NYT: Private practice doctors are fleeing to hospitals, and that is not a pro

posted at 4:41 pm on February 14, 2014 by Erika Johnsen

If there’s one thing ObamaCare has really achieved so far, it’s been the mass infliction of uncertainty onto so many aspects of the healthcare sector — and the resulting incentives, if they aren’t driving people out of the profession altogether, are driving both primary care doctors and specialists to forego the private-practice model for salaried jobs with hospitals. So sayeth the NYT, while noting that this particular shift away from “fee for service” private practices, for which certain health economists have long advocated because of the way they can incentivize doctors to oversell medical services, isn’t necessarily going to result in better or cheaper care for patients:

Last year, 64 percent of job offers filled through Merritt Hawkins, one of the nation’s leading physician placement firms, involved hospital employment, compared with only 11 percent in 2004. The firm anticipates a rise to 75 percent in the next two years. …

“In many places, the trend will almost certainly lead to more expensive care in the short run,” said Robert Mechanic, an economist who studies health care at Brandeis University’s Heller School for Social Policy and Management. …

But many of the new salaried arrangements have evolved from hospitals looking for new revenues, and could have the opposite effect. For example, when doctors’ practices are bought by a hospital, a colonoscopy or stress test performed in the office can suddenly cost far more because a hospital “facility fee” is tacked on. …

Hospitals have been offering physicians attractive employment deals, with incomes often greater than in private practice, since they need to form networks to take advantage of incentives under the new Affordable Care Act. Hospitals also know that doctors they employ can better direct patients to hospital-owned labs and services.

“From the hospital end there’s a big feeding frenzy, a lot of bidding going on to bring in doctors,” Mr. Mechanic said. “And physicians are going in so they don’t have to worry — there’s a lot of uncertainty about how health reform is going to play out.”

In a nutshell, all of this consolidation is quickly yielding more and more power and influence for already-powerful hospitals in determining prices, which in turn is likely to result in less competition and still higher prices for consumers.

Oy. As Krauthammer put it the other night, via RCP:

When you’re personally hurt, it affects your vote a lot more than that you have a disagreement over policy with a party or two. And that, I think, is why the Democrats are so scared. This is no abstract issue anymore. People are losing their insurance. They are losing their doctors. They are losing their hospitals. Some of them are losing jobs or losing hours as a result over the law, and it isn’t as if people are waiting for another disaster on the website. … When you decide to revolutionize a sixth of the U.S. economy and to issue tens of thousands of regulations on as delicate an ecosystem as American medicine, you deserve the blame for everything that goes wrong.


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As usual, liberals are shocked! shocked! at the results of their collectivist stupidity.

They seem incapable of comprehending basic economics and human behavioral psychology that a child could explain.

Art Vandelay on February 14, 2014 at 4:48 PM

Just the racist ones…

BigWyo on February 14, 2014 at 4:48 PM

Look on the bright side, you don’t have to pay any money to visit South America now.

Art Vandelay on February 14, 2014 at 4:49 PM

I heard an expression on a Ricochet podcast in the context of a discussion about a centralization of power: honeycomb structure. As a metaphor, I like it, and I think it needs to be spread.

Rather than top-down command, we need the power of the honeycomb.

BuckeyeSam on February 14, 2014 at 4:54 PM

“In many places, the trend will almost certainly lead to more expensive care in the short run,” said Robert Mechanic, an economist who studies health care at Brandeis University’s Heller School for Social Policy and Management. …

The duece you say! Who could have foreseen this!!!

HumpBot Salvation on February 14, 2014 at 4:56 PM

We’re already ruled by the leftist hive.

Let’s all sit back and welcome our new insect overlords!

Art Vandelay on February 14, 2014 at 4:56 PM

Agenda 21 is going to be super cool. Like Xander-zone cool.

Murphy9 on February 14, 2014 at 4:56 PM

Who could have foreseen this!!!

HumpBot Salvation on February 14, 2014 at 4:56 PM

So much consternation and perplexity in the faculty lounge.

Art Vandelay on February 14, 2014 at 4:57 PM

A “Does THIS hurt?” valentine <3

going out to every Leftist I’ve talked to in the last 4 years who was outrageously outraged by my prediction that Obamacare was going to be an economic and medical services catastrophe for this country.

Now bend over further so “Dr. Obama” can check your tonsils.

PolAgnostic on February 14, 2014 at 5:00 PM

bayam! Come out and play…

Del Dolemonte on February 14, 2014 at 5:00 PM

My VPN still works

DarkCurrent on February 14, 2014 at 5:00 PM

noting that this particular shift away from “fee for service” private practices, for which certain health economists have long advocated because of the way they can incentivize doctors to oversell medical services, isn’t necessarily going to result in better or cheaper care for patients

This trend has been underway for many year, it’s nothing new. Hospitals simply have the most pricing power because in so many areas a given hospital has monopoly or duopoly status. This transition is the last refuge for providers trying to hide from the accountable care model.

As usual, liberals are shocked! shocked! at the results of their collectivist stupidity.

They seem incapable of comprehending basic economics and human behavioral psychology that a child could explain.

No one is shocked except for the low information Fox News fanbase and right wing radio braintrust. And do tell us how basic economics and behavioral psychology explain the success of accountable care in other countries, such as France and Germany. Let’s not pretend there’s a serious argument behind all your whining.

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 5:01 PM

I think the far more telling poll number is the majority of Americans see this as government trying to control our lives.

John the Libertarian on February 14, 2014 at 5:01 PM

This is on track to become the biggest screw-up in American history.

trigon on February 14, 2014 at 5:03 PM

This is on track to become the biggest second biggest screw-up in American history.

There, fixed it for you.

Rambotito on February 14, 2014 at 5:07 PM

Is there no limit as to the wickedness of George Bush? /sarc

307wolverine on February 14, 2014 at 5:08 PM

…You deserve the blame for everything that goes wrong…

And then we see Nancy Pelosi’s twin sister’s $hit eating smirk…

What is that hag’s name …

BigWyo on February 14, 2014 at 5:09 PM

In my experience from the physicians I’ve known and worked with over the years, the vast majority of them really, really hate the idea of socialized medicine.

otlset on February 14, 2014 at 5:10 PM

Although I think Shannon Bream is absolutely yummy, I just didn’t understand her characterization of the comparison of the October poll to the current poll. Unfortunately, Special Report didn’t show a side-by-side comparison. But here you go:

October 2013: Better–21%; Worse–35%; Same–39%–there’s 5% missing.

February 2014: Better–9%; Worse–25%; Same–65%.

Okay, those who think it will improve things dropped, but so did those who think it will make things worse by almost the same amount.

After watching this debacle unfold since October, I’d think the Worse number would be higher than in October with the number of Same finally getting off the fencepost.

With 65% saying the same, it suggests that too many people are saying, “Whatevs.” And with voters taking that stance, they’ll never go against the first black president’s major legislative enactment.

What am I missing?

BuckeyeSam on February 14, 2014 at 5:12 PM

the success of accountable care in other countries, such as France and Germany

So now we’re calling it ‘accountable care’?

Is that sort of like the Obamacare version of ‘climate weirding’

And let’s hear about this riproaring success–take it away!

Art Vandelay on February 14, 2014 at 5:12 PM

No one is shocked

Really? You’d better phone the White House.

Art Vandelay on February 14, 2014 at 5:14 PM

And do tell us how basic economics and behavioral psychology explain the success of accountable care in other countries

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 5:01 PM

Uh, Einstein? Whenever you use government coercion to obtain your goals, it’s anything but basic economics and behavioral psychology. It’s social engineering.

John the Libertarian on February 14, 2014 at 5:15 PM

If there’s one thing ObamaCare has really achieved so far, it’s been the mass infliction of uncertainty onto so many aspects of the healthcare sector — and the resulting incentives, if they aren’t driving people out of the profession altogether, are driving both primary care doctors and specialists to forego the private-practice model for salaried jobs with hospitals.

Precisely what the fascist leftist thugs want.

Those who leave altogether are replaced with 3rd world personnel, not necessarily doctors as they are known in the US. See England, Canada and most of (Western) Europe.

Single payer under duress…Hillary’care’, soon enough.

Wake up sheepleton, or suffer, suffer, suffer. Any relatively free people who do this to themselves deserve NO better.

Schadenfreude on February 14, 2014 at 5:15 PM

Blah,Blah,Blah,Blah,Blah,Blah,Blah,Blah,…France…Germany!!!

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 5:01 PM

explain the success of accountable care in other countries, such as France and Germany.

Jeeze, you a$$holes used to always use Great Britain for your “Look at how good they’re doing it” bull$hit straw man.

And what in the Hell does ‘Accountable Care’ even mean??

BigWyo on February 14, 2014 at 5:17 PM

Those who leave altogether are replaced with 3rd world personnel, not necessarily doctors as they are known in the US. See England, Canada and most of (Western) Europe.

Hiii everybodddy, eet’s Dr. Nick!

Art Vandelay on February 14, 2014 at 5:20 PM

Look on the bright side, you don’t have to pay any money to visit South America now.

Art Vandelay on February 14, 2014 at 4:49 PM

Yeah:

Top Obamacare Administrator: “Let’s Just Make Sure It’s Not a Third-World Experience”

FAIL!

Obamacare Co-Author: This Puppy’s Looking Like a “Huge Train Wreck” So Far.

And of course the person who uttered that last quote is now on his way to China.

climbnjump on February 14, 2014 at 5:22 PM

We’re screwed in TN then…hospitals can’t employee providers…that is why nonprofit healthcare systems have for profit clinics in the state.

ladyingray on February 14, 2014 at 5:23 PM

Great, you invited the fvckwad in, and he showed up.

BeachBum on February 14, 2014 at 5:26 PM

Hiii everybodddy, eet’s Dr. Nick!

Art Vandelay on February 14, 2014 at 5:20 PM

Psychic! That is just the guy I was thinking of. LOL!

KirknBurker on February 14, 2014 at 5:28 PM

explain the success of accountable care in other countries, such as France and Germany.

Jeeze, you a$$holes used to always use Great Britain for your “Look at how good they’re doing it” bull$hit straw man.

And what in the Hell does ‘Accountable Care’ even mean??

BigWyo on February 14, 2014 at 5:17 PM

That’s what I’m talking about- quick at name calling and ad hominem attacks when you don’t even comprehend the underlying ideas behind healthcare reform.

Affordable care is the only way US healthcare costs will fall into line with other industrialized nations and keep US manufacturers competitive in the global economy. It’s also the only way the US can absorb the massive costs of an aging population as millions retire and become eligible for Medicare.

http://www.aetnaacs.com/what-accountable-care

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 5:29 PM

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 5:29 PM

I love how you’re so concerned concerned about the US…where do you live again?

BeachBum on February 14, 2014 at 5:29 PM

Just wait. Wait till Obama reads in the papers about this.

Nobody’ll be angrier.

ugottabekiddingme on February 14, 2014 at 5:30 PM

We should listen some more to self-anointed elites like bayam.

Look where it’s gotten us already!

Art Vandelay on February 14, 2014 at 5:32 PM

Amen, Charles Krauthammer.

In other news the Democrat Party is going to institute single payer food distribution. Because food prices are so high and food growers, distributors, and manufacturers are ripping people off the Obama administration is going to organize food distribution so it is fairer. They plan to pass a law that you can get your food and beverages is a less costly and better organized manner. Soon you will go to a government website where you can order your groceries for the coming year, prices will controlled so nobody is treated unfairly. There will enough arugula and whole wheat bread for all at sustainable prices.

Viator on February 14, 2014 at 5:32 PM

So the NYT is finally acknowledging critics were right? Shocker.

ojfltx on February 14, 2014 at 5:33 PM

Drywall will probably show up next to tell us how much better things are in Canada, and this time I’ll believe him.

Art Vandelay on February 14, 2014 at 5:33 PM

Huh? Well, what d’ya know? Doctors can’t afford to maintain their private practice so they go to work for hospitals.

Golly. Someone who goes to school for 8 years, racks up all sorts of debt to get his/her diploma and can’t open a private practice because there’s no money in it so, instead, becomes an employee of a hospital making half of what they would have made.

It’s looking like we’re going to have a severe shortage of American doctors in the near future.

Better bone up on your farsi, mandarin and the many dialects of India because we’re not going to have too many American doctors pretty soon.

Ruckus_Tom on February 14, 2014 at 5:34 PM

We’re already ruled by the leftist hive.

Let’s all sit back and welcome our new insect overlords!

Art Vandelay on February 14, 2014 at 4:56 PM

I’m gettin’ the Raid.

Laura Castellano on February 14, 2014 at 5:39 PM

Affordable care is the only way US healthcare costs will fall into line with other industrialized nations and keep US manufacturers competitive in the global economy. It’s also the only way the US can absorb the massive costs of an aging population as millions retire and become eligible for Medicare.

http://www.aetnaacs.com/what-accountable-care

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 5:29 PM

That is garbage. The way to lower the price of something is to increase the supply, have transparent pricing, and maximize competition.
Affordable care is a euphamistic expression for rationing. Only the government can cause a shortage of a needed good, and their working hard to do so in medicine now.
Obamacare does nothing and will do nothing to reduce cost–it is all about establishing government control and monitoring of your life and is designed to fail so that the D’s can ride in and heroically introduce single payer as the “cure” for all the “crisis” that are the direct results of their policies.

More later, gotta run…

Doc Holliday on February 14, 2014 at 5:39 PM

When you decide to revolutionize a sixth of the U.S. economy and to issue tens of thousands of regulations on as delicate an ecosystem as American medicine, you deserve the blame for everything that goes wrong.

Let me guess, Charles didn’t invest in Google and Apple, missing out on historic wealth creation as those companies demonstrated the inexorable path of technological change that’s now underway. The transformation of the pc, entertainment, and ad industries were shocking, just shocking to him!

The smart money, in venture capital and beyond, is betting that technology is about to disrupt and transform healthcare. Obamacare has created an opening, and the incredible innovation in healthcare going on today is completely beyond the ability of Charles to understand it. If confronted by someone like Larry Page or Marc Andreesen, Charles might think he’s encountered an alien life form.

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 5:39 PM

And what in the Hell does ‘Accountable Care’ even mean??

BigWyo on February 14, 2014 at 5:17 PM

Again..WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT EVEN MEAN YOU JACKA$$??

BigWyo on February 14, 2014 at 5:40 PM

While the tea party continues to whin within themselves, more Americans are signing up for Obamacare everyday.

The war is lost Tea party. I am not the biggest fan of the law however the tea party needs to understand that most people have moved on from the website issues that caused big sign up issues last year.

loveofcountry on February 14, 2014 at 5:41 PM

When you subsidize something, it becomes more expensive. My big fat 400 pound lib brother in law looooves him some obamacare. Now instead of losing weight, he can get his diabetes, heart, gout and testosterone meds for free and not even worry about losing the weight which caused his diabetes, heart, gout and testosterone conditions. Ain’t life grand.
Oh and btw, he’s a lawyer and is doing some creative accounting to get his self employed income down to where he is eligible for this. He still has his directv sunday ticket too.

BeachBum on February 14, 2014 at 5:42 PM

Healthcare costs were affordable, before the government got involved.

And now these imbeciles want us to accept their premise that govt will fix the problem they created?

GTFO!

Murphy9 on February 14, 2014 at 5:44 PM

http://www.aetnaacs.com/what-accountable-care

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 5:29 PM

Jesus Christ, and then you throw up a link to an insurance company???

BigWyo on February 14, 2014 at 5:45 PM

Again..WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT EVEN MEAN YOU JACKA$$??

BigWyo on February 14, 2014 at 5:40 PM

It means rationing but brayam won’t say that, he doesn’t even live in the US.

BeachBum on February 14, 2014 at 5:45 PM

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 5:29 PM

You’re a moron, nuff said.

obamacare doesn’t make healthcare affordable or make it accountable.

HumpBot Salvation on February 14, 2014 at 5:46 PM

loveofcountry on February 14, 2014 at 5:41 PM

Oh great, here we go…

Just move there already.

BigWyo on February 14, 2014 at 5:47 PM

While the tea party continues to whin within themselves, more Americans are signing up for Obamacare everyday.

The war is lost Tea party. I am not the biggest fan of the law however the tea party needs to understand that most people have moved on from the website issues that caused big sign up issues last year.

loveofcountry on February 14, 2014 at 5:41 PM

Go back to sleep Rip. Or at least take the time to read some of the articles on HotAir from the past couple days.

Everything you said is wrong.

HumpBot Salvation on February 14, 2014 at 5:47 PM

The smart money, in venture capital and beyond, is betting that technology is about to disrupt and transform healthcare. Obamacare has created an opening, and the incredible innovation in healthcare going on today is completely beyond the ability of Charles to understand it. If confronted by someone like Larry Page or Marc Andreesen, Charles might think he’s encountered an alien life form.

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 5:39 PM

Wow, who’d ya steal that from??

BigWyo on February 14, 2014 at 5:48 PM

And what in the Hell does ‘Accountable Care’ even mean??

BigWyo on February 14, 2014 at 5:17 PM

Again..WHAT THE HELL DOES THAT EVEN MEAN YOU JACKA$$??

BigWyo on February 14, 2014 at 5:40 PM

Already pasted a link, can’t you read?

http://www.aetnaacs.com/what-accountable-care

It means that when coronavirus or other deadly pathogen breaks out in the hospital, infecting Grandma, the hospital can’t bill Medicare to treat her. It has to prevent virus outbreaks or pay the price.

It means that healthcare providers don’t profit from ordering unnecessary or duplicative tests- instead providers are compensated for healthy outcomes.

In other words, it’s one of the most important terms in health economics and if you don’t understand it, you don’t understand the case for healthcare reform.

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 5:49 PM

Healthcare costs were affordable, before the government got involved.

And now these imbeciles want us to accept their premise that govt will fix the problem they created?

GTFO!

Murphy9 on February 14, 2014 at 5:44 PM

Yep…when I was a kid in the 50′s the only policy my parents had was major medical. When our doctor made a HOUSE call or when we went to his office, my mother wrote a check. In those days you didn’t go to the doctor for a hangnail like my lib brother in law does. When people see what the cost is, they act accordingly and I don’t recall people dying in the streets.

BeachBum on February 14, 2014 at 5:50 PM

most people have moved on

This will be true of doctors, anyways.

Good job, good effort!

Art Vandelay on February 14, 2014 at 5:50 PM

The smart money, in venture capital and beyond, is betting that technology is about to disrupt and transform healthcare.

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 5:39 PM

Uh, Einstein? Apple and Google are examples of the free market at work. Praytell, what is this “beyond” venture capital you speak of? Government coercion? Again, if the free market is about to pull off these miracles, why did the government need to come in and stifle it with regulations by force?

If it’s such a groovy law, why the need to spend a billion dollars to advertise it? Why the need for a mandate? Why not a single solitary bipartisan vote in favor of it?

The fail is strong in this one.

John the Libertarian on February 14, 2014 at 5:51 PM

don’t understand the case for healthcare reform.

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 5:49 PM

And healthcare reform is NOT OBAMACARE. Now, where do you live again?

BeachBum on February 14, 2014 at 5:51 PM

First post:
 

No one is shocked except for the low information Fox News fanbase and right wing radio braintrust.
 
bayam on February 14, 2014 at 5:01 PM

 
Second post:
 

That’s what I’m talking about- quick at name calling and ad hominem attacks when you don’t even comprehend the underlying ideas behind healthcare reform.
 
bayam on February 14, 2014 at 5:29 PM

 
Good to see you again, bayam.

rogerb on February 14, 2014 at 5:52 PM

Good to see you again, bayam.

rogerb on February 14, 2014 at 5:52 PM

You and nobody else..ever…

BigWyo on February 14, 2014 at 5:54 PM

“In many places, the trend will almost certainly lead to more expensive care in the short run,” said Robert Mechanic, an economist who studies health care at Brandeis University’s Heller School for Social Policy and Management. …

In the long run, they will go to single payer and tell everyone what it should cost and how much of a salary they should make.

Walter L. Newton on February 14, 2014 at 5:55 PM

Giant medical centers processing the hordes (or herds) of sick people…

albill on February 14, 2014 at 5:57 PM

Already pasted a link, can’t you read?
bayam on February 14, 2014 at 5:49 PM

Yeah, I can read just fine. You posted a link from an insurance company…You don’t suppose they have a stake in this entire cluster#&#k do you jacka$$??

BigWyo on February 14, 2014 at 5:59 PM

Ticker guy has some excellent and informative posts on the cost of healthcare.

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?blog=Market-Ticker&cat=Health%20Reform

Murphy9 on February 14, 2014 at 5:59 PM

Good to see you again, bayam.
 
rogerb on February 14, 2014 at 5:52 PM

 
You and nobody else..ever…
 
BigWyo on February 14, 2014 at 5:54 PM

 
C’mon, now. He hasn’t even said “Bill Gates” for us yet.

rogerb on February 14, 2014 at 6:00 PM

Again, if the free market is about to pull off these miracles, why did the government need to come in and stifle it with regulations by force?

You tell me, why are you parroting the talking points of right wing radio and not echoing the beliefs of venture capitalists and healthcare entrepreneurs? Why do you claim to be such a friend of private market innovation, and yet oppose the kind of change that’s lead venture capitalists to invest billions of dollars in digital health companies in the last couple years?

Why not a single solitary bipartisan vote in favor of it?

Why do conservatives generally oppose change? Why is the number of conservatives who believe in evolution? shrinking? I don’t know.

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 6:02 PM

That’s because the intent of the law was to destroy the private health care system.
Now it’s true that the existing system needs to be destroyed, and every single person
involved in the outrageous acts of the last 30 years, which I allege ought to be felonies
under The Sherman and Clayton Acts (and yes, I freely acknowledge that the industry
“lobbied”, otherwise knowing as bribed , Congress into exempting them), should be sitting in
pound-you-in-the-ass Federal Prison and the entirety of their personal and corporate
fortunes should be forfeit as proceeds of a felonious criminal scheme.
However, that is not the land we live in legislatively today.
Back in 2009 I made the bald prediction that what ACA was going to do (after reading the
entire bill, which most people did not) was destroy what was left of private health care in
the United States. It could do nothing other than that because it protected, in statute , the
outrageous asset-stripping schemes that our health system had embodied, it protected acts
that in virtually any other line of business would be felonies and it ensconced in statute ,
backed by government force, the demand that you personally fund that crap to and in fact
beyond the limit of your ability to pay.
It thus had to either destroy the health care industry, the economy or both .
Well, it’s going to be both unless it’s stopped folks.
We, the people, must demand that it be stopped , but not just stopped alone, because
the system that it was layered on top of was already destined to destroy this nation
economically.
Instead, we must demand full application of The Sherman and Clayton Acts upon all
facets of the health care system, including all aspects that cross national boundaries.
In other words if you charge someone $30,000 a dose for a drug you bought for $100 a
couple hundred miles away, and manage to extract that because it’s a felony for an
ordinary person to go buy and bring back for resale said $100 drug, you go to pound-you-
in-the-ass federal prison and every nickel you own in assets, corporately and
personally, is forfeit.
That stops this crap immediately and at the same time drops the cost of medical care in this
country by up to 80% overnight. It ends all Federal and State budget problems overnight .
It eliminates the need for expensive “health insurance”, reducing the need for everyone to
mere catastrophic coverage which costs a few hundred dollars a year instead of thousands,
as care for even really nasty and chronic conditions can be bought for cash.
And for those who are truly destitute, it makes true charity care not only an option but one
that will bear fruit and result in them receiving a reasonable amount of care paid for by
voluntary acts of those doing the giving.
We solve this or we’re economically destroyed as a nation folks.
It’s that simple.

Murphy9 on February 14, 2014 at 6:03 PM

C’mon, now. He hasn’t even said “Bill Gates” for us yet.

rogerb on February 14, 2014 at 6:00 PM

Just teasing…

You prolly chased it off.

BigWyo on February 14, 2014 at 6:03 PM

Second post:

Good to see you again, bayam.

rogerb on February 14, 2014 at 5:52 PM

Come on, that was directed at a large group, not very personal ;)

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 6:05 PM

Uh, Einstein? Apple and Google are examples of the free market at work. Praytell, what is this “beyond” venture capital you speak of? Government coercion? Again, if the free market is about to pull off these miracles, why did the government need to come in and stifle it with regulations by force?

If it’s such a groovy law, why the need to spend a billion dollars to advertise it? Why the need for a mandate? Why not a single solitary bipartisan vote in favor of it?

John the Libertarian on February 14, 2014 at 5:51 PM

I am waiting for Bayam to answer this. I suspect that won’t happen.

FAIL.

Fathom on February 14, 2014 at 6:05 PM

I wonder if bayam as our self-described intellectual superior can tell us how close we are to utopia?

Art Vandelay on February 14, 2014 at 6:06 PM

Already pasted a link, can’t you read?
bayam on February 14, 2014 at 5:49 PM

Yeah, I can read just fine. You posted a link from an insurance company…You don’t suppose they have a stake in this entire cluster#&#k do you

If you think their definition is biased, search for it on Google and find a source you find more reliable. Good diversion though, once again attack the source and not the facts.

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 6:07 PM

If there’s one thing ObamaCare has really achieved so far, it’s been the mass infliction of uncertainty onto so many aspects of the healthcare sector
========

Obama health care law
5h
President Obama says years from now, people will regard

Affordable Care Act as ‘monumental achievement’

that wouldn’t have happened without House Democrats pushing it through – @dsupervilleap
see original on twitter.com
============================

PETER MAER ‏@petermaercbs 6h

Pres thanks House Dems for “hanging in there tough” on Obamacare.

Says 10 or 5 years from now,

it will be seen as “a monumental achievement.”
==============================================

canopfor on February 14, 2014 at 6:08 PM

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 6:02 PM

Again…what does this have to do with Obamacare? Because it is NOT lowering costs and it is NOT increasing access.

BeachBum on February 14, 2014 at 6:08 PM

Already pasted a link, can’t you read?
bayam on February 14, 2014 at 5:49 PM

Yeah, I can read just fine. You posted a link from an insurance company…You don’t suppose they have a stake in this entire cluster#&#k do you
If you think their definition is biased, search for it on Google and find a source you find more reliable. Good diversion though, once again attack the source and not the facts.

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 6:07 PM

Bayam, you are just pathetic. Not trying to debate, just stating a fact.

Fathom on February 14, 2014 at 6:11 PM

once again attack the source and not the facts.

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 6:07 PM

How about giving us the “facts” about obamacare? What exactly is it doing to “improve” the healthcare in the US? I specified the US because you don’t even live here.

BeachBum on February 14, 2014 at 6:14 PM

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 6:02 PM

Again…what does this have to do with Obamacare? Because it is NOT lowering costs and it is NOT increasing access.

BeachBum on February 14, 2014 at 6:08 PM

Funny how all those previously uninsured with pre-existing conditions who can now afford insurance now have access. If you want to focus on the website problems and every negative, yes, the roll out hit a lot of bumps, as did the expansion of Medicare Part D under Bush.

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 6:15 PM

Uh, Einstein? Apple and Google are examples of the free market at work. Praytell, what is this “beyond” venture capital you speak of? Government coercion? Again, if the free market is about to pull off these miracles, why did the government need to come in and stifle it with regulations by force?

If it’s such a groovy law, why the need to spend a billion dollars to advertise it? Why the need for a mandate? Why not a single solitary bipartisan vote in favor of it?

John the Libertarian on February 14, 2014 at 5:51 PM
I am waiting for Bayam to answer this. I suspect that won’t happen.

FAIL.

Fathom on February 14, 2014 at 6:05 PM

Oh, and if you creep back in here later to post some follow-up about how you kicked ass, I’ll ask again that you address those questions.

Fathom on February 14, 2014 at 6:15 PM

If you think their definition is biased, search for it on Google and find a source you find more reliable. Good diversion though, once again attack the source and not the facts.

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 6:07 PM

Definition of WHAT??

JackA$$.

BigWyo on February 14, 2014 at 6:16 PM

once again attack the source and not the facts.

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 6:07 PM

I specified the US because you don’t even live here.

BeachBum on February 14, 2014 at 6:14 PM

I don’t live in the US? Show me exactly when I said that… or do you believe in every rumor that’s started without even verifying its truthfulness?

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 6:16 PM

bayam obviously has NO clue about the French and German systems.

Death panels are them.

Schadenfreude on February 14, 2014 at 6:16 PM

Mandates are specific to obama’care’ only.

Schadenfreude on February 14, 2014 at 6:17 PM

Oh, and if you creep back in here later to post some follow-up about how you kicked ass, I’ll ask again that you address those questions.

Fathom on February 14, 2014 at 6:15 PM

Already did, read the thread instead of repeating the same post over and over again. I’ll add that Google and Apple are examples of the free market when entrepreneurs exist who believe in the inevitability of technological change.

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 6:18 PM

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 6:15 PM

Access? HAHAHAHAHA..yeah access…how about all the cancelled policies? How about the fact that the policies that people can afford are Bronze plans where the deductible is 12k? That’s not healthcare, that’s health insurance which doesn’t = care.

BeachBum on February 14, 2014 at 6:19 PM

bayam obviously has NO clue about the French and German systems.

Death panels are them.

Schadenfreude on February 14, 2014 at 6:16 PM

Not sure you’re actually that naive, but hard to say

http://www.zocalopublicsquare.org/2011/11/30/how-doctors-die/ideas/nexus/

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 6:20 PM

Drywall will probably show up next to tell us how much better things are in Canada, and this time I’ll believe him.

Art Vandelay on February 14, 2014 at 5:33 PM

Alas, Drywall is no more.

Lanceman on February 14, 2014 at 6:20 PM

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 6:15 PM

And the website is the LEAST of it’s problems. I didn’t even mention it. Have you looked at the plans or do you just listen to MSDNC? I’ve looked at the plans and guess what? There is NO “healthcare” there for me unless I get hit by a bus. But for that “catastrophic” plan the taxpayers are on the hook for 12k a year. Wow, that’s fantastic!!!

BeachBum on February 14, 2014 at 6:22 PM

Fathom on February 14, 2014 at 6:15 PM

No..no..no… You have to understand how this works. They pick and chose which posts to reply to. The always choose the ones where they can either muddy the waters or throw up a straw man. If some one nails them down on something, like true liberals, they ignore it and claim victory.

BigWyo on February 14, 2014 at 6:22 PM

Alas, Drywall is no more.

Lanceman on February 14, 2014 at 6:20 PM

He’s prolly busy trying to ‘educate’ the population of Frozen Toe Alberta on how they can stick it to the Man.

BigWyo on February 14, 2014 at 6:24 PM

No one is shocked except for the low information Fox News fanbase and right wing radio braintrust. People who predicted this coming four years ago, and gave warning to this outcome specifically.

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 5:01 PM

Man that’s one heck of a fix for you there.

Maybe you can explain how these “low information” idiots were right, and the “smartest man in the room” was a compete idiot who didn’t see this disaster building for years.

I mean sure the predictions from the intelligentsia were great.

If you like your plan, you can keep your plan.

This will add 2 million high paying jobs immediately.

This will drastically reduce the cost of health insurance.

I guess “low information” means “has a good rational view of reality” to you? SO “low information” is a compliment? Or is your view that smart people get things wrong and stupid people get things correct because of some other reason?

gekkobear on February 14, 2014 at 6:26 PM

Oh, and if you creep back in here later to post some follow-up about how you kicked ass, I’ll ask again that you address those questions.

Fathom on February 14, 2014 at 6:15 PM
Already did, read the thread instead of repeating the same post over and over again. I’ll add that Google and Apple are examples of the free market when entrepreneurs exist who believe in the inevitability of technological change.

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 6:18 PM

You are a liar. Let’s see how you “answered this”…..

Uh, Einstein? Apple and Google are examples of the free market at work. Praytell, what is this “beyond” venture capital you speak of? Government coercion? Again, if the free market is about to pull off these miracles, why did the government need to come in and stifle it with regulations by force?

If it’s such a groovy law, why the need to spend a billion dollars to advertise it? Why the need for a mandate? Why not a single solitary bipartisan vote in favor of it?

The fail is strong in this one.

John the Libertarian on February 14, 2014 at 5:51 PM

Again, if the free market is about to pull off these miracles, why did the government need to come in and stifle it with regulations by force?
You tell me, why are you parroting the talking points of right wing radio and not echoing the beliefs of venture capitalists and healthcare entrepreneurs? Why do you claim to be such a friend of private market innovation, and yet oppose the kind of change that’s lead venture capitalists to invest billions of dollars in digital health companies in the last couple years?

Why not a single solitary bipartisan vote in favor of it?
Why do conservatives generally oppose change? Why is the number of conservatives who believe in evolution? shrinking? I don’t know.

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 6:02 PM

Second post:

Good to see you again, bayam.

rogerb on February 14, 2014 at 5:52 PM
Come on, that was directed at a large group, not very personal ;)

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 6:05 PM

Already pasted a link, can’t you read?
bayam on February 14, 2014 at 5:49 PM

Yeah, I can read just fine. You posted a link from an insurance company…You don’t suppose they have a stake in this entire cluster#&#k do you
If you think their definition is biased, search for it on Google and find a source you find more reliable. Good diversion though, once again attack the source and not the facts.

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 6:07 PM

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 6:02 PM

Again…what does this have to do with Obamacare? Because it is NOT lowering costs and it is NOT increasing access.

BeachBum on February 14, 2014 at 6:08 PM
Funny how all those previously uninsured with pre-existing conditions who can now afford insurance now have access. If you want to focus on the website problems and every negative, yes, the roll out hit a lot of bumps, as did the expansion of Medicare Part D under Bush.

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 6:15 PM

once again attack the source and not the facts.

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 6:07 PM

I specified the US because you don’t even live here.

BeachBum on February 14, 2014 at 6:14 PM
I don’t live in the US? Show me exactly when I said that… or do you believe in every rumor that’s started without even verifying its truthfulness?

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 6:16 PM

These are all of your posts since the questions were asked. Again, you a pathetic liar when you say you already addressed them.

Pathetic.

Fathom on February 14, 2014 at 6:27 PM

Simple question.

Which is cheaper… hospitals or private practice?

Private practice.

So… good job, you just found a new way to make everything worse.

Karmashock on February 14, 2014 at 6:30 PM

What’s really cute is brayam coming in here, spouting crap he himself really has no idea about, and it all hinges on

1, obama actually cares to improve the human condition,
2, obama actually has experience doing anything other than being an angry black man,
3, the democrats do not actually view the rabble as being able to live without their benign intervention and
4, government is far less corrupt than the private sector.

Argue with an idiot at your own peril.

Lanceman on February 14, 2014 at 6:31 PM

Fathom on February 14, 2014 at 6:15 PM
No..no..no… You have to understand how this works. They pick and chose which posts to reply to. The always choose the ones where they can either muddy the waters or throw up a straw man. If some one nails them down on something, like true liberals, they ignore it and claim victory.

BigWyo on February 14, 2014 at 6:22 PM

Sorry, been reading this site for years but new to posting here….. of course, people like Bayam are pretty much the same on any website….. strong on “for the children!” and weak on logic, common sense, etc…..

Fathom on February 14, 2014 at 6:33 PM

My Internist and my gastroenterologist offices have both been bought out by the same hospital. My Father who was a radiologist was forced to go to separate billing, when Medicare/Medicare wanted radiologists to become employees of the hospital. This was around 30 years ago. All radiologists did the same thing. The result was just another layer of paperwork.

SC.Charlie on February 14, 2014 at 6:34 PM

Sorry, been reading this site for years but new to posting here….. of course, people like Bayam are pretty much the same on any website….. strong on “for the children!” and weak on logic, common sense, etc…..

Fathom on February 14, 2014 at 6:33 PM

So, pretty much the definition of a Progressive???

BigWyo on February 14, 2014 at 6:35 PM

Hi, I’m Bayam and I’ll be your troll tonight……
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.

aaaaaaaand, scene!

Fathom on February 14, 2014 at 6:36 PM

Accountable Care Organizations is rationing of healthcare. It is not innovative or unique. Just a fancy word for rationing which will only serves to hurt those it is intended to help. Well Mr Smith, I realize that you can’t walk because the arthritis in your knee is so bad and you need surgery, but the govt won’t pay me unless we try 24 months of physical therapy then 12 more months of injections. I’m really sorry Mr Smith. As the CMS regulations have demonstrated, the amount of paperwork and oversight needed to ensure that all is being done “correctly” (in quotes because the majority of CMS regulations have no basis in in any evidenced based medicine – possibly before but has been debunked) is cumbersome and inhibits either a) the amount of time they can spend with a patient or b) the number of patients they can see. On average, a primary care physician spends 50% or more of time doing paperwork mandated by the govt. All for less reimbursement. Is there any wonder that there is a primary care crisis in this country. As an Emergency Physician I am looking to be out of this career in the next 1-2 years simply due to Obamacare and the increased govt mettling. It is no longer about caring for patients, it is about obeying the almighty govt in an effort to get paid. Accountable Care Organizations will be the undoing of medicine in this country.

I once asked a lib physician why the govt had to monitor quality benchmarks and tie payments to it, rather than have the private accreditation organizations such as JCHAO do it as a measure for accreditation. He was stumped. Unfortunately the liberal mind can only see one way of doing anything – the govt way.

HughJass on February 14, 2014 at 6:45 PM

And Bayam, the innovative future of medicine will be concierge medicine – healthcare managed by those who know it best.

HughJass on February 14, 2014 at 6:47 PM

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 5:29 PM

What about the millions that can’t afford the deductibles much less a subsidized policy?Some will stay on Medicade that everyone working pays for.If they can’t afford the deductible there is NO healthcare unless it is a trauma case.The ER’s must take those then bill the patient if they survive.Just because some little law says you have to have insurance doesn’t mean you have to have it.

docflash on February 14, 2014 at 6:51 PM

You tell me, why are you parroting the talking points of right wing radio and not echoing the beliefs of venture capitalists and healthcare entrepreneurs?

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 6:02 PM

Parroting? Do you even know what the law forces people to do? See, this is what I call liberal “magical thinking”. They think they know what venture capitalists believe, when they have no idea how entrepreneurs think and ridicule and pillory the 1 percent out of fear and loathing.

Not a single VC or entrepreneur wants the government anywhere near their garages of invention. But keep thinking happy thoughts, I’m sure the law will be a smashing success if you keep wishing hard enough.

Why do you claim to be such a friend of private market innovation, and yet oppose the kind of change that’s lead venture capitalists to invest billions of dollars in digital health companies in the last couple years?

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 6:02 PM

You got me there! When the much easier path is to be a family member of Valerie Jarrett, or an old college friend of Michelle’s? Einstein, they’ve been investing billions of dollars in EMRs (which means Electronic Medical Records) for the past 15 years.

Why not a single solitary bipartisan vote in favor of it?
Why do conservatives generally oppose change? Why is the number of conservatives who believe in evolution? shrinking? I don’t know.

bayam on February 14, 2014 at 6:02 PM

Your arses are hanging in the wind on this one, bayam. You better hope and pray things turn around fast.

John the Libertarian on February 14, 2014 at 6:59 PM

Hey Bayam

How did google’s foray into health care technology fare?

Once again, you fukking moron. obamacare does nothing to make healthcare affordable or accountable.

And your strawman…conservatives hate technology? As ignorant as the rest of the drivel you spew.

Oh and btw, the Great Britain health care system has always been a failure and the French health care system is imploding.

HumpBot Salvation on February 14, 2014 at 7:02 PM

Funny how all those previously uninsured with pre-existing conditions who can now afford insurance now have access.
 
bayam on February 14, 2014 at 6:15 PM

 
+1
 
All 107,000 of them.

(3/100ths of 1% of the population)
 
Tell, please, what has this cost again?

rogerb on February 14, 2014 at 7:03 PM

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