Rand Paul on immigration: Republicans have got to get beyond deportation

posted at 1:21 pm on April 1, 2014 by Allahpundit

Before anyone excommunicates him from the GOP on grounds of RINOism, ask yourself: Will there be a single Republican candidate onstage next year at the debates who challenges him on this point? Don’t say Cruz. Cruz opposes a path to citizenship but he’s in line with Paul, Rubio, etc, on legalization and work permits, which are the truly important provisions. Once legalization is granted, citizenship will inevitably follow. (That’s why it’s crucial to secure the border first, to make sure that this amnesty is the last amnesty.) If Paul’s candidacy is DOA for taking this line, I’m not sure whose candidacy is still alive.

Besides, America is already largely “beyond deportation.”

During a symposium at the Newseum on conservative engagement with Hispanic media outlets, Paul also said Republicans have plenty of ideas that appeal to Latinos, but acknowledged, “We got to get beyond deportation to get to the rest of the issues.”

“The bottom line is that the Hispanic community, the Latino community, is not going to hear us until we get beyond that issue. They’re not going to care whether we go to the same church or have the same values or believe in the same kind of future of the country until we get beyond that. So showing up helps. But you got to show up and you got to say something and it’s has to be different than what we’ve been saying.”…

“I think one way to get the door ajar is say that you know, Mrs. Garcia’s nephew is not going to be sent home to Mexico,” he said. “You know, because everybody — even those who are here illegally — know somebody who is here who doesn’t have the proper visa.”…

Paul, who voted against last year’s Senate comprehensive immigration bill, expressed frustration that the bill still keeps it illegal for immigrants with certain visas to change jobs while in the United States. He gave an example of a migrant worker who came here with a legal visa to pick crops for $9 dollars an hour but later saw a construction job that paid $14 dollars an hour.

The most interesting part of that to me isn’t the deportation bit. After the beating Romney took for advocating attrition through enforcement, a.k.a. “self-deportation,” in 2012, no Republican with national ambitions is going to defend the D-word. The interesting part is that Rand is still kinda sorta pushing the “Latinos are conservatives but just don’t know it yet” line which, I thought, most people who follow politics now accepted was self-serving nonsense endorsed by GOP amnesty fans. More than one poll, including the national exit poll in 2012, show Latinos favoring gay marriage. Abortion is more complicated, but the same 2012 exit poll found that 66 percent of Latinos thought abortion should be legal compared to 59 percent of the overall population. Maybe that’s an artifact of higher turnout among Latino Democrats for Obama’s reelection bid or maybe it’s a more durable trend. As for Paul’s point about sharing a vision for the future of the country, here’s the reality from Pew circa April 2012:

pew

A Gallup poll taken two months later, in June 2012, showed a similar result. When asked whether government is doing too much or not enough, American registered voters overall split 57/37. Latino registered voters split 35/56. And so we return to the big question: Are these preferences more a product of firm ideological inclination or are they more a product of alienation from the GOP over immigration policy? Republicans don’t need to win a majority of Latinos to make Democrats’ lives difficult electorally — even a 40/60 split would be tough for the left — but the “ask” here in terms of legalizing 10+ million people is high given the uncertainty. Look back at the Pew poll and you’ll find a further complication: It’s younger Latinos and recent immigrants who are the furthest left politically. Is that because they’re alienated from the GOP in a way that older generations, which watched Reagan sign the 1986 amnesty, aren’t? Or is it because broader political trends, like the leftward drift and lesser role of religion among younger voters generally, have delivered them there? The problem is more or less fixable depending upon how you answer. Republican candidates, Paul included, have to take the “it’s our fault” line because they can’t afford to formally write off an entire demographic. The trick is convincing Republican base voters that it’s true.


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Bmore on April 1, 2014 at 3:22 PM

Besides, America is already largely “beyond deportation.”

That means America is an occupied country that cannot enforce it’s laws because of loyalties to foreign powers. Do you think this ends well?

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 3:27 PM

One strategy to deal with immigration, although a risky one, would be to play up legal immigration from Asia, mostly from China, as a counter to amnesty to illegals who are mostly Hispanics.

Although Asians did support Obama in the last election, their own self-interests will be in the long term better suited for the GOP. Why? Money and education. Right now Asians on average earn more than whites in America. Leftist policies hurt people trying to move up the social ladder, those that want to set up a business, and those that succeed.

See the fight occurring right now over affirmative action in California. Asians don’t want affirmative action because they are overrepresented in colleges / universities in California and will be hurt for simply being successful in raising their children. However Hispanics and African-Americans are continuing to push for it, despite the Democrat party temporarily dropping it.

This fight over affirmative action is just the beginning. Asians are also overrepresented in the Tech industry, where crazy leftist in San Francisco are now targeting with threats and even violence in some cases.

Selfishness has been used by Dems to target poorer minorities and minorities who are susceptible to that message. Conservatives, over time, should have the same advantage with Asian-Americans. So by supporting more immigration from Asia, mostly Chinese, we could change the dynamic in California by setting the stage for political upheaval in the Democrat Party. The Chinese do not come to this country to live in crime ridden drug infested places like Mexico or Chicago.

The simple fact is the Democrat Party in places like California cannot continue to exist as it is. It is too big and has too many competing interests to survive. The more Asians that arrive, the more they will dilute the power of Hispanics.

William Eaton on April 1, 2014 at 3:14 PM

Asian-Americans will continue to vote for the Left.

But again, why do Asian-Americans vote for the Left? Answer: It’s the incentive structure that the Left controls.

Advancements to the respectable and prestigious commanding heights requires assimilation and adherence the Left’s religion which they blast and promote.

Punchenko on April 1, 2014 at 3:27 PM

Punchenko,

Even highly educated Americans vote for the Left. Hell, even Wall Street kicks money over to the Democrats and signs on to their social and economic agenda.

True. But the broad generalization is still accurate that the better-educated and more successful tend to vote Republican. The higher your family income, the more likely it is that you’ll vote Republican. The more education you have up to a college degree, the more likely it is that you’ll vote Republican.

For example, people earning more than $100,000 a year voted for Romney 54-44 in the last presidential election. Those earning less than $100,000 a year voted for Obama 54 to 44. College graduates voted for Romney 51-47. High school graduates voted for Obama 51 to 48. Obama won those with “some college” 49-48.

The relationship breaks down if you start looking at sub-categories like people who earn postgraduate degrees or the super wealthy.

Wall Street, for example, has a lot of Jewish money, and Jews and Asians are two major exceptions to the overall trend of the more successful generally supporting Republicans.

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 3:27 PM

The problem is that there isn’t any way to compromise on this. Any attempt to legalize without a path to citizenship just invites another decade or so of Democrats drumming up even more hatred for the “bad ole Republicans” by accusing them of supporting the creation and maintenance of racist “second class” citizenship for Latinos. Eventually, SCOTUS will deem it “unconstitutional” and “discriminatory” to deny legal residents the “right” to become citizens, and they’ll all become citizens/Democratic voters anyways (no thanks to the bad old Republicans).

Immigration policy is not the route to Republican electoral gains with Latinos. It’s not even close to the most important issue for most Latino voters. Republicans have to stop looking for the easy way out — that by signing a piece of paper, “Voila!” their electoral problems with Latinos will be somehow magically solved. They need to do the hard work of demonstrating by words and deeds that Latinos’ lives will be better under Republican rule by delivering on jobs, the economy, small businesses, education, values, etc., starting at the local level and working up from there.

Progressive Heretic on April 1, 2014 at 3:28 PM

idalily on April 1, 2014 at 3:17 PM

Implement mandatory E-verify nationwide for all employers with prison sentences and punitive fines for violation.

End automatic citizenship for the children of foreign nationals unless one parent is a citizen or legal permanent resident.

End welfare benefits for illegal aliens, including SNAP ( food stamps) and medical care. End state assistance to illegal aliens for educational purposes.

Enforces federal law and deny any federal funding to any state or city that claims ‘sanctuary’ status or refuses to vigorously comply with and enforce federal immigration law.

Share information regarding citizenship and legal status between federal agencies, including records from educational facilities including elementary schools.

Institute mandatory biometric national ID with for all citizens and legal immigrants.

Track visas and their holders, and see that every person who has been issued a visa leaves the nation promptly when the visa has expired.

End foreign aid to any nation that willfully assists its citizenry to enter the United States illegally or fails to do its share to end illegal immigration into the United States, including cooperating with authorities to police the borders.

thatsafactjack on April 1, 2014 at 3:30 PM

Full disclosure: I know someone whos Visa is expiring, I dont want her deported.

Dash

She doesn’t have to be. She can renew it if possible, or leave voluntarily when the Visa is up…you know, like she agreed to do when she accepted the Visa.

xblade on April 1, 2014 at 3:30 PM

Adjoran on April 1, 2014 at 3:18 PM

One very simple thing the US Congress could do is to relieve the States of any responsibility to provide welfare services (including education, but not police/emergency services) to illegals. That right there would discourage much of the illegal immigration in the first place…

JohnGalt23 on April 1, 2014 at 3:31 PM

William Eaton,

One strategy to deal with immigration, although a risky one, would be to play up legal immigration from Asia, mostly from China, as a counter to amnesty to illegals who are mostly Hispanics.

Although Asians did support Obama in the last election, their own self-interests will be in the long term better suited for the GOP. Why? Money and education. Right now Asians on average earn more than whites in America. Leftist policies hurt people trying to move up the social ladder, those that want to set up a business, and those that succeed.

The experience of Jews shows this is not necessarily true. Jewish-Americans have yet to ever give a GOP presidential candidate a majority of their vote in over a hundred years, and they have far higher levels of income and education than gentile American whites.

If the GOP can’t win Jews in over a century of trying, what makes you think Asians are bound to turn their way anytime soon?

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 3:31 PM

Adjoran on April 1, 2014 at 3:18 PM

The real issue is that we first have to stop the bleeding, then we can discuss the illegals. Border security aside, actually enforcing the laws that currently exist would go a very long way in dealing with illegals. If companies were actually prosecuted for hiring illegals, illegals would deport themselves.

I want all the best and brightest in the world to relocate to the United States, but I want it done legally and with secure borders. This nonsense by Paul is insulting, and he can take a long walk off a short pier.

NotCoach on April 1, 2014 at 3:32 PM

One very simple thing the US Congress could do is to relieve the States of any responsibility to provide welfare services (including education, but not police/emergency services) to illegals. That right there would discourage much of the illegal immigration in the first place…

JohnGalt23 on April 1, 2014 at 3:31 PM

Could. Would? Not likely. That’s a prerogative the states would have to take for themselves, and America doesn’t have the stomach for nullification.

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 3:32 PM

Republican candidates, Paul included, have to take the “it’s our fault” line because they can’t afford to formally write off an entire demographic. The trick is convincing Republican base voters that it’s true.

Must lie! Must lie!

astonerii on April 1, 2014 at 3:33 PM

Advancements to the respectable and prestigious commanding heights requires assimilation and adherence the Left’s religion which they blast and promote.

Punchenko on April 1, 2014 at 3:27 PM

Yes the left controls the culture, and recently they’ve gained control of the federal bureaucracy. When we hear about the IRS scandal why does no one ask how the IRS and EPA and all other federal agencies get staffed with Democrats?

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 3:33 PM

This nonsense by Paul is insulting, and he can take a long walk off a short pier.

NotCoach on April 1, 2014 at 3:32 PM

Cue the Paulbots to tell us why we shouldn’t be insulted in

3…

2…

1…

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 3:33 PM

It’s not that difficult, actually.

1 – When you catch them, deport them. No exceptions. They may take their family with them, or leave them here to be deported when *they* are caught, or leave on their own as a result of the following…

2 – Hold people who employ illegals criminally liable. Fine them into oblivion, and imprison them awhile for good measure. Owners, managers, HR directors, etc. Anyone tied to hiring and employing an illegal.

3 – Hold people who provide services like housing (landlords, etc) similarly liable – fines and jail time.

4 – End free education, food stamps and other welfare, unemployment benefits, etc, for illegals.

5 – End free emergency room visits for illegals.

6 – End or in other ways make painful and expensive: bank/transfer payments, mail service, package delivery, etc to Mexico.

7 – End any and all ‘second language’ crap in education, government, form printing, etc.

End every reason they have for coming/staying here to begin with. Make it painful to get here, painful to stay here, and extremely uncomfortable if/when they are caught here illegally.

Shun and banish illegal aliens, and welcome those that come here legally with open arms as the law-abiding future citizens they intend to be.

Midas on April 1, 2014 at 3:34 PM

JohnGalt23,

One very simple thing the US Congress could do is to relieve the States of any responsibility to provide welfare services (including education, but not police/emergency services) to illegals. That right there would discourage much of the illegal immigration in the first place…

Don’t fool yourself. We have a better chance of mass deportation, as slim as that possibility is.

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 3:34 PM

That means America is an occupied country that cannot enforce it’s laws because of loyalties to foreign powers. Do you think this ends well?

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 3:27 PM

You’re being a bit hyperbolic here, don’t you think? An “occupied country” means something. We just refused to secure our borders for so long that we’ve arrived at a point where mass deportation is impractical. That’s a lesson on the importance of border security, but we’re certainly not an occupied country.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 3:34 PM

xblade on April 1, 2014 at 3:15 PM

I lost count of how many straw men and assumptions you made in that tirade, however I would like to know what you would suggest we do with the illegal immigrants here? Mass deportation? Jail for breaking the law?

As long as we are the party who is dealing with the past (the 12M who are here) and not the future (what to do with them), we will continue to lose elections. Voters don’t want lectures, they want solutions.

Tater Salad on April 1, 2014 at 3:34 PM

Could. Would? Not likely. That’s a prerogative the states would have to take for themselves, and America doesn’t have the stomach for nullification.

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 3:32 PM

Article V isn’t gonna happen, and I’m not sure that you’d like what you see if it did.

These things have to be done through Congress…

JohnGalt23 on April 1, 2014 at 3:36 PM

You’re being a bit hyperbolic here, don’t you think? An “occupied country” means something. We just refused to secure our borders for so long that we’ve arrived at a point where mass deportation is impractical. That’s a lesson on the importance of border security, but we’re certainly not an occupied country.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 3:34 PM

Deport as many as we can, and fear will get most of the rest to leave on their own. I’m okay with that. It does not follow from “we can’t deport them all” that “we shouldn’t enforce our laws at all.”

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 3:37 PM

If anybody, ANYBODY is wondering why the GOP has trouble attracting voters who are other than WASPs they should just read this thread and know that many in the party express views that are rather like these.

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 3:37 PM

Could. Would? Not likely. That’s a prerogative the states would have to take for themselves, and America doesn’t have the stomach for nullification.

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 3:32 PM

Article V isn’t gonna happen, and I’m not sure that you’d like what you see if it did.

These things have to be done through Congress…

JohnGalt23 on April 1, 2014 at 3:36 PM

I’m not talking about Article V. Though I’m not necessarily opposed to it, my preferred outcome is nullification; the states should just tell FedGov to get bent. We can’t depend on a congress of politicians to fix what politicians broke.

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 3:38 PM

You’re being a bit hyperbolic here, don’t you think? An “occupied country” means something.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 3:34 PM

Yes it means that an alien group of people live in your country and have the power to force you to change your culture and way of life. You know things like forcing you to adopt their language.

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 3:39 PM

If anybody, ANYBODY is wondering why the GOP has trouble attracting voters who are other than WASPs they should just read this thread and know that many in the party express views that are rather like these.

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 3:37 PM

I’ll have these n!ggers voting Democrat for the next 200 years.

–Lyndon Baines Johnson, 1963

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 3:39 PM

U.S. Immigration Law. Title 8, Chapter 12, Subchapter II, Part VIII

US Federal Immigration law was designed, drafted, and passed into law to protect United States citizens and legal immigrants for the predation of illegal aliens.

Not to protect those who come to this nation to prey on United States citizens and legal immigrants, taking what they choose from this nation and demanding the rights of citizens.

Enforce the law.

thatsafactjack on April 1, 2014 at 3:39 PM

for..from

thatsafactjack on April 1, 2014 at 3:40 PM

Alchemist19,

That’s a lesson on the importance of border security, but we’re certainly not an occupied country.

If that’s the lesson on border security, then why isn’t anyone making that argument?

Instead, we’re still back in 1986, where the pols are telling us they’ll secure the border once they get a comprehensive immigration bill (i.e., amnesty).

Most restrictionists understand that no one in the establishment is serious about border control because they don’t understand the implications of mass immigration.

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 3:40 PM

Enforce the law.

thatsafactjack on April 1, 2014 at 3:39 PM

Particularly as regards immigration law, this. You lose me when you talk about changing a law we aren’t enforcing.

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 3:40 PM

WASPs

Formerly known as “Americans.”

vlad martel on April 1, 2014 at 3:41 PM

Secure the Borders! Enforce the Law

workingclass artist on April 1, 2014 at 3:14 PM

Exactly. You guys can argue points of law all day. This is the only thing that’s important.

crankyoldlady on April 1, 2014 at 3:41 PM

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 2:32 PM

Immigrant groups like Poles and Irish should probably achieve parity more quickly because they look more like the dominant group and so can blend into it more seamlessly. Do you disagree with the conclusions of the source you cited and if so, why?

No, they don’t. Look at the poll more closely. They still fall well short of the general population after three generations, and the general population (which includes blacks) falls well short of white attitudes towards big government.

So what do you want us to do? Legalize them and then wait for their great grandchildren to be a little more skeptical of big government than their ancestors were?

Great plan, man.

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 2:32 PM

My position is a bit more nuanced than that but I would start by not acting like we don’t want them here or that they’re too stupid to function in the American mainstream.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 3:41 PM

Most restrictionists understand that no one in the establishment is serious about border control because they don’t understand the implications of mass immigration.

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 3:40 PM

I’m not that charitable. They understand. They just don’t care. If you can see as many historical examples as we have at our disposal and still don’t “get it,” you’ve crossed the line into obstinacy.

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 3:42 PM

Link

terryannonline on April 1, 2014 at 3:42 PM

If anybody, ANYBODY is wondering why the GOP has trouble attracting voters who are other than WASPs they should just read this thread and know that many in the party express views that are rather like these.

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 3:37 PM

And if anybody is wondering why the country is in a flaming handbasket plummeting straight to hell, and why the people in charge seem only able to come up with new ways to throw gasoline on the flames, they can read the comments from you and yours.

Midas on April 1, 2014 at 3:42 PM

WASPs

Formerly known as “Americans.”

vlad martel on April 1, 2014 at 3:41 PM

Seriously? Are we now that party? Somebody needs to inform Tim Scott or Susana Martinez.

Tater Salad on April 1, 2014 at 3:43 PM

Tater Salad,

As long as we are the party who is dealing with the past (the 12M who are here) and not the future (what to do with them), we will continue to lose elections. Voters don’t want lectures, they want solutions.

You’re the one making assumptions. You have no evidence that any group out there really believes this is a compelling issue that will change votes. None. So stop pretending like you do.

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 3:43 PM

Formerly known as “Americans.”

vlad martel on April 1, 2014 at 3:41 PM

Exactly, and that’s another truth no one wants to admit. You ever think that minorities won’t vote GOP because it has come to represent white people in the mind of minorities and they simply resent white people.

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 3:43 PM

no Republican with national ambitions is going to defend the D-word.

i.e. no RINO will enforce a law that works every time it’s been tried.

whatcat on April 1, 2014 at 3:43 PM

My position is a bit more nuanced than that but I would start by not acting like we don’t want them here or that they’re too stupid to function in the American mainstream.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 3:41 PM

Is enforcing the law as it is now written “acting like we don’t want them here?”

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 3:43 PM

If anybody, ANYBODY is wondering why the GOP has trouble attracting voters who are other than WASPs they should just read this thread and know that many in the party express views that are rather like these.

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 3:37 PM

I’ll have these n!ggers voting Democrat for the next 200 years.

–Lyndon Baines Johnson, 1963

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 3:39 PM

I understand MJ Brutus was a brown shirt leader over at DailyKos. He’s tried to clean up the mess, but some enlightened pitch forkers here found the dirty details. It explains his posts here.

Cheese Wheel on April 1, 2014 at 3:44 PM

Midas on April 1, 2014 at 3:42 PM

Careful what you say, some may same about you.

Tater Salad on April 1, 2014 at 3:44 PM

Great post, Allah. It’s time for people to accept the fact that there will not be a single “NO AMNESTY!!!!!” GOP POTUS candidate come 2016.

And if this is a single issue/litmus test for you, then it’s time to vote 3rd party (for who I have NO idea) or stay home I guess and watch the country go even FURTHER in flames.

cdog0613 on April 1, 2014 at 3:45 PM

The traitorous Brutus writes,

If anybody, ANYBODY is wondering why the GOP has trouble attracting voters who are other than WASPs they should just read this thread and know that many in the party express views that are rather like these.

The GOP attracts white Catholics just fine – and they were once a Democratic group.

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 3:45 PM

Yep, they’re just like all the others who immigrated to this country. I guess that’s why I have to press 1 for Russian, 2 for Swahili, 3 for Italian, and 4 for German, but not 1 for Spanish, lol. Yep, it’s a well known fact you have virtually no shot of getting a job in south Florida if you can’t speak French.

xblade on April 1, 2014 at 3:01 PM

There hasn’t been a continuous wave or Russian or Southeastern African or Italian or German migration. There is a continuous wave of Latino migration because we stubbornly refuse to secure the border. The reason you’re given the option of pressing “2″ for Spanish is because we keep getting more and more people here who grew up in Mexico or farther south.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 3:46 PM

My position is a bit more nuanced than that but I would start by not acting like we don’t want them here or that they’re too stupid to function in the American mainstream.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 3:41 PM

Illegals?

Um, we *don’t* want them here.

Happy to have immigrants come here legally.

Midas on April 1, 2014 at 3:46 PM

Asian-Americans will continue to vote for the Left.

But again, why do Asian-Americans vote for the Left? Answer: It’s the incentive structure that the Left controls.

Advancements to the respectable and prestigious commanding heights requires assimilation and adherence the Left’s religion which they blast and promote.

Punchenko on April 1, 2014 at 3:27 PM

Trouble with that is they have to please someone and displease someone else. Either the Dems will alienate Hispanics and African-Americans or they will alienate Asian-Americans. Also the cultural differences between Asians and African-Americans/Hispanics is larger than their cultural differences with white America.

When you develope your entire political party’s strategy around class warfare and race this is what you get. It only works in places where the white population is seen as, “in power”. In California that is not really the case anymore, or should not be considering the population numbers. It then becomes a free for all….new alliances are formed and interests diverge.

The experience of Jews shows this is not necessarily true. Jewish-Americans have yet to ever give a GOP presidential candidate a majority of their vote in over a hundred years, and they have far higher levels of income and education than gentile American whites.

If the GOP can’t win Jews in over a century of trying, what makes you think Asians are bound to turn their way anytime soon?

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 3:31 PM

I figured this argument would be used and no doubt there is that possibility. I said it was a risky strategy. However, Jews are a special case. They were always politically active and were at the hart of the progressive and leftist movements from day one. They have the power, economic and political. Asians are not, they are newcomers, and based on history new money always clashes with the old when the newcomers are not given the political power they feel they deserve.

See the American Revolution. In the 1760s most Americans were loyal to the British Empire and the King. What angered John Adams the most was that the British elite would not allow him into the club, despite his education and money. Same with Franklin, Washington, etc. Asian Americans have arrived economically, now will the Democrat party give them the reigns of power? I doubt it…

William Eaton on April 1, 2014 at 3:47 PM

The reason you’re given the option of pressing “2″ for Spanish is because we keep getting more and more people here who grew up in Mexico or farther south.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 3:46 PM

Kind of like an occupation??????

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 3:48 PM

There hasn’t been a continuous wave or Russian or Southeastern African or Italian or German migration. There is a continuous wave of Latino migration because we stubbornly refuse to secure the border. The reason you’re given the option of pressing “2″ for Spanish is because we keep getting more and more people here who grew up in Mexico or farther south.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 3:46 PM

You know what “reconquista” is, right?

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 3:48 PM

The idea that you can’t deport the 11 mil law breakers is the fantasy. Enforcing the current immigration laws will make it impossible for illegals to live here. That’s why elites want immigration “reform”.Eisenhower was able to remove 1.3 mil illegals from the US in the 1950s in about 4 months with just 700 agents.The policy was to remove 1000 illegals a day every day.However many more then that left each day as illegals ran for the border when they saw the law being enforced.

Hera on April 1, 2014 at 3:49 PM

Careful what you say, some may same about you.

Tater Salad on April 1, 2014 at 3:44 PM

Ah, the old “I’m rubber, you’re glue” elementary school debate strategy.

Good one.

Midas on April 1, 2014 at 3:49 PM

Ah, the old “I’m rubber, you’re glue” elementary school debate strategy.

Good one.

Midas on April 1, 2014 at 3:49 PM

I meant more like ‘stupid is as stupid does”.

Tater Salad on April 1, 2014 at 3:51 PM

Alchemist19,

Immigrant groups like Poles and Irish should probably achieve parity more quickly because they look more like the dominant group and so can blend into it more seamlessly. Do you disagree with the conclusions of the source you cited and if so, why?

Because there’s no evidence they underperform their native abilities.

My position is a bit more nuanced than that but I would start by not acting like we don’t want them here….

Anyone here legally is obviously staying. Not even Pat Buchanan thinks otherwise. So that’s a straw man.

… or that they’re too stupid to function in the American mainstream.

They are what they are. You pretending different doesn’t make it so. You have thirty or forty Latin American countries to study and in not one will you find educational levels anywhere close to the American mainstream. And that is especially true in the countries from whence most Hispanic immigrants come.

I’m sorry you find that distasteful, but then maybe you find reality distasteful.

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 3:51 PM

It’s official. H/A comments section has given up all pretext of respect for people based on race, nationality or creed. Yeah, I don’t like to use a word that has been played so often and on such ludicrously bogus pretexts. However, it is time to tell it like it is. I say without any hyperbole, irony or rhetorical flourish that H/A is infested with RACISTS. What a sewer!

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 3:52 PM

If anybody, ANYBODY is wondering why the GOP has trouble attracting voters who are other than WASPs they should just read this thread and know that many in the party express views that are rather like these.

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 3:37 PM

So if we here start shilling for amnesty for every mexican drug dealer+pusher inside and outside of the US, mexicans will loyally vote for Republicans ?

burrata on April 1, 2014 at 3:52 PM

I meant more like ‘stupid is as stupid does”.

Tater Salad on April 1, 2014 at 3:51 PM

Which certainly explains why you lot propose doing more of the same stuff that has never worked before, I guess.

Midas on April 1, 2014 at 3:53 PM

It’s official. H/A comments section has given up all pretext of respect for people based on race, nationality or creed. Yeah, I don’t like to use a word that has been played so often and on such ludicrously bogus pretexts. However, it is time to tell it like it is. I say without any hyperbole, irony or rhetorical flourish that H/A is infested with RACISTS. What a sewer!

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 3:52 PM

There it is again. Sing it, KosBoy! Race card!

Cheese Wheel on April 1, 2014 at 3:53 PM

Deport as many as we can, and fear will get most of the rest to leave on their own. I’m okay with that. It does not follow from “we can’t deport them all” that “we shouldn’t enforce our laws at all.”

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 3:37 PM

That’s no small task. For starters they’re not all Mexican so we can’t just run trains to Tijuana, dump them at the border and tell them not to come back. Finding them, rounding them up and identifying them is going to be a time consuming and very expensive process; I shudder to think about how many new government employees we’re talking about to attempt to tackle that. We should enforce our laws but there’s nothing wrong with picking our battles, especially when we’re in a mess as big as the one we’re in now after nearly 30 years of neglect.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 3:54 PM

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 3:52 PM

*points and laughs derisively*

Yes, because demanding law enforcement is… RACIST!

Go f*ck yourself, crapweasel.

Midas on April 1, 2014 at 3:55 PM

Yes it means that an alien group of people live in your country and have the power to force you to change your culture and way of life. You know things like forcing you to adopt their language.

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 3:39 PM

So you do want to stick with hyperbole. Got it.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 3:55 PM

William Eaton,

I figured this argument would be used and no doubt there is that possibility. I said it was a risky strategy. However, Jews are a special case. They were always politically active and were at the hart of the progressive and leftist movements from day one. They have the power, economic and political. Asians are not, they are newcomers, and based on history new money always clashes with the old when the newcomers are not given the political power they feel they deserve.

Here’s an additional problem for your argument. Most immigrants are Democrats for the reasons I describe in this post.

I’m sorry, William, that you made the mistake of believing there was a compromise that would work. There isn’t. There’s no magical door small-government Republicans can walk through to make it all better.

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 3:55 PM

It’s official. H/A comments section has given up all pretext of respect for people based on race, nationality or creed. Yeah, I don’t like to use a word that has been played so often and on such ludicrously bogus pretexts. However, it is time to tell it like it is. I say without any hyperbole, irony or rhetorical flourish that H/A is infested with RACISTS. What a sewer!

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 3:52 PM

So just go away.

You aren’t going to contribute anything constructive or intelligent, so just go away.

You generalize without any specifics, so just go away.

You pretend superiority without knowledge of anything, so just go away.

Honestly, MaryJaneBrutus calling me racist means absolutely nothing, so just go away.

NotCoach on April 1, 2014 at 3:56 PM

So you do want to stick with hyperbole. Got it.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 3:55 PM

Well crafted argument you got there.

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 3:56 PM

I say without any hyperbole, irony or rhetorical flourish that H/A is infested with RACISTS. What a sewer!

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 3:52 PM

That’s it ?
Is that all this week’s supply of lotion buys for your lotion providers ?
:O

burrata on April 1, 2014 at 3:56 PM

There it is again. Sing it, KosBoy! Race card!

Cheese Wheel on April 1, 2014 at 3:53 PM

Cheese you may have missed the comment that WASP is the definition for “American”. I’m not aligned with MJB, but I was also appalled by comments like that.

If there is ever anyone who should be banned, it should be for comments like that.

Tater Salad on April 1, 2014 at 3:57 PM

Cheese Wheel on April 1, 2014 at 3:53 PM

Sure. I have not used that “card” before. Nope, never cried wolf. This thread has demonstrated, however, that the shoe fits.

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 3:57 PM

If that’s the lesson on border security, then why isn’t anyone making that argument?

Instead, we’re still back in 1986, where the pols are telling us they’ll secure the border once they get a comprehensive immigration bill (i.e., amnesty).

Most restrictionists understand that no one in the establishment is serious about border control because they don’t understand the implications of mass immigration.

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 3:40 PM

Any comprehensive bill is “amnesty”?

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 3:58 PM

That’s no small task. For starters they’re not all Mexican so we can’t just run trains to Tijuana, dump them at the border and tell them not to come back. Finding them, rounding them up and identifying them is going to be a time consuming and very expensive process; I shudder to think about how many new government employees we’re talking about to attempt to tackle that. We should enforce our laws but there’s nothing wrong with picking our battles, especially when we’re in a mess as big as the one we’re in now after nearly 30 years of neglect.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 3:54 PM

I don’t buy into that “we’re not enforcing the law so we can’t enforce the law” bullshit. Peddle that crap someplace else. We could shut down 50% of FedGov, use 25% of the laid off personnel to start enforcing immigration law, and still come out ahead in every respect given how much useless wasteful authoritarian crap FedGov does now.

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 3:58 PM

Deport as many as we can, and fear will get most of the rest to leave on their own. I’m okay with that. It does not follow from “we can’t deport them all” that “we shouldn’t enforce our laws at all.”

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 3:37 PM

That’s no small task. For starters they’re not all Mexican so we can’t just run trains to Tijuana, dump them at the border and tell them not to come back. Finding them, rounding them up and identifying them is going to be a time consuming and very expensive process; I shudder to think about how many new government employees we’re talking about to attempt to tackle that. We should enforce our laws but there’s nothing wrong with picking our battles, especially when we’re in a mess as big as the one we’re in now after nearly 30 years of neglect.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 3:54 PM

E-Verify for everyone. Stop the welfare and the ability to take jobs, they will go home. Getting back to x country, that’s their problem, not ours. Let Mexico deal with all the South Americans. You know they have a real keen southern border fence and strict immigration laws, that Mexico.

Cheese Wheel on April 1, 2014 at 3:58 PM

Secure the Borders! Enforce the Law

workingclass artist on April 1, 2014 at 3:14 PM

Democrats will never support securing the border because it will significantly reduce the importance of the immigration issue. As long as the border is unsecured, immigration will remain an issue that helps Democrats with Hispanic voters (turnout wise) and places Republicans in an awkward position.

Many Democrats would rather have the ability to portray Republicans as wanting to break-up families than actually fixing the immigration problem. If they finally get Republicans to cave on legalization, that’s fine with them; the immigration issue would return to the spotlight in less than five years without border security anyway.

midgeorgian on April 1, 2014 at 3:58 PM

Sure. I have not used that “card” before. Nope, never cried wolf. This thread has demonstrated, however, that the shoe fits.

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 3:57 PM

Now if we could just get the stink of you off the bottom of our shoes.

NotCoach on April 1, 2014 at 3:59 PM

It’s official. H/A comments section has given up all pretext of respect for people based on race, nationality or creed. Yeah, I don’t like to use a word that has been played so often and on such ludicrously bogus pretexts. However, it is time to tell it like it is. I say without any hyperbole, irony or rhetorical flourish that H/A is infested with RACISTS. What a sewer!

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 3:52 PM

“Waycists.” It’s spelled “waycists.”

vlad martel on April 1, 2014 at 3:59 PM

So if we here start shilling for amnesty for every mexican drug dealer+pusher inside and outside of the US, mexicans will loyally vote for Republicans ?

burrata on April 1, 2014 at 3:52 PM

Congratulations! You’ve just described the GOP strategy. You’ve just won a trip to balkanization, and eventual collapse.

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 4:00 PM

vlad martel on April 1, 2014 at 3:59 PM

That’s right. Revel in it.

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 4:00 PM

You know what “reconquista” is, right?

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 3:48 PM

Sure. It’s a fanciful and unrealistic romanticized notion of all the land east of the Mississippi and south of Oregon becoming a part of Mexico. But the prospect of such a thing is absurd so I don’t sweat it.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 4:00 PM

Alchemist19,

Any comprehensive bill is “amnesty”?

In current political discourse, absolutely. It’s code for focusing on the interests of the illegal aliens, not the interests of restrictionists.

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 4:01 PM

That’s right. Revel in it.

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 4:00 PM

Well, yeah…you clearly are.

vlad martel on April 1, 2014 at 4:03 PM

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 4:00 PM

The Left wing analog to tree of liberty and nullification fantasies.

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 4:03 PM

Alchemist19,

Sure. It’s a fanciful and unrealistic romanticized notion of all the land east of the Mississippi and south of Oregon becoming a part of Mexico. But the prospect of such a thing is absurd so I don’t sweat it.

Almost as absurd as the idea of an independent Scotland or Wales. Or an independent Quebec.

Americans in the seventies and eighties believed gay marriage was absurd. How do their views look now?

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 4:03 PM

E-Verify for everyone. Stop the welfare and the ability to take jobs, they will go home. Getting back to x country, that’s their problem, not ours. Let Mexico deal with all the South Americans. You know they have a real keen southern border fence and strict immigration laws, that Mexico.

Cheese Wheel on April 1, 2014 at 3:58 PM

That was Romney’s self deportation strategy.

Tater Salad on April 1, 2014 at 4:03 PM

You know what “reconquista” is, right?

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 3:48 PM

Sure. It’s a fanciful and unrealistic romanticized notion of all the land east of the Mississippi and south of Oregon becoming a part of Mexico. But the prospect of such a thing is absurd so I don’t sweat it.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 4:00 PM

I’m sure they said the same thing in Europe just before the blitzkrieg. Whether reconquista will happen or not is not the issue, anyway. We should not be letting immigrants in with checkered or even remotely dubious loyalties. You can call me racist and nativist all day long, but at the end of the day, I don’t give a shit what color someone’s skin is. Undermining your host country from within is a conscious choice, it is seditious, and we are under no obligation to allow it just because these poor people lived in shit holes before they came here.

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 4:04 PM

Sure. It’s a fanciful and unrealistic romanticized notion of all the land east of the Mississippi and south of Oregon becoming a part of Mexico. But the prospect of such a thing is absurd so I don’t sweat it.

alchemist19 on April 1, 2014 at 4:00 PM

Then you’re an unimaginative dunce. What’s to stop a steady demographic shift causing a Crimea type succession election that will be honored by the UN. While not joining Mexico it will create a Mexican proxy state that will probably be called El Norte.

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 4:04 PM

I’ll have these n!ggers voting Democrat for the next 200 years.

–Lyndon Baines Johnson, 1963

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 3:39 PM

Is your point to prove that Johnson was right, or that he was a Democrat. Either way…mission accomplished!

cajunpatriot on April 1, 2014 at 4:04 PM

Cheese Wheel on April 1, 2014 at 3:53 PM

Sure. I have not used that “card” before. Nope, never cried wolf. This thread has demonstrated, however, that the shoe fits.

MJBrutus on April 1, 2014 at 3:57 PM

When all leftist arguments have failed, throw the race card. You always deliver, KosBoy.

Cheese Wheel on April 1, 2014 at 4:05 PM

End automatic citizenship for the children of foreign nationals unless one parent is a citizen or legal permanent resident.

thatsafactjack on April 1, 2014 at 3:30 PM

Correct me if I’m wrong but this would take a change to the Constitution, or at least the 14th amendment. It is however, one of the stickier issues. If they are American citizens, they get all the rights due under our system.

We need to make it difficult using E-verify etc.. to stay if you arent legal. Without a significant increase in the government bureaucracy you will not have the manpower to execute many of things proposed here. (my opinion) Make it difficult to work, no benefits etc.. and many will leave on their own.

argusx2002 on April 1, 2014 at 4:05 PM

gryphon202,

We should not be letting immigrants in with checkered or even remotely dubious loyalties.

You mean no more Tsarnaevs? What are you, some kind of extremist?

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 4:07 PM

You know what “reconquista” is, right?

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 3:48 PM

I’ll assume you believe this to be the case.

I’ll also tell you that while I don’t necessarily believe it to be true, it is neither an oddball theory, nor is it racist nor nativist to believe it.

Now, given the realities I described earlier, of one poor nation with an exploding population right next to a rich nation with a stagnant population, with the attendant welfare disparities, we can agree that this is a problem that isn’t going to stop.

How then does this game end…?

JohnGalt23 on April 1, 2014 at 4:09 PM

“A racist is someone winning an argument with a liberal.”

vlad martel on April 1, 2014 at 4:09 PM

E-Verify for everyone. Stop the welfare and the ability to take jobs, they will go home. Getting back to x country, that’s their problem, not ours. Let Mexico deal with all the South Americans. You know they have a real keen southern border fence and strict immigration laws, that Mexico.

Cheese Wheel on April 1, 2014 at 3:58 PM

That was Romney’s self deportation strategy.

Tater Salad on April 1, 2014 at 4:03 PM

But, he didn’t really mean it-

Former presidential candidate Mitt Romney, who took a restrictionist hard line on illegal immigration during last year’s campaign, said Friday that undocumented immigrants should have a chance to obtain legal status.

Romney’s support for a path to legal status is in stark contrast to the position many in his own Republican Party have taken on the issue, and a dramatic departure from the views he expressed last year while running for president.

On the campaign trail, Romney said he was against giving undocumented immigrants a break, and that he favored making life so difficult for them that they would opt for “self-deportation.”

But in an interview Friday with CBS News, the former Massachusetts governor said: “I do believe those who come here illegally ought to have an opportunity to get in line with everybody else.”

Romney continued: “I don’t think those who come here illegally should jump to the front of the line or be given a special deal, be rewarded for coming here illegally, but I think they should have a chance just like anybody else to get in line and to become a citizen if they’d like to do so,” he said.

Romney also said that the Republican Party must address immigration and work on legislation to reform the system.

They didn’t call him flip flop for nothing.

Cheese Wheel on April 1, 2014 at 4:10 PM

I realize that Paul, like any other Republican, have to try and make Latinos think that anybody cares about them, but do they have to alienate their voter base every time they do it? Why can’t they just say that they support enforcement of the law? If Latinos want to keep voting for their slave masters (Democrats) so be it. Whites still make up 70% of the population (for now anyway). Maybe Paul might focus on everyone instead of any minority group.

cajunpatriot on April 1, 2014 at 4:11 PM

“A racist is someone winning an argument with a liberal.”

vlad martel on April 1, 2014 at 4:09 PM

I guess that makes anyone MaryJaneBrutus comes in contact with a racist.

NotCoach on April 1, 2014 at 4:11 PM

How then does this game end…?

JohnGalt23 on April 1, 2014 at 4:09 PM

How have these types of games always ended? When one group desires the resources of another group. It seems to me we have plenty of examples of how it always ends.

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 4:11 PM

Here is an article from the LA Times on the Affirmative Action conflict in California.

The money quote is:

But the issue won’t go away. Last week, black and Latino lawmakers released a statement declaring that they stand behind Hernandez’s measure, SCA 5, despite the baggage and want to see it revived. “Let there not be any doubt,” Lara said. “The Black caucus and Latino caucus strongly support SCA 5, and we are committed to put something on the ballot in 2016.”

This is only going to create more division and conflict in the “big tent” Democratic coalition. Someone will get thrown under the bus. Considering the Dems obsession with the Hispanic vote I suspect it will be Asians, mostly Chinese. Now remember some estimates have it that 10-20 million Chinese want to immigrate to the U.S. and if you know anything about Mexican history the last time Chinese and Mexicans interacted it did not end well.

William Eaton on April 1, 2014 at 4:11 PM

The story of conservatism since the election is the dawning realization that the GOP is hopelessly compromised.

vlad martel on April 1, 2014 at 4:11 PM

Look, it’s very simple. Hispanics have never voted for the Republican Party, and they never will. The reason is simple: They like big government. So any proposal which seeks to increase Hispanic voters ought to be a NO SALE for any small government Republican who has more concerns than just getting elected to office

Pincher Martin on April 1, 2014 at 3:10 PM

First, notice that I mentioned that they were an asset to America, not the Republican party. Second, Republicans haven’t been really great at winning elections, especially Presidential elections recently. There needs to be greater outreach to minority voters and new groups to actually win a Presidential election.

Illinidiva on April 1, 2014 at 4:12 PM

How have these types of games always ended? When one group desires the resources of another group. It seems to me we have plenty of examples of how it always ends.

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 4:11 PM

I’d like you to say it, knowing I consider this theory to be neither racist nor nativist…

JohnGalt23 on April 1, 2014 at 4:12 PM

Yes

Tater Salad on April 1, 2014 at 2:30 PM

Good. Glad to hear it. That said, he must not say it very often. I have heard him say, many times, and rightfully so, his dislike of the NSA, the IRS, the dems and Obama breaking the law etc. But it would seem that a flood of people invading America and breaking many laws and causing many crimes, many violent crimes against innocent people, would be more of a focus.

Mimzey on April 1, 2014 at 4:13 PM

The story of conservatism since the election is the dawning realization that the GOP is hopelessly compromised.

vlad martel on April 1, 2014 at 4:11 PM

We’re on our own boys and girls.

DFCtomm on April 1, 2014 at 4:14 PM

I’ll assume you believe this to be the case.

I’ll also tell you that while I don’t necessarily believe it to be true, it is neither an oddball theory, nor is it racist nor nativist to believe it.

Now, given the realities I described earlier, of one poor nation with an exploding population right next to a rich nation with a stagnant population, with the attendant welfare disparities, we can agree that this is a problem that isn’t going to stop.

How then does this game end…?

JohnGalt23 on April 1, 2014 at 4:09 PM

Enforce the law, determine its effectiveness while you are enforcing it to the letter, and adjust accordingly. If I’m right, and reconquista is a thing, then it can not hurt to enforce the law equally for all and reward loyalty while punishing disloyalty. It is also ethically and morally correct in terms of how difficult securing a green card is, let alone the tortuous naturalization process.

On the other hand, if I’m wrong, and reconquista is a product of fevered imagination that is absolutely no threat whatsoever to American culture, how does enforcing the law equally for all harm American interests? Why am I being asked to support changing a law that FedGov is no longer making any pretense towards enforcing?

gryphon202 on April 1, 2014 at 4:14 PM

I didn’t expect false dichotomies from Rand.

We ARE NOT TALKING DEPORTATION versus amnesty- we are talking attrition through enforcement, damn it!!!!

Romney stupidly phrased it wrong and fell into their trap by using “self-deportation” instead of “attrition through law enforcement”.

He should have just said we intend to respect all our laws, enforce all our laws, and deny benefits to those who disrespect our laws.

Even 40% of Hispanics go for this policy!

The ONLY poll to offer all three choices:

http://www.jmisys.com/immigrationmarches/zogby5.html

fred5678 on April 1, 2014 at 4:14 PM

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