Exit polls show Crimea annexation wins 93% of vote while under Russian occupation

posted at 3:31 pm on March 16, 2014 by Ed Morrissey

Big surprise, eh? No one took this seriously before it took place, and no one will take it seriously after the votes are counted. No one, that is, except for the occupying power in Crimea that forced the referendum in the first place. Russia and its new puppet regional government on the peninsula are reported record turnout and a 93% vote for annexation to its former sovereign, while the US and West denounced the entire exercise as just a pretense for a land grab:

Supporters of Crimea’s attempt to secede from Ukraine and join Russia have flocked to vote in a referendum denounced by Kiev and Western powers.

Polls closed at 18:00 GMT and officials hailed a “record” turnout. Preliminary results were expected within hours.

A vast majority of voters interviewed by journalists backed secession. Many opponents boycotted the vote.

The White House has officially rejected the results and the referendum itself, saying it occurred under duress:

The White House says Sunday’s referendum on secession is contrary to Ukraine’s constitution.

The U.S. says the world won’t recognize the results of a vote held under what it says are “threats of violence and intimidation from a Russian military intervention that violates international law.”

A written statement from the White House calls Russia’s actions in Ukraine “dangerous and destabilizing.”

The U.S. is urging other nations to “take concrete steps to impose costs” against Russia.

Secession was expected to be approved overwhelmingly.

John McCain uses a better word than referendum, one which I have used purposefully all along:

“Look, it is a bogus thing. We used to call it plebiscite in the days of Hitler and Stalin. It is a done deal,” he said on CNN’s “State of the Union.”

McCain and the U.S. ambassador to Ukraine have a running bet on how lopsided the vote will be. McCain thinks the referendum will be approved with 70 percent of the vote. …

“The United States of America, first of all, has to have a fundamental re-assessment of our relationship with Vladimir Putin. No more reset buttons, no more tell Vladimir I’ll be more flexible,” he said.

He’s right, but it’s too late for that now. Putin has already taken his measure of the West. Expect the annexation to happen immediately — and then wait for the inevitable repeat in eastern Ukraine, too.

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Surprise!

dentalque on March 16, 2014 at 3:35 PM

93% is more honest than a Chicago election.

myiq2xu on March 16, 2014 at 3:36 PM

The Nazis managed to get 98% in the Austrian “vote” after they occupied the country in 1938.

Putin needs to work harder to emulate his idols.

Norwegian on March 16, 2014 at 3:37 PM

I can’t wait for Sec State John “Neville” Kerry to weigh in tomorrow afetr his little line in the sand comment to Vlad.

D-fusit on March 16, 2014 at 3:38 PM

The Democrats have nothing on the Russians for vote fraud.

ConstantineXI on March 16, 2014 at 3:40 PM

I can’t wait for Sec State John “Neville” Kerry to weigh in tomorrow afetr his little line in the sand comment to Vlad.

D-fusit on March 16, 2014 at 3:38 PM

When does Kerry get his document waving “peace in our time!” moment?

ConstantineXI on March 16, 2014 at 3:40 PM

Um, I thought the only choices were 1) join Russia now or 2) join Russia later.

So either way it was a done deal.

rbj on March 16, 2014 at 3:41 PM

Shocka!

Philly on March 16, 2014 at 3:41 PM

No one took this seriously before it took place, and no one will take it seriously after the votes are counted. No one, that is, except for the occupying power in Crimea that forced the referendum in the first place.

Does anyone really believe that the Crimea wants to be a part of the Ukraine?

sharrukin on March 16, 2014 at 3:42 PM

But…but…Democracy!

vlad martel on March 16, 2014 at 3:44 PM

But…but…Democracy!

vlad martel on March 16, 2014 at 3:44 PM

This is democracy the way the Democrat Party believes in it: Foregone conclusion because the VOTERS are not a factor.

ConstantineXI on March 16, 2014 at 3:46 PM

Meh…Kim Jung Ill received 100% of votes in their recent election.

How many did Obammy get…I mean really get?

trs on March 16, 2014 at 3:47 PM

McCain: “Let’s close the barn door. The horses have long since gone.”

oldroy on March 16, 2014 at 3:49 PM

Meh…Kim Jung Ill received 100% of votes in their recent election.

How many did Obammy get…I mean really get?

trs on March 16, 2014 at 3:47 PM


3000%!!

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on March 16, 2014 at 3:50 PM

Oh, that’s right — Democracy is only teh awesome when it yields results we approve of…like installing puppet sharia regimes. Putin fought back hard against Chechnyan muslims, so he’s, like, evil, eh?

vlad martel on March 16, 2014 at 3:51 PM

Kim jong un is chuckling and calling Putin a picker for only getting 93% of the vote. Stalin used to get 125%. Now that’s how dictators hold “elections” . Next up occupy eastern Ukraine and hold same referendum, under gun point.

simkeith on March 16, 2014 at 3:51 PM

How many did Obammy get…I mean really get?

trs on March 16, 2014 at 3:47 PM

I believe the 2012 election was legitimate as Obama’s birth because he abused his power to suppress political opposition with the IRS.

ConstantineXI on March 16, 2014 at 3:51 PM

The Democrats have nothing on the Russians for vote fraud.

ConstantineXI on March 16, 2014 at 3:40 PM

I don’t know about that. Obama managed to get more than 100% in most of the Philly precincts.

Resist We Much on March 16, 2014 at 3:53 PM

The White House has officially rejected the results and the referendum itself, saying it occurred under duress:

Wrong. No one forced these people to go vote… to “flock” to the polls as was reported. With muslim-Tatars (12% of the population) abstaining from the vote 93% sounds about right.

Kaffa on March 16, 2014 at 3:53 PM

7% executed on location

Schadenfreude on March 16, 2014 at 3:57 PM

First Georgia, now Ukraine, Putin and the Soviets must think Obama and Kerry are a joke.

nazo311 on March 16, 2014 at 3:58 PM

LilliPutin is king of the world because the US has a lilliputian for president.

Schadenfreude on March 16, 2014 at 3:58 PM

Resist We Much on March 16, 2014 at 3:53 PM

Good Sophie, the Sunday Reflection thread needs your free-spirited tolerance comment. Search “proud Atheist” on page two.

So good that you are back!

Schadenfreude on March 16, 2014 at 4:01 PM

Oh, that’s right — Democracy is only teh awesome when it yields results we approve of…like installing puppet sharia regimes. Putin fought back hard against Chechnyan muslims, so he’s, like, evil, eh?

vlad martel on March 16, 2014 at 3:51 PM

Oh, so, you approved of the US installing puppet sharia regimes?!?!

Evidently so because you are using it as justification for Putin’s actions.

If you condemned the US’ actions, then you must do likewise with Putin otherwise you are a hypocrite or could it be that you just like bashing America? If America does it? Bad, bad, bad. If Putin, China, Iran, Cuba or anyone else – well, except for former Western colonial powers – does it? Awesome.

Resist We Much on March 16, 2014 at 4:04 PM

Putin probably used the Obama election team to get out the vote…

albill on March 16, 2014 at 4:04 PM

Oh, so, you approved of the US installing puppet sharia regimes?!?!

Resist We Much on March 16, 2014 at 4:04 PM

I’m against any sharia regimes – because it’s just stupid – but I’m 100% in favor of the US installing puppet regimes in countries where it serves our interests. The problem is not the installation of a puppet regime but the backer of that regime.

Of course, all discussions about what the US does or doesn’t do is academic, now, because the US no longer exists. I am against all puppet regimes that the A.S.S. would install because they would serve Barky’s interests, which are in direct opposition to any sort of Western interests, at all.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on March 16, 2014 at 4:11 PM

vlad martel on March 16, 2014 at 3:51 PM

May you NEVER be free.

Schadenfreude on March 16, 2014 at 4:12 PM

Putin probably used the Obama election team to get out the vote…

albill on March 16, 2014 at 4:04 PM

Putin just gave money to the Crimean ACORN for “lighting expenses”.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on March 16, 2014 at 4:12 PM

Morsi won in Egypt too.

Schadenfreude on March 16, 2014 at 4:13 PM

Oh, so, you approved of the US installing puppet sharia regimes?!?!

Resist We Much on March 16, 2014 at 4:04 PM

It’s hard to take these politicians seriously when they support the overthrow of the Egyptian leader in favor of the Muslim Brotherhood, they ignore the Irish and Dutch referendums to NOT join the EU, they are fine with Kosovo leaving Serbia, despite what the Serbian constitution say, but now they are outrageously outraged about all of these things over the Crimea.

sharrukin on March 16, 2014 at 4:13 PM

Oh, so, you approved of the US installing puppet sharia regimes?!?!

Evidently so because you are using it as justification for Putin’s actions.

If you condemned the US’ actions, then you must do likewise with Putin otherwise you are a hypocrite or could it be that you just like bashing America? If America does it? Bad, bad, bad. If Putin, China, Iran, Cuba or anyone else – well, except for former Western colonial powers – does it? Awesome.

Resist We Much on March 16, 2014 at 4:04 PM

Lol. Whatever, dude. Also, Putin hates gay people.

vlad martel on March 16, 2014 at 4:16 PM

So McCain’s cool again? Pretty pathetic to see you guys trying to puff yourself up over this. Sort of like ideological Viagra.

vlad martel on March 16, 2014 at 4:18 PM

Oh, that’s right — Democracy is only teh awesome when it yields results we approve of…like installing puppet sharia regimes. Putin fought back hard against Chechnyan muslims, so he’s, like, evil, eh?

vlad martel on March 16, 2014 at 3:51 PM

Lol. Whatever, dude. Also, Putin hates gay people.

vlad martel on March 16, 2014 at 4:16 PM

Why do you hate freedom, a free press, and gays, Vlad Martel?

DisneyFan on March 16, 2014 at 4:23 PM

sharrukin on March 16, 2014 at 4:13 PM

You ain’t just whistlin Dixie. ;)

oryguncon on March 16, 2014 at 4:24 PM

You ain’t just whistlin Dixie. ;)

oryguncon on March 16, 2014 at 4:24 PM

Listening to moral sermons from political prostitutes gets old real fast.

sharrukin on March 16, 2014 at 4:28 PM

He’s right, but it’s too late for that now. Putin has already taken his measure of the West. Expect the annexation to happen immediately — and then wait for the inevitable repeat in eastern Ukraine, too.

And yet what has the rat-eared wonder focused his time on concerning national security and foreign policy issues? Ramming through gays openly serving in the military, tieing ambassadorships to campaign cash, stupid jokes about reset buttons, burning down consulates in Libya, toppling governments in Egypt and bombing Syria, surrendering in Afghanisatan and Iraq, and gutting the military……..

Not a lot of room to live up to the moral obligation to Ukraine put forward in 1999.

Happy Nomad on March 16, 2014 at 4:30 PM

So McCain’s cool again? Pretty pathetic to see you guys trying to puff yourself up over this. Sort of like ideological Viagra.

vlad martel on March 16, 2014 at 4:18 PM

Wow! That’s some weapons grade trolling right there.

Happy Nomad on March 16, 2014 at 4:32 PM

The US is just trying to stay relevant and “keep it up” whilst the rest of the world moves on.

The referendum mustn’t be allowed to stand in their mind, because it makes the US look weak.

I maintain Crimea will have more democracy with Russia than under the EU and its imperial capitol in Brussels.

antisense on March 16, 2014 at 4:33 PM

Lol. Whatever, dude. Also, Putin hates gay people.

vlad martel on March 16, 2014 at 4:16 PM

Evidently, you do, too, since you are such a big Putin cheerleader.

Resist We Much on March 16, 2014 at 4:33 PM

Not a lot of room to live up to the moral obligation to Ukraine put forward in 1999.

Happy Nomad on March 16, 2014 at 4:30 PM

I flush my “moral obligations” in the morning, after coffee.

antisense on March 16, 2014 at 4:34 PM

They’ll march to the river. Split in two.

wolly4321 on March 16, 2014 at 4:35 PM

I maintain Crimea will have more democracy with Russia than under the EU and its imperial capitol in Brussels.

antisense on March 16, 2014 at 4:33 PM

The Crimean people think so too.

Kaffa on March 16, 2014 at 4:35 PM

So McCain’s cool again? Pretty pathetic to see you guys trying to puff yourself up over this. Sort of like ideological Viagra.

vlad martel on March 16, 2014 at 4:18 PM

LOLZ. From my own blog dated yesterday…

Drop Dead, Insane McVain!

Resist We Much on March 16, 2014 at 4:35 PM

So McCain’s cool again? Pretty pathetic to see you guys trying to puff yourself up over this. Sort of like ideological Viagra.

vlad martel on March 16, 2014 at 4:18 PM

I hope you aren’t making any sense.

Axe on March 16, 2014 at 4:37 PM

Ukrainian military fundraising.

http://www.rnbo.gov.ua/news/1619.html

Ukrainians now can send a text message to support their national army as a campaign has been launched by the new authorities in Kiev. A text message will charge a donor around $0.5, while the National Security Council’s website also lists several bank account numbers. Soon after President Viktor Yanukovich was ousted from his post by a coup, the treasury was proclaimed almost empty. A short promo movie supporting the campaign says 40,000 have been mobilized and require aid to keep up operational capabilities.

sharrukin on March 16, 2014 at 4:38 PM

So McCain’s cool again?

vlad martel on March 16, 2014 at 4:18 PM

From my own blog dated yesterday…

http://tinyurl.com/p7nbgph

Resist We Much on March 16, 2014 at 4:38 PM

WHADDYA MEAN “no one took this seriously”??

Ron Paul takes it seriously. He said “Crimea has the right to secede” even though it does NOT under the Ukrainian Constitution.

Putin’s paid-off bloggers also have been telling us that losing Crimea “is no big deal” because there are many “Russians” there. BALONEY – even the Russian speaking Ukrainians, including those in Crimea, aren’t stupid enough to prefer Putin’s authoritarian kleptocracy and despotism to the working, if fledgling, democracy of Ukraine seeking closer ties to the West and Europe. Don’t believe lying scum like David “Spengler” Goldman (if you ever did).

And Obama and Kerry and Powers and Rice all said Putin wouldn’t dare, up to the day he did dare. We’ve put the fate of the world and Europe in the hands of weak sisters.

And to those of low enough intelligence to believe what happens in Ukraine and Crimea doesn’t matter or doesn’t affect them, prepare to eat your words, dummies.

Adjoran on March 16, 2014 at 4:41 PM

the Crimean people think so too. Kaffa on March 16, 2014 at 4:35 PM

I’ve never voted with APC’s and masked armed men at the polls before.

wolly4321 on March 16, 2014 at 4:42 PM

vlad martel on March 16, 2014 at 4:18 PM

How did McCain get cool again? And what does Palin have to do with Crimea annexation?

– Are you just tossing potentially inflammatory phrases out for the sole purpose of having them answered?

Axe on March 16, 2014 at 4:42 PM

*rubs temples* –Says Putin, not Palin. Still says McCain being cool, though.

<– Going for food and water.

Axe on March 16, 2014 at 4:44 PM

I’ve never voted with APC’s and masked armed men at the polls before.

wolly4321 on March 16, 2014 at 4:42 PM

There are international observers in the Crimea and they aren’t reporting anything like that.

sharrukin on March 16, 2014 at 4:44 PM

93% is more honest than a Chicago election.

myiq2xu on March 16, 2014 at 3:36 PM

rob verdi on March 16, 2014 at 4:46 PM

Oh, so, you approved of the US installing puppet sharia regimes?!?!

Resist We Much on March 16, 2014 at 4:04 PM

It’s hard to take these politicians seriously when they support the overthrow of the Egyptian leader in favor of the Muslim Brotherhood, they ignore the Irish and Dutch referendums to NOT join the EU, they are fine with Kosovo leaving Serbia, despite what the Serbian constitution say, but now they are outrageously outraged about all of these things over the Crimea.

sharrukin on March 16, 2014 at 4:13 PM

Who was talking about the politicians? I asked Vlad a question.

I opposed the US’ invasion and occupation of Iraq. Likewise, I oppose Putin’s actions in the Ukraine.

It seems to me that I am one of the few that is being consistent here and not allowing some weird allegiance to Russia to cloud my judgement.

If the UK began to invade its former colonies on the pretext of ‘protecting ethnic Britons,’ I’d be outraged and embarrassed.

Even with regard to the Falkland Islands, the government has made it clear that it is would be more than willing to give the residents their independence (frankly because they’d rather spend the money on welfare programmes than any national defence – why do you think the Brits ran out of Tomahawk missiles three days into the Libyan misadventure?0. It’s 98% of the Falklanders that wish to remain part of the UK and want nothing whatsoever to do with Argentina.

Resist We Much on March 16, 2014 at 4:47 PM

I’ve never voted with APC’s and masked armed men at the polls before.

wolly4321 on March 16, 2014 at 4:42 PM

Where my people voted in Sevastopol they saw nothing like that. There was no interference with the vote.

Maybe you’re thinking of the Black Panthers here in the US?

Kaffa on March 16, 2014 at 4:47 PM

Amazing what a few tanks and armed soldiers can do to swing a vote, isn’t it?

Obama is taking notes.

Socratease on March 16, 2014 at 4:48 PM

If the UK began to invade its former colonies on the pretext of ‘protecting ethnic Britons,’ I’d be outraged and embarrassed.

It would probably be a major step up for a lot of those nations.

It’s 98% of the Falklanders that wish to remain part of the UK and want nothing whatsoever to do with Argentina.

Resist We Much on March 16, 2014 at 4:47 PM

So 98% is believable, but 93% isn’t?

Do you believe that the Crimea wants to remain part of the Ukraine?

sharrukin on March 16, 2014 at 4:54 PM

Back in 2009, I told a group of my former students over dinner that the election of a weak president had given the Russians an opening to make a big move. It did take a bit longer than I expected, though.

damage done on March 16, 2014 at 4:57 PM

At least Kim Jong-Un gets 100 percent.

John the Libertarian on March 16, 2014 at 4:57 PM

So 98% is believable, but 93% isn’t?

sharrukin on March 16, 2014 at 4:54 PM

What? You don’t believe the 98% and the 93% populations were under the same stress, do you?

*Offers chips*

Axe on March 16, 2014 at 4:58 PM

I’m with you Ed. It’s way too late now.

Cindy Munford on March 16, 2014 at 4:59 PM

Frankly, if Kiev wants to go the EU direction, is it surprising that Crimea would want to split and go the Russian direction?

Cipherprime on March 16, 2014 at 5:01 PM

You don’t believe the 98% and the 93% populations were under the same stress, do you?

I haven’t seen any evidence that anyone in the Crimea has been intimidated to vote one way or the other. Given how popular union with Russia is, why would Putin even bother to do that?

When he invades the eastern Ukraine you may see that sort of intimidation, but not in the Crimea so far.

*Offers chips*

Axe on March 16, 2014 at 4:58 PM

Thanks.

sharrukin on March 16, 2014 at 5:02 PM

Democrats and Obama himself fully support this method of Democracy with card check.

Skywise on March 16, 2014 at 5:02 PM

My dog, ‘Sparky’, would do a much more effective job running our foreign affairs and security than the Dog Eater who would just as soon eat him, were he given the chance…

bimmcorp on March 16, 2014 at 5:04 PM

Do you believe that the Crimea wants to remain part of the Ukraine?

sharrukin on March 16, 2014 at 4:54 PM

Evidently not, but it wasn’t up to Russia to intervene militarily. It should have been handled internally within the Ukraine. Ukrainians deserve the right to resolve their own political disputes and determine their future without a thug invading and occupying part of their country. There is no excuse for Russia’s actions even if one believes that all of the pro-Ukrainians are neo-Nazis, which of course, they are not.

Frankly, this isn’t about the Ukrainian people any more than Hitler’s rolling into countries was about the fate of the Sudeten Germans, ethnic Germans in Austria or Poland. You say the Crimeans don’t want to be part of the Ukraine. Fine. That was also said after Georgia in 2008. What assurances can you give us or the Baltic States or other former signatories to the Warsaw Pact that Putin won’t continue to invade in his effort to rebuild the Soviet Union because, at some point, the US and the UK would become involved.

So 98% is believable, but 93% isn’t?

Do you believe that the Crimea wants to remain part of the Ukraine?

Strange how no one had to put tanks on the ground to get that vote in the FI. You could literally interview everyone and ask them if they wanted to continue to be part of the UK. There aren’t that many and the difference is that the UK wouldn’t be that broken up if the FI declared its independence. On the other hand, Russia doesn’t want a truly independent Crimea. It either wants its puppets like ‘The Goblin’ in control or it wants the territory to become fully part of its country. That’s a big difference.

Resist We Much on March 16, 2014 at 5:07 PM

I haven’t seen any evidence that anyone in the Crimea has been intimidated to vote one way or the other.

sharrukin on March 16, 2014 at 5:02 PM

I can confirm that statement from people on the ground in Sevastopol.

Kaffa on March 16, 2014 at 5:09 PM

So McCain gets fired up when Russia steals a vote, but not when democrats do it. Interesting.

SouthernGent on March 16, 2014 at 5:11 PM

I don’t really think McCain is going to get anywhere at all trying to get Putin replaced. He would have a better chance of achieving his goals in Eqypt where he wants to bring Morsi and the Muslim Brotherhood back to power, and in Syria where he wants to bring those who want to genocide the Christians there to power.

VorDaj on March 16, 2014 at 5:12 PM

Diana West: “Much remains murky, but one piece of the Ukraine story whose facts seem within reach concerns the coup’s precipitous event: the shocking sniper attacks on people in the square in Kiev, which reached a bloody crescendo on Feb. 20, killing some 40 people out of the “heavenly hundred” who are believed to have died in all. Who is responsible?
Initial reports blamed the security forces of ousted President Viktor Yanukovych. Now, according to the Associated Press, the new authorities in Ukraine “have shifted their focus” from the Yanukovych government to Vladimir Putin’s Russia – “pursuing the theory,” AP continues, “that the Kremlin was intent on sowing mayhem as a pretext for military incursion.” Meanwhile, Russia, the AP reports, believes “the snipers were organized by opposition leaders trying to whip up local and international outrage against the government.”
Russia’s argument is bolstered by an extraordinary “intercepted” phone conversation. In the call, Estonian Foreign Minister Urmas Paet describes evidence from Olga Bogomolets, a noted Ukrainian physician-activist, to EU Foreign Minister Catherine Ashton. It suggests the same snipers were killing people from both sides – policemen and protestors alike. The new government’s health minister, Oleh Musiy, said much the same thing to the AP, which adds “that the similarity of bullet wounds suffered by opposition victims and police indicates the shooters were trying to stoke tensions on both sides and spark even greater violence with the goal of toppling Yanukovych.”
Estonia’s Paet continued, conveying his belief to the EU’s Ashton: “There is now stronger and stronger understanding that behind the snipers … it was not Yanukovych but it was somebody from the new coalition.” In other words, some faction associated with the new government the U.S. and the EU are supporting. Estonia has since authenticated the call.
The cold-bloodedness of whatever party is behind such a bloody calculation is chilling, even as the question of responsibility has hot political ramifications. When it comes to spending billions to promote “European values” (another buzzword) – let alone “freedom,” “democracy” and “rule of law” – a non-partial investigation into these events becomes essential. Buzzwords, meanwhile, are no substitute for the truth.”

VorDaj on March 16, 2014 at 5:15 PM

Vladimir Bukovsky has likened the EU ruling class [unelected and unaccountable leftist 'intelligentsia' and bureaucrats] to that of the old Soviet Politburo. So if the Ukraine were to become part of the EU, would they be better off than if they became part of Russia? If I were Ukrainian, I don’t think I would want to be part of either even if it meant being poorer.

“Mr Verhofstadt and Van Baalen [Members of European Parliament] went to Kiev. They wanted to make history. There they stood in a square full of people, including National Socialists, Jew-haters and other anti-democrats. People with helmets and baseball bats. They went where the revolutionaries hang out. On stage they tried to stir up the mob even more.

Mr Verhofstadt spoke in no uncertain terms. He talked about a fight, a fight. That is what Brussels supports. And with money. The leader of the VVD [Party for Freedom and Progress], Mr Van Baalen, stood beside him cheering, clenched fists held high.

Shame on them. These shameless Europhiles and their dreams of empire.

Now we have always been told that the EU stands for peace. But now that these two characters have appeared on stage, we know better. The EU stands for war provocation.”

- Geert Wilders

Text of Geert Wilders’ speech in Ukraine debate

VorDaj on March 16, 2014 at 5:16 PM

McCain Heads to Ukraine with Seven Other Senators; Let’s Hope They All Stay

“Here’s the question of the day: What can senators John McCain (R-Az), Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), John Barrasso (R-Wyo.), John Hoeven (R-N.D.), Ron Johnson (R-Wis.), Chris Murphy (D-Conn.), Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.) and Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.) do for Ukraine?

The answer of course is simple: Nothing.

So, why is that group of eight senators wasting money going there? The only possible answer is some combination of arrogance, political foolishness, and support for warmongering.

Actually, I am all in favor of sending McCain, Durbin, and the rest to Ukraine, provided they stay there.

I will even do a fundraiser on this blog to pay for it. Should insufficient money come in, I would pay for the tickets myself.”

VorDaj on March 16, 2014 at 5:17 PM

Why not 100 and eleventy percent? Did someone poll 93 as the tipping beyond beyond which people might not…believe the results?

LOLOLOLOL

Rational Thought on March 16, 2014 at 5:18 PM

Where is Obama today? Choomin’ with his Cheeto’s or whut.

/

Key West Reader on March 16, 2014 at 5:23 PM

Enviormentalists are dictating our foreign policy. If we don’t export fossil fuels, we have no leverage. Barry would rather have their campaign donations than take care of national interests. I don’t think he givews a rip, one way or another, about the climate change ideology, but he sure does like their cash.

butch on March 16, 2014 at 5:23 PM

So McCain gets fired up when Russia steals a vote, but not when democrats do it. Interesting.

SouthernGent on March 16, 2014 at 5:11 PM

That’s because McCain is a Democrat. So is his girlfriend Lindsey Graham.

/Duh.

Key West Reader on March 16, 2014 at 5:26 PM

“Here’s the question of the day: What can senators John McCain (R-Az), Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), John Barrasso (R-Wyo.), John Hoeven (R-N.D.), Ron Johnson (R-Wis.), Chris Murphy (D-Conn.), Jeff Flake (R-Ariz.) and Sheldon Whitehouse (D-R.I.) do for Ukraine?

VorDaj on March 16, 2014 at 5:17 PM

All the new government in Kiev has to do is kill a US Senator and blame it on Russia. This would start the arms and money flowing from the US and possibly start a war with Russia.

The Nazis in Kiev are certainly not above taking out a senator or two. A very dangerous situation created by politicians to stroke their own egos.

Kaffa on March 16, 2014 at 5:26 PM

Evidently not, but it wasn’t up to Russia to intervene militarily. It should have been handled internally within the Ukraine. Ukrainians deserve the right to resolve their own political disputes and determine their future without a thug invading and occupying part of their country. There is no excuse for Russia’s actions even if one believes that all of the pro-Ukrainians are neo-Nazis, which of course, they are not.

Does that apply to Kosovo and Bosnia as well? If there is no excuse for Putin then why is there an excuse for Kosovo, Libya, Egypt, Bosnia, etc?

And Putin doesn’t need an excuse, he just needs the power which he has. The moral posturing of the western politicians is absurd given their history.

What assurances can you give us or the Baltic States or other former signatories to the Warsaw Pact that Putin won’t continue to invade in his effort to rebuild the Soviet Union because, at some point, the US and the UK would become involved.

Resist We Much on March 16, 2014 at 5:07 PM

That may happen, but in the real world there is a limit to any nations power. The morality of a thing is secondary to the ability to actually do anything about it. Trying to push western influence into Asia without any military force to back it up is simply insane. There are people talking about extending NATO even beyond Georgia into Central Asia while reducing military spending as frantically as they can. There is nothing rational about this sort of behavior.

If Putin rolls into Central Asia, the Ukraine and the Baltics, there is very little we can do to stop him. NATO should never have been extended to some of those nations given the reality on the ground. The EU is on the brink of economic chaos and the US ain’t far behind.

I think we need to acknowledge reality.

If there are signs that Putin has designs beyond those regions then yes, we should fight but until there is realistic evidence to that effect, it should be left alone.

Strange how no one had to put tanks on the ground to get that vote in the FI.

Actually they did have to put tanks on the ground to drive the Argentinians out, and if they hadn’t there wouldn’t have been an opportunity for any vote.

On the other hand, Russia doesn’t want a truly independent Crimea. It either wants its puppets like ‘The Goblin’ in control or it wants the territory to become fully part of its country. That’s a big difference.

Resist We Much on March 16, 2014 at 5:07 PM

True that Russia wants the Crimea but the Crimea also wants Russia. I am not suggesting that the Falklands is akin to the Crimea, but the people of both regions want to be part of their ethnic nation.

sharrukin on March 16, 2014 at 5:28 PM

John McCain threw his election in order to give Obama the Presidency. Now he wants to complain about the man? Grow Up McCain, he is there to fail because you were not willing to fight to win for America. Not only that, but as the scumbag that you are, you deliberately threw Palin under the bus and took a few turns of backing up and driving over her.
You effectively lost every moral position to complain about Obama when you uttered the words, “a decent person and a person you do not have to be scared of as president of the United States.”

astonerii on March 16, 2014 at 5:32 PM

elections have consequences

Wade on March 16, 2014 at 5:37 PM

Does that apply to Kosovo and Bosnia as well? If there is no excuse for Putin then why is there an excuse for Kosovo, Libya, Egypt, Bosnia, etc?

You assume facts not in evidence, luv. I am on the record repeatedly saying that I believe the US played a proper role in exactly one war in the last century and it was attacked by Japan and had war declared upon it by Germany first.

That may happen, but in the real world there is a limit to any nations power. The morality of a thing is secondary to the ability to actually do anything about it. Trying to push western influence into Asia without any military force to back it up is simply insane. There are people talking about extending NATO even beyond Georgia into Central Asia while reducing military spending as frantically as they can. There is nothing rational about this sort of behavior.

If Putin rolls into Central Asia, the Ukraine and the Baltics, there is very little we can do to stop him. NATO should never have been extended to some of those nations given the reality on the ground. The EU is on the brink of economic chaos and the US ain’t far behind.

I think we need to acknowledge reality.

All true, but at some point, just as in WWII, we would become involved. That is reality.

Actually they did have to put tanks on the ground to drive the Argentinians out, and if they hadn’t there wouldn’t have been an opportunity for any vote.

The Falklands War was 2 decades ago and I am referring to a referendum that occurred two years ago. If Russia is playing Argentina’s role in the scenario, then it is the aggressor.

True that Russia wants the Crimea but the Crimea also wants Russia. I am not suggesting that the Falklands is akin to the Crimea, but the people of both regions want to be part of their ethnic nation.

It’s weird how the Crimeans didn’t really agitate for returning to Russia when they were being ruled by corrupt regimes that stole from them and aligned themselves with Putin. I don’t know. Perhaps, they just love to live under the thumbs of thugs, who live opulently at their expense.

Resist We Much on March 16, 2014 at 5:38 PM

I can confirm that statement from people on the ground in Sevastopol.

Kaffa on March 16, 2014 at 5:09 PM

I think a lot of this is just hysteria and the emotional comfort of returning to the old Soviet-NATO standoff. Things were a lot simpler then.

sharrukin on March 16, 2014 at 5:38 PM

vlad martel on March 16, 2014 at 3:51 PM

Didn’t know you had an account to comment here. Love your blog!!! ; )

Bmore on March 16, 2014 at 5:46 PM

I don’t know. Perhaps, they just love to live under the thumbs of thugs, who live opulently at their expense.

Resist We Much on March 16, 2014 at 5:38 PM

That’s just sad. What choice do you think these poor people have?

This is not a choice between a free and democratic state vs some communist dictatorship. For the people it is a choice between a corrupt Ukrainian government and corrupt Russian government. At least with the Russians they speak the same language and share the same heritage.

Kaffa on March 16, 2014 at 5:47 PM

I think a lot of this is just hysteria and the emotional comfort of returning to the old Soviet-NATO standoff. Things were a lot simpler then.

sharrukin on March 16, 2014 at 5:38 PM

I’m not the one celebrating by carrying a photograph of Stalin and a Soviet flag and I certainly don’t find any emotional comfort in the tens of millions who were killed by their own leaders.

Resist We Much on March 16, 2014 at 5:48 PM

And the Democratic world becomes even smaller during the reign of Emperor Barry “The Pansy” Obama.

Dusty on March 16, 2014 at 5:52 PM

Kaffa on March 16, 2014 at 5:47 PM

No, it’s a choice. The Founders could have chosen to remain under the yoke of George III.

I didn’t say it would be easy, but it is a choice.

Resist We Much on March 16, 2014 at 5:53 PM

It’s weird how the Crimeans didn’t really agitate for returning to Russia when they were being ruled by corrupt regimes that stole from them and aligned themselves with Putin.

Resist We Much on March 16, 2014 at 5:38 PM

Its weird how little information is available in what is laughingly called a “free press”.

http://www.refworld.org/docid/469f38ec2.html

Sep 1990 The Crimean Supreme Soviet calls upon the Supreme Soviets of the Soviet Union and Russian SFSR to nullify the decisions to strip Crimea of its autonomous status.

Jan 20, 1991 A referendum is held in the Crimea on restoring autonomy to the region. Over 80% of the electorate participates, of which 93.26% supported the “restoration of the Crimean ASSR as a subject of the USSR and as a party to the Union Treaty.”

Dec 1, 1991 A referendum is held in the Ukraine on independence simultaneously with presidential elections. Leonid Kravchuk is elected the first president of the Ukraine, and the independence of the Ukraine is supported by the referendum. However, Crimean support for Ukrainian independence was the lowest of all of the Ukraine (only 54% in favor) with very low turnout (65%). Support not only for Russia, but for the Soviet Union, is extremely high in Crimea as much of the population is related to the Soviet military and the Black Sea Fleet.

Feb 26, 1992 The Crimean parliament changes the name of the region from the Crimean ASSR to the Crimean Republic.

May 5, 1992 Crimea’s parliament declares total independence subject to approval in a referendum to be held in August 1992.

May 13, 1992 The Ukrainian parliament declares the Crimean parliament’s independence declaration unconstitutional and gives them until May 20 to rescind it. They also give President Kravchuk the power to use all necessary means to halt Crimean independence.

Jan 20, 1994 Kiev’s parliament votes to allow the president to nullify any acts by either central agencies or Crimean authorities which violate the constitution.

Feb 24, 1994 The Ukrainian parliament finds that Crimea did not have the right to have independent defense and monetary policies and they rejected the idea of a separate Crimean citizenship. They also placed a deadline on the Crimean parliament to get Crimean law into line with Ukrainian. Bahrov denounces the resolution by the Ukrainian parliament in a meeting with Kravchuk and Ukrainian Supreme Soviet chairman.

Mar 27, 1994 The Crimea holds the referendum 1.3 million voted, 78.4% of whom supported greater autonomy from Ukraine, 82.8% supported allowing dual Russian-Ukrainian citizenship, and 77.9% favored giving Crimean presidential decrees the force of law. The first round of both Crimean and Ukrainian elections also take place. In the Crimea, the Rossiya bloc gets 67% of the vote, the Communist Party 11%, and the Party of Economic Rebirth 7%.

Apr 1994 Crimean President Meshkov removes the chief of internal affairs ministry (the police) who was appointed by Kiev and replaces him with a Crimean, Valerii Kuznetsov. The situation becomes decidedly heated as both sides issue threats and counter-threats. General Kuznetsov declares on Rossiya Radio that Crimea is in essence Russian and will be a part of Russia.

May 1, 1995 About 4000 people marked May Day in Simferopol shouting slogans upholding Crimea’s right to independence and condemning Ukraine’s efforts to crush Crimean separatism.

Feb 4, 1998 The Crimean parliament voted overwhelmingly to put a proposed referendum on the peninsula on its agenda. The referendum was to include questions of whether inhabitants would like to return to Russian jurisdiction, to restore the provisions of the less restrictive 1992 Crimean constitution, and to adopt Russian as the area’s official language. The referendum decision was prompted in part by the events in Yalta. (Deutsche Presse-Agentur 2/4/98)

Feb 24, 1998 Surveys conducted by the Kiev Center of Political Research and Conflict Resolution revealed that 31% of all inhabitants of Ukraine considered themselves to some extent Russian including 11.5% who claimed to be Russian; 5% more Russian than Ukrainian, and 14.5% equally Russian and Ukrainian. The surveys also indicated that 55% of all inhabitants of Ukraine preferred Russian as their everyday language. (What The Papers Say 2/24/98) The parliament of the Crimean peninsula agreed to hold its elections simultaneously with the elections of the Ukrainian parliament on March 29, ending a week-long tug-of-war between the peninsula and central power in Kiev. President Kuchma had threatened to call a state of emergency if the parliament did not agree to simultaneous elections. In addition, on February 22, the Ukrainian Justice Ministry had declared that the September election date proposed by the Crimean parliament would illegally extend the rule of the current parliament past its maximum four years. (Deutsche Presse-Agentur 2/24/98 and British Broadcasting Corporation 2/24/98)

sharrukin on March 16, 2014 at 5:54 PM

sharrukin on March 16, 2014 at 5:54 PM

I was talking about over the last 3 months since the uprising began.

Resist We Much on March 16, 2014 at 5:55 PM

All other leaders in the world know that Obama is a POS joke, and they will walk all over him, yet upstanding American citizens will not stand up for themselves, nor for the sake of the country.

F_This on March 16, 2014 at 5:56 PM

…and before that…after the Orange Revolution.

Resist We Much on March 16, 2014 at 5:56 PM

I’m not the one celebrating by carrying a photograph of Stalin and a Soviet flag and I certainly don’t find any emotional comfort in the tens of millions who were killed by their own leaders.

Resist We Much on March 16, 2014 at 5:48 PM

And in Kiev they march under the Swastika.

sharrukin on March 16, 2014 at 5:59 PM

Why do you hate freedom, a free press, and gays, Vlad Martel?

DisneyFan on March 16, 2014 at 4:23 PM

There aren’t many countries with a free press – including the United States.

bw222 on March 16, 2014 at 6:01 PM

sharrukin on March 16, 2014 at 5:54 PM

Good history lesson. Thanks.

Kaffa on March 16, 2014 at 6:03 PM

And in Kiev they march under the Swastika.

sharrukin on March 16, 2014 at 5:59 PM

Er, the Nazis weren’t part of the Cold War and that was your point. ‘Memba?

Don’t worry, sharry. I get it. Everyone in Kiev is a Nazi and the poor people of Crimea are ever so thankful that Putin sent in his military so that he could ‘protect them’ from the bogeyman and welcome them back into the bosom of the Motherland.

Judging from this, it appears that Putin’s Propaganda department is relishing returning to the ‘emotional comfort’ of the Cold War.

Russian State TV Says Russia Could Turn America Into “Radioactive Ash”…

I can’t wait for Putin to invade the next country and we can hear how great and powerful he is from the Putinbots.

Resist We Much on March 16, 2014 at 6:09 PM

Good history lesson. Thanks.

Kaffa on March 16, 2014 at 6:03 PM

Its been simmering for decades. The Ukraine is really three or four nations depending on how you define such things. West Ukraine (Lvov region), Central Ukraine (Ukraine proper), and the Russian East Ukraine. Crimea is a seperate issue from the others.

sharrukin on March 16, 2014 at 6:10 PM

And in Kiev they march under the Swastika.

[sharrukin on March 16, 2014 at 5:59 PM]

I’m not sure what you point is. Was the picture taken early on, say 1939-40? Hitler’s bad reputation came from his later activities. Sure his rhetoric presaged his later activities but who would you be inclined to support in 1939, a guy who had risen to the top bashing communists or the regime that six years prior had starved 3 million of your people to death?

Dusty on March 16, 2014 at 6:11 PM

Er, the Nazis weren’t part of the Cold War and that was your point. ‘Memba?

Resist We Much on March 16, 2014 at 6:09 PM

There are people on both sides who are marching around with nasty links to the past. You want to bring the Communists in the east front and center and ignore the Nazis in Kiev.

sharrukin on March 16, 2014 at 6:12 PM

There are people on both sides who are marching around with nasty links to the past. You want to bring the Communists in the east front and center and ignore the Nazis in Kiev.

sharrukin on March 16, 2014 at 6:12 PM

No, I want to speak of the COLD WAR, which began under Stalin, because YOU brought it up.

Resist We Much on March 16, 2014 at 6:19 PM

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