Powers: I’m getting tired of defending ObamaCare, too

posted at 12:01 pm on February 12, 2014 by Ed Morrissey

The obvious question, then, is … why continue? Both Kirsten Powers and Ron Fournier have spent the last day offering cris des coeurs over the incompetence of the White House, as the National Journal columnist did yesterday and Powers did last night on Fox News Special Report (via RCP and Truth Revolt):

KIRSTEN POWERS: Well, I think his explanation is probably the true explanation, that they need to do this, but at the same time, it’s now gotten to the point where it seems like there’s an exemption made for pretty much everybody except for individuals. A lot of people who have really been screwed over by the law, you know, who are left without insurance or with extremely expensive insurance. So, I think that Ron Fournier of The National Journal wrote something that ran today about –

BRET BAIER: This was after he expressed himself last night on the panel.

POWERS: The headline is why I’m getting tired of defending Obamacare. And I’m going to say amen, brother, because it’s exactly how I feel. People who have supported the law, who support universal health care, are constantly put in the position of having to defend this president, who has really incompetently put this together, rolled it out, and that’s why he has to do this. It’s why he has to keep doing this, because it’s not working.

The objection from both assumes that this project had a hope of succeeding in the first place. Let’s not forget that ObamaCare passed nearly four years ago, and HHS had 42 months of lead time until its rollout date. Four months after that, the White House keeps shifting deadlines, plainly to avoid the political consequences of its utter failure and ineptitude. How long is long enough to climb off the bandwagon?

Fournier’s argument on that question rests on a supposed lack of alternatives:

I want the ACA to work because the GOP has not offered a serious alternative that can pass Congress.

That, however, is a circular argument — because a Congress controlled by Democrats in one chamber will not pass any kind of replacement for ObamaCare, no matter how “serious” or workable it might be.  Harry Reid wouldn’t even bring it onto the agenda, let alone schedule a floor vote, and Democrats would close ranks with the White House even if he did. Fournier’s argument boils down to the acceptance that Democrats won’t change their minds, so we may as well keep cheering on the failure, and hope that the incompetents that produced it over four years can fix it in six months. That’s absurd, but it’s the final fig leaf for less-partisan supporters of ObamaCare.

Fournier’s colleague Sam Baker argues that Obama’s doing most of the damage to his law now, not Republicans:

Republicans have done everything they can think of to strike down Obamacare, but they’ve still only managed to come in second place. For all the House votes to repeal, defund, or weaken Obamacare, some of the most significant setbacks for the law have come from the administration itself.

Monday’s delay in the law’s employer mandate was just the latest in a series of self-inflicted wounds, just like the HealthCare.gov launch and delays in several programs that simply weren’t ready for prime time.

To be clear, the self-inflicted wounds haven’t been fatal. Obamacare is moving forward—and the doomsayers’ prophecies have fallen flat: People are signing up, premiums are lower than expected, and the law’s basic survival is assured. It gets stronger every month as more people pour into new insurance marketplaces in each state.

But the law does have a specific vision of the future of health insurance. And to hit that vision, it relies on a delicate balance of popular carrots—think coverage for those with preexisting conditions—and unpopular sticks, such as the ever-controversial individual mandate. And the administration keeps chipping away at unpopular parts—sometimes directly, and sometimes by handing Republicans a political weapon.

By the way, who’s going to fix the website, which defenders have mostly cited as the main obstacle on the path to Nirvana? The names have changed, but the faces look awfully familiar:

After denigrating the work of CGI and replacing it as the largest contractor on the federal health care website, the Obama administration is negotiating with the company to extend its work on the project for a few months.

And the new prime contractor, Accenture, is trying to recruit and hire CGI employees to work under its supervision.

I’m sure that will work out well…


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bon appetit

Electrongod on February 12, 2014 at 12:03 PM

POWERS: The headline is why I’m getting tired of defending Obamacare. And I’m going to say amen, brother, because it’s exactly how I feel.

Then WHY on earth do you continue to do so?
If you know it’s a piece of shiite put together by incompetents, WHY do you keep defending it?

(obviously rhetorical questions – the messiah said so…)

dentarthurdent on February 12, 2014 at 12:04 PM

kristie, baby, he’s your man!

crash72 on February 12, 2014 at 12:04 PM

Yah, leftists always ignore everything THEY don’t think is “serious”, meanwhile the serious scheme of DeathCare is crumbling like the British at Isandlwana.

Bishop on February 12, 2014 at 12:05 PM

Then don’t!

NavyMustang on February 12, 2014 at 12:05 PM

This vapid vixen is virtual vaporware.

Jeffster on February 12, 2014 at 12:06 PM

Embrace the suck…

PatriotRider on February 12, 2014 at 12:06 PM

For the sake of accuracy, let’s all remember that Fournier’s last line of his piece was that it was “almost indefensible.”

Unfortunately, the president and his team are making their good intentions almost indefensible.

Almost.

aquaviva on February 12, 2014 at 12:07 PM

But after almost two decades, she’s still not tired of defending Bill Clinton.

Is she a racist, or what?

notropis on February 12, 2014 at 12:09 PM

She is right.

Obamacare is looking like a disaster, I’m not here to defend it but with every program it takes time work. (social security roll out being a good example)

Single payer is the only answer to the healthcare issues in this country.

Every other “fix” is just a bandage denying the inevitable.

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:10 PM

Okay, let’s start with the obvious here. How in the hell did you find an unattractive picture of KP to feature on the home page?

The problem for KP and the few liberals with any sort of integrity is that they know the administration’s claims are false. First it was the website glitches that were preventing enrollments- and it turned out that some state exchanges were even worse. Then it was how much cheaper health insurance was- then it turned out just how much of that was subsidies. Then it was how many people were helped by Obamacare- then it turned out that more have been harmed than helped.

You can only defend lie-after-lie for so long!

Happy Nomad on February 12, 2014 at 12:13 PM

liberalnorules

FIFY

And, single payer makes Obamacare problems look like a pleasant day in the park.

22044 on February 12, 2014 at 12:13 PM

Single payer is the only answer to the healthcare issues in this country.

Every other “fix” is just a bandage denying the inevitable.

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:10 PM

How does it “work”? Give some examples of how it would “work”. How will Doctors be paid? How will services be rendered at what availability?

oldroy on February 12, 2014 at 12:15 PM

Single payer is the only answer to the healthcare issues in this country.

Every other “fix” is just a bandage denying the inevitable.

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:10 PM

Rigghhhttt… The government is doing such a good job of implementing ObamaCare that they are CERTAIN to be able to make single payer work MUCH better.

You libs are an incredibly dumb bunch.

climbnjump on February 12, 2014 at 12:15 PM

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:10 PM

Yeah cause like medicaid is like so super duper. I have an idea, why don’t you try out using medicaid and then get back to us.

BeachBum on February 12, 2014 at 12:17 PM

Why are journalists defending anything?
Aren’t they supposed to be objective, report the facts and comment on the real consequences based on facts?
Their job is not to be the propaganda machine for any group or political party.

albill on February 12, 2014 at 12:17 PM

POWERS: The headline is why I’m getting tired of defending Obamacare. And I’m going to say amen, brother, because it’s exactly how I feel. People who have supported the law, who support universal health care, are constantly put in the position of having to defend this president, who has really incompetently put this together, rolled it out, and that’s why he has to do this. It’s why he has to keep doing this, because it’s not working.

Poor Kirsten must be very conflicted right now–her Democrat heart wants to love Obama and the Democrats come what may, but her brain keeps telling her that Ted Cruz was right last October.

Exit question: Will she go down with the Obamacare ship, or will she endorse Republican candidates for Senate?

Steve Z on February 12, 2014 at 12:18 PM

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:10 PM

Brilliant…let’s take a massive expansion of government power and control that has become an EpicClusterFarkNado because of the incompetence, fecklessness, and inefficiency of big government…and solve it by expanding government power and control even further.

Doing the same thing again and again while expecting different results IS the definition of insanity.

Athos on February 12, 2014 at 12:18 PM

The FREE MARKET Single payer is the only answer to the healthcare issues in this country.

PatriotRider on February 12, 2014 at 12:18 PM

She’s cute, but terminally stupid.

PrettyMooch on February 12, 2014 at 12:19 PM

Single payer is the only answer to the healthcare issues in this country.

Every other “fix” is just a bandage denying the inevitable.

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:10 PM

By the way, take a look at this and if you have ANY critical thinking skills left (highly unlikely) you might see yourself.

climbnjump on February 12, 2014 at 12:20 PM

She is right.

Obamacare is looking like a disaster, I’m not here to defend it but with every program it takes time work. (social security roll out being a good example)

Single payer is the only answer to the healthcare issues in this country.

Every other “fix” is just a bandage denying the inevitable.

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:10 PM

Pssst… Social Security doesn’t work either… it’s going bankrupt… and it’s had 79 years to get fixed. Talk about incompetence…

dominigan on February 12, 2014 at 12:20 PM

And the new prime contractor, Accenture, is trying to recruit and hire CGI employees to work under its supervision.

I recall saying this would happen. How many from Belarus?

dogsoldier on February 12, 2014 at 12:21 PM

Powers is one of the dumbest scumhags on TV, just about every day.

Meh, see this.

Schadenfreude on February 12, 2014 at 12:21 PM

The obvious question, then, is … why continue? – Ed Morrisey

Absolutely, I agree with Ed, why should you continue Kristen? Krauthammer had his conversion, why not you?

SC.Charlie on February 12, 2014 at 12:22 PM

Exit question: Will she go down with the Obamacare ship, or will she endorse Republican candidates for Senate?

Steve Z on February 12, 2014 at 12:18 PM

Neither.

I suspect that as the electoral picture of this November clarifies as we get closer, more and more progressives will look towards tossing Obama, Sebelius, and others of the Administration under the bus over the EpicClusterFarkNado’s implementation in an effort to restore credibility to the progressive vision and agenda.

This is what usually happens when the reality of that vision and agenda becomes apparent – in order to try to save the credibility of the vision, you point to the implementation as being the problem, not the vision.

Athos on February 12, 2014 at 12:23 PM

She is right.

Obamacare is looking like a disaster, I’m not here to defend it but with every program it takes time work. (social security roll out being a good example)

Single payer is the only answer to the healthcare issues in this country.

Every other “fix” is just a bandage denying the inevitable.

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:10 PM

Could you cite some “examples” of the disastrous SS roll-out? And could you point us to any evidence that SS has actually been beneficial? And could you please explain why increasing the command structure of a system that is failing, because it is a command structure, will somehow fix it?

NotCoach on February 12, 2014 at 12:23 PM

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:10 PM

So when the government totally screws up have them do even more?

Are you familiar with Albert Einstein’s definition of insanity?

Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

Does your support of national socialist healthcare finally unmask the left as socialist?

[That is, if you go with that arbitrary standard dodge in denying you’re a socialist?]

DinaRehn on February 12, 2014 at 12:23 PM

Obamacare is moving forward—and the doomsayers’ prophecies have fallen flat: People are signing up, premiums are lower than expected, and the law’s basic survival is assured. It gets stronger every month as more people pour into new insurance marketplaces in each state.

Stop lying. There are still millions more who have lost insurance than have signed up. Premiums are high, except for the plans where the deductibles are outrageous. And it is designed to fail, in order to usher in single payer.

And people are not able to keep their plans or their doctors.

rbj on February 12, 2014 at 12:24 PM

But not tired of defending Killary Klinton, you ditz.

Jeddite on February 12, 2014 at 12:27 PM

Powers is one of the dumbest scumhags on TV, just about every day.

Meh, see this. – Schadenfreude on February 12, 2014 at 12:21 PM

Obviously, she has a long way to come before she is like Krauthammer.

SC.Charlie on February 12, 2014 at 12:27 PM

Single payer is the only answer to the healthcare issues in this country.

Every other “fix” is just a bandage denying the inevitable.

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:10 PM

So you want the VA for everybody. Great idea there… (yeah, right).

How about an HSA account for everyone, uncapped. Allow anyone to put money into it… individuals, family members, charity organizations, employers and even government… allow it to be used to purchase plans and pay premiums. Allow plans to cross state lines… implement tort reform with caps and loser-pays… strike down law requiring hospitals to minister to those who can’t pay…

Voila… no dependence on employers, no government-control, less paperwork (causing costs to drop since HSA is immediate cash payment not claims), immediate drop in pre-existing condition drops (since you could take it from employer to employer), system is already in place, people get to purchase plans they need instead of what others say… easy, peezy.

No bandaid… real change… puts all the control back with the person making the decisions, and providers would compete for you since payment via the card would be immediate cash instead of claims. And offers a long-term way out of controlling Medicare.

dominigan on February 12, 2014 at 12:29 PM

The obvious question, then, is … why continue? – Ed Morrisey

I referenced this in another post above, but it applies here as well.

People hate being wrong and will deny that they are wrong even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

climbnjump on February 12, 2014 at 12:29 PM

Single payer is the only answer to the healthcare issues in this country.

Every other “fix” is just a bandage denying the inevitable.

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:10 PM

The healthcare system wasn’t broken in the first place, snowflake.

Perhaps a few tweaks were needed in certain areas but now that your filthy party and it’s rat-eared leader have caused harm to more Americans than have benefited under Obamacare….. The solution isn’t putting more trust into government or lazy incompetent animals like Obama.

Happy Nomad on February 12, 2014 at 12:29 PM

Poor Kirsten must be very conflicted right now–her Democrat heart wants to love Obama and the Democrats come what may, but her brain keeps telling her that Ted Cruz was right last October.

Exit question: Will she go down with the Obamacare ship, or will she endorse Republican candidates for Senate?

Steve Z on February 12, 2014 at 12:18 PM

Neither. She is only admitting that Obama is too incompetent to make it work. Her idea of a fix is let Shrillary have another whack at it.

Southernblogger on February 12, 2014 at 12:29 PM

Obviously, she has a long way to come before she is like Krauthammer.

SC.Charlie on February 12, 2014 at 12:27 PM

Krauthammer’s a moron.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on February 12, 2014 at 12:31 PM

On the other hand dear, not as tired of it as we are.

Boring.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on February 12, 2014 at 12:31 PM

Oh… and insurance at that point becomes simple stop-gap insurance for serious health issues. You pick the cost point it kicks in. Everything under it is deductible you pay with HSA.

Simple.

dominigan on February 12, 2014 at 12:31 PM

We should all love what is happening to Obamacare. The experiment is showing even the most devoted liberals that big government solutions simply cannot work. Many will embrace the “we just need to tweak it” position but there are some that could be fully converted away from liberalism. I hope it happens.

ojfltx on February 12, 2014 at 12:32 PM

How does it “work”? Give some examples of how it would “work”. How will Doctors be paid? How will services be rendered at what availability?

oldroy on February 12, 2014 at 12:15 PM

it works fine in most European states and guess what?

They are more healthier, fitter and live longer than your average American.

Surely it can’t be that bad?

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:32 PM

To be clear, the self-inflicted wounds haven’t been fatal. Obamacare is moving forward—and the doomsayers’ prophecies have fallen flat: People are signing up, premiums are lower than expected, and the law’s basic survival is assured. It gets stronger every month as more people pour into new insurance marketplaces in each state.

Bwahahahahahahahahaha OMG please.

People aren’t signing up. The law hasn’t made a dent in the number of uninsured.

Premiums are certainly not lower than expected. Except for those who get subsidies, but their premiums really aren’t low either. They’re just having someone else pay for part of them.

And of course Baker ignores all of the other problems conservatives predicted, like narrow provider networks and abuse of risk corridors.

But hey, keep throwing lipstick on that pig. Maybe it’ll save one or two Dem seats in November if you can convince a few morons that this is an awesome law!!

PetecminMd on February 12, 2014 at 12:32 PM

It would be cheaper if we took up a collection, buy a boat or two and all the loons could take a three day trip down to Commie Cuba and get some Goverment Health Care down there, hell it would be cheaper in the long run and the possibility some of the commies would stay down in loonvillage for good.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on February 12, 2014 at 12:32 PM

Uhm, premiums are lower than expected by who exactly? Certainly not the people who are actually having to pay them. And if they are lower than expected, that is only because of higher deductibles and smaller provider networks. Apparently, to these people, this is what success looks like. I hope the American people don’t buy into this nonsense.

drewwerd on February 12, 2014 at 12:33 PM

it works fine in most European states and guess what?

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:32 PM

LOL. That’s only because the US health care industry paid for all the R+D and then the Eurotrash drafted off of our system, which was the best in the world. Who is the US going to draft off of? Cuba?

You leftists are just dumb as rocks. It’s no surprise that you worship a third world, 84 IQ Dog-Eater with the mathematical sophistication of a slow 8th grader. Go pray to your Nobel Savage. Do it in Jakarta, where you all belong with your retarded Sukarno clone.

Friggin America-hating sacksOS.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on February 12, 2014 at 12:35 PM

Obamacare is moving forward—and the doomsayers’ prophecies have fallen flat: People are signing up, premiums are lower than expected, and the law’s basic survival is assured. It gets stronger every month as more people pour into new insurance marketplaces in each state.

Sure thing. Check out this:

ObamaCare Enrollment Slows To Crawl, State Data Show

Oh yeah, and then there’s this:

Are State Exchanges Going Bankrupt?

Yeah, it’s going swimmingly all right.

climbnjump on February 12, 2014 at 12:35 PM

Best thing to do is go on offense and get Mark Levin and his Landmark Legal Foundation to sue the Adm. in Federal D.C. court and demand they fully impliment The Affordable Health Care Act as written (never read) 100% and do so by April 1, 2014.

Make them eat it raw.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on February 12, 2014 at 12:36 PM

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:32 PM

So when the government totally screws up you would have them do even more?

Are you familiar with Albert Einstein’s definition of insanity?

DinaRehn on February 12, 2014 at 12:37 PM

LOL. That’s only because the US health care industry paid for all the R+D and then the Eurotrash drafted off of our system, which was the best in the world. Who is the US going to draft off of? Cuba?

You leftists are just dumb as rocks. It’s no surprise that you worship a third world, 84 IQ Dog-Eater with the mathematical sophistication of a slow 8th grader. Go pray to your Nobel Savage. Do it in Jakarta, where you all belong with your retarded Sukarno clone.

Friggin America-hating sacksOS.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on February 12, 2014 at 12:35 PM

How come the average European is more healthier than your average American if our system is working fine like you claim?

Working fine for only a few people who can afford it, doesn’t mean it works fine for everyone.

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:38 PM

Surely it can’t be that bad?

I suppose the ascendency of Queen Hillary will eventually help your dreams come true.

Vera71 on February 12, 2014 at 12:39 PM

Are you familiar with Albert Einstein’s definition of insanity?

DinaRehn on February 12, 2014 at 12:37 PM

liberalrules is more intimate with Benito Mussolini’s definition of good
government:

“All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.”

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on February 12, 2014 at 12:39 PM

DeathCare in Sweden is going so well that the private insurance market is exploding:

“It’s quicker to get a colleague back to work if you have an operation in two weeks’ time rather than having to wait for a year,” privately insured Anna Norlander told Sveriges Radio on Friday. “It’s terrible that I, as a young person, don’t feel I can trust the health care system to take care of me.”

In a separate article about Sweden’s shrinking welfare state, The Local also noted that “visitors are sometimes surprised to learn about year-long waiting times for cancer patients.”

“You have cancer. Come back in a year.”

Yay for government!

Bishop on February 12, 2014 at 12:39 PM

How come the average European is more healthier than your average American if our system is working fine like you claim?

Working fine for only a few people who can afford it, doesn’t mean it works fine for everyone.

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:38 PM

More healthier? I see you’ve been indoctrinated, not educated.

rbj on February 12, 2014 at 12:41 PM

Working fine for only a few people who can afford it, doesn’t mean it works fine for everyone.

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:38 PM

“only a few” and “everyone”. Gotcha, douchebag.

Isn’t it time for your kindergarten nap?

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on February 12, 2014 at 12:41 PM

it works fine in most European states and guess what?

They are more healthier, fitter and live longer than your average American.

Surely it can’t be that bad?

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:32 PM

Surely you can’t be this ignorant? Maybe ‘more healthier’ should be a clue to us all…

Europeans don’t live longer. Reach the age of 30 in the US and you’ll outlive everyone else in the world. Healthcare isn’t the problem.

NotCoach on February 12, 2014 at 12:41 PM

People who have supported the law, who support universal health care, are constantly put in the position of having to defend this president,

For one, Kristen, Obamacare isn’t universal health care. It isn’t even universal health insurance. Liberals love to conflate health care and health insurance, but they are not the same.

For two, I thought you were a journalist. Shouldn’t you and Ron Fournier at least be trying to be neutral in your reporting and analysis? Fournier worked for the AP for years in a supposedly “straight” reporting job and now he just claims to be a columnist with no pretense to neutrality. I’m sure he was just super neutral at AP, too.

Do your job and you won’t have to defend the indefensible.

Missy on February 12, 2014 at 12:41 PM

liberalrules

I guess you haven’t figured out that central planned health care doesn’t work for bigger populations.
Heck, it has problems in the nations that use it. Richer citizens buy supplemental insurance or care in addition to the government benny.
And then they get accused of buying “privilege”.

22044 on February 12, 2014 at 12:41 PM

it works fine in most European states and guess what?

They are more healthier, fitter and live longer than your average American.

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:32 PM

If you could be so kind, please post an excerpt from a credible reference source that bolsters this assertion of yours forthwith, lest it be considered to be a total lie.

Thanks in advance.

[Expect this question to be repeated until you can back up those all too often repeated talking points from the national socialist left]

DinaRehn on February 12, 2014 at 12:42 PM

it works fine in most European states and guess what?

They are more healthier, fitter and live longer than your average American.

Surely it can’t be that bad?

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:32 PM

Um, you haven’t read how all the countries in Europe are going bankrupt….France trying to impose 75% tax…economies in perpetual stagnation because of big gov. Healthcare being part of it. Go away liberaldrools. My “I respect your opinion” went bye bye long ago. I just know you’re phucking idiots now.

msupertas on February 12, 2014 at 12:42 PM

it works fine in most European states and guess what?
They are more healthier, fitter and live longer than your average American.
Surely it can’t be that bad?

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:32 PM

Like Great Britain – ya just wonderful system there, where people die waiting for simple procedures, and the Brits are already trying to move away from it. How about Canada – where people who really need a critcal surgery come to the US to get it – including the heads of their government.
Other countries? Define which ones you’re talking about. They’re not all single-payer.

dentarthurdent on February 12, 2014 at 12:44 PM

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:38 PM

Once again, be a good chap and please post an excerpt from a credible reference source that bolsters this assertion of yours forthwith, lest it be considered to be a total lie.

Thanks in advance.

[And, Expect this question to be repeated until you can back up those all too often repeated talking points from the national socialist left]

DinaRehn on February 12, 2014 at 12:44 PM

I know exactly how she feels. I’m getting tired of defending the Republicans’ amnesty plans. Oh, that’s right; I don’t have to defend them. I forgot for a moment that I’m an independent, thinking human being, not a robotic mouthpiece for a political party.

SacredFire on February 12, 2014 at 12:45 PM

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on February 12, 2014 at 12:35 PM

Booya!

msupertas on February 12, 2014 at 12:45 PM

Kristen Powers is a very attractive woman, exceptionally attractive by leftard standards. And she’s built.

And that’s all I can say for her.

MisterElephant on February 12, 2014 at 12:45 PM

Miss Powers you need a “…I have come here to bury Caesar, not to praise him…” moment.

That is what you need to do Miss Powers.

We have not even began to fight on this issue Miss Powers, we have not even “began” to fight.

Knives78 on February 12, 2014 at 12:46 PM

it works fine in most European states and guess what?

They are more healthier, fitter and live longer than your average American.

Surely it can’t be that bad?

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:32 PM

Details of how it would work in America please. As in, how would HHS set up to administrate it? How do Doctors get paid? How do you get care?

You folks always point to failures in Europe as successes. Do you even read?

oldroy on February 12, 2014 at 12:46 PM

Working fine for only a few people who can afford it, doesn’t mean it works fine for everyone.

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:38 PM

Uh, before ObamaCare 85% of people were happy with their health insurance and their health care. That’s not “working for only a few people” – it’s working for most people.

And you lefties never argue this subject honestly.

Want single payer? Just like Europe?

Ok, then explain that means people will experience a lower quality of healthcare and greatly increased wait times (hope you don’t die while waiting for over a year for your treatment).

And explain to the American people that – just like Europe – we’ll need to heavily tax the middle class in order to pay for it.

You also need to explain how a centralized government is going to manage the healthcare of 310+ million people when European governments have great difficulty managing health care systems 1/5 the size.

Good luck with that.

gwelf on February 12, 2014 at 12:46 PM

Oh, yeah–Where are all the trolls? Guess they’ve scurried away like the cockroaches they are.

MisterElephant on February 12, 2014 at 12:46 PM

And that’s all I can say for her.

MisterElephant on February 12, 2014 at 12:45 PM

She was Weiner’s squeeze for a while. What does that say?

msupertas on February 12, 2014 at 12:47 PM

Are you familiar with Albert Einstein’s definition of insanity?

DinaRehn on February 12, 2014 at 12:37 PM

liberalrules is more intimate with Benito Mussolini’s definition of good
government:

“All within the state, nothing outside the state, nothing against the state.”

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on February 12, 2014 at 12:39 PM

Or uncle Jo Stalin’s

“You can’t make an omelet without breaking a few eggs.”

DinaRehn on February 12, 2014 at 12:47 PM

Like Great Britain – ya just wonderful system there, where people die waiting for simple procedures, and the Brits are already trying to move away from it.

dentarthurdent on February 12, 2014 at 12:44 PM

But the NHS was the star of the London Olympics!! You don’t get nurses dancing on beds in a stadium in the US. That just proves how broken our health insurance/health care system was!

The leftists vow to work over the American health care system until there is a Broadway musical about how wondrous it is … regardless of whether people are starved to death in their hospital beds because the state nurses are annoyed by them …

Liverpool Care Pathway or BUST!!!

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on February 12, 2014 at 12:49 PM

How come the average European is more healthier than your average American if our system is working fine like you claim?

Working fine for only a few people who can afford it, doesn’t mean it works fine for everyone.

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:38 PM

ROFL

The only way to measure that in regards to a healthcare system is to compare point of intervention, how long does a person live after having interaction with the system.

For example cancer, the 5 year survival rate is longer by over 6% than the next closest Euro nation.

And the U.S. has 3 different systems: private, medicaid, and medicare. Try comparing the stats just between the M’s here and the DeathCare systems in Europe, see what you find.

Bishop on February 12, 2014 at 12:49 PM

If you could be so kind, please post an excerpt from a credible reference source that bolsters this assertion of yours forthwith, lest it be considered to be a total lie.

Thanks in advance.

[Expect this question to be repeated until you can back up those all too often repeated talking points from the national socialist left]

DinaRehn on February 12, 2014 at 12:42 PM

From the LA times

Europe healthier than U.S.
Older Americans have higher rates of serious diseases than aging Europeans, a study says.

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/oct/02/business/fi-healthspend2

From Bloomberg
Americans Die Younger Than Europeans.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-11/americans-die-younger-than-europeans-they-don-t-need-to-.html

What’s shocking is that fact that you need a study to validate common knowledge that Europeans on the average are more healthier and live longer than Americans.

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:49 PM

Apparently the blond powers who claims she found Christ must have meant the messiah in the white house…..I will second what has earlier been stated>>>>Embrace the suck kirsten, you own it

crosshugger on February 12, 2014 at 12:49 PM

What’s shocking is that fact that you need a study to validate common knowledge that Europeans on the average are more healthier and live longer than Americans.

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:49 PM

What’s not shocking is you get your news from two sources that I wouldn’t let birds shit on. Now I know why you’re a phucking moron.

msupertas on February 12, 2014 at 12:50 PM

Who knew the Zombie Apocalypse would look like this? Mindless following of brain dead leaders…devoid of thought. Instead of mumbling “Braaaaiins” they mumble retarded justifications for every retarded policy.

DejectedHead on February 12, 2014 at 12:51 PM

Please trolls and Democrat candidates. If you are going to site the need to move to single payer, please show us how it would work in America. Show us the successes of single payer worldwide – site specific examples, and be prepared to defend yourself.

oldroy on February 12, 2014 at 12:51 PM

I have friend who is a liberal who told me she thought Cuba has a wonderful health care system. I never know what to say to these people. They have to be learning disabled. I told her Cuba is a third world communist dictatorship. That’s all you need to know.

crankyoldlady on February 12, 2014 at 12:53 PM

From the LA times

Europe healthier than U.S.
Older Americans have higher rates of serious diseases than aging Europeans, a study says.

http://articles.latimes.com/2007/oct/02/business/fi-healthspend2

From Bloomberg
Americans Die Younger Than Europeans.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2013-07-11/americans-die-younger-than-europeans-they-don-t-need-to-.html

What’s shocking is that fact that you need a study to validate common knowledge that Europeans on the average are more healthier and live longer than Americans.

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:49 PM

What’s shocking is that you’re conflating two very different things.

Want to argue that on average Europeans are by habit or culture or whatever are healthier than the average American?

That’s a completely different subject than single payer.

Unless you’re suggesting that single payer in America will do something it doesn’t do in Europe and enforce a healthy lifestyle on it’s citizens.

gwelf on February 12, 2014 at 12:53 PM

What’s shocking is that fact that you need a study to validate common knowledge that Europeans on the average are more healthier and live longer than Americans.

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:49 PM

But what’s MOST shocking is that neither of the studies you dredged up have anything to do with medical care; they both deal with how our lifestyle(s) and diets suck.

But nice try, cupcake.

bigmacdaddy on February 12, 2014 at 12:54 PM

How come the average European is more healthier than your average American if our system is working fine like you claim?
liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:38 PM

IF that were true, and I don’t agree that it is, it has nothing to do with the healthcare system.
The unhealthy part of the US population is bcause of the people who stuff their faces too much. If you want to say European are “more healthier” – go compare obesity rates to get your answer – and that’s NOT the healthcare system (i.e. medicine, doctors, hospitals, etc).

dentarthurdent on February 12, 2014 at 12:54 PM

I forget the steps to acceptance, but this Powers idiot is well on her way. Think first is denial, second is outrage…so when the Dums lose the Senate, I don’t think she’ll even be that upset.

msupertas on February 12, 2014 at 12:54 PM

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:49 PM

From your linked article:

What’s killing Americans earlier than their foreign counterparts? The JAMA study found the greatest risk factor, as measured by the number of related deaths, was diet, followed by tobacco, high blood pressure and obesity.

This has nothing to do with single payer. Unless “single payer” in your mind is some totalitarian regime that ensures citizens strictly adhere to a “healthy state approved lifestyle”.

gwelf on February 12, 2014 at 12:54 PM

I smell political battlefield prep for a push to single payer.

bgibbs1000 on February 12, 2014 at 12:55 PM

more healthier and live longer than Americans.

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:49 PM

That’s twice now with the “more healthier”, what are you? 12? And referencing your articles, you Do know that they calculations are done differently in Europe and they don’t have the “yutes” in Detroit killing each other to gum up the numbers, right?

BeachBum on February 12, 2014 at 12:55 PM

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:49 PM

Did you miss the part about an excerpt?

If you could be so kind, please post an excerpt from a credible reference source that bolsters this assertion of yours forthwith, lest it be considered to be a total lie.

What is the basis for said comparisons?

DinaRehn on February 12, 2014 at 12:55 PM

What is the basis for said comparisons?

DinaRehn on February 12, 2014 at 12:55 PM

The LA Times said so.

oldroy on February 12, 2014 at 12:55 PM

Read the British newspapers and you’ll see articles every day complaining about the disastrous system they have.

crankyoldlady on February 12, 2014 at 12:55 PM

To be clear, the self-inflicted wounds haven’t been fatal. Obamacare is moving forward—and the doomsayers’ prophecies have fallen flat: People are signing up, premiums are lower than expected, and the law’s basic survival is assured.

“Survival” is assured? In what alternate universe does this person live? If premiums skyrocket, does anyone think people will just pay the piper?

GarandFan on February 12, 2014 at 12:56 PM

I have friend who is a liberal who told me she thought Cuba has a wonderful health care system. I never know what to say to these people. They have to be learning disabled. I told her Cuba is a third world communist dictatorship. That’s all you need to know.

crankyoldlady on February 12, 2014 at 12:53 PM

You ask if they need a ride to the nearest harbor.

msupertas on February 12, 2014 at 12:56 PM

Older Americans have higher rates of serious diseases than aging Europeans, a study says.

Apparently having government-subsidized health coverage will keep you from contracting a serious disease from smoking, eating crap food, not exercising, or just having plain old bad luck.

Not sure how but….you know…Lean Forward and stuff.

Bishop on February 12, 2014 at 12:56 PM

You ask if they need a ride to the nearest harbor.

msupertas on February 12, 2014 at 12:56 PM

Good one. I’m not good at thinking up quips on the spur of the moment. I wish I were.

crankyoldlady on February 12, 2014 at 12:57 PM

They should put that pretty South American girl back on the web site. That’ll fix it!

yubley on February 12, 2014 at 12:57 PM

It sounds like liberalnorules’ “sources” make the case for personal responsibility being the best health care.

22044 on February 12, 2014 at 12:57 PM

But what’s MOST shocking is that neither of the studies you dredged up have anything to do with medical care; they both deal with how our lifestyle(s) and diets suck.

bigmacdaddy on February 12, 2014 at 12:54 PM

Oh, the despicable, lying leftist scum are going to take care of those little problems, rest assured. They’ll tell you exactly what you can and can’t eat (don’t even think of any salt, Big Gulps, red meat – it’s soy beans and tofu for everyone!) and everyone will have mandatory morning calisthenics … or else.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on February 12, 2014 at 12:57 PM

Good one. I’m not good at thinking up quips on the spur of the moment. I wish I were.

crankyoldlady on February 12, 2014 at 12:57 PM

Feel free to use with my blessing, and more importantly, great success.

msupertas on February 12, 2014 at 12:59 PM

How come the average European is more healthier than your average American if our system is working fine like you claim?

Working fine for only a few people who can afford it, doesn’t mean it works fine for everyone.

liberalrules on February 12, 2014 at 12:38 PM

That’s because the European Union members die earlier so the unhealthy members don’t show up. Great example to follow… KILL THEM SOONER!

2011 mortality rate US: 8.3/1000
2011 mortality rate European Union: 10.33/1000

http://www.nationmaster.com/graph/peo_dea_rat-people-death-rate

I posit that conservatives have fewer cases of dementia than liberals because we actually exercise our brains!

dominigan on February 12, 2014 at 12:59 PM

Librules also has a problem with the stats, such as what happens when you remove accidents such as vehicle-crash fatalities from the mix.

The U.S. then jumps to….boy howdy…#1 for life expectancy.

But rest easy, Citizen, BarkyCare will keep you from crashing your car. Don’t ask how, just go with it.

Bishop on February 12, 2014 at 1:00 PM

And Belgium wants to start euthanizing children.

That’s healthy. /

22044 on February 12, 2014 at 1:00 PM

Cuba

Cuba

Cuba

oldroy on February 12, 2014 at 1:00 PM

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