Special election in FL-13 today: Jolly vs Sink

posted at 9:21 am on March 11, 2014 by Ed Morrissey

If today is the first test of the 2014 midterm elections, then Republicans start off on the defensive. The death of Rep. Bill Young after 42 years in Congress forced a special election in Florida’s 13th Congressional District to fill out the rest of his term. The battle between former Young aide David Jolly and failed gubernatorial candidate Alex Sink ends today, along with the open seat in the narrowly Republican district:

Republicans have relentlessly focused on Sink’s support for Obamacare, which she says she supports even if it is not perfect and still needs some fixing itself.

“We can’t go back to letting insurance companies do whatever they want,” she says in a television ad, the Associated Press reported. “Instead of repealing the health law, we need to keep what’s right and fix what’s wrong.”

It has become the signature issue of the race, and Republicans hope that a win could preview the November elections by illustrating how toxic the healthcare law has become for Democratic candidates, specifically vulnerable Democratic Senators targeted by the GOP this cycle.

If Sink were to win, on the other hand, it could embolden Democrats, demonstrating that support for the healthcare law was not the albatross that some have made it out to be.

The Hill’s Alexandra Jaffe wonders whether either candidate deserves to win so much as to not lose:

Lackluster candidates, millions spent, a third-party candidate: Every detail of Tuesday’s special election in Florida’s 13th District makes it unusual, but the bellwether district is still the first indication of the 2014 electoral mood.

Regardless of outside factors in the critical region, the winning party will try to spin the results of the first midterm test as a harbinger for their party’s messages this fall.

“This is not about [Democrat] Alex Sink and [Republican] David Jolly,” said Mike Fasano, a former Florida GOP state House and Senate member. “This is about what’s happening in Washington and who happens to be more unpopular than the other party.”

Stakes are highest for Democrats, even though they don’t hold the vacant seat once held by the late Rep. Bill Young (R-Fla.).

Facing a 17-seat deficit in the House, Democrats can’t afford to lose one of the few toss-up seats left in the country. Such a failure would undercut their message that they can put GOP-leaning seats on the map or even compete in places where President Obama narrowly won in 2012.

Of course, one could argue that Republicans need to show that they can hold swing districts in the absence of incumbents, too. This Congress has already seen a number of retirements on both sides of the aisle, after all, and there may still be time for a few more. If the GOP can’t hold its R+1 districts, even in a special election when voting patterns may take surprising twists, it might not look good for Republicans in November.

There hasn’t been much polling in this race, which is typical for special House elections, but what polling exists shows a toss-up. PPP puts Sink slightly ahead at 48/45, with another 6% going to a Libertarian Party candidate, and that’s with a sample with an R+7 edge. Only 21% of that sample was below 45 years of age, too, which may well reflect the electorate in a special election, but won’t help Sink much.

The US Chamber of Commerce poll puts Jolly ahead 44/42, though in a smaller sample. The bigger takeaway from that poll is that ObamaCare — which Sink supports — is underwater in the district, 39/54. Interestingly and tellingly, PPP never bothered to ask that question, which has been the biggest policy issue in the campaign. Instead, PPP asked a question about the prioritization of “climate change” agenda, where only 44% thought it was “very important” — opposed to 25% who thought it was “somewhat important,” and 29% who thought it was “not that important.”

This one is too close to call, but will be fascinating to unpack when it’s over. The winner will have to fight this battle again in the fall, too, for another term. It might be a day or two before we know which candidate has to worry about it.

Update: Guy Benson e-mails me to note that Barack Obama won this district in both of his presidential elections, which shows the nature of this swing district; Young won it both times for the GOP. Obama’s turnout models won’t be what we see today, though.


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“Instead of repealing the health law, we need to keep what’s right and fix what’s wrong.”

Keep ‘what’s right’?

LOL.

BigWyo on March 11, 2014 at 9:23 AM

This one is too close to call, but will be fascinating to unpack when it’s over. The winner will have to fight this battle again in the fall, too, for another term. It might be a day or two before we know which candidate has to worry about it.

I wouldn’t be surprised that a close election would mean that this exact same race is fought again in November.

Happy Nomad on March 11, 2014 at 9:26 AM

Keep ‘what’s right’?

LOL.

BigWyo on March 11, 2014 at 9:23 AM

Keep what’s right is Washington speak for “keep what polls well.” You aren’t going have any candidate talk about repealing the provision about pre-existing conditions, for example, because the sheeple like that one.

Happy Nomad on March 11, 2014 at 9:28 AM

Good Luck Mr. Jolly. Fingers crossed for you.

hawkdriver on March 11, 2014 at 9:28 AM

The death of Rep. Bill Young after 42 years in Congress forced a special election in Florida’s 13th Congressional District to fill out the rest of his term.

Term limits.

MisterElephant on March 11, 2014 at 9:29 AM

You people in St. Pete don’t want a shrew. Trust me.

Lanceman on March 11, 2014 at 9:32 AM

jolly’s got this…++early R vote and sink depending on the ????crossover vote…what would that be??…and the ???independent vote.. and the ???libertarian vote….really…you are sunk sink in this special election and the next….your ovaries and name and condo in the district will fall short. please move.

gracie on March 11, 2014 at 9:33 AM

Died in office? After 42 years? Joy.

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 9:35 AM

What is most sad is you have to wait 42 years to get another rep.

crankyoldlady on March 11, 2014 at 9:35 AM

p.s. ppp = pis* poor polling

remember that when it goes with you or against you…don’t bank on it

gracie on March 11, 2014 at 9:35 AM

Died in office? After 42 years? Joy.

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 9:35 AM

42 years in the same job and not one promotion? I guess he didn’t have any ambition. ;0

Happy Nomad on March 11, 2014 at 9:37 AM

Whatever the outcome, GOP needs to address this ongoing issue of faux libertarian third party candidates. That’s the Dem playbook now.

monalisa on March 11, 2014 at 9:38 AM

Is Charlie Crist going to do a very last minute plea for a write-in campaign; the man is applying for every other political job in America.

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 9:39 AM

What is most sad is you have to wait 42 years to get another rep.

crankyoldlady on March 11, 2014 at 9:35 AM

Hey, my Congresscritter is retiring after 24 years. Unfortunately he isn’t dead. The food fight among the Demonrats to replace him has been fun to watch.

Happy Nomad on March 11, 2014 at 9:40 AM

Hey, my Congresscritter is retiring after 24 years. Unfortunately he isn’t dead. The food fight among the Demonrats to replace him has been fun to watch.

Happy Nomad on March 11, 2014 at 9:40 AM

I’ll be mildly surprised if Paul Wellstone isn’t reelected here and he’s been dead for 11 years.

There are people in Minneapolis who would happily dress his mouldering corpse in a new suit and tie him upright in a chair.

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 9:41 AM

Will Sink sink? She does have the advantage of not being an incumbent so can distance herself from Obamacare. Because of this, this may not be a “typical” election where many Democrats will sink with their affirmative Obamacare vote.. Let’s hope Jolly gets his jollies.

MaiDee on March 11, 2014 at 9:43 AM

Is Charlie Crist going to do a very last minute plea for a write-in campaign; the man is applying for every other political job in America.

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 9:39 AM

Wouldn’t surprise me at all. He’s anybody’s dog who’ll walk him.

katy the mean old lady on March 11, 2014 at 9:43 AM

Died in office? After 42 years? Joy.

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 9:35 AM

Even God thought he’d served long enough.

CurtZHP on March 11, 2014 at 9:43 AM

I’m watching the tweet stream for #FL13. My heavens, the bulloney the Dems are saying about the evil Republicans would be hilarious, except that unfortunately many liv will believe it.

You people in St. Pete don’t want a shrew. Trust me.

Lanceman March 11, 2014 at 9:32 AM

Word. Jolly’s got some flaws, but I’ll take him over Sink anytime.

Flora Duh on March 11, 2014 at 9:44 AM

PPP puts Sink slightly ahead at 48/45, with another 6% going to a Libertarian Party candidate

Funny how there is always a libertarian candidate in these elections getting just enough of the vote to give it to the Dems.

Zaggs on March 11, 2014 at 9:45 AM

Hey Voters of the Sunshine state.

If you don’t vote for Sink, she’ll have to find
someone other than illegals to cut her grass, and do
her landscaping!!

ToddPA on March 11, 2014 at 9:45 AM

Subsunk would never have voted for Sink, right?

Lanceman on March 11, 2014 at 9:47 AM

Is Charlie Crist going to do a very last minute plea for a write-in campaign; the man is applying for every other political job in America.

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 9:39 AM

Wouldn’t surprise me at all. He’s anybody’s dog who’ll walk him.

katy the mean old lady on March 11, 2014 at 9:43 AM

I figured him for an orange Shitzu….

ToddPA on March 11, 2014 at 9:47 AM

Wouldn’t surprise me at all. He’s anybody’s dog who’ll walk him.

katy the mean old lady on March 11, 2014 at 9:43 AM

Well the GOP needs a few cats like this:

(Reuters) – A rampaging, 22-pound Oregon house cat with a “history of violence” attacked a baby and trapped a family and their dog in a bedroom at their Portland home before being captured by police, authorities said on Monday.

In other words, this is war and the GOP needs warriors not yappy little orange-colored chihuahuas.

Happy Nomad on March 11, 2014 at 9:48 AM

Whatever the outcome, GOP needs to address this ongoing issue of faux libertarian third party candidates. That’s the Dem playbook now.

monalisa on March 11, 2014 at 9:38 AM

Good point. Too many are more interested in burning the house down than exterminating the termites.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 9:48 AM

She does have the advantage of not being an incumbent so can distance herself from Obamacare. Because of this, this may not be a “typical” election where many Democrats will sink with their affirmative Obamacare vote.. Let’s hope Jolly gets his jollies.

MaiDee on March 11, 2014 at 9:43 AM

She’s embraced it.

Flora Duh on March 11, 2014 at 9:48 AM

In other words, this is war and the GOP needs warriors not yappy little orange-colored chihuahuas.

Happy Nomad on March 11, 2014 at 9:48 AM

War is a poor analogy. Politics is a battle for hearts and minds. That means persuasion, not battle hymns, saber rattling and bomb throwing.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 9:51 AM

I’ll be mildly surprised if Paul Wellstone isn’t reelected here and he’s been dead for 11 years.

There are people in Minneapolis who would happily dress his mouldering corpse in a new suit and tie him upright in a chair.

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 9:41 AM

Hey, if that woman found mummified in Detroit can still be voting two years after she supposedly died, why wouldn’t the lizard people of Minneapolis support Wellstone? Is there really all that much difference between a mouldering corpse and the last years of Robert “sheets” Byrd or Strom Thurmond?

Happy Nomad on March 11, 2014 at 9:52 AM

War is a poor analogy. Politics is a battle for hearts and minds. That means persuasion, not battle hymns, saber rattling and bomb throwing.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 9:51 AM

Dems are already waging war and you want to hold a cotillion to make friends. That’s about the most stupid thing I’ve read this morning. You really think that you can battle for hearts and minds when the enemy has seized all the media outlets and has perverted the rule of law? A mind-numbingly stupid strategy!

Happy Nomad on March 11, 2014 at 9:54 AM

I hope the conventional GOP candidate doesn’t blow another winnable seat.

forest on March 11, 2014 at 9:55 AM

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 9:41 AM

I hope I don’t have to tell you that Norm didn’t lose, I hope. He beat your boy Fritz. Unexpectedly.

Lanceman on March 11, 2014 at 9:55 AM

It probably doesn’t matter who wins. The Dems will cheat.

crankyoldlady on March 11, 2014 at 9:57 AM

you want to hold a cotillion to make friends.

Happy Nomad on March 11, 2014 at 9:54 AM

That is what politics is. You know, forging a winning coalition to get more votes than the other side?

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 9:59 AM

War is a poor analogy. Politics is a battle for hearts and minds. That means persuasion, not battle hymns, saber rattling and bomb throwing.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 9:51 AM

War works for the Dems. You just want to pander.

Bitter Clinger on March 11, 2014 at 10:00 AM

Happy Nomad on March 11, 2014 at 9:54 AM

It means, you dumb homophobe, that we need to find someone electable such as former presidents Bob Dole, McCain, or Romney.

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 10:01 AM

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 10:01 AM

That is the battle cry of the hotheads.

News flash: the fact that they lost does not imply that any other candidate would have won. In fact, the fact that they won the party nomination strongly indicates that the others would have lost the election by an even greater margin.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 10:02 AM

Whatever the outcome, GOP needs to address this ongoing issue of faux libertarian third party candidates. That’s the Dem playbook now.

monalisa on March 11, 2014 at 9:38 AM

You’re right. They used a fake tea party candidate in a NY district and it worked.

magicbeans on March 11, 2014 at 10:02 AM

War works for the Dems. You just want to pander.

Bitter Clinger on March 11, 2014 at 10:00 AM

Pandering is making promises that you know you could never fulfill. You know, like Palin, Bachman, Cruz and every TP candidate who ever lived.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 10:03 AM

That is what politics is. You know, forging a winning coalition to get more votes than the other side?

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 9:59 AM

You really don’t get it, do you. The war is already engaged. You’re suggesting that the GOP stick flowers in the enemies rifle barrels just to make friends. Which is great until they open fire.

The way to coalition-building is through having a strong message that resonates with voters. It is not sitting around in a circle and chatting with the enemy.

Happy Nomad on March 11, 2014 at 10:05 AM

Pandering is making promises that you know you could never fulfill. You know, like Palin, Bachman, Cruz and every TP candidate who ever lived.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 10:03 AM

You’re right.

Which is why we should nominate candidates like Arlen Specter, William Weld and Colin Powell.

sentinelrules on March 11, 2014 at 10:07 AM

…sink…or swim?

KOOLAID2 on March 11, 2014 at 10:07 AM

that we need to find someone electable such as former presidents Bob Dole, McCain, or Romney.

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 10:01 AM

Yeah, the reason why the GOP keeps losing is that we end up nominating candidates that haven’t been endorsed by the Demonrats as electable. Chris Christie looks to be the latest victim. He’s got all the right credentials and enthusiasm by the left but those tea baggers just don’t want to listen.

Happy Nomad on March 11, 2014 at 10:08 AM

That is the battle cry of the hotheads.

News flash: the fact that they lost does not imply that any other candidate would have won. In fact, the fact that they won the party nomination strongly indicates that the others would have lost the election by an even greater margin.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 10:02 AM

ROFL

What it does mean without any supposition is that those three candidates DID lose and obviously that is inarguable. You can imply or present “strong indicators” that other people would have lost too but that’s all you got which is nothing, a political version of Global Warming.

So yeah let’s keep trying by putting forward demorat-lite gladhanders who get out-liberaled by actual liberals.

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 10:08 AM

Pandering is making promises that you know you could never fulfill. You know, like Palin, Bachman, Cruz and every TP candidate who ever lived.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 10:03 AM

Uh, sure. Like amnesty isn’t one big pander to the Hispanic community that will never be fulfilled. Got it.

Bitter Clinger on March 11, 2014 at 10:10 AM

Happy Nomad on March 11, 2014 at 10:05 AM

And having a strong message that does not resonate with voters is a certain way to lose. Another way to lose is to make your platform all about stuff that voters don’t care about and ignoring what they do care about. Another way to lose is putting up rival candidates to ensure the D’s win. Another way to lose is to stay home because the R fails any one of your dozen litmus tests.

This should all sound very, very familiar to you because you keep agitating for all of the above.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 10:11 AM

Please note – FL-13 is not really Bill Young’s old district he held for 40+ years. This is a new district drawn after 2010 and is bluer than the old Young district. It does not include the bluest part of southern Pinellas county, downtown St. Pete (That’s part of Kathy Castor’s (D) district), but neither does it include the redest part of the county either, northern Pinellas (That is part of Gus Bilarakis’s (R) district). This really is a toss-up area. I live here…

The Libertarian Lucas Overby will decide this one… If he gets as much as the 7% in the election that he’s been polling, Jolly is sunk and Sink wins.

HornHiAceDeuce on March 11, 2014 at 10:12 AM

Ha! You Truecons should listen to the wisdom of Bruti! He’s a freakin’ genius!!!

-Meredith

Lanceman on March 11, 2014 at 10:12 AM

Pandering is making promises that you know you could never fulfill. You know, like Palin, Bachman, Cruz and every TP candidate who ever lived.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 10:03 AM

Well when a TP candidate gets the opportunity to effect change in a party filled with surrender weasels who make the same stupid argument you do about making friends, not war, is the way to victory. The fat man even told CPAC that conservatives should STFU and pander for votes instead of leading by principled vision.

I repeat, we are at war even if you want to sing the Girl Scout Song:

Make new friends,
but keep the old.
One is silver,
the other is gold.

That might work around a campfire but it doesn’t work in the real world of politics.

Happy Nomad on March 11, 2014 at 10:13 AM

Another way to lose is to stay home because the R fails any one of your dozen litmus tests.

This should all sound very, very familiar to you because you keep agitating for all of the above.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 10:11 AM

And yet another way to lose is to nominate people who tell everyone that their opponent is actually a really nice guy and would make a great preznit.

#McCainSaidWHAT?

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 10:14 AM

And having a strong message that does not resonate with voters is a certain way to lose. Another way to lose is to make your platform all about stuff that voters don’t care about and ignoring what they do care about. Another way to lose is putting up rival candidates to ensure the D’s win. Another way to lose is to stay home because the R fails any one of your dozen litmus tests.

This should all sound very, very familiar to you because you keep agitating for all of the above.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 10:11 AM

Yeah, who’d be concerned about things like jobs, the economy, taxes, ObamaCare. Let’s worry about the BIG stuff like amnesty.

Bitter Clinger on March 11, 2014 at 10:14 AM

Like amnesty isn’t one big pander to the Hispanic community that will never be fulfilled. Got it.

Bitter Clinger on March 11, 2014 at 10:10 AM

Hey, never is a long time. Obama still has three more years, a pen, and a phone. Nevermind that Obamacare took amnesty off the table (originally scheduled as the big issue of 2010) and the gays are going to be really steamed when they finally realize that they’re behind the illegals on a list of groups to pander to.

Happy Nomad on March 11, 2014 at 10:17 AM

I’d have scrubbed all my garbage posts at kos too.

Murphy9 on March 11, 2014 at 10:17 AM

Yeah, who’d be concerned about things like jobs, the economy, taxes, ObamaCare. Let’s worry about the BIG stuff like amnesty.

Bitter Clinger on March 11, 2014 at 10:14 AM

Jobs, the economy, taxes, and Obamacare are things that only concern the suckers people who work for a living and contribute to society. Doesn’t register with MJB and the demographic the left is going out after.

Happy Nomad on March 11, 2014 at 10:18 AM

Or we could elect people who say that they’re going to crush fellow Republican candidates but who never use similar language against demorats.

Nothing makes me want to vote GOP like being told to sit down and shut up.

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 10:19 AM

44% of PPP’s sample considers ‘global warming’ “very important”? Sounds like a typical PPP sample (i.e. One that has nothing to do with the actual electorate).

If you need 44% libtards to make Sink a slight favorite, then Jolly should have this in the bag.

Texastoast on March 11, 2014 at 10:22 AM

If you need 44% libtards to make Sink a slight favorite, then Jolly should have this in the bag.

Texastoast on March 11, 2014 at 10:22 AM

bingo

gracie on March 11, 2014 at 10:26 AM

Or we could elect people who say that they’re going to crush fellow Republican candidates but who never use similar language against demorats.

Nothing makes me want to vote GOP like being told to sit down and shut up.

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 10:19 AM

Don’t know about anyone else…but as a Lifelong Steelers fan,
I’ve been wanting the Eagles to Crush them….

ToddPA on March 11, 2014 at 10:28 AM

Whatever the outcome, GOP needs to address this ongoing issue of faux libertarian third party candidates. That’s the Dem playbook now.

monalisa on March 11, 2014 at 9:38 AM

Good point. Too many are more interested in burning the house down than exterminating the termites.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 9:48 AM

And the non-sequitur of the day award goes to…

Midas on March 11, 2014 at 10:35 AM

The correct path is to just accept that although the termites are eating the house, at least they’re agreeable to eating it slower than the other breed of termites.

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 10:38 AM

That is what politics is. You know, forging a winning coalition to get more votes than the other side?

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 9:59 AM

You know, I’m still, despite all the insults hurled at Conservatives, hoping for a good turnout this year and maintaining The House and flipping the Senate. But you really need to read what you write and try to imagine how disingenuous you sound to someone like me. I’m Conservative Party to be sure. About two years now I think. But my roots since the first year I voted are in either very Conservative Democrats (my family was) or Republicans and the GOP after I joined the Armed Forces and looked to Reagan.

You talk about building coalitions? Reaching out? Whatever. But your comment history is easily demonstrated to be giving lip-service to some issues (I guess to pacify Conservatives) that you’ve now gone full Donk on. Amnesty for one. And you constantly and actively try to alienate or outright call for no influence from Conservative members of your own alleged membership in the GOP. You have an absolute right to try to influence the electorate with your comments here. But given a chance to bet, I wager you are either not anymore a GOP member than obama himself. Maybe giving you some credit for honesty, you’re just an extremely liberal GOP member and fiscal responsibility is what you think you’ll derive from the votes you claim you give them. And how has that worked out.

The bottom line is there aren’t many real issues left that I’m willing to put my heart and soul into considering what we’ve lost in the last 5 years. Any that I really care about, the GOP seems unable or undetermined to get back. I can honestly say without exaggeration we really have gotten to a point where people like you are near indistinguishable from any Democrat you might talk to.

Honest words here without trying to be insulting.

hawkdriver on March 11, 2014 at 10:39 AM

The Libertarian Lucas Overby will decide this one… If he gets as much as the 7% in the election that he’s been polling, Jolly is sunk and Sink wins.

HornHiAceDeuce on March 11, 2014 at 10:12 AM

Is he legit, or a Dem plant?

Midas on March 11, 2014 at 10:44 AM

My mama always taught me to hope for the best but expect the worst. Sink & her ilk have been running tons of “Lobbyist Jolly wants to gut SocSec & Medicare” ads to scare the pee out of all the grandmas in Pinellas. Those seniors may be Repubs, but in the end they’re terrified by Mediscare strategy. I worry that it just might work.

KKinFLA on March 11, 2014 at 10:46 AM

Happy Nomad on March 11, 2014 at 10:18 AM

Those are the things they should talk about. But the GOP is more interested in telling us who and who cannot get married or how old a fetus must before before a woman can no longer end her pregnancy.

And the TP critters, when they do talk about those things do so in a way that is certain to alienate the most number of people in the most lasting and memorable manner.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 10:47 AM

That is what politics is. You know, forging a winning coalition to get more votes than the other side?

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 9:59 AM

… says the cheerleader for the guys vowing to crush their own conservative base. You might try tasting your own medicine – and recommending it for your establishment friends – once in awhile.

Imagine if the GOP tried working with conservatives as much as they try working with the Democrats.

Imagine if the GOP went to war with the Democrats with as much enthusiasm as they go to war with conservatives.

Until then, yeah… STFU.

Midas on March 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM

Whatever the outcome, GOP needs to address this ongoing issue of faux libertarian third party candidates. That’s the Dem playbook now.

monalisa on March 11, 2014 at 9:38 AM

I’m hoping that Rand Paul robo calling on behalf of Jolly will turn the tide for him.

I know the Dems run the fake Libertarians, but so do the R’s. Especially if a Tea Party Candidate or Conservative is running.

Former Republican U.S. Senator Dick Lugar (R-IN) has donated $5,000 to the Democratic candidate for U.S. Senate in Georgia.

bluefox on March 11, 2014 at 10:50 AM

hawkdriver on March 11, 2014 at 10:39 AM

This just in: I try to look at each issue on its own merits. Sometimes the Donks are right (such as amnesty) so I side with them. Usually they are not, however.

My loyalty is to my country, not to a party and not to an ideology.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 10:51 AM

Midas on March 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM

The TP is not the GOP’s base. They make it quite clear at each and every opportunity that they want to distance themselves and undermine the party. So, of course the GOP should (metaphorically and politically) crush the dissenters.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 10:53 AM

Honest words here without trying to be insulting.

hawkdriver on March 11, 2014 at 10:39 AM

Well said, but wasted effort, imo. May as well preach to libfree or nonp.

Midas on March 11, 2014 at 10:56 AM

My loyalty is to my country, not to a party and not to an ideology.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 10:51 AM

The TP is not the GOP’s base. They make it quite clear at each and every opportunity that they want to distance themselves and undermine the party. So, of course the GOP should (metaphorically and politically) crush the dissenters.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 10:53 AM

ROFL

“I’m not a Party man but I believe the Party should crush those who dare to question the Party.”

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAAAAAAAAAA

*cough cough*

My sides hurt!

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 10:57 AM

hawkdriver on March 11, 2014 at 10:39 AM

This just in: I try to look at each issue on its own merits. Sometimes the Donks are right (such as amnesty) so I side with them. Usually they are not, however.

My loyalty is to my country, not to a party and not to an ideology.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 10:51 AM

This just in. Take a break from being an ass when someone is being civil with you. Let me narrow my previous point. Where you even differ with them anymore?

hawkdriver on March 11, 2014 at 10:57 AM

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 10:57 AM

Yes, yes. I know that pointing one’s finger and crying “hypocrite” is a favorite pastime around here. But you got it wrong again. One can express what the GOP ought to do without being a loyalist of the party.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 10:59 AM

hawkdriver on March 11, 2014 at 10:39 AM

Well said, but wasted effort, imo. May as well preach to libfree or nonp.

Midas on March 11, 2014 at 10:56 AM

No illusions here.

hawkdriver on March 11, 2014 at 10:59 AM

The TP is not the GOP’s base. They make it quite clear at each and every opportunity that they want to distance themselves and undermine the party. So, of course the GOP should (metaphorically and politically) crush the dissenters.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 10:53 AM

Categorically ‘were’ the GOP base. ‘Not’ if the GOP continues to insist on suicidal behavior. You know, like the batshit crazy crap you keep regurgitating.

Midas on March 11, 2014 at 11:00 AM

Yes, yes. I know that pointing one’s finger and crying “hypocrite” is a favorite pastime around here. But you got it wrong again. One can express what the GOP ought to do without being a loyalist of the party.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 10:59 AM

Can one express what the GOP ought to do without being told to toe the line or they will be crushed? You know, like a TP’er?

Apparently not since you just said that.

This just gets better and better.

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 11:02 AM

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 11:02 AM

You seem to think that being told to not actively work to undermine the party’s candidates and initiatives is the equivalent to “toeing the line.” You’re not helping yourself.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 11:05 AM

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 10:57 AM

Yes, yes. I know that pointing one’s finger and crying “hypocrite” is a favorite pastime around here. But you got it wrong again. One can express what the GOP ought to do without being a loyalist of the party.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 10:59 AM

Right.

Actually Bishop nailed it.

If nothing else is to be taken from this thread, folks commenting here should just take anything you write with a huge grain of salt. Your claims of supporting the GOP as you ever move just to the left of their own movement to the left has … left me skeptical.

As if most of us weren’t already.

hawkdriver on March 11, 2014 at 11:07 AM

The TP is not the GOP’s base. They make it quite clear at each and every opportunity that they want to distance themselves and undermine the party. So, of course the GOP should (metaphorically and politically) crush the dissenters.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 10:53 AM

The passing of Obamacare is what started the Tea Party. These are Americans across the Country & not a Political party. We want to defeat those Republicans that have worked with this Administration and Democrats by their votes to pass this Anti-Freedom Agenda.

These Republicans have not only betrayed their Party Platform, but every American & their Country. They deserve to be defeated. The Tea Party and Conservatives’ motives are honorable; these describeed Republicans are not.

I asked another commenter yesterday to name one piece of legislation that these Republicans have voted for & passed that has been Pro American and promoted Freedom. He chose not to answer, so maybe you could.

bluefox on March 11, 2014 at 11:08 AM

You seem to think that being told to not actively work to undermine the party’s candidates and initiatives is the equivalent to “toeing the line.” You’re not helping yourself.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 11:05 AM

Being told? Being told by whom, exactly? Being told what? Who gets to do the telling and how did they get chosen?

For supposedly not being a Party man you seem to have an extreme predilection for advocating that the Party defines all the views of its members. Don’t we want a vibrant debate or is the goal here a bunch of elected drones who pull the lever how and when they’re told?

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 11:09 AM

For supposedly not being a Party man you seem to have an extreme predilection for advocating that the Party defines all the views of its members. Don’t we want a vibrant debate or is the goal here a bunch of elected drones who pull the lever how and when they’re told?

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 11:09 AM

Couldn’t have said it better. I think I’ll just check out on that note.

hawkdriver on March 11, 2014 at 11:11 AM

The strange part is that the “dissenters”, as MJBrutus calls us, just want to uphold the party platform. The crushers want to abandon it.

cptacek on March 11, 2014 at 11:12 AM

If nothing else is to be taken from this thread, folks commenting here should just take anything you write with a huge grain of salt. Your claims of supporting the GOP as you ever move just to the left of their own movement to the left has … left me skeptical.

As if most of us weren’t already.

hawkdriver on March 11, 2014 at 11:07 AM

That’s about the extent of his comments, a huge statist streak while spouting “I put my country first!”

It’s the demorats who expect everyone to do as they’re told and for the most part they’re successful, and look at the destructiveness they produce.

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 11:13 AM

Imagine if the GOP tried working with conservatives as much as they try working with the Democrats.

Imagine if the GOP went to war with the Democrats with as much enthusiasm as they go to war with conservatives.

Until then, yeah… STFU.

Midas on March 11, 2014 at 10:49 AM

Isn’t that the truth!!!

Rand Paul was just asked by Buck Sexton, hosting Glenn Beck’s radio show what he thot about McConnell’s latest threat on the Tea Party & Conservatives. His answer, he skirted the question and talked about CPAC and blah, blah, blah. In other words, he didn’t answer. That is why he gets criticized, he never makes himself clear and his positions are always changing.

bluefox on March 11, 2014 at 11:17 AM

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 11:09 AM

You people are a riot. You complain about me because I don’t “toe the party line” such as on immigration, same sex marriage and abortion. You then devote (what is this, your 3rd or 4th post on the subject) your time to calling me a party loyalist. Let me take a stab at your game, “Hypocrisy, thy name is Bishop!”

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 11:17 AM

You people are a riot. You complain about me because I don’t “toe the party line” such as on immigration, same sex marriage and abortion. You then devote (what is this, your 3rd or 4th post on the subject) your time to calling me a party loyalist. Let me take a stab at your game, “Hypocrisy, thy name is Bishop!”

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 11:17 AM

Yet you’re the one saying that the Party needs to crush dissent from whatever official line the Party is demanding while the rest of us are saying that differing opinions should be respected.

What’s the purpose of having representatives in Congress if their only role is to do as they’re told by whomever it is in the Party that was chosen to make the decisions.

Here’s an experiment for you: The GOP wins the senate and by a some miracle Ted Cruz is installed as senate majority leader, he then says the GOP needs to act as one by deporting all illegal aliens. You would be cool with that right, what I mean is that anyone who might say “Wait a minute!” should sit the F down, yes?

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 11:22 AM

Midas on March 11, 2014 at 10:44 AM

Overby is likely a legit (L) candidate, but he was helped greatly in the early stages by Dem operatives to get early traction. I think much of his support now is a “none of the above” vote because this has been a nasty and negative campaign, particularly by Sink.

Rand Paul made a robo-call over the weekend in support of Jolly, so hopefully that will help swing the liberatrian-leaning Overby voters towards the GOP. We’ll have to see.

HornHiAceDeuce on March 11, 2014 at 11:27 AM

Should be an easy win for gop candidate especially with democrat crowing about obamacare. However, it looks like the libertarian candidate may just step in and gift this race to the left. Its madness that this guy is even staying in the race with no chance of winning.

Ellis on March 11, 2014 at 11:29 AM

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 11:22 AM

Ah yes, let us remove all sense of proportion from the equation so as not to sound so silly.

Yet you’re the one saying that the Party needs to crush dissent from whatever official line the Party is demanding while the rest of us are saying that differing opinions should be respected.

Let’s get real. We’re not talking about an argument over whether to have tea or coffee at our caucus meeting. We are talking about actively working to prevent GOP candidates from winning elections. We are talking about radical maneuvers that undermine the party’s strategy and discredit them all as a buffoons by association, such as by shutting down the government in a juvenile, futile publicity stunt. Enjoy your tea.

And the person justifiably advocating the crushing of the TP is the very Senator who is being undermined by the “base” of that party.

Here’s an experiment for you: The GOP wins the senate and by a some miracle Ted Cruz is installed as senate majority leader, he then says the GOP needs to act as one by deporting all illegal aliens. You would be cool with that right, what I mean is that anyone who might say “Wait a minute!” should sit the F down, yes?

Oy vey. You have not understood a single word I said. My position on immigration as on other issues is based on what I perceive as the best interests of the country. So, no, I would not support action by Ted Cruz, Jesus or anyone else you care to name to do such a thing.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 11:31 AM

We are talking about actively working to prevent GOP candidates from winning elections.

Up until this election, we have stood behind the eventual Republican nominee. Unlike the establishment Rs, who have thrown their weight behind the write in candidate (NRSC and Murcowskie), sat it out, or actually helped the Dems.

cptacek on March 11, 2014 at 11:36 AM

cptacek on March 11, 2014 at 11:36 AM

Fine, so now you’re just airing grievances to explain the “why.” From the standpoint of the party, a counterproductive and malign group on the right is trying to damage their chances. They should try to quash it.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 11:44 AM

We are talking about radical maneuvers that undermine the party’s strategy and discredit them all as a buffoons by association, such as by shutting down the government in a juvenile, futile publicity stunt. Enjoy your tea.

What strategy is that; failing to hold a lawbreaking executive to account, failing to withhold funding from rogue federal departments, failing to continue investigations of criminality because it’s an election year, failing to do whatever is possible and legal to stop a looming national fiscal disaster?

Yah, imagine those TP jerks not lining up for all this goodness.

Oy vey. You have not understood a single word I said. My position on immigration as on other issues is based on what I perceive as the best interests of the country. So, no, I would not support action by Ted Cruz, Jesus or anyone else you care to name to do such a thing.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 11:31 AM

Yet here you are saying the Party should crush dissent. I asked you before and you didn’t answer: Who decides what the Party line will be?

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 11:48 AM

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 11:48 AM

And I told you that in the most recent and unambiguous case, it is Mitch McConnell, since he is the one being attacked by them.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 11:50 AM

Fine, so now you’re just airing grievances to explain the “why.” From the standpoint of the party, a counterproductive and malign group on the right is trying to damage their chances. They should try to quash it.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 11:44 AM

Good luck winning elections without us.

cptacek on March 11, 2014 at 11:50 AM

And I told you that in the most recent and unambiguous case, it is Mitch McConnell, since he is the one being attacked by them.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 11:50 AM

When did ol’ Mitch get elected as King of the GOP? Do us average people out here have to right to challenge what we perceive as ineffectualness or not?

I sincerely don’t understand why you fear vibrant, vociferous debate and opinion when our entire nation is built on those ideas.

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 12:00 PM

Bishop on March 11, 2014 at 12:00 PM

Obviously you have no point to make. You shrieked “hypocrite” and were shown to be foolish. Since then, you’ve devoted one post after another posing inane questions. I have better uses for my time.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 12:01 PM

And I told you that in the most recent and unambiguous case, it is Mitch McConnell, since he is the one being attacked by them.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 11:50 AM

I bet you’re anti-Israel, too. Same line of thinking; Palestinians commit acts of terror against Israel – > Israel reacts – > nitwits declare that Israel is the aggressor and Palestinians are under attack.

GOP abandon their conservative roots and behave like big-government liberals – > conservatives protest – > nitwits declare that conservatives are the aggressor and the GOP is under attack.

No, I’m not saying the GOP establishment are terrorists. I am saying that nitwitted a$$hats apparently have difficulty understanding cause and effect – action and reaction.

Quit being a nitwitted a$$hat.

Midas on March 11, 2014 at 12:04 PM

cptacek on March 11, 2014 at 11:36 AM

Fine, so now you’re just airing grievances to explain the “why.” From the standpoint of the party, a counterproductive and malign group on the right is trying to damage their chances. They should try to quash it.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 11:44 AM

Are you really so obtuse that you can’t understand plain English?

We want to defeat these Anti-American Establishment Republicans, and REPLACE them with Pro Americans that will stand and VOTE on behalf of our Country.

You act like we are going to the polls and vote against one of these and not vote FOR anyone.

Good grief!!

I suppose if a thief is bashing in your front door, you’d help them open it.

bluefox on March 11, 2014 at 12:04 PM

I bet you’re anti-Israel, too.

Midas on March 11, 2014 at 12:04 PM

You lose.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 12:07 PM

You lose.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 12:07 PM

Aw, you just declared yourself the winner. What a special, precious little flower you are. So cute.

Midas on March 11, 2014 at 12:14 PM

You act like we are going to the polls and vote against one of these and not vote FOR anyone.

bluefox on March 11, 2014 at 12:04 PM

When you work against the only candidate on the right with a chance to win you are not voting FOR anything.

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 12:15 PM

Midas on March 11, 2014 at 12:14 PM

I only declared that you lost your bet. Given that it was the opening premise of your post the rest was not worth reading. I’ve given you some of my time today. Too much, in fact. Consider yourself honored :-)

MJBrutus on March 11, 2014 at 12:18 PM

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