ESPN host on Arizona’s religious freedom bill: What’s next, gays wearing yellow stars?

posted at 2:41 pm on February 27, 2014 by Allahpundit

Via NRO, a video exclamation point on the self-congratulatory hysteria that characterized the latest panic. Ace once described behavior like this as “moral peacocking”; by going Godwin so quickly, Tony K wants to be sure you know that he’s got bigger, brighter feathers than you. I don’t watch “Pardon the Interruption” so I can only imagine the heights of indignation that he reaches when the subject of “Redskins” comes up — although, in that case, at least he was ahead of the curve. For others, the transition from not regarding a particular practice as unjust to acknowledging that it’s unjust to ostentatiously quaking with rage at a mere accusation of related injustice seems to get shorter all the time.

David Harsanyi sums up where I am on all this:

Now, it’s not my business — or his — to parse the beliefs of people or bore into their souls, any more than it’s the business of believers to explain how my atheism works. (Though, I should mention, that most e-mails reacting to my non-belief from social conservatives over the years have only gently attempted to persuade me that God loves me, while most e-mails reacting to my defense of religious freedom have speculated on my furtive bigotry and intolerance.) What the media should have been parsing was the bill itself – a bill that I suspect Fournier and others in the negligent media didn’t take the time to read…

I’ve been writing pro-gay marriage posts since I became a columnist at the Denver Post a decade ago. And though I don’t believe any of those columns or interviews with many gay Coloradans made much of a difference in the world, I do realize I was exceedingly gullible in believing that any group would be content simply being “left alone.” It’s clear that coexisting doesn’t only mean having the freedom to take part in the civil institution of marriage, but it also means compelling others into participation and acceptance.

Ilya Shapiro, another libertarian who supports legal gay marriage, did in fact read the bill. It’s essentially the same bill as the one that the federal government, under Bill Clinton, adopted 20 years ago, except this one would apply to private lawsuits too:

SB 1062 does nothing more than align state law with the federal Religious Freedom Restoration Act (which passed the House unanimously, the Senate 97-3, and was signed by President Clinton in 1993). That is, no government action can “substantially burden” religious exercise unless the government uses “the least restrictive means” to further a “compelling interest.” This doesn’t mean that people can “do whatever they want” – laws against murder would still trump religious human sacrifice – but it would prevent the government from forcing people to violate their religion if that can at all be avoided. Moreover, there’s no mention of sexual orientation (or any other class or category)…

This isn’t the Jim Crow South; there are plenty of wedding photographers – over 100 in Albuquerque – and bakeries who would be willing to do business regardless of sexual orientation, and no state is enforcing segregation laws. I bet plenty of Arizona businesses would and do see more customers if they advertised that they welcomed the LGBT community.

I bet so too. Nearly every harangue about Arizona in this debate, Kornheiser’s included, claims the state is notoriously stubborn in resisting social change, but that’s contradicted by the polling. According to the Arizona Republic last year, a clear majority of 55 percent support legalizing gay marriage. Dozens of states, not just Arizona, include no provision for gays in their public accommodation laws. And yet here’s Kornheiser stammering about the prospect of Michael Sam not being able to buy a ticket to the Super Bowl in a case where the NFL intervened heavily to kill Arizona’s bill. That’s the point — market forces are already on the side of gay rights, so the risk of gays not getting served absent a new law is already minimal. Frankly, if, like me, Harsanyi, and Shapiro, you support gay marriage and want to make it easier for opponents to accept it, the worst thing you can do is pick a needless fight over religious liberty at an instant when the momentum’s entirely on your side. Let the believers refuse service if they want; some of them will serve you anyway in the interest of their bottom line and others who refuse service now will come around in time. The less people have to fear from gay marriage becoming legal, the easier it’ll be to make it happen — if, that is, that’s the goal. If this is really about some sort of cultural revenge on people who are anti-gay, then I’ve been as gullible as Harsanyi.

By the way, before you watch the clip, read this post by Jon Swerens on the media’s “ooooopsi” approach to moral panics and try to identify which phase Kornheiser’s at. He’s the fifth “O,” right?


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I hate this subject.

jake-the-goose on February 27, 2014 at 3:21 PM

No, you don’t :)

Schadenfreude on February 27, 2014 at 3:23 PM

In reality, Gays were forced to wear pink triangles.

ronsfi on February 27, 2014 at 3:18 PM

In reality The Gestapo was full of Gays…They ran brothels in the camps.

workingclass artist on February 27, 2014 at 3:24 PM

No, you don’t :)

Schadenfreude on February 27, 2014 at 3:23 PM

OMG – first belly laugh of the day – thank you for that.

jake-the-goose on February 27, 2014 at 3:25 PM

Allapundit – the issue is larger than an individual baker not wanting to appear to be condoning gay marriage or some gay couple being discriminated against because they can’t get a wedding cake at bakery X. At the end of the day, the gay rights movement cannot tolerate anything that censures homosexuality or casts it in any kind of negative, unhealthy, or sinful light. This is not about peaceful coexistence. There will be no end for these homosexual activists until “every knee shall bow and every tongue confess” that homosexuality is a non-sinful, normal, natural state, equal in all respects with heterosexuality, and that gay and straight marriage are coequal. There is a case working it’s way through the court system in the UK right now where a gay couple is suing the Church of England for their “right” to be married in the church in front of their children. That is headed here to the US as sure as you’re a candy-ass RINO. This will require government and/or judicial intervention to realize and religious liberty will have to be sacrificed to obtain it.

Drfeelmobetta on February 27, 2014 at 3:25 PM

Ok – for your humor I also offer an apology. Jeepers – wish we could another Ted Cruz thread!

D’oh

jake-the-goose on February 27, 2014 at 3:22 PM

Never a need to apologize. My nom is tough.

Indeed, on the Cruz thread.

Schadenfreude on February 27, 2014 at 3:25 PM

Schadenfreude on February 27, 2014 at 3:25 PM

If I may divert – did you see Cruz’s reading of the Alamo letter the other day – on the senate floor?

Brilliant metaphor by him.

jake-the-goose on February 27, 2014 at 3:26 PM

jake-the-goose on February 27, 2014 at 3:26 PM

I didn’t, but it wasn’t his first time. I think he did that when he first filibustered…

Schadenfreude on February 27, 2014 at 3:28 PM

Morality by the NFL and ESPN? What’s the World Wrestling Federation’s take on transubstantiation I wonder?

claudius on February 27, 2014 at 3:28 PM

Whatever. Still churches on every street corner. Still God in the Pledge of Allegiance. Hysteria much?

lostmotherland on February 27, 2014 at 2:44 PM

Proof a motherland lost its idiot.

RickB on February 27, 2014 at 3:29 PM

ESPN host on Arizona’s religious freedom bill: What’s next, gays wearing yellow stars?

No Tony Kornheiser, it was your fellow ideologues in the National Socialist Workers Party of Germany that required the yellow stars for Jews.

RJL on February 27, 2014 at 3:30 PM

the worst thing you can do is pick a needless fight over religious liberty

AP, seriously? This has nothing to do with religious liberty! If I walk into a pizza shop with my (nonexistent) boyfriend to, ya know, buy pizza like anyone else, who the hell is the employee behind the counter to question my sexuality and refuse service if it “offends” their religion? What if the other guy is a friend who is straight? Can the employee refuse him service too for hanging out with a gayyyyyy person. Is merely existing as a gay person a sinful “homosexual act” and therefore eternally verboten from doing anything? I seriously expected a lot more out of you, AP.

This isn’t the Jim Crow South; there are plenty of wedding photographers – over 100 in Albuquerque – and bakeries who would be willing to do business regardless of sexual orientation, and no state is enforcing segregation laws. I bet plenty of Arizona businesses would and do see more customers if they advertised that they welcomed the LGBT community.

Ahhh, good ‘ole separate but equal.

This is last, stammering breath of bigots trying to ameliorate a toxic society, because they know best.

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 3:30 PM

People still actually watch Tony Kornholer? Why?

bbinfl on February 27, 2014 at 3:30 PM

I only watch live sporting events on ESPN and avoid SC and the talking heads as much as possible…helps with the blood pressure…unless my Cubbies are playing…

fortcoins on February 27, 2014 at 3:30 PM

New movie coming out, Dawn of Planet of the Apes, or such.

Schadenfreude on February 27, 2014 at 3:31 PM

People still actually watch Tony Kornholer? Why?

bbinfl on February 27, 2014 at 3:30 PM

It’s a crappy time slot.

jake-the-goose on February 27, 2014 at 3:31 PM

Maybes,…”RainBow Stars “!!

(And, yes, I’m kidding)

canopfor on February 27, 2014 at 3:31 PM

What’s next, ESPN actually only covering sports and not trying to push an agenda? #HOMODISNEY

reddevil on February 27, 2014 at 3:32 PM

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 3:30 PM

You’ll have to ask the NFL or Apple about these matters…

claudius on February 27, 2014 at 3:32 PM

No, what is next is the gaYs will come after the churches to make them marry them. It will happen..

Bullhead on February 27, 2014 at 3:34 PM

Once again the right gets snookered by the left. Got into a minor discussion on twitter with someone who writes for Townhall about this – that Brewer did the right a favor because this was unwinnable and we weren’t ready.

But when will we ever be ready and are we going to continue to cede ground until we magically become ready? We’ve been at this with the left for 50 years now and they continue to school us on a regular basis yet our “betters” and “elites” and “leaders” never figure it out.

I was told we need to win hearts and minds, not laws. I wonder why we can’t multitask or at least be prepared to put up an informed argument.

Oh well.

kim roy on February 27, 2014 at 3:35 PM

Btw,…….this was nothing more than an Infomercial that the
Democrats can play back, at there DNC Convention in 2016, for a
bizzare morale booster sumpins!!!

canopfor on February 27, 2014 at 3:35 PM

Of course not! The goal is not to discuss, but to end discussion.

DRPrice on February 27, 2014 at 3:21 PM

Yes, and it is a tactic that has worked very well for the left, and not just with AZ laws. They do the same thing with voter ID laws. Even the worst Third World $hitholes try to implement basic safeguards to protect the integrity of their voting process. But any state in the U.S. that tries to do that is Raaaaacist! or discriminating against poor people! No, we in the U.S. shouldn’t be allowed to require voters to produce an actual ID so we know who they are, and if they are actually entitled to vote. Even the damn U.N. was shocked at the insecurity of our voting process. But the left fights tooth and nail against every common-sense measure to try and provide more security. And they always use raaaaaacism! as their rallying cry, and the LIVs fall for it every time.

AZCoyote on February 27, 2014 at 3:36 PM

Where are the ministers and priests?

claudius on February 27, 2014 at 3:37 PM

The game plan, at least in part is:

Fact: Most child molesters are men.
Fact: Most child molesters, by a large margin, prefer young boys to young girls.
Fact: Unlike most other serious crimes, child molesters are just as frequent in the upper echelons of society as they are in the lower ones hence we have (if history books are accurate) such famous pedophiles as Alexander the Great, Ghenghis Kahn along side of popes, presidents, famous athletes and sports writers, film stars, producers, rabbis, cardinals, priests ministers, school principals, university professors ‘ad infintum’. The bottom line is that some “revered” figure is just as likely to molest children as the neighborhood bum.

Combine the above facts with the latest propaganda spin—comparing any restraint whatsoever on homosexuality as persecutory behavior comparable to the Holocaust or black segregation is not only delusional but insulting–but it does give hint to a possible motive.

1 It becomes politically incorrect to even file the mildest demurrer toward what is obviously abnormal behavior.Yellow stars indeed! What a ludicrous comparison. How insulting to the Jews!!
2 Once homosexuality becomes socially acceptable or ‘de rigueur’ in some circles , step 2 is, by gradual increments ,to lower the age of consent. This will give legal backing to social acceptance. This will also keep the rich and famous out of the prisons with the “riff raff”.

MaiDee on February 27, 2014 at 3:39 PM

Let the believers refuse service if they want; some of them will serve you anyway in the interest of their bottom line and others who refuse service now will come around in time. The less people have to fear from gay marriage becoming legal, the easier it’ll be to make it happen —

I’m curious, Allah, as to why you think most of the opposition within the faith community is based principally on fear? For us, marriage is a sacrament, defined by God and not alterable by humans. Even most of the high profile cases where Christians have been ordered to provide services to same-sex weddings have involved vendors who have had no problems serving homosexuals in any other setting but who feel a same-sex wedding violates a central religious principle. So, they are not afraid and will not come around.

If this is really about some sort of cultural revenge on people who are anti-gay, then I’ve been as gullible as Harsanyi.

It may not be about revenge for most homosexuals who want to get married, but it is for those who have gone looking for vendors that have a religious objection in order to institute a lawsuit. They want to force anyone who does not accept same-sex relations as the exact equal of heterosexual through “re-education” by any means necessary.

SCSoxFan on February 27, 2014 at 3:39 PM

Well,…ain’t this interesting,…DEMOCRAT HippyCrits:

Florida 13th Congressional District special election, March 11, 2014
8m
Republican congressional candidate David Jolly says Democrat Alex Sink’s recent comments on immigrants were ‘disgusting’ and should prevent her from serving in Congress – @TB_Times
read more on tampabay.com
=========================

David Jolly calls Alex Sink’s immigration comments ‘disgusting’
Thursday, February 27, 2014 3:12pm
***********************************

LARGO — Republican congressional candidate David Jolly said Democrat Alex Sink’s recent comments on immigrants were “disgusting” and should prevent her from serving in Congress.

“I think Alex Sink’s comments reflect a bigotry that should disqualify her from representing the people of this community and should disqualify her from serving in the United States Congress,” Jolly said at a news conference Thursday. “She offended immigrants throughout this community, she offended non-immigrant workers. She offended business owners. She offended every American that believes in the equality of people regardless of race, creed or color. I think it was a disgusting comment.”

During a candidate debate on Tuesday,

Sink was asked a question about immigration reform and said she supports it. She said:

” Immigration reform is important in our country. It’s one of the main agenda items of the beaches chamber of commerce, for obvious reasons. Because we have a lot of employers over on the beaches that rely upon workers and especially in this high-growth environment, where are you going to get people to work to clean out hotel rooms or do our landscaping? And we don’t need to put those employers in the position of hiring undocumented and illegal workers.”
(More….)
==============

http://www.tampabay.com/news/politics/elections/david-jolly-calls-alex-sinks-immigration-comments-disgusting/2167689?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter

canopfor on February 27, 2014 at 3:41 PM

every harangue about Arizona in this debate, Kornheiser’s included, claims the state is notoriously stubborn in resisting social change, but that’s contradicted by the polling.

Yesterday, Chuck Todd spent a good 15 minutes on this topic on Kornheiser’s radio show (I guess there was nothing really exciting about the Ukraine or minimum wage by decree.) Today, Kornheiser spent the first 20 minutes of the show on this topic.

Kornheiser is living the Drive-By-Liberal-Media Dream inside his little Chevy Chase world. He’s a media and political suck-up. His regulars are any media types who happen to agree with him, including Howard Fineman and Chuck Todd, and his former office-mates from the Washington Post. Oh, and once in while, he actually discusses sports when he’s not whining about suburban D.C. traffic or demanding free stuff.

Vera71 on February 27, 2014 at 3:41 PM

Youknownothing,

Yes, you’re right, in a sense. It’s not about religious liberty. It’s just about liberty. I can’t stand those idiots in Kansas who picket the funerals of homosexuals. You know the ones I’m talking about. And I certainly believe that homosexual is perverse. So if either those idiots or the fudge pirate community want me to bake the cake or photograph one of their little get-togethers, I’d say “no.” In fact, “hell no.” Now if I’m running a retail shop or a restaurant, and one or more wanted to shop or dine there, fine, no problem. But if they want, DEMAND, that I participate in their meetings in any way, no. That’s violating MY civil rights.

The distinction is this: a simple business transaction is different than participation or contribution to an event. If a woman whose husband is in jail comes into my general store and buys cake mix and a file, none of my business. If she wants me to bake a cake and put a file in it–best to say “no.” If a man comes in and buys a whip,a copious amount of leather, and a sewing kit, still not my business. If I’m asked to photograph his “encounter” with his “friends” I’d say “no.” And if someone buys a bottle of ammonia, a bucket, and a mop-ok. If they buy SIX large bottles of ammonia—ummmm, time to call the cops. And seriously, the cops want to know about things like that. Also, if a really high-strung guy comes into your gun shop, talking about black helicopters and the mark of the beast and the evils of fluoridation, maybe you shouldn’t sell him that high-powered rifle he wants. Even if he passes the background check. Seriously.

RockinRickOwen on February 27, 2014 at 3:47 PM

I don’t want homosexuals to be identified apart from the rest of us. I want them to ‘blend-in’ and be “invisible”. That’s part (but not all) of the reason I oppose SSM.
SSM relationships don’t “blend-in” to society, they stick OUT.

listens2glenn on February 27, 2014 at 3:47 PM

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 3:30 PM

Look at this comment to see what I meant when I wrote above about revenge. This is not about bakers, florists, and photographers banning homosexuals from their businesses. It is about their right not to participate in a ceremony, and ONLY a ceremony, that they sincerely believe violates a central religious belief.

SCSoxFan on February 27, 2014 at 3:49 PM

Becasue when I want to look for an informed opinion on the politics of sexual orientation, I look to a bald orange man on ESPN.

I thought I was supposed to listen to Bob Costas…

Galtian on February 27, 2014 at 3:49 PM

*Because

Galtian on February 27, 2014 at 3:50 PM

No, what is next is the gaYs will come after the churches to make them marry them. It will happen..

Bullhead on February 27, 2014 at 3:34 PM

And Parochial Schools.

State approved curriculum.

workingclass artist on February 27, 2014 at 3:51 PM

This country is going insane.

rrpjr on February 27, 2014 at 3:54 PM

BTW, it’s Conservatives that will be wearing the tattooed numbers and yellow stars…

d1carter on February 27, 2014 at 3:54 PM

Wait, this guy’s name is Kornheiser?

AllahsNippleHair on February 27, 2014 at 3:55 PM

And the NFL turns to flag football…

d1carter on February 27, 2014 at 3:58 PM

American sports leagues are becoming INFESTED with progressive talking points and ideology. As they are, I’m leaving them behind, including the NFL.

xNavigator on February 27, 2014 at 4:00 PM

Ahhh, good ‘ole separate but equal.

This is last, stammering breath of bigots trying to ameliorate a toxic society, because they know best.

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 3:30 PM

They do.

They know the First Amendment and their rights, and you don’t.

You’re the toxic bigot, because you and your fellow hatemongers are just exploiting gay people to push your antireligious bigotry.

northdallasthirty on February 27, 2014 at 4:00 PM

BTW, it’s Conservatives that will be wearing the tattooed numbers and yellow stars…

d1carter on February 27, 2014 at 3:54 PM

Yep. Even atheist conservatives will be lumped in with the religious….and so will most of the rhinos and the libertarians (They’re pot will be confiscated).

The New Hotness – Puscht

workingclass artist on February 27, 2014 at 4:02 PM

If this is really about some sort of cultural revenge on people who are anti-gay, then I’ve been as gullible as Harsanyi.

It is and you were, Allahpundit.

And you were warned repeatedly that these people were bigots. The fact of how gay conservatives are demonized by the left should have tipped you off immediately that they don’t care about “gay rights” as much as they care about using it as a cudgel for their antireligious bigotry.

You were used. And it won’t stop until you acknowledge that and admit that you enabled antireligious bigotry.

northdallasthirty on February 27, 2014 at 4:02 PM

American sports leagues are becoming INFESTED with progressive talking points and ideology. As they are, I’m leaving them behind, including the NFL.

xNavigator on February 27, 2014 at 4:00 PM

Can’t allow a refuge from the noise now can we?

workingclass artist on February 27, 2014 at 4:04 PM

These people are idiots and truly don’t understand the difference between government force, free market, and private individuals. Why because they think the state should run the free market and private individuals. The state is their God.

We aren’t talking about institutionalized or governmental discrimination. We are talking about private individuals having the right to decide who they do business and associate with. It is called fvcking freedom, something else these idiots don’t understand.

melle1228 on February 27, 2014 at 4:04 PM

It is and you were, Allahpundit.

And you were warned repeatedly that these people were bigots. The fact of how gay conservatives are demonized by the left should have tipped you off immediately that they don’t care about “gay rights” as much as they care about using it as a cudgel for their antireligious bigotry.

You were used. And it won’t stop until you acknowledge that and admit that you enabled antireligious bigotry.

northdallasthirty on February 27, 2014 at 4:02 PM

I listened recently to a ricochet podcast where one of the hosts told the story of two parties on the same weekend.
On Friday night a man had a party with his conservative friends. He told them he was gay. They told him they already knew. And the party went on.
On Saturday night the man went to a party with is liberal friends. He told them he was conservative and they ostracized him.

gwelf on February 27, 2014 at 4:05 PM

Ahhh, good ‘ole separate but equal.

This is last, stammering breath of bigots trying to ameliorate a toxic society, because they know best.

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 3:30 PM

Bigots? You mean people who hold a deeply held belief that they are not allowed to violate under threat to their immortal soul?

You, ma’am, are the bigot. You are an intolerant insect who hates people that refuse to bow down to your agenda.

“Separate but equal” is exactly what you’re demanding for Christians. This is not surprising, of course, as it was leftists who demanded the exact same treatment of black people (and still are….think about it if you’re capable).

You should be banned for the bigotry you just spewed. You suck.

runawayyyy on February 27, 2014 at 4:05 PM

These people are idiots and truly don’t understand the difference between government force, free market, and private individuals. Why because they think the state should run the free market and private individuals. The state is their God.

We aren’t talking about institutionalized or governmental discrimination. We are talking about private individuals having the right to decide who they do business and associate with. It is called fvcking freedom, something else these idiots don’t understand.

melle1228 on February 27, 2014 at 4:04 PM

They don’t care. This is just yet another opportunity to lie about and demonize people they don’t want to understand but would rather didn’t exist and wish to push completely out of the public square.

gwelf on February 27, 2014 at 4:06 PM

These people are idiots and truly don’t understand the difference between government force, free market, and private individuals. Why because they think the state should run the free market and private individuals. The state is their God.

We aren’t talking about institutionalized or governmental discrimination. We are talking about private individuals having the right to decide who they do business and associate with. It is called fvcking freedom, something else these idiots don’t understand.

melle1228 on February 27, 2014 at 4:04 PM

It’s that damned progressive yearning for all things European…while the rest of us are flyover rubes and our Constitution is outdated and written by dead white guys.

Can’t stand it!

It’s infiltrated our culture at every level.

Our president King A-hole the Magnificent just announced he’s giving $200 Million to young men of color…no women or caucasians need apply.

Centralized Power.

*blech*

workingclass artist on February 27, 2014 at 4:11 PM

I do realize I was exceedingly gullible in believing that any group would be content simply being “left alone.”

Many of you realized you were gullible a lot earlier than you did.

It’s NEVER just about being left alone with the victim-agenda groups.

Missy on February 27, 2014 at 4:11 PM

If this is really about some sort of cultural revenge on people who are anti-gay, then I’ve been as gullible as Harsanyi.

Another thing Allahpundit,

Look at the rhetoric and structure of the pro SSM movements arguments. They try to draw close parallels with themselves and the black struggle for civil rights. They see them as the same thing.
So, this means that it will never end. Community organizers and college professors etc still agitate about the “New Black Crow”, structural racism, critical race theory and all the rest of it.
The gay struggle for “rights” will be exactly the same.

Also, for all those people who weren’t alive for the civil rights movement now get to be a part of something they see as the same thing. They will not easily give up that amount of self righteousness.

gwelf on February 27, 2014 at 4:13 PM

*New Jim Crow

gwelf on February 27, 2014 at 4:14 PM

I do realize I was exceedingly gullible in believing that any group would be content simply being “left alone.”

Many of you realized you were gullible a lot earlier than you did.

It’s NEVER just about being left alone with the victim-agenda groups.

Missy on February 27, 2014 at 4:11 PM

Correct.

Wait till they realize that preference groups change too…Then they will understand Lenin’s meaning of useful idiots.

workingclass artist on February 27, 2014 at 4:16 PM

It’s NEVER just about being left alone with the victim-agenda groups.

Missy on February 27, 2014 at 4:11 PM

Exactly

gwelf on February 27, 2014 at 4:22 PM

It’s NEVER just about being left alone with the victim-agenda groups.

Missy on February 27, 2014 at 4:11 PM

Um, aren’t you claiming to be a victim…

I’ve read numerous posts on this thread about attacks on Christianity.

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 4:26 PM

No, what is next is the gaYs will come after the churches to make them marry them. It will happen..

Bullhead on February 27, 2014 at 3:34 PM

Much more. The target is The Bible itself, and anyone that teaches from it. They want it banned as hate speech. They want anyone that teaches anything less than honest joyful approval of homosexuality to be jailed for hate speech.

slickwillie2001 on February 27, 2014 at 4:28 PM

Um, aren’t you claiming to be a victim…

I’ve read numerous posts on this thread about attacks on Christianity.

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 4:26 PM

Posts by me? Do tell.

Missy on February 27, 2014 at 4:28 PM

They know the First Amendment and their rights, and you don’t.northdallasthirty on February 27, 2014 at 4:00 PM

Your 1st ends where my 14th begins.

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 4:30 PM

Also, for all those people who weren’t alive for the civil rights movement now get to be a part of something they see as the same thing. They will not easily give up that amount of self righteousness.

gwelf on February 27, 2014 at 4:13 PM

Great point. I remember during the Gulf War I was in college and a lot of the students went down to City Hall to protest. They were so happy when they got arrested. It was their Vietnam, man.

Missy on February 27, 2014 at 4:31 PM

Today, Kornheiser spent the first 20 minutes of the show on this topic. Vera71 on February 27, 2014 at 3:41 PM

Because, sports.

Akzed on February 27, 2014 at 4:32 PM

Stars are unnecessary. Everyone on planet earth has some degree of gaydar.

Lanceman on February 27, 2014 at 2:56 PM

A star on Jason Collins would have saved his poor ex-girlfriend eight years of her life.

monalisa on February 27, 2014 at 4:32 PM

Posts by me? Do tell.

Missy on February 27, 2014 at 4:28 PM

I just thought your post was funny. Didn’t meant to implicate you

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 4:33 PM

Other states have similar legislation to SB 1062, correct?

mjbrooks3 on February 27, 2014 at 4:34 PM

Your 1st ends where my 14th begins.

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 4:30 PM

Wrong.

MY Fourteenth begins at the same time as does your Fourteenth.

You are a bigot who seeks to deny people equal protection of the law because of their religious beliefs. You in fact state that religious beliefs DISQUALIFY people from equal protection of the law.

You just outed yourself, bigot. You just made clear that you do not think I have rights under the Fourteenth Amendment and that you can use the law to punish me.

northdallasthirty on February 27, 2014 at 4:36 PM

My name is gooey, I am a manaboogie. We believe that we should be able to gooberbog whenever we want but these damn christian people don’t understand us and they say gooberboging is wrong according to their beliefs. I thought this Country was founded on religious freedom, I should be able to gooberbog and they should not have to.

Sven on February 27, 2014 at 4:36 PM

I’ve read numerous posts on this thread about attacks on Christianity.

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 4:26 PM

Actually this is an attack on anyone who practices a traditional religion.

Including Muslims and Hindus. (India’s high court recently re-criminalized homosexuality)

How come Gays aren’t suing muslim bakeries or hindu photographers…or disrupting muslim friday prayers at the local mosque?

Yeah…I thought so.

workingclass artist on February 27, 2014 at 4:37 PM

Um, aren’t you claiming to be a victim…

I’ve read numerous posts on this thread about attacks on Christianity.

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 4:26 PM

Religious beliefs are protected from government-sanctioned discrimination by the First Amendment and Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

So unless you want to say pointing out illegal discrimination is victimhood, then you pretty much just shot yourself in the foot, bigot boy.

northdallasthirty on February 27, 2014 at 4:38 PM

Utopians hate reality, they hate what is, because it isn’t Utopia, it’s not perfect.

So the imperfect that is must be torn down to make way for the perfect that is waiting in the wings. If only the imperfect would get out of the way, we’d have paradise.

And make no mistake, this is not isolated from the gun grab. The “homophobes” are the ones with the guns and vice versa, in the commie narrative. So they’re twice evil and deserve whatever they get

Akzed on February 27, 2014 at 4:38 PM

Your 1st ends where my 14th begins.

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 4:30 PM

Wrong.

MY Fourteenth begins at the same time as does your Fourteenth.

You are a bigot who seeks to deny people equal protection of the law because of their religious beliefs. You in fact state that religious beliefs DISQUALIFY people from equal protection of the law.

You just outed yourself, bigot. You just made clear that you do not think I have rights under the Fourteenth Amendment and that you can use the law to punish me.

northdallasthirty on February 27, 2014 at 4:36 PM

Bravo ND30

workingclass artist on February 27, 2014 at 4:39 PM

The real problem for Kornheiser and ESPN is that Michael Sam underwhelmed at Combine.

monalisa on February 27, 2014 at 4:41 PM

Where are the ministers and priests?

claudius on February 27, 2014 at 3:37 PM

The ministers and priests who actually believe the main tenents of Christian belief (I’m not talking literalist interpretations but the belief that Jesus Christ is God Incarnate…we are justified by faith in Jesus Christ alone, etc.) are becoming more and more scarce. Many have bought into the leftist view of the world. It is far worse than most people think because at the moment, they do not feel comfortable DIRECTLY saying these things in front of their congregations.

Micah68 on February 27, 2014 at 4:44 PM

Other states have similar legislation to SB 1062, correct?

mjbrooks3 on February 27, 2014 at 4:34 PM

mjbrooks3: Correct!
=====================

Other states copy Arizona SB 1062

By ANDREA DRUSCH and TAL KOPAN | 2/26/14 8:04 AM EST Updated: 2/27/14 6:26 AM EST
************

http://www.politico.com/story/2014/02/arizona-sb1062-missouri-kansas-georgia-103981.html

canopfor on February 27, 2014 at 4:44 PM

You just outed yourself, bigot. You just made clear that you do not think I have rights under the Fourteenth Amendment and that you can use the law to punish me.

northdallasthirty on February 27, 2014 at 4:36 PM

Yes, that’s exactly what I said.

Honestly, this argument is pointless. You’re losing. Actually, you’ve already lost. None of your arguments have any constitutionality, and it’s not my problem that you cannot see this.

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 4:45 PM

Welcome to the club, AP.
Lots of Christians wondering today exactly how naïve they’ve been. All that stuff about how pursuing gay rights would never threaten religious freedoms is definitely looking like a pack of lies after the last few days of absolutely rabid behavior coming out of the LGBT community.
Worse yet is that it seems next to possible to the anti-religion-for-whatever-reason crowd that religion does serve a positive purpose across society as a whole…especially when times are tough. So attacks on freedom of religion now, when things aren’t going well economically, government corruption is high, and trust in government is low, isn’t likely to be received very well.

lineholder on February 27, 2014 at 4:46 PM

Yes, that’s exactly what I said.

Yep, it is.

The funny part is that you bigots don’t realize how stupid you look screaming that constitutional rights don’t matter, then insisting that the Fourteenth Amendment to the Constitution gives you rights the rest of us don’t have.

Honestly, this argument is pointless. You’re losing. Actually, you’ve already lost. None of your arguments have any constitutionality, and it’s not my problem that you cannot see this.

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 4:45 PM

Uh huh.

Which is why you’re screaming and crying and demanding that the government force Christians to bake you cakes.

Funny how their rights to equal protection go out the window then. Only shows how you’re nothing more than a bigot and a hypocrite.

northdallasthirty on February 27, 2014 at 4:49 PM

Honestly, this argument is pointless. You’re losing. Actually, you’ve already lost. None of your arguments have any constitutionality, and it’s not my problem that you cannot see this.

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 4:45 PM

LOL.

I’ve been writing pro-gay marriage posts since I became a columnist at the Denver Post a decade ago. And though I don’t believe any of those columns or interviews with many gay Coloradans made much of a difference in the world, I do realize I was exceedingly gullible in believing that any group would be content simply being “left alone.” It’s clear that coexisting doesn’t only mean having the freedom to take part in the civil institution of marriage, but it also means compelling others into participation and acceptance.

And:

The less people have to fear from gay marriage becoming legal, the easier it’ll be to make it happen — if, that is, that’s the goal. If this is really about some sort of cultural revenge on people who are anti-gay, then I’ve been as gullible as Harsanyi.

Throw in the lawsuits already being filed to force churches to perform gay-sex marriage, and once again we see the recurring cycle of history: totalitarians are toppled because they don’t know when to quit.

You’re turning off your supporters and making people question your motives and see you as bigots, troll. How is that winning?

Oh, that’s right. Stupid troll is just going to start screaming “homophobe” — thus boomeranging and humiliating his greatest supporters.

LOL.

northdallasthirty on February 27, 2014 at 4:52 PM

Which is why you’re I’m screaming and crying and demanding that the government force allow Christians people to bake you cakes discriminate.

Funny how their rights to equal protection go out the window then. Only shows how you’re nothing more than a bigot and a hypocrite.

northdallasthirty on February 27, 2014 at 4:49 PM

FIFY:)

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 4:56 PM

It’s NEVER just about being left alone with the victim-agenda groups.

Missy on February 27, 2014 at 4:11 PM

I’ll take it another step, it’s NEVER just about being left alone with the jacobin progressive-fascists. One either fully accepts their agenda, vision, and reality – or one is an enemy.

It’s not about co-existence. It’s all about forced membership into the collective ‘right-think’ either willingly or by any means needed.

It’s not about tolerance. It’s all about only one acceptable viewpoint and that is to the state and the agenda of the state.

Social justice is not about justice, it’s about compliance to the will of the state and it’s agenda.

Victims are to be exploited, and the more victims, the more to exploit and leverage. Victims are helped by the state in the ‘goodness’ of the state.

Fairness is how the state define fairness – not how individuals define the word.

It’s about embracing ‘all are equal, except that some are more equal than others’ when it comes to the discussion of one’s rights or fairness. Rights are what are defined by the state and done for the good of the state.

It’s about demonizing the values of the opposition – attempting to twist, ridicule, marginalize, and dismiss religion, individual freedoms, individual rights, the concept of inalienable rights, freedoms of speech, freedoms of association, and freedom of religion including the right to not have laws passed that prohibit the free exercise of one’s religion.

It’s repeated efforts and uses, not of just a moral equivalency fallacy, but embracing a moral superiority fallacy created by the minions of the state.

It’s about moving the goalposts, deception, deflection, canards, and other levels of intellectual dishonesty to promote the will of the state over that of the individual. Truth is only what the state and the acolytes of state say.

It’s all about embracing and advocating fascism – hence the ease at which they invoke Godwin’s Law as they attempt to demonize, diminish, and discredit opposing viewpoints with their own projection. It’s about embracing ‘the ends justifies the means’…

It’s the embodiment of what Orwell foresaw…

The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal. We are not like that. We know what no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it. Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now you begin to understand me.”

and indoctrination…

“Don’t you see that the whole aim of Newspeak is to narrow the range of thought? In the end we shall make thoughtcrime literally impossible, because there will be no words in which to express it.”

Athos on February 27, 2014 at 4:59 PM

Oh good grief! More of the oppressed American homosexual myth and how difficult it is for them here in Siberia.

Cleombrotus on February 27, 2014 at 5:00 PM

Your 1st ends where my 14th begins.

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 4:30 PM

The 14th amendment deals with equal protection and due process. It is a guideline for the STATE, and not a private individual. You have no due process or equal protection on my private property. The bakeries and photographers are being sanctioned by the STATE and as such are having their rights violated.

Again, can we get a better class of troll. Seriously, can we get some that fvcking have a basic understanding of the law and the Constitution?

melle1228 on February 27, 2014 at 5:02 PM

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 4:56 PM

You mean that from your perspective it is discrimination.

It isn’t. There is no deliberate intent to discriminate, only to protect the conscience of the individual and their religious beliefs.

It’s one of those situations where it could be said “You think that is discrimination? Then you don’t know what discrimination is”

lineholder on February 27, 2014 at 5:02 PM

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 4:56 PM

But am thankful for the last few days. It has definitely opened the eyes of a lot of Christians. They won’t be nearly as naïve from this point forward, and much more inclined to protect their own rights.

lineholder on February 27, 2014 at 5:04 PM

Your 1st ends where my 14th begins.

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 4:30 PM

If that were true, which it isn’t, the 14th would be unconstitutional by definition.

Missy on February 27, 2014 at 5:05 PM

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 4:56 PM

Do the math.

How long do you think you’ll stay on top in the Utopian Paradise you’re building?

as long as any other minority who is no longer useful….but don’t worry it won’t be personal just Fascist.

workingclass artist on February 27, 2014 at 5:06 PM

melle1228 on February 27, 2014 at 5:02 PM

You’re so much smarter than Sandra Day O’Connor.

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 5:07 PM

Oh good grief! More of the oppressed American homosexual myth and how difficult it is for them here in Siberia.

Cleombrotus on February 27, 2014 at 5:00 PM

Yeah…especially since they have no voice in the media…oh wait!

workingclass artist on February 27, 2014 at 5:08 PM

You’re so much smarter than Sandra Day O’Connor.

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 5:07 PM

The Constitution states only one command twice. The Fifth Amendment says to the federal government that no one shall be “deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law.” The Fourteenth Amendment, ratified in 1868, uses the same eleven words, called the Due Process Clause, to describe a legal obligation of all states.</strong> These words have as their central promise an assurance that all levels of American government must operate within the law (“legality”) and provide fair procedures. Most of this essay concerns that promise. We should briefly note, however, three other uses these words have had in American constitutional

http://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/due_process

melle1228 on February 27, 2014 at 5:08 PM

You mean that from your perspective it is discrimination.

It isn’t. There is no deliberate intent to discriminate, only to protect the conscience of the individual and their religious beliefs.

It’s one of those situations where it could be said “You think that is discrimination? Then you don’t know what discrimination is”

lineholder on February 27, 2014 at 5:02 PM

How do they know who it’s for?

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 5:08 PM

Anybody still believe that the gay marriage farce is about “marriage equality” and not simply but one more way to drive Christianity out of existence?

MMK on February 27, 2014 at 2:45 PM

Only five posts down and there it is. Someone who understands the big picture. Bravo MMK.

weathermen on February 27, 2014 at 5:10 PM

“If this is really about some sort of cultural revenge on people who are anti-gay, then I’ve been as gullible as Harsanyi.”

I’ll wait patiently until you really commit to this ‘ah-ha!’ moment…

MC88 on February 27, 2014 at 5:12 PM

How do they know who it’s for?

How do you know it is discrimination? Because it seems that way to you from your perspective?

And every Christian concerned about their conscience, their personal relationship with God, and their testimony to others could easily tell you what that is not the case.

Won’t matter to you one whit, will it? If religious freedoms have to be sacrificed to secure your rights, then so be it, correct? Regardless of the damage that it might to society as a whole.

Isn’t that how the LGBT community sees it now?

lineholder on February 27, 2014 at 5:13 PM

I stopped watching PTI a few years ago, when they stopped discussing sports and began ragging on social injustice. As a matter if fact, I rarely watch any ESPN shows anymore for the same reason. Watch the games, but not the talk. It does not add to the franchise to me. The NFL is headed the same way. These franchises are going to lose value with their social agitation.

Techster64 on February 27, 2014 at 5:15 PM

The less people have to fear from gay marriage becoming legal, the easier it’ll be to make it happen — if, that is, that’s the goal. If this is really about some sort of cultural revenge on people who are anti-gay, then I’ve been as gullible as Harsanyi.

The end goal is revenge. I’m surprised you haven’t realized this. Anger on the part of gays has roiled everywhere. Remember what happened in California with Proposition 8?

Even before things crystallized into their fight to redefine marriage, back in the 80′s there was a pastor in the San Francisco area whose church was firebombed. Other churches have been disrupted as well. Hatred and fury against those who say their lifestyle is immoral has abounded.

INC on February 27, 2014 at 5:16 PM

lineholder on February 27, 2014 at 5:13 PM

Yep. No guilt. No shame. No standard of morality.

See ya on the floor of the coliseum.

kingsjester on February 27, 2014 at 5:20 PM

lineholder on February 27, 2014 at 5:13 PM

I care about everybody’s rights. Just because it violates your personal religion doesn’t mean you can violate other peoples rights.

This is my perspective: You’re rights don’t trump mine. The Supreme Court has been clear on this: If a law targets your religion, then it’s unconstitutional; this bill targeted gay people, and it is also unconstitutional.

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 5:21 PM

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 5:21 PM

Did you read the bill?

INC on February 27, 2014 at 5:23 PM

The law that fined the photographers in New Mexico targetted their religion!

Sven on February 27, 2014 at 5:24 PM

I care about everybody’s rights. Just because it violates your personal religion doesn’t mean you can violate other peoples rights.

No, you don’t…

This is my perspective: You’re rights don’t trump mine. The Supreme Court has been clear on this: If a law targets your religion, then it’s unconstitutional; this bill targeted gay people, and it is also unconstitutional.

youknowit on February 27, 2014 at 5:21 PM

You don’t have a right to someone else’s labor or hard work. This bill SAID NOTHING ABOUT GAYS. It was an extension of the Religious Freedom Restoration Act of 1993. All it did was take the principles of the RFRA and apply it to Civil cases as well as state case.

OMG, Hot Air– stop letting in the low information trolls.

melle1228 on February 27, 2014 at 5:24 PM

melle1228 on February 27, 2014 at 5:24 PM

That’s why I asked him if he’d read the bill!

INC on February 27, 2014 at 5:25 PM

Even if it was as badly written as the left incorrectly freaked out about…how often would a restaurant or business walk up to someone and say “Get out gays!!”; how would they determine it? I eat one-on-one lunches/dinners with friends all the time, will restaurants assume all same sex tables are made up of gays?!? Or would it take one screaming “FABULOUS!!” for them to walk up and query about it…

The real reason the left freaked out about this is that they want the LEGAL right to FORCE every single American to be apart of, honor, and participate in their sexual lifestyle. And this law was attempting to make that harder.

nextgen_repub on February 27, 2014 at 5:27 PM

See ya on the floor of the coliseum

By all means, go for it. The veil has been ripped now and Christians are definitely seeing how badly they’ve been duped by the LGBT community. They aren’t in the least bit likely to be as complacent as they have been in the past.

this bill targeted gay people, and it is also unconstitutional.

The bill never mentioned gay people. If you believe that it did, you bought into the hype. RFRA still stands. All the last few days have accomplished is to render the veil of deceit that the LGBT community has been using to hide behind.

lineholder on February 27, 2014 at 5:28 PM

The florist in WA is a Christian targeted by men who had been customers for ten+ years. She only declined to do their ‘wedding’.

He said he decided to get married and before he got through I grabbed his hand and said, ‘I am sorry. I can’t do your wedding because of my relationship with Jesus Christ.’ We hugged each other and he left, and I assumed it was the end of the story.

The florist is obviously a lovely, kind person. What refusal could have been nicer? Yet they turned on her.

This is quite obvious targeting of Christians.

INC on February 27, 2014 at 5:32 PM

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