Immigration activists: Obama’s hinted to us that he’ll act in three months if the House doesn’t

posted at 11:21 am on March 27, 2014 by Allahpundit

Could just be empty blather from amnesty fans aimed at scaring Boehner into acting (which is also what the new Democratic discharge petition is about) but the timeline is specific and Greg Sargent has two different sources for it. Evidently O said something to these people privately to make them think there’ll be movement on immigration this summer, one way or another.

Last chance for the GOP leadership to catch the amnesty train before it leaves the station?

Two immigration reform advocates who have spoken personally with the president in recent days tell me they came away convinced he knows he will have to resort to executive action by summer if Republicans do nothing.

“The president made it clear that three months from now, if there is no legislative action, he will do more using executive authority,” says Lorella Praelli, the director of advocacy and policy for United We Dream, who was in a recent meeting between advocates and President Obama. “That was the message that we got in different ways.”

“The president left the clear impression that if Republicans don’t act in three months, he will,” added Frank Sharry of America’s Voice, who was also at the meeting…

[T]he fact is there is good reason to think Obama will likely act if Republicans don’t move by summer. The Department of Homeland Security is already reviewing possibilities. If nothing happens by July, and we head into August recess, it’s hard to imagine Republicans acting in September or October, when the midterms are in full swing.

It’s now or never for Boehner, says Sargent, who makes the same point Matt Lewis did a few months ago about the prospects for reform next year. If the GOP does nothing on immigration now and ends up crushing the Democrats in November anyway, some border hawks will take it as a sign that doing nothing is the way to go electorally. If inaction delivers the Senate to Republicans, more inaction might deliver the White House, no? And it’s true, that argument will be made. But if there’s any lesson to be gleaned from the last three election cycles, it’s that the electorate for midterm elections and the electorate for presidential elections are starkly different creatures. We’ve bounced from an Obama landslide in 2008 to a Republican landslide in 2010 back to an Obama landslide in 2012 and likely back again to another GOP rout this fall. If you believe that amnesty is a “gateway issue” that must pass with GOP support before Latino voters will give the Republican agenda a fair hearing — and a lot of influential Republicans do seem to believe it — then having a winning formula in 2014 (which includes inaction on immigration) potentially means little for 2016, when the electorate will be bluer and turnout among Latinos will be higher. That’s why every prospective GOP nominee, Ted Cruz included, supports some form of legalization for illegals. Either Boehner will get together with Obama and the Senate early next year to pass immigration reform or, if that proves impossible for whatever reason, you’ll hear plenty of promises from Republican presidential candidates about working with Congress to pass reform lickety split once they’re in office in 2017. Like it or not, Paul Ryan’s right.

But that’s the future. The question for the present is whether an executive amnesty would help or hurt Democrats in the midterms. There’s virtually no way it helps, right? If red-staters like Landrieu and Hagan are in trouble now because of ObamaCare, imagine how tough it’ll be for them once they’re forced to answer for King Barack’s royal proclamation that all non-criminal illegals are free to stay. They could try attacking him over it, but that probably won’t work. Their lame attempts to distance themselves from O-Care haven’t dug them out of the hole, after all; why would they have any more success with amnesty? When a president becomes an albatross for his party, his unpopular acts damage his party’s candidates even when they have nothing to do with them. Which is why, I assume, whatever O’s planning to do three months from now will be exceedingly modest — e.g., dropping deportations of illegals with minor criminal records a bit further down ICE’s priority list but not declaring any sort of broad moratorium for the illegal population generally. That way he can say he did something for amnesty fans without having done anything so dramatic that it further damages Democrats’ electoral chances in November. The only way he’d do something splashy, I think, is if Landrieu et al. have fallen so far behind this summer that there’s virtually nothing to lose by declaring a moratorium. At that point, he might figure that a bold gesture could bring out a few more Latino voters, and even if it doesn’t, it’ll bank some gratitude for the party to use in 2016.


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 2

According to Sessions, O’s all but eliminated deportations anyway. He can’t XO them the right to vote, right?

BKeyser on March 27, 2014 at 11:47 AM

And whats to stop him? The law?

BobMbx on March 27, 2014 at 1:43 PM

The notion of a fence of any kind along our southern border offends me every bit as much as the notion of amnesty for lawbreakers. I’d be impressed with, and vote for, any elected official who proposes and enacts a law banning the use of our airwaves for foreign language broadcasts. If there is no assimilation, we have no future as a nation.

The only way to eliminate hiring of illegal aliens is with heavy penalties on employers. This is not fair to employers, but then what is when it comes to the Feds.

Our immigration laws must be a benefit to the nation, not to some buls**t notion of social justice.

Sheerq on March 27, 2014 at 1:48 PM

Immigration activists: Obama’s hinted to us that he’ll act in three months if the House doesn’t

Right before an election…I doubt it. If he ever does, maybe than the GOP will grow a set and file articles of impeachment.

cajunpatriot on March 27, 2014 at 1:50 PM

I call bull. Why would Obama give up a chance to demagogue 4 months before the midterms?

blammm on March 27, 2014 at 1:57 PM

Any remaining undocumented Americans illegal aliens can be gracefully returned to their original country.

Frank Lib on March 27, 2014 at 12:44 PM

You forgot to add the /sarc/ tag, cupcake.

Solaratov on March 27, 2014 at 1:58 PM

Any remaining undocumented Americans illegal aliens can be gracefully returned to their original country.

Frank Lib on March 27, 2014 at 12:44 PM

You forgot to add the /sarc/ tag, cupcake.

Solaratov on March 27, 2014 at 1:58 PM

I think we should call them foreign invader criminals with stolen documents.

magicbeans on March 27, 2014 at 2:05 PM

Why do conservatives have issues with the President making a few corrections to our racist immigration policies?

You are the racist. You and those like you support modern day slavery. That’s all the illegal cheap labor is and amnesty will further more of it. You won’t find the rich Mexicans coming to America, except for good healthcare and to drop their new kids onto US American soil.

Any undocumented American illegal alien and trespasser that comes to this country (illegally) should be allowed to stay, so long as they can show they are working, going to school, undergoing medical treatment, possess some type of skill, or have friends or relatives who meet one of these conditions.

Pay for them yourself, you looter for moochers of the world.

In addition, those who are physically or mentally unable to work or go to school deserve to remain in this country and receive the full support of our free social programs.

The US is not the Caritas of the World, fool. You can adopt them yourself, looter.

Any remaining undocumented Americans illegal aliens and trespassers can be gracefully returned to their original country.

Frank Lib on March 27, 2014 at 12:44 PM

Leaves none, based on your gnatbrain.

You deserve to have the muzzie treatment, which will be sooner than you think.

Schadenfreude on March 27, 2014 at 2:36 PM

Immigration reform will be the death of the Republican Party, mark my words…

nullrouted on March 27, 2014 at 2:39 PM

And Susan Powers is going around pointing out that “Borders mean something..as Obama ignores our southern border and she advocates for Israel to ignore theirs.
These people are nuts, and they have massive power over our country and it’s future.

Mimzey on March 27, 2014 at 2:43 PM

Immigration reform will be the death of the Republican Party, mark my words…

nullrouted on March 27, 2014 at 2:39 PM

Good riddance!!! Both parties are traitorous.

Schadenfreude on March 27, 2014 at 2:44 PM

Any remaining undocumented Americans illegal aliens and trespassers can be gracefully returned to their original country.

Frank Lib on March 27, 2014 at 12:44 PM

Schadenfreude on March 27, 2014 at 2:45 PM

For those who are opposed to reforming our laws prior to enforcing the laws we already have on the books first, who’s up for deporting 11 to 12 million people?

MJBrutus on March 27, 2014 at 12:01 PM

You underestimate the numbers. And we deport them. The law isn’t built to be kind and understanding, it is to be cold and objective.

Immigration reform will be the death of the Republican Party, mark my words…

nullrouted on March 27, 2014 at 2:39 PM

Only a matter of time with MJBrutus and the like leading the charge.

nobar on March 27, 2014 at 2:57 PM

Paul Ryan usually is. There is no excuse for PBHO’s lawlessness. However, it is also inexcusable for Congress to fail to reform such a badly broken system. It isn’t as though this first became a problem in 2008.

MJBrutus on March 27, 2014 at 11:40 AM

“Broken System?” So if a few million people do something illegally, we call it a broken system? What planet are you from? Oh, the one where there are no laws. We just decide arbitrarily to set laws by the whims of…who? The people? The people who came here illegally? Politicians? Please tell me who sets the laws in this country? By your account it’s whoever is breaking the law the most.

Are you then for repealing the federal income tax, because a few million Americans decide not to pay them?

What you prescribe is lawlessness. Or in other words, anarchy.

Deckard BR on March 27, 2014 at 2:58 PM

I’m not saying it was aliens meme.

LegendHasIt on March 27, 2014 at 3:05 PM

I really do not comprehend this sense of entitlement that illegal aliens have about this country…..I dont see how or why we owe them anything. Sure we have a history of immigration but WE get to pick and choose who we want to allow in and that decision should be made exclusively on what that person can and will be able to contribute to our country…not how much we need to give to them and their children and parents, etc. It’s funny that the same groups applauding the diversity immigration brings…pushes for 80 percent of immigrants to come from just one single country. I guess diversity only matters…when they think it should. If the same energy and outrage were expressed and directed towards illegal aliens own country’s governments perhaps they wouldn’t be fleeing them in droves. And why is the United States not allowed to be a sovereign country…when did we lose that right???

Caseoftheblues on March 27, 2014 at 3:12 PM

Deckard BR on March 27, 2014 at 2:58 PM

I’m from the planet Earth and living in the real world. The world where America does not uproot 12 million people and send them packing. Whatever fantasy you are living in I suggest you leave it and wake up. That is quite simply NEVER going to happen. So, it is past time for America to formulate a new game plan.

And our tax code is also badly in need of reform. The humongous rate of non-compliance is certainly a symptom of that.

MJBrutus on March 27, 2014 at 3:17 PM

I’m from the planet Earth and living in the real world. The world where America does not uproot 12 million people and send them packing. Whatever fantasy you are living in I suggest you leave it and wake up. That is quite simply NEVER going to happen. So, it is past time for America to formulate a new game plan.

And our tax code is also badly in need of reform. The humongous rate of non-compliance is certainly a symptom of that.

MJBrutus on March 27, 2014 at 3:17 PM

Once again you repeat the strawman lie. No one is talking about rounding up 30 million illegals at once. Of course the idea is preposterous, which is exactly why it is used. Pure BULLSHIT. We send them home or they self deport a few at a time until they are gone.

They are CRIMINALS, and as many as half are PARASITES. They have to go.

dogsoldier on March 27, 2014 at 3:24 PM

dogsoldier on March 27, 2014 at 3:24 PM

Your claim of my strawman is in fact a strawman :-)

I never accused anyone of talking about rounding (choose whatever number you want to make up) at once. Long live the meta-strawman!

MJBrutus on March 27, 2014 at 3:28 PM

The system isn’t broken. It works fine if the laws are enforced. And Obungle and his cohorts aren’t going to do anything unpopular before the election.

crankyoldlady on March 27, 2014 at 4:41 PM

@MJBrutus

I guess in your haste to ignore anything that blows holes in your nonsense, you conveniently overlooked my last challenge to you.

So I’ll repeat it.

In ten years, 30% of your 11 million were forcibly evacuated with no problems. So explain to us how exporting 3.5 million people over 10 years was pulled off with ease, yet exporting 11 million over 20 years is going to be catastrophic.

Specifics please…meaning that while “I’m from the planet Earth” may count as “evidence” at the coffee shops and drum-ins, it isn’t quite up to snuff with people who are capable of reasoned, critical thinking.

rvastar on March 27, 2014 at 5:10 PM

rvastar on March 27, 2014 at 5:10 PM

Not overlooked. Not worth the time to debunk you premise.

MJBrutus on March 27, 2014 at 5:15 PM

The world where America does not uproot 12 million people and send them packing.

MJBrutus on March 27, 2014 at 3:17 PM

MJBrutus on March 27, 2014 at 3:28 PM

Your words right there.

dogsoldier on March 27, 2014 at 6:58 PM

ROFL KOSKLOWN beclowns himself…again.

Murphy9 on March 27, 2014 at 7:20 PM

If this happens well then it’s time to storm the gates of Washington..heck it’s time now to do that..King Obama has to be stopped

sadsushi on March 27, 2014 at 7:23 PM

Once again you repeat the strawman lie. No one is talking about rounding up 30 million illegals at once. Of course the idea is preposterous, which is exactly why it is used. Pure BULLSHIT. We send them home or they self deport a few at a time until they are gone.

They are CRIMINALS, and as many as half are PARASITES. They have to go.

dogsoldier on March 27, 2014 at 3:24 PM

I think if we started to aggressively enforce the law most of them would leave on their own. Others can be picked up whenever they come to the notice of law enforcment.

crankyoldlady on March 27, 2014 at 7:44 PM

Not overlooked. Not worth the time to debunk you premise.

MJBrutus on March 27, 2014 at 5:15 PM

How typically Lefty…

“Responding to you isn’t worthy of my intellectual greatness.”

Well, Your Awesomeness, why don’t you indulge us all and shine your light of wisdom down upon us. Since my question is so simplistic, it shouldn’t take you but a couple sentences of Lefty brilliance to shred my “premise” to pieces, right?

Again…

In ten years, 30% of your 11 million were forcibly evacuated with no problems. So explain to us how exporting 3.5 million people over 10 years was pulled off with ease, yet exporting 11 million over 20 years is going to be catastrophic.

To everyone else here: until this intellectually dishonest coward responds to my very straightforward query with an actual fact-based rebuttal, I recommend that every time he posts on this thread, simply cut-n-paste the following:

“Provide an explanation in response to rvastar’s request. Until you do so, you prove yourself to be a coward.”

rvastar on March 27, 2014 at 7:47 PM

Your words right there.

dogsoldier on March 27, 2014 at 6:58 PM

Where is the “at once” part, you lying liar who lies about other people lying?

MJBrutus on March 27, 2014 at 7:49 PM

rvastar on March 27, 2014 at 7:47 PM

You don’t even say what 10 year period you are talking about. Sorry, but I am not going to waste time guessing about your bogus claims so that I can put paid to them.

And I am as “Left” as Ryan, Rubio, Rand and a whole lot of others on the right.

MJBrutus on March 27, 2014 at 7:50 PM

Another dodge, Lefty.

According to the Dept.of Homeland security, 3.5 MILLION illegals were deported in the 10 years between 2003-2012:

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2014/01/24/record-number-of-deportations-in-2012/

Increase the deportation rate by 20%…stick to that rate and make the illegals understand that they will be caught and deported, with their every possession confiscated…and the problem is solved in less than 20 years through deportation and self-deportation.

I’m not seeing the “problem” that you’re inferring. Care to explain further?

rvastar on March 27, 2014 at 12:55 PM

A post that you responded to, Lefty.

So…provide an explanation in response to my request. Until you do so, you prove yourself to be a coward.

rvastar on March 27, 2014 at 7:54 PM

I think if we started to aggressively enforce the law most of them would leave on their own. Others can be picked up whenever they come to the notice of law enforcement.

crankyoldlady on March 27, 2014 at 7:44 PM

When jobs dry up because employers can no longer hire them, they will go home.

slickwillie2001 on March 27, 2014 at 7:57 PM

rvastar on March 27, 2014 at 7:54 PM

And yet the number of illegals did not decline over that period. In fact it grew. So your claim of any net reduction, let alone a 30% reduction is pure BS. There, your bogus premise is put paid to and that shows you to be the obvious fraud I knew you to be before I allowed you to waste my time.

MJBrutus on March 27, 2014 at 7:58 PM

A red herring from a Lefty…how surprising.

Declines or not, 3.5 MILLION were DEPORTED in 10 years, thus clearly showing that your mooing about 11 million DEPORTATIONS representing some sort of outlandish fever-dream is a lie. Period.

Again…

In ten years, 30% of your 11 million were forcibly evacuated with no problems. So explain to us how exporting 3.5 million people over 10 years was pulled off with ease, yet exporting 11 million over 20 years is going to be catastrophic.

So…provide an explanation in response to my request. Until you do so, you prove yourself to be a coward.

rvastar on March 27, 2014 at 8:05 PM

rvastar on March 27, 2014 at 8:05 PM

You are a fraud. How many of those were deported at the border? That number would count in your bogus total but would not reduce the population in the country by a single person. You are so full of it, your eyes are brown.

But I’ll go you one further. People like you pretend that everyone in this country thinks like you. That all people are callous, short-sighted and willing to stand by idly through the suffering and injustices your preferred policy would cause.

News flash: Most Americans are not like you. So not only will you have millions of immigrants resisting the cruelty of your “plan”, but you will have many times that number of citizens rebelling against it. Americans will simply not tolerate the crap you are peddling. Wise up.

MJBrutus on March 27, 2014 at 8:11 PM

You are a fraud. How many of those were deported at the border? That number would count in your bogus total but would not reduce the population in the country by a single person.

Another red herring, since deportation is deportation. The point is that it can be done, and it can be done on a scale of MILLIONS with no problem…as VERY RECENT HISTORY clearly shows.

You are so full of it, your eyes are brown.

Ad hominem.

But I’ll go you one further. People like you pretend that everyone in this country thinks like you. That all people are callous, short-sighted and willing to stand by idly through the suffering and injustices your preferred policy would cause.

Straw man, unless you can point out anything I’ve posted that infers a belief on my part that “everyone in this country thinks like” me.

News flash: Most Americans are not like you. So not only will you have millions of immigrants resisting the cruelty of your “plan”, but you will have many times that number of citizens rebelling against it. Americans will simply not tolerate the crap you are peddling. Wise up.

Non sequitur, since your “resistance” doesn’t exist anywhere in the historical record and therefore cannot be assumed at all.

Any more fallacious “arguments” you want to try peddling?

You think about it.

In the meantime…

In ten years, 30% of your 11 million were forcibly evacuated with no problems. So explain to us how exporting 3.5 million people over 10 years was pulled off with ease, yet exporting 11 million over 20 years is going to be catastrophic.

Provide an explanation in response to my request. Until you do so, you prove yourself to be a coward.

rvastar on March 27, 2014 at 8:22 PM

rvastar on March 27, 2014 at 8:22 PM

You are a fraud. I gave you a link that proves that the number of illegals increased during a time when you claimed a 30% reduction. There was no golden age of immigration of enforcement.

And of course resistance is very evident. ave you been asleep during the protests in AZ over their attempt to enforce Federal immigration law? That is nothing compared to the solidarity you will see if DC pols were as stupid as you would like them to be. The protests and resistance would make the Vietnam era look like a town hall.

Dismissed. I’m done with you.

MJBrutus on March 27, 2014 at 8:27 PM

You are a fraud. I gave you a link that proves that the number of illegals increased during a time when you claimed a 30% reduction. There was no golden age of immigration of enforcement.

Another red herring. Doesn’t make one bit of difference, unless you’re claiming that Homeland Security is lying about the 3.5 MILLION deportations.

If so, provide evidence. If not, you lose.

And of course resistance is very evident. ave you been asleep during the protests in AZ over their attempt to enforce Federal immigration law? That is nothing compared to the solidarity you will see if DC pols were as stupid as you would like them to be. The protests and resistance would make the Vietnam era look like a town hall.

Another non sequitur, for exactly the same reasons…or do you care to explain where all of that protesting and RESISTANCE was while 3.5 MILLION DEPORTATIONS took place in a 10 year period? I must have missed it in between all the stories about Justin Bieber and Lindsey Lohan.

How many people were killed in “the resistance”?

Did the freedom fighters manage to pick off a couple of pigs and baby-killers during the struggle?

Furthermore, since when has criminals and criminal abettors – like yourself – disliking of rational, Constitutionally valid laws served as an excuse for not enforcing said laws? Should we not arrest murderers or rapists because they don’t like the fact that murder and rape are illegal?

Dismissed. I’m done with you.

Yeah, you’re done alright. And everybody who reads this exchange will clearly see why.

rvastar on March 27, 2014 at 8:44 PM

rvastar on March 27, 2014 at 8:44 PM

That’s right. Anyone who knows that 12 million is more than 7 million will know that you are FOS. Those who don’t will agree with you.

MJBrutus on March 27, 2014 at 9:03 PM

It really is a sad thing…watching a drowning man flail around, desperately clutching for something – ANYTHING! – to keep his head above water.

INCREASE the DEPORTATION rate by 20 PERCENT…stick to that rate and make the illegals understand that THEY WILL BE CAUGHT and deported, with their EVERY POSSESSION CONFISCATED…and the problem is solved in less than 20 years through deportation and SELF-DEPORTATION.

rvastar on March 27, 2014 at 12:55 PM

Hmmmmm…what, oh what, could I have possibly meant by using the word “increase”?

Anything else, Lefty? You haven’t tried “Why are you trying to take away their contraception!?”

…or “You just want the illegals back in chains again!”

…or “Koch brothers!”

…or “Look! Over there!”

rvastar on March 27, 2014 at 9:24 PM

From today’s Victor Davis Hanson column:

No one knows how many foreign citizens who entered the U.S. illegally were apprehended inside the United States and returned to their country of origin last year — a figure vital for any compromise on passing comprehensive immigration reform.

The Obama administration claims near-record numbers of deportations. In fact, once again government agencies — in this case the U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) — have mysteriously changed the way they compile statistics. The ICE now counts as deportations those foreign nationals whom the Border Patrol immediately stops or turns away at the border. Such detentions were not previously counted as deportations.

The result is that bureaucrats can report near-record numbers of deportations, while privately assuring the administration that immigration enforcement has been greatly relaxed.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2014/03/27/massaging_of_critical_data_undermines_our_society_122077.html

Sheerq on March 27, 2014 at 10:04 PM

If this Mother F**ker passin something like this by executive order, especially after using it to bypass congress so many times already, then someone needs to rid this world of this Un American POS.

F_This on March 27, 2014 at 10:49 PM

Where is the “at once” part, you lying liar who lies about other people lying?

MJBrutus on March 27, 2014 at 7:49 PM

It’s implied by your omission of anything to the contrary. The standard tactic of the left.

dogsoldier on March 28, 2014 at 5:05 AM

dogsoldier on March 28, 2014 at 5:05 AM

Oooh. Oooh. It’s implied. So you accused me of lying because you inferred what I did not say. IOW YMTSU (you made that sh-t up) and then accused me of telling a lie.

What a lying sack of lying lies you are.

MJBrutus on March 28, 2014 at 6:53 AM

MJBrutus on March 28, 2014 at 6:53 AM

Ok so you did not intend that? Why didn’t you say so? So you’re saying that over time we as a people will not deport or encourage a large number of criminal trespassers to leave?

We have done it before and more than once. And yeah every time some one says you’re not going to deport x millions of illegals IT IS IMPLIED THAT IT’S ALL AT ONCE.

Sucks when you get caught. Burns doesn’t it?

dogsoldier on March 28, 2014 at 8:21 AM

dogsoldier on March 28, 2014 at 8:21 AM

Why do you keep telling the same lie, over and over. When someone says that we are going to deport x number of illegals, IS IT IMPLIED THAT IT’S ALL AT ONCE?

That is the best that you can do. Lie about what I said and then accuse me of telling the lie that you made up.

YMTSU

Dismissed. I am done with you and your funny, fraudulent friend.

MJBrutus on March 28, 2014 at 10:13 AM

I see you have chosen not to articulate exactly what you did mean. Instead you employed another standard tactic of the left, “WHEN THEY HANDYOU YOUR BALLS, ATTACK THEM!!”

your a Liberal reject and failure.

dogsoldier on March 28, 2014 at 12:09 PM

dogsoldier on March 28, 2014 at 12:09 PM

YMTSU

MJBrutus on March 28, 2014 at 3:43 PM

I see you have chosen not to articulate exactly what you did mean. Instead you employed another standard tactic of the left, “WHEN THEY HANDYOU YOUR BALLS, ATTACK THEM!!”
your a Liberal reject and failure.
dogsoldier on March 28, 2014 at 12:09 PM

Yep.

bluegill on March 28, 2014 at 3:58 PM

“Our immigration laws must be a benefit to the nation, not to some buls**t notion of social justice.”

Immigration reform IS a social justice issue…for American citizens struggling with double-digit unemployment or non-living service industry wages or who’ve been waitlisted for programs like affordable housing and public higher education while sanctuary laws/DREAM acts give illegals slots.

kd6rxl on March 29, 2014 at 4:04 PM

Comment pages: 1 2