Romney: I hate to say I told you so, but …

posted at 10:41 am on March 18, 2014 by Ed Morrissey

… actually, Mitt Romney doesn’tnot explicitly anyway. However, the context of this op-ed from Barack Obama’s 2012 opponent could not be clearer. After Obama and Democrats ridiculed his worldview in that campaign, calling it a relic of the 1980s, Romney warns that what America and the West need now is leadership that anticipates events and sees the world realistically so as to seize opportunities when they arise:

Why, across the world, are America’s hands so tied?

A large part of the answer is our leader’s terrible timing. In virtually every foreign-affairs crisis we have faced these past five years, there was a point when America had good choices and good options. There was a juncture when America had the potential to influence events. But we failed to act at the propitious point; that moment having passed, we were left without acceptable options. In foreign affairs as in life, there is, as Shakespeare had it, “a tide in the affairs of men which, taken at the flood leads on to fortune. Omitted, all the voyage of their life is bound in shallows and in miseries.”

When protests in Ukraine grew and violence ensued, it was surely evident to people in the intelligence community—and to the White House—that President Putin might try to take advantage of the situation to capture Crimea, or more. That was the time to talk with our global allies about punishments and sanctions, to secure their solidarity, and to communicate these to the Russian president. These steps, plus assurances that we would not exclude Russia from its base in Sevastopol or threaten its influence in Kiev, might have dissuaded him from invasion. …

Able leaders anticipate events, prepare for them, and act in time to shape them. My career in business and politics has exposed me to scores of people in leadership positions, only a few of whom actually have these qualities. Some simply cannot envision the future and are thus unpleasantly surprised when it arrives. Some simply hope for the best. Others succumb to analysis paralysis, weighing trends and forecasts and choices beyond the time of opportunity.

The difference is between seeing the world as it is, and living in a “fantasy,” as the Washington Post remarked about Obama’s five years in charge of foreign policy. No comment in this regard was as telling as John Kerry’s absurd riposte about Vladimir Putin acting like a “19th-century” leader rather than one in the 21st century. The only difference until now between the two was a powerful Western military presence, mainly Anglospheric, that imposed a Pax Americana on the world after causing the Soviet Union to collapse. Obama, Hillary Clinton, and Kerry set about dismantling that Pax Americana and now are shocked, shocked to see world leaders acting like they’ve always acted since long before the rise of nation-states.

In my column today at The Week, I argue that the sanctions applied by Obama against Putin still suffer from this fantasy, although his allies are probably not allowing him to go much further anyway:

The statement and sanctions send a clear signal to Russia, but not necessarily a daunting message. While Obama clearly preferred to allow Putin a path to retreat, it was equally clear two weeks ago that Putin didn’t want to retreat. The announcement of the referendum should have prompted these expanded measures immediately, rather than Obama waiting for the fraudulent vote to be taken before imposing penalties for the attempt to legitimize the occupation.

But it’s not just the timing. The target and teeth of these sanctions leave something to be desired, too. Russia essentially invaded Ukraine, and yet still seems to be a member of the G-8. “I think Vladimir Putin must be encouraged by the absolute timidity” of the sanctions, Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) told NBC’s Andrea Mitchell.

That timidity may have more to do with Europe than with the Obama administration, however. The EU trades heavily with Russia and is particularly dependent on natural gas imports from Gazprom. They may be willing to talk tough and impose some personal sanctions in coordination with the U.S., but so far seem unwilling to go much farther. France appears set to go forward with the $1.7 billion sale of two helicopter carriers to Russia, John Fund reported for National Review on Monday. One ship, the Vladivostok, has already completed its sea trials and is ready for delivery, while the second — ironically named Sebastopol after Russia’s Crimean naval base — will be ready by the end of next year. …

Now, Putin is neither Adolf Hitler nor Joseph Stalin. He isn’t doing this out of ideological extremity, or to try and take over the world. Instead, he wants the Russian empire back for its own sake, and to make those republics subject to Moscow once more. That has been obvious since Putin invaded Georgia and “liberated” South Ossetia and Abkhazia in 2008, and then recognized their independence on the same basis that Western nations recognized Kosovo’s similar declaration a few months earlier. It’s no accident that Putin explicitly cited Kosovo to legitimize the Crimean referendum this weekend. Putin plans to use the Western pretexts of self-determination and ethnic identity to reassemble Greater Russia.

The West may have finally awoken to this threat. They still act like they’re sleepwalking, two to three weeks behind developments and under the impression that Putin shares the same concept of 21st-century leadership as they do. Until Putin’s policies produce Western responses that cause widespread economic pain in Russia, the former Soviet republics in Asia and Europe have plenty to fear, and little reason to trust Western strength for their long-term security.

If you want a taste of that sleepwalking abroad, look no further than France. Despite the annexation of Crimea, they’re still not sure whether to complete the sale for those warships:

The E.U. sanctions list targets members of the parliament and mid-level government officials. But the E.U. ambassador to Russia, Vygaudas Usackas, told the Interfax news agency that the sanctions list could soon be expanded. France announced that it may halt the $1.8 billion sale of two Mistral class warships to Russia, the foreign minister, Laurent Fabius, told France’s TF1 television channel.

The ships were due to be delivered in 2015, to become part of Russia’s Black Sea fleet, based in Crimea.

“If Putin carries on like this, we could consider canceling these sales,” Fabius said.

Maybe they’ll cancel it if the Russian navy shows up in Marseilles, eh? It’s difficult to put all of the blame on Obama for weak Western sanctions when France is still considering whether to sell Putin the noose he’d put around their necks. Still, this is why times like these call for leaders with a clear view of the world and the ability to out-think their opponents. So far, we’re seeing very little evidence of this in the West.


Related Posts:

Breaking on Hot Air

Blowback

Note from Hot Air management: This section is for comments from Hot Air's community of registered readers. Please don't assume that Hot Air management agrees with or otherwise endorses any particular comment just because we let it stand. A reminder: Anyone who fails to comply with our terms of use may lose their posting privilege.

Trackbacks/Pings

Trackback URL

Comments

Comment pages: 1 7 8 9

Go look up Irony. You are the idiot who is defending not voting, which empowers the left.

You still have no concept of what the argument is even about. You truly are one of the dumbest commenters I’ve encountered online. Which is quite a feat.

You keep doing the same thing over, and over, and over – voting “r” and expect a different result each time.

Good luck with that. It’s called being a useful idiot – the left has always used them and continues to, in the form of you.

Monkeytoe on March 20, 2014 at 1:21 PM

northdallasthirty

When it’s pointed out how ineffective and useless their Mitchy-poo and Limp Boehner are and that imbeciles Pelosi and Reid got way more done when they were in the minority, they scream this:

What did they get “done” except Obama care which was a party line vote and spending a ton of money?

The damage he has done to this country will take generations to repair, if ever. Thanks for Obama s#ithead.

Look at the debt.

So which is it? Are they hopelessly ineffective or are they destroying the country?

Yes.

And if they’re destroying the country, why are Mitchy-poo, John Boy McCain, Limp Boehner and Mittens Romney targeting and attacking conservatives instead of Obama Party members?

Conservatives aren’t such drama queens. Did someone hurt your feelings?

Barking on command for John Boy McCain, who all these RINOs claimed they oppose and who they insist doesn’t do anything right — except when they have to defend him, as they always do.

You have a habit of attributing things to other people that thy haven’t done or said and making categorical, over the top proclamations that are just nonsense. It’s fundamentally dishonest, yet I think you actually believe your own BS.

John Boy McCain who owns you…

Pretty persuasive.

So you’re pretty much exposed at this point, V7_Sport.

How are you going to top this display? You need to employ caps lock and extra exclamation points to add to the whole presentation.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 1:25 PM

What’s the matter? You were so confident before. Or was that just a typical lie you abusive types tell to smear other people, like your boy Longing4Lincoln screaming that anyone who didn’t vote for Romney is an anti-Mormon bigot?

northdallasthirty on March 20, 2014 at 8:57 AM

I did and said nothing of the sort. As I’ve noted before, you have mastered the linking function of this site, but have a long way to go on reading comprehension.

You are a liar and a fool. Eager to attack those who don’t agree with your purity tests as though we are the enemy. It is you, and not I, who are destroying the conservative brand.

Longing4Lincoln on March 20, 2014 at 1:26 PM

Good luck with that. It’s called being a useful idiot – the left has always used them and continues to, in the form of you.

Monkeytoe on March 20, 2014 at 1:21 PM

And what is a person who doesn’t vote in protest, thereby not combating a “D” vote, if not a useful idiot?

Longing4Lincoln on March 20, 2014 at 1:28 PM

V7_Sport on March 19, 2014 at 9:59 PM

You destroyed astonerii so thoroughly with that post, I’m pretty sure the rules of the internet say he has to move back into his mother’s basement.

Longing4Lincoln on March 20, 2014 at 1:29 PM

Re. monkeyboy

You still have no concept of what the argument is even about. You truly are one of the dumbest commenters I’ve encountered online. Which is quite a feat.

Gee, I was hoping to get the approval of someone who sides with people who advocate voting for Obama out of conservative principles or staying at home on election day in order to gain influence over the political process by losing. That’s smart, huh Fredo…

You keep doing the same thing over, and over, and over – voting “r” and expect a different result each time.

Yeah, not voting to gain political influence isn’t something I need too “try” to know it’s stupid. Like a square wheel or a pay toilet in a diarrhea ward. It’s dumb at first glance. Most people get that, monkey boy.

Good luck with that. It’s called being a useful idiot

No one ever called you useful.. However when the riught doesn’t vote it empowers the left, it’s just common sense.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 1:31 PM

You destroyed astonerii so thoroughly with that post, I’m pretty sure the rules of the internet say he has to move back into his mother’s basement.

Longing4Lincoln on March 20, 2014 at 1:29 PM

“Back”? It would make a world of sense if he were actually chilling downstairs at mom and dads, getting fat off hot pockets and playing x-box.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 1:34 PM

I had a different user name, wonder about it. :-D

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 1:14 PM

I do not believe you, I doubt anyone else does either.

astonerii on March 20, 2014 at 1:35 PM

Re: Golden Shower sport:

Again, you are dishonest to the core. I never said I wasn’t voting. I said i wasn’t voting for the GOP.

I never encouraged anyone to vote for Obama.

So, again I ask, as I ask all lefties, why do you have to lie? If your argument had any merit, you would not feel the need to always lie.

Ask yourself why you always lie.

Why do you lie about serving in the military?

Why do you lie about my positions?

Why do you lie about what the GOP has actually done in the last 30 years?

Why do you lie about how long you have posted at Hotair?

Why is every other thing you write a lie?

Again, you are too dumb to understand even simple concepts, so we’ll keep the discussion just to why you are so completely dishonest.

Monkeytoe on March 20, 2014 at 1:36 PM

He wasn’t “Exonerated” read the link. He would have had that trotted out in prime time.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 12:58 PM

Not guilty is exonerated. If he was guilty do you think the Clinton IRS would have cleared him? No?

Newt Gingrich was doing the job you claim to be doing. He was out in the trenches actually making the party popular and in large part was the reason we won the first house Majority in generations. He moved the government to the right. Under President Bill Clinton (D).

Funny how much you hate him. Enough to keep slandering him with charges that were shown to be without merit.

astonerii on March 20, 2014 at 1:44 PM

I do not believe you, I doubt anyone else does either.

astonerii on March 20, 2014 at 1:35 PM

Oh well, back at you. What we have on my side is a history of advocating for what I think is best for the USA, it’s unwavering and completely consistent. What we have on your side is:

There were at least three other times we had smaller discussions. Maybe you should get a notepad and write this down. If the Republican nominee is Romney, then astonerii and his extended family will be voting for Obama.
astonerii on February 6, 2012 at 11:54 AM

The point of voting Obama is to try to prevent Romney from ruining the brand name. Like Bush did….
astonerii on February 2, 2012 at 7:38 PM

I vote Obama if the only other choice on the ballot is Romney. Nothing says end of a party like having that parties president preside over the end of the country.
astonerii on October 9, 2011 at 8:46 PM

That is why Romney is absolutely unacceptable to me as a Republican president and why I will work against his election if he is the nominee.
astonerii on March 24, 2012 at 3:37 PM

Me, I will convince my 28 member extended family to vote Obama and let the Democrats take the responsibility for the next four years.
You can b!tch and moan all you want about how unfair it is….
astonerii on January 27, 2012 at 6:09 PM

I will never in my life vote for Willard Mitt Romney. I will vote in this election.
astonerii on March 21, 2012 at 11:10 PM

I will vote. It will not be for Willard Mitt Romney. If you cannot live with another 4 years of Obama, pity to you for being such a pathetically weak person.
astonerii on March 21, 2012 at 11:22 PM

I will actively vote against Romney, I will vote for the conservative in the Senate and House. […] I will not go third party, I will go for the throat and vote direct for Obama. Parties do not learn lessons, but the electorate does!
Romney’s record speaks plainly, he is a progressive, pure and simple.
[...] Vote for Obama, vote for the conservative for congress. Got it.
astonerii on February 1, 2012 at 11:26 AM

I would vote Obama just to shut people like you up.
astonerii on November 29, 2011 at 8:20 PM

I see Romney as a bigger long term threat to the nation than Obama.
astonerii on April 5, 2012 at 7:09 PM

I will vote Obama if there is not a solid true conservative with enough backbone to reverse the direction of the nation.
astonerii on April 18, 2011 at 12:29 PM

I vote Obama if Romney is on the ticket. I will not go so far as to send a donation or put a sticker on my bumper, I never put stickers on my bumper, but I will vote.
astonerii on July 17, 2011 at 5:42 PM

I can vote for Obama. This gives the most value. I am young enough to fight in a civil war today and a decade or so more, thus if I vote Obama, and he can bring the collapse of the American dollar and our economy faster than the R, my vote for him gives me value.
[...]
According to my chart, voting Obama if the primary voters decide to pick a progressive is my next best option.
astonerii on June 17, 2011 at 8:47 PM

On and on and on… You are sooooo credible at this point.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 1:45 PM

And what is a person who doesn’t vote in protest, thereby not combating a “D” vote, if not a useful idiot?

Longing4Lincoln on March 20, 2014 at 1:28 PM

This belief that I owe by vote to the GOP is simply stupid.

that is why both you and V-7 seem so intellectually challenged, instead of arguing some facts or analysis explaining reasons to persuade me to vote for the GOP, you piss and whine that I am somehow not “doing my duty” by voting for the GOP – as if I am required to vote GOP.

I am not.

the second inane party of your assumption is that voting GOP accomplishes anything good for America. It does not. I have pointed out, over and over, that the GOP does the following, without fail:

1. Increase spending
2. Increase the size and scope of gov’t
3. Increase the regulatory burden
4. add new entitlements
5. push amnesty
6. (Hasn’t done yet, but has stated pretty clearly it will) “fix”, not repeal” obmamacare and therefore imbue obamacare with bipartisan ownership and support.

So, you are starting with 2 inane and proven wrong assumtions:

1 – I owe my vote to the GOP; and
2 – the GOP is somehow good for America.

Both of those assumptions are verifiably false.

Like you, I too used to labor under the belief that we “had” to vote GOP no matter what. But, facts disabused me of that notion. Now I realize that unless conservative join together and demonstrate our voting power by NOT voting for the GOP, the GOP will never change.

Which means, that as long as useful idiots continue to vote GOP no matter what the GOP does, the GOP will continue to act it always has.

to you, this may be an OK outcome. To people who believe in conservatism, it is not.

I will admit that I have done a lot of name-calling on this thread. I do so just because I find it amusing, because having dealt with V-7 in the past, I know all he does is call everyone who disagrees with him unpatriotic, stupid, lazy, etc. He never argues any facts or discusses anything reasonably,. So, just for fun, I jumped on and did the same to him, seeing how far I can make his head explode. I know he is a lost cause as to reason, so am just having fun.

Having said that, if you are simply trying to have a reasonable argument about tactics of withholding support for the GOP versus simply blindingly voting GOP no matter what – I’ll have that debate with you.

But, if you’re only argument is “if you don’t vote ‘r’ the dems will win”, than it is not worth having the debate. Because that is not an argument. It’s the old “you have to vote GOP because the dems are worse” argument, which is a logical fallacy. If we are going to get essentially the same outcome either way (increased debt, increased gov’t) then it doesn’t really matter very much which group wins the election.

I am arguing over tactics to try and change the GOP. I haven’t been clear in this thread, but V-7 knows what I am talking about – although because he is dishonest will never admit it – because I spelled it out to him many times in previous threads on the same argument. Of course, his side of the debate was always “unpatriotic, lazy, traitor, etc.” which is why I have done what I did here.

.

Monkeytoe on March 20, 2014 at 1:48 PM

“[In 1999, the] IRS concluded the course simply was not political….[T]he IRS wrote, ‘…the content of the “Renewing American Civilization” course was educational…and not biased toward any of those who were supposed to be benefited.’

“The bottom line: Gingrich acted properly and violated no laws….

astonerii on March 20, 2014 at 1:50 PM

Re.monkeyboy

Again, you are dishonest to the core. I never said I wasn’t voting. I said i wasn’t voting for the GOP.

Vote for the dems then.. nut.

I never encouraged anyone to vote for Obama.

You just waded in on behalf of those who have and are encouraging people to stay at home and “let it burn”. It’s not a patriotic option to not vote and its not a conservative one to “let it burn” or vote for Barack Obama. Idiot.

So, again I ask, as I ask all lefties, why do you have to lie? If your argument had any merit, you would not feel the need to always lie.

I haven’t lied.

Ask yourself why you always lie.

Pretty crazy.

Why is every other thing you write a lie?

The mark of a failed and completely incoherent argument: Calling everything you don’t want to hear a lie.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 1:56 PM

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 1:56 PM

Considering the fact that you purely support only people who want to destroy the nation with your votes, I would not be trumpeting your horn so awesomely.

I sure hope you blame me for Romney’s loss in the General election, it means that I am a far better leader than you are.

astonerii on March 20, 2014 at 1:59 PM

“The bottom line: Gingrich acted properly and violated no laws….
astonerii on March 20, 2014 at 1:50 PM

Which is why he admitted making misleading statements and paid $300,000. Even still, you said you would no longer support him. That makes the GOP 100% RINOs in your eyes and the only person you have actively supported here is Barack Obama.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 1:59 PM

Monkeytoe on March 20, 2014 at 1:48 PM

Thank you for your reasoned response. I appreciate the time you took to write it. I usually skip over wall-of-text posts because I’m too ADD to read them, but I did read yours. I get where you’re coming from, I really do.

What steps beyond withholding your vote are you taking to effect change within the GOP? Because if all you are doing is withholding your vote, then how does the GOP know: A) that you’re protesting; or, B) why you’re protesting.

I’ve said before that history may prove me wrong. Maybe this IS the time to make a transition to a new party a la Whig-to-Republican. I don’t personally believe we’re there yet.

My argument is simply a pragmatic one for now. I know that if I don’t vote for the “R” candidate, I’m giving a free vote to Obama. It was difficult for me to vote “R” in 2008, but the alternative of an Obama Presidency was enough to compel me to hold my nose and cancel out an Obama vote.

So long as your protest vote (or lack thereof) is combined with real, concrete efforts to change the GOP, I have no problem with it. I disagree with it for now, but I understand what you’re doing.

If, however, you’re going full-on Vote-for-Obama to punish the GOP, I can NEVER get behind that crap.

Longing4Lincoln on March 20, 2014 at 2:02 PM

Longing4Lincoln:

this is what I previously wrote on this topic (it is very long):

I think we, as conservatives, need to sit out the next election.

The GOP believes two things:

1) conservatives will always vote for them regardless of what they do; and

2) even if #1 isn’t correct, they can win without conservatives.

Both of those notions must be disabused before the GOP will move right.

And, if the GOP doesn’t move right – then the GOP must be terminated.

I urge everyone who considers themselves a conservative to sit out the next election.

Yes, I know, we “have a good chance to win the Senate”. So what? What, exactly, do you believe that will get us?

I’m not offering “sit an election out” lightly. I’m offering it because it is the only way we will move the GOP right quickly enough to do any good (and I’m not talking about moving them to be as conservative as I am, I’m talking reasonably conservative here – which they currently are not).

Energy spent being loyal team players and electing who our betters tell us to has accomplished exactly what conservative goal?

When the GOP held the WH, Senate and House – did they reduce spending? No, they increased it. Did they reduce the size or scope of gov’t? No, they increased it. Did they get rid of any stupid federal agencies, programs, or statutes? No, they added to them.

And, since then, what has the GOP actually done? Capitulate. Say they will capitulate (McConnell just last week stated he did not intend to repeal Obamacare – only “fix” it). Say they will do really, really stupid things (amnesty). As to the debt-ceiling “compromise” away any potential for cutting spending or fixing entitlements (what did conservatives get out of that “compromise”).

The GOP (candidates/aides/consultants/party employees/fundraisers/big-money donors) wants to be a Center-left party, just to the right of the DNC. Actions count – not words. In elections, they tell us they are conservative. But they never act that way in office.

I challenge everyone to explain the conservative “victories” blind loyalty to the GOP has produced. Pointing to some nominees not getting through does not suffice. Because one liberal nominee is stopped, doesn’t mean another liberal nominee – not as vocal – is not confirmed. These are illusory victories, with little meaning. They feel good but accomplish nothing.

Yes, if in control, the GOP will be slightly less liberal than the DNC. That is not the same thing, even remotely, as furthering any conservative goals. It is the opposite.

I am arguing to change the entire GOP’s thinking. Those who argue we shouldn’t sit out, but instead support a “conservative” challenger in a primary or support a “conservative” candidate in the general election are talking about making insignificant changes – rearranging deck chairs.

The GOP establishment (by which I mean incumbents, their staffs, the people working for the GOP, professional campaign people, and big money donors) easily works around the few true conservatives in its midst. Adding a few more here or there won’t change anything. We would have to replace at least 51% of GOP incumbents to change the GOP’s behavior. That is simply not possible. If we change 2 or 3 an election cycle, by the time we get near the 51% mark, the first 1/2 we put worked to elect will have been co-opted by the establishment, making us start all over. Incumbency is powerful, making challenges hard to begin with. Add to that most decent candidates don’t want to piss the party off – so don’t want to challenge, leaving us with a limited pool of potential challengers. Then add the power and organization of the GOP against independent challengers in multiple states, and we can never effect the change we need.

We thought challenging incumbents would change other GOP incumbent behavior. It didn’t. We’ve been working on changing the GOP for over 30 years. Where has it gotten us? Here. Exactly here. Everything wrong with the U.S. – the GOP had a hand in. Everything except Obamacare. Remember that.

The problem is that the party controls things.

As voting for a conservative democrat is counterproductive – because in reality that allegedly conservative democrat merely allows the liberal democrats to run things and push its agenda, voting for a “conservative” GOP candidate (and they all CLAIM to be conservative at election time) is counterproductive because it allows the GOP – which is not at all conservative – run the show.

So, we vote for a “conservative” GOP candidate. Someone who promises to be anti-amnesty, for cutting spending, for cutting the size and scope of gov’t, etc.

And let’s assume they stick to those guns and vote that way (very rare). But, they help the GOP form a majority. The GOP leadership than pushes a budget that increases spending, increases the size and scope of gov’t, and pushes amnesty and instead of repeal of Obamacare – pushes a “fix” of Obamacare.

And all of those things pass with majority republican votes.

What has your vote for a “conservative” GOP candidate accomplished?

And, even if we had, say, 40% of the incumbent GOP as true conservatives, the remainder would work with democrats to pass stuff – as they already do. For instance, this Ryan compromise will likely pass with more D votes than R votes – (so that R’s can go back and claim to be against it to their constituents and in primaries). That is the kind of party shenanigans I am talking about.

The reality is, the primary system doesn’t work. A) incumbency has too much power, b) the ones who win get co-opted 90% of the time by the establishment and c) for the most party, the establishment ignores, works around conservatives. Why do you think Mitch McConell and Jim DeMint hate each so much? Why do you think the GOP establishment people hate Cruz and call him names publicly? Why do you think Mitch McConnell and Boehner are publicly calling for the defeat of conservatives.

We have made some progress. . But it is very slow progress and we won’t shift the GOP right for over 50 years at this rate. In that 50 years, we will see the collapse of SS, collapse of various state and local pension systems, exploding debt, exploding Medicare, and Obamacare costs. And the GOP will do nothing about it – instead we will get the same B.S. we have received til now – more spending, more gimmicks, more entitlements and more gov’t.

Yes, in 75 years, if we work hard at it and challenge GOP incumbents here and there, etc., we will move the GOP right. But in 75 years it’ll probably be too late to do much good.

In the meantime, voting for the people who will pass amnesty, agree to Ryan’s ridiculous “compromise”, increase spending, increase the size and scope of gov’t, and have stated, repeatedly that they have no intention of actually repealing Obamacare (both Boehner and McConell have publicly stated this). Voting for these people will not “reform” the GOP, but empower it to continue behaving in this way.

Not voting and letting republicans lose will mean that the party must look at what it does and decide whether it will move right.

Think of it as “primarying” the entire party.

The reality is we have a 2 party system – that is unlikely to change. And none of the various third parties will win any time soon. So, voting for some third party will not do anything.

And, voting the “conservative” line won’t really do anything because 97% of the time, it’s just the GOP candidate.

And, in case you haven’t noticed, the party itself is fighting conservatives. The establishment is not conservative – never was (the GOP was not founded as and has never been a conservative party – it is merely a party with some conservatives in it and that is to the right of the DNC – that does not make the party conservative) and the current establishment people are unlikely to ever be ideologically conservative.

They don’t want to be conservative because they like gov’t and believe in gov’t and the big-money donors make lots of money off big gov’t. So they fight against conservatives and conservative influence on the party.

The only way to get them to toe the conservative line at all puts the fear of losing their jobs and their influence into them. The only way to do that shows them our voting power and that we WILL IN FACT use it by NOT voting for them.

They currently believe we (conservatives) will ultimately vote for them no matter what they do. And, the reality is, they have been right about this because we have done just that.

To change the dynamic, we have to prove they are not right about this – that conservatives are willing to sit out if they cross us.

Doing this demonstrates that the GOP must take the conservative base seriously, and behave more conservatively – even if it means they get walloped in one election – it would be worth it.

Otherwise, going the route we’ve been going down for decades now – just reinforces to the GOP they can continue to be ‘liberal lite’, take conservatives for granted, and there is no reason for them to behave conservatively because they can continue to be squishes, giving the Dems what they want, and there will be no penalty for doing so.

Anyone who disagrees with this needs to explain how continuing to vote for the GOP – as we’ve done for decades – will suddenly result in something *different*, I’m afraid.

The only way to win the fight is to change the party. We will not change the party through constant support of the party despite its actions.

Voting for the GOP despite its behavior will not change the GOP. As an example – if a child does something wrong – do you reward the child for that behavior? If you do, you are fool because you are guarantying that behavior will continue. Well, the same is true with the GOP. If you reward the GOP by voting for it – you are incentivizing that same behavior in the future.

Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Voting for the GOP when the GOP is not remotely conservative and expecting them to act conservative fits well within the definition of insanity.

It would be one thing if the GOP were not conservative but were at least fiscally responsible – but not even that is true.

I realize that it goes against the grain to sit out and potentially allow the DNC to win. But, in reality, this is the only way we will change the GOP in our lifetimes. We have been trying to change the GOP through action, primaries, involvement, etc. for 30 years. And it has not happened.

Monkeytoe on March 20, 2014 at 2:04 PM

Which is why he admitted making misleading statements and paid $300,000. Even still, you said you would no longer support him. That makes the GOP 100% RINOs in your eyes and the only person you have actively supported here is Barack Obama.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 1:59 PM

No one that supports giving Democrats net 10 to 20 million new votes can call themselves conservative. Period.

astonerii on March 20, 2014 at 2:04 PM

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 1:56 PM

You are a liar.

You lied about my position – you said I encouraged people to vote for Obama. I never did.

You lied about me saying I would not vote. I never said that.

You lied about being a long time commenter here. When called on it you claimed “Oh, I used to post under another name”.

You lie consistently and repeatedly. You can have your own opinion (even if it is incredibly stupid) but not your own facts. Fact is, you are a liar.

Monkeytoe on March 20, 2014 at 2:05 PM

The mark of a failed and completely incoherent argument: Calling everything you don’t want to hear a lie.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 1:56 PM

Please tell me what argument you have made in favor of voting GOP?

The only arguments you have made are as follows:

1. Not voting for the GOP is akin to treason.

2. If you don’t vote for the GOP you are lazy.

3. If you don’t vote for the GOP you are stupid.

That’s it. That is the sum total of your intelligent arguments in favor of voting for the GOP.

Sorry bud, you are an imbecile.

Monkeytoe on March 20, 2014 at 2:07 PM

I sure hope you blame me for Romney’s loss in the General election, it means that I am a far better leader than you are.

astonerii on March 20, 2014 at 1:59 PM

It comes out. Yeah, Moby, you are a great “leader” you helped a bunch of fools shoot themselves in the foot and bring about the worst for the country. In a perfect world your punishment would be to be forced to live in the system that you have advocated for: unfree, without opportunity and suffocating. The thing is, you wouldn’t know what to do with opportunity anyway.
You have just helped make a mess that other, better people are going to have to clean up.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 2:10 PM

@V7_Sport: I pledged to uphold and defend the Constitution, yes. Too bad no one in the actual ruling government is willing to do the same, and the rest of the country isn’t much interested in holding them to account for it. What exactly does my pledge to defend the Constitution mean if the government no longer abides by it? What does my oath oblige me to do then? THAT’s a can of worms we really don’t want to open, isn’t it?

If Republicans won’t hold Democrats accountable for flagrant, screaming violations of the Constitution like using the IRS against private citizens, or hold Obama to account for openly refusing to enforce laws, then what are they FOR? What is the point of them? If Americans don’t care that their government is ignoring the Constitution, then what is the point of the Constitution at all? Defending the Constitution is like a tree falling in the forest. Does it matter if I defend a document that no one else particularly cares about? I’m obliged to fight for ideals that the majority of the country doesn’t particularly care about or outright oppose?

You talk about fighting as if there is an enemy that can be confronted. Who are we fighting? It’s not the Democrats or even the Republicans. They’re just symptoms. The problem is the vast majority of this country that vote Democrat or don’t vote, and that’s at least 2/3 of our population. The “fight” you propose is to reach those people through a hostile media via a party that is lukewarm at best about the things you want to say. Your “fight” is to continue voting for, calling, and monetarily supporting that party regardless of its track record or its stated intentions and hope everything works out okay, all evidence to the contrary, regardless of what it means for your own future and the future of your children; indeed, to offer up that future and all the fruits of your lifetime of labor–as if anyone will even recognize it as a sacrifice–in service to an oath that even the leader of our country doesn’t give a damn about.

Zoomie on March 20, 2014 at 2:13 PM

Oh well. Gotta go.

I’ll log on much later though to make sure Dipshit-7 doesn’t get the last word.

Because he is a traitor. And too lazy to do anything but blindly vote for the GOP. And dishonest. And, of course, stupid.

Monkeytoe on March 20, 2014 at 2:15 PM

Zoomie on March 20, 2014 at 2:13 PM

last thing. Very eloquent.

Monkeytoe on March 20, 2014 at 2:16 PM

It comes out. Yeah, Moby, you are a great “leader” you helped a bunch of fools shoot themselves in the foot and bring about the worst for the country. In a perfect world your punishment would be to be forced to live in the system that you have advocated for: unfree, without opportunity and suffocating. The thing is, you wouldn’t know what to do with opportunity anyway.
You have just helped make a mess that other, better people are going to have to clean up.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 2:10 PM

What comes out? I was just looking for you to admit how much better I am at convincing people than you are. You already called that ball a long time ago. Not that it is true. I want a conservative Republican party. Romney was not that.

You perpetual vote for the Republican is what has helped create the mess.

The party can count on your vote, it does not need to court you or perform anything for you. That is why it moves the government further leftward every time it has power.

With the exception of two leaders we have had. Ronald Reagan moved it rightward, amnesty being his biggest mistake in office and Newt Gingrich moved it rightward as a speaker of the house against Clinton’s desire to move it leftward as president.

You empower the left in everything you do. My heroes are the people who actually accomplished something for conservatism. Your heroes are the people who attack conservatives and detest the only two members of the party in the last 80 years which have affected conservative change. Romney hated/hates conservatives, he disliked Reagan so much he distanced himself from Reagan.

who oh who is the MOBY? They guy who pushes the party to the left or the one who pushes it to the right? Who oh who is it?

astonerii on March 20, 2014 at 2:19 PM

Monkeytoe

You are a liar.

No, I am not. You are an idiot.

You lied about my position – you said I encouraged people to vote for Obama. I never did.

This is what I have written:

“Someone who sides with people who advocate voting for Obama out of conservative principles or staying at home on election day in order to gain influence over the political process by losing. That’s smart, huh Fredo…

“You just waded in on behalf of those who have and are encouraging people to stay at home and “let it burn”. It’s not a patriotic option to not vote and its not a conservative one to “let it burn” or vote for Barack Obama. Idiot”

So you just provably lied about my position.

You lied about me saying I would not vote

You have defended not voting, do you have a point? Obviously not, you are just having a tantrum that I wrote something that made you feel bad about yourself. That’s pretty narcissistic. Regardless, calling everything a lie is just infantile.

You lied about being a long time commenter here. When called on it you claimed “Oh, I used to post under another name”.

That wasn’t the quote, you just provably lied again.

You lie consistently and repeatedly.

Infant.

Fact is, you are a liar.

Prove it as I have with you, show me a lie. You have deliberately mischaracterized my positions, ie, lied.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 2:21 PM

Re. Monkeytoe

Please tell me what argument you have made in favor of voting GOP?

I haven’t. Idiot.
Eventually you will be faced with a choice of a couple of viable candidates, you follow the Buckley rule and then work to hold them accountable.
Hilarious. Shake your fist harder.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 2:24 PM

I was wrong, I just couldn’t quit the site, even though I do have to leave very soon.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 2:24 PM

Saying you are not a liar does not disprove your lies.

You lied. Accept it and move on.

You were caught red-handed with the lies.

Tough.

You also claim to have served in the military – I have no doubt that is a lie.

The funny thing is, you don’t get what i am doing. I simply decided to jump on and use your own “arguing” tactics against you, which is do nothing but call other people names. All I am doing is echoing how you “debate”. Name call, name call, name call. I’ve been laughing the whole time and truly enjoying this.

Re. Monkeytoe

Please tell me what argument you have made in favor of voting GOP?

I haven’t.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 2:24 PM

Finally some honesty. You admit to having no argument to make in regards to voting for the GOP.

As far as candidates – you simply are dense. the argument isn’t about individual candidates – it is about the GOP as a whole.

I will reiterate, you are truly the dumbest person I have ever encountered on a website. You have absolutely zero ability to understand concepts. It’s amazing.

You admit to having and making no argument, but seem confounded that you are unable to persuade anyone of the correctness of your position. Funny.

Monkeytoe on March 20, 2014 at 2:31 PM

I haven’t. Idiot.
Eventually you will be faced with a choice of a couple of viable candidates, you follow the Buckley rule and then work to hold them accountable.
Hilarious. Shake your fist harder.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 2:24 PM

Your vote is your most powerful tool for holding politicians accountable. Phone calls are worthless if they know you will not withhold your vote. Sending them letters is worthless if they know you will not withhold your vote. Actually, your vote is your only tool for holding politicians accountable.

Hilarious, shake your fist harder!

astonerii on March 20, 2014 at 2:34 PM

This is what I have written:

“Someone who sides with people who advocate voting for Obama out of conservative principles or staying at home on election day in order to gain influence over the political process by losing. That’s smart, huh Fredo…

“You just waded in on behalf of those who have and are encouraging people to stay at home and “let it burn”. It’s not a patriotic option to not vote and its not a conservative one to “let it burn” or vote for Barack Obama. Idiot”

That was your excuse after I called you out on lying about my position.

that wasn’t what you originally said. So, to claim that proves you did not lie is simply wrong. That is the explanation after the fact for your lie.

Had you said that at the beginning, you maybe would have had a point.

but to say it after the fact, when called on your lie – is not the same thing.

As far as the last sentence, you don’t get to define patriotic or conservative. Hell, you aren’t patriotic or conservative and I doubt you know what either word means.

Monkeytoe on March 20, 2014 at 2:36 PM

Actually, your vote is your only tool for holding politicians accountable.

Hilarious, shake your fist harder!

astonerii on March 20, 2014 at 2:34 PM

Accountable? Why would you want to hold the GOP accountable? Don’t you know it is your patriotic duty to vote GOP no matter what? And if you don’t you are a lazy, stupid, traitor.

Why, if you don’t vote GOP, other, better people will have to!

Monkeytoe on March 20, 2014 at 2:38 PM

For those just arriving to the comments section, I’ll sum up the past 300 or so comments for you:

I KNOW YOU ARE BUT WHAT AM I?!

There. You’re all welcome for the time I just saved you.

Longing4Lincoln on March 20, 2014 at 2:40 PM

Longing4Lincoln on March 20, 2014 at 2:40 PM

You’re taking all the fun out of it.

Monkeytoe on March 20, 2014 at 2:41 PM

“You just waded in on behalf of those who have and are encouraging people to stay at home and “let it burn”. It’s not a patriotic option to not vote and its not a conservative one to “let it burn” or vote for Barack Obama. Idiot”

That was your excuse after I called you out on lying about my position.

that wasn’t what you originally said. So, to claim that proves you did not lie is simply wrong. That is the explanation after the fact for your lie.

Had you said that at the beginning, you maybe would have had a point.

but to say it after the fact, when called on your lie – is not the same thing.

As far as the last sentence, you don’t get to define patriotic or conservative. Hell, you aren’t patriotic or conservative and I doubt you know what either word means.

Monkeytoe on March 20, 2014 at 2:36 PM

Funny thing is that would mean that almost all American Citizens for decades were unpatriotic, even though they are the ones that fought and shed blood to create this nation. In order to vote you had to be a citizen, a free man and owned property you paid taxes on or paid taxes due to running a profitable business.

Man, I always thought the Founders of this nation were patriotic. Silly me to think such a thing. Patriotism is voting!

astonerii on March 20, 2014 at 2:42 PM

Funny thing is that would mean that almost all American Citizens for decades were unpatriotic, even though they are the ones that fought and shed blood to create this nation. In order to vote you had to be a citizen, a free man and owned property you paid taxes on or paid taxes due to running a profitable business.

Man, I always thought the Founders of this nation were patriotic. Silly me to think such a thing. Patriotism is voting!

astonerii on March 20, 2014 at 2:42 PM

Not to mention all those servicemen and women who died or were injured in WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc., who voted or still vote for the DNC.

I guess they were/are traitorous scum.

Monkeytoe on March 20, 2014 at 2:45 PM

Re.Zoomie

I pledged to uphold and defend the Constitution, yes.

So “letting it (the USA) burn” fits in with that how?

Too bad no one in the actual ruling government is willing to do the same,

We need to work on that.

and the rest of the country isn’t much interested in holding them to account for it.

That too. How did surrender become an option though? Seriously? Please answer that.

What exactly does my pledge to defend the Constitution mean if the government no longer abides by it?

It means that you have to defend the Constitution from the government. You do this by replacing the worst offenders and working with who you can work with to reign in the rest.

What does my oath oblige me to do then?

Not give up on the country. To succeed or go down fighting.

THAT’s a can of worms we really don’t want to open, isn’t it?

There are peaceful means, (indeed violence wont work) to replace and renew this government it’s our obligation to follow them. The most basic, fundamental of which are voting. People who tell you that you are being clever by nullifying your vote are out to rule you, they think that they are your better. The people who tell you to let it burn are out to disenfranchise you, be it drew-m or the Mobys here who want you to just lie down and take it.

If Republicans won’t hold Democrats accountable for flagrant, screaming violations of the Constitution like using the IRS against private citizens, or hold Obama to account for openly refusing to enforce laws, then what are they FOR? What is the point of them?

Elections have consequences, the democrats are in power and are excellent at stonewalling any effort to hold them accountable.

If Americans don’t care that their government is ignoring the Constitution, then what is the point of the Constitution at all?

That’s your best point by far, all I can say is that “letting it burn” probably isn’t a good example to these people who don’t care. You don’t fight something by joining it. You don’t beat apathy by becioming apathetic.

You talk about fighting as if there is an enemy that can be confronted. Who are we fighting?

Reid, Pelosi, Soros, Trumka, The teachers unions, academia, etc.. ,

The “fight” you propose is to reach those people through a hostile media via a party that is lukewarm at best about the things you want to say.

Dude, we aren”t fighting at all. Seriously, that’s what drove Breitbart nuts. Pushing back would gain momentum. Just rolling over gives it all to them.

Your “fight” is to continue voting for, calling, and monetarily supporting that party regardless of its track record or its stated intentions and hope everything works out okay,

Not “hoping”, working to see that it is so.

regardless of what it means for your own future and the future of your children

As opposed to “letting it burn” (He sees a copy of the constitution and the Decloration of Independence going up in flames.

“as if anyone will even recognize it as a sacrifice–in service to an oath that even the leader of our country doesn’t give a damn about.

I don’t need recognition. Seriously, a lot better men only got recognized with a pine box, if that. I don’t even see it as a “sacrifice” to work toward a better political outcome. We have been given something special and while it may be in tatters, it’s still there and can be reclaimed and it needs to be re-affirmed. When I see people advocating that we should just “let it burn” it is spit in the eye to those who have given more than their time and money to ensure that we get this gift. The “demographics”, and the numbers and the inconvenience just strike me as an excuse for apathy in the face of an existential threat and that’s not who we are or who we can be if this is going to ever be OK again.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 2:49 PM

OK. this time I really will leave and stop poking the bear.

Monkeytoe on March 20, 2014 at 2:50 PM

Re monkeyboy

Saying you are not a liar does not disprove your lies.

Makes about as much sense as anything else you have written.

You lied. Accept it and move on.

I haven’t.

You were caught red-handed with the lies.

That’s another lie on your part.

You also claim to have served in the military – I have no doubt that is a lie.

USN, I have a dd-214 around somewhere, not that it’s any of your business.

The funny thing is, you don’t get what i am doing.

Yes, I get it, you have spelled it out. This is not what I do, you are not “arguing” you are just chanting “liar”.

All I am doing is echoing how you “debate”. Name call, name call, name call. I’ve been laughing the whole time and truly enjoying this

Yeah, I debate with people who can reciprocate. You have been obnoxious from the start. You have a huge chip on your shoulder and that isn’t a debate topic, as much as you enjoy turning it into one.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 3:00 PM

astonerii

Your vote is your most powerful tool for holding politicians accountable.

Money is. Voting is next.

Phone calls are worthless

No they are not.

if they know you will not withhold your vote.

You can primary them, withhold money, lobby elsewhere, and on and on and on, all the things that I have set out before. You have practically acknowledged you are a Moby and patted yourself on the back for being a better leader to the rubes.

I sure hope you blame me for Romney’s loss in the General election, it means that I am a far better leader than you are.

astonerii on March 20, 2014 at 1:59 PM

Get a job.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 3:06 PM

Not to mention all those servicemen and women who died or were injured in WWII, Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc., who voted or still vote for the DNC.

I guess they were/are traitorous scum.

Monkeytoe on March 20, 2014 at 2:45 PM

If they did so because they deliberately wanted to bring about the worst for the country then yes, scum. That’s what this is about, idiot, bringing about collapse by voting for the likes of Obama.

When you write:

I realize that it goes against the grain to sit out and potentially allow the DNC to win. But, in reality, this is the only way we will change the GOP in our lifetimes.

You are advocating not voting and losing elections to the democrats, who don’t give a rats as$ why you didn’t vote, just that you didn’t. And as we have seen, at least by the others on the bandwagon that you have hopped on to, there is NO ONE conservative enough for you, unless perhaps it’s someone perfect like Christine O’Donnell.
Yes, working to bring about the worst for the country by deliberately voting for the worst choice is traitorous. Deal with it.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 3:14 PM

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 3:06 PM

Money is really more valuable than your vote? And you expect people here to imagine you conservative?

I notice that you truncated the statement about phone calls and letters. You skipped the part about where the politician already owns your vote, so you can yell and scream at them all day, all night, weeks months years on end and you will sway him precisely none what-so-ever. He already owns your vote. Why would he listen to you?

Yes, we could primary them, but we all already know at this point in time what the incumbency benefit is for them. How valuable that member is to the outside groups that fund them. How much name recognition counts. How easy it is to buy the voters with other peoples money.

As for withholding contributions? Isn’t that unpatriotic? You have every obligation to donate and stomp the ground for them in the general! You yourself say they own it! But it does not much matter anyways, your money is worthless to them…

In the 2012 election, 28 percent of all disclosed political contributions came from just 31,385 people. In a nation of 313.85 million, these donors represent the 1% of the 1%, an elite class that increasingly serves as the gatekeepers of public office in the United States.

The only power you have over them is to credibly tell them that if they are not playing ball with you, that you will do everything in your power to oust them from office. Including the things you say. But the single most powerful tool in your box is your vote.

Your vote is worthless. It is freely given. You have no power. You are an impotent when it comes to ability to sway a politician.

astonerii on March 20, 2014 at 3:22 PM

Yes, working to bring about the worst for the country by deliberately voting for the worst choice is traitorous. Deal with it.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 3:14 PM

Good thing you admit to being a traitor since you advocate for degrading the value of the Republican party with respect to its ability to prevent the Democrats from destroying it.

You help cause the Republican party to become rubber stamps for the Democrat party because your guaranteed vote for them tells them that they are free to move as far to the left as they want to in order to potentially get more voters. That there is the worst the country can have, no opposition to the regressive Democratic party. You are doing an extraordinarily good job of it.

astonerii on March 20, 2014 at 3:27 PM

ou are advocating not voting and losing elections to the democrats, who don’t give a rats as$ why you didn’t vote, just that you didn’t. And as we have seen, at least by the others on the bandwagon that you have hopped on to, there is NO ONE conservative enough for you, unless perhaps it’s someone perfect like Christine O’Donnell.
Yes, working to bring about the worst for the country by deliberately voting for the worst choice is traitorous. Deal with it.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 3:14 PM

You are an idiot. You don’t read what others write, don’t argue with facts, lie, and make no sense.

You truly are a despicable moron.

You have never, in any comment across any thread, made an argument.

All you do is name call and predict dire consequences should the dems win an election. That is not an argument you f***ing moron. You are a god-d**m, useless, f****ing moron. You are unable to make a rational point and instead keep saying the same childish shit again and again.

You don’t even get that every time I post a comment to you all I”m doing is making fun of you. I’m not calling you names because I think it is good argument. I’m doing it because that is all you do so I am simply responding in kind.

And you are too dumb to even figure it out. You simply keep doing it over and over and over.

I do mean this – I am not exaggerating when I say I believe you are truly one of the dumbest people I have come across online. And that is saying something. That is counting all the lefty trolls and who come here and post nonsense.

And you don’t get it. You think you are making a point when you write your inanities.

You are truly disturbed. Yet you believe you are making some kind of point. It is actually quite comical.

Monkeytoe on March 20, 2014 at 3:30 PM

eah, I debate with people who can reciprocate. You have been obnoxious from the start. You have a huge chip on your shoulder and that isn’t a debate topic, as much as you enjoy turning it into one.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 3:00 PM

In all seriousness, line me a comment in a debate you have had where you do anything other than call names.

I have never seen it. You have one thing – you call people who disagree with you (1) stupid; (2) lazy; and (3) unpatriotic.

that’s it – that’s you whole “debate” right there. Which is why I am playing with you and you are too stupid to even realize it. I don’t believe I’m debating you, I never did believe that. I commented with the express purpose of doing nothing but poking you in the eye because I saw you were doing your same schtick here that you always do – which again is call people who disagree with you (1) stupid; (2) lazy; and/or (3) unpatriotic.

And you honestly believe you are making a contribution to conservatism or to the country?

You really are not bright.

Monkeytoe on March 20, 2014 at 3:33 PM

USN, I have a dd-214 around somewhere, not that it’s any of your business.

Just like you used to post here under another name?

Liar.

Monkeytoe on March 20, 2014 at 3:34 PM

USN, I have a dd-214 around somewhere, not that it’s any of your business.

Just like you used to post here under another name?

Liar.

Monkeytoe on March 20, 2014 at 3:34 PM

Anyone who has a DD-214 knows EXACTLY where it is. It is not something that is around somewhere.

astonerii on March 20, 2014 at 3:38 PM

Anyone who has a DD-214 knows EXACTLY where it is. It is not something that is around somewhere.

astonerii on March 20, 2014 at 3:38 PM

The reality is it doesn’t matter. I’m just sticking it in his eye.

the fact that I served, or you served, or he served, or any of us didn’t serve doesn’t make either of us right or wrong.

But, it goes to his whole “patriotic” schtick. That somehow if you don’t vote GOP you are unpatriotic, and if you do vote GOP you are “fighting” the good fight, standing on the beaches, taking incoming fire, braving the odds, to do your patriotic duty to vote for the GOP.

So silly.

Monkeytoe on March 20, 2014 at 3:42 PM

astonerii

Money is really more valuable than your vote?

To them it is.

And you expect people here to imagine you conservative?

As compaired to you? All folks have to read is your many appeals for them to vote for Obama.

I notice that you truncated the statement about phone calls and letters.

I’m feeding the troll. You have been told all about it, you just want to keep me hanging the computer.

You skipped the part about where the politician already owns your vote,

Maybe I don’t want to look like a goddamn fool begging people to vote for Obama.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 4:13 PM

Re.Monkeyboy

hat’s it – that’s you whole “debate” right there. Which is why I am playing with you and you are too stupid to even realize it.

I’ve given you enough rope. Do you think anyone would ever look at any of this and not think you are an a$shole? From the onset, from our very first interaction you have been this kind of as$hole.
Lash out some more, monkeyboy, I can refer back to this whenever I see anyone who might make the mistake of actually taking you seriously.

And you honestly believe you are making a contribution to conservatism or to the country?

LOL, as opposed to courageously sitting on the couch and helping the socialists create a mess that other, better people will have to clean up? Yes.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 4:13 PM

Just like you used to post here under another name?

Liar.

Monkeytoe on March 20, 2014 at 3:34 PM

I haven’t lied. Here;s another one of yours:

OK. this time I really will leave and stop poking the bear.

Monkeytoe on March 20, 2014 at 2:50 PM

Guess your words mean nothing. Liar.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 4:14 PM

That there is the worst the country can have, no opposition to the regressive Democratic party.
astonerii on March 20, 2014 at 3:27 PM

LOL….

There were at least three other times we had smaller discussions. Maybe you should get a notepad and write this down. If the Republican nominee is Romney, then astonerii and his extended family will be voting for Obama.
astonerii on February 6, 2012 at 11:54 AM

The point of voting Obama is to try to prevent Romney from ruining the brand name. Like Bush did….
astonerii on February 2, 2012 at 7:38 PM

I vote Obama if the only other choice on the ballot is Romney. Nothing says end of a party like having that parties president preside over the end of the country.
astonerii on October 9, 2011 at 8:46 PM

That is why Romney is absolutely unacceptable to me as a Republican president and why I will work against his election if he is the nominee.
astonerii on March 24, 2012 at 3:37 PM

Me, I will convince my 28 member extended family (LOL!) to vote Obama and let the Democrats take the responsibility for the next four years.
You can b!tch and moan all you want about how unfair it is….
astonerii on January 27, 2012 at 6:09 PM

I will never in my life vote for Willard Mitt Romney. I will vote in this election.
astonerii on March 21, 2012 at 11:10 PM

I will vote. It will not be for Willard Mitt Romney. If you cannot live with another 4 years of Obama, pity to you for being such a pathetically weak person.
astonerii on March 21, 2012 at 11:22 PM

I will actively vote against Romney I will vote for the conservative in the Senate and House. […] I will not go third party, I will go for the throat and vote direct for Obama. Parties do not learn lessons, but the electorate does!
[...] Vote for Obama, vote for the conservative for congress. Got it.
astonerii on February 1, 2012 at 11:26 AM

I would vote Obama just to shut people like you up.
astonerii on November 29, 2011 at 8:20 PM

I see Romney as a bigger long term threat to the nation than Obama.
astonerii on April 5, 2012 at 7:09 PM

I will vote Obama if there is not a solid true conservative with enough backbone to reverse the direction of the nation.
astonerii on April 18, 2011 at 12:29 PM

I vote Obama if Romney is on the ticket. I will not go so far as to send a donation or put a sticker on my bumper, I never put stickers on my bumper, but I will vote.
astonerii on July 17, 2011 at 5:42 PM

I can vote for Obama. This gives the most value. I am young enough to fight in a civil war today and a decade or so more, thus if I vote Obama, and he can bring the collapse of the American dollar and our economy faster than the R, my vote for him gives me value.
[...]
According to my chart, voting Obama if the primary voters decide to pick a progressive is my next best option.
astonerii on June 17, 2011 at 8:47 PM

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 4:26 PM

I was going to leave work early, but forgot I had a teleconference I had to suffer through, so I am sticking it out and continuing to comment. Wanted to leave, but couldn’t.

I’ve given you enough rope. Do you think anyone would ever look at any of this and not think you are an a$shole? From the onset, from our very first interaction you have been this kind of as$hole.
Lash out some more, monkeyboy, I can refer back to this whenever I see anyone who might make the mistake of actually taking you seriously.

And you honestly believe you are making a contribution to conservatism or to the country?

LOL, as opposed to courageously sitting on the couch and helping the socialists create a mess that other, better people will have to clean up? Yes.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 4:13 PM

You are too funny. We’ve had this dance before, on other threads, and you pretend this is the first one.

You so damn dishonest. And so stupid.

Again, you have never made an argument, with me or anyone else

All you do is call names. I do the same to you. I admit that is what I am doing. Because it is all you have ever done. Which is why I find your crying about it here so funny.

You admit that is you all you do. You admit you have no argument.

Yet you continue pretending to be doing anything other than screaming and gnashing your teeth.

I haven’t had this much entertainment in a long time.

I don’t really care who comes and looks at my comments here. I have nothing to hide. Unlike you, I’ve been honest and open about what I am doing. I’m playing your game. I’m calling you names. That’s all you ever do, so that is what I am doing.

If you have an argument to make without calling names, I’ve never seen it.

Monkeytoe on March 20, 2014 at 4:36 PM

V-7 golden shower,

At your next collective gathering with your fellow Marxist brethren, please tell them you are still a useful idiot for the left.

Again, why do you hate America? Why do you want to try and destroy it?

Monkeytoe on March 20, 2014 at 4:43 PM

I was going to leave work early, but forgot I had a teleconference I had to suffer through, so I am sticking it out and continuing to comment. Wanted to leave, but couldn’t.

So now you are making excuses for being a liar.

You are too funny. We’ve had this dance before, on other threads, and you pretend this is the first one.

Had you actually read and understood what I wrote you would have seen that was not what I was claiming at all. I’ll give you the benefet of the doubt there and say that you weren’t mischaracterizing what I wrote, you are just illiterate.

You so damn dishonest. And so stupid.

Stay classy.

Again, you have never made an argument, with me or anyone else

Another lie.

All you do is call names. I do the same to you. I admit that is what I am doing.

Well, that’s not what I have done. Again, from the onset, including those previous threads, you have been an as$hole. From the very first post. And again, I have laid out a clear and coherent position, if you don’t get it or refuse to get it that’s fine, but it exists nonetheless.

Which is why I find your crying about it here so funny.

Another lie on your behalf. So you lie and admit that all you are doing is tossing out insults. Isn’t that he very definition of a troll? Isn’t that against the TOS?

Yet you continue pretending to be doing anything other than screaming and gnashing your teeth.

Yeah, pretty sure I am not doing any of that, nut.

I haven’t had this much entertainment in a long time.

That’s pretty pathetic as well. You don’t have much of a life if that’s the case.

I don’t really care who comes and looks at my comments here. I have nothing to hide.

Acknowledging that you are just name calling ann nothing else.. you aren’t ashamed of that.

I’m playing your game. I’m calling you names. That’s all you ever do, so that is what I am doing.

Anyone who can actually bread and understand my posts will see otherwise. You have contributed nothing to the conversation but trolling and hysteria.

If you have an argument to make without calling names, I’ve never seen it.

I can’t pretend that stupid is smart and self defeating is sound strategy. I don’t see any need to pat you on the back when you are saying something that is dumb, and staying at home to teach the GOP a lesson (thereby helping to elect socialists) is dumb. Voting for Obama out of conservative principles is dumb. Don’t like it when people call you dumb? Smarten up. Or at least stop proudly announcing that you do or support dumb things. Was that a clear enough argument for you? It went seamlessly from a to b to c.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 5:04 PM

Monkeyboy

At your next collective gathering with your fellow Marxist brethren, please tell them you are still a useful idiot for the left.

Psycological projection from what is effectively at least, a moby.

Again, why do you hate America? Why do you want to try and destroy it?

I don’t. Have you gotten enough attention, troll?

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 5:06 PM

I don’t. Have you gotten enough attention, troll?

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 5:06 PM

I forgot what your argument is again. Could you remind me?

astonerii on March 20, 2014 at 5:40 PM

Hello senator, I am one of your constituents and I have a problem with how you appear to be ready to vote for the upcoming bill.

Aren’t you V7_sport?

Yes, Yes I am.

Click. (we already own his vote, F7ck him!)

Hello senator, I am one of your constituents and I have a problem with how you appear to be ready to vote for the upcoming bill. I will vote against you in the primary if you vote for it, but if you win that, you got my vote.

Click. (Chances of me losing in a primary with people like him as the base, 2%. How cheap can you be?)

Hello senator, I am one of your constituents and I have a problem with how you appear to be ready to vote for the upcoming bill. If you vote for it, I will not donate to you, but you can count on my vote in the general.

Click. (Looks at his books and figures he has enough money in his warchest to last the next 5 elections and this bill will get him huge kick backs from the beneficiaries!)

Hello senator, I am one of your constituents and I have a problem with how you appear to be ready to vote for the upcoming bill. I will not tolerate a person who votes for this bill to be in office, even it it means allowing you to be defeated by the Democratic candidate. You cannot earn my vote while voting against my preferred policies like this.

I am voting for it to get other people’s votes. They will outweigh your one vote.

You might be thinking, big deal, 1 lost vote, I have friends and family, they listen to and respect me. They voted along with me last election for you when you said you would not vote for something like this. They also will not vote for you if you vote for this bill. I have friends and coworkers and many of them will listen to me and likely decide not to vote for you either.

So, what you are saying is that you are my base and you are willing to throw me out of office? Lose your representation, bah, you will cave and I will have your votes and theirs!

Yes, we are willing to allow the other person to win because we have values. If you do not represent those values, then being associated with you tarnishes our values. You ran on our values, you accepted our votes, you will represent our values, not someone else’. Otherwise, we will no longer associate with you. That means no donations, we support the primary opponent, we vote for the primary opponent and if that does not work when the general comes around we allow you to lose office. We vote for representation, you will either be our representative or you will be out of office.

astonerii on March 20, 2014 at 6:37 PM

Can’t hear you over this:

If the Republican nominee is Romney, then astonerii and his extended family will be voting for Obama.
astonerii on February 6, 2012 at 11:54 AM

The point of voting Obama is to try to prevent Romney from ruining the brand name. Like Bush did….
astonerii on February 2, 2012 at 7:38 PM

I vote Obama if the only other choice on the ballot is Romney. Nothing says end of a party like having that parties president preside over the end of the country.
astonerii on October 9, 2011 at 8:46 PM

That is why Romney is absolutely unacceptable to me as a Republican president and why I will work against his election if he is the nominee.
astonerii on March 24, 2012 at 3:37 PM

Me, I will convince my 28 member extended family to vote Obama and let the Democrats take the responsibility for the next four years.
You can b!tch and moan all you want about how unfair it is….
astonerii on January 27, 2012 at 6:09 PM

I will never in my life vote for Willard Mitt Romney. I will vote in this election.
astonerii on March 21, 2012 at 11:10 PM

I will vote. It will not be for Willard Mitt Romney. If you cannot live with another 4 years of Obama, pity to you for being such a pathetically weak person.
astonerii on March 21, 2012 at 11:22 PM

I will actively vote against Romney I will vote for the conservative in the Senate and House. […] I will not go third party, I will go for the throat and vote direct for Obama. Parties do not learn lessons, but the electorate does!
[...] Vote for Obama, vote for the conservative for congress. Got it.
astonerii on February 1, 2012 at 11:26 AM

I would vote Obama just to shut people like you up.
astonerii on November 29, 2011 at 8:20 PM

I see Romney as a bigger long term threat to the nation than Obama.
astonerii on April 5, 2012 at 7:09 PM

I will vote Obama if there is not a solid true conservative with enough backbone to reverse the direction of the nation.
astonerii on April 18, 2011 at 12:29 PM

I vote Obama if Romney is on the ticket. I will not go so far as to send a donation or put a sticker on my bumper, I never put stickers on my bumper, but I will vote.
astonerii on July 17, 2011 at 5:42 PM

I can vote for Obama. This gives the most value. I am young enough to fight in a civil war today and a decade or so more, thus if I vote Obama, and he can bring the collapse of the American dollar and our economy faster than the R, my vote for him gives me value.
[...]
According to my chart, voting Obama if the primary voters decide to pick a progressive is my next best option.
astonerii on June 17, 2011 at 8:47 PM

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 7:44 PM

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 7:44 PM

No, it is not that. You have been defeated in completion.

Attack me all you want, but your position is failed in total.

astonerii on March 20, 2014 at 7:50 PM

astonerii

You have been defeated in completion.

Swing and a miss. Amazed that a wordsmith like you isn’t taken seriously when he calls up his representatives.

Attack me all you want, but your position is failed in total.

Congratulations on your “success”, congratulations on a second term for Obama. Can’t wait to see what kind of BS you are going to toss out to the rubes to get them to vote for Hillary Clinton for conservative principles or something.

Yeah, you just ooze “success”.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 8:14 PM

Congratulations on your “success”, congratulations on a second term for Obama. Can’t wait to see what kind of BS you are going to toss out to the rubes to get them to vote for Hillary Clinton for conservative principles or something.

Yeah, you just ooze “success”.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 8:14 PM

It was a forgone conclusion when Romney, your candidate, was nominated for the position.

Congratulations for sticking us with 4 more years of Obama. As well as a Republican opposition party that has no incentive to actually work for conservatives. A far worse place than just simply having Obama President. An incentivized opposition party would actually have stopped Obama by now. Thanks alot! You have done awesome in helping shove America down the tubes.

astonerii on March 20, 2014 at 8:40 PM

Congratulations for sticking us with 4 more years of Obama

I know you mean that sincerely, however I did whatever I could to keep him out while OFA trolls like you were doing your best to sell him to the right to teach everyone a lesson or something. How well did that lesson take? “got to go through Carter to get to Reagan” was one of the talking points. Looks like Chris Christie is the new Reagan according to your supposed strategy.
But you will be pimping Clinton no doubt. Because you are a leader or something.

As well as a Republican opposition party that has no incentive to actually work for conservatives.

Not going to get anyone to work for you when you just keep chanting “I’m going to vote for Obama unless you do as you are told”. Not really “leadership”…

An incentivized opposition party would actually have stopped Obama by now.

With their magic wand. You need numbers to have influence. But you knew that. Happy that you may have demoralized enough of the suckers and the rubes to keep them home? Did George Soros give you a mouse pad?

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 9:52 PM

Congratulations for sticking us with 4 more years of Obama

I know you mean that sincerely, however I did whatever I could to keep him out while OFA trolls like you were doing your best to sell him to the right to teach everyone a lesson or something. How well did that lesson take? “got to go through Carter to get to Reagan” was one of the talking points. Looks like Chris Christie is the new Reagan according to your supposed strategy.
But you will be pimping Clinton no doubt. Because you are a leader or something.

No you didn’t, you pushed Romney. The guaranteed loser. Way to go. You know he overspent 4 times as much money on commercials. Who pays 4 times for something where quantity is critical to success? Most competent evah! Thanks again.

As well as a Republican opposition party that has no incentive to actually work for conservatives.

Not going to get anyone to work for you when you just keep chanting “I’m going to vote for Obama unless you do as you are told”. Not really “leadership”…

Not going to get anyone to do anything for you when you tell them, hey, it is ok if you work for someone else, YOU WILL STILL GET MY VOTE because I give my vote no value at all.

An incentivized opposition party would actually have stopped Obama by now.

With their magic wand. You need numbers to have influence. But you knew that. Happy that you may have demoralized enough of the suckers and the rubes to keep them home? Did George Soros give you a mouse pad?

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 9:52 PM

We have numbers. They are in the House. You know, the one that does investigations and impeachments. There are plenty of impeachable offenses from his first term and he has been piling them up ever since. The house of representatives control the purse strings, pretty much the most powerful position in a nation that spends trillions a year.

Funny you did not notice any of this. It is like you are biased or something… just like that.

astonerii on March 20, 2014 at 10:20 PM

No you didn’t, you pushed Romney. The guaranteed loser. .

And you pushed Obama.

Maybe you should get a notepad and write this down. If the Republican nominee is Romney, then astonerii and his extended family will be voting for Obama.
astonerii on February 6, 2012 at 11:54 AM

Remember that? With your endless time to devote to the task, you peppered the site with endorsements of Barack Obama. This is my favorite:

I will convince my 28 member extended family to vote Obama
astonerii on January 27, 2012 at 6:09 PM

That’s the entire trailer park voting for Obama! Now that’s what I call “leadership”.

Not going to get anyone to do anything for you when you tell them, hey, it is ok if you work for someone else, YOU WILL STILL GET MY VOTE because I give my vote no value at all.

There goes plan “A”.

We have numbers. They are in the House.

“We” are not on the same side of the issue. I am for a return to limited, small government with a powerful military and accountable representation that adheres to the Constitution. You are for Obama and, coming up, Clinton. I know that because you wrote idiotic things like this:

I will go for the throat and vote direct for Obama…..Vote for Obama”
astonerii on February 1, 2012 at 11:26 AM

So, are you going to stick with the “stay at home and don’t vote” message or go full bore “Vote for Hillary to teach the GOP a lesson” strategy? What has organizing for America told you to do?

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 11:13 PM

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 9:52 PM

.
We have numbers. They are in the House. You know, the one that does investigations and impeachments. There are plenty of impeachable offenses from his first term and he has been piling them up ever since. The house of representatives control the purse strings, pretty much the most powerful position in a nation that spends trillions a year.

Funny you did not notice any of this. It is like you are biased or something… just like that.

astonerii on March 20, 2014 at 10:20 PM

.
If the House leaders can ever get their testicles back, maybe “control of the House” will mean something.

listens2glenn on March 21, 2014 at 2:14 AM

If the House leaders can ever get their testicles back, maybe “control of the House” will mean something.

listens2glenn on March 21, 2014 at 2:14 AM

They never will. Not with V7′s way of ensuring they do not face consequences for being wimps.

astonerii on March 21, 2014 at 7:50 AM

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 11:13 PM

Name one accomplishment that undying love affair with regressive (R) candidates has brought us. Show how your path works in my favor. Do that. Come on, put up something of VALUE.

astonerii on March 21, 2014 at 7:52 AM

I can’t pretend that stupid is smart and self defeating is sound strategy. I don’t see any need to pat you on the back when you are saying something that is dumb, and staying at home to teach the GOP a lesson (thereby helping to elect socialists) is dumb. Voting for Obama out of conservative principles is dumb. Don’t like it when people call you dumb? Smarten up. Or at least stop proudly announcing that you do or support dumb things. Was that a clear enough argument for you? It went seamlessly from a to b to c.

V7_Sport on March 20, 2014 at 5:04 PM

Not only are you completely dishonest, you are an idiot.

You still aren’t capable of putting forth an argument. Even when I spell it out for you, all you can do is call names.

I get a good laugh at your attempts to be part of the conversation.

You have no argument. All you can say is “dumb”. Boy, you really showed me how I’m wrong. YOu called me dumb 500 times. I guess that makes it true. YOu also said I was a socialist and that I am unpatriotic.

Wow, you proved me wrong. You showed me how my arguments – actual analysis put together with facts – is wrong by saying it is dumb.

Like I said, anyone who reads through our exchanges knows you are an idiot and have no argument. Please link to it in the future, because it demonstrates my point.

The fact that you don’t see that just proves how stupid you are.

there might be an argument to be made for blindly supporting the GOP. You did not make it and instead proved the opposite – that only idiots are GOP loyalists.

So, I thank you for proving my point for me. It is much easier to win an argument when your opponent is as lacking in intellect as you.

The funniest thing to me about it is that you will never understand it. Everything I have said is so beyond your intellectual capacity that you actually believe you have accomplished something here, when the opposite is true.

But, you keep on trolling with your witty “dumb” comments whenever someone disagrees with you. I’m sure someone out there thinks you’re clever.

Monkeytoe on March 21, 2014 at 11:16 AM

Oh Yeah.

Anyone who doesn’t know it – V-7 golden shower is a liar.

He lied about being a long time commenter here – and when called on it and asked to link to any pre-2011 comments, he said “oh, it was under a different name”.

He lied about my positions.

He lied about lying about my positions.

He lies consistently about the GOP’s record.

He lies about having served in the military.

In fact, I don’t think he is ever honest.

So, just keep that in mind when dealing with him.

I am pretty confident he is either a paid shill for the GOP or a troll from DailyKOS.

Monkeytoe on March 21, 2014 at 11:20 AM

They never will. Not with V7′s way of ensuring they do not face consequences for being wimps.

astonerii on March 21, 2014 at 7:50 AM

He’s just trying to convince you to throw the election and elect socialists by staying at home or actively voting for the likes of Obama.

Name one accomplishment that undying love affair with regressive (R) candidates has brought us. Show how your path works in my favor. Do that. Come on, put up something of VALUE.

astonerii on March 21, 2014 at 7:52 AM

Electing republicans and ringing their phones off the hook has stopped an amnesty push, twice.

V7_Sport on March 21, 2014 at 2:01 PM

Not only are you completely dishonest, you are an idiot.

Gee, my self esteem hangs on the opinion of somene who is stupid enough to think he can get political representation by staying at home and letting others do his work for hm. Yeah, get back to me when you aren’t a lazy b!tch.

You still aren’t capable of putting forth an argument. Even when I spell it out for you, all you can do is call names.

It’s up there, just because you are too stupid to understand it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.
I get a good laugh at your attempts to be part of the conversation.

You have no argument. All you can say is “dumb”.

Here you go, try again:
I can’t pretend that stupid is smart and self defeating is sound strategy. I don’t see any need to pat you on the back when you are saying something that is dumb, and staying at home to teach the GOP a lesson (thereby helping to elect socialists) is dumb. Voting for Obama out of conservative principles is dumb. Don’t like it when people call you dumb? Smarten up. Or at least stop proudly announcing that you do or support dumb things. Was that a clear enough argument for you? It went seamlessly from a to b to c.

Boy, you really showed me how I’m wrong.

Glad it’s starting to penetrate.

YOu called me dumb 500 times.

Add “counting” to the skill list that you don’t have.

I guess that makes it true.

Finally.

V7_Sport on March 21, 2014 at 2:07 PM

They never will. Not with V7′s way of ensuring they do not face consequences for being wimps.

astonerii on March 21, 2014 at 7:50 AM

He’s just trying to convince you to throw the election and elect socialists by staying at home or actively voting for the likes of Obama.

Trying to remind people where their true power lies. You want them to be powerless against a regressive shift in the party.

Name one accomplishment that undying love affair with regressive (R) candidates has brought us. Show how your path works in my favor. Do that. Come on, put up something of VALUE.

astonerii on March 21, 2014 at 7:52 AM

Electing republicans and ringing their phones off the hook has stopped an amnesty push, twice.

V7_Sport on March 21, 2014 at 2:01 PM

It has not stopped it, it is still out there, but your voting is what makes it an every other year event. You tell them that regardless of what they do, they are better off pursuing other voters since you are already bought and it costs them nothing to cross you.

astonerii on March 21, 2014 at 2:12 PM

I can’t pretend that stupid is smart and self defeating is sound strategy. I don’t see any need to pat you on the back when you are saying something that is dumb, and staying at home to teach the GOP a lesson (thereby helping to elect socialists) is dumb. Voting for Obama out of conservative principles is dumb. Don’t like it when people call you dumb? Smarten up. Or at least stop proudly announcing that you do or support dumb things. Was that a clear enough argument for you? It went seamlessly from a to b to c.

good lord you are an imbecile. Do you really believe that is a point?

And, note again your lie – I never said vote for Obama. Can you stop lying for one second?

I guess not.

Explain to me how voting for the GOP has achieved any conservative results? Explain how voting blindly for the party that increases the debt, the size of gov’t and new entitlements does anything conservative?

You are too stupid for words.

How do you live with yourself. It is a surprise you can breath.

Monkeytoe on March 21, 2014 at 2:17 PM

Anyone who doesn’t know it – V-7 golden shower is a liar.

He lied about being a long time commenter here – and when called on it and asked to link to any pre-2011 comments, he said “oh, it was under a different name”.

He lied about my positions.

He lied about lying about my positions.

He lies consistently about the GOP’s record.

He lies about having served in the military.

In fact, I don’t think he is ever honest.

So, just keep that in mind when dealing with him.

I am pretty confident he is either a paid shill for the GOP or a troll from DailyKOS.

Monkeytoe on March 21, 2014 at 11:20 AM

Perfectly in keeping with the infantile positions you alternately hold and then back away from and then claim again…: Calling everything you don’t want to hear a lie.
It’s also in keeping with what you have admitted: that you are just here tossing out insults, you aren’t arguing a point. You can’t articulate a counterargument against anything I have written, just rage away tat I have written it. Too bad. I think what you have supported is stupid, I am not going to sugar coat that. Form a coherent counterargument (that you don’t backpedal from) or look like an infant as well as a fool for raging at something you can’t intellectually challenge.
It’s lazy to just sit back and watch the country go to hell. It’s unpatriotic to vote for the worst outcome. It makes you a lousy American to want the worst for the country by doing things like voting for Obama. These positions are unassailable. It’s just crystal clear, obvious to all but the stupidest who defend it. That’s why all you can do is toss out insults and call everything a lie. Because you are an idiot defending the indefensible.
SO:
Have at it, monkeyboy. Shake your fist harder! :-D

V7_Sport on March 21, 2014 at 2:20 PM

Trying to remind people where their true power lies. You want them to be powerless against a regressive shift in the party.

By voting for Obama or staying at home… Yeah, you are trying to get the right to hoot itself in the foot.
Amazing, I barely hit send and there is a reply. It would be great to have all that free time you have to persuade people to vote for Obama or to stay at home on election day… I would do something like go out and earn more money.

It has not stopped it, it is still out there,

Good thing you helped elect an open border president, traitor.
but your voting is what makes it an every other year event.

LOL, It’s my fault. Because I actually voted no doubt. You are like a tick on a dogs a$s telling him it’s his fault it’s raining out.

You tell them that regardless of what they do, they are better off pursuing other voters since you are already bought and it costs them nothing to cross you.

For the billionth time, that’s not what I am telling them, but you knew that at this point. You just want to elect democrats.

V7_Sport on March 21, 2014 at 2:26 PM

It’s also in keeping with what you have admitted: that you are just here tossing out insults, you aren’t arguing a point. You can’t articulate a counterargument against anything I have written, just rage away tat I have written it. Too bad. I think what you have supported is stupid, I am not going to sugar coat that. Form a coherent counterargument (that you don’t backpedal from) or look like an infant as well as a fool for raging at something you can’t intellectually challenge.
It’s lazy to just sit back and watch the country go to hell. It’s unpatriotic to vote for the worst outcome. It makes you a lousy American to want the worst for the country by doing things like voting for Obama. These positions are unassailable. It’s just crystal clear, obvious to all but the stupidest who defend it. That’s why all you can do is toss out insults and call everything a lie. Because you are an idiot defending the indefensible.
SO:
Have at it, monkeyboy. Shake your fist harder! :-D
V7_Sport on March 21, 2014 at 2:20 PM

Too funny. You doubled down on both the dishonesty and the stupidity.

You haven’t written anything to argue against. You called not voting for the GOP stupid. That is not a point or an argument
You say not voting for the GOP is unpatriotic. That isn’t a point or an argument

You say that not voting for the GOP is lazy, That is not a point or an argument.

What argument have I back-pedaled from? Please cite it. You can’t because, once again, you have lied.

Here is what you claim I can’t intellectually challenge: “You must vote for the GOP no matter what”. That is the great, self-proving fact that you think I can’t argue against? Do you really believe that? That we are all put here on this earth for no other purpose that to vote for the GOP no matter what policies the GOP pursues? No matter how much debt the GOP rings up?
Don’t you realize how dumb you look? You keep repeating the same inanity and claim it is a point. You have no point. Your point is that I should blindly vote for the GOP no matter what the GOP does. Do you really believe that is intelligent? That rewarding the GOP for its liberal acts will somehow result in conservative policy?

You are clearly the dumbest person I have ever encountered. You have no self awareness. You don’t understand even what an “argument” is. The above quote is not an argument, it is circular reasoning based on platitudes. It isn’t an argument. It’s the equivalent of saying “am so”!

My argument is that conservatives purposefully not voting for the GOP for one election will move the GOP to the right. I outline my reasoning in a very lengthy comment above. You have offered nothing to contradict a single statement I make in that argument. Saying “dumb” doesn’t do this. No matter how many times you call it dumb, it doesn’t disprove or even counter my argument. Saying I’m unpatriotic and lazy just makes me laugh, coming from an idiot like you. Sitting at home, in your mama’s basement, drawing your social security disability check. It’s sad. And then lying and saying you served in the military? Dude, c’mon. Nobody buys your nonsense.

I researched your user-name and found you ONLY comment on threads where the main post is about punishing the GOP or comments turn to that cause. You then appear and shill for the GOP. It is clear you are a GOP sock puppet. But, the fact that you are paid shill shows just how stupid the GOP is. They can’t bother to hire someone with the ability to do more than say “that’s dumb”.
I’ve had this argument with you on other threads, and all you ever do is get hysterical and call people “unpatriotic” and “stupid”. So, on this thread, I did the same to you. And you have been spewing nonsense ever since. I have thoroughly enjoyed watching you get worked up and spewing your nonsense. Every time you post I laugh and then respond because I know it will bring me yet more entertainment.

It is fun to watch. And, I’ll keep coming and doing it because I’m enjoying watching your little comments get dumber and dumber.
And you aren’t even self-aware enough to realize how dumb you are. It’s truly amazing.

Monkeytoe on March 21, 2014 at 2:43 PM

Monkeyboy
Amazingly enough, you are here hitting refresh as well!

And, note again your lie – I never said vote for Obama. Can you stop lying for one second?

You have chymed in in the defense of those who have. Then again, you have admitted that you don’t have a point.

Explain to me how voting for the GOP has achieved any conservative results?

Do try to keep up. It’s stopped amnesty, it stopped them from passing a remotely workable Obamacare bill, it has stopped international treaties on carbon tax, etc.

Do you even have a coherent position or are you just going to whine that I do? Man up, the thread is dying, if you want to do this lets get it done. Post your position in a way that you can’t squirm out of it or call it a lie if I quote it. Tell me how it differs with:

1) To be a patriot you work to get your desired outcome.
2) Follow the Buckley rule.
3) To be a patriot you don’t cr@p in your own nest. Don’t work to bring about the worst for the country.

Spell it out, concisely how it is wise to do whatever you are advocating, or let it be shown (again) that you are a troll who is following me around to hurl insults.

V7_Sport on March 21, 2014 at 2:43 PM

Re monkeyboy

Here is what you claim I can’t intellectually challenge: “You must vote for the GOP no matter what”.

Where did I write that. A$shiole? Go find that quote.

My argument is that conservatives purposefully not voting for the GOP for one election will move the GOP to the right

Your argument is lame. The GOP is much more likely to move to the left to go adfter independents if conservatives can’t be relied on. If you divorce conservatism form the GOP both will wither. (Look at what happened in Canada when they did just that, it helped ensure that liberals got elected for decades until conservatives came back in the fold of the Progressive conservative party. It was a disaster.) It invariably works to elect the opposituon when you split the vote. Its been proven over and over again, Bull Moose, Ross Perot, on and on.

I outline my reasoning in a very lengthy comment above.

Yeah, I don’t hang on your every word, I think you are a douche.

Saying “dumb” doesn’t do this.

It never was intended to.

Saying I’m unpatriotic and lazy just makes me laugh, coming from an idiot like you. Sitting at home, in your mama’s basement, drawing your social security disability check. It’s sad. And then lying and saying you served in the military? Dude, c’mon. Nobody buys your nonsense.

You have me confused with astonerii.

I researched your user-name and found you ONLY comment on threads where the main post is about punishing the GOP or comments turn to that cause.

That’s a lie, but even if it were true… So what?

You then appear and shill for the GOP.

And you are an admitted troll who is here to just hurl insults.

It is clear you are a GOP sock puppet.

What does that even mean? You are babbling.

But, the fact that you are paid shill…..

The fact that you are a nut.

I’ve had this argument with you on other threads, and all you ever do is get hysterical and call people “unpatriotic” and “stupid”. So, on this thread, I did the same to you.

I have called your positions unpatriotic and that you hold them out of conservative principles is stupid, get it straight. Not hysterical, bored at this point.

I have thoroughly enjoyed watching you get worked up and spewing your nonsense. Every time you post I laugh and then respond because I know it will bring me yet more entertainment.

Pretty pathetic life you lead if you consider this entertainment.

It is fun to watch.

Get a life.

And, I’ll keep coming and doing it because I’m enjoying watching your little comments get dumber and dumber.I have no life.

Fixed.

And you aren’t even self-aware enough to realize how dumb you are. It’s truly amazing.

Trying to be ironic?

V7_Sport on March 21, 2014 at 2:59 PM

And you aren’t even self-aware enough to realize how dumb you are. It’s truly amazing.

Trying to be ironic?

V7_Sport on March 21, 2014 at 2:59 PM

Says the person with a zero value vote!

astonerii on March 21, 2014 at 4:08 PM

Says the person with a zero value vote!
astonerii on March 21, 2014 at 4:08 PM

astonerii and his extended family will be voting for Obama.
astonerii on February 6, 2012 at 11:54 AM

V7_Sport on March 21, 2014 at 5:40 PM

V7_Sport on March 21, 2014 at 5:40 PM

Attacking me does not raise the value of your vote. It is still worth 0. Even in 0bama dollars it is 0.

astonerii on March 21, 2014 at 7:55 PM

Attacking me does not raise the value of your vote. It is still worth 0. Even in 0bama dollars it is 0.

astonerii on March 21, 2014 at 7:55 PM

Attacking you? I’m just posting your own words. Your own, stupid words.

And chanting that voting is meaningless over and over doesn’t make it true.

V7_Sport on March 22, 2014 at 12:18 AM

Attacking you? I’m just posting your own words. Your own, stupid words.

And chanting that voting is meaningless over and over doesn’t make it true.

V7_Sport on March 22, 2014 at 12:18 AM

you are right, votes have value, just not yours, because yours is owned by someone else. That someone else owes you nothing in return for you vote. You and the many like you are the reason the nation is so dysfunctional in politics.
Your vote has as much value as any North Korean’s vote does them. As much value as any Crimean vote under Russian occupation. Just exactly as much ability to change the rulers actions as any vote in a tyrannical ‘democracy’. None at all.
You imagine that voting and only voting has any patriotic value. That by voting for the guy only marginally better than the other you are HELPING the nation. But what you are doing when you do this is empowering the party that is to the left by giving the party to the right no incentive to be to the right.
You are in fact what is wrong in American politics. A worthless voter. Actually, your vote has negative value. Of course, this assumes taking you at your word that you want conservative outcomes.

If you want conservative outcomes, then you want politicians to put forward conservative policy proposals and vote for conservative policy proposals. But as I have already shown, if the politicians can safely count your vote coming from the right and wants more votes where is that politician going to go to get more votes? Well, there are almost no votes to the right, you are the right, thus they have to go towards the left to get those more votes. The left also happens to coincide with more power, more corruption and more incestuous financing schemes of kickbacks for government sponsorship. So, in fact, because you refuse to hold the politician to account, you are in fact allowing them a no cost option to move to the lucrative left and ignore your goals. This is why the longer a politician is in Washington the further to the left they are. People like you, and they are legion offer them no incentive to be more conservative than marginally to the right of their insanely leftist opposition.
I do not understand how you do not get this. It is discipline 101. Discipline is certainly a conservative value.

astonerii on March 22, 2014 at 6:12 AM

Comment pages: 1 7 8 9