Quotes of the day

posted at 10:41 pm on February 19, 2014 by Allahpundit

An anti-gay marriage proposal that roiled Kansas politics is dead, the chairman of a state Senate committee assigned to review it said Tuesday.

But the declaration from Senate Judiciary Committee Chairman Jeff King didn’t appear likely to end the debate over providing legal protections for people and organizations refusing for religious reasons to provide goods and services to gay and lesbian couples. King, an Independence Republican, said he’ll still have hearings on whether Kansas needs to enact religious liberty protections in case the federal courts strike down the state’s gay-marriage ban…

Supporters said their intent was to prevent florists, bakers and photographers from being punished for refusing to participate in same-sex weddings, keep churches from having to provide space or clergy for such ceremonies and keep religiously affiliated adoption agencies from being forced to place children with gay couples. Critics said the bill was much broader than advertised and would encourage discrimination against gays and lesbians.

***

Christians backing this bill are essentially arguing for homosexual Jim Crow laws.

Evangelical pastor Andy Stanley leads North Point Ministries, the second largest church in the U.S. He told me he finds it “offensive that Christians would leverage faith to support the Kansas law.” He said, “Serving people we don’t see eye to eye with is the essence of Christianity. Jesus died for a world with which he didn’t see eye to eye. If a bakery doesn’t want to sell its products to a gay couple, it’s their business. Literally. But leave Jesus out of it.”

Christians serve unrepentant murderers through prison ministry. So why can’t they provide a service for a same-sex marriage?

Some claim it’s because marriage is so sacred. But double standards abound. Christian bakers don’t interrogate wedding clients to make sure their behavior comports with the Bible. If they did, they’d be out of business. Stanley said, “Jesus taught that if a person is divorced and gets remarried, it’s adultery. So if (Christians) don’t have a problem doing business with people getting remarried, why refuse to do business with gays and lesbians.”

***

In New Mexico, a photographer’s business ran afoul of the law for not wanting to take the pictures at a gay wedding ceremony. In most of these cases, the defendants made clear they’d gladly provide goods and services to gay individuals and gay couples. But because of their Christian faith, they did not think in good conscience they should provide goods and services for a gay marriage.

Andy Stanley says, “If a bakery doesn’t want to sell its products to a gay couple, it’s their business.” Actually, gay rights activists have made it the state’s business. They cannot refuse to cooperate without losing their businesses. Is Andy Stanley so out of touch with the world that he does not realize this is happening? Or does he think it is okay that Christians can, in violation of their conscious, provide goods and services to a ceremony they think is sinful?

And do Christians not have the right to petition their government to stop this?…

By the way, Jesus would most certainly turn water to wine for a gay person or a straight person if it led them toward salvation. But Jesus would not provide goods and services for a gay marriage and if you think so, you’re a rather silly person.

***

[T]he Kansas bill and similar bills that protect liberty are about preventing the kind of coercion that happened under Jim Crow. They protect what should be already protected: basic civil liberties such as freedom of association, freedom of contract, and freedom of religion.

Jim Crow and segregation did the exact opposite. Those wicked regimes legally coerced people to keep them separated, to prevent them from associating or contracting. Yet today, we see liberals of various stripes saying the law should coerce people into associating and contracting…

If a central argument of the LGBT movement has been the freedom to live how one chooses sexually, shouldn’t government respect the freedom of citizens to live how they choose in the marketplace? Indeed, respecting religious liberty for all those in the marketplace is particularly important. After all, as first lady Michelle Obama put it: “Our faith journey isn’t just about showing up on Sunday for a good sermon and good music and a good meal. It’s about what we do Monday through Saturday as well.”…

[B]eing a wedding photographer is not simply being “a vendor,” but utilizing God-given talents to tell the story of a particular couple and their relationship. Likewise, many of these professionals understand their obligation to witness to the truth differently – celebrating a same-sex relationship as a marriage affirms that relationship. It is understandable why some religious believers would not want the government coercing them into doing that. The government shouldn’t enshrine Powers’s theology into law and then coerce those who have a different understanding of what their faith requires…

Protecting religious liberty and the rights of conscience does not infringe on anyone’s sexual freedoms. Americans are free to live and love how they choose, but they should not use government to penalize those who think and act differently.

***

It seems pretty clear to me: [under Kansas's bill,] any individual could refuse to provide employment to someone related to any living arrangement they disapprove of. That’s a massive category that could easily mean de facto publicly legislated discrimination against the tiny gay minority. That Anderson does not even consider the concerns of those of us worried by this vague, open-ended law or is in any way interested in the dignity or equality of gay citizens in Kansas (citizens who are currently denied any protection from discrimination in employment, and denied the right to any stable, lawful relationship as well) reveals the blind spot that so many on the far right have.

And he doesn’t explain why such a law should not also include marriages or relationships that are not gay and which nonetheless violate some aspect of religious conscience – like marriages that involved previously divorced people or those that violate some religious strictures against inter-faith marriage. If you’re really defending religious liberty and not just attacking gays, you’d think the law would be a lot broader in its targets.

***

The key point, I think, is that whether the state should compel someone to violate his conscience or protect him in his exercise of it cannot turn on the contents of that conscience. As I argued recently in NR, the Religious Freedom Restoration Act seems to me to get this right. It doesn’t make the protection of conscience an absolute principle. It allows the individual conscience to be overridden when it’s the least restrictive means of serving a compelling governmental interest. The inquiry can’t turn, though, on the government’s judgment of a theological question. In the case of the HHS mandate, for example — where, as it happens, Powers has done a fine job of making the case for religious liberty — the argument for coercing the Little Sisters of the Poor can’t be that their theological scruples about contraception are simply incorrect understandings of Christianity. Plenty of Christians believe that they are incorrect. But it’s not the place of the government to make and enforce that call. In my view, a conscientious Christian could certainly take Powers’s view about what florists and caterers should do. But that doesn’t mean that a conscientious Christian who reaches a different conclusion should be forced to act contrary to it.

***


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Comment pages: 1 3 4 5

Lanceman on February 20, 2014 at 1:27 AM

He’s archy of “Archy and Mehitabel”.

Cindy Munford on February 20, 2014 at 1:32 AM

going2mars on February 20, 2014 at 1:28 AM

That’s a pretty big mental problem as far as I’m concerned. Apparently it is communicable and at epidemic levels.

Cindy Munford on February 20, 2014 at 1:34 AM

Kansas Republicans don’t have a clue what a free society really is. They have to cloak discrimination under the guise of religious freedom because they are scared of the word and misunderstand the concept. They would never pass legislation saying that businesses could discriminate against anyone on the basis of race, creed, color, religion, age, gender, height, weight, disability, familial status, marital status, socioeconomic status, political preference, religious piety, national origin, odor, or appearance. That is, they would never legalize freedom.

Discrimination means freedom. A free society includes the freedom to discriminate based on anything, not just religion, but a free society also includes the freedom to discriminate based on nothing. A free society includes the freedom to discriminate against all gays, not just gay couples, but a free society also includes the freedom to discriminate against anyone, not just gays. And a free society likewise includes the freedom to discriminate whether doing so is logical or illogical, reasonable or unreasonable, rational or irrational.

roflmmfao

donabernathy on February 20, 2014 at 1:36 AM

Cindy Munford on February 20

under the new Obumblecare…
they give you the virus on purpose..!!
forcibly if needed..

going2mars on February 20, 2014 at 1:37 AM

“Boy – Ahh Said, BOY!! Listen to me!! Ah’m not Talkin’ Just To Hear Mah HEAD ROAH!!…”

williamg on February 20, 2014 at 1:31 AM

Ahhhhhshadddap!

Lanceman on February 20, 2014 at 1:40 AM

Josie Cotton – Johnny Are You Queer

non-nonpartisan on February 20, 2014 at 1:40 AM

Better…….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8TQZBHszI4

williamg on February 20, 2014 at 1:41 AM

williamg
love the Foghorn…ty..
he was always a fav in our house..

going2mars on February 20, 2014 at 1:42 AM

going2mars on February 20, 2014 at 1:37 AM

Three more years!!!

Cindy Munford on February 20, 2014 at 1:42 AM

I am hitting the proverbial hay. It has been a little slice of heaven spending time with y’all. Sweet dreams.

Cindy Munford on February 20, 2014 at 1:43 AM

Cindy Munford on February 20

still over a 1000 days…
992 til election day

http://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/to?iso=20161108T07&p0=611&msg=Countdown+until+Obama+is+OUT+OF+OFFICE!&csz=1

going2mars on February 20, 2014 at 1:45 AM

sleep well CM…be safe

going2mars on February 20, 2014 at 1:46 AM

Ahhhhhshadddap!

Lanceman on February 20, 2014 at 1:40 AM

Better…….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8TQZBHszI4

williamg on February 20, 2014 at 1:41 AM

….”Hey, BOY!! – Take that Ball outta your mouth! Ain’t you ever Seen A Baseball Before?!!….”

williamg on February 20, 2014 at 1:50 AM

Christians serve unrepentant murderers through prison ministry. So why can’t they provide a service for a same-sex marriage?

The question is comparing two totally different behaviors. Are the unrepentant murderers of the same sex marrying each other? Christians wouldn’t provide that particular service for them in jail either.

They are ministering to prisoners to change their hearts and bring them to Christ. Can you imagine the uproar if they tried to do the same thing to a same-sex couple? Left-wing judges in some states have already banned ministers and psychologists from helping people with unwanted homosexual desires get rid of those feelings. Did you get that? The people WANT help, but lefty homosexual activists don’t want them to get the help.
They WANT them in the dark.

Sterling Holobyte on February 20, 2014 at 1:55 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8TQZBHszI4

williamg on February 20, 2014 at 1:41 AM

Foahtunately, ah keep mah feathas numbuhed foah jus such an emergency.

Lanceman on February 20, 2014 at 1:55 AM

something awful ewwww …about a boy that don’t play baseball

going2mars on February 20, 2014 at 1:55 AM

“Pay Attention, BOY!! Ah’m CUTTIN’ – But you ain’t Bleedin’!!”

williamg on February 20, 2014 at 1:57 AM

Lanceman
going to the twin 150s tomorrow??

going2mars on February 20, 2014 at 2:03 AM

From the bottom, it looks like a steep incline
From the top, another downhill slope of mine…

My Life Is Falling To Pieces

PointnClick on February 20, 2014 at 2:03 AM

going to the twin 150s tomorrow??
going2mars on February 20, 2014 at 2:03 AM

Nope. I’ll hear it.

Lanceman on February 20, 2014 at 2:09 AM

I hear they tore up a few cars today in practice..
and with 8 or 9 rookies….could be a crashfest..

but it tells those of us that still have feet of snow
on the ground that the new racing season is here…

going2mars on February 20, 2014 at 2:13 AM

Dire Straits was here!..:)

Dire Straits on February 20, 2014 at 2:17 AM

evening DS.. how things in your parts?

going2mars on February 20, 2014 at 2:19 AM

going2mars on February 20, 2014 at 2:19 AM

Just doing a “fly over”..All is well..Hope you are doing well..:)

Dire Straits on February 20, 2014 at 2:27 AM

http://youtu.be/Yd15f9yyN1I

31giddyup on February 20, 2014 at 2:50 AM

RATS! ABOVE..OPPS.

31giddyup on February 20, 2014 at 2:54 AM

Rats! Above…opps.

31giddyup on February 20, 2014 at 2:55 AM

Hey who erased my cookies?

SparkPlug on February 20, 2014 at 3:13 AM

evening DS.. how things in your pants?

going2mars on February 20, 2014 at 2:19 AM

Well you are getting kind of personal don’t you think?

SparkPlug on February 20, 2014 at 3:14 AM

Rats! Above…opps.

31giddyup on February 20, 2014 at 2:55 AM

His name is Ratso. He drinks toilet water while OC pees on his Applehead.

SparkPlug on February 20, 2014 at 3:15 AM

Ah, thank you. I needed that! hehehhehe

31giddyup on February 20, 2014 at 3:19 AM

Christians serve unrepentant murderers through prison ministry. So why can’t they provide a service for a same-sex marriage?

Indeed they do. They hope to have the murderers repent of their murders, proclaim Christ as their savior and murder no more.

We try to do the exact same thing for the homosexuals, but most of the LGBT community seems to find that action offensive. I’m glad you seem to be coming around to it.

Pattosensei on February 20, 2014 at 4:09 AM

The slippery slope continues

cmsinaz on February 20, 2014 at 5:23 AM

If one vendor doesn’t want to provide services go to another vendor…..isn’t that called choice?

cmsinaz on February 20, 2014 at 5:31 AM

Sophie Ro, wherever you are,

Lanceman on February 20, 2014 at 12:20 AM

Doesn’t anybody have any idea what her last name is? Maybe it starts with Ro or maybe that’s her middle name.

crankyoldlady on February 20, 2014 at 5:34 AM

barnicle and donnie covering for mika and joe….

ugh

cmsinaz on February 20, 2014 at 6:05 AM

no wonderr mika’s in. she would have had a heart attack while nicole read wehner’s blistering critique or president redline.

renalin on February 20, 2014 at 6:09 AM

renalin on February 20, 2014 at 6:09 AM

indeed….and the nyt guy trying to defend obama against that piece…can’t do it…

cmsinaz on February 20, 2014 at 6:12 AM

op eds like that are destructive
-donnie

puhleeze, they seem to forget the 8 years under W don’t they….

cmsinaz on February 20, 2014 at 6:14 AM

cmsinaz on February 20, 2014 at 6:14 AM

nicole wallace doesn’t know if a minimum wage increase would hurt the economy.

and she the “republican”

renalin on February 20, 2014 at 6:22 AM

hillary is looking pretty good compared to the gop contenders…she’s got nothing to worry about…
-donnie

cmsinaz on February 20, 2014 at 6:34 AM

gop needs to have a paul ryan or a jeb bush kind of guy to compete against hillary
-politico guy

puhleeze, the lsm always likes to tell the gop what they need to do…

renalin on February 20, 2014 at 6:22 AM

smh mini Joe

cmsinaz on February 20, 2014 at 6:37 AM

Good Morning, Patriots! And, Trolls.

Enough is enough. The permanent political class in D.C. won’t listen. So, let’s start putting our efforts behind good new candidates who will go to Washington not to line their own pockets, but to help restore our country. It’s time to put inspiration, ingenuity, and integrity over incumbency in the GOP.

– Sarah Palin, 2/19/14

My take: Palin, Abbott, & Nugent: Standing Up For Texas

kingsjester on February 20, 2014 at 7:04 AM

cmsinaz on February 20, 2014 at 6:37 AM

msnbc hot on the scott walker email trail.

gotta investigate it thoroughly.

can’t take it any more. i dvr’d American Idol. cause how worse can it suck?

renalin on February 20, 2014 at 7:06 AM

I hear ya Renalin….. a new squirrel

cmsinaz on February 20, 2014 at 7:12 AM

Nice take KJ :)

cmsinaz on February 20, 2014 at 7:14 AM

cmsinaz on February 20, 2014 at 7:14 AM

Thank you, ma’am!

kingsjester on February 20, 2014 at 7:17 AM

Allahpundit, very good article.

SC.Charlie on February 20, 2014 at 7:24 AM

Darn, I did not win the Powerball again. In fact, as usual, I did not match one number.

SC.Charlie on February 20, 2014 at 7:39 AM

Coulda sworn it was kenny. Might be barney.

Bmore on February 20, 2014 at 8:15 AM

I hope the Motor City Madman helps!

KOOLAID2 on February 20, 2014 at 8:15 AM

Allahpundit, very good articles.

SC.Charlie on February 20, 2014 at 7:24 AM

FIFM

Bmore on February 20, 2014 at 8:20 AM

There was one Poweball ticket that one the huge jackpot of around $425M …………….. in California. I hope that the winner(s) enjoy paying that high California income tax.

SC.Charlie on February 20, 2014 at 8:44 AM

Jesus didn’t bake the prostitute a cake to celebrate her sinful act; He forgave her and told her to sin no more.

PaddyORyan on February 20, 2014 at 9:08 AM

Jesus didn’t bake the prostitute a cake to celebrate her sinful act; He forgave her and told her to sin no more.

PaddyORyan on February 20, 2014 at 9:08 AM

Jesus neither condemned nor condoned her actions. Similarly, Christians are to neither condemn nor CONDONE any sins. Why is this so hard for the secularists to understand?

Micah68 on February 20, 2014 at 10:24 AM

Micah68 on February 20, 2014 at 10:24 AM

I understand what you are saying but actually he did condemn her behavior by calling it sin and telling her not to continue in that behavior.

Rose on February 20, 2014 at 1:58 PM

“Pay Attention, BOY!! Ah’m CUTTIN’ – But you ain’t Bleedin’!!”

williamg on February 20, 2014 at 1:57 AM
.
This has nothing to do with frank.

It’s just my favorite line from that cartoon :

“. . . No, I’d better not look … I just might be in there.”

listens2glenn on February 20, 2014 at 3:10 PM

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