Ninth Circuit: The Second Amendment guarantees the right to carry a gun in public

posted at 4:01 pm on February 13, 2014 by Allahpundit

Via Gabe Malor, who’s already found the tastiest chestnuts in the opinion. The novelty here isn’t the ruling itself but the court issuing it. It’s the Ninth Circuit, which has jurisdiction over the west coast and typically leans left thanks to liberal all-stars like Stephen Reinhardt. (He wasn’t part of the panel that heard this one, thankfully.) With today’s ruling, the Ninth joins the Seventh in holding that the Second Amendment, just as it says, includes a right to “bear” arms. States can regulate that right but they can’t ban it altogether. Three other federal appellate courts have ruled the other way, all but guaranteeing that SCOTUS will end up deciding this sooner rather than later. Memo to the Court’s conservatives: Grant cert ASAP, please, before Obama gets another appointment.

The particular statute at issue here was San Diego’s law banning concealed carry. The only way to get a permit there is to show a “unique risk of harm.” Wanting to carry a gun for self-defense without showing a special need isn’t good enough. The Supreme Court’s Heller ruling six years ago already guaranteed the right to possess a gun at home, so the question today was whether limiting carry to one’s own household is a permissible state regulation of the right to bear arms or an impermissible outright prohibition. Given the text of the Amendment, says the Ninth Circuit, the answer is obvious:

2a

If, as the Supremes found in Heller, the Second Amendment is ultimately a right of self-defense then it’s goofy to think that the right can be limited to one’s own home. If anything, the ability to defend yourself is more urgent when you’re not protected by four walls. A little more from the majority’s conclusion:

2a2

You can ban open carry or you can ban concealed carry but you can’t ban carry entirely without completely depriving people of their right to “bear.”

Here’s the opinion. A history lesson on America’s long jurisprudential tradition of defending the right to carry begins on page 23; brush up for the next time someone on the left insists that these activist conservative courts have gone rogue in defending gun rights. Big question now: Will this ruling survive? It was heard by a three-judge panel, as is custom for appellate cases. But the entire Ninth Circuit can request an “en banc” hearing of 11 judges, a majority of whom might be liberal, to reconsider it. Probably doesn’t matter either way. This issue is headed to the Supreme Court no matter what the Ninth does.

Exit question: Wendy “Open Carry” Davis must be thrilled at the news, no?


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I have re thought this ninth circuit vote..
if this goes up hill to the SCOTUS..
and the ninth circuit is the most over turned court in the land..
hmm…is the ninth betting they will get overturned on this one too??

sorta like…we’ve always been screw-ups….
everyone knows were screw-ups…
they expect us to be a screw up court…
surely they will over turn this one too knowing were a screwed up court.
its twisted I know…

going2mars on February 13, 2014 at 6:36 PM

They did say it wasn’t for them to “pronounce the Second Amendment extinct.” Maybe they’re just hoping the SCOTUS does that for them.

CurtZHP on February 13, 2014 at 6:43 PM

Interesting. The military base where I work just revised and reissued their order on personal weapons. The bottom line is;

- All weapons on base must be registered with the military police.
- There is no open or concealed carry allowed regardless of whether you have a permit.
- If you live on base all weapons must be stored in a locked box that meets their standards. Basically a gun safe.
- If you do not have a gun safe then the weapons must be kept in one of the base armories.
- When you transport your weapons they must be unloaded and placed in the trunk of the car or if your car does not have a trunk then they must be as far away from you in the car as possible.

I worked at this same base in the early 90′s and I used to take guns into the office and was able to go to the range at lunch and do some recreational shooting. As a member of the gun club on base I was also able to purchase a refurbished M1 Garand for $100.

Now we are doing our best to disarm the people we trust with government issued rifles and machineguns when we go to the field. Stupid.

SoonerMarine on February 13, 2014 at 6:43 PM

It could be very risky going to the SCOTUS if a decent number of the sane judges were the ones hearing this case.

ajacksonian on February 13, 2014 at 6:41 PM

2-1 decision.

2 cons

1 lib

antipc on February 13, 2014 at 6:46 PM

How do you think Ted Cruz became a Senator?

Gerrymandering.

lostmotherland on October 17, 2013 at 1:39 PM

NotCoach on February 13, 2014 at 4:19 PM

Man, that NEVER gets old…

LOL…

BigWyo on February 13, 2014 at 6:50 PM

ajacksonian on February 13, 2014 at 6:41 PM

with a 2-1 decision
they are prolly just mailing it in…
going to Washington for a va-cay…
smoke some good grass…
do some spring skiing…
be one with nature…
chant…
tan…

going2mars on February 13, 2014 at 6:51 PM

They did say it wasn’t for them to “pronounce the Second Amendment extinct.” Maybe they’re just hoping the SCOTUS does that for them.

CurtZHP on February 13, 2014 at 6:43 PM

Fortunately, it’s not up to SCOTUS either.

The only legal way to eliminate the 2nd amendment is through the amendment process itself. In any case, if we no longer live under the rule of law, what is stopping the rest of us from deciding we can pick and choose which laws apply to us individually? You’d think our lawless President would have considered that before he decided to force the Rule of Obama upon us.

Wendya on February 13, 2014 at 6:52 PM

Now we are doing our best to disarm the people we trust with government issued rifles and machineguns when we go to the field. Stupid.

SoonerMarine on February 13, 2014 at 6:43 PM

This is an issue I’d really like to see tackled.
Supposedly I have “the right to bear arms”, along with a state issued CHP – but since I also work, and of course park my car, on a military base, I must be defenseless for my entire 50 mile roundtrip commute (and any side trips before or after work) every day that I go to work.

dentarthurdent on February 13, 2014 at 6:53 PM

antipc on February 13, 2014 at 6:46 PM

going2mars on February 13, 2014 at 6:51 PM

Rare that an en banc will overturn the initial ruling.

If I were on the defense I’d give up just like IL did in their case and become ‘shall issue’.

ajacksonian on February 13, 2014 at 7:04 PM

Meanwhile: http://abcnews.go.com/US/jury-loud-music-murder-trial-end-day-verdict/

libfreeordie on February 13, 2014 at 4:04 PM

I only made one post. How can I be blamed for high jacking this thread?

libfreeordie on February 13, 2014 at 4:48 PM

“Mommy, that kid over there isn’t like us. We want him kicked out of the playground.”

lostmotherland on February 13, 2014 at 4:26 PM

Hopefully this will encourage more “good guys with guns” to stand their ground in movie theaters when someone’s texting bothers them.

Pablo Honey on February 13, 2014 at 6:06 PM

Well we can tell who is not raising the intellect or the honesty of the left. What a bunch.

Say Lanceman, was it you that was telling us about your ‘respect’ for Libfree just yesterday. I told you he’s a troll.

CWchangedhisNicagain on February 13, 2014 at 7:07 PM

Nah wendy doesn’t need a gun just an abortionist. They do her killing for her.

crosshugger on February 13, 2014 at 7:08 PM

This is an issue I’d really like to see tackled.
Supposedly I have “the right to bear arms”, along with a state issued CHP – but since I also work, and of course park my car, on a military base, I must be defenseless for my entire 50 mile roundtrip commute (and any side trips before or after work) every day that I go to work.

dentarthurdent on February 13, 2014 at 6:53 PM

Are there any gun stores near the base? maybe they would be willing to run a “gun check” service. Sounds like a business opportunity for someone.

kcewa on February 13, 2014 at 7:12 PM

orangemtl on February 13, 2014 at 6:24 PM

Funny how the REAL world works, aint it?

Yes. The inverse relationship between gun ownership rates and crime rates drive progressives through the roof: necessitating their complete refusal to acknowledge existence of said data.

I almost wish I had a very liberal neighbor—but only, mind you in order to post a ‘Firearm Free Zone’ sign in my yard, with a big arrow pointing in the direction of the most advantageous robbery site. Fun!

orangemtl on February 13, 2014 at 7:14 PM

“…the verb whose original meaning is key in this case…”

Say whaaaaaa??? But if we adhere to words’ original meaning, what will happen to “gay” and “marriage”!?!?!?

And you thought we couldn’t turn a gun thread into a h0m0 thread.

Nutstuyu on February 13, 2014 at 7:23 PM

SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED

…even in CA. AT least somewhat.

Nevermind all the GUNS are illegal. But you can probably at least defend yourself soon in more places, soon.

TX-96 on February 13, 2014 at 7:23 PM

Meanwhile: http://abcnews.go.com/US/jury-loud-music-murder-trial-end-day-verdict/story?id=22480172

libfreeordie on February 13, 2014 at 4:04 PM

In that case, the Defendant, a social misfit, who consumed a few drinks at a wedding reception, parks his VW at a convenience store beside four young teens playing loud music. When the youths scoffed at his ‘White Privilege’ to demand that the music be turned down, he whips out his 9mm and fires ten times, killing one. Then, when his girlfriend gets in the car, they drive 2.5 hours home, order a pizza and walk the puppy. When did he call 911 to report that he had to use self defense on these kids? Oh, he didn’t. Overnight, his story changed from “I thought I saw a stick or something” to “they threatened me with a shotgun” even though he never told his girlfriend about the gun.

I’m sorry, you point was what?

BigAlSouth on February 13, 2014 at 7:25 PM

Meanwhile: http://abcnews.go.com/US/jury-loud-music-murder-trial-end-day-verdict/story?id=22480172 libfreeordie on February 13, 2014 at 4:04 PM

Oh well ok! I forgot that we were governed by the ABCNEWStitution!

You are a complete blithering idiot.

Akzed on February 13, 2014 at 7:29 PM

This is an issue I’d really like to see tackled.
Supposedly I have “the right to bear arms”, along with a state issued CHP – but since I also work, and of course park my car, on a military base, I must be defenseless for my entire 50 mile roundtrip commute (and any side trips before or after work) every day that I go to work.

dentarthurdent on February 13, 2014 at 6:53 PM

The gun grabbers will not address that problem because it’s a part of their strategy. Ditto the idiotic “no guns within X feet of a school, hospital, nursery, tattoo parlor, abortion house, etc, etc”.

Someone in Atlanta looked at one of the liberal proposals and drew all those circles on a map, and demonstrated that it would become impossible to get from one point to another in most of the city. That’s the plan!

slickwillie2001 on February 13, 2014 at 7:30 PM

Are there any gun stores near the base? maybe they would be willing to run a “gun check” service. Sounds like a business opportunity for someone. kcewa on February 13, 2014 at 7:12 PM

Who has to pay for rights?! Those who don’t have them otherwise. I mean, I know we have them regardless, I’m just talking practicality.

In DE we have to present affidavits from five acquaintances that we aren’t crazy or violence prone, take a four-hour $350 gun safety course, AND publish in a local newspaper that we are applying for a CCP.

This last nicety results in a large percentage of applicants’ homes being robbed for their guns because miscreants scan the papers for these ads, according to a cop who responded to a friend’s burglary – the day after he put his ad in.

The cop who responded to his report asked him if he was a CCP applicant since all that was taken were his weapons. The cop said it happens all the time, including the previous day in the next development up the road.

So if this kind of despotism survives this ruling as some sort of “reasonable regulation,” I’ll just keep doing what I’m doing.

Akzed on February 13, 2014 at 7:37 PM

The gun grabbers will not address that problem because it’s a part of their strategy. Ditto the idiotic “no guns within X feet of a school, hospital, nursery, tattoo parlor, abortion house, etc, etc”. slickwillie2001 on February 13, 2014 at 7:30 PM

That was struck down years ago.

Akzed on February 13, 2014 at 7:38 PM

Are there any gun stores near the base? maybe they would be willing to run a “gun check” service. Sounds like a business opportunity for someone.

kcewa on February 13, 2014 at 7:12 PM

Good idea! Liability insurance would be a bear, but a gun store already has to deal with that.

GWB on February 13, 2014 at 7:38 PM

I object to there being a permit required for the 2nd Amendment.

You don’t need one for the FIRST AMENDMENT…

ConstantineXI on February 13, 2014 at 7:38 PM

That was struck down years ago.

Akzed on February 13, 2014 at 7:38 PM

Really only on the federal level. Some of the states have passed similar measures (though usually not affecting private property) once the federal law was struck down. “Bearing” on school property is still verboten, though – almost everywhere.

GWB on February 13, 2014 at 7:42 PM

Seriously,

Can Hotair have their polling guy do one those site polls for all of us. Here are three questions to get started:

1) Do you Carry?
2) If so, do you carry Open or Concealed?
3) If you carry, what is your firearm?
4) Do you have a weapon for ‘home defense’?
5) What is your ‘home defense weapon?
6) Do you own a ‘longarm’?
7) What is your favorite longarm to shoot?
8) If the country collapses into Chaos and you have to head to the local supermarket to be the ‘Warlord’ of your neighborhood, what guns and equipment do you carry?

I forgot the guys name who does the polls, but this poll could be fun, interesting, and give us some insights on our posters/readers, etc.

Anybody else up for a poll like this?

Oh, and good luck on Valentine’s Day tomorrow. Remember to ‘validate her feelings’ and she’ll luv the 100 1-pointers better than 1 100-pointer. I have no clue WHY. But try it out.

KirknBurker on February 13, 2014 at 7:46 PM

GWB on February 13, 2014 at 7:42 PM

There was also a move not long ago to declare the interstate system a national park, so e.g. everyone within x miles of I95 couldn’t even keep a heater in his home.

These terds are relentless. And terds.

Akzed on February 13, 2014 at 7:51 PM

Seriously,

Can Hotair have their polling guy do one those site polls for all of us. Here are three questions to get started:

1) Do you Carry?
2) If so, do you carry Open or Concealed?
3) If you carry, what is your firearm?
4) Do you have a weapon for ‘home defense’?
5) What is your ‘home defense weapon?
6) Do you own a ‘longarm’?
7) What is your favorite longarm to shoot?
8) If the country collapses into Chaos and you have to head to the local supermarket to be the ‘Warlord’ of your neighborhood, what guns and equipment do you carry?

KirknBurker on February 13, 2014 at 7:46 PM

The proper answer to all the questions is none of your business.

RickB on February 13, 2014 at 7:52 PM

KirknBurker on February 13, 2014 at 7:46 PM

RickB on February 13, 2014 at 7:52 PM

Not with the NSA being all rogue and all.

Akzed on February 13, 2014 at 7:59 PM

The proper answer to all the questions is none of your business.

RickB on February 13, 2014 at 7:52 PM

+1!

alchemist19 on February 13, 2014 at 8:02 PM

KirknBurker on February 13, 2014 at 7:46 PM

 
You’d be surprised at how many of us have had boating accidents in the last few years.

rogerb on February 13, 2014 at 8:03 PM

Interesting. The military base where I work just revised and reissued their order on personal weapons. The bottom line is;

- All weapons on base must be registered with the military police.
- There is no open or concealed carry allowed regardless of whether you have a permit.
- If you live on base all weapons must be stored in a locked box that meets their standards. Basically a gun safe.
- If you do not have a gun safe then the weapons must be kept in one of the base armories.
- When you transport your weapons they must be unloaded and placed in the trunk of the car or if your car does not have a trunk then they must be as far away from you in the car as possible.

I worked at this same base in the early 90′s and I used to take guns into the office and was able to go to the range at lunch and do some recreational shooting. As a member of the gun club on base I was also able to purchase a refurbished M1 Garand for $100.

Now we are doing our best to disarm the people we trust with government issued rifles and machineguns when we go to the field. Stupid.

SoonerMarine on February 13, 2014 at 6:43 PM

I’ve never understood this. It’s a military base. Has no one learned anything from Ft. Hood?

Nutstuyu on February 13, 2014 at 8:03 PM

That was struck down years ago.

Akzed on February 13, 2014 at 7:38 PM

Lopez struck it down in 1995 but I thought Congress tried to reinstitute it or something a lot like it some years later. After all it’s a dirty and underhanded enough idea that Congress just might do it.

alchemist19 on February 13, 2014 at 8:06 PM

I’ve never understood this. It’s a military base. Has no one learned anything from Ft. Hood?

Nutstuyu on February 13, 2014 at 8:03 PM

Are you seriously asking if the government learns from its mistakes or are you just being facetious?

alchemist19 on February 13, 2014 at 8:07 PM

BigAlSouth on February 13, 2014 at 7:25 PM

Sorry to continue this OT, but you left out just a couple of tiny details:

After the shots were fired, the young men in the SUV left the scene. Did they call 911? No. Did they drive their dying friend to a hospital? No. They drove a short distance away, where two witness saw them possibly trying to ditch something in an empty lot — which the police did not search for several days. Then they returned to the shooting scene while their friend died in the car. Why?

Alien on February 13, 2014 at 8:08 PM

You’d be surprised at how many of us have had boating accidents in the last few years.

rogerb on February 13, 2014 at 8:03 PM

Oh god, I remember that day. Out on an inflatable raft with all my guns in a river, lake or stream whose name nor location I can remember, big storm comes up out of nowhere, things get rough, boat capsizes, guns all sink to the bottom, I barely escape with my life. All guns tragically lost and never recovered.

alchemist19 on February 13, 2014 at 8:08 PM

I object to there being a permit required for the 2nd Amendment.

You don’t need one for the FIRST AMENDMENT…

ConstantineXI on February 13, 2014 at 7:38 PM

.
Shhhhh . . . not so loud … you wanna give them ideas?

listens2glenn on February 13, 2014 at 8:10 PM

Are you seriously asking if the government learns from its mistakes or are you just being facetious?

alchemist19 on February 13, 2014 at 8:07 PM

Yes.

Nutstuyu on February 13, 2014 at 8:11 PM

Yes.

Nutstuyu on February 13, 2014 at 8:11 PM

HA!

alchemist19 on February 13, 2014 at 8:20 PM

In that case, the Defendant, a social misfit, who consumed a few drinks at a wedding reception, parks his VW at a convenience store beside four young teens playing loud music. When the youths scoffed at his ‘White Privilege’ to demand that the music be turned down, he whips out his 9mm and fires ten times, killing one. Then, when his girlfriend gets in the car, they drive 2.5 hours home, order a pizza and walk the puppy. When did he call 911 to report that he had to use self defense on these kids? Oh, he didn’t. Overnight, his story changed from “I thought I saw a stick or something” to “they threatened me with a shotgun” even though he never told his girlfriend about the gun.

I’m sorry, you point was what?

BigAlSouth on February 13, 2014 at 7:25 PM

10 shots to hit one guy? This is what we mean by proper gun control…

affenhauer on February 13, 2014 at 8:29 PM

After living in AZ for a decade, I couldn’t imagine moving back to a blue State. (like MD)

No ccw permit needed here. Open carry is legal. You can carry however you wish.

As it should be.

I could never go back to MD, although I carried there too, risking 5 years mandatory inprisonment. I won’t live defenseless. Ever.

wolly4321 on February 13, 2014 at 8:37 PM

They drove a short distance away, where two witness saw them possibly trying to ditch something in an empty lot — which the police did not search for several days. Then they returned to the shooting scene while their friend died in the car. Why?

Alien on February 13, 2014 at 8:08 PM

Two witnesses testified in court to that? Really? What were their names?

Sorry, you are mistaken/incorrect/lying. Try again.

BigAlSouth on February 13, 2014 at 8:50 PM

Interesting. The military base where I work just revised and reissued their order on personal weapons. The bottom line is;

- All weapons on base must be registered with the military police.

- There is no open or concealed carry allowed regardless of whether you have a permit.

- If you live on base all weapons must be stored in a locked box that meets their standards. Basically a gun safe.

- If you do not have a gun safe then the weapons must be kept in one of the base armories.

- When you transport your weapons they must be unloaded and placed in the trunk of the car or if your car does not have a trunk then they must be as far away from you in the car as possible.

I worked at this same base in the early 90′s and I used to take guns into the office and was able to go to the range at lunch and do some recreational shooting. As a member of the gun club on base I was also able to purchase a refurbished M1 Garand for $100.

Now we are doing our best to disarm the people we trust with government issued rifles and machineguns when we go to the field. Stupid.

SoonerMarine on February 13, 2014 at 6:43 PM
.

I’ve never understood this. It’s a military base. Has no one learned anything from Ft. Hood?

Nutstuyu on February 13, 2014 at 8:03 PM

.
Are you seriously asking if the government learns from its mistakes or are you just being facetious?

alchemist19 on February 13, 2014 at 8:07 PM
.

Yes.

Nutstuyu on February 13, 2014 at 8:11 PM

.
HA!

alchemist19 on February 13, 2014 at 8:20 PM

.
I’m pretty sure “yes” is the best possible answer … : )
.
Hey, SoonerMarine … your post is very enlightening and educational, to those of us on the outside.

Thankyou.

listens2glenn on February 13, 2014 at 8:51 PM

Meanwhile: http://abcnews.go.com/US/jury-loud-music-murder-trial-end-day-verdict/story?id=22480172

libfreeordie on February 13, 2014 at 4:04 PM

In that case, the Defendant, a social misfit, who consumed a few drinks at a wedding reception, parks his VW at a convenience store beside four young teens playing loud music. When the youths scoffed at his ‘White Privilege’ to demand that the music be turned down, he whips out his 9mm and fires ten times, killing one. Then, when his girlfriend gets in the car, they drive 2.5 hours home, order a pizza and walk the puppy. When did he call 911 to report that he had to use self defense on these kids? Oh, he didn’t. Overnight, his story changed from “I thought I saw a stick or something” to “they threatened me with a shotgun” even though he never told his girlfriend about the gun.

I’m sorry, you point was what?

BigAlSouth on February 13, 2014 at 7:25 PM

It is a pointless post. If the guy had driven over the teens with his vehicle, would lfod be advocating banning automobiles? Guns aren’t made for killing people, they are made for protecting innocent people by killing predators, regardless of species. If we got rid of every valuable tool for protecting people, just because it is sometimes abused by bad actors, then most government social programs would have been repealed long long ago, and soldiers or cops wouldn’t be allowed to have guns either.

s1im on February 13, 2014 at 8:54 PM

Great when they get it right. Hopefully it stands. Whether in the house or on the street, you have the right to defend yourself, and with a concealed gun if you so choose.

zacmidnigh on February 13, 2014 at 8:54 PM

Alien on February 13, 2014 at 8:08 PM

Let me try to help you out. Witness for the defense in the Dunn trial:

Day 4:
Randy Berry
Beverly Berry
Frank Thompson
Darrion Ates
Michelle Reeves
Ronald Davis
Chris Dunn
Phyllis Molinaro
Lexi Molinaro
Travis Oliver
Don Moes

Day 5:
(An expert who was not allowed to testify)
Michael Dunn

Darrion Ates and Michelle Reeves were the only two witnesses called by the defense who were not character witnesses or members of the wedding party. These two?

Try again.

BigAlSouth on February 13, 2014 at 9:05 PM

Say Lanceman, was it you that was telling us about your ‘respect’ for Libfree just yesterday. I told you he’s a troll.

CWchangedhisNicagain on February 13, 2014 at 7:07 PM

I never said anything about respect.

Lanceman on February 13, 2014 at 9:09 PM

Guns aren’t made for killing people, they are made for protecting innocent people by killing predators, regardless of species.

s1im on February 13, 2014 at 8:54 PM

.
I pride myself on thinking-up great quotes like that, but I hadn’t thought of that one.
‘Predators of all species’, is straight to the point, with total accuracy.

Kudos !
.

If we got rid of every valuable tool for protecting people, just because it is sometimes abused by bad actors, then most government social programs would have been repealed long long ago, and soldiers or cops wouldn’t be allowed to have guns either.
.
s1im on February 13, 2014 at 8:54 PM

.
We’d also have to ban and confiscate most carpentry tools, as well as cooking/culinary utensils.

listens2glenn on February 13, 2014 at 9:10 PM

Are there any gun stores near the base? maybe they would be willing to run a “gun check” service. Sounds like a business opportunity for someone.

kcewa on February 13, 2014 at 7:12 PM

Nope. The base is 10 miles out of town in the prairie.
federal policy that military bases are gun free zones – and Fort Hood showed how well that works.

dentarthurdent on February 13, 2014 at 9:10 PM

(An expert who was not allowed to testify)
Michael Dunn

BigAlSouth on February 13, 2014 at 9:05 PM

The guy who played Dr. Loveless? I’m not surprised he wasn’t allowed to testify. He’s dead.

Lanceman on February 13, 2014 at 9:12 PM

Try again.

BigAlSouth on February 13, 2014 at 9:05 PM

From CNN, of all places:

This promises to be a bone of contention in the case, as [defense attorney]Strolla told jurors that not only did the teens leave the gas station parking lot, they stopped in an adjacent lot about 100 yards away before returning and asking someone to call 911. They had “ample time to get rid of a firearm or pipe,” Strolla said.

Also, Strolla said, the witnesses cannot account for two of the teens’ whereabouts immediately after the shooting, and two witnesses initially told police the teens appeared to be “stashing” something.

No weapon was found because the police did not secure the parking lot to conduct a proper search, Strolla said, and it was days before authorities looked in the nearby bushes and Dumpsters.

Could you point out where I stated that the witnesses testified in the trial? Are all witnesses to a crime questioned in court?

Alien on February 13, 2014 at 9:14 PM

Bought Mrs ConcealedKerry a sweet little Smith Wesson Bodyguard 380 for Valetines Day! Longest trigger pull on a weapon I have ever felt, told her no need for that safety, and the noise from that little bugger should have any perps ears ringing!

ConcealedKerry on February 13, 2014 at 9:20 PM

Oh god, I remember that day. Out on an inflatable raft with all my guns in a river, lake or stream whose name nor location I can remember, big storm comes up out of nowhere, things get rough, boat capsizes, guns all sink to the bottom, I barely escape with my life. All guns tragically lost and never recovered.

alchemist19 on February 13, 2014 at 8:08 PM

Yup – just went out for a 3 hour tour, ship aground on a desert isle, spent several years there with a group of wackos, finally got rescued somehow, no idea where the island is – but all my guns are still there….

dentarthurdent on February 13, 2014 at 9:21 PM

KirknBurker on February 13, 2014 at 7:46 PM

Guns? What guns?

Wyznowski on February 13, 2014 at 9:22 PM

I got a Llama .380 Micromax. Like a baby gov’t model. but it has a 21lb letoff on the trigger.

Lanceman on February 13, 2014 at 9:22 PM

I’ve never understood this. It’s a military base. Has no one learned anything from Ft. Hood?

Nutstuyu on February 13, 2014 at 8:03 PM

No.

dentarthurdent on February 13, 2014 at 9:22 PM

Are all witnesses to a crime questioned in court? Alien on February 13, 2014 at 9:14 PM

One would hope so.

And it’s not a crime until a conviction.

wolly4321 on February 13, 2014 at 9:25 PM

Further, Mr. Al:

It is apparent that you have made up your mind about the Dunn trial and its outcome. It recalls the Trayvon Martin case, and how those who disagreed with the verdict made up their own version of the details, ignoring the actual evidence and testimony.

I refuse to engage you further on this subject. The verdict will be announced any day, and there will certainly be a thread to discuss it. I’ll close out this off-topic chatter now.

Alien on February 13, 2014 at 9:26 PM

Yup – just went out for a 3 hour tour, ship aground on a desert isle, spent several years there with a group of wackos, finally got rescued somehow, no idea where the island is – but all my guns are still there….

dentarthurdent on February 13, 2014 at 9:21 PM

Ginger says “hi”.

Armed Texan on February 13, 2014 at 9:27 PM

10 shots to hit one guy? This is what we mean by proper gun control…

affenhauer on February 13, 2014 at 8:29 PM

Some people will have guns that really shouldn’t have them.
Just like some people shouldn’t be allowed to have knives, drive cars or airplanes, or have pressure cookers, or buy fertilizer and rent trucks.
Too bad, life’s tough – which is why sane responsible law-abiding people should not have their rights infringed because there are bad people and psychos out there.

dentarthurdent on February 13, 2014 at 9:29 PM

Ginger says “hi”.

Armed Texan on February 13, 2014 at 9:27 PM

I liked Mary Anne the best…

dentarthurdent on February 13, 2014 at 9:30 PM

Bought Mrs ConcealedKerry a sweet little Smith Wesson Bodyguard 380 for Valetines Day! Longest trigger pull on a weapon I have ever felt, told her no need for that safety, and the noise from that little bugger should have any perps ears ringing!

ConcealedKerry on February 13, 2014 at 9:20 PM

How do you like that Bodyguard? A friend of mine got one of those and what’s driving him nuts is that the slide won’t stay open after the last round is fired. Sent it back to S&W twice already.

CurtZHP on February 13, 2014 at 9:31 PM

I’ve never understood this. It’s a military base. Has no one learned anything from Ft. Hood?

Nutstuyu on February 13, 2014 at 8:03 PM

And with where I work, I don’t want or need to bring my gun with me into the office – VERY secure area. I’d just like to be able to have it in my car, and leave it there while at work, so I have it for the commute – without risking a felony.

dentarthurdent on February 13, 2014 at 9:34 PM

Bought Mrs ConcealedKerry a sweet little Smith Wesson Bodyguard 380 for Valetines Day! Longest trigger pull on a weapon I have ever felt, told her no need for that safety, and the noise from that little bugger should have any perps ears ringing!

ConcealedKerry on February 13, 2014 at 9:20 PM

Mrs Dent has a Ruger LCP (.380) – also a very long trigger pull. She’s still trying to get used to it – tends to shoot the dirt in front of the target. And it’s a specific problem to the LCP – she’s right on target with other guns.

dentarthurdent on February 13, 2014 at 9:36 PM

True fact re: open carry:

As any veteran can attest, when deployed in a combat zone, on every FOB I’ve ever been to, “carry” is not only permitted – but mandatory. When I was in Iraq, even when OFF duty, you had to carry your personal weapon.

AND you had were REQUIRED to carry live ammunition. As an officer, I could get away with carrying an M-9 (9 mm Beretta semi-auto handgun). Everybody else carried their M-4 or M-16.

Not loaded, but with full magazines at the ready. The PX’s even sold these cute little pouches you could stick a 30 round magazine in and tie to the buttstock of your weapon. Some of the female soldiers even dolled them up, with embroidery or their initials. Seriously.

I wore a cool faux leather shoulder holster some Iraqi conman sold me.

When I say mandatory, I mean mandatory: God help you if some 1st Sergeant caught you without your weapon with a damn good reason. They’d even check at the door to the PX or the DFAC (chow hall) … and if you weren’t carrying weapon and ammmo, no dinner for you.

Seriously. Oh, and where I was the people doing the checking were Ugandan contractors. Carrying AK-47′s. Seriously. And THEY’RE weapons were actually loaded .., amber, not green, to use the lingo. Maybe red, although I’m assuming they didn’t chamber a round.

For good reason, too: one of those DFACS, in Mosul, was hit by a suicide bomber early in the war. After that, nobody could carry a camera (intell collection device for bad guys), everybody carried a gun.

The point is just this: when EVERYBODY carried, and OPENLY … I’ve never felt so damn safe in my life.

And I think it would work at home. I live in an open carry state, but I wish half the population did it. I truly do.

Professor Blather on February 13, 2014 at 9:38 PM

A friend of mine has an LCP. Damned thing’s barely larger than my .25. I H8 DAO though.

Lanceman on February 13, 2014 at 9:41 PM

Now we are doing our best to disarm the people we trust with government issued rifles and machineguns when we go to the field. Stupid.

SoonerMarine on February 13, 2014 at 6:43 PM

Yes – that’s the other side of the silly.

Mandatory carry overseas. But stateside, hands off. Bizarre logic.

Professor Blather on February 13, 2014 at 9:41 PM

and if you weren’t carrying weapon and ammmo, no dinner for you.

Professor Blather on February 13, 2014 at 9:38 PM

That right there would have had me armed to the teeth.

Sergeant: “Son, I really don’t think that blunderbuss is government issue. But the rest of that stuff seems OK. Bon appetit!”

CurtZHP on February 13, 2014 at 9:42 PM

CurtZHP on February 13, 2014 at 9:31 PM
Haven’t had enough rounds through it for informed opinion. Other than Conceals very easily, great laser sight, very poor front sight which I will replace. Very long trigger pull which eliminates the need for the safety in my opinion. I suspect the long trigger pull will become an asset as one gets used to it. Great gun for small hands, women, and depending on how range time goes good back up gun for Men. I still love my Shield 40 cal. but its too big for my wife to comfortably concealkerry.

ConcealedKerry on February 13, 2014 at 9:43 PM

Actually since guns are sentient, they are carrying US.

Bishop on February 13, 2014 at 5:03 PM

O_O

soundingboard on February 13, 2014 at 9:53 PM

The proper answer to all the questions is none of your business.

RickB on February 13, 2014 at 7:52 PM

Obama: “Damn, they’re onto me!”

KirknBurker on February 13, 2014 at 9:54 PM

You’d be surprised at how many of us have had boating accidents in the last few years.

rogerb on February 13, 2014 at 8:03 PM

Those squirrels sure know how to hide those walnuts all over the place. Hmmmm.

KirknBurker on February 13, 2014 at 9:55 PM

Bishop on February 13, 2014 at 5:03 PM

Mind officially blown!

zacmidnigh on February 13, 2014 at 9:55 PM

CurtZHP on February 13, 2014 at 9:42 PM

Inner child tickled at “bluderbuss” :-D

Newtie and the Beauty on February 13, 2014 at 10:02 PM

Mrs Dent has a Ruger LCP (.380) – also a very long trigger pull. She’s still trying to get used to it – tends to shoot the dirt in front of the target. And it’s a specific problem to the LCP – she’s right on target with other guns.

dentarthurdent on February 13, 2014 at 9:36 PM

I have that problem with my 9mm. I have a great grouping, but about 3 inches below the bulls eye. I think the trigger pull is just too strong for me.

cptacek on February 13, 2014 at 10:14 PM

But what if the guns aren’t organic and have gluten?

SparkPlug on February 13, 2014 at 10:14 PM

The only legal way to eliminate the 2nd amendment is through the amendment process itself.

Wendya on February 13, 2014 at 6:52 PM

Actually, it’ll be by taking a lot of guns out of cold, dead hands.

besser tot als rot on February 13, 2014 at 10:25 PM

Slightly off-topic but think this thread has attracted the right crowd that might be able to offer a bit of advice in dealing with a personal problem of mine.

I’m one of those poor souls who’s dominant hand and dominant eye don’t match up. In my case it’s the right hand but the left eye. I’ve been shown a few tricks (angling the gun slightly when I shoot so I catch it more with my left) and it’s made me an adequate shot but I’m still slightly off, and I hate looking like a homey when I shoot. I was thinking of teaching myself to shoot left-handed instead. I’ve done some amateur archery and my natural inclination there was to do it left-handed before I was shown the proper way and I was overall a better shot left than right. Does anyone have any experience with this sort of thing either themselves or someone they worked with trying to learn to shoot a handgun out of their weaker hand, and if so was it worthwhile?

alchemist19 on February 13, 2014 at 11:02 PM

I was watching Megyn Kelly’s show tonight and she had a segment on a brewing conflict in Connecticut. Seems that that not many people have registered their scary assault weapons as required by a just passed law. Those people are now felons. Upwards of 300,000 of them by estimates. I think that was the high end estimate. They can’t register them now without risking a felony arrest. Pretty hefty episode of civil disobedience. Gonna be tough to corral that many armed criminals.

Oldnuke on February 13, 2014 at 11:25 PM

Oldnuke on February 13, 2014 at 11:25 PM

Dumba$$ there’s a post about it on the other side of the page. Sheesh some people.

Oldnuke on February 13, 2014 at 11:31 PM

IOW the Ninth Circus may be mostly crazy but not crazy enough to not pack heat under the robes in Mexifornia.

viking01 on February 13, 2014 at 11:33 PM

The only way to get a permit there is to show a “unique risk of harm.”

No, the only guaranteed way was to contribute to the County Sheriff’s re-election fund. Contribute enough and you get a shiny Deputy Sheriff’s badge to carry in your wallet AND a CCW permit.

GarandFan on February 14, 2014 at 12:01 AM

Ginger says “hi”.

Armed Texan on February 13, 2014 at 9:27 PM

I liked Mary Anne the best…

dentarthurdent on February 13, 2014 at 9:30 PM

Tuesday was Tina Louise’s 80th Birthday.

Del Dolemonte on February 14, 2014 at 12:38 AM

They can’t register them now without risking a felony arrest. Pretty hefty episode of civil disobedience. Gonna be tough to corral that many armed criminals.

Oldnuke on February 13, 2014 at 11:25 PM

According to the 4th Amendment, then, they can’t be required to register them, because they can’t be required to incriminate themselves.

Awkward.

There Goes the Neighborhood on February 14, 2014 at 1:13 AM

Interesting. The military base where I work just revised and reissued their order on personal weapons. The bottom line is;

- All weapons on base must be registered with the military police.
- There is no open or concealed carry allowed regardless of whether you have a permit.
- If you live on base all weapons must be stored in a locked box that meets their standards. Basically a gun safe.
- If you do not have a gun safe then the weapons must be kept in one of the base armories.
- When you transport your weapons they must be unloaded and placed in the trunk of the car or if your car does not have a trunk then they must be as far away from you in the car as possible.

I worked at this same base in the early 90′s and I used to take guns into the office and was able to go to the range at lunch and do some recreational shooting. As a member of the gun club on base I was also able to purchase a refurbished M1 Garand for $100.

Now we are doing our best to disarm the people we trust with government issued rifles and machineguns when we go to the field. Stupid.

SoonerMarine on February 13, 2014 at 6:43 PM

That’s better than a lot of bases, which allow owning firearms, but require them to always be locked up in the armory.

I think it was Clinton who made that change in policy originally.

There Goes the Neighborhood on February 14, 2014 at 1:15 AM

alchemist19 on February 13, 2014 at 11:02 PM

Unless it’s for concealed carry, a holographic sight may do the trick.

WryTrvllr on February 14, 2014 at 1:54 AM

Alien, you said:

They drove a short distance away, where two witness saw them possibly trying to ditch something in an empty lot

CNN, quoting Dunn’s defense attorney Stolla:

Also, Stolla said, the witnesses cannot account for two of the teens’ whereabouts immediately after the shooting, and two witnesses initially told police the teens appeared to be “stashing” something.

You understand that Stolla cannot testify, he is free to make up sh!t as he goes along, to wage a fight in the court of public opinion. The fact is, Stolla never called any witness to the stand who testified as to your conclusion: that two witnesses saw them “possibly trying to ditch something”.

OK. You were mistaken, not lying. That’s what you get from relying on CNN. ;-)

BigAlSouth on February 14, 2014 at 6:14 AM

alchemist19 on February 13, 2014 at 11:02 PM

Have you tried shooting with both eyes open? I’m dominant right eye/right handed, but I had LASIK ten years ago and found that I had to re-learn to shoot afterwards. My right eye is now my reading eye, and the left is for distance.

I haven’t practiced as much as I should, but I concentrate in the range of 5 – 7 yards and use body-mass targets rather than the small bulls. I still locate the target with my dominant right eye but the clearer image from my left helps define it. A bit different from your situation, but might be worth a try.

Alien on February 14, 2014 at 6:22 AM

Memo to the Court’s conservatives: Grant cert ASAP, please, before Obama gets another appointment.

Who needs a judicial appointment when you have a pen and a phone?

Brock Robamney on February 14, 2014 at 7:28 AM

Allah: You can ban open carry or you can ban concealed carry but you can’t ban carry entirely without completely depriving people of their right to “bear.”

Great point. Conversely, what will be the implications in states where a city has a more restrictive firearms policy than the state does? This would seem to force uniformity on entire states.

It seems a dramatic loss for Bloomberg’s gun control lobby.

Toocon on February 14, 2014 at 7:47 AM

Don’t ever register a weapon with the State. The State is not your friend. The State is not your kindly uncle. The State is never to be trusted. Never.

claudius on February 14, 2014 at 9:27 AM

I object to there being a permit required for the 2nd Amendment.

You don’t need one for the FIRST AMENDMENT…

ConstantineXI on February 13, 2014 at 7:38 PM

In a lot of places you do need a permit and then there are those free speech zones in a lot of places.

Lucy43 on February 14, 2014 at 9:28 AM

Amazing. The Ninth Circuit actually rules in favor of what is generally a conservative position, and they still manage to be wrong in my eyes.

Because I don’t believe in the fantasy of the “incorporation doctrine” which was created out of whole cloth by the Supreme Court, much as the right to abortion was created out of whole cloth.

The second amendment applies to the federal government, not to the states. And, no, the fourteenth amendment did not change that. Saying that you are entitled to equal protection under the law does not suddenly mean that a whole bunch of laws that never applied to you now suddenly do.

If people want to fight against anti-gun legislation, they need to look to their state constitutions, virtually all of which have protections similar to our federal Constitution, and fight that battle in state courts. Federal courts, using the federal Constitution, are not the proper venue.

Shump on February 14, 2014 at 10:12 AM

The second amendment applies to the federal government, not to the states. And, no, the fourteenth amendment did not change that. Saying that you are entitled to equal protection under the law does not suddenly mean that a whole bunch of laws that never applied to you now suddenly do.

If people want to fight against anti-gun legislation, they need to look to their state constitutions, virtually all of which have protections similar to our federal Constitution, and fight that battle in state courts. Federal courts, using the federal Constitution, are not the proper venue.

Shump on February 14, 2014 at 10:12 AM

I don’t agree with that at all.
The Constitution and the Amendments apply to the entire country. States cannot take away our rights specified there any more than the federal can (or is supposed to – since they already are).
If the 2nd Amendment ONLY applies to the federal government, then the same goes for the 1st, 3rd, 4th, etc. And that’s just not true.
If your point was valid we wouldn’t have the US Supreme Court over-ruling state laws as unconstitutional – and that happens all the time.

Now, if you want to talk about the states putting in laws that nullify federal laws because they are unconstitutional – citing the 10th Amendment as justification – that’s a whole different ball game, and I’m all in favor of that.

dentarthurdent on February 14, 2014 at 11:00 AM

I don’t agree with that at all.
The Constitution and the Amendments apply to the entire country. States cannot take away our rights specified there any more than the federal can (or is supposed to – since they already are).
If the 2nd Amendment ONLY applies to the federal government, then the same goes for the 1st, 3rd, 4th, etc. And that’s just not true.
If your point was valid we wouldn’t have the US Supreme Court over-ruling state laws as unconstitutional – and that happens all the time.

Now, if you want to talk about the states putting in laws that nullify federal laws because they are unconstitutional – citing the 10th Amendment as justification – that’s a whole different ball game, and I’m all in favor of that.

dentarthurdent on February 14, 2014 at 11:00 AM

From the founding of the country until 1925, it was always held that the Bill of Rights applied solely to the federal government. You can see this in the plain text. The first amendment itself says “Congress shall make no law.” Nowhere are state governments even referenced, except in the 10th amendment’s statement of what powers are reserved to the states. The Supreme Court even explicitly said that the Bill of Rights does not apply to the states in the 1833 case Barron v. Baltimore.

In the 1920′s, around the time most of the other progressive nonsense began to happen in our nation, the Supreme Court began inventing the idea that because of the 14th amendment’s equal protection clause, that the amendment “incorporated” most provisions of the Bill of Rights, making them enforceable against the states. That’s the first time anyone could have a state law thrown out on the basis of the federal Constitution. Before that, it simply did not apply. The first, the third, all those you mention? They applied to the federal government only.

If you want further proof of that, look to the state constitutions. Virtually every single state constitution has a set of provisions similar to the Bill of Rights, offering explicit protections for free speech, for the right to bear arms, etc. If all of those rights were already protected, at the state level, by the federal Constitution, what need would there be for them to be listed fifty additional times in fifty additional state constitutions? Those provisions are in the state constitutions because states understood the role of the Bill of Rights, its lack of application to the states, and the need to protect those rights at the state level.

Now, you’re correct that state laws are thrown out all the time by the Supreme Court on the basis of the federal Constitution. This is because they invented, out of whole cloth, the “incorporation doctrine.” But this is the same court that argues the Constitution has in it somewhere an inalienable right to kill your baby. The Supreme Court is not infallible, it is not all-knowing, and it is wrong on many things, including the incorporation doctrine.

All that being said, don’t misinterpret me. I certainly don’t believe in gun control. But I do believe in separation of powers and responsibilities between the federal and state governments, with as little responsibility falling on the federal government as possible. Therefore, I believe these matters should be argued on the basis of state constitutions, not the federal Constitution.

Shump on February 14, 2014 at 12:20 PM

Oops. I guess I put it in the wrong thread.

Shump on February 14, 2014 at 12:20 PM

I still disagree with that.
The 1st amendment is the only one that specifically mentions Congress – and that is in terms of Congress not being allowed to establish a state religion, or restrict free speech, assembly, and petition. All of the other amendments detail specific stand-alone rights separate from the 1st and talk in terms of “the people” – as in the people of the entire country have these rights. Who are “the people” if not the people who live in the various states? So “the people”, in any and therefore every state, have these inherent rights.

The 2nd Amendment doesn’t say anything about Congress or states. It says the “right of the people shall not be infringed.” – which I take, as have the courts, as meaning neither federal nor state can infringe on that right.

In writing the Constitution and the Amendments, they also appeared to be very specific in their uses of the terms “United States”, “Congress”, “the states”, and “the people”.
Amendments 9 and 10 are both relevant.

Amendment 9 – Construction of Constitution.
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
Amendment 10 – Powers of the States and People.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.
It was all about resticting government powers, both federal and state, over the people. “The people” have the most power – or at least should.

And just because the states have also written these rights into their constitutions, does not mean they didn’t already apply across the board to everyone. As if our government(s) have never written duplicative or overlapping laws…

dentarthurdent on February 14, 2014 at 2:48 PM

Only people who should own guns in a civilized modern society are cops and soldiers.

this is not the wild wild west, no citizen NEEDS a gun to live.

nonpartisan on February 12, 2014 at 10:10 PM

Tell that to my sister who was attacked by her husband with a butcher knife a few days before Christmas. The only thing that saved her at the time was their kids forming a defense around their mother and taking the knife away from their father. She had a protective order against him that he violated multiple times. The police were absent.

Oh, and when he was finally arrested and their SUV impounded, those same police you trust implicitly released their SUV to my brother-in-law’s GIRLFRIEND (who regardless to say did not have her name on the vehicle title!) When she tried to press charges against the officer who released her vehicle to someone not listed on the title, the police refused.

These same police will only give her a few hours notice before he is finally released, and will NOT stay in the vicinity of her home after he is released.

I can only say that you are the most ignorant stupid person I have ever met. And I don’t care that I’m late to the conversation, I still needed to say that.

dominigan on February 15, 2014 at 3:34 PM

I object to there being a permit required for the 2nd Amendment.

You don’t need one for the FIRST AMENDMENT…

ConstantineXI on February 13, 2014 at 7:38 PM

Good point.
Maybe the next President will close the New York Times, by fiat, and tell them that they didn’t present a clear enough need to exercise their First Amendment “right”.

BTW: is it a “right”, if you have to get Government permission to do it?

ReggieA on February 15, 2014 at 4:54 PM

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