Reuters: Radar data suggests that the missing Malaysian jet was flown far off course deliberately

posted at 11:21 am on March 14, 2014 by Allahpundit

One theory that’s been kicking around the Internet is that the crew and passengers fell victim to a Payne Stewart situation. The cabin depressurized, everyone blacked out, and the plane continued on blindly via autopilot until it ran out of fuel and crashed. It’s a horrible accident, not foul play.

So much for that theory.

Analysis of the Malaysia data suggests the plane, with 239 people on board, diverted from its intended northeast route from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing and flew west instead, using airline flight corridors normally employed for routes to the Middle East and Europe, said sources familiar with investigations into the Boeing 777′s disappearance.

Two sources said an unidentified aircraft that investigators believe was Flight MH370 was following a route between navigational waypoints when it was last plotted on military radar off the country’s northwest coast.

This indicates that it was either being flown by the pilots or someone with knowledge of those waypoints, the sources said…

“What we can say is we are looking at sabotage, with hijack still on the cards,” said that source, a senior Malaysian police official.

If the plane was on autopilot, presumably it would have continued on in a roughly northeastern direction towards its destination in Beijing. Instead, it made a hard left — and then, somehow, it stayed on the aerial “road” (i.e. between the waypoints) instead of veering off randomly. Imagine blacking out behind the wheel on cruise control and the car not only turning but then staying in its lane on the highway for hundreds of miles. Assuming the sources are right, someone had to have been steering.

More evidence of deliberate action:

Two U.S. officials tell ABC News the U.S. believes that the shutdown of two communication systems happened separately on Malaysia Airlines Flight 370. One source said this indicates the plane did not come out of the sky because of a catastrophic failure.

The data reporting system, they believe, was shut down at 1:07 a.m. The transponder — which transmits location and altitude — shut down at 1:21 a.m…

That means the U.S. team “is convinced that there was manual intervention,” a source said, which means it was likely not an accident or catastrophic malfunction that took the plane out of the sky.

Obvious question: If this was some sort of suicide mission, either by one of the pilots or a hijacker, why bother shutting down the data systems? Why, for that matter, bother flying west at all? Just take the plane down and be done with it.

A new theory based on the “pings” the plane sent while flying west towards the Indian Ocean was that it was headed towards the Andaman Islands. In that case, though, where would it land? The editor of the islands’ newspaper says there’s no way a 777 could show up at the local airport without attracting notice. And if this is a hijacking, how come there’s been no information after a week about possible suspects onboard? The two Iranians with stolen passports were mentioned early but counterterror officials dismissed them quickly. Usually after a hijacking, authorities are able to deduce fairly quickly who the likely suspects are from the passenger manifest and interviews with friends and family. Not this time. Was it a lone wolf who left few red flags or do they have a lead and are keeping quiet about it for now until they have better evidence?

One more mystery. If the plane was in the Indian Ocean headed west, why was there a “seismic event” in the ocean south of Vietnam, not far from the jet’s last known location, on the night it disappeared?

The signal detected by two stations in Malaysia appeared to indicate that a small tremor occurred on the floor of the sea at 2:55 a.m. about 95 miles south of Vietnam, the scientists said in a statement posted on the website of the University of Science and Technology of China.

“It was a non-seismic zone, therefore judging from the time and location of the event, it might be related to the missing MH370 flight,” said the statement. “If it was indeed an airplane crashing into the sea, the seismic wave strength indicated that the crash process was catastrophic.”

The area where the tremor was detected about 70 miles from where the Boeing 777 was last heard from, and 85 minutes after the jet carrying 239 people lost contact, according to South China Morning Post newspaper.

Must be a coincidence. Seems fairly solid at this point that satellites were being pinged by the plane hundreds of miles west of that location. The timeline doesn’t make sense either; surely the plane would have covered more than 70 miles in 85 minutes after it went quiet.

If this really is terrorism, though, why has there been no chatter? Gen. Tom McInerney casually wondered this morning on Fox News whether maybe jihadis targeted the plane because they need a delivery mechanism for, er, a nuclear weapon. I’m thinking there must be better ways to quietly procure a plane, though, than by kicking off a global manhunt for a missing jumbo jet.

Any theories on all this, “Ancient Aliens” guy?

aa

Update: Here’s a charming theory forwarded from a friend. Sleep tight, America.

My wife has been saying for a week that terrorists landed it in an obscure airport and are loading it up with uranium to detonate over a large city.

How much uranium could they possibly have to require a 777 to disperse it?

Update: My friend replies that they might not need a jumbo jet for its size but rather for its range. If you’re looking to hit a target in Israel or Europe and you’re starting in Malaysia, you need a plane that can fly long distances. In that case, though, why have they waited a week to get the jet back up in the air? If you’re going to do something like this, where you land a jet, load it up with something, and then aim it at a target, you need to work quickly before western intel figures out what’s happening. The alleged terrorists here have waited a week. Doesn’t add up.


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The plane is likely hidden in some underground bunker in the Middle East, being re-painted and prepared for use in a future attack.

Pork-Chop on March 14, 2014 at 12:30 PM

The U.S. Navy shot down an Iranian airliner by mistake back in the 80′s.

myiq2xu on March 14, 2014 at 12:21 PM

That was different. The USS Vincennes was in a hostile situation (gunboat attack) and thought that the aircraft was an incoming threat. The USS Stark’s commanding officer had just been taken to task for being too lax. Capt. Rogers wasn’t going to make the same mistake.

Happy Nomad on March 14, 2014 at 12:30 PM

You guys are so naive. Obviously ALLAHPUNDIT did it, and he is posting this from the plane to throw people off the scent.

WhatSlushfund on March 14, 2014 at 12:30 PM

Iran could care less if this is traced back to them.

Especially if they can take out Israel while playing Obama and Lurch for the fools they are and then would ask what the consequences would be “Monday.”

viking01 on March 14, 2014 at 12:33 PM

If it was hijacked for later use I would think the landing strip would have to be around 5,000 ft minimum,hard surfaced and at sea level. This is not for bush landings and takes a lot of fuel. Without it being at a fueling location trucking it in would take a fuel truck certified for aviation fuel or you just might not get off the runway from contamination. Limited locations to land and refuel.

CW20 on March 14, 2014 at 12:34 PM

All I know is that we will know when we know. I shall wait and see.

HonestLib on March 14, 2014 at 11:28 AM

Why you are an honest lib. Another one, in HA, blamed Boeing in instant one. I cautioned it then to wait and see.

Schadenfreude on March 14, 2014 at 12:36 PM

The Norks are mighty close.

————–

We might never know what happened.

Schadenfreude on March 14, 2014 at 12:37 PM

If it was hijacked for later use I would think the landing strip would have to be around 5,000 ft minimum,hard surfaced and at sea level. This is not for bush landings and takes a lot of fuel. Without it being at a fueling location trucking it in would take a fuel truck certified for aviation fuel or you just might not get off the runway from contamination. Limited locations to land and refuel.

CW20 on March 14, 2014 at 12:34 PM

It makes little sense if it were hijacked for later use. There are too many infrastructure and maintenance requirements. That would imply a state-actor involved and it would be far easier to buy a used aircraft than to hijack one.

Happy Nomad on March 14, 2014 at 12:38 PM

The U.S. Navy shot down an Iranian airliner by mistake back in the 80′s.

myiq2xu on March 14, 2014 at 12:21 PM

myiq2xu:

The IranianGoons F-14 Fighter Jets were taking off from
there Civilian Airport, sqauwking the same code as the
airliner!!
==============

This isn’t the best Documentry:

Shooting down of Iran Air 655 Pt 1 of 3)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sc9Bj9sWyFA

canopfor on March 14, 2014 at 12:38 PM

ted c on March 14, 2014 at 12:19 PM

In that scenario, I agree.

My own guess is that this was an attempted hijacking that failed. The jet crashed into the sea at tremendous speed and is probably buried deep in the sea floor. Remember the Shanksville site—nothing but a crater, with barely a trace of the plane remaining.

But we’ll find it, sooner or later.

IrishEi on March 14, 2014 at 12:38 PM

But we’ll find it, sooner or later.

IrishEi on March 14, 2014 at 12:38 PM

In that scenario there would be plenty of debris to float and be seen or wash ashore somewhere — as you said, sooner or later.

db on March 14, 2014 at 12:41 PM

That plane also had 3 Americans on board – 2 of them children.

Flora Duh on March 14, 2014 at 12:30 PM

Flora Duh:Correct,…and Two Canadians:)

canopfor on March 14, 2014 at 12:43 PM

Seems like a failed hijack attempt, another Flight 93 in which passengers stormed the cockpit and the hijackers ditched the plane somewhere in the ocean or in a remote land location. The two Iranians are obviously the key suspects, but there were afew “Mohammeds” on the plane too.

It’s somewhat plausible that the plane did land somewhere and the passengers have been killed, but very unlikely. But after 9/11, who knows? We know these terrorists have long been obsessed with using big airplanes as weapons and we should be thinking outside the box as to what could have been done with this one. Killing 229 people is nothing to these bastards. They could have set off sarin gas while using gas masks on themselves and killed everyone quickly before landing the plane.

rockmom on March 14, 2014 at 12:45 PM

That plane also had 3 Americans on board – 2 of them children.

Flora Duh on March 14, 2014 at 12:30 PM

Flora Duh:Correct,…and Two Canadians:)

canopfor on March 14, 2014 at 12:43 PM

“Our” feral government would have no problem shooting down Americans. it’s the poor, widdle third-worlders who would give them pause, Barky and his junta would shoot down a plane full of Americans and laugh about it. it wouldn’t be much more than Benghazi to them. But, if a bunch of alien muzzies happened to be on board … that plane wouldn’t be touched.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on March 14, 2014 at 12:46 PM

in which passengers stormed the cockpit and the hijackers ditched the plane

Or maybe the passengers stormed the cockpit, subdued the hijackers, but nobody could fly the plane (and the hijackers had destroyed the radios).

db on March 14, 2014 at 12:47 PM

CW20 on March 14, 2014 at 12:34 PM

Which has me wondering that if it stayed on course would Cam Ranh Bay (10,000ft x 2) or Da Nang airfields (10,000ft x 1) be usable?

I don’t know the Hainan airfield runway length which the ChiComs used when they hijacked & forced the landing of our recon plane back in 2001.

viking01 on March 14, 2014 at 12:48 PM

I think this is a plane heist, maybe the first ever. That plane is being gutted and having any identifiable marks or electronics replaced right now. All of the passengers are either prisoners or dead. Gotta be worth tens or hundreds of millions of dollars.

thphilli on March 14, 2014 at 12:50 PM

In that scenario there would be plenty of debris to float and be seen or wash ashore somewhere — as you said, sooner or later.

db on March 14, 2014 at 12:41 PM

Which makes it all the more suspicious that debris hasn’t been spotted in the many busy shipping lanes and commercial fishing areas of the region already.

viking01 on March 14, 2014 at 12:50 PM

ppy Nomad on March 14, 2014 at 12:30 PM

Recovered bodies were all nude. It was a set up.

wolly4321 on March 14, 2014 at 12:50 PM

While assets and effort are being used to find this aircraft, is another terrorist action going to slip by unnoticed until it happens? Like the 24 episode where the terrorists’ execution of SecDef is to be on the web and so many are online to watch that an effort to break into the nuclear power grid computer control is not noticed.

xkaydet65 on March 14, 2014 at 11:36 AM

Someone previously posted a link to that Al Qaeda plot where they were planning to kill the Pope in the Phillipines but that was only the distraction for the hijacking of many planes simultaneously.

redeye on March 14, 2014 at 12:51 PM

It makes little sense if it were hijacked for later use. There are too many infrastructure and maintenance requirements. That would imply a state-actor involved and it would be far easier to buy a used aircraft than to hijack one.

Happy Nomad on March 14, 2014 at 12:38 PM

Buying a used jumbo with the range / payload capabilities offers it’s own set of risks if a state-actor wanted to preserve deniability – particularly tracking the financial aspects of such a transaction even if dummy / cut-out corporations are used.

What’s interesting on the hijack front is that there are reportedly no increased radio chatter or credible claims of responsibility. There’s also been no mention of hostages / requests for ransom. This seems to me to point to, in the event of a hijacking, some state-actor being involved or knowledgeable.

This could be a dress rehearsal for something to come later – to gauge how effective the tracking of an aircraft can be once communications and transponders are manually terminated.

One thought – how well known is it that the engines and other components on 777 and other newer model jumbos would maintain data links with satellites after usual communication links are manually shut-down? Could this be the weak link in the plan?

Athos on March 14, 2014 at 12:51 PM

…Harry Reid…”It’s a Lie!”

KOOLAID2 on March 14, 2014 at 12:52 PM

Obvious question: If this was some sort of suicide mission, either by one of the pilots or a hijacker, why bother shutting down the data systems? Why, for that matter, bother flying west at all? Just take the plane down and be done with it.

9/11 was a “suicide mission”…and once those planes were hijacked, they made a bee-line to their targets. If this Malaysian plane were hijacked for a similar reason, with a target in mind, it too would have been diverted and flown straight towards that target.

Maybe the passengers pulled their own “United 93″ and fought together to overtake the hijacker(s) and force the plane down on open water. Or the hijackers inadvertently lost control of the aircraft. That, of course, if indeed this flight was hijacked at all.

JetBoy on March 14, 2014 at 12:53 PM

Which makes it all the more suspicious that debris hasn’t been spotted in the many busy shipping lanes and commercial fishing areas of the region already.

viking01 on March 14, 2014 at 12:50 PM

Patience, grasshopper.

db on March 14, 2014 at 12:55 PM

What else of value, besides the plane and the passengers, is onboard that thing? Was it hijacked for the cargo? for the jet? for the passengers?

ted c on March 14, 2014 at 12:56 PM

It’s like what happened in the short-lived NBC series called “The Event” from a few years back.

Bravesbill on March 14, 2014 at 12:57 PM

The ‘seismic event’ does not work as a causal signal, from an earthquake energy release perspective. The mass and velocity of a plane impacting dry land might, under perfect circumstances, be recorded and identified by local earthquake seismometers. If the plane hits water first and slows down….no way.

Identifying nuclear explosions already tests the limit of seismology.

percysunshine on March 14, 2014 at 12:58 PM

Was one of the pilots pulling a DB Cooper?
Were there any parachutes onboard?
If the transponders were off, then the plane could’ve flown lower and slower and gotten below 12K feet and someone could’ve jumped without oxygen and parachuted to a boat or onto land….

weird.

ted c on March 14, 2014 at 12:58 PM

I don’t know the Hainan airfield runway length which the ChiComs used when they hijacked & forced the landing of our recon plane back in 2001.

viking01 on March 14, 2014 at 12:48 PM

Being a popular tourist destination there are also at least two civilian airports on Hainan with runways of sufficient length to accommodate a 777. But why would China do such a thing with most of the passengers being their own citizens?

DarkCurrent on March 14, 2014 at 1:00 PM

One thought – how well known is it that the engines and other components on 777 and other newer model jumbos would maintain data links with satellites after usual communication links are manually shut-down? Could this be the weak link in the plan?

Athos on March 14, 2014 at 12:51 PM

That seems to be a pretty well known feature.

But more importantly, why turn off the transponders? Why, if a mechanical emergency, no radio traffic or Mayday? There is no way that all the questions being raised are going to be answered.

Happy Nomad on March 14, 2014 at 1:00 PM

viking01 on March 14, 2014 at 12:50 PM

Patience, grasshopper.

db on March 14, 2014 at 12:55 PM

I’m in no hurry but the many cargo ships having cris-crossed the region since the disappearance would be.

I would also be surprised if some ships’ radars hadn’t detected falling debris should that have occurred.

viking01 on March 14, 2014 at 1:02 PM

But why would China do such a thing with most of the passengers being their own citizens?

DarkCurrent on March 14, 2014 at 1:00 PM

That is the big question.

Was there some person, group or something on that plane worth their while to make disappear?

viking01 on March 14, 2014 at 1:04 PM

OT:WTF!

Avast mistake: Royal Navy fire 9ft torpedo from warship into dockyard which houses NUCLEAR submarines
HMS Argyll was taking part in a training drill at Devonport base in Devon
The 45kg projectile flew 200 yards through the air and hit a metal container
The base is used to refuel and repair Britain’s nuclear submarines

Murphy9 on March 14, 2014 at 1:05 PM

That is the big question.

Was there some person, group or something on that plane worth their while to make disappear?

viking01 on March 14, 2014 at 1:04 PM

If there were, why couldn’t they just round them up when they reached Beijing?

DarkCurrent on March 14, 2014 at 1:06 PM

Strange, isn’t it, that the WH and dear leader have been silent on this event.

Kissmygrits on March 14, 2014 at 1:08 PM

Headed to Diego Garcia?
Headed to Delhi?

Viator on March 14, 2014 at 1:09 PM

I don’t know the Hainan airfield runway length which the ChiComs used when they hijacked & forced the landing of our recon plane back in 2001.

viking01 on March 14, 2014 at 12:48 PM

That spy plane wasn’t hijacked, but was clipped by one of the Chinese military jets that came to investigate the plane, forcing it’s crew to land on Hainan.

JetBoy on March 14, 2014 at 1:10 PM

CW20 on March 14, 2014 at 12:34 PM

Which has me wondering that if it stayed on course would Cam Ranh Bay (10,000ft x 2) or Da Nang airfields (10,000ft x 1) be usable?

I don’t know the Hainan airfield runway length which the ChiComs used when they hijacked & forced the landing of our recon plane back in 2001.

viking01 on March 14, 2014 at 12:48 PM

The Triple 7 fully loaded needs over 11,000 feet of runway to take off, and needs 8,100 feet of runway at maximum landing weight. However some models of the 777 need less landing length; the 777-200LR only needs 5,610 feet of runway to land on.

Del Dolemonte on March 14, 2014 at 1:11 PM

The data reporting system, they believe, was shut down at 1:07 a.m. The transponder — which transmits location and altitude — shut down at 1:21 a.m…

That means the U.S. team “is convinced that there was manual intervention,” a source said, which means it was likely not an accident or catastrophic malfunction that took the plane out of the sky.

I’d like more information on this. Do either of these systems have their own battery backup? Could their power feed from plane batteries survive longer in one case than the other? Are they in different places on the plane? How long does it take a plane blown up at 35k to hit the water?

slickwillie2001 on March 14, 2014 at 1:12 PM

If there were, why couldn’t they just round them up when they reached Beijing?

DarkCurrent on March 14, 2014 at 1:06 PM

Maybe the cargo in a population center would be too risky?

I’m just pondering. If it was hijacked or waylaid my guess would be Pakistan as the destination.

viking01 on March 14, 2014 at 1:12 PM

But more importantly, why turn off the transponders?

Happy Nomad on March 14, 2014 at 1:00 PM

You’d turn off the transponders to drop / inhibit radar tracking of the aircraft. That’s why this might have been a dress rehearsal – to test and gauge how effective tracking would be with the transponder off.

Prior to 9/11, AQ’s plan was the Bojinka plot – the plan to bomb and down 11 airliners en route from Asia to the US while they were over the Pacific in addition to crashing an aircraft into CIA HQ in Langley, Va.

In the wake of 9/11, it’s significantly harder to get sufficient bomb materials that can bring down an airliner on the a/c without detection. Previous efforts have the risk of a ‘fizzle’, like the Xmas ‘underwear’ bombing attempt or passenger intervention (Richard Reid). 5 passengers who checked-in on the Malaysian flight, but didn’t board, all had their checked baggage removed before take-off if those reports are accurate.

If security can provide this level of protection, it may be more feasible to have hijackers take control of an aircraft and then pilot it to either a target or destruction than to use a device. Turning off transponders to inhibit tracking (and interception) would hint that there is target in mind as opposed to just the destruction of the aircraft.

Athos on March 14, 2014 at 1:16 PM

That spy plane wasn’t hijacked, but was clipped by one of the Chinese military jets that came to investigate the plane, forcing it’s crew to land on Hainan.

JetBoy on March 14, 2014 at 1:10 PM

I’m aware of the ChiCom pilot’s clumsy encounter.

Any excuse will do when the reconnaissance aircraft is packed with high tech surveillance gear they couldn’t wait to get their hands on.

viking01 on March 14, 2014 at 1:17 PM

OT:WTF!

Avast mistake: Royal Navy fire 9ft torpedo from warship into dockyard which houses NUCLEAR submarines
HMS Argyll was taking part in a training drill at Devonport base in Devon
The 45kg projectile flew 200 yards through the air and hit a metal container
The base is used to refuel and repair Britain’s nuclear submarines

Murphy9 on March 14, 2014 at 1:05 PM

Murphy9: Ahems,…practise for Crimea,..(sarc):)

canopfor on March 14, 2014 at 1:21 PM

That spy plane wasn’t hijacked, but was clipped by one of the Chinese military jets that came to investigate the plane, forcing it’s crew to land on Hainan.

JetBoy on March 14, 2014 at 1:10 PM

JetBoy:0
==========

Welcome Home From China – Crew of VQ-1 !
Your Job Is Well Done ! Your Eagle Will Fly Again !

April 2001

http://www.cargolaw.com/2001nightmare_apology.html

canopfor on March 14, 2014 at 1:25 PM

Furthermore, China claimed our EP-3 “rammed” their fighter jet which is as laughable as a 777 doing same.

Which may have happened. Again.

Both the EP-3 and the 777 flight paths would have been near the Paracel Islands.

Another of China’s fighter “pilots” could have pulled another LCDR Wang / Joe Biden maneuver.

viking01 on March 14, 2014 at 1:26 PM

Update: Here’s a charming theory forwarded from a friend. Sleep tight, America.

My wife has been saying for a week that terrorists landed it in an obscure airport and are loading it up with uranium to detonate over a large city.
How much uranium could they possibly have to require a 777 to disperse it?

Seriously. There no is possible way in the world that it could get close without first being identified and shot down.

Hijacked and landed in an obscure location, sure, possible, and slightly plausible given the situation. But flying the many hours from there to the United State’s airspace and managing to make it over a big city?

The plane would have to be leaving from somewhere MUCH closer.

Genuine on March 14, 2014 at 1:29 PM

canopfor on March 14, 2014 at 1:25 PM

… and technically it doesn’t have to be in the air to be hijacked… :-)

That must not have been fun being held hostage detained as guests for 11 days.

viking01 on March 14, 2014 at 1:30 PM

When speculating on the idea of it crashing into the sea at some point – why hasn’t the locator gone off? You can’t turn off the power to it in-flight (it has its own battery). And, no matter how gentle a touchdown into the ocean, if the gear were up it should go off. That’s one of the mysteries.

GWB on March 14, 2014 at 1:32 PM

But Bin Laden is dead now, isn’t he? How can this stuff happen?

Don L on March 14, 2014 at 1:33 PM

OT:WTF!

Avast mistake: Royal Navy fire 9ft torpedo from warship into dockyard which houses NUCLEAR submarines
HMS Argyll was taking part in a training drill at Devonport base in Devon
The 45kg projectile flew 200 yards through the air and hit a metal container
The base is used to refuel and repair Britain’s nuclear submarines

Murphy9 on March 14, 2014 at 1:05 PM

We’re devils and black sheep, really bad eggs,
Drink up me hearties, yo ho.

ElectricPhase on March 14, 2014 at 1:34 PM

Any excuse will do when the reconnaissance aircraft is packed with high tech surveillance gear they couldn’t wait to get their hands on.

viking01 on March 14, 2014 at 1:17 PM

At least the American crew acted quickly to destroy most of it before landing.

Welcome Home From China – Crew of VQ-1 !
Your Job Is Well Done ! Your Eagle Will Fly Again !

April 2001

http://www.cargolaw.com/2001nightmare_apology.html

canopfor on March 14, 2014 at 1:25 PM

Yowza, that page has been around for quite some time…I had forgotten about the fate of the plane, and that it was returned to the US, albeit in pieces. But again, the equipment inside the aircraft was pretty well destroyed by the crew prior to landing.

Most people forget that this was Bush’s first test of an international crisis like this…just months prior to the 9/11 attacks. It gave China a chance to see how Bush would react to it as well, and size him up.

JetBoy on March 14, 2014 at 1:34 PM

Two words: Smith and Jones Ahmad and Abdul.

VorDaj on March 14, 2014 at 1:37 PM

canopfor on March 14, 2014 at 1:25 PM

Yowza, that page has been around for quite some time…I had forgotten about the fate of the plane, and that it was returned to the US, albeit in pieces. But again, the equipment inside the aircraft was pretty well destroyed by the crew prior to landing.

Most people forget that this was Bush’s first test of an international crisis like this…just months prior to the 9/11 attacks. It gave China a chance to see how Bush would react to it as well, and size him up.

JetBoy on March 14, 2014 at 1:34 PM

JetBoy:

CargoLaw,..is an excellent source,…and shipping relateded what-nots,
good point on Bush/ChiComms:)

canopfor on March 14, 2014 at 1:38 PM

canopfor on March 14, 2014 at 1:25 PM

… and technically it doesn’t have to be in the air to be hijacked… :-)

That must not have been fun being held hostage detained as guests for 11 days.

viking01 on March 14, 2014 at 1:30 PM

viking01:Ahems, Lol,..ya no kidding, China was at fault,..200%:)

canopfor on March 14, 2014 at 1:40 PM

It gave China a chance to see how Bush would react to it as well, and size him up.

JetBoy on March 14, 2014 at 1:34 PM

And we see Iran testing Obama & Lurch to see how much they can get away with before this happened.

Just as Putin tested Barky on various occasions before taking Crimea.

viking01 on March 14, 2014 at 1:41 PM

Curious…

A question about a flight simulator in the home of flight MH370 pilot Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah was raised at Friday’s media conference.

Malaysia Airlines chief executive officer Ahnad Jauhari Yahya said Malaysia Airlines had no policy forbidding staff from owning the technology.

Jauhari said Capt Zaharie was allowed to pursue his hobbies.

“There are several other guys (pilots) who also have flight simulators in their home,” he told reporters.

Acting Transport Minister Datuk Seri Hishammuddin Tun Hussein said the authorities will search the home of MH370 crew members if it was necessary to do so.

-snip-

CNN reported that Capt Zaharie had posted on German online forum, X-Sim.de, that he had built a flight simulator himself in November 2012.

“About a month ago I finish assembly of FSX and FS9 with six monitors” in a message signed Capt Zaharie Ahmad Shah BOEING 777 MALAYSIA AIRLINES.

Checks reveal that FSX and FS9 were over the counter flight simulator games made by Microsoft that could be easily bought online.

Flight Simulator X is the successor to Flight Simulator “9″, which was also known as Flight Simulator 2004.

It also turned out that the 9/11 hijackers had used MS Flight Simulator as one of their training tools.

Del Dolemonte on March 14, 2014 at 1:42 PM

The latest daily-mail story says that a plane was spotted on radar south of phucket, I didn’t see this detail in Allah’s write-up. It was following way-points apparently heading towards the Andaman Islands (in the direction of Pakistan).

It was at 35,000 feet which put it in range of Pakistan and flying in that direction. Unless it crashed, it would have had time to land in Pakistan before morning. Given that someone allowed it to land they would probably have helped hide it.

Presently there is a request in to India for radar logs from the Andaman Islands … I guess no-one is making any assumptions yet.

gh on March 14, 2014 at 1:43 PM

WSJ reporting TODAY:

“…missing jet transmitted its location repeatedly to satellites over the course of five hours after it disappeared from radar, people briefed on the matter said, as searchers zeroed in on new target areas hundreds of miles west of the plane’s original course.
The satellites also received speed and altitude information about the plane from its intermittent “pings,” the people said. The final ping was sent from over water, at what one of these people called a normal cruising altitude. They added that it was unclear why the pings stopped. One of the people, an industry official, said it was possible that the system sending them had been disabled by someone on board. “

Why is this just now being reported?

dont taze me bro on March 14, 2014 at 1:45 PM

When speculating on the idea of it crashing into the sea at some point – why hasn’t the locator gone off? You can’t turn off the power to it in-flight (it has its own battery). And, no matter how gentle a touchdown into the ocean, if the gear were up it should go off. That’s one of the mysteries.

GWB on March 14, 2014 at 1:32 PM

The locator beacon on the black box is designed to activate when it hits water…and can be picked up as far away as two nautical miles, and from a depth of 20,000 feet. However, the beacon on the Air France black box malfunctioned, and didn’t work…which is why it took two years to find it.

The beacons run for up to 30 days on their own battery…but it helps to locate it when we know the general whereabouts of a crash. So far, we don’t even know if this plane crashed, or landed somewhere.

JetBoy on March 14, 2014 at 1:47 PM

Andaman and Nicobar Islands: A security challenge for India
By Air Marshal Dhiraj Kukreja
Issue Vol. 28.1 Jan-Mar 2013 | Date : 16 Sep , 2013
****************************************************

INS Baaz Runway ’23′

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/Runway_INS_Baaz.jpg

http://www.indiandefencereview.com/news/andaman-and-nicobar-islands-a-security-challenge-for-india/

canopfor on March 14, 2014 at 1:48 PM

CargoLaw,..is an excellent source,…and shipping relateded what-nots,
good point on Bush/ChiComms:)

canopfor on March 14, 2014 at 1:38 PM

I was just perusing that site…interesting stuff, and a lot there!

And we see Iran testing Obama & Lurch to see how much they can get away with before this happened.

Just as Putin tested Barky on various occasions before taking Crimea.

viking01 on March 14, 2014 at 1:41 PM

As if Obama and Company even need to be tested…our enemies have nothing to worry about. Hopefully 2016 will change that…I sleep easier at night knowing America’s enemies are kept scared.

JetBoy on March 14, 2014 at 1:53 PM

Here’s a charming theory forwarded from a friend. Sleep tight, America.

Your friend can join the cacophony over at the LA Times. Commenters there have been floating that theory for several days — along with gruesome ideas of what happened to all of the inconvenient non-Muslim passengers.

unclesmrgol on March 14, 2014 at 1:53 PM

JetBoy on March 14, 2014 at 1:47 PM

Assuming it didn’t go down very rapidly in deep water, you ought to pick up the beacon from a lot further away than 2 miles when it first goes off. We’d get the bloody things from puddle-jumpers having a hard landing from 50-60 miles away. If *everyone* was home in bed in the area it went down, then yeah, it could go unnoticed. But … in *this* day and age? No one within 100+ miles?

Sure, possible. But likely? Hmmmmm. Another mystery.

GWB on March 14, 2014 at 1:53 PM

So far, we don’t even know if this plane crashed, or landed somewhere.

JetBoy on March 14, 2014 at 1:47 PM

Or still flying around up there somewhere!

Sorry for the snark but it was absurd how many so-called journalists spent the first three days reporting as if the plane was simply running a little bit late.

Happy Nomad on March 14, 2014 at 1:54 PM

That plane also had 3 Americans on board – 2 of them children.

Flora Duh on March 14, 2014 at 12:30 PM

Flora Duh:Correct,…and Two Canadians:)

canopfor on March 14, 2014 at 12:43 PM

That’s a bit strange, that means the two American children were flying alone (or well, with a chaperon provided by the airlines) because the only other American that was on the flight (of the three that you mwntioned) is/was that Wood guy, the IBM executive who was flying by himself and who has grown up children in texas, according to ABC.

jimver on March 14, 2014 at 1:56 PM

GWB on March 14, 2014 at 1:53 PM

I think you are confusing the radio beacon with the underwater beacon. The radio beacon doesn’t work underwater. The underwater beacon can be picked up from reconnaissance ships that pass within roughly 2 nautical miles.

db on March 14, 2014 at 1:56 PM

China Daily Mail ‏@ChinaDailyMail Mar 10

China and Malaysia hint at Uighur terrorist attack on missing plane http://wp.me/p2fmUD-9j4
View summary
============

https://twitter.com/ChinaDailyMail

canopfor on March 14, 2014 at 1:58 PM

Not sure if anyone saw this or it was mentioned in any of the threads yet:

http://www.syracuse.com/news/index.ssf/2014/03/malaysia_plane_passengers_incl.html

AUSTIN, Texas — An Austin, Texas, technology company says 20 of its employees were aboard the Malaysia Airlines plane that went missing over the South China Sea.

Jacey Zuniga, a spokeswoman for Freescale Semiconductor, says 12 Malaysian and 8 Chinese employees are “confirmed passengers.” She says no American citizen Freescale employees were on the flight.

About Freescale Semiconductors:

Freescale is a leader in embedded processing solutions for the automotive, consumer, industrial and networking markets. From microcontrollers and microprocessors to sensors, analog ICs and connectivity, our technologies are fueling the next great wave of innovation. Learn about Freescale Connected Intelligence and how we’re making the world a smarter place for all of us.

can_con on March 14, 2014 at 1:58 PM

I know several pilots who also have Flight Simulator and similar programs on their computers.

I keep Flight Simulator Pro 2002 on this computer.

Not only does it allow Cessnas and Boeing jet simulations but also aerobatic Extras and Vought Corsairs to be simulated. Plus helicopters.

The captain may simply have loved flying. He already has the training and knows the aircraft limits.

viking01 on March 14, 2014 at 2:02 PM

China Daily Mail ‏@ChinaDailyMail Mar 10

China and Malaysia hint at Uighur terrorist attack on missing plane http://wp.me/p2fmUD-9j4
View summary
============

https://twitter.com/ChinaDailyMail

canopfor on March 14, 2014 at 1:58 PM

About time somebody publically speculated that might have happened considering their terrorist attack, several days prior, at a Chinese train station which killed 27 people.

Though why the Chinese wouldn’t notice a jet airliner entering NW China.

sentinelrules on March 14, 2014 at 2:03 PM

Or still flying around up there somewhere!

Sorry for the snark but it was absurd how many so-called journalists spent the first three days reporting as if the plane was simply running a little bit late.

Happy Nomad on March 14, 2014 at 1:54 PM

Heh, well if the airplane flew in a easterly direction, and matched the rotation of the Earth, wouldn’t they be stuck at one point in time? o_O

At this point, a week after this flight seemingly disappeared off the face of the Earth, even the craziest theories can start to make more sense with each passing day.

JetBoy on March 14, 2014 at 2:03 PM

SCMP 南華早報 ‏@SCMP_News Mar 13

WATCH: Malaysian ‘witch doctor’ using coconuts to track down missing MH370 | http://sc.mp/v6z0p http://ow.ly/i/4SMcg
===========================================

http://ow.ly/i/4SMcg

canopfor on March 14, 2014 at 2:04 PM

That’s a bit strange, that means the two American children were flying alone (or well, with a chaperon provided by the airlines) because the only other American that was on the flight (of the three that you mwntioned) is/was that Wood guy, the IBM executive who was flying by himself and who has grown up children in texas, according to ABC.

jimver on March 14, 2014 at 1:56 PM

I believe both children were flying with parents – who were citizens of another country (China?). Remember, if a child is born in the US, that child gets US citizenship. That might not be the case of the parents who might only be permanent resident aliens and citizens of their native country. They would be listed on the manifest as citizens of that country.

Athos on March 14, 2014 at 2:04 PM

SCMP 南華早報 ‏@SCMP_News Mar 13

WATCH: Malaysian ‘witch doctor’ using coconuts to track down missing MH370 | http://sc.mp/v6z0p http://ow.ly/i/4SMcg
===========================================

http://ow.ly/i/4SMcg

canopfor on March 14, 2014 at 2:04 PM

Now why didn’t Obama’s Air Force think of that?

Murphy9 on March 14, 2014 at 2:04 PM

Retweeted by SCMP 南華早報
DLJH ‏@JournoDannyAsia Mar 13

SCMP graphic on if #mh370 kept flying for four more hours @SCMP_News pic.twitter.com/dam554fWVR
===========================

https://twitter.com/JournoDannyAsia/status/444044214867738625/photo/1/large

canopfor on March 14, 2014 at 2:05 PM

Strange, isn’t it, that the WH and dear leader have been silent on this event.

Kissmygrits on March 14, 2014 at 1:08 PM

Is that really strange? It’s what they do.

crankyoldlady on March 14, 2014 at 2:06 PM

Though why the Chinese wouldn’t notice a jet airliner entering NW China.

sentinelrules on March 14, 2014 at 2:03 PM

What if they were forced to shoot it down?

At this time with the Ukrainian situation the US wouldn’t want to confront China on such an issue.

sharrukin on March 14, 2014 at 2:07 PM

Obama has more important things like golf and shooting hoops….

viking01 on March 14, 2014 at 2:09 PM

canopfor on March 14, 2014 at 2:04 PM

Now why didn’t Obama’s Air Force think of that?

Murphy9 on March 14, 2014 at 2:04 PM

Murphy9:

Le ughs,..maybes a Kenya Voo-Doo Doctor Dance would help:)

canopfor on March 14, 2014 at 2:12 PM

WATCH: Malaysian ‘witch doctor’ using coconuts to track down missing MH370 | http://sc.mp/v6z0p http://ow.ly/i/4SMcg
===========================================

http://ow.ly/i/4SMcg

canopfor on March 14, 2014 at 2:04 PM

Don’t they know…you put the lime in the coconut and call the (witch)doctor…

JetBoy on March 14, 2014 at 2:12 PM

WATCH: Malaysian ‘witch doctor’ using coconuts to track down missing MH370
===========================================

http://ow.ly/i/4SMcg

canopfor on March 14, 2014 at 2:04 PM

Don’t they know…you put the lime in the coconut and call the (witch)doctor…

JetBoy on March 14, 2014 at 2:13 PM

Clearly the blame lays with racism.

Greek Fire on March 14, 2014 at 2:13 PM

That’s a bit strange, that means the two American children were flying alone (or well, with a chaperon provided by the airlines) because the only other American that was on the flight (of the three that you mwntioned) is/was that Wood guy, the IBM executive who was flying by himself and who has grown up children in texas, according to ABC.

jimver on March 14, 2014 at 1:56 PM

Just because the children are American doesn’t mean their parents are or whoever might have been with them. Why haven’t we found out who they are by the way?

crankyoldlady on March 14, 2014 at 2:15 PM

Has anyone looked into a chinese muslim Uighur connection…they have really spiked their jihad in china lately….

thedevilinside on March 14, 2014 at 11:41 AM

There was a small news article saying that a Uigher PhD – who had taken flight simulator instruction – was on board. It didn’t say where he had taken the instruction; and there has been nothing further about him that I’ve seen.

Solaratov on March 14, 2014 at 2:17 PM

At this point, a week after this flight seemingly disappeared off the face of the Earth, even the craziest theories can start to make more sense with each passing day.

JetBoy on March 14, 2014 at 2:03 PM

Maybe it’s stuck in the ice with that ship.

crankyoldlady on March 14, 2014 at 2:18 PM

I’m sure someone else has said this…

…but Southeast Asian waters is the homebase of pirates.

What if this was a pirate skyjacking?

And they wanted the plane for black market transportation?

It’s crazy, but just as possible as crossing India, not getting blown out of the sky, and landing in Pakistan.

Or crossing our naval fleet on way to UAE, Saudi Arabia, etc…

I mean, that area is under heavy satellite watch. Those straits are ground zero for WW3.

But the pirate islands, not as much.

budfox on March 14, 2014 at 2:21 PM

Havent read through all the comments but has anyone entertained the idea the jet was hijacked with the intent to crash it over a large population center, say Kuala Lumpur or Jakarta. Maybe Singapore? Perhaps the pilots fought back and deliberately kept it over the sea and put it down there.

RobertE on March 14, 2014 at 2:24 PM

If it wasn’t flown into the ocean it could have been piracy. The pilots could have been paid to fly it somewhere. It might be held for ransom by some group. They could be asking for money from China or Malaysia and they wouldn’t make that public. It could be sitting in a country where the citizens aren’t in the habit of talking to authorities or a country where they don’t have communications. The whole thing would have been planned out. There are many reasons why we might not know what happened.

crankyoldlady on March 14, 2014 at 2:24 PM

While more and more it is clearly an act of terrorism (which explains what the Malaysian government is trying so hard to hide. Completely dropping the ball on the worst terrorist penetration since 9/11) , this isn’t a Terrorist act directed at America or to challenge Obama. Not everything on earth revolves around the US. This looks more like a challenge directed at Xi Jingping just ahead of the next people’s Congress. It’s in China’s backyard. Mostly Chinese citizens have vanished. Iran would have no reason to stir up that nest. While the terrorists are unlikely to be US friends, this is far more local. Uighur? Tibet? Some weird North Korean action? We keep asking why no one takes credit? That’s another queue that these probably are not the usual suspects. Terrorism against the US announces itself. Terrorism against China does not. Mostly because the Chinese People’s Army is currently sitting on top of the terrorists homes.

patches on March 14, 2014 at 2:26 PM

patches on March 14, 2014 at 2:26 PM

Hmmmmm. We’ll trade the hostages for a couple of your (China’s) nukes. Don’t worry, we won’t use them on you ;^)

db on March 14, 2014 at 2:29 PM

Disclosure: most speculation, including mine, is almost always wrong, so here’s mine….

I’m a big believer that the simplest explanation is almost (almost!!) always correct and in this situation I still lean towards pilot error and/or crappy maintenance resulting in a smoking hole in the earth or as yet undiscovered debris in the sea.

There’s a reason that Boeing and Airbus make planes as idiot proof as possible. Many of their buyers (cough thirdworldcountries cough) employ idiots as pilots…and ground crews…and maintenance crew and management….and…and…

Most of these companies used to hire “training staff” to teach flying and maintenance from first world countries, Britain comes to mind, said “training”, of course, included all the flying and all the maintenance.

When the economy soured those experienced outsiders were the first to go and favorite first cousins and other influential if entirely unqualified (okay, marginally unqualified) family members won those positions. I saw this first hand when I worked in a country near Malaysia and I suspect readers here who still work and live in the region will tell you that they are more and more uneasy to fly certain airlines.

When I worked at the Air Mobility Command in the early 90′s there were certain foreign airlines that we….”avoided” booking for U.S. Government and Military personnel travel because of flight safety issues; I wouldn’t be surprised if that list is still active.

I would have thought a brand new airplane would have a larger “idiot proof” margin, but idiots are so inventive.

I’d also look where the U.S. Navy is looking; the U.S. has satellites that we will never reveal that see more than we will ever admit.

May God have mercy on their souls.

E9RET on March 14, 2014 at 2:35 PM

canopfor on March 14, 2014 at 2:04 PM

Don’t they know…you put the lime in the coconut and call the (witch)doctor…

JetBoy on March 14, 2014 at 2:13 PM

JetBoy: Lol,…..quite the tune:)

canopfor on March 14, 2014 at 2:36 PM

Heard a Triple7 pilot say the other day on radio that the plane is designed to basically ignore any kind of weather, and designed to stay aloft, and with power failure designed to coast to easy landing and float on water. He said that human intervention had to be involved

ConservativePartyNow on March 14, 2014 at 2:38 PM

if using as weapon 777 actually good choice, can fly pretty easily on 1 engine if needed and has a lot of mass.

maybe some chinese gangs needed a new plane and its being repainted now.
I think it was a crew hijacking and I also think it did end up going down. possible 1 crew member involved and was not able to handle flight duties alone.
speculation of course.

dmacleo on March 14, 2014 at 2:41 PM

I think this is a plane heist, maybe the first ever. That plane is being gutted and having any identifiable marks or electronics replaced right now. All of the passengers are either prisoners or dead. Gotta be worth tens or hundreds of millions of dollars.

thphilli on March 14, 2014 at 12:50 PM

Why bother with that when anybody in the world can buy a brand-new one from Boeing? I don’t think it’s a restricted item.

Solaratov on March 14, 2014 at 2:42 PM

Why bother with that when anybody in the world can buy a brand-new one from Boeing? I don’t think it’s a restricted item.

Solaratov on March 14, 2014 at 2:42 PM

I don’t think pirates have that kind of money.

crankyoldlady on March 14, 2014 at 2:48 PM

If we’re looking for an airport in that vicinity/direction that could be ued to land a 777 and is located in an area known for its strict interpretation of Islam, there’s Blang Bintang Airport (BTJ) near Banda Aceh, on the northern tip of Sumatra.

This would mean that anyone plotting the “theft” of a jumbo jet would have to have people at that airport in on the plan, from ATC’s to a ground crew, something that starts to strain credulity.

If they had been able to land undetected at an established airport, what would their next move be? Is there any way the plane could then be reintroduced into normal air traffic?

KGB on March 14, 2014 at 2:49 PM

Reposted without permission from a forum where some pilots hang out (but I don’t think they’d mind):

Guy#1

The course change/transponder shut-down was made at the exact time the aircraft left one controlled airspace and was entering another. It would take time for the second controller to realize he was missing an aircraft. He likely didn’t check in with the second.

The direction of change was away from the intended flight path and from the previous flight path. When you think of it is one of the last places they would have looked for the aircraft.

One pilot probably went to the bathroom, or more likely, he was drugged (coffee) or incapacitated in the cockpit. For all this to occur required exact timing. I can’t see hijackers getting into the cockpit at the exact time of the changeover.

Putting the aircraft in the water would kill the ELT and limit the search to the UAB. You have to be much closer to detect the UAB.

Just my thoughts. One of the pilots lost it………….

Guy#2

my thought from the beginning was the same, where i figured that whichever pilot “lost it”‘ had enough or whatever waited until a gap between radar stations, or right at a transfer spot, and switched off the transponder, changed course. figure someone in the crew, or perhaps the other pilot realized what was going on and it hit the fan from there. figure the two stolen passports were individuals just trying to defect.

Guy#1

One thing I forgot that during potty breaks there is always a second person in the cockpit.

Guy #3

ACARS: “Q. Why would you turn off a transponder during a normal flight?
There could be several reasons. One reason could be when airplanes get close to each other (perhaps they are approaching an airport). Air traffic controllers may then request pilots to turn the transponders off or to standby. Also, if the transponder is sending faulty information, the pilot might want to turn it off. Planes are still visible on primary radar until they get below the radar’s coverage ability.”

In my 36 years of flying – not once, not ever, have I heard of such a thing. The transponder is a critical part of TCAS (Traffic Collision Avoidance System) – and no one is going to casually turn it off. It’s now required to be “On” – on the ground at most busy airports, so ground control can keep us sorted out…

Once again – don’t believe everything you read.

Thought it was an interesting discussion.

ElectricPhase on March 14, 2014 at 2:50 PM

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