Rand Paul on immigration: Republicans have got to get beyond deportation

posted at 1:21 pm on April 1, 2014 by Allahpundit

Before anyone excommunicates him from the GOP on grounds of RINOism, ask yourself: Will there be a single Republican candidate onstage next year at the debates who challenges him on this point? Don’t say Cruz. Cruz opposes a path to citizenship but he’s in line with Paul, Rubio, etc, on legalization and work permits, which are the truly important provisions. Once legalization is granted, citizenship will inevitably follow. (That’s why it’s crucial to secure the border first, to make sure that this amnesty is the last amnesty.) If Paul’s candidacy is DOA for taking this line, I’m not sure whose candidacy is still alive.

Besides, America is already largely “beyond deportation.”

During a symposium at the Newseum on conservative engagement with Hispanic media outlets, Paul also said Republicans have plenty of ideas that appeal to Latinos, but acknowledged, “We got to get beyond deportation to get to the rest of the issues.”

“The bottom line is that the Hispanic community, the Latino community, is not going to hear us until we get beyond that issue. They’re not going to care whether we go to the same church or have the same values or believe in the same kind of future of the country until we get beyond that. So showing up helps. But you got to show up and you got to say something and it’s has to be different than what we’ve been saying.”…

“I think one way to get the door ajar is say that you know, Mrs. Garcia’s nephew is not going to be sent home to Mexico,” he said. “You know, because everybody — even those who are here illegally — know somebody who is here who doesn’t have the proper visa.”…

Paul, who voted against last year’s Senate comprehensive immigration bill, expressed frustration that the bill still keeps it illegal for immigrants with certain visas to change jobs while in the United States. He gave an example of a migrant worker who came here with a legal visa to pick crops for $9 dollars an hour but later saw a construction job that paid $14 dollars an hour.

The most interesting part of that to me isn’t the deportation bit. After the beating Romney took for advocating attrition through enforcement, a.k.a. “self-deportation,” in 2012, no Republican with national ambitions is going to defend the D-word. The interesting part is that Rand is still kinda sorta pushing the “Latinos are conservatives but just don’t know it yet” line which, I thought, most people who follow politics now accepted was self-serving nonsense endorsed by GOP amnesty fans. More than one poll, including the national exit poll in 2012, show Latinos favoring gay marriage. Abortion is more complicated, but the same 2012 exit poll found that 66 percent of Latinos thought abortion should be legal compared to 59 percent of the overall population. Maybe that’s an artifact of higher turnout among Latino Democrats for Obama’s reelection bid or maybe it’s a more durable trend. As for Paul’s point about sharing a vision for the future of the country, here’s the reality from Pew circa April 2012:

pew

A Gallup poll taken two months later, in June 2012, showed a similar result. When asked whether government is doing too much or not enough, American registered voters overall split 57/37. Latino registered voters split 35/56. And so we return to the big question: Are these preferences more a product of firm ideological inclination or are they more a product of alienation from the GOP over immigration policy? Republicans don’t need to win a majority of Latinos to make Democrats’ lives difficult electorally — even a 40/60 split would be tough for the left — but the “ask” here in terms of legalizing 10+ million people is high given the uncertainty. Look back at the Pew poll and you’ll find a further complication: It’s younger Latinos and recent immigrants who are the furthest left politically. Is that because they’re alienated from the GOP in a way that older generations, which watched Reagan sign the 1986 amnesty, aren’t? Or is it because broader political trends, like the leftward drift and lesser role of religion among younger voters generally, have delivered them there? The problem is more or less fixable depending upon how you answer. Republican candidates, Paul included, have to take the “it’s our fault” line because they can’t afford to formally write off an entire demographic. The trick is convincing Republican base voters that it’s true.


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If it is too hard to deport the vast majority of them then it is too difficult to legalize the vast majority of them.

astonerii on April 1, 2014 at 4:14 PM

E-Verify for everyone. Stop the welfare and the ability to take jobs, they will go home. Getting back to x country, that’s their problem, not ours. Let Mexico deal with all the South Americans. You know they have a real keen southern border fence and strict immigration laws, that Mexico.

Cheese Wheel on April 1, 2014 at 3:58 PM

I’m aware Mexico does a better job securing their southern border than we do of securing ours. I consider it an embarrassment.

As for E-Verify, it’s great in principle but in practice… Do you know when SSN were first issued they swore up and down it wouldn’t ever be any type of national ID? E-Verify is several more steps down that path. An internet-accessible system that has every Americans vital personal information and a photograph (or whatever biometric data they decide to require in the future)? Nope, don’t see any way that could ever be misused.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 4:15 PM

Before anyone excommunicates him from the GOP on grounds of RINOism, ask yourself: Will there be a single Republican candidate onstage next year at the debates who challenges him on this point?

OK, I stopped and thought about that. And Rand Paul should be condemned anyway. Mass non-white immigration plus forced integration means the elimination of the white base, without which there is no conservatism. It won’t have that effect less if the whole GOP elite supports it. If they all support a fatal policy, they should all be condemned.

David Blue on April 1, 2014 at 4:16 PM

I’d like you to say it, knowing I consider this theory to be neither racist nor nativist…

JohnGalt23 on April 1, 2014 at 4:12 PM

I don’t care about being called racist. It ends in a hot war, not tomorrow, or the day after, but at some time in the future. Anybody who doesn’t see that possibility has normalcy bias.

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 4:16 PM

Mass non-white immigration plus forced integration means the elimination of the white base,

The HORROR!

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 4:17 PM

That’s no small task.

We are capable of big things and we have a track record proving that we can do big things.

For starters they’re not all Mexican

Not important. They are coming into our country from mehico and there is no way the curroptocrats in the mexican government are not active participants in pushing people from all over the world into the USA, Afterall, most of them landed in mexico before they sneak into USA.

so we can’t just run trains to Tijuana, dump them at the border and tell them not to come back.

Would these people walk or drive towards the US if they knew that they’d be shot ?

Finding them, rounding them up and identifying them is going to be a time consuming and very expensive process;

That’s why when you don’t let them in and feed them, you don’t have to find them later on. However , stop feeding them and their anchor babies, stop giving them the same previlages as a US citizen and stop letting them off everytime they commit crimes .
Ot doesn’t cost anything to enforce the current laws.

I

shudder to think about how many new government employees we’re talking about to attempt to tackle that.

Use the National Guards.
And volunteers.

We should enforce our laws but there’s nothing wrong with picking our battles, especially when we’re in a mess as big as the one we’re in now after nearly 30 years of neglect.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 3:54 PM

This battle can be won and if it ends up costing us a few million dollars , so what ? Think of what we’ll get in return for that investment –a clean and safe country.
It’s worth it .

burrata on April 1, 2014 at 4:17 PM

Well crafted argument you got there.

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 3:56 PM

You’re spewing hyperbolic nonsense. If you’re not in the mood to discuss the issue like a reasonable person then why should I deliver a thoughtful response?

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 4:17 PM

William Eaton,

This is only going to create more division and conflict in the “big tent” Democratic coalition. Someone will get thrown under the bus. Considering the Dems obsession with the Hispanic vote I suspect it will be Asians, mostly Chinese. Now remember some estimates have it that 10-20 million Chinese want to immigrate to the U.S. and if you know anything about Mexican history the last time Chinese and Mexicans interacted it did not end well.

Ha ! Very abstruse historical allusion. I wonder if anyone other than me even got it.

Yes, this is true, but then Democratic divisions don’t necessarily mean Republican gains. At best, it’s a long-term gambit that’s likely to change the governing philosophy of the GOP as much as it does that of the Democrats.

I kind of like having a small government party – even if that distinction is honored more in rhetoric than in the breach. I don’t want two big government parties, but that is where mass immigration will take us. Yes, the GOP will survive, but it will no longer resemble the kind of political party it is today.

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 4:18 PM

There needs to be greater outreach to minority voters and new groups to actually win a Presidential election.

Illinidiva on April 1, 2014 at 4:12 PM

What should this “outreach” consist of? Beating the lefties at giving things away?..inviting anyone over to break our laws? If not something along those lines, what?
Lefties, loving the destruction of America would actually like that tactic. Why wouldn’t they? “You give them that and we’ll offer them that and this….and a bag of chips.

Mimzey on April 1, 2014 at 4:18 PM

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 4:15 PM

Yeah, because they already do not have all that information.

astonerii on April 1, 2014 at 4:18 PM

I don’t buy into that “we’re not enforcing the law so we can’t enforce the law” b*******. Peddle that crap someplace else. We could shut down 50% of FedGov, use 25% of the laid off personnel to start enforcing immigration law, and still come out ahead in every respect given how much useless wasteful authoritarian crap FedGov does now.

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 3:58 PM

Are you just making those numbers up or do you have a source for them?

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 4:18 PM

Ironically, most of the egalitarian idealism that’s given rise to the current social chaos is actually an expression of WASP-ian philosophy.

vlad martel on April 1, 2014 at 4:18 PM

Great. Then I hope that you enjoy the high taxes, Obamacare, and European welfare state. These will be with us permanently.

Illiniditz

We already know you support those things. You wouldn’t want to hand democrats 40 million new voters otherwise.

xblade on April 1, 2014 at 4:19 PM

So… Are the repubs going with not deporting , instead amnesty, for anyone who came here illegally before 2014 BUT deport anyone who stays, or sneaks in, after 2014? Or is it no deportations till 2016/18/20? Whatever it is, the Dems will just up the ante. But still, I guess I won’t get an answer. And what of the poor illegals that are here in the shadows after 201? and after the amnesty. Aren’t they just as deserving as the ones that came the year before?

Also, if we can’t deport all illegal residents does it follow that we shouldn’t be deporting more illegal residents then we do now? Is that Paul’s contention. Is deportation of any illegal residents wrong? Or is it that we can’t deport ALL of them? We can’t catch everyone who runs a stop sign so should we stop trying to catch those that run stop signs?

BoxHead1 on April 1, 2014 at 4:19 PM

notice that I mentioned that they were an asset to America
Illinidiva on April 1, 2014 at 4:12 PM

I don’t see how draining the US of welfare payments, food stamps, free education, free health and such counts as an asset. Must be Common Core accounting.

whatcat on April 1, 2014 at 4:19 PM

You’re spewing hyperbolic nonsense. If you’re not in the mood to discuss the issue like a reasonable person then why should I deliver a thoughtful response?

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 4:17 PM

It’s too silly for you to actually make an argument, but you’re still going to keep replying, about how you’re not going to actually reply.

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 4:20 PM

The HORROR!

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 4:17 PM

A terribly ironic reference to Colonel Kurtz.

vlad martel on April 1, 2014 at 4:20 PM

In current political discourse, absolutely. It’s code for focusing on the interests of the illegal aliens, not the interests of restrictionists.

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 4:01 PM

And you cracked the code? All by yourself?

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 4:21 PM

Well, many people succeed in less than promising environments. Jews at the turn of the century came to an America which was much less welcoming than the one which Hispanics come to today. And within twenty years they were so successful that Harvard and Yale had to put up quotas to prevent them form overrunning the schools.

It took Jews and other immigrant groups quite awhile to assimilate to the US. Prior to World War II, America was a working class country. Most people lived in tenements in the cities and didn’t own their own home. The iconic American Middle Class was created because the rest of the world was devastated by WWII. Most of the returning vets only were able to join the middle class because of the benefits provided in the GI Bill.

And the quota at the Ivies against Jews was put in place for bigoted reasons.

The fact is that Hispanics at all income levels underperform in school. If they were as hard working as you suppose them to be, that wouldn’t be the case.

Again you are assuming that someone’s ethnicity makes someone lazy. There are reasons why the testing data is lower for Latino kids, the most important of which is that Mexican immigrants with fifth grade educations aren’t going to be the same active advocates for their children as upper middle class white and Asian parents.

Illinidiva on April 1, 2014 at 4:21 PM

A terribly ironic reference to Colonel Kurtz.

vlad martel on April 1, 2014 at 4:20 PM

Would you mind explaining the irony? I just don’t see it.

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 4:23 PM

Mass non-white immigration plus forced integration means the elimination of the white base,

The HORROR!

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 4:17 PM

Would you feel the same way about the elimination of a minority racial group? Would you have the balls to say that?

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 4:23 PM

Illinidiva,

First, notice that I mentioned that they were an asset to America, not the Republican party.

If you take partisan politics seriously, then you have to believe that when immigrants strengthen the party you believe is not good for the future of America, then they are not assets to America.

Second, Republicans haven’t been really great at winning elections, especially Presidential elections recently. There needs to be greater outreach to minority voters and new groups to actually win a Presidential election.

And what if you’re outreach consists of measures which are bad for America? Then what good is winning elections if you are forced to make bad governing decisions?

George W. Bush had a minority housing program, for example. How did that help America? Watch the video and tell me.

How did that “outreach” help America, illinidiva? Take your time in explaining it to me.

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 4:24 PM

I want them all deported.

bluegill on April 1, 2014 at 4:24 PM

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 4:23 PM

If it was merely the product of free people making free choices I couldn’t give a rip.

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 4:25 PM

If anybody, ANYBODY is wondering why the GOP has trouble attracting voters who are other than WASPs they should just read this thread and know that many in the party express views that are rather like these.

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 3:37 PM

WASPs are Leftists, too. Just take a look at the Episcopal Church which is our national church. Leftist to the core.

Some would argue that the Leftist religion is just an offshoot of another religion:

http://theweek.com/article/index/258709/the-religious-roots-of-the-elite-liberal-agenda

Wasn’t it the Puritans in Massachusetts who set out to build a “shining city on the hill”? Very utopian, if you ask me.

Harvard never stopped training ministers.

Asian-Americans will continue to vote for the Left.

But again, why do Asian-Americans vote for the Left? Answer: It’s the incentive structure that the Left controls.

Advancements to the respectable and prestigious commanding heights requires assimilation and adherence the Left’s religion which they blast and promote.

Punchenko on April 1, 2014 at 3:27 PM

Trouble with that is they have to please someone and displease someone else. Either the Dems will alienate Hispanics and African-Americans or they will alienate Asian-Americans. Also the cultural differences between Asians and African-Americans/Hispanics is larger than their cultural differences with white America.

When you develope your entire political party’s strategy around class warfare and race this is what you get. It only works in places where the white population is seen as, “in power”. In California that is not really the case anymore, or should not be considering the population numbers. It then becomes a free for all….new alliances are formed and interests diverge.

William Eaton on April 1, 2014 at 3:47 PM

That’s awfully optimistic. Asian-Americans will simply be assimilated like most Jewish-Americans into the Puritanical Ruling Left’s religion.

Punchenko on April 1, 2014 at 4:25 PM

Alchemsit19,

And you cracked the code? All by yourself?

It’s not like they’re keeping it a secret.

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 4:25 PM

I’m sure they said the same thing in Europe just before the blitzkrieg. Whether reconquista will happen or not is not the issue, anyway. We should not be letting immigrants in with checkered or even remotely dubious loyalties. You can call me racist and nativist all day long, but at the end of the day, I don’t give a s*** what color someone’s skin is. Undermining your host country from within is a conscious choice, it is seditious, and we are under no obligation to allow it just because these poor people lived in shit holes before they came here.

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 4:04 PM

If it’s not going to happen then why are you warning me about it? It’s like if I had brushed off your warnings about the impending unicorn invasion. It’s not the nature of the evidence, it’s the seriousness of the charge, right?

I’m not going to call you a racist or a nativist or anything else for that matter. There are enough other people on here who call names (and some can’t do much else) but I try to be better than that.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 4:26 PM

Illinidiva on April 1, 2014 at 4:21 PM

THEY’RE ASSETS!
Well, yeah, they suck there, but it is not THEIR FAULT!
Well, yeah, they suck there too, but again, it is not THEIR FAULT!
I do not care how much they consume above and beyond what they produce THEY’RE ASSETS!
Nice, real nice.

astonerii on April 1, 2014 at 4:26 PM

notice that I mentioned that they were an asset to America
Illinidiva on April 1, 2014 at 4:12 PM

Prove it .

burrata on April 1, 2014 at 4:26 PM

“Drop the bomb — exterminate them all.”

– Colonel Kurtz

The idealism, and then the despair, of Kurtz drives him to genocidal impulses. Kind of like today’s liberals.

vlad martel on April 1, 2014 at 4:26 PM

Then you’re an unimaginative dunce. What’s to stop a steady demographic shift causing a Crimea type succession election that will be honored by the UN. While not joining Mexico it will create a Mexican proxy state that will probably be called El Norte.

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 4:04 PM

States have tried succession before and they got whipped good for it.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 4:28 PM

The HORROR!

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 4:17 PM

I agree. It would be horrible.

Lets drop the bullshit.
Name me one country, one that is ruled by the black man, the yellow man, the red man, the Mideastern man, that has built a society that respects the rights of its citizens and offers more protection to their lives, beliefs and individual dreams than the countries established and ruled under the Judeo-Christian ethic.
One. Name me one. Stick your “racist” baiting crap where you want to. It doesn’t work on me. One…name me one.

Mimzey on April 1, 2014 at 4:28 PM

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 4:14 PM

And all that is (for the most part) well and good. But it does not change the basic reality on the ground of incredible pressures pushing illegals north, nor the fact that we simply do not have the resources to stem the flow.

While some of the 12-30 million are the result of lax enforcement under the Liar-in-Chief, even when we were actually vigorously pursuing deportation, the numbers of illegals in the US grew. In fact, the only thing that appears to have stemmed the tide in my lifetime was the recession. Other than that, in more than 15 years living out west, I’ve never seen a serious dent put in the number of illegals.

A wall might help (although, once again, I detest the idea of a wall, and it has nothing to do with Mexico). But it seems to me that is just increasing the pressure on the other side of the border. Pressure that is, in time, going to seep over, under, through and around that wall. So long as the disparities exist along a 2000 mile border, people are going to make their way across that border.

Now, if you say to me, having millions of illegals here at any given time is okay, so long as we are making a constant, sustained, and genuine effort to get rid of them, that’s fine with me. It is, at the very least, acknowledging the realities on the ground. But it hardly solves the reconquista problem, does it…?

JohnGalt23 on April 1, 2014 at 4:29 PM

I want them all deported.

bluegill on April 1, 2014 at 4:24 PM

Whether you want it or not, it’s the law that they are to be deported. But you couldn’t tell that by the Chamber Of Commerce-contolled GOP elite, the Regime-controlled media or the Satan-controlled Democrat party.

whatcat on April 1, 2014 at 4:30 PM

The idealism, and then the despair, of Kurtz drives him to genocidal impulses. Kind of like today’s liberals.

vlad martel on April 1, 2014 at 4:26 PM

That’s the funny thing. We keep claiming we hate the thought of genocide but then we keep setting up these situations that make them likely. We do absolutely nothing to head off these possibilities. The current discussion of mass illegal immigration being the perfect example.

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 4:30 PM

The Left will continue converting the unbelievers, control the commanding heights, and set the agenda until conservatives properly challenge them for power, take hold of consensus-building institutions themselves, and become the new elite.

Talk of who makes a good conservative and who doesn’t is pointless so long as the elites in this country and elsewhere in the West are continually converted to the Ruling Left’s religion.

Punchenko on April 1, 2014 at 4:31 PM

If it’s not going to happen then why are you warning me about it? It’s like if I had brushed off your warnings about the impending unicorn invasion. It’s not the nature of the evidence, it’s the seriousness of the charge, right?

I’m not going to call you a racist or a nativist or anything else for that matter. There are enough other people on here who call names (and some can’t do much else) but I try to be better than that.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 4:26 PM

Because I trust what I see with my eyes and hear with my ears. I’m willing to cede that I could be wrong for the sake of argument, but when you have thousands of hispanics, God only knows how many of them illegal, assembled at Consejo Nacional de La Raza rallies cheering on speakers ranting about reconquista, I’m going to trust my lying eyes over the politicians who deny it’s happening.

If I’m right, we benefit from enforcing the law. If I’m wrong, we benefit from enforcing the law. How does enforcing the law harm America?

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 4:32 PM

Wasn’t it the Puritans in Massachusetts who set out to build a “shining city on the hill”? Very utopian, if you ask me. Punchenko on April 1, 2014 at 4:25 PM

No.
The Puritans were looking for more of a totalitarian community where different views were expelled. More like progressive lefties.

Mimzey on April 1, 2014 at 4:33 PM

Mimzey on April 1, 2014 at 4:28 PM

We’re down at number 12. You keep rockiing that racial superiority strut. It suits you.

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 4:33 PM

I don’t care about being called racist. It ends in a hot war, not tomorrow, or the day after, but at some time in the future. Anybody who doesn’t see that possibility has normalcy bias.

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 4:16 PM

Well, I’d like to thank you for putting it on the table so succinctly.

Now, I’d like you to consider the possibility of peaceful ways of making happen what I think we both agree needs to happen at some point…

JohnGalt23 on April 1, 2014 at 4:33 PM

There are reasons why the testing data is lower for Latino kids, the most important of which is that Mexican immigrants with fifth grade educations aren’t going to be the same active advocates for their children as upper middle class white and Asian parents.

Illinidiva on April 1, 2014 at 4:21 PM

Mexicans and illegals with 5th grade educacion in a 3rd world crappit living in the US have no reason to do anything for their kids other than keep them hooked on freebies, by hook or by crook.

burrata on April 1, 2014 at 4:34 PM

notice that I mentioned that they were an asset to America
Illinidiva on April 1, 2014 at 4:12 PM

Prove it .

burrata on April 1, 2014 at 4:26 PM

Because, cheap maids paid under the table. Americans won’t their own homes, doncha know.

whatcat on April 1, 2014 at 4:35 PM

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 4:30 PM

Do tell. What is this coming immigration-caused genocide of which you speak? I’m on the edge of my seat waiting to hear.

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 4:35 PM

Illinidiva,

It took Jews and other immigrant groups quite awhile to assimilate to the US. Prior to World War II, America was a working class country….

The U.S. already had the highest standard of living in the world prior to WW2, and it took Jews no time at all to assimilate to America. They just never assimilated politically.

And the quota at the Ivies against Jews was put in place for bigoted reasons.

The point is that Jews were able to be immediately improve their educational and income levels above those of native Americans despite knowing no English, living in impoverished circumstances, and facing strong prejudice.

Again you are assuming that someone’s ethnicity makes someone lazy.

You were willing to assume they were heard working. Why can’t I assume they aren’t?

But I don’t need to assume anything. The data show quite clearly that Hispanics can’t assimilate. I can leave it to others to infer why.

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 4:35 PM

Ha ! Very abstruse historical allusion. I wonder if anyone other than me even got it.

Yes, this is true, but then Democratic divisions don’t necessarily mean Republican gains. At best, it’s a long-term gambit that’s likely to change the governing philosophy of the GOP as much as it does that of the Democrats.

I kind of like having a small government party – even if that distinction is honored more in rhetoric than in the breach. I don’t want two big government parties, but that is where mass immigration will take us. Yes, the GOP will survive, but it will no longer resemble the kind of political party it is today.

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 4:18 PM

:) Glad you got it…know history and you can plan for the future.

In the 1930s whites in the American South loved FDR and his big socialist programs. How do you think we got Social Security?

Things change, and interests diverge.

William Eaton on April 1, 2014 at 4:36 PM

Look, it’s very simple. Hispanics have never voted for the Republican Party, and they never will. The reason is simple: They like big government. So any proposal which seeks to increase Hispanic voters ought to be a NO SALE for any small government Republican who has more concerns than just getting elected to office

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 3:10 PM

First, notice that I mentioned that they were an asset to America, not the Republican party. Second, Republicans haven’t been really great at winning elections, especially Presidential elections recently. There needs to be greater outreach to minority voters and new groups to actually win a Presidential election.

Illinidiva on April 1, 2014 at 4:12 PM

If President McCain had any greater outreach toward minority voters, they would have called him a perv and filed a restraining order. Keep doing what the democrats are doing and those minorities will choose the real democrat every time.

Cheese Wheel on April 1, 2014 at 4:36 PM

The data show quite clearly that Hispanics can’t assimilate. I can leave it to others to infer why.

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 4:35 PM

It just gets better and better.

/s

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 4:36 PM

And all that is (for the most part) well and good. But it does not change the basic reality on the ground of incredible pressures pushing illegals north, nor the fact that we simply do not have the resources to stem the flow.

We don’t have the resources to bring murder and theft to a grinding halt either, but we don’t look the other way. We enforce most laws precisely because it is the morally and ethically correct thing to do.

While some of the 12-30 million are the result of lax enforcement under the Liar-in-Chief, even when we were actually vigorously pursuing deportation, the numbers of illegals in the US grew. In fact, the only thing that appears to have stemmed the tide in my lifetime was the recession. Other than that, in more than 15 years living out west, I’ve never seen a serious dent put in the number of illegals.

You’ve never seen a serious dent put in the number of illegals because we haven’t been enforcing the law since at least 1986, the last time we had a mass amnesty. There were a few token raids and deportations under Bush, but I’m convinced it was for show.

A wall might help (although, once again, I detest the idea of a wall, and it has nothing to do with Mexico). But it seems to me that is just increasing the pressure on the other side of the border. Pressure that is, in time, going to seep over, under, through and around that wall. So long as the disparities exist along a 2000 mile border, people are going to make their way across that border.

A wall won’t help at all if it’s the only token we have of our desire to control our borders. In order to be a sovereign nation, we have to start acting like one. And the American people don’t have the stomach for it, which saddens me.

Now, if you say to me, having millions of illegals here at any given time is okay, so long as we are making a constant, sustained, and genuine effort to get rid of them, that’s fine with me. It is, at the very least, acknowledging the realities on the ground. But it hardly solves the reconquista problem, does it…?

JohnGalt23 on April 1, 2014 at 4:29 PM

I think a large part of the reconquista philosophy is that those hispanics who embrace it know that we’re not serious about enforcing immigration law. And they believe, right or wrong, that there is no indication that we ever will be in the foreseeable future. They move and they act precisely because they know we haven’t and we won’t.

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 4:37 PM

Yes, but you’re not identifying or understanding those European groups’ voting patterns evolved if you think it was just a response to changing GOP political attitudes towards them.

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 2:06 PM

Why would I think that?

They just got richer and more assimilated. As Poles, Irish and Italian started moving to the suburbs in the 60s, they started voting Republican. Younger generations would still vote overwhelmingly for the Democrats. Then they too got older and richer and followed the pattern.

This is why I said the GOP shouldn’t give up on citizenship.

Wrong.

They speak English, that’s it. They don’t aspire (or don’t have the ability) to achieve the educational and income patterns found in white Americans. And they continue to support big government.

That’s true even for Hispanics who have been in the U.S. for five generations.

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 2:12 PM

Why wouldn’t they aspire or have the ability to achieve the income patterns of richer people? Is it a racial thing? What about the whites in the Appalachian, do they lack the aspiration or ability to get richer and more educated as well?

And yes, changes of attitude matter. Do you think those ethnic whites would have voted for the Know-Nothing Party? Or any party with people claiming they “lack the ability to achieve the educational and income patterns” of the Anglos (even today, ethnic whites are still less educated and poorer than WASPs)?

joana on April 1, 2014 at 4:38 PM

Now, I’d like you to consider the possibility of peaceful ways of making happen what I think we both agree needs to happen at some point…

JohnGalt23 on April 1, 2014 at 4:33 PM

I don’t believe that possibility exists now. All this discussion is all academic now. The political power doesn’t exist to enforce the laws or deport. We are and will be a de facto open borders nation with a massive entitlement system. How well do you a libertarian think that will work out?

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 4:38 PM

We are capable of big things and we have a track record proving that we can do big things.

I prefer to have my major undertakings being practical things that are worth doing. YMMV.

Not important. They are coming into our country from mehico and there is no way the curroptocrats in the mexican government are not active participants in pushing people from all over the world into the USA, Afterall, most of them landed in mexico before they sneak into USA.

You know the private thoughts and intentions of the people in the Mexican government? How?

Would these people walk or drive towards the US if they knew that they’d be shot ?

I don’t believe that’s how we do things currently. Are you advocating we start shooting people who cross the border?

That’s why when you don’t let them in and feed them, you don’t have to find them later on. However , stop feeding them and their anchor babies, stop giving them the same previlages as a US citizen and stop letting them off everytime they commit crimes .
Ot doesn’t cost anything to enforce the current laws.

I’m not in favor of handouts and if they commit crimes beyond simply being here illegally then they ought to be dealt with swiftly and harshly but there’s a big gap between that and shipping out all of the 12-20 million people who don’t have a legal right to be here. As for anchor babies, that will require a Constitutional Amendment and depending on how that goes the cure there might be worse than the disease.

Use the National Guards.
And volunteers.

To secure the border or to round up the 12-20 million people who are here right now?

This battle can be won and if it ends up costing us a few million dollars , so what ? Think of what we’ll get in return for that investment –a clean and safe country.
It’s worth it .

burrata on April 1, 2014 at 4:17 PM

Conservatives for a bigger, more powerful, more active, more expensive federal government! I never thought I’d see the day.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 4:38 PM

The data show quite clearly that Hispanics can’t assimilate. I can leave it to others to infer why.

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 4:35 PM

You can skip the data, just make a phone call: “Press one…”.

whatcat on April 1, 2014 at 4:38 PM

Wasn’t it the Puritans in Massachusetts who set out to build a “shining city on the hill”? Very utopian, if you ask me. Punchenko on April 1, 2014 at 4:25 PM

No.
The Puritans were looking for more of a totalitarian community where different views were expelled. More like progressive lefties.

Mimzey on April 1, 2014 at 4:33 PM

The shining city on the hill was the Puritans’ stated intent. In practice, it ended up quite differently.

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 4:38 PM

We’re down at number 12. You keep rockiing that racial superiority strut. It suits you.

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 4:33 PM

I don’t buy “lists” and arbitrary ranking as meaning much. It like the list that has the US ranked below many countries for infant mortality, longevity etc. They are basically bullshit based on comparing apples to oranges.

What was their criteria?

Mimzey on April 1, 2014 at 4:39 PM

E-Verify for everyone. Stop the welfare and the ability to take jobs, they will go home. Getting back to x country, that’s their problem, not ours. Let Mexico deal with all the South Americans. You know they have a real keen southern border fence and strict immigration laws, that Mexico.

Cheese Wheel on April 1, 2014 at 3:58 PM

I’m aware Mexico does a better job securing their southern border than we do of securing ours. I consider it an embarrassment.

As for E-Verify, it’s great in principle but in practice… Do you know when SSN were first issued they swore up and down it wouldn’t ever be any type of national ID? E-Verify is several more steps down that path. An internet-accessible system that has every Americans vital personal information and a photograph (or whatever biometric data they decide to require in the future)? Nope, don’t see any way that could ever be misused.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 4:15 PM

The social security officer ready has your number, the DMV your picture and address, and the NSA knows what size of tightly whities you wear. And, I can see from here your tin foil hat might be a little too tight.

Cheese Wheel on April 1, 2014 at 4:40 PM

It just gets better and better.

/s

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 4:36 PM

It’s no wonder why we’re getting killed in the Latino vote, is it?

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 4:40 PM

It just gets better and better.

/s

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 4:36 PM

Too self involved to ever consider leaving, you’re just going to sit on the side lines and throw mud, just so we know you’re there.

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 4:41 PM

The social security officer ready has your number, the DMV your picture and address, and the NSA knows what size of tightly whities you wear. And, I can see from here your tin foil hat might be a little too tight.

Cheese Wheel on April 1, 2014 at 4:40 PM

The DMV is a state agency and the feds have my SSN but that’s it.

Is a National ID something you’re comfortable with?

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 4:41 PM

Mimzey on April 1, 2014 at 4:39 PM

Not even the heritage foundation can shake so much as allow you to question your bigoted sensibilities. How inspiring.

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 4:42 PM

Is a National ID something you’re comfortable with?

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 4:41 PM

That ship sailed. Your SSN has been a de facto national ID since before Nixon resigned.

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 4:42 PM

U.S. Immigration Law. Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter II, Part VIII

US Federal Immigration law was designed, drafted, and passed into law to protect United States citizens and legal immigrants for the predation of illegal aliens.

Not to protect those who come to this nation to prey on United States citizens and legal immigrants, taking what they choose from this nation and demanding the rights of citizens.

Enforce the law.

thatsafactjack on April 1, 2014 at 3:39 PM

The land is where she is, due to the breach of its laws and crookery, from both sides, for different reasons.

Excellent link and comment.

Schadenfreude on April 1, 2014 at 4:42 PM

Conservatives for a bigger, more powerful, more active, more expensive federal government! I never thought I’d see the day.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 4:38 PM

It’s been done with less than 1/10 the resources than we have now.

whatcat on April 1, 2014 at 4:44 PM

We’re down at number 12. You keep rockiing that racial superiority strut. It suits you.

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 4:33 PM

Nice spot. We could improve it, but since enforcing laws is racist…………..

nobar on April 1, 2014 at 4:46 PM

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 4:37 PM

We don’t have the resources to bring murder and theft to a grinding halt either, but we don’t look the other way. We enforce most laws precisely because it is the morally and ethically correct thing to do.

But immigration (save for re-entry after deportation) is not generally a criminal matter. There are lots of parts of the US code that get selectively or sporadically enforced. Any doubt about that? Go through the garment district in LA, and see the knockoffs abound. Somebody isn’t enforcing copyright law as much as we’d like either.

You’ve never seen a serious dent put in the number of illegals because we haven’t been enforcing the law since at least 1986, the last time we had a mass amnesty. There were a few token raids and deportations under Bush, but I’m convinced it was for show.

I lived in CA under both Bush and Clinton when there were deportation pushes. If it was for show, it was an impressive show. A million deportations a year at one point. And still, 3 million came.

A wall won’t help at all if it’s the only token we have of our desire to control our borders. In order to be a sovereign nation, we have to start acting like one. And the American people don’t have the stomach for it, which saddens me.

I agree that control of borders is a requisite task for any sovereign state.

The question then remains: What does a sovereign stat do when geographic, demographic and economic realities threaten its sovereignty…?

JohnGalt23 on April 1, 2014 at 4:47 PM

Conservatives for a bigger, more powerful, more active, more expensive federal government! I never thought I’d see the day.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 4:38 PM

It’s been done with less than 1/10 the resources than we have now.

whatcat on April 1, 2014 at 4:44 PM

That’s what I tried telling him. I didn’t even bother dignifying his request for source links.

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 4:47 PM

William Eaton,

In the 1930s whites in the American South loved FDR and his big socialist programs. How do you think we got Social Security?

Things change, and interests diverge.

Yes, eventually.

Assuming the worst is a good way to ensure you’ll get it. Fatalism is not an attractive proposition for any political program. If mass immigration changes the country in way you believe is unhealthy for it in the long run, then you should fight to prevent mass immigration. If not, then not.

I’ve read polls that say most people in Brazil are quite happy and patriotic – among the highest levels measured in the world. Such surveys suggest that all kinds of people can find a level they’re comfortable with, and I’m sure that whichever direction America goes – whether up or down – it will also adjust to its new level

That doesn’t mean I want the U.S. to be like Brazil.

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 4:48 PM

States have tried succession before and they got whipped good for it.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 4:28 PM

I missed this before. So, you basically agree with me that massive illegal immigration will lead to a hot war some day. See, wasn’t that easy.

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 4:48 PM

If it’s not going to happen then why are you warning me about it? It’s like if I had brushed off your warnings about the impending unicorn invasion. It’s not the nature of the evidence, it’s the seriousness of the charge, right?

I’m not going to call you a racist or a nativist or anything else for that matter. There are enough other people on here who call names (and some can’t do much else) but I try to be better than that.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 4:26 PM

Because I trust what I see with my eyes and hear with my ears. I’m willing to cede that I could be wrong for the sake of argument, but when you have thousands of hispanics, God only knows how many of them illegal, assembled at Consejo Nacional de La Raza rallies cheering on speakers ranting about reconquista, I’m going to trust my lying eyes over the politicians who deny it’s happening.

If I’m right, we benefit from enforcing the law. If I’m wrong, we benefit from enforcing the law. How does enforcing the law harm America?

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 4:32 PM

Don’t forget to watch the May Day marches coming in a month, where illegal aliens march alongside communists, socialists, and anarchists, usually waiving the Mexican flag-though they have learned this angers citizens, so they wave the American flag, usually allowing it to touch the ground. They will demand rights in the country they criminally entered. But, you know, they deserve to be here.

Cheese Wheel on April 1, 2014 at 4:48 PM

It just gets better and better.

/s

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 4:36 PM

Too self involved to ever consider leaving, you’re just going to sit on the side lines and throw mud, just so we know you’re there.

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 4:41 PM

Is it hotkeying “bigot” and “racist” or is it a script that posts it every 15 minutes?

BoxHead1 on April 1, 2014 at 4:49 PM

Alchemist19,

It’s no wonder why we’re getting killed in the Latino vote, is it?

Yeah, because we all know Democrats aren’t racist. Right?

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 4:50 PM

Conservatives for a bigger, more powerful, more active, more expensive federal government! I never thought I’d see the day.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 4:38 PM

Conservatives for a functioning constitution following federal government. One that remains within its enumerated powers and actually works to accomplish its responsibilities.
‘Conservatives’ for a bigger, more powerful, more active, more expensive federal government are the ones that want to keep allowing illegal aliens into the nation without barrier.

astonerii on April 1, 2014 at 4:50 PM

The U.S. already had the highest standard of living in the world prior to WW2, and it took Jews no time at all to assimilate to America. They just never assimilated politically.

Umm.. overall? Because that is factoring in lots of well-off Jews. Try it again with just ethnic Russians who fled to America from poor villages in the steppes.

The point is that Jews were able to be immediately improve their educational and income levels above those of native Americans despite knowing no English, living in impoverished circumstances, and facing strong prejudice.

It still took them awhile. A Russian Jew didn’t just walk off the boat and become wealthy overnight. There were lots of working class Jewish enclaves – for instance the Lower East Side and some of NYC’s boroughs.

You were willing to assume they were heard working. Why can’t I assume they aren’t?

But I don’t need to assume anything. The data show quite clearly that Hispanics can’t assimilate. I can leave it to others to infer why.

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 4:35 PM

It is incredibly prejudiced to take a whole group of people and assume because of their ethnicity they cannot succeed. Just like it was assumed by the WASP-y Anglos in the 19th century that those shift-y drunk Irish would never succeed in America.

Illinidiva on April 1, 2014 at 4:50 PM

I don’t believe that possibility exists now. All this discussion is all academic now. The political power doesn’t exist to enforce the laws or deport. We are and will be a de facto open borders nation with a massive entitlement system. How well do you a libertarian think that will work out?

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 4:38 PM

I don’t think it will work out well, at all.

Which is why I believe, at some point, we will need to extend American governance, American culture, and widespread use of English style law and the English language south of the border, perhaps as far down as Panama, where we can effectively control our border.

The only question is how we do it…

JohnGalt23 on April 1, 2014 at 4:51 PM

Because I trust what I see with my eyes and hear with my ears. I’m willing to cede that I could be wrong for the sake of argument, but when you have thousands of hispanics, God only knows how many of them illegal, assembled at Consejo Nacional de La Raza rallies cheering on speakers ranting about reconquista, I’m going to trust my lying eyes over the politicians who deny it’s happening.

If I’m right, we benefit from enforcing the law. If I’m wrong, we benefit from enforcing the law. How does enforcing the law harm America?

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 4:32 PM

I don’t deny that there are a couple yahoos out there who might cling to such a notion but it’s so far beyond the realm of realistic possibilities to be seriously considered. The US government isn’t going to just let those states go, and they have a pretty good track record at smacking down rebellious states. And if it really gets bad the feds still control the nukes.

As for what people at a rally chanted, I’ve heard leftist rally chants before and I’ve never been too panicked by them. The left is great about getting people to yell things at rallies; I think it’s related to the fact leftists don’t have jobs so they’ve got nothing else to do with their time. But it’s never been more than bluster in the past and there’s no reason to think that this time it’s finally serious.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 4:51 PM

I lived in CA under both Bush and Clinton when there were deportation pushes. If it was for show, it was an impressive show. A million deportations a year at one point. And still, 3 million came.

Be that as it may, it seems to me that Americans are too easily impressed by token gestures. We really screwed the pooch by electing the current occupant of the White House, and if we could go back to the way things were 10-15 years ago, I’m not sure it would be enough.

The question then remains: What does a sovereign stat do when geographic, demographic and economic realities threaten its sovereignty…?

JohnGalt23 on April 1, 2014 at 4:47 PM

I’d like to see the law enforced before we talk about its adequacy. Until then, I can say little about how just and realistic enforcement of those laws are. I just know that it seems terribly unjust to me to have my ancestors’ efforts and my own citizenship pissed on because some of my fellow citizens feel guilty about what crap holes some other countries are.

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 4:51 PM

Conservatives for a bigger, more powerful, more active, more expensive federal government! I never thought I’d see the day.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 4:38 PM

Article 4 Section 3:

The Congress shall have Power to dispose of and make all needful Rules and Regulations respecting the Territory or other Property belonging to the United States;

nobar on April 1, 2014 at 4:52 PM

The social security officer ready has your number, the DMV your picture and address, and the NSA knows what size of tightly whities you wear. And, I can see from here your tin foil hat might be a little too tight.

Cheese Wheel on April 1, 2014 at 4:40 PM

The DMV is a state agency and the feds have my SSN but that’s it.

Is a National ID something you’re comfortable with?

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 4:41 PM

E verify goes by SSN. If it comes back, you then have to produce original documentation, usually because an illegal alien is already using your SSN illegally. Don’t do the lefty thing and change the subject. All your info is still in the system, regardless State or Federal.

Cheese Wheel on April 1, 2014 at 4:52 PM

I lived in CA under both Bush and Clinton when there were deportation pushes. If it was for show, it was an impressive show. A million deportations a year at one point. And still, 3 million came.

JohnGalt23 on April 1, 2014 at 4:47 PM

We can always do the Libertarian thing, and end the welfare state and then open the borders. I’d be willing to try that as an alternative, however there is even less political will to end entitlements. We are locked in.

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 4:52 PM

Securing the border simply isn’t that expensive. And since, like national defense, it is one of the foundations of being a nation-state, i’m surprised to see Alchemist19 pretend that suddenly open borders is simply a matter of sound budgeting.

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 4:52 PM

As for what people at a rally chanted, I’ve heard leftist rally chants before and I’ve never been too panicked by them. The left is great about getting people to yell things at rallies; I think it’s related to the fact leftists don’t have jobs so they’ve got nothing else to do with their time. But it’s never been more than bluster in the past and there’s no reason to think that this time it’s finally serious.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 4:51 PM

Really. They rant about reconquista and every demographic trend in the south suggests that they are achieving their goals. And I’m being unrealistic in my concern? Really? None are so blind as those will not see.

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 4:53 PM

The only question is how we do it…

JohnGalt23 on April 1, 2014 at 4:51 PM

That is a bold suggestion, and you are right about the big question. How do we get Mexico to agree to be the 51 state, without warfare, I assume.

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 4:56 PM

Mexicans and illegals with 5th grade educacion in a 3rd world crappit living in the US have no reason to do anything for their kids other than keep them hooked on freebies, by hook or by crook.

burrata on April 1, 2014 at 4:34 PM

Of course they want the same things that upper middle class whites want for their kids. However, they might need help navigating the U.S. system. For instance, do you think that tiny rural villages in Mexico have local libraries or many local resources? Also, do you think that someone who was only provided with a very basic education and then left school to work the fields is going to be the same educational advocate for his or her child as a upper middle class Asian tiger mother with a professional degree? Or be able to help with geometry and chemistry homework?

Illinidiva on April 1, 2014 at 4:58 PM

Really. They rant about reconquista and every demographic trend in the south suggests that they are achieving their goals. And I’m being unrealistic in my concern? Really? None are so blind as those will not see.

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 4:53 PM

You know you’re stupid when you don’t believe people when they tell you exactly what they are going to do. We have the same problem with Islam. They tell us exactly how they feel and exactly what they are going to do, and yet we don’t believe them.

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 4:58 PM

That’s what I tried telling him. I didn’t even bother dignifying his request for source links.

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 4:47 PM

Yup – and once it started, about a half million self-deported when they realized the free ride was over. By the way, if you try to link to some articles on it, it won’t post if the link contains the actual name of the operation in the address – the HA word filter is a little too PC sometimes.

whatcat on April 1, 2014 at 4:58 PM

The Pope told the US pope that he’s against all deportations from the US. The Pope loves the diminishing of the US and for the US to pay for the world socialism.
The oaf, who’s chief, took that part to heart, not that he wasn’t a crook before.
Schadenfreude on April 1, 2014 at 1:41 PM

So then the Pope will be tearing down those walls around his absolute monarchy right??

Nutstuyu on April 1, 2014 at 4:59 PM

Of course they want the same things that upper middle class whites want for their kids. However, they might need help navigating the U.S. system. For instance, do you think that tiny rural villages in Mexico have local libraries or many local resources? Also, do you think that someone who was only provided with a very basic education and then left school to work the fields is going to be the same educational advocate for his or her child as a upper middle class Asian tiger mother with a professional degree? Or be able to help with geometry and chemistry homework?

Illinidiva on April 1, 2014 at 4:58 PM

You were going to prove to us how they are ASSETS to us. Still waiting on that.
Instead, all you do is excuse all their failures to be assets. That is not the same thing.
America is not here to make every poor person in the world better off. More power to us if we can help them do so in their own countries, but importing socialists who consume far more than they produce is not asset building.

astonerii on April 1, 2014 at 5:00 PM

Really. They rant about reconquista and every demographic trend in the south suggests that they are achieving their goals. And I’m being unrealistic in my concern? Really? None are so blind as those will not see.
gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 4:53 PM

You know you’re stupid when you don’t believe people when they tell you exactly what they are going to do. We have the same problem with Islam. They tell us exactly how they feel and exactly what they are going to do, and yet we don’t believe them.
DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 4:58 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?&v=QkDE8mWJWOA#t=20s

whatcat on April 1, 2014 at 5:01 PM

Illinidiva on April 1, 2014 at 4:58 PM

Not to mention the fact that the people in those rural villages do not survive by sitting on the butts waiting for handouts. They have strong work ethics because they could not live without it. They do not come here to suck on government teat. They come here to work hard and make a better life for themselves and their children.

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 5:01 PM

It is incredibly prejudiced to take a whole group of people and assume because of their ethnicity they cannot succeed. Just like it was assumed by the WASP-y Anglos in the 19th century that those shift-y drunk Irish would never succeed in America.

Illinidiva on April 1, 2014 at 4:50 PM

Actually, the Irish weren’t particularly well-behaved, either. Look up the New York draft riots sometime. Your demonization of the “WASP-y Anglos” in the name of racial egalitarianism is noted, though.

vlad martel on April 1, 2014 at 5:02 PM

I missed this before. So, you basically agree with me that massive illegal immigration will lead to a hot war some day. See, wasn’t that easy.

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 4:48 PM

I’ve been relentless mocking the possibility of anything leading to a hot war in this country. But if you get so ticked off at illegals that you want to grab your deer rifle and start shooting a people over it, hey, I certainly won’t cheer your action but I can’t say I’ll be disappointed over how the whole situation ends.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 5:03 PM

Mexicans and illegals with 5th grade educacion in a 3rd world crappit living in the US have no reason to do anything for their kids other than keep them hooked on freebies, by hook or by crook.

burrata on April 1, 2014 at 4:34 PM

Of course they want the same things that upper middle class whites want for their kids. However, they might need help navigating the U.S. system. For instance, do you think that tiny rural villages in Mexico have local libraries or many local resources? Also, do you think that someone who was only provided with a very basic education and then left school to work the fields is going to be the same educational advocate for his or her child as a upper middle class Asian tiger mother with a professional degree? Or be able to help with geometry and chemistry homework?

Illinidiva on April 1, 2014 at 4:58 PM

Again, I asked this up thread, but why is this OUR responsibility to navigate people with little or no education through our system? The democrats already do this by offering food stamps and welfare at the consulates and when the get to la raza. These are temporary programs for American citizens. Why can we not demand the best and brightest instead of the uneducated and needy? We already have enough welfare cases, I don’t think we need to navigate any more of other country’s problems through our crumbling entitlement system.

Cheese Wheel on April 1, 2014 at 5:04 PM

You know you’re stupid when you don’t believe people when they tell you exactly what they are going to do. We have the same problem with Islam. They tell us exactly how they feel and exactly what they are going to do, and yet we don’t believe them.

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 4:58 PM

There’s a small but loud and activist group of Native Hawaiians who want their state to secede and become an independent nation. They’re very open and honest about that goal, even going so far as to describe their plans for the economic system in the new Kingdom of Hawaii. Is it time to panic?

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 5:05 PM

Illinidiva,

Umm.. overall? Because that is factoring in lots of well-off Jews. Try it again with just ethnic Russians who fled to America from poor villages in the steppes.

The Russian and Polish Jews who came to America in the early twentieth century were not well off. They were impoverished.

It still took them awhile. A Russian Jew didn’t just walk off the boat and become wealthy overnight. There were lots of working class Jewish enclaves – for instance the Lower East Side and some of NYC’s boroughs.

Within a single generation, the children of those Jewish immigrants were forcing the finest colleges in America to close their doors with quotas. Up to five generations of much larger numbers of Mexican-Americans aren’t able to come close to doing the same trick.

It is incredibly prejudiced to take a whole group of people and assume because of their ethnicity they cannot succeed. Just like it was assumed by the WASP-y Anglos in the 19th century that those shift-y drunk Irish would never succeed in America.

What does it matter what anyone assumes? Do you think it mattered to the Jews in the early twentieth century? Or to East Asians today? Did it matter to Jesse Owens what Hitler assumed?

People succeed if they have the habits and ability to succeed. If they don’t, then they don’t. It’s that simple. Our assumptions don’t matter to it a whit.

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 5:05 PM

I certainly won’t cheer your action but I can’t say I’ll be disappointed over how the whole situation ends.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 5:03 PM

I’m not shooting anybody, but sounds like you’d like to.

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 5:06 PM

The dumb Brutus writes,

Not to mention the fact that the people in those rural villages do not survive by sitting on the butts waiting for handouts. They have strong work ethics because they could not live without it. They do not come here to suck on government teat. They come here to work hard and make a better life for themselves and their children.

So then explain why it is that Hispanics have both higher unemployment rates and higher welfare rates than those lazy native whites?

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 5:07 PM

There’s a small but loud and activist group of Native Hawaiians who want their state to secede and become an independent nation. They’re very open and honest about that goal, even going so far as to describe their plans for the economic system in the new Kingdom of Hawaii. Is it time to panic?

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 5:05 PM

What’s the numbers? Are their demographics exploding? You really suck at this.

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 5:07 PM

I want them all deported.

bluegill on April 1, 2014 at 4:24 PM

Well it doesn’t look like Ted Cruz is gonna do that for ya. Vote 3rd Party or stay home! Right?

cdog0613 on April 1, 2014 at 5:08 PM

Illinidiva on April 1, 2014 at 4:58 PM

Not to mention the fact that the people in those rural villages do not survive by sitting on the butts waiting for handouts. They have strong work ethics because they could not live without it. They do not come here to suck on government teat. They come here to work hard and make a better life for themselves and their children.

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 5:01 PM

You keep saying that and I’ll keep posting this and proving you wrong, KosBoy.

LOS ANGELES (CBSLA.com) — A projected $650 million in welfare benefits will be distributed to illegal alien parents in 2013, county officials said Monday.
Supervisor Michael D. Antonovich announced the latest figures from the Department of Public Social Services, which showed more than $376 million in CalWORKs benefits and food stamps combined have been distributed through July to illegal alien parents for their native-born children.
Approximately $54 million in welfare payments are issued each month, consisting of nearly $20 million in CalWORKs and $34 million in food stamp issuances, according to the data.
An estimated 100,000 children of 60,000 undocumented parents receive aid in Los Angeles County, according to Antonovich, who said this year’s projections — up about $1 million from the nearly $53 million in total benefits issued in July 2012 — underscore the economic impact of the nation’s immigration debate.
“When you add the $550 million for public safety and nearly $500 million for healthcare, the total cost for illegal immigrants to county taxpayers exceeds $1.6 billion dollars a year,” Antonovich said in a statement. “These costs do not even include the hundreds of millions of dollars spent annually for education.”

Cheese Wheel on April 1, 2014 at 5:09 PM

For instance, do you think that tiny rural villages in Mexico have local libraries or many local resources?

I don’t know…why don’t they build some? At a certain point there were no libraries in the US…how did they get here? Evil WASP magic, I guess…

vlad martel on April 1, 2014 at 5:09 PM

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 5:05 PM

As a proponent of national divorce, this doesn’t concern me.

nobar on April 1, 2014 at 5:10 PM

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