Video: 122 objects discovered in Flight 370 search area

posted at 8:01 am on March 26, 2014 by Ed Morrissey

The declaration that Flight 370 has been lost with no survivors got more supporting evidence overnight. Pictures taken Sunday from a French satellite show 122 objects in the water 2555 kilometers (1588 miles) southwest of Perth in the south Indian Ocean, where investigators now believe the airplane eventually crashed. Malaysia’s government announced the findings in a press conference a short while ago:

Satellite images taken on Sunday show 122 “potential objects” in the search for debris from missing flight MH370, Malaysian investigators said Wednesday.

Analysis of the images, which were supplied by France-based aeronautical firm Airbus Defence, revealed objects in the southern Indian Ocean around 1,588 miles from Perth, Australia – close to where other objects were previously seen.
The objects were between one meter (3 feet) and 23 meters (72 feet) in length and were seen across an area of ocean approximately 154 square miles wide, acting transport minister Hishamuddin Hussein told reporters.

“Some of the objects appeared to be bright, possibly indicating solid materials,” he added.

Even though the search has changed from a rescue to a recovery operation, time still matters. In order to unravel the mystery of Flight 370, investigators need the so-called “black boxes” — the flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorders. They come equipped with beacons to help locate them after crashes, but the beacon batteries are designed to last a month … and the flight has been missing for almost three weeks already:

The search for the wreckage and the plane’s flight data and cockpit voice recorders could take years because the ocean can extend to up to 23,000 feet deep in some parts. It took two years to find the black box from an Air France jet that went down in the Atlantic Ocean on a flight from Rio de Janeiro to Paris in 2009, and searchers knew within days where the crash site was.

There is a race against the clock to find Flight 370′s black boxes, whose battery-powered “pinger” could stop sending signals within two weeks. The batteries are designed to last at least a month.

Today’s focus involves a 30,000-square-mile swath of ocean more than 1,200 miles off the coast of Australia.

The batteries do not have any role in safeguarding the data, so even if the beacon batteries run out, the recorders should still yield their information. But if the investigators and the search teams can’t pinpoint their location soon, they may never be recovered. The Air France crash happened relatively close to shore in an area that was nowhere near as deep as the search area for Malaysia Air 370, and as ABC notes, it still took years to find and retrieve those recorders.

ABC had an update prior to this press conference on weather-related delays that don’t help, either. Also, the airline is now offering the families a $5,000 settlement for each passenger lost. Somehow, I doubt that will be the final figure:


ABC US News | ABC Business News


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Whoopie! More debris. Wonder when someone is going to pick some of it up.

crankyoldlady on March 26, 2014 at 8:07 AM

‘Last joyride’: MH370 pilot was upset over his wife moving out and in ‘no state of mind to be flying’ says long-time friend

The pilot of doomed flight MH370 was distraught over his wife’s decision to move out of their family home and could have taken the plane for a ‘last joyride’ before it crashed into the southern Indian Ocean killing all 239 people on board, says a long-time friend of the pilot.

The friend, also a pilot, said Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah had been left rattled by his family problems, and didn’t appear to be in the right state of mind to be flying. He warned that it was ‘very possible that neither the passengers nor the other crew on-board knew what was happening until it was too late’.

‘He’s one of the finest pilots around and I’m no medical expert, but with all that was happening in his life Zaharie was probably in no state of mind to be flying,’ he told the NZ Herald on the condition of anonymity.

Resist We Much on March 26, 2014 at 8:09 AM

What is CNN going to do when they find the plane? Start showing Julia Childs reruns?

ConstantineXI on March 26, 2014 at 8:10 AM

ton of debris around my house too.
maybe I will actually look at it sometime and prove its not from the missing AC.
now when will someone actually look at this debris they’ve been touting for days?

dmacleo on March 26, 2014 at 8:12 AM

Meanwhile, a Chicago law firm representing the families of passengers aboard MH370 has taken the first step toward a potential multimillion dollar lawsuit against the airline and the aircraft’s manufacturer.

RibbeckLaw Chartered, a law firm that specializes in aviation cases, filed court documents Monday demanding that Malaysia Airlines and Boeing Co. turn over evidence of possible design and manufacturing defects.

They have no idea what happened. But they already have a lawsuit.

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 8:15 AM

Why do we not build black boxes with an ejection and flotation mechanism?

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 8:17 AM

Why do we not build black boxes with an ejection and flotation mechanism?

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 8:17 AM

Um, you’d lose data from the actually crash sequence?

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 8:19 AM

What is CNN going to do when they find the plane? Start showing Julia Childs reruns?

ConstantineXI on March 26, 2014 at 8:10 AM

…what’s FOX going to do?…I quit watching them too!

KOOLAID2 on March 26, 2014 at 8:20 AM

‘He’s one of the finest pilots around and I’m no medical expert, but with all that was happening in his life Zaharie was probably in no state of mind to be flying,’ he told the NZ Herald on the condition of anonymity.

Resist We Much on March 26, 2014 at 8:09 AM

And why after all this time were we not told about this? It would have explained immediately what happened.

crankyoldlady on March 26, 2014 at 8:20 AM

actual …

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 8:21 AM

So……. Even if the debris is from MH370. What caused the plane to go down? Why were the transponders turned off? Why the change in course? Is there a mechanical problem with the Boeing 777? Was it pilot suicide or catastrophic failure? And given the ocean currents and time elapsed, how does this even remotely help find the black boxes?

In other words, the debris is meaningless at this point. There are, IMO, only two certain facts. Malaysian Air has lost the international market they’ve been cultivating. And, the mystery of MH370 will never be resolved with any degree of certainty as to what really brought that jet down.

Happy Nomad on March 26, 2014 at 8:21 AM

They have no idea what happened. But they already have a lawsuit.

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 8:15 AM

What took them so long?

crankyoldlady on March 26, 2014 at 8:21 AM

Why do we not build black boxes with an ejection and flotation mechanism?

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 8:17 AM

Too many variables.

CurtZHP on March 26, 2014 at 8:22 AM

Why do we not build black boxes with an ejection and flotation mechanism?

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 8:17 AM

why not keep them in a building away from the AC so they can be easily found?
at least that way the data would not be corrupted from the ejection.
fdr has to remain with airframe as long as possible to record everything.

dmacleo on March 26, 2014 at 8:22 AM

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 8:19 AM

I was thinking of a system that could eject after impact in water. I know that one could probably not function in all scenarios but it should be more survivable than what we currently have.

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 8:24 AM

Why do we not build black boxes with an ejection and flotation mechanism?

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 8:17 AM

They would become detached from the airplane?

crankyoldlady on March 26, 2014 at 8:24 AM

And why after all this time were we not told about this? It would have explained immediately what happened.

crankyoldlady on March 26, 2014 at 8:20 AM

I think people were happier with the theory that they had simply climbed so high they were stuck in heaven. ;0

That or black holes or terrorists who wanted the plane and were hiding it. IMO, pilot suicide is the most likely explanation. Second most likely is catastrophic failure due to the hazmat in the cargo area.

Happy Nomad on March 26, 2014 at 8:25 AM

‘I call upon the aviation industry to stop hiding behind costs and how much it costs and start ensuring that our pilots and our customers, our flying public, are safe. Why do we have the capacity, uh, to dismantle the transponders? Why wasn’t the emergency call already in place that it automatically signals when a[n] aircraft goes off its, uh, discerned or destinated — uh, destiny and destination – uh, as relates to, uh, its flight pattern. Why does it have to be done manually?’

- Sheila ‘Dora da Explora’ Jackson-Lee

Sheer genius.

Resist We Much on March 26, 2014 at 8:25 AM

They would become detached from the airplane?

crankyoldlady on March 26, 2014 at 8:24 AM

He ain’t a critical thinker.

Murphy9 on March 26, 2014 at 8:27 AM

Why do we not build black boxes with an ejection and flotation mechanism?

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 8:17 AM

These planes do have systems that, in theory, will send a signal when exposed to sea water. Nobody has an explanation as to why they didn’t work.

Happy Nomad on March 26, 2014 at 8:27 AM

Here come the lawsuits. Builder, Airline, Country(ies), Pilot, Guy who drove you to the airport in his Taxi, etc……

Johnnyreb on March 26, 2014 at 8:28 AM

Happy Nomad on March 26, 2014 at 8:27 AM

I know that they emit active sonar pings when submerged. But those only have a range of 10 miles at best, as I understand it. Not nearly sufficient in this case.

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 8:30 AM

They have no idea what happened. But they already have a lawsuit.

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 8:15 AM

Lawyers: Somebody’s gonna pay. It’s our job to figure out who.

bofh on March 26, 2014 at 8:30 AM

Sheer genius.

Resist We Much on March 26, 2014 at 8:25 AM

Why have pilots at all? Just have one of the flight attendants push a button and have automatically destinated flights.

Seriously though, wonder if we’ll ever learn what the FBI was able to glean from the pilot’s computer.

Happy Nomad on March 26, 2014 at 8:30 AM

Seriously though, wonder if we’ll ever learn what the FBI was able to glean from the pilot’s computer.

Happy Nomad on March 26, 2014 at 8:30 AM

That he wasn’t any good at Flight Simulator?

bofh on March 26, 2014 at 8:33 AM

Lawyers: Somebody’s gonna pay. It’s our job to figure out who.

bofh on March 26, 2014 at 8:30 AM

Without the plane?

Sue Boeing- Hey! It wasn’t the aircraft.
Sue Rolls-Royce- Hey! It wasn’t the engines.
Sue Malaysian Air- Hey! It wasn’t the pilots.

In the absence of any physical evidence that MH370 actually existed, who are you gonna sue?

Happy Nomad on March 26, 2014 at 8:34 AM

And why after all this time were we not told about this? It would have explained immediately what happened.

crankyoldlady on March 26, 2014 at 8:20 AM

I actually did read about this within a day or two of the disappearance. But its mundane and doesn’t mean great ratings.

rbj on March 26, 2014 at 8:36 AM

Without the plane?

Sue Boeing- Hey! It wasn’t the aircraft.
Sue Rolls-Royce- Hey! It wasn’t the engines.
Sue Malaysian Air- Hey! It wasn’t the pilots.

In the absence of any physical evidence that MH370 actually existed, who are you gonna sue?

Happy Nomad on March 26, 2014 at 8:34 AM

Hey it was the airline.

crankyoldlady on March 26, 2014 at 8:36 AM

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 8:19 AM

I was thinking of a system that could eject after impact in water. I know that one could probably not function in all scenarios but it should be more survivable than what we currently have.

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 8:24 AM

You would have to have a second device because data as far through the crash sequence as possible, is an imperative. A contemporary cockpit voice recorder and flight data recorder (or combination) already does this.

So maybe an additional one has some small merit, but here are other considerations before you take the added expense. It would have no idea when it needed to eject itself. The pilot would have to initiate it. If the crew is dealing with an impending crash due to an emergency, I think I’d prefer for them to concentrate on following the emergency procedures.

If the pilot knew the impending disaster were caused by him or her, would they even accomplish that task.

I dunno. I’d be more interested in better real time telemetry with the big liner aircraft.

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 8:39 AM

All according to God’s plan. Fear not.

antisense on March 26, 2014 at 8:40 AM

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 8:39 AM

I don’t see what value there would be in data beyond the moment of impact. Nor do I see why ejection and floatation would require human action to trigger. Heck, an accelerometer would do the trick such as are used in a car airbag.

As I see it, data up to the moment of impact that is much more likely to survive is a lot more valuable than a data set that include collection following impact that is unrecoverable.

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 8:44 AM

Hey it was the airline.

crankyoldlady on March 26, 2014 at 8:36 AM

You mean that majority government-owned organization that just went bankrupt? We’ll add you to the list of creditors.

Happy Nomad on March 26, 2014 at 8:45 AM

You mean that majority government-owned organization that just went bankrupt? We’ll add you to the list of creditors.

Happy Nomad on March 26, 2014 at 8:45 AM

I need the money.

crankyoldlady on March 26, 2014 at 8:49 AM

I don’t see what value there would be in data beyond the moment of impact. Nor do I see why ejection and floatation would require human action to trigger. Heck, an accelerometer would do the trick such as are used in a car airbag.

What if the crash was a ditching and didn’t meet the G forces necessary for the activation. The pilot has to do this.

As I see it, data up to the moment of impact that is much more likely to survive is a lot more valuable than a data set that include collection following impact that is unrecoverable.

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 8:44 AM

The data recorder needs to operate as long as possible. Operating through the crash sequence (especially if survivable) could still be recording keys elements of pilot actions. If precious moment are lost on short final on approach because recording devices are ejected, you could lose all fidelity of what occurred.

Takeoffs and Landings sequences are the most critical times to in most any flight. If someone took an interest in data ejection, you would at least need two device. One has to stay on board.

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 8:54 AM

Wonder when someone is going to pick some of it up.

crankyoldlady on March 26, 2014 at 8:07 AM

The location makes BFE look downright cosmopolitan. And the weather usually sucks too.

cozmo on March 26, 2014 at 8:54 AM

They have no idea what happened. But they already have a lawsuit.

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 8:15 AM

Yeah, when I heard that this morning…

The ambulance chasing scumbags want to be first in line with a class action that will make them richer while helping on one else.

cozmo on March 26, 2014 at 8:56 AM

Uh, why would floating debris, from a supposed plane crash that occurred three week ago, still be in the area of the crash, in a violent, turbulent area of the open ocean?

Pork-Chop on March 26, 2014 at 9:00 AM

cozmo on March 26, 2014 at 8:56 AM

Already “demanding” critical information.

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 9:00 AM

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 8:54 AM

My analogy with an airbag was a simplification. We are not conducting a requirements review here, simply throwing out a concept. It should be no problem to meet a large range of scenarios with a programmed set of conditions. For example, the remedy I proposed would only be applicable to impact in water.

As for take off and landing incidents I should think that we should be able to communicate all telemetry wirelessly while in the vicinity of a control tower with no problem these days.

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 9:01 AM

after all this time were we not told about this?

I heard that the wife leaving was “debunked.” Who knows? perhaps now that debunking is debunked. It’s all rumor, either way. I don’t trust that this person was a close friend; many people gravitate to the limelight and make unsubstantiated pronouncements. Time will tell–and lousy reporting will usually get replaced with facts. The problem is that the rumors and lies leave a debris field of their own that conspiricists will feed on for a lifetime.

G. Charles on March 26, 2014 at 9:03 AM

Re: MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 9:01 AM

Would a floatable, GPS-equipped beacon located on the tail that deploys upon impact be a start, especially on these long-haul-over-vast-areas-of-water-type planes? At least the satellite monitors would have a decent search origin point.

Also, could a GPS unit be added inside the black box? I know that, from underwater, it won’t reach the satellite, but it might provide an additional tool to help the searchers locate it as they get closer to it. (I know, another non-engineer here)!! Consider though, how much more quickly a GPS unit on a black box could be found in a land crash site.

Sandcastlevirtues on March 26, 2014 at 9:07 AM

What is CNN going to do when they find the plane? Start showing Julia Childs reruns?

ConstantineXI on March 26, 2014 at 8:10 AM

I find CNN refreshing.

If they do find the plane, CNN will go back to its anti-conservative, anti-GOP, pro-Obama, pro-homosexual agenda.

sentinelrules on March 26, 2014 at 9:11 AM

In the absence of any physical evidence that MH370 actually existed, who are you gonna sue?

Happy Nomad on March 26, 2014 at 8:34 AM

Everybody.

Seriously, under the legal theory of res ipsa loquitur, all the plaintiff has to do is prove that the aircraft never showed up and let all thirty-five defendants figure out who was at fault.

The one obscure defendant not named in the lawsuit will be the one all the other defendants will point to as the culprit. That is why there will be countless defendants.

BigAlSouth on March 26, 2014 at 9:14 AM

My quick theory is the pilot was upset over his wife and family leaving him. He decided to commit suicide with 239 others. He climbed to 45000ft and depressurized the cabin and either set the auto pilot or flew the jet himself to the remotest place in the Pacific Ocean and let run out of fuel

jaywemm on March 26, 2014 at 9:16 AM

regarding the “air bag” thinking, there is some merit to that. I think the black boxes could 1) both be put in parts of the airplane most likely to break off in a crash and be conjoined with enough foam/life-preserver material to float in most circumstances. It won’t work when the whole plane goes down, but it would work better than the current arrangement. Or 2) have a third, “location-finding only” black box that doesn’t record data, but would tend to break away in crashes, float, and perhaps with enough battery to send special short-wave or other signal, etc.

G. Charles on March 26, 2014 at 9:16 AM

My analogy with an airbag was a simplification.

Your example doesn’t matter. You’re talking about thinks that are initialed with G Forces through accelerometers. My helicopter has engine fire fighting that occurs after a metric of G-forces are met. If I don’t impact with sufficient force, it doesn’t initialize. Many examples.

We are not conducting a requirements review here, simply throwing out a concept.

Your condescension “always” comes through. WTH man. I’m not busting on your idea. Why the smart ass response. I’m only throwing out considerations to your notion based on my experiences with aviation.

It should be no problem to meet a large range of scenarios with a programmed set of conditions. For example, the remedy I proposed would only be applicable to impact in water.

What region of the aircraft would you want this ejection to occur?

As for take off and landing incidents I should think that we should be able to communicate all telemetry wirelessly while in the vicinity of a control tower with no problem these days.

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 9:01 AM

Telemetry is what I was thought was a more logical idea. Why doses it only have to be close to a tower?

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 9:18 AM

Sandcastlevirtues on March 26, 2014 at 9:07 AM

GPS uses microwave length signals and so could not be of use if the antenna is submerged. However, other devices such as inertial measurement units (IMU’s) can provide a good enough estimate of position for search and recovery if that information could be communicated to a rescue team. I am certain that the BB already records the best position information available. If not, it bloody well should :-)

As I see, the first and foremost mission of a BB is to aid in search and rescue. The most time critical and important pieces of information are:

1. Where is the aircraft
2. Might anyone have survived

Beyond that, in terms of trade offs, I understand the need for complete data that Hawkdriver is expressing. However data is worthless if it cannot be recovered and therefore I come down strongly on the side of enhancing survivability and recoverability.

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 9:21 AM

thinks = things

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 9:21 AM

Your condescension “always” comes through. WTH man. I’m not busting on your idea. Why the smart ass response. I’m only throwing out considerations to your notion based on my experiences with aviation.

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 9:18 AM

I was not being condescending. Merely pointing out that I am greatly generalizing a concept and not designing a complete solution. Sure an accelerometer is not sufficient by itself but it is well within our abilities to program a set of measurements that could produce appropriate conditions to trigger an ejections.

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 9:23 AM

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 9:01 AM

G. Charles on March 26, 2014 at 9:16 AM

It has been a long process to get the data and cockpit recorders to be as resilient as they are. Nothing on these things is an afterthought.

They are designed to record and survive. That last part is hard enough without adding Buck Rogers bells and whistles.

cozmo on March 26, 2014 at 9:24 AM

cozmo on March 26, 2014 at 9:24 AM

Really? Do you really consider programming an ejection and flotation mechanism to be so futuristic that it is beyond our ability to economically produce and deploy on multi-multi-million dollar commercial aircraft? Good grief, I carry much more sophisticated tech in my pocket.

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 9:32 AM

They have no idea what happened. But they already have a lawsuit.

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 8:15 AM

…wonder when Eric Holder will get involved?

KOOLAID2 on March 26, 2014 at 9:33 AM

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 9:32 AM

Your pocket doesn’t have to operate in and survive fire, flood, extreme cold and 500mph to 0 impacts. And be able to do it every time it is called on.

I tell you what. Build one that can do everything you dream about and the reputable aircraft manufacturers will beat a path to your door. You will be rich.

cozmo on March 26, 2014 at 9:36 AM

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 9:01 AM

G. Charles on March 26, 2014 at 9:16 AM

It has been a long process to get the data and cockpit recorders to be as resilient as they are. Nothing on these things is an afterthought.

They are designed to record and survive. That last part is hard enough without adding Buck Rogers bells and whistles.

cozmo on March 26, 2014 at 9:24 AM

Well said. The task requirements engineered in any aircraft recording devices, makes it a poor candidate for ejection to begin with. I would just say again, real time satellite telemetry is almost there anyway to monitor most aircrafts pertinent flight data. And if someone did invent the “BrutusDevice TM” I would just make sure it is a secondary device and not a primary recorder such as in current aircraft. It should eject down to avoid flight control surfaces. It should only be pilot initiated.

But hey, “BrutusDevice TM” actually sounds pretty cools. And I’m already in for consulting fees based on this original conversation.

FORWARD!!!

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 9:38 AM

cozmo on March 26, 2014 at 9:36 AM

Puh-lease. We’re talking about a compressed gas or explosive ejector and something akin to an airbag for flotation. We have been making ejection seats for fighter aircraft for 50 years. We can certainly deploy a device for black boxes.

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 9:39 AM

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 9:39 AM

Armed bombs in airplanes…Yes dear.

Sometimes, stupid cannot be fixed.

cozmo on March 26, 2014 at 9:41 AM

We have been making ejection seats for fighter aircraft for 50 years.

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 9:39 AM

Hey, lets just have every airline seat be an ejection seat.

cozmo on March 26, 2014 at 9:43 AM

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 9:38 AM

I would agree that continuous telemetry via satellite would be the way to go if a few conditions were met. For example, it should not be possible for a pilot or a bad guy to disable it in flight even with engine and electrical power shut downs. It must also truly be worldwide, including coverage over all bodies of water. I am not sure that our communications nets can meet that condition (they were designed after all to facilitate terrestrial comms).

And yes, I want royalties on the idea :-)

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 9:44 AM

cozmo on March 26, 2014 at 9:36 AM

Puh-lease. We’re talking about a compressed gas or explosive ejector and something akin to an airbag for flotation. We have been making ejection seats for fighter aircraft for 50 years. We can certainly deploy a device for black boxes.

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 9:39 AM

You’re not going to use an explosive device during an aircraft emergency procedure.

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 9:44 AM

cozmo on March 26, 2014 at 9:41 AM

I replied to you because I thought you might have something to contribute. I should have know better.

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 9:44 AM

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 9:44 AM

When it is working well, even my UH60 has a telemetry capability that would meet the needs of data monitoring that we’re talking about. It really is just a matter of what data is reported. Are you at all familiar with Blue Force Tracking BFT. Take a minute and Google it if not.

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 9:48 AM

Hey, lets just have every airline seat be an ejection seat.

cozmo on March 26, 2014 at 9:43 AM

Just don’t install them on jelly choppers!

OldEnglish on March 26, 2014 at 9:48 AM

I replied to you because I thought you might have something to contribute. I should have know better.

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 9:44 AM

I should have known better than to respond to you. I mistakenly thought you didn’t want to remain willfully ignorant.

cozmo on March 26, 2014 at 9:49 AM

fdr also can record emergency equipment deployment after impact. door openings, slide deployment and emergency lighting activation. while not something I suspect this flight would have seen many “crashes” do.
they need to stay with the a/c.
as far as adding a third, well first you would have to make it four as the duel system issue comes into play.
then you would have to make sure all sensors and wiring have the power and connectivity to feed an extra 2 recorders. And that would, in many cases, require rewiring the a/c to make sure there is no signal loss.
you’d need procedures put in place to allow the a/c to fly with one of these extra broken, anything dealing with the data recording is extremely regulated and the documentation for doing any work on the system can run into a ream of paper.
s far as retrofitting existing aircraft you’d need the manufacturer to design a new CDL list (configuration deviation list) and a full set of aircraft weight and balance checks with new moment points would need to be created. THis would require a bunch of service bulletins (SB) and engineering orders (EO)to be drawn up and accomplished.
then for the squib activation to send them flying you got a whole other set of issues including hazmat issues.
squibs are explosive devices and cannot be just placed anywheres nor can they be shipped by anyone. airlines have to get federal exemptions to ship them to their mtx bases, I forget the A code now but anyone with an IATA book can see it and the CFR49 tie in.
if you’ve never dealt with a/c mtx and records you’d be in for a hell of a surprise just to see what is considered a simple change requires.

dmacleo on March 26, 2014 at 9:49 AM

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 9:48 AM

I don’t know about it. TY, will look it up.

Anything that we can do to make flight data more survivable and recoverable is essential, in my book. And no one should have to wait as long as those poor people to learn about what happened to M370. This terrible event highlights that need.

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 9:53 AM

OldEnglish on March 26, 2014 at 9:48 AM

I have no idea what a jelly chopper is, but I’m thinkin’ B-58 style ejection capsules for everybody! With fancy life rafts and champagne in the survival packs.

cozmo on March 26, 2014 at 9:56 AM

dmacleo on March 26, 2014 at 9:49 AM

Awesome considerations. My one question would be why you think the “BrutusDevice TM” would need to be a redundant system. Not many CVR or FDRs have redundant or backup systems do they? Asking. My aircraft doesn’t. And the Black Hawk is nothing if it isn’t the redundant system engineered aircraft from He11.

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 9:57 AM

note my talking of dual systems for the fdr/fdau systems was based on changes I thought were happening around 2010, not positive those rule changes happened or not.

dmacleo on March 26, 2014 at 10:00 AM

. My one question would be why you think the “BrutusDevice TM” would need to be a redundant system. Not many CVR or FDRs have redundant or backup systems do they? Asking. My aircraft doesn’t. And the Black Hawk is nothing if it isn’t the redundant system engineered aircraft from He11.

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 9:57 AM

ah I see you caught that, were changes supposed to be happening for anything built after 2010 affecting part 121 and 135 carriers that seemed to me (on quick readings back in 08) to drive towards duel systems for them.
I cannot see if this actually happened yet though.

dmacleo on March 26, 2014 at 10:01 AM

cozmo on March 26, 2014 at 9:56 AM

Sorry, I blame the great grand-kids. Helicopters. :)

OldEnglish on March 26, 2014 at 10:02 AM

They has a piece on the news the other night. The
“floating black boxes” ejected from the aircraft already exist. The airlines have fought their implementation because they cost more.

The “real time telemetry” has been fought tooth and nail by the Pilot’s Union which says the data is worthless for the bulk of flights (true) and would be used to harass pilots on performance issues (not sure if they mean jet fuel used, flight decisions or Viagra purchases).

PolAgnostic on March 26, 2014 at 10:08 AM

2nd try with a specific E.D. product NOT mentioned to see if that’s the hold up.
****************************************************************

They has a piece on the news the other night. The
“floating black boxes” ejected from the aircraft already exist. The airlines have fought their implementation because they cost more.

The “real time telemetry” has been fought tooth and nail by the Pilot’s Union which says the data is worthless for the bulk of flights (true) and would be used to harass pilots on performance issues (not sure if they mean jet fuel used, flight decisions or E.D. purchases).

PolAgnostic on March 26, 2014 at 10:11 AM

PolAgnostic on March 26, 2014 at 10:08 AM

Well I have it on the authority of cozmo that such Buck Rogers tech is stupid. So there’s that.

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 10:14 AM

‘Toons of the Day: 2 Years, 9 Months, 25 Days To Go…

Resist We Much on March 26, 2014 at 10:12 AM

28 days, 6 hours ,42 minutes and 12 seconds until the world ends.

Murphy9 on March 26, 2014 at 10:16 AM

Murphy9 on March 26, 2014 at 10:16 AM

What – again!?

OldEnglish on March 26, 2014 at 10:19 AM

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 10:14 AM

Sigh, keep diggin’ that hole sweetie.

Some of y’all act like the data and voice recorders are the holy grail that will answer all questions. They ain’t.

They are tools for investigators and aircraft designers. Even if black boxes had been around form the beginning, they wouldn’t have told investigators that square corners doomed the Comet. Though there is a pretty good chance that the recorders will help solve the mystery of MH370, they might not.

There are trade offs in everything that flies. The bean counters would want the space and weight taken by data recorders to better be used to generate income. passengers would prefer more leg room or more safety features, even though most of them don’t know what that would be.

Why do y’all want all these resources used on better flight recorders? If y’all are so concerned about the welfare of them, don’t let them fly.

cozmo on March 26, 2014 at 10:25 AM

cozmo on March 26, 2014 at 10:25 AM

You funny!

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 10:28 AM

Really? Do you really consider programming an ejection and flotation mechanism to be so futuristic that it is beyond our ability to economically produce and deploy on multi-multi-million dollar commercial aircraft? Good grief, I carry much more sophisticated tech in my pocket.

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 9:32 AM

In theory, a great idea. Is it practical? Maybe, maybe not. Not if the aft section sustains damage severe enough to prevent ejection? Maybe make the pinger stronger and the battery life longer.

RandallinHerndon on March 26, 2014 at 10:32 AM

Well I have it on the authority of cozmo that such Buck Rogers tech is stupid. So there’s that.

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 10:14 AM

.
Reading Is Fundamental – what I took away from his comments were specific comments on the importance of having flight data up till the last possible split second and observations on someone who has thousands of hours of actual flight time = more informed commentary.

YMMV

I’m am still sticking with my original theory – which would be suppoted in the instance where the find the black boxes and they show there was NO problem with the plane. Even the cockpit voice recorder could be blank if my recollection of it only having the last two hours of flight time recorded (it’s on a re-use loop).

PolAgnostic on March 26, 2014 at 10:32 AM

My quick theory is the pilot was upset over his wife and family leaving him. He decided to commit suicide with 239 others. He climbed to 45000ft and depressurized the cabin and either set the auto pilot or flew the jet himself to the remotest place in the Pacific Ocean and let run out of fuel

jaywemm on March 26, 2014 at 9:16 AM

WTF…call the Malaysian government and tell them thet are looking in the wrong ocean! You must have got some pings no one else picked up???

txdoc on March 26, 2014 at 10:32 AM

In other words, the debris is meaningless at this point.

Happy Nomad on March 26, 2014 at 8:21 AM

Absolutly right. This is the strongest lead yet, IMO, and it looks like the aircraft may have taken a more southwest route that the almost due south route they had previously speculated. For the sake of the families, I hope these debris fields are from the plane.

RandallinHerndon on March 26, 2014 at 10:35 AM

…wonder when Eric Holder will get involved?

KOOLAID2 on March 26, 2014 at 9:33 AM

If George Zimmerman Ben Ghazi has ever flown on a 777, I am sure Boeing will be sued for racism. Anything to give this regime a chance to punish Boeing. Crazy world we live in.

RandallinHerndon on March 26, 2014 at 10:39 AM

I haven’t the faintest idea what most of you are talking about because you all have some expertise in this subject but it’s neat that you have a place to bounce ideas off each other. Who knows. You might come up with something useful. It isn’t useful to call each other stupid, however.

crankyoldlady on March 26, 2014 at 10:40 AM

If the recorders are recovered, would anyone here trust the Indonesians to reveal their complete information?

slickwillie2001 on March 26, 2014 at 10:42 AM

PolAgnostic on March 26, 2014 at 10:32 AM

In this day and age, there is no excuse for commercial airliners to drop off the grid for weeks at a time. I am sorry, but that is inexcusable and we as consumers should not put up with it.

Whether or not the tech solution I threw out as an example is viable is unimportant. The fact is that it is well within our means to ensure that incidents like this never occur in the future. The top priority, as I stated, for a flight recording system is to be recoverable and aid in search and rescue. Diagnostics are important but must take a back seat to aiding in saving human life or locating the site as soon as possible.

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 10:43 AM

If the recorders are recovered, would anyone here trust the Indonesians to reveal their complete information?

slickwillie2001 on March 26, 2014 at 10:42 AM

I would expect a repeat of EgyptAir 990, where all the data clearly showed the Relief First Officer intentionally flew the plane into the ocean, while the Egyptian government claimed mechanical issues. In this case, it is looking more and more like an unhinged Harry Reid Captain

RandallinHerndon on March 26, 2014 at 10:49 AM

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 9:48 AM

I don’t know about it. TY, will look it up.

Anything that we can do to make flight data more survivable and recoverable is essential, in my book. And no one should have to wait as long as those poor people to learn about what happened to M370. This terrible event highlights that need.

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 9:53 AM

(sorry for the response lag, 28 year old “kid” emergency)

For the last three deployments in OIF and OEF my aircraft was an icon on a screen in the TOC/Operations or another friendly element’s screen. The Battle Captain saw wherever I went. I also had resolution on other elements in my cockpit either on a kneeboard device or on a Multi-Function display as an aircraft component itself. We could message and it was extremely reliable. Now, when I see a fellow Blue Force Icon in the Mike Model, I know his altitude, speed and direction. My aircraft is already recording pertinent data to download for maintenance that occurs every flight. That could easily be transmitted. Anywho, probably not necessary for our applications, but the telemetry technology is there already. It would be cool too see it applied to the large commercial aviation aircraft. The only problem I would see is satellite usage and subscription.

Anyone want to hazard a guess who some of the biggest opponents of increased aircraft monitoring are though?

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 10:52 AM

I haven’t the faintest idea what most of you are talking about because you all have some expertise in this subject but it’s neat that you have a place to bounce ideas off each other. Who knows. You might come up with something useful. It isn’t useful to call each other stupid, however.

crankyoldlady on March 26, 2014 at 10:40 AM

Nice try COL. That comment doesn’t rate a consult royalty like some of the rest of us are expecting.

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 10:56 AM

Anyone want to hazard a guess who some of the biggest opponents of increased aircraft monitoring are though?

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 10:52 AM

Pilots and airlines.

cozmo on March 26, 2014 at 10:57 AM

Anyone want to hazard a guess who some of the biggest opponents of increased aircraft monitoring are though?

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 10:52 AM

.
Do I get bonus points for already having answered that question upthread?

PolAgnostic on March 26, 2014 at 10:08 AM

PolAgnostic on March 26, 2014 at 10:59 AM

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 10:56 AM

She is just using her special dispensation on being able to speculate unchallenged to rub the rest of our noses in it.

cozmo on March 26, 2014 at 10:59 AM

crankyoldlady on March 26, 2014 at 10:40 AM

You’re right that there are clearly some experts on the subject here. I am certainly not one of them, but it is very good to hear what hawkdriver and dmacleo have to say.

MJBrutus on March 26, 2014 at 11:00 AM

Track the pilot’s wife.

Whatever the rumors, if she is going to meet him somewhere after his big payoff for hijacking the airplane, that is where to start. I’m guessing the debris field is from some boater who thought his boat was big enough or he was man enough to sail that part of the ocean.

I think MH370 is sitting on a makeshift runway somewhere, but, alas with dead passengers. It was stolen to get some special cargo out of Indonesia.

KenInIL on March 26, 2014 at 11:17 AM

Pilots and airlines.

cozmo on March 26, 2014 at 10:57 AM

Bingo

Do I get bonus points for already having answered that question upthread?

PolAgnostic on March 26, 2014 at 10:59 AM

Yep. And I lose cool points for not reading back to see if it was mentioned already.

Even my fellow Army Aviators. “Hawk (not my real name) they’re going to use the CVR to check up on us, not fair!”

One, it’s not accessed without an appropriate incident to evaluate. And B, what are you saying in the cockpit you don’t want anyone to know about?

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 11:18 AM

She is just using her special dispensation on being able to speculate unchallenged to rub the rest of our noses in it.

cozmo on March 26, 2014 at 10:59 AM

I think it’s the money.

(COL, you know I’m kidding.)

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 11:19 AM

Forget about the black box for a second…I still find it ridiculous that a pilot could manually turn off all tracking of the airplane? What’s the point of that?!?

They have no idea what happened. But they already have a lawsuit.

hawkdriver on March 26, 2014 at 8:15 AM

Of course! It’s someone’s fault somewhere (if they have deep pockets that is).

nextgen_repub on March 26, 2014 at 11:23 AM

What ever happened to the debris that the Chinese saw on satellite images south of Vietnam, or the debris that was seen in a different area last week, etc.. etc… If you look long, and hard enough you’re going to find debris in the ocean… and none of that debris is from crashed airliners. They ought to be looking in the Pacific … lots of debris there! … oh and before anybody says what about the pings… The airliner could be anywhere on a 7,000 mile arc (not just at the end of it).

RedManBlueState on March 26, 2014 at 11:35 AM

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