Video: Ron Paul defends Crimea’s referendum on annexation by Russia

posted at 4:41 pm on March 13, 2014 by Allahpundit

Via Noah Rothman, it comes in the second half of the clip below on NSA spying. This about sums things up:

The setting here, interestingly, is Fox Business’s new libertarian-themed show “The Independents.” It’s “Reason” editor Matt Welch who challenges Paul on the uselessness of trying to hold a free and fair election in a province that’s being threatened by 80,000 Russian troops across the border. Paul’s among people who respect the non-interventionist approach to foreign policy, in other words, and even they seemingly can’t believe that he’s trying to frame this as a matter of “self-determination.” Even if the election were free and fair, remember that Crimea has an ethnic Russian majority in no small part because Stalin purged it of its Tatars decades ago. “Self-determination” has always been … problematic in Crimea. And not just Crimea, needless to say.

But never mind all that. Nowadays, Ron Paul’s foreign-policy pronouncements matter politically mostly to the extent they agree or disagree with Rand’s. The disagreement in this case is sharp. Which raises the question: Even if you think Rand is privately more sympathetic to his father’s views on international relations than he’s letting on, how would he govern if he ended up being elected? Either he’s telling the truth in his Time op-ed about wanting to be tough on Russia or he’s lying but too afraid of how voters would react if he revealed his true views. And if he’s too afraid now, presumably he’d also be too afraid as president — during his first term, at least. Paint me a picture of how President Rand metamorphoses into President Ron without facing a nasty backlash from Democrats and Republican hawks. We’d all prefer a candidate who votes the right way out of principle to one who votes the right way because he fears the wrath of the electorate if he doesn’t, but in the end they’re both voting the right way. Romney clearly fell into the second column, not the first, and we went and nominated him, didn’t we? That’s the devil’s-advocate view of why Rand’s private foreign policy views don’t matter, even if you’re suspicious about them.

Anyway. I’m sorry to report that four Russian websites known for criticism of Putin’s government are now enjoying less self-determination than they used to. In lieu of an exit question, read this Cathy Young piece responding to isolationists on the far left and far right who blame America for spoiling relations with post-Soviet Russia. Moscow had plenty of opportunities, replete with financial incentives, to play nice with the west. Putin has his own agenda.



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Even if you think Rand is privately more sympathetic to his father’s views on international relations than he’s letting on, how would he govern if he ended up being elected?

Rand’s stance on amnesty did him in with me but he wouldn’t be the first to win the primaries without my support nor will I vote for him, or any other candidate who supports amnesty.

But should he become president absent my support I can only hope & pray that his actions regarding intervention are not simply similar to Ron’s, but are rather a mirror reflection of same.

frank on March 13, 2014 at 8:57 PM

The deputy leader of Svoboda Ihor Miroshnychenko called Ukrainian born actress Mila Kunis a “dirty Jewess,” in 2012.

sharrukin on March 13, 2014 at 8:51 PM

Good thing there isn’t any anti-Semitism in Putin’s Russia.

V7_Sport on March 13, 2014 at 9:05 PM

Good thing there isn’t any anti-Semitism in Putin’s Russia.

V7_Sport on March 13, 2014 at 9:05 PM

I am sure there are just like in the US, but not in control of key government ministries and not …”coordinating our actions with the council of the National Security and Defense, as well as with the army’s General Headquarters.

sharrukin on March 13, 2014 at 9:11 PM

Bad news, there are Neo-Nazis in Michigan, that’s why it’s OK for Canada to annex it or something.

V7_Sport on March 13, 2014 at 9:12 PM

So sick of the neo-con BS..

melle1228 on March 13, 2014 at 5:28 PM

Same here. The term is becoming as meaningless as “Far Right”. Just a catch-all insult.

ddrintn on March 13, 2014 at 6:02 PM

Well in that case – is racist still valid?
Or is that already just assumed in the others?
Enquirin’ minds gots ta know…..

dentarthurdent on March 13, 2014 at 6:07 PM

Yes, “racist” is still valid, as is “neo-con”. They just have very specific meanings, not, on the one hand, something to designate opposition to Obama; and on the other, something to designate anyone who doesn’t share Ron Paul’s isolationist views. I wonder what Ron Paul would’ve been saying circa 1938 about Nazi expansionism. But just as 1938 was too late to stop Hitler, it’s now too late to stop Putin. The old USSR will probably be reconstituted in some form, eventually.

ddrintn on March 13, 2014 at 9:13 PM

sharrukin on March 13, 2014 at 8:51 PM

I have a friend, born in the Ukraine, born Jewish, immigrated to the US as a preschooler, conservative republican..and she doesn’t see it like that. Certainly-there are still Jew-haters in the Ukraine-but they’re on the fringe now. One of the signers of that letter to Putin that RWM linked to-is the head of the Jewish community of Cheringov.
My grandfather was born in Chernigov. Chernigov is where my Ukrainian roots are.
Things have gotten a lot better for the Jews of the Ukraine.

annoyinglittletwerp on March 13, 2014 at 9:14 PM

If it is such a right, and such a wide spread want; then why does Russia have troops in someone else’s border? Or are you telling me that if Mexico suddenly wanted to annex California and Texas, and put troops in those states to do it- you would be perfectly fine with a “vote” that came from those states?
It is one thing to say that American shouldn’t be involved militarily, but quite another to think that Russia is doing what it is doing for the “rights” of Crimea’s citizens.
melle1228 on March 13, 2014 at 5:26 PM

Ah yet plenty of neocons were in favor of annexing Kosovo absent even the sham of a referendum. Such is the insatiable desire for land grabs & bloodlust.

Kosovo je Srbija!!!!

frank on March 13, 2014 at 9:14 PM

Ah yet plenty of neocons were in favor of annexing Kosovo absent even the sham of a referendum. Such is the insatiable desire for land grabs & bloodlust.

Kosovo je Srbija!!!!

frank on March 13, 2014 at 9:14 PM

And there’s another strawman. Those “neo-cons” and their insatiable bloodlust and greed! Being in favor of a strong foreign policy doesn’t make one a “neo-con”, just as being a Paul fan doesn’t make one particularly holy. I was against intervening in Kosovo. I thought it would be a good time for those sanctimonious Euro-shites to put up or shut up in their own “back yard”. Heck, I was against the Iraq war, at least until troops were actually committed.

ddrintn on March 13, 2014 at 9:29 PM

Certainly-there are still Jew-haters in the Ukraine-but they’re on the fringe now.

annoyinglittletwerp on March 13, 2014 at 9:14 PM

On the fringe?

Oleksandr Sych – Vice Prime Minister

Ihor Tenyukh – Minister of Defense

Andriy Parubiy – Secretary of National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine

Oleg Makhnitsky – Attorney General

Dmytro Yarosh – Deputy Sectretary National Security and Defense Council of Ukraine

Dmytro Bulatov – 2nd Minister of Youth and Sports of Ukraine

Ihor Shvaika – Minister of Agrarian Policy

sharrukin on March 13, 2014 at 9:29 PM

Ah yet plenty of neocons were in favor of annexing Kosovo absent even the sham of a referendum. Such is the insatiable desire for land grabs & bloodlust.
Kosovo je Srbija!!!!
frank on March 13, 2014 at 9:14 PM
And there’s another strawman. Those “neo-cons” and their insatiable bloodlust and greed! Being in favor of a strong foreign policy doesn’t make one a “neo-con”, just as being a Paul fan doesn’t make one particularly holy. I was against intervening in Kosovo. I thought it would be a good time for those sanctimonious Euro-shites to put up or shut up in their own “back yard”. Heck, I was against the Iraq war, at least until troops were actually committed.
ddrintn on March 13, 2014 at 9:29 PM

Yes a fortiori argument in favor of annexation by proxy. And I’m the one erecting a “strawman?”

frank on March 13, 2014 at 9:38 PM

Yes a fortiori argument in favor of annexation by proxy. And I’m the one erecting a “strawman?”

frank on March 13, 2014 at 9:38 PM

The strawman is right there in “annexation”. And what would you Paulians have cared if the European community had “annexed” Kosovo anyway? As long as those bloodthirsty US “neo-cons” had nothing to do with it…

ddrintn on March 13, 2014 at 9:48 PM

Putin Ally Blames Jews for Russia’s Woes

Jewish leaders in Ukraine as saying they believe “pro-Russian provocateurs are behind the attacks on their synagogues” in Ukraine.

(Eli) Lake reports that “…leaders of Ukraine’s small Jewish community (experts estimate there are between 80,000 and 350,000 Jews in Ukraine) say they are more worried about anti-Semitic attacks from Russian operatives and Yanukovych loyalists than the nationalists who gathered in Kiev and other cities to oust him.”

Joseph Zissels, the president of the Ukrainian Jewish community known as the Vaad, told Lake that “Russian propaganda has exaggerated the role of neo-Nazis in the new Ukrainian government” and that “There are more neo-Nazi groups in Russia than there are in Ukraine.”

(Rabbi Yaakov Dov Bleich, a chief rabbi in Ukraine) affirmed the majority of the protesters are ‘grassroots, regular everyday old people from Ukraine that were fed up with living in a corrupt society, and they came out to protest against it to try to make change and they were successful in making change.’”

The rabbi said, “That’s the majority. They are not anti-Semites. They are not right-wing nationalist neo-fascists or Nazis the way the Russians are trying to paint them.”

While it is true that Putin has refrained from open anti-Semitism, he made the controversial assertion that at least 80 percent of the members of the first Soviet government were Jewish (an anti-semitic lie which is used to leave the impression that “the Jews cooked up the revolution” that devastated Russia).

A variation of this theme has been offered by David Duke, the former Ku Klux Klan leader who views “Zionist-driven Globalism and its collaborators [as] the greatest enemies of mankind.” In his book, The Secret Behind Communism, Duke argues for the existence of “the Jewish Supremacist role in the creation, execution and maintenance of world Communism, and the ‘Russian’ Revolution in particular…”

Feb 6: Putin party leader declares publicly that ‘Jews destroyed Russia’

But, don’t worry. Antisemitism is only found in Kiev or something.

Resist We Much on March 13, 2014 at 9:50 PM

Yes a fortiori argument in favor of annexation by proxy. And I’m the one erecting a “strawman?”
frank on March 13, 2014 at 9:38 PM
The strawman is right there in “annexation”. And what would you Paulians have cared if the European community had “annexed” Kosovo anyway? As long as those bloodthirsty US “neo-cons” had nothing to do with it…
ddrintn on March 13, 2014 at 9:48 PM

But Kosovo was indeed annexed therefore rendering the “strawman” argument a fortiori argument indeed.

And from the fortiori argument you make the leap that I am a “Paulian.” The only candidate, absent Reagan, who had my true support in recent times is Pat Buchanan.

frank on March 13, 2014 at 9:58 PM

So sick of the neo-con BS.. If you think that a “vote” taken at the point of another country’s military might be suspect; then you must be a “neo-con..”

melle1228 on March 13, 2014 at 5:28 PM

We’re all neocons now :)

thebrokenrattle on March 13, 2014 at 10:00 PM

Kosovo je Srbija!!!!
frank on March 13, 2014 at 9:14 PM

Pity for you those brave Serbians were only good at shooting civilians and bulldozing them into drainage ditches.
Amazing, did we let you into the USA “frank”?

V7_Sport on March 13, 2014 at 10:04 PM

The defence of Russia is just bizarre. Even if you believe that the pro-Ukrainian protestors are all fascists, there is still no justification for Russia’s invasion and occupation – and remember, this isn’t its first such act of late. The matter should have been one for Ukrainians to resolve. Even if you think that the former president was illegally removed, again there is no justification for Russia’s military action.

I can’t even fathom defending Britain if it began to invade and occupy its former colonies. Even with the Falklands, the government has made it quite clear for a very long time that the Islanders have the right of self-determination…and they have determined. 98% of the residents voted to remain under British rule. The UK will defend the islands, but it will also let them go should the population decide they wish for independence in the future.

It is just weird to read the defence of Vladimir Putin.

OTOH, it is just soooo kewl that Vlad’s buddy, Crimean Prime Minister Aksyonov, was nicknamed ‘The Goblin’ when he was a member of a criminal organisation in Crimea following the collapse of the USSR. /

Resist We Much on March 13, 2014 at 10:11 PM

I am sure there are just like in the US, but not in control of key government ministries and not …”coordinating our actions with the council of the National Security and Defense, as well as with the army’s General Headquarters.“

sharrukin on March 13, 2014 at 9:11 PM

It’s just an insult to anyone who has a triple digit IQ for you to expect that they believe that Putin invaded and took over the Crimean Peninsula because of Nazis in Eastern Europe. Russia is a country that supports Syria and Iran while they both persecute Jews and Christians, they have done so to the extent of over 100,000 to possibly 150,000 deaths in Syria and giving the Iranians an atomic bomb which you can bet is aimed at Tel Aviv (if not New York or Washington DC.)
The idea that Putin gives a rats behind about some Jew hating thugs in the Ukraine while he supports them in Syria in Iran is a pathetic joke. He wants an ice free port-Full stop. And he is willing to invade a sovereign country with international borders agreed to by treaties that the USA and the leading European nations are signatories of to get it, mainly because he knows that we are lead by a clown.

V7_Sport on March 13, 2014 at 10:18 PM

Kosovo je Srbija!!!!
frank on March 13, 2014 at 9:14 PM
Pity for you those brave Serbians were only good at shooting civilians and bulldozing them into drainage ditches.
Amazing, did we let you into the USA “frank”?
V7_Sport on March 13, 2014 at 10:04 PM

Lies! Damnable lies! Now disprove the slander. But of course you cannot. CCCC!

frank on March 13, 2014 at 10:22 PM

It’s just an insult to anyone who has a triple digit IQ for you to expect that they believe that Putin invaded and took over the Crimean Peninsula because of Nazis in Eastern Europe.

He took it over because he saw an opportunity to expand his power base, secure the bases in the Crimea, and reunite some regions to Russia.

The question is why the west should be supporting the Kiev government not why Putin wants the Crimea. Not everything Putin supports should be opposed, and not everything he is against should be supported.

Russia is a country that supports Syria and Iran while they both persecute Jews and Christians, they have done so to the extent of over 100,000 to possibly 150,000 deaths in Syria and giving the Iranians an atomic bomb which you can bet is aimed at Tel Aviv (if not New York or Washington DC.)

This is nonsense. Syria and Iran are very different cases.

In Syria our allies are Al-Qaeda. You remember Al-Qaeda don’t you? Just because Putin is on the side of Assad does not mean that Al-Qaeda are the good guys.

V7_Sport on March 13, 2014 at 10:18 PM

First, Vladimir Putin of Russia, now, King Abdullah of Saudi Arabia, both offer support for the Egyptian Army against the Muslim Brotherhood…and against Barack Hussein Obama

OMG, I guess since Putin is against the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt, then they must be allies of the west?

sharrukin on March 13, 2014 at 10:32 PM

Lies! Damnable lies! Now disprove the slander. But of course you cannot. CCCC!

frank on March 13, 2014 at 10:22 PM

We used to get the daily feed off the satellites in print outs from an intel officer who was determined to wreck our breakfast. What the Serbs did was just vile. You defending it makes you vile as well.

“CCCC”… You are absolutely free to unite with all the Serbs you want Frank. Go the hell back.

V7_Sport on March 13, 2014 at 10:33 PM

But Kosovo was indeed annexed…

frank on March 13, 2014

No, it wasn’t.

ddrintn on March 13, 2014 at 10:40 PM

He took it over because he saw an opportunity to expand his power base, secure the bases in the Crimea, and reunite some regions to Russia.

They were/are internationally recognized as Ukrainian. As for the rest, it’s a polite way of saying he took what he wanted. Why are you an apologist for this thug?

The question is why the west should be supporting the Kiev government

Because they are the victims of naked aggression from a new tzar who is intent on restoring the Soviet Union. That and we gave them assurances that we would recognize their territorial sovereignty.

Not everything Putin supports should be opposed…

What do you get out of that? What does writing that do for you? “Not everything Pol Pot suppers should be opposed…” “Hitler was good to his dog”… “Mussolini made the trains run on time…” “Obama likes sunny days”.

Russia is a country that supports Syria and Iran while they both persecute Jews and Christians, they have done so to the extent of over 100,000 to possibly 150,000 deaths in Syria and giving the Iranians an atomic bomb which you can bet is aimed at Tel Aviv (if not New York or Washington DC.)

This is nonsense. Syria and Iran are very different cases.

Bull. It is Putin pursuing what he sees as his geopolitical interests, the whole “Nazi” thing iS a pathetic excuse. You dismissing it as nonsense is not a counterargument. It’s just lame.

In Syria our allies are Al-Qaeda.

We have no allies in Syria, the Iranian quids force and the Russian Spetnaz wiped them out early on. Now they are free to level entire neighborhoods with impunity.

OMG, I guess since Putin is against the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt…

Yeah, thanks again for the strawman, Chairman Mao increased steel production and Genghis Khan was a hell of a horseman.

V7_Sport on March 13, 2014 at 10:50 PM

Lies! Damnable lies! Now disprove the slander. But of course you cannot. CCCC!
frank on March 13, 2014 at 10:22 PM
We used to get the daily feed off the satellites in print outs from an intel officer who was determined to wreck our breakfast. What the Serbs did was just vile. You defending it makes you vile as well.
“CCCC”… You are absolutely free to unite with all the Serbs you want Frank. Go the hell back.
V7_Sport on March 13, 2014 at 10:33 PM

You’re either a Nazi Cro, an Albright sycophant, rabid Clinton supporter, or, an Albanian.

Stop slandering the Serbs. Just stop.

It is all lies & will not stop Slavic unity.

Samo Sloga Srbina Spasava!

frank on March 13, 2014 at 10:52 PM

frank on March 13, 2014 at 10:52 PM

So Milosevic wasn’t guilty?
Of course he was. The Serbs were just evil.

annoyinglittletwerp on March 13, 2014 at 11:05 PM

They were/are internationally recognized as Ukrainian.

They are Russians and Tatars in the Crimea. The Crimea was transferred by a Soviet dictator in 1954. That may seem sacrosanct to you, but it doesn’t to those who have thrown off the Soviet stranglehold.

As for the rest, it’s a polite way of saying he took what he wanted. Why are you an apologist for this thug?

Thats right. He took what he wanted. Welcome to the real world.

The question is why the west should be supporting the Kiev government

Because they are the victims of naked aggression from a new tzar who is intent on restoring the Soviet Union.

The Soviet Union is gone. GROW UP!

Or is it all a decades long super-secret KGB plan to get us to let our guard down?

That and we gave them assurances that we would recognize their territorial sovereignty.

When nuclear weapons are used in a violation of their borders. That hasn’t happened.

Not everything Putin supports should be opposed…

What do you get out of that? What does writing that do for you? “Not everything Pol Pot suppers should be opposed…” “Hitler was good to his dog”… “Mussolini made the trains run on time…” “Obama likes sunny days”.

V7_Sport on March 13, 2014 at 10:50 PM

Putin isn’t Hitler. Bush isn’t Hitler. Cheney isn’t Hitler. Milosevic Isn’t Hitler. Assad isn’t Hitler. Why do guys like you always have to resort to this sort of hysteria?

Not everything in life is some cheesy, two-dimensional, black and white morality play.

sharrukin on March 13, 2014 at 11:07 PM

ou’re either a Nazi Cro, an Albright sycophant, rabid Clinton supporter, or, an Albanian.

frank on March 13, 2014 at 10:52 PM

Nope, an American and former Officer in the USN who had to get yanked out of his life to help stop jumped up serbian rats from, literally, lining up women, children and old men and shooting them just because you could.
Go Unite, troll, just go.

V7_Sport on March 13, 2014 at 11:14 PM

I won’t even lower myself by answering the questions of those whose knowledge of Slavs, and Slavic history, is less than de minimis. Suffice to say that King Lazar was dining off gold flatware whilst the majority of your ancestors were wiping their tails with their hands. I have no use for fraudulent Slavs; and to the Cro, no matter what it takes i will rout you out.

frank on March 13, 2014 at 11:22 PM

Nope, an American and former Officer in the USN who had to get yanked out of his life to help stop jumped up serbian rats from, literally, lining up women, children and old men and shooting them just because you could.
Go Unite, troll, just go.
V7_Sport on March 13, 2014 at 11:14 PM

More Albright & Clinton lies all in service of Muslims & Oligarchs feening for a pipeline. Telling that you fail to mention innocent Serbs slaughtered all in service to rid Lewinsky from the headlines & oligarch profits.

Further i am not a troll but a registered member of the highest standing for over six years.

frank on March 13, 2014 at 11:32 PM

Re.sharrukin

They are Russians and Tatars in the Crimea.

There are Russians on Long Island and Tartars in Alberta Canada. Is Putin the lord-protector of anyone with a drop of Russian blood all of a sudden? It’s an excuse. Vlad wants his ice free port. It’s an excuse.

The Crimea was transferred by a Soviet dictator in 1954.

It’s an excuse. Vlad wants his ice free port. It’s an excuse.

That may seem sacrosanct to you, but it doesn’t to those who have thrown off the Soviet stranglehold.

Are you serious? THE UKRAINIANS “THREW OFF THE SOVIET STRANGLEHOLD”! Do you know how many Ukrainians were systematically starved by the Russians? They sure as hell haven’t forgotten.

Thats right. He took what he wanted. Welcome to the real world.

Glad we are clear that you are defending neo-soviet aggression.

The question is why the west should be supporting the Kiev government

Because Russia is an international bad actor. It supports despicable regimes in Iran, Syria and elsewhere. It is a strategic competitor, it still has ICBMs aimed at us and our allies. It is an expansionist, unfree, belligerent thorn in our side run by a KGB thug that imprisons people for criticizing him, steals private property and has set himself up as indefinite leader by surrounding himself with oligarchs and cronies who have gotten rich by confiscating other peoples property by force and intimidation. We should be supporting an independent Ukraine as a buffer between Russia and a very nervous Eastern Europe, we should be supporting them because we need to check a bully before he becomes unmanageable, we should be supporting them so when we tell people that we will offer them our support it will mean something.

The Soviet Union is gone. GROW UP!

LOL, Putin thinks that is one of histories greatest tragedies and is intent on restoring whatever he can.

When nuclear weapons are used in a violation of their borders. That hasn’t happened.

“The United States of America, the Russian Federation, and the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, reaffirm their commitment….to respect the Independence and Sovereignty and the existing borders of Ukraine.” – Budapest Memorandum
Regardless, if we won’t bother to do anything to keep our word then other nations will notice.

Not everything in life is some cheesy, two-dimensional, black and white morality play.

Your moral equivalence is another excuse, and you can’t have it both ways:

Thats right. He took what he wanted. Welcome to the real world.

Looks pretty black and white when you put that way. Cue the backpedalling.

V7_Sport on March 13, 2014 at 11:43 PM

Milosevic Isn’t Hitler.
sharrukin on March 13, 2014 at 11:07 PM

Gotta disagree about Milosevic.

annoyinglittletwerp on March 13, 2014 at 11:49 PM

Further i am not a troll but a registered member of the highest standing for over six years.

frank on March 13, 2014 at 11:32 PM

I have been a registered member of the highest standing for a couple years now, since there is only one “standing” for registered members. And you’re spewing forth propaganda, lies, misinformation, etc, for mass-murdering thugs. That makes you a troll.

John Hitchcock on March 13, 2014 at 11:52 PM

Gotta disagree about Milosevic.

annoyinglittletwerp on March 13, 2014 at 11:49 PM

He was a bad guy as were most of the leaders and factions in that bloody civil war. He wasn’t anywhere close to being as much of a threat as Hitler was.

sharrukin on March 13, 2014 at 11:57 PM

Frank

Suffice to say that King Lazar was dining off gold flatware whilst the majority of your ancestors were wiping their tails with their hands. I have no use for fraudulent Slavs; and to the Cro, no matter what it takes i will rout you out.

Shockingly enough, you are so thick that dropping a few hundred thousand tons of TNT on your little mud hole didn’t get your attention. But hey, congratulations on that flatware thing. You can cling to that knowing that the Serbs big contribution to modernity was the “Yugo”.

Further i am not a troll but a registered member of the highest standing for over six years.

Troll or no, serious or not (and I suspect that you are, you know all the little catch phrases) you are an asshole. If you are hiding in the USA while excusing the crimes of the Russians and the Serbs, that makes you a coward as well.

V7_Sport on March 13, 2014 at 11:58 PM

John Hitchcock on March 13, 2014 at 11:52 PM

Registered members, not any, require “standing” this forum, as you know or by all rights should know; is not a court of law. Therefore standing never enters the picture.

Interesting, however, that you should mention “propaganda” as your spewing of the same reveals an anti-Serb bias that you should be truly ashamed of.

I cannot, and will not, continence the lies & will expose the anti-Serb liars though the heavens will fall.

frank on March 14, 2014 at 12:13 AM

I cannot, and will not, continence the lies & will expose the anti-Serb liars though the heavens will fall.

frank on March 14, 2014 at 12:13 AM

Ah, yes. You are, of course, positively 100% correct. ‘erybuddy knows that the claims of the massacres of civilians like the case of the Drina River were all the product of agitprop and propaganda. All of those dozens of Bosnian bodies dumped in the river were actually just the result of a mass suicide wherein the conspirators – acting in this false-flag operation with their partners in the Bosnian political leadership – shot themselves in the head before throwing themselves into the water.

Resist We Much on March 14, 2014 at 12:27 AM

Resist We Much on March 14, 2014 at 12:27 AMResist We Much on March 14, 2014 at 12:27 AM

More Albright, anti-Serb propaganda.

But the stretch for giving false citations to comments never made and slandering an entire nation is a small one, no?

frank on March 14, 2014 at 12:41 AM

Interesting that I point out his “highest standing” crapola (in his defense of “not being a troll”) and then he tries to slather me with — SQUIRREL!

Frank sounds, to me, like all the other holocaust deniers: shrill, arrogant, terrorist-loving sycophants.

John Hitchcock on March 14, 2014 at 1:07 AM

Interesting that I point out his “highest standing” crapola (in his defense of “not being a troll”) and then he tries to slather me with — SQUIRREL!
Frank sounds, to me, like all the other

holocaust deniers: shrill, arrogant, terrorist-loving sycophants.
John Hitchcock on March 14, 2014 at 1:07 AM

Who now there’s a stretch! Worthy of the lowliest of trolls.

frank on March 14, 2014 at 1:12 AM

More Albright, anti-Serb propaganda.

But the stretch for giving false citations to comments never made and slandering an entire nation is a small one, no?

frank on March 14, 2014 at 12:41 AM

I know, I know! Everything the Serbs is completely moral, legal, and entirely beyond reproach. They were the victims of evil and dastardly conspirators like the Neo-Cons, Israel-Firsters, Bilderbergers, Socialists, Fascists, Communists, NWO, Tri-Lateralists, CFRers, FEMA Camp Guards, Chemtrail Pilots, Vaccine Scientisst, Secret Water Fluorinators, Black Helicopter Pilot, False-Flag Planner, MK-ULTRA Practitioner, Paid Propagandists, the Clinton administration, Elvis, the ghosts of such figures as Lee Harvey Oswald, Jack Ruby, Idi Amin, Henry VIII, CIA agents, MI6 agents, Q, DGSE infiltrators, Mossad operative, Abbot & Costello, The Three Stooges, Howard Zinn devotees, and a drag queen by the name of ‘Lypsynka,’ who is the secret love child of Jocelyn Wildenstein and Moammar Qaddafi.

As far as Albright is concerned, I don’t know what she said. Not only was I in my teens or early 20s and living in London, I opposed British and American intervention.

Once again – and with feeling – please see The Mo Doctrine:

The Mo Doctrine

(For those of you, who are unaware, “Mo” is a nickname of mine)

1) The United States should only get involved in conflicts abroad where there is a direct and imminent threat to the nation and its security.

2) The United States should stay out of civil wars.

3) If war is declared upon us, CRUSH, and I mean C-R-U-S-H, the enemy.

As the ever-helpful MarshFox reminded me:

“To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentations of their women!”

- Conan the Barbarian

4) Fight to win or stay home.

5) The United States has an abysmal record of siding with despots, arming radical extremists and terrorists, and propping up tinpot dictators. Know your enemy, your “ally,” recognise self-determination, and MYOB.

(No installing new governments then “finding out who or what is in it”)

6) Unless the United States is under attack or imminent threat of attack, the President must get Congressional approval for all actions involving military operations abroad pursuant to Art. I, Sec. 8, Clause 11 and the War Powers Resolution Act.

7) When people want to kill each other, let them.

Pay particular to interest in #1, #2, and #7.

I am not ‘slandering’ (FYI: slander is oral, not written words, ‘an entire nation.’ Unlike you, I don’t blindly, obsessively, and dishonestly blame an entire people for the actions of some. In your book, it would appear, that the Serbs were without fault, committed no violations of the laws of war while the Bosnians and Kosovars were responsible for every atrocity, oppression, and crimes against humanity. When I refer to ‘the Serbs,’ I am referring to the politicians, military, militia, and those ordinary Serbs that engaged in criminal behaviour.

When George M Cohan wrote ‘Over There,’ he didn’t mean that every single American was going to invade Europe when his lyrics said:

Over there, over there
Send the word, send the word over there
That the Yanks are coming, the Yanks are coming
The drums are rum-tumming everywhere

I feel quite sad and embarrassed for you. Blindly defending the actions of any country and its leaders, especially thugs like Milošević and Putin. It is a tough, self-demeaning, thankless, and esteem-destroying undertaking. Although i was born a British subject, who became a naturalised American, I couldn’t imagine any circumstance where I would defend my homeland after it invaded and occupied India, for example. If I did, whenever I looked into a mirror, I would see a pathetic individual with a lame argument interwoven throughout with the odious notion of moral relativism.

Resist We Much on March 14, 2014 at 1:38 AM

Resist We Much on March 14, 2014 at 1:38 AM

I see you’re big on suppositions

frank on March 14, 2014 at 7:04 AM

I see you’re big on suppositions

frank on March 14, 2014 at 7:04 AM

I see that you want it both ways. You accused me of parroting Madeline Albright…as if I paid attention to her then or would listen to a word she said about anything now.

Resist We Much on March 14, 2014 at 8:12 AM

So it sounds like Eastern Ukraine is next. Frank, when should Poland accede to the coming territorial demands from the new USSR?

Zomcon JEM on March 14, 2014 at 11:10 AM

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