they would ever actually try to govern an economy with.

You guys have been used.

everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 2:09 PM

I mean you guys literally aren’t smart enough to realize that an unregulated free market never stays open, but always devolves into monopolies and oligopolies, it’s a fundamental rule of markets that guys just seem blissfully unaware of.
You guys don’t seem to understand that giving tax cuts to corporations won’t decrease consumer prices.
You guys actually seem to believe that the debt load is a serious danger to the US economy right now, even though not even the smallest forecasted effects of this manufactured debt crisis have ever become reality.
This is fundamental economics which you guys simply don’t know or understand.
Except that the guys that have been selling you their junk economics have always knownit was simplistic silliness designed only to line their own pockets.
They’re shocked and amused that so many of you have not only bought their BS, but have adopted it as a fundamental article of faith.
And why you’re frustrated and angry is because you guys are finally realizing that they don’t even believe it themselves. But OF COURSE they don’t believe it – it’s complete BS that they made up to gin up their populist support, not anything real that they would ever actually try to govern an economy with.
You guys have been used.
everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 2:09 PM
You use subjective and sophisticated hyperhole like the best of them.

sorrowen on April 7, 2014 at 2:11 PM

It was deregulation and unfunded tax cuts . . .

everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 1:26 PM

“Unfunded” tax cuts? Please explain how allowing people to keep more of their own money is something that must be paid for – or is a “cost” to the government.

TarheelBen on April 7, 2014 at 2:12 PM

Don’t ever trust the GOP! Stay home this November and destroy it.If you don’t they will only help the Democrats destroy America!If you are planning on the GOP to stop the socialist/progressives you are a fool!

redware on April 7, 2014 at 2:17 PM

You guys have been used.

everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 2:09 PM

So the debt collapsed the economy under Bush.

But there’s no danger now that Obama’s creating twice the debt Bush did.

You’re not even smart enought to manage your talking points within a single post.

Chuck Schick on April 7, 2014 at 2:17 PM

Now some will be able to maintain a Insurance Policy through their employer, at close to the same amount of employee premium, of course the deductible will now increase from $2000 / $4000 to $20000 / $40000. Just another step to Single Payer, brought to you by the GOPe.

Whiterock on April 7, 2014 at 2:22 PM

You guys have been used.

everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 2:09 PM

WE’VE been used? WE didn’t vote for Barack Obama. Are you going to tell me that Obama’s economic policies are working?

You guys actually seem to believe that the debt load is a serious danger to the US economy right now, even though not even the smallest forecasted effects of this manufactured debt crisis have ever become reality.
This is fundamental economics which you guys simply don’t know or understand.

OMG, this is so out-of-touch I’m not sure how to respond. Hello, Paul Krugman?

TarheelBen on April 7, 2014 at 2:25 PM

Please explain in detail how tax cuts can collapse an economy.

Chuck Schick on April 7, 2014 at 1:46 PM

Sure, if you need me to state the obvious, i will.

An economy is always in a delicate balance between a bubble and a recession.

When the economy slows, you inject capital into the market – through both spending cuts and tax cuts, even at the risk of a short term deficit – to get it motoring again.

When the economy is booming, you want to do the exact opposite and control capital inflows, encourage savings, balance the budget, regulate investements, else the economy inevitably falls prey to an inflationary bubble, which then inevitably pops.

Circa 2001, we had a booming economy and a balanced budget. The powers that be decided that was a good time to grant massive across thr board tax cuts, and inject huge amounts of capital into the market, all whilst pushing riskier and riskier investments.

And surprise surprise, we were led directly into the biggest bubble ever, which burst spectularly.

Modern free market lovers always get caught in this trap – when the market is going good, they think we should do everything to keep it accelerating….which always leads to the same disastrous result, whether its 1987 or 2007.

Just because a policy may work when things are tough, doesn’t mean that they’re still a good idea when things are rolling.

But then again, you guys never have been good at contextualizing things, you guys are much more comfortable with the one size fits all approach.

everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 2:25 PM

So the debt collapsed the economy under Bush.
But there’s no danger now that Obama’s creating twice the debt Bush did.
You’re not even smart enought to manage your talking points within a single post.
Chuck Schick on April 7, 2014 at 2:17 PM Ironically he is being used lol he is spouting talking points that everyone has heard before I certainly have then again his ecomnically illiterate mind functions can’t understand that regulations hurt people and businesses.

sorrowen on April 7, 2014 at 2:25 PM

everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 2:09 PM

So says the New Proletariat.

kingsjester on April 7, 2014 at 2:27 PM

everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 2:09 PM

To all here at HA. This nom, everdiso, is a lying leftist troll. Not even a US citizen. Not covered under 0Care, yet he preaches its talking points. Unless you just enjoy beating it, you may want to just pass by its comments.

Bmore on April 7, 2014 at 2:27 PM

Please explain in detail how tax cuts can collapse an economy.
Chuck Schick on April 7, 2014 at 1:46 PM
Sure, if you need me to state the obvious, i will.
An economy is always in a delicate balance between a bubble and a recession.
When the economy slows, you inject capital into the market – through both spending cuts and tax cuts, even at the risk of a short term deficit – to get it motoring again.
When the economy is booming, you want to do the exact opposite and control capital inflows, encourage savings, balance the budget, regulate investements, else the economy inevitably falls prey to an inflationary bubble, which then inevitably pops.
Circa 2001, we had a booming economy and a balanced budget. The powers that be decided that was a good time to grant massive across thr board tax cuts, and inject huge amounts of capital into the market, all whilst pushing riskier and riskier investments.
And surprise surprise, we were led directly into the biggest bubble ever, which burst spectularly.
Modern free market lovers always get caught in this trap – when the market is going good, they think we should do everything to keep it accelerating….which always leads to the same disastrous result, whether its 1987 or 2007.
Just because a policy may work when things are tough, doesn’t mean that they’re still a good idea when things are rolling.
But then again, you guys never have been good at contextualizing things, you guys are much more comfortable with the one size fits all approach.
everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 2:25 PM
No your for the one size fits all approach…you clearly neither understand economics or how regulations hurt people hell come to think all you do is attempt to talk in ” deep” ways that are not deep. And use meaningless hyperhole to try to sound intelligent…you fail at both of those.

sorrowen on April 7, 2014 at 2:29 PM

Sure, if you need me to state the obvious, i will.

An economy is always in a delicate balance between a bubble and a recession.

When the economy slows, you inject capital into the market – through both spending cuts and tax cuts, even at the risk of a short term deficit – to get it motoring again.

When the economy is booming, you want to do the exact opposite and control capital inflows, encourage savings, balance the budget, regulate investements, else the economy inevitably falls prey to an inflationary bubble, which then inevitably pops.

Circa 2001, we had a booming economy and a balanced budget. The powers that be decided that was a good time to grant massive across thr board tax cuts, and inject huge amounts of capital into the market, all whilst pushing riskier and riskier investments.

And surprise surprise, we were led directly into the biggest bubble ever, which burst spectularly.

Modern free market lovers always get caught in this trap – when the market is going good, they think we should do everything to keep it accelerating….which always leads to the same disastrous result, whether its 1987 or 2007.

Just because a policy may work when things are tough, doesn’t mean that they’re still a good idea when things are rolling.

But then again, you guys never have been good at contextualizing things, you guys are much more comfortable with the one size fits all approach.

everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 2:25 PM

So the economy somehow magically became self-aware in 2008, saw the tax cuts were still in effect completely against the liberal playbook, and collapsed.

That’s really what you’re going with?

Chuck Schick on April 7, 2014 at 2:29 PM

More proof that Thomas Donohue and the U.S. Chamber o Commerce controls the GOP.

bw222 on April 7, 2014 at 2:32 PM

sorrowen on April 7, 2014 at 2:29 PM

Just a word of advice. You should learn how to use the “quote” feature. Your posts will be much easier to read.

TarheelBen on April 7, 2014 at 2:33 PM

So the economy somehow magically became self-aware in 2008, saw the tax cuts were still in effect completely against the liberal playbook, and collapsed.

That’s really what you’re going with?

Chuck Schick on April 7, 2014 at 2:29 PM

If you’re really going to ignore the reality of uncontrolled large scale capital injections leading directly to inflationary bubbles, you’re only proving my point, not hurting it.

everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 2:35 PM

I like Ace but don’t ever read Drew M’s posts. He is a rightwing crazy…as are many of the conservative ideological purists who comment here.

How many people do you think you are going to bring to your side with the argument, “We don’t want ObamaCare at all, and our only answer is to eventually repeal it. In the meantime we don’t care that it is screwing up your business or your medical care.”

Despite Obama’s arrogant victory lap, no law is beyond repeal. Even the Constitution can be amended IF there is the will to do it.

But the will to repeal O-Care doesn’t now exist, and our elected officials’ highest responsibility is to look out for the welfare of this country’s citizens. It is morally unacceptable–which also means it ultimately makes no sense politically–to turn a blind eye to problems that are hurting the electorate just because you don’t believe in the law that is causing those problems.

Meredith on April 7, 2014 at 2:36 PM

everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 2:25 PM

The level of your ignorance of economics and history are only matched by your dogmatic embrace of a craven morally, ethically, and intellectually bankrupt ideology.

It’s similar to the claptrap from the ‘climate change’ evangelists – develop a ‘hypothesis’, then selectively create a fictional / fraudulent case to ‘justify’ and ‘prove’ the ‘hypothesis’.

Athos on April 7, 2014 at 2:48 PM

So basically, the Republicans have all but admitted that repeal is impossible
Aizen on April 7, 2014 at 11:34 AM

That is what Boehner wants you to believe. I do not believe he wants to repeal at all. I believe the Bush/Ryan/Boehner/Adelson/Zuckerberg crowd wants to be the other Democrat party so they are pandering to their NEW base, by dissing the old base

Boehner is King of the dirty Voice Vote. His best coup was using a dirty Voice Vote to change the rules at the 2012 GOP convention to give more power to the big shots to chose the 2016 candidate

Here is another example:

Facing defeat on a bill to head off major cuts to physicians who treat Medicare patients, House GOP leaders abruptly pulled it from the floor Thursday morning. They called a recess, sending most members back to their offices to await word on the schedule for the day.

Republican and Democratic leaders huddled behind closed doors. Then, a surprise move. While people were still in their offices, the same bill was brought up and quickly passed by a voice vote. Members were caught off guard when they showed up on the House floor and learned the bill had passed.

Both parties were in cahoots on the unusual legislative maneuver circumventing an actual roll call vote on the measure.

Texas Republican Louie Gohmert, speaking on the House floor later on Thursday, said he was convinced he and other opponents secured enough votes to block the short term deal so he went back to his office when the recess was called.

When the vote happened Gohmert didn’t make it back in time to object, and he decried the tactic, saying, “you need to be able to trust your own leadership.”

When they say Boehner ‘quietly passesa bill’ they really mean he is playing dirty and ramming it thru under the table. That is how he and Obama almost got Amnesty passed during the so called negotiations during the government shutdown. They were that close and a retreat was called, IMHO

entagor on April 7, 2014 at 3:03 PM

If you’re really going to ignore the reality of uncontrolled large scale capital injections leading directly to inflationary bubbles, you’re only proving my point, not hurting it.

everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 2:35 PM

Are you saying that the 2008 collapse was 100% a result of the 2003 Bush tax cuts for the rich?

Chuck Schick on April 7, 2014 at 3:06 PM

I’ve left the “let it burn” camp in favor of “burn them all”.

TexasDan on April 7, 2014 at 1:40 PM

Yeah, I’m well beyond ‘let it burn’, and deep into ‘help it burn’ territory. I like your version better though, I think.

Midas on April 7, 2014 at 3:16 PM

everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 2:35 PM

You are one deeply ignorant and economically illiterate crapweasel.

Midas on April 7, 2014 at 3:18 PM

everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 2:09 PM

To all here at HA. This nom, everdiso, is a lying leftist troll. Not even a US citizen. Not covered under 0Care, yet he preaches its talking points. Unless you just enjoy beating it, you may want to just pass by its comments.

Bmore on April 7, 2014 at 2:27 PM

Thanks, good advice.

I do wish we could have a user-controlled ban process – rack up enough votes, and you’re gone. Can’t adequately describe the depth of tired I am of the f*cking stupid libtarded trolls hijacking every. f*cking. thread.

Midas on April 7, 2014 at 3:20 PM

Yes, I see, rather than just shooting the small businessman you starve him to death.

rgranger on April 7, 2014 at 3:33 PM

Game- set- match. The Dems won. Its here forever now.

Enjoy dieing cuz that is what will happen. You will now get a pill and sent home to die. We are well on the way to single payer now.

GOP just got prints all over it, now the left will be able to hang this mess on THEM.

Good job GOP good job.

watertown on April 7, 2014 at 3:44 PM

I wonder if republicans realize once they start “fixing” obamacare they will own it.

lel2007 on April 7, 2014 at 3:51 PM

i understand the risks of the “let it burn” approach but i think it’s the best approach in the long run. the “bide your time” is the best approach for the short term. but eventually we are going to have to repeal the law.

The risk in the “bide your time” approach is that the more comfortable you make O-Care for Americans, the harder it is to get people excited about repeal later.

exactly. it makes no sense to try to improve the law now just so you can repeal it later. how are you going to convince people it should be repealed when you were previously trying help the law become better? seems contradictory. if you help the law become better, it just looks like you like and support the law.

Ted Cruz rejected the “let it burn” crowd’s proposal to get out of the way and let ObamaCare take effect in full, knowing that Republicans would only benefit from the backlash. “Basically inflict a bunch of harm on the American people and hope we benefit politically from it, what a terrible cynical approach,” said Cruz. “I’m not interested in seeing the American people suffer just because my party might benefit politically if they blame the Democrats for the foolish policies that have been imposed.”

i love cruz, but… what? how would “let it burn” be republicans’ fault?? the DEMOCRATS inflicted the harm. the DEMOCRATS are making americans’ suffer. cruz acts as if republicans doing the “let it burn” strategy would be hurting americans. but it’s the dems’ fault.

yes i know the msm would blame republicans. but we have to stand up to the msm and not let them trick americans into falling for their bs.

Sachiko on April 7, 2014 at 4:00 PM

Ever darlin,

I mean you guys literally aren’t smart enough to realize that an unregulated free market never stays open, but always devolves into monopolies and oligopolies, it’s a fundamental rule of markets that guys just seem blissfully unaware of.

explain to me how the system we had pre “Obamacare” and now post Obamacare isn’t already a heavily regulated system with oligarchies and monopolies? Have you ever tried to get a straight up bill from medical providers and insurance companies? Do those medical providers not charge different rates for services to different people/insurance companies? Yes, they do. They often collude with each other, which in any other industry they would be charged with felonies. Why has it been when I pay cash for some medical services I get better deals?

How odd that medical care prices have gone up and up since the 1960s, outpacing inflation. I wonder why that is? But what a great society we live in today!

Why can a US hospital charge a woman $30k for a anti-venom shot that cost the hospital $100 to import from Mexico? Oh, that would be US regulations. If the average person went down to Mexico and bought it for $100 and came back, the US gov would arrest them and put them in jail.

Go back to Krugman’s blog, I hear he’s hoping for alien invasions again to solve our problems.

oryguncon on April 7, 2014 at 4:16 PM

I’m not sure this was all that bad of a move???? If repealing Obamacare can be done one issue at a time; individual mandate, employer mandate, repealing cuts Medicare and Medicaid, repealing coverage mandates, …..

In the end our elected Congressmen and Senators owe it to us to save us from the wrath of this monstrosity any way possible.

Tater Salad on April 7, 2014 at 4:26 PM

Yup the big argument against a 3rd Party is that the Democrats will WIN and DESTROY THE NATION.

Heck you already have that problem with the Republican Leadership and the way it acts. You don’t need to form a 3rd Party to get that result.

The R Leadership supports Amnesty.

The R Leadership now wants to ‘help’ those suffering under Obamacare and thus make it barely sufferable and still a true horror.

No, wait, there must be something that the R Leadership does right once in awhile? Like, you know, support parliamentary maneuvers to stop horrific legislation? Oh, no, they didn’t do that when it was being utilized to stop Obamacare, either.

So, tell me again why a 3rd Party will make things worse than the D’s and the R Leadership as they act in concert and breathe together of the same air and have the same objectives? It is not what they say that matters, it is what they do: and that this had to be rammed through with little or no fanfare or even telling people what they were VOTING ON, should give you a hint right there.

ajacksonian on April 7, 2014 at 4:44 PM

Look, you people have a decision to make.

Boehner and McConnell have been elected and reelected to their leadership posts, as have most of their leadership teams, by overwhelming majorities of their Republican colleagues. Neither has been seriously challenged.

So if you truly hate them with a passion, it is really YOU who is the “RINO,” isn’t it? You don’t belong in this Party. Go start your own.

You obviously don’t care if Democrats win. Many of you openly wish for Republicans you don’t like to lose to Democrats, and that includes many in leadership.

Start your own party, elect your own leaders, and henceforth direct your incessant whining and complaining to them, not us, mmmkay?

Adjoran on April 7, 2014 at 4:48 PM

everdiso, what school of economics do you hail from, Paul Krugman?

Faramir on April 7, 2014 at 4:52 PM

FRom the tone of the entire thread, I must be missing something. I agree that I’m tired of the Rs sneaking things through. But in this case, the sneaky vote doesn’t seem worse. As a business owner, I can now carry high deductible plans (my choice).

It certainly doesn’t fix healthcare, but I like having choice. I don’t see that this vote delays the repeal of the law. It likely will cause more medical bankruptcies because of the outrageously high deductibles. Dems will try to use that to push for single payer; it is not markedly different from what we have now. They want single payer today. We have bankruptcies today. What’s the diff?

kpguru on April 7, 2014 at 4:53 PM

As much as I loathe Obama, I have come to loathe Boehner, Cantor, McCarthy and Ryan even more.

bw222 on April 7, 2014 at 5:34 PM

As a business owner, I can now carry high deductible plans (my choice).

kpguru on April 7, 2014 at 4:53 PM

The voice of the GOP establishment – as long as I can make more money ….

bw222 on April 7, 2014 at 5:36 PM

I’m not sure this was all that bad of a move???? If repealing Obamacare can be done one issue at a time; individual mandate, employer mandate, repealing cuts Medicare and Medicaid, repealing coverage mandates, …..

Tater Salad on April 7, 2014 at 4:26 PM

Only 13 days until the Easter Bunny comes. I bet you’re excited.

bw222 on April 7, 2014 at 5:39 PM

Cruz was absolutely right

RINO in Name Only on April 7, 2014 at 12:47 PM

Four words that never belong together.

MJBrutus on April 7, 2014 at 5:48 PM

Bw222,

I did not know that profit had become a dirty word. I am anti-GOPestablishment. I want them all to leave me the heck alone and run my business as I see fit. On this one vote, I fail to see that the return to offering choice was evil.

Politically, it’s likely stupid for them to begin playing with this radioactive law. They risk being tainted. But on its face value, the vote is not as anti-liberty as the law was previously.

kpguru on April 7, 2014 at 5:53 PM

The American people are suffering because of ObamaCare — what part of that does Cruz not understand?
cheeflo on April 7, 2014 at 1:45 PM

I see the Cruz haters are in full force. So your argument is it is better to fix Obozocare? No wonder you guys don’t have a clue on winning elections. Where were you in October 2013? Did you not see Cruz was excoriated by you Neocons for opposing Obozocare?

Brock Robamney on April 7, 2014 at 6:04 PM

Just hold your nose and vote to keep the leadership of the GOP in their jobs. You certainly don’t want to do anything to upset the apple cart. Jeb Bush is going to make a fine president. Or Hillary Clinton, or whatever. 6 of one, half a dozen of the other.

Hold your nose and vote the way you are told. You just don’t have a choice.

Another Libertarian on April 7, 2014 at 6:10 PM

Start your own party, elect your own leaders, and henceforth direct your incessant whining and complaining to them, not us, mmmkay?

Adjoran on April 7, 2014 at 4:48 PM

It’s possible that people will rise up and kick you out of that party you think you own. More likely every day, actually.

Another Libertarian on April 7, 2014 at 6:11 PM

Expand is a funny word, they are giving businesses more leeway, hardly an Expansion of Obamacare unless you are looking to pick a fight.

Fleuries on April 7, 2014 at 7:27 PM

Let the democrats fix their own mess. Why bother helping them out. I still don’t get it.

SouthernGent on April 7, 2014 at 7:30 PM

i love cruz, but… what? how would “let it burn” be republicans’ fault??

Sachiko

Because they would be sure to run around and tell everyone that it’s their fault, or will be their fault. Just like they do on everything else.

Start your own party, elect your own leaders, and henceforth direct your incessant whining and complaining to them, not us, mmmkay?

Adjoran

The bend over king has spoken.

xblade on April 7, 2014 at 7:33 PM

Let the democrats fix their own mess. Why bother helping them out. I still don’t get it.

SouthernGent on April 7, 2014 at 7:30 PM

The way I read this bill, is that the R’s voted to make more choices available to those who are left out in the wilderness by Obamacare’s stealth deadline.

I may be wrong, but I may be right. If this is what the R’s did, they need a better campaign or perhaps they just did the right thing and nobody noticed because there were not rubbers or tampons or abortions involved.

/Wacky Obama World

Key West Reader on April 7, 2014 at 7:47 PM

And the GOP got nothing out of it as usual, brilliant negotiating mind that Boehner.

WisCon on April 7, 2014 at 8:01 PM

Because the vote was so opaque and tainted, we’ll never know.

Fire them all and let God sort out the rest

faraway on April 7, 2014 at 8:11 PM

For all you Neocons who are high fiving this Boner move, the question is, if it is a republican victory, why did Obama sign it into law?

Brock Robamney on April 7, 2014 at 8:16 PM

For all you Neocons who are high fiving this Boner move, the question is, if it is a republican victory, why did Obama sign it into law?

Brock Robamney on April 7, 2014 at 8:16 PM

To save his skinny sucking azz. That’s why.

/Truth

Key West Reader on April 7, 2014 at 8:19 PM

Frankly, it’s rich that Cruz, the man who was the biggest supporter of wrecking the government from beginning to end, now says that his own method was “a terribly cynical approach.” I wonder if a little self-awareness is creeping into his Teahadi skull.

The next thing to creep into there should be .38 caliber.

BrianJ on April 7, 2014 at 8:21 PM

Calling for someone to be killed? Classy.

slickwillie2001 on April 7, 2014 at 8:23 PM

Many here have predicted that eventually Republicans would join Democrats to “fix” Obamacare.

Apparently it has begun.

The GOP is not the party of small government. It is the party of a little bit smaller government than what the government is never big enough socialists, AKA Democrats, want.

farsighted on April 7, 2014 at 8:32 PM

Frankly, it’s rich that Cruz, the man who was the biggest supporter of wrecking the government from beginning to end, now says that his own method was “a terribly cynical approach.” I wonder if a little self-awareness is creeping into his Teahadi skull.

The next thing to creep into there should be .38 caliber.

BrianJ on April 7, 2014 at 8:21 PM

Banhammer on aisle 5, please.

Midas on April 7, 2014 at 8:34 PM

Frankly, it’s rich that Cruz, the man who was the biggest supporter of wrecking the government from beginning to end, now says that his own method was “a terribly cynical approach.” I wonder if a little self-awareness is creeping into his Teahadi skull.

The next thing to creep into there should be .38 caliber.

BrianJ on April 7, 2014 at 8:21 PM

So you are calling for Cruz to commit suicide, correct?

Chuck Schick on April 7, 2014 at 8:37 PM

GOP: Party of Technocracy since 1860.

“Sure, the idea is fatally flawed, but we’re just the guys to forestall that catastrophic failure until it’s too late to turn back!”

spmat on April 7, 2014 at 8:38 PM

The next thing to creep into there should be .38 caliber.

BrianJ on April 7, 2014 at 8:21 PM

Don’t you just love the intolerant left? This site attracts more flaming a-holes like BrianJ by the day.

bw222 on April 7, 2014 at 8:40 PM

How can the Republicans that didn’t cast a single vote for this mess vote another add on. All are RHINO’s and we see what happens this November.

mixplix on April 7, 2014 at 8:49 PM

Frankly, it’s rich that Cruz, the man who was the biggest supporter of wrecking the government from beginning to end…

BrianJ on April 7, 2014 at 8:21 PM

Wait a sec, the government isn’t already wrecked?

You have a history of competence and lack of thorough corruption that I don’t know about?

Your politicians are idiots. Incompetent, corrupt, self-serving, self-glorifying, utterly and irrevocably flawed idiots. They are the distilled essence of everything that is grasping, envious and terrible about yourself. And you want them to rule you, your family and your community.

They hate you, Brianj. Obama, and Ted Cruz, and every other politician out there hate you. They hate you in every way that is meaningful. They tell you they will give you things. They never give you those things; at least not when you need them the most. They promise you things only because they need your support to get the power necessary to get them the things they want. They resent you, utterly and to the core of their being, for having even a vote’s worth of power over their tawdry desires.

Why do you want them to have power over you?

spmat on April 7, 2014 at 8:52 PM

Wow, what’s it take to get banned around here nowadays.

Someone owes SWalker an apology.

Midas on April 7, 2014 at 9:36 PM

So, tell me again why a 3rd Party will make things worse than the D’s and the R Leadership as they act in concert and breathe together of the same air and have the same objectives? It is not what they say that matters, it is what they do: and that this had to be rammed through with little or no fanfare or even telling people what they were VOTING ON, should give you a hint right there.
ajacksonian on April 7, 2014 at 4:44 PM

Indeed. People like Meredith will always vote team red. Good riddance to the rinos. They’ll have to do more than try to scare me with “because democrats” tactics. I’m voting for no one but conservatives and libertarians. The GOPe can go hug a root for all I care.

AH_C on April 7, 2014 at 9:53 PM

Heart attack or slow cancer-Youse takes yer pick…..

Don L on April 7, 2014 at 10:06 PM

Schadenfreude

Bmore on April 7, 2014 at 10:24 PM

Meow, Boehner is completely misunderstood. Or something.

Bmore on April 7, 2014 at 10:24 PM

unfunded tax cuts . . .

everdiso on April 7, 2014 at 1:26 PM

Oh. My. Gosh… This is the idiocy we are up against. The little brain dead leftists actually think like this and this is what our education system is churning out by the hundreds of thousands. And they all think they are so enlightened and like, smart, you know?

Doomed.

pannw on April 7, 2014 at 10:24 PM

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