Poll of 62,000 tea partiers: Ted Cruz is the most popular Republican 2016 candidate, Chris Christie rock bottom

posted at 2:01 pm on February 12, 2014 by Allahpundit

It was an online poll, alas, not a scientific one. But that’s close enough to blogworthy for a slow news day.

Quick: Assuming these numbers kinda sorta reflect tea-party opinion accurately, who’s the big winner?

tp

Ted Cruz is a winner, as is Paul. But the winner is Scott Walker, no? If you’re a Republican billionaire eager to sponsor a center-right candidate who’ll be “reasonable” on immigration, say, and whose nomination wouldn’t badly fracture the party, Walker’s your boy. While Cruz and Paul are busy killing each other to become the tea-party champion, Walker can spend his time consolidating support from the rest of the party. As long as no one else wins Iowa and New Hampshire, he’ll be well positioned by the time South Carolina rolls around to become a consensus choice among centrists, righties who admire him for his indefatigability in fighting the unions, and Republicans of all stripes who worry about that Paul and Cruz aren’t electable enough to beat Hillary. He’s got some of the same landmines in front of him as Christie did — he needs to win reelection and he can’t have any ethics slip-ups — but if he makes it past that, he’s probably the frontrunner.

Speaking of which, this poll’s the best evidence yet that I was right in thinking that Christie, even more so than fellow RINOs like Jeb Bush and Jon Huntsman(!), is disliked by the base to an extent that might actually convince some conservatives to stay home if he’s the nominee. At 15 percent, he’s half as popular as the next most unpopular Republicans in the field. Even if Bridgegate evaporates overnight, what can this guy possibly do at this point to rehabilitate himself with the GOP base to make him at least as acceptable to conservatives as, say, Mike Huckabee is?

This is a start, I guess:

Gov. Chris Christie of New Jersey delivered an unexpectedly blistering broadside on Tuesday against the Democratic Party’s growing emphasis on income inequality, warning that the movement would “drive America toward mediocrity” and portraying its leaders, like Mayor Bill de Blasio of New York, as local liberals unlikely to ignite a national cause…

Mr. Christie pooh-poohed the issue and its champions, Mr. de Blasio and Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts, predicting that they would never achieve the level of influence that the Tea Party had exerted in the Republican Party. “I don’t think they are affecting the rest of the country all that much,” he said.

The problem, he said, is that Americans do not want income equality, suggesting that it is antithetical to the country’s abiding belief in “income opportunity” that rewards hard work and merit. “You want income equality? That is mediocrity,” he said. “Everybody can have an equal, mediocre salary.”

He also had kind words for George W. Bush (“grossly underappreciated by his own country”), which will help him win Bushworld’s favor if Jeb decides not to run but might evoke … more complicated reactions elsewhere. Put it all together and his tea-party standing must be — what? Maybe 16 percent now? “I know when I was mayor and manager of this city and then governor of the state,” said his old frenemy Sarah Palin of Bridgegate, “certainly you know what your top aides are up to.”

By the way, for what it’s worth, increasingly I think Cruz won’t run. He just doesn’t need to right now. Rand Paul may feel more urgency because no one knows how long the libertarian-ish moment America’s experiencing will last. Cruz, a younger man, may decide he’s got plenty of time and could use a few more years in the Senate to (re)build relationships and to keep building his brand. Even if some other Republican wins in 2016, he’ll only be in his early 50s by the time he’s free to run again in 2024, by which time his resume will be longer and more impressive. In the meantime, he could earn some grudging goodwill from libertarians who are suspicious of him by backing Paul in 2016, maybe in exchange for an appointment to AG or even the Supreme Court if Paul wins. (In which case, cancel the 2024 plans.) If Paul loses to Hillary, that’s okay too. That just means Cruz can run in 2020, when the country will be suffering from 12 years of Democratic fatigue instead of eight. And if Paul loses in the primary to a centrist Republican, that’s also okay. Cruz can then spend the rest of his Senate term attacking the next president, whether Democrat or Republican, for being too liberal. And best of all, he won’t have to compete with Rand for tea-party attention: I believe Kentucky law bars candidates from running for two federal offices simultaneously, so if Paul jumps into the 2016 field, he’s done as a senator one way or another. However you slice it, Cruz can afford to wait.


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“Unscientific” is a grossly generous description of this slow news day poll of members of a (tea) party that actually has no national party or registration, but….

It is fascinating to observe AP doing the “See no Palin, Hear no Palin, Speak no Palin” routine, dancing around the 800 lb. Mama Grizzly in the room.

She’s focused on 2014, which the rest of us should be, considering the threats to our nation emanating from our own Congress. But, should she enter the race, the Richter scale might have to be recalculated.

IndieDogg on February 12, 2014 at 3:11 PM

I mean, I know the public holds Congress in pretty low regard, but I’m thinking a father who is a former Congressman kinda trumps that…

JohnGalt23 on February 12, 2014 at 2:53 PM

When you consider who is and was allowed to walk the hallowed halls of congress as a member therein, I don’t think that’s much of a selling point.

gryphon202 on February 12, 2014 at 3:14 PM

JohnGalt23 on February 12, 2014 at 3:02 PM

Rand’s got ballz-but he needs to show his ‘bonifides’ when it comes to supporting Israel-and needs to LOUDLY denounce any Jew-haters/truthers etc that throw their support behind him.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 12, 2014 at 3:14 PM

Hm. What if Palin runs, Cruz doesn’t, and he throws his support behind her (e.g., his CPAC appearance praising her).

(hehe)

cs89 on February 12, 2014 at 3:10 PM

Then it makes it a lot harder, and likely impossible for Rand Paul to win. But it also makes it more likely that a moderate (Bush, Christie) would win.

I don’t think Palin is going to run. If she was, the obvious first move would be a run against Begich, to raise her profile. She has young kids to raise, is making pretty good coin on TV right now, and doesn’t look like she is doing what she would need to do to make a WH run…

JohnGalt23 on February 12, 2014 at 3:16 PM

C’mon guys, stop it. No more legislators at the top of the list please. Cruz is awesome, but AG would be more fitting. Heck, he’s needed in the Senate along with a couple dozen clones. Same with Rubio and Paul, etc. Let’s go for someone that knows executive from legislative. Haven’t we had enough legislation from the oval office? Walker is looking good, and he get’s the libs frothing. Palin with Cruz as AG and we could see the enemies of the US currently holding office in orange jumpsuits. The media won’t let that happen though… would they?
Gotta go, Snoopy Poopy Droopy Drawers just got on the train and I NEED his autograph.

P. Logan on February 12, 2014 at 3:17 PM

Walker is the only one on the list that generates any excitement for me, but what difference would he make when the GOP leadership sucks so bad?

HiJack on February 12, 2014 at 3:18 PM

When you consider who is and was allowed to walk the hallowed halls of congress as a member therein, I don’t think that’s much of a selling point.

gryphon202 on February 12, 2014 at 3:14 PM

I fully realize the limitations. It’s not like his father was a doctor, or some such respected profession.

Oh. Wait…

Either way, our current POTUS’ father was a drunken Marxist who bailed on his wife and wrapped his car around a tree. Even former Member of Congress polls better…

JohnGalt23 on February 12, 2014 at 3:19 PM

annoyinglittletwerp on February 12, 2014 at 3:01 PM

Don’t get me wrong, don’t want Condi as President. But I still like her and respect her.

She may have voted for Obama, but I don’t think she ever said she did. From what I can tell she just didn’t answer the question. Not good, but not proof.

My main problem with her is that she seems pretty pro-choice. Although again, she is kind of silent on the topic. Guess I prefer silent liberal Republicans to loud mouth liberal Republicans.

KMav on February 12, 2014 at 3:19 PM

Don’t get me wrong, don’t want Condi as President. But I still like her and respect her.

She may have voted for Obama, but I don’t think she ever said she did. From what I can tell she just didn’t answer the question. Not good, but not proof.

My main problem with her is that she seems pretty pro-choice. Although again, she is kind of silent on the topic. Guess I prefer silent liberal Republicans to loud mouth liberal Republicans.

KMav on February 12, 2014 at 3:19 PM

She can play a mean piano, though.

HiJack on February 12, 2014 at 3:21 PM

Not fond of needlepoint or macrame either.

Murphy9 on February 12, 2014 at 3:23 PM

I think Paul could put some serious cracks in some Dem voting blocks.

Walker has the executive experience though. And other than amnesty, he’s been a solid conservative.

Clark1 on February 12, 2014 at 3:23 PM

Rick Perry? PUHLEASE – aint gonna happen

Rand Paul – far FAR too heavy on the “protectionist” side of things

As someone else mentioned above we need at least a dozen Cruz clones!

Katfish on February 12, 2014 at 3:29 PM

Ted Cruz is a winner, as is Paul. But the winner is Scott Walker, no? If you’re a Republican billionaire eager to sponsor a center-right candidate who’ll be “reasonable” on immigration, say, and whose nomination wouldn’t badly fracture the party, Walker’s your boy.

I’ve been arguing this too; Walker is the obvious “compromise” candidate. But I think he will be written off by the liberal Republicans as “too extreme.” The nominee will be one of either Christie, Rubio, or Bush.

Doomberg on February 12, 2014 at 3:30 PM

The nominee will be one of either Christie, Rubio, or Bush.

Doomberg on February 12, 2014 at 3:30 PM

Three strikes. Yer out!

HiJack on February 12, 2014 at 3:35 PM

This poll is totally fake. Out of the top eleven only four are white males, the rest are a combination of African American, Cuban, East Indian and, wait for it……….women.

antipc on February 12, 2014 at 3:36 PM

Walker has the executive experience though. And other than amnesty, he’s been a solid conservative.

Clark1 on February 12, 2014 at 3:23 PM

You missed this comment: Flora Duh on February 12, 2014 at 3:01 PM

bluefox on February 12, 2014 at 3:37 PM

Walker has the executive experience though. And other than amnesty, he’s been a solid conservative.

Clark1 on February 12, 2014 at 3:23 PM

That story about Walker supporting amnesty is a lie by the Washington Post.

Exclusive — Gov. Scott Walker: I Don’t Support Amnesty

Flora Duh on February 12, 2014 at 3:41 PM

I stand with Walker. Executive experience matters.

WisRich on February 12, 2014 at 3:43 PM

That story about Walker supporting amnesty is a lie by the Washington Post.

Exclusive — Gov. Scott Walker: I Don’t Support Amnesty

Flora Duh on February 12, 2014 at 3:41 PM

Agreed. Although AP responded with a post here in November, seemingly arguing that Walker’s nuanced “anti-amnesty” position was even WORSE.

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/11/20/scott-walker-im-not-for-amnesty-im-for-making-legal-immigration-easier/

cdog0613 on February 12, 2014 at 3:48 PM

Still spreading the MSM’s twisted lies even though they’ve been pointed out to you twice?
Flora Duh on February 12, 2014 at 3:01 PM

Don’t sweat it. She does the same with Palin, too. Numerous times it’s been pointed out to her the lies she believes with regards to Palin’s resigning her position as governor, yet she still prefers the lies to the truth.

For me? PALIN 2016! And if not her, anyone with strong conservative creds. That leaves out Ben Carson, much as I like him, because of his rather odd 2nd amendment views. But it leaves in Cruz, Lee, Walker, Rand Paul, Jindal, Perry, etc., etc.

theotherone on February 12, 2014 at 3:49 PM

Rand Paul’s been a good senator-but I don’t want him in the WH.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 12, 2014 at 2:48 PM

No. You want Rick Perry in the WH. But, for whatever reason, you can’t see that that is not going to happen.

He had a reasonable shot last time around, and he fumbled rather badly. Bad enough that he would have to do something spectacular between now and the start of the race, just to make up the ground. But he’s an outgoing governor, without any shot of a Senate seat anytime soon. Which means his visibility is limited.

Which leaves him pretty well in the dust…

JohnGalt23 on February 12, 2014 at 2:58 PM

They got Perry wearing thick glasses these days to help with his, er, image problem in the public’s mind. He’s a newer, smarter Rick Perry… now that he wears thick glasses.

The GOP is racing towards Ron Paul’s foreign policy positions, and they are rallying behind Rand Paul’s foreign policy stands. Amongst which, I’ll remind you, was a very public excoriation of Frau Pantsuit over Benghazi, which I dare say few, if any, members of the GOP were able to match.

See that bright blue line at your feet, ALT? That’s history.

And you’re on the wrong side of it…

JohnGalt23 on February 12, 2014 at 3:02 PM

Yes, the country is changing. Some folks are going to have to accept that now.

Punchenko on February 12, 2014 at 3:52 PM

I fully realize the limitations. It’s not like his father was a doctor, or some such respected profession.

Oh. Wait…

Either way, our current POTUS’ father was a drunken Marxist who bailed on his wife and wrapped his car around a tree. Even former Member of Congress polls better…

JohnGalt23 on February 12, 2014 at 3:19 PM

Again, to me, that’s not much of a selling point. Doctors can be skilled brain surgeons and still be kooks when it comes to politics. The one thing I can say Ron Paul does absolutely have going for him is that he’s not a career lawyer. Talk about your damning by faint praise…

Anyhow, I’m chasing rabbit trails here. You can count on the lapdog media to ensure that every other question Rand fields on the campaign trail will be “Do you agree with your father on [insert Ron Paul policy proposal here]?”

gryphon202 on February 12, 2014 at 3:53 PM

Total, utter BS. Illegal aliens are not victims. Where is the compassion for American citizens who have been hurt by mass, unchecked illegal immigration? Where is the compassion for all of the LEGAL immigrants who have been waiting years for their green cards?

Quit trying to blur the line between legal and illegal immigration.

There is nothing “compassionate” about illegal alien amnesty. Unless you see “compassion” in destroying the country and ensuring that eventually we are unable to ever again elect a conservative president, all so that big business will have more cheap labor and the Democrat Party millions more voters.

Show me once where I said anything about supporting illegal immigration. All I asked was where is the line between compassion and protecting Freedom. Nowhere did I say both need to be equally respected.

It would be nice to round up all the illegals and deport them. Who’s gonna do it with all the political forces we have right now? You?

I understand where you are coming from. Lived in Texas for many years and many illegals lived there also and I knew many. I’m not now familiar with the Legal Immigration laws in effect now, but at that time many completed required paperwork for Naturalization. Everything is a mess now, that only an Immigration Attorney would be helpful.

bluefox on February 12, 2014 at 2:49 PM

This is exactly my point. Not the BS interpretation blueball tried to put in my mouth. I’m a huge fan of Rush Limbaugh’s immigration plan. Let them all become legal, but they aren’t allowed to vote for 25 years. That’s a pathway to Citizenship I’d support. I’d also throw in no gov’t benefits for those 25 years as well. I think that’s a good start for compassion.

.

In the years I’ve been coming to this site, it’s amazing how many on here jump at the chance to twist the words of those who are Tea Party/Conservative types so they can feel superior by putting them in a little “box” or call them a RINO when it’s obvious by past posts they aren’t. Do you feel better now blueball (not to be confused with bluefox, who’s obviously more intelligent) now that you exposed my blatant Progressiveness?

My family and friends would laugh at the mere thought of anyone accusing me of that. I’ve probably offended many people with how overbearing I can be with talk of saving and restoring Freedom and Sovereignty in this country. Uh-oh! Now I’m gonna be accused of supporting the nutjob Alex Jones and called a Ronulon or Paulbot. I bet that would boost your ego for a few days, wouldn’t it blueball?.

I’ve known who the Commie-in-Chief was since 2007. Don’t lump my views in with anything remotely related to the Communist/Progressive/Democrat agenda. You’re wasting your time trying to “trip me up”.

.

I do have to give MJBrutus props on connecting “hazing” with marijuana legalization in Colorado. Bravo Sherlock! I think you deserve a star sticker to make you feel special the rest of the day.

UnstChem on February 12, 2014 at 3:54 PM

I stand with Walker. Executive experience matters.

WisRich on February 12, 2014 at 3:43 PM

Hillary has more testosterone than Scott Walker.

Punchenko on February 12, 2014 at 3:54 PM

The electorate will choose Alpha Male Hillary over Beta Male Scott Walker.

Punchenko on February 12, 2014 at 3:56 PM

I don’t think Palin is going to run. If she was, the obvious first move would be a run against Begich, to raise her profile. She has young kids to raise, is making pretty good coin on TV right now, and doesn’t look like she is doing what she would need to do to make a WH run…

JohnGalt23 on February 12, 2014 at 3:16 PM

Obvious only to Beltway types.

But Palin has NEVER operated under the conventional wisdom.

Which is why the Beltway types HATE her.

Begich is a lightweight who will be easily defeated by ANY of the current GOP candidates running.

Meanwhile, Palin is free to pick and choose candidates across the nation who are grounded, experienced, commonsense, constitutionalists not in love with their own ambition and the cheers of the Beltway types.

Squandering energy on one already-as-good-as-won-for-the-GOP Senate race versus influencing at least half a dozen more Senate races?

Do the math.

hrh40 on February 12, 2014 at 3:57 PM

Since Chris Christie has supposedly hit “rock bottom” on electability, he’s guaranteed to be the candidate backed by the entire Republican Establishment!

Mahdi on February 12, 2014 at 3:57 PM

That story about Walker supporting amnesty is a lie by the Washington Post.

Exclusive — Gov. Scott Walker: I Don’t Support Amnesty

Flora Duh on February 12, 2014 at 3:41 PM

Combine the above with this and you have all the explanation why many on here have been turned off by Gov. Walker’s “pro-amnesty” stance.

UnstChem on February 12, 2014 at 3:59 PM

cdog0613 on February 12, 2014 at 3:48 PM

Yes, I read that, and I disagree with AP’s interpretation. I understood the Governor to mean that we need to fix the legal system (courts) which is allowing so many illegals to stay in the country after fixing the front door that is enabling them to enter in the first place.

Flora Duh on February 12, 2014 at 4:00 PM

Porksters from the right

Schadenfreude on February 12, 2014 at 4:02 PM

Don’t sweat it. She does the same with Palin, too. Numerous times it’s been pointed out to her the lies she believes with regards to Palin’s resigning her position as governor, yet she still prefers the lies to the truth.

For me? PALIN 2016! And if not her, anyone with strong conservative creds. That leaves out Ben Carson, much as I like him, because of his rather odd 2nd amendment views. But it leaves in Cruz, Lee, Walker, Rand Paul, Jindal, Perry, etc., etc.

theotherone on February 12, 2014 at 3:49 PM

Yes, I am quite familiar with the way she works. I can say with certainty that I will not support Christie or Jeb Bush, but I am going to hold off on throwing my support behind any candidate until the actually say they’re a candidate.

Flora Duh on February 12, 2014 at 4:06 PM

Porksters from the right

Schadenfreude on February 12, 2014 at 4:02 PM

Saw that a few hours ago. Go and look at which R’s voted for it. I was a little surprised at Issa but I guess I shouldn’t be.

UnstChem on February 12, 2014 at 4:06 PM

Christie probably has much higher approval among self-described “progressives”.
Mainly because he is one himself.

Norwegian on February 12, 2014 at 4:11 PM

but I am going to hold off on throwing my support behind any candidate until the actually say they’re a candidate.

Flora Duh on February 12, 2014 at 4:06 PM

Yup–which is why I threw in the caveat of “if not her.” I have no guarantees that Palin will run. I would like her to run, but she is her own person, and goes her own way. And I could hardly blame her if she opted not to submit herself and her family to another media hate fest like the first. They will, probably literally, be out for blood if she makes a move in that direction.

theotherone on February 12, 2014 at 4:15 PM

That story about Walker supporting amnesty is a lie by the Washington Post.
Exclusive — Gov. Scott Walker: I Don’t Support Amnesty
Flora Duh on February 12, 2014 at 3:41 PM

Even John McCain and Rubio say they don’t support “amnesty.” Heck, even Obama would say he doesn’t support “amnesty.” Do you really believe them when they say they don’t support amnesty? I am disappointed to see that you are that gullible.

Flora, a special pathway to citizenship for illegal aliens is amnesty.

bluegill on February 12, 2014 at 4:19 PM

The electorate will choose Alpha Male Hillary over Beta Male Scott Walker.
Punchenko on February 12, 2014 at 3:56 PM

Well said.

Look, pro-amnesty Scott Walker is incredibly dull and is like a Tim Pawlenty without the charisma.

bluegill on February 12, 2014 at 4:21 PM

Exclusive — Gov. Scott Walker: I Don’t Support Amnesty
Flora Duh on February 12, 2014 at 3:41 PM

Hahahaha. Does Walker also consider himself a “severely” hawkish person on border security?

Special pathway to legalization for illegal aliens = amnesty, whether or not Scott Walker and the rest of the amnesty gang want to call it for what it is.

bluegill on February 12, 2014 at 4:24 PM

Even John McCain and Rubio say they don’t support “amnesty.” Heck, even Obama would say he doesn’t support “amnesty.” Do you really believe them when they say they don’t support amnesty? I am disappointed to see that you are that gullible.

Flora, a special pathway to citizenship for illegal aliens is amnesty.

bluegill on February 12, 2014 at 4:19 PM

Funny, I remember you screeching that you would absolutely not support someone who supported abortion. Yet you fawned over Governor Romney, who changed his stance on abortion 3 times, like a lovesick schoolgirl to the point of being nauseating.

If you can prove unequivocally that Governor Walker said he supports a special pathway to citizenship for illegal aliens, I’ll admit I am wrong.

Flora Duh on February 12, 2014 at 4:29 PM

bluefox on February 12, 2014 at 2:49 PM

This is exactly my point. Not the BS interpretation blueball tried to put in my mouth. I’m a huge fan of Rush Limbaugh’s immigration plan. Let them all become legal, but they aren’t allowed to vote for 25 years. That’s a pathway to Citizenship I’d support. I’d also throw in no gov’t benefits for those 25 years as well. I think that’s a good start for compassion.

UnstChem on February 12, 2014 at 3:54 PM

Frankly, I don’t think that is a reasonable expectation. Many vote now and trying to deny them after having legal status would be challenged. There is a fair way to accomplish real Immigration reform. But it can’t be carte blanc amnesty wrapped into a bill entitled “Immigration Reform.” The motives of both parties in Congress & the Administration are selfish and based on what profits them politically.

The Country, the American Citizens nor the Illegals are not taken into consideration regarding the effects of what they plan.

We see the effects of what happens when bills are written and passed behind closed doors with Obamacare. Again, it had to be that way because the motive was not health care.

I fear Immigration “reform” may be headed the same way. Wrong motives, bad law.

It would be good if some common sense on this issue would prevail.

bluefox on February 12, 2014 at 4:36 PM

Well said.

Look, pro-amnesty Scott Walker is incredibly dull and is like a Tim Pawlenty without the charisma.

bluegill on February 12, 2014 at 4:21 PM

I understand completely. It’s a stygma of his. Then I see him in interviews and he’s not that bad. I would like to see him run so he can defend/clarify his views on immigration. If it turns out he is just as pro-amnesty as you accuse him of (and wish he were already in front of a firing-squad for), then he’s not the guy.

We need to have someone with enough of a track record of conservatism that brings out the base and doesn’t cower to the RNC. Losing 6 million conservative votes to pick up a 1,000,000 Hispanics (which is what the stupid Repub Progressives want our candidates to do) will lose every time.

Funny, I remember you screeching that you would absolutely not support someone who supported abortion. Yet you fawned over Governor Romney, who changed his stance on abortion 3 times, like a lovesick schoolgirl to the point of being nauseating.

If you can prove unequivocally that Governor Walker said he supports a special pathway to citizenship for illegal aliens, I’ll admit I am wrong.

Flora Duh on February 12, 2014 at 4:29 PM

If you actually understood Mormon doctrine on when life begins/conception you would know Romney’s views on abortion were twisted by both sides to make him seem like a flip-flopper on the issue. Mormons ultimately believe that people should always have their free will, but that a decision on abortion must be accompanied with prayer and fasting. (How many people do you think would go through an abortion if they were genuinely praying and fasting about it?)

UnstChem on February 12, 2014 at 4:40 PM

Walker would drive the liberal elites crazy because he doesn’t have a college degree.

Perry is the most opposite of Obama and he also inherited a Bush economy.

monalisa on February 12, 2014 at 4:46 PM

If you can prove unequivocally that Governor Walker said he supports a special pathway to citizenship for illegal aliens, I’ll admit I am wrong.
Flora Duh on February 12, 2014 at 4:29 PM

VIDEO – Scott Walker says “Sure!” to illegal alien amnesty. Skip to last seconds of video:
http://youtu.be/PJ6cXpFrk0c

Yes, he later backtracked, but are we going to believe another “build the dang fence”?

Also, look at the end of the video posted here:

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/02/scott-walker-supports-path-to-citizenship-87960.html

I don’t want you to apologize. I am not interested in getting anyone’s apology, Flora. I just care about this issue, and Walker clearly says he supports legalization for illegal aliens. I believe you are also against amnesty, and I know you want to believe Walker. I wish we could, but look who he is aligning himself with; he has nothing but praise for the most pro-amnesty Republican in Congress, Paul Ryan (who calls illegal aliens “exploited Americans”), and Walker has already said that Jeb Bush would be his preferred choice for president.

bluegill on February 12, 2014 at 4:47 PM

My apologies to anyone put to sleep while watching the previously posted Scott Walker videos. I know Walker is dull, but please do your best to stay awake until the end of the videos when he mentions pathway to legalization for illegal aliens.

bluegill on February 12, 2014 at 4:49 PM

If Christie is the nominee, I would not only sit out the 2016 election…

I’d move to Canada as an illegal immigrant with a Chinese name so I’m very multicultural.

KirknBurker on February 12, 2014 at 4:57 PM

Frankly, I don’t think that is a reasonable expectation. Many vote now and trying to deny them after having legal status would be challenged. There is a fair way to accomplish real Immigration reform. But it can’t be carte blanc amnesty wrapped into a bill entitled “Immigration Reform.” The motives of both parties in Congress & the Administration are selfish and based on what profits them politically.

The Country, the American Citizens nor the Illegals are not taken into consideration regarding the effects of what they plan.

We see the effects of what happens when bills are written and passed behind closed doors with Obamacare. Again, it had to be that way because the motive was not health care.

I fear Immigration “reform” may be headed the same way. Wrong motives, bad law.

It would be good if some common sense on this issue would prevail.

bluefox on February 12, 2014 at 4:36 PM

Obviously Rush’s immigration plan is tongue-in-cheek since no Democrat would go for it. You are right though. The only immigration reform that would work is one not motivated by the Dems getting new voters and Big Business getting cheap labor. Common-sense (which isn’t in Washington) would be nice for achange.

UnstChem on February 12, 2014 at 4:58 PM

bluegill on February 12, 2014 at 4:49 PM

bluegill is normally a complete *ss on this site, but I think he has a point here.

The risk with Walker is that he is too big business national chamber of commerce like to risk. I still think a Rand Paul / Nicki Haley or a Mike Pence / Haley ticket will kick some.

KirknBurker on February 12, 2014 at 5:00 PM

What are people’s reactions to the following possible combos:

Walker / Paul

Unite the coalition.

Or,…

Paul / Walker

KirknBurker on February 12, 2014 at 5:07 PM

Too bad nobody cares what radical Tea Partiers want. Remember Kittens Mittens Romney?

Tea Partiers don’t have a say in anything. They should get back to doing what they do best: Cosplaying and amusing the hell out of liberals.

LeftoCenter on February 12, 2014 at 5:08 PM

bluegill is normally a complete *ss on this site, but I think he has a point here

bluegill correctly stays on point with the amnesty deal, that and the unbelievable debt are the biggest issues we face because they can destroy the country very quickly

I would support Walker in a heartbeat if it wasn’t for his stupidity on amnesty.

DanMan on February 12, 2014 at 5:15 PM

bluegill on February 12, 2014 at 4:47 PM

I’m not convinced unequivocally, but I can see how his comments could be interpreted by some as saying he supports citizenship for illegal aliens.

He is right about one thing though, the immigration system, as well as the legal system that deals with them, is badly broken and needs to be fixed.

But in fairness, shouldn’t you also be showing the interview where he says outright that he doesn’t support amnesty when you’re discussing this issue and let people decide for themselves?

Flora Duh on February 12, 2014 at 5:26 PM

Word of advice…

Our new little friend leftocenter has spent the entire morning trolling the Palin thread (as all trolls do).

Apparently, he was banned yesterday, but he claims he appealed to AP, who reinstated him.

Feed him at your own risk, but he’s obviously only interested in stirring sh*t up, so best ignore him here.

Eric in Hollywood on February 12, 2014 at 5:38 PM

Paul in WH because I believe he would actively rein in executive power.

We NEED (!!!!!!) strong reps in both houses to reclaim the legislature as the seat of control over govt as our founders intended. Cruz and Lee are great first steps in the Senate.

We just need to fill the house with Tea Partiers.

questionmark on February 12, 2014 at 5:40 PM

@ Eric in Hollywood

Thanks for the heads up. I’ll be sure to keep my eye out for him.

God I hate trolls

LeftoCenter on February 12, 2014 at 5:43 PM

I find it interesting, though, that Cruz is the most popular, considering that PMSDNC has been having sh*t fits over Christie.

According to the racists over there, we’re all supposed to be just gaga over the fat man.

Eric in Hollywood on February 12, 2014 at 5:49 PM

For Christie:

The intro by Ace always kills.

Art Vandelay on February 12, 2014 at 5:49 PM

Interesting. 3 openly liberal names all in front of IBeatAnorexia guy.

Although still can’t figure out how a pro amnesty guy runs second in this poll? No one heard him last year and then again in TX just this past week?

riddick on February 12, 2014 at 6:10 PM

I would support Walker in a heartbeat if it wasn’t for his stupidity on amnesty.

DanMan on February 12, 2014 at 5:15 PM

I keep hearing about Walker being the “compromise” candidate, but how is he any better on illegal immigration than the other potential GOP candidates?

shubalstearns on February 12, 2014 at 6:18 PM

Allah keeps referring to Scott Walker as a moderate. He’s a conservative!

Jack_Burton on February 12, 2014 at 6:29 PM

Eric in Hollywood on February 12, 2014 at 5:38 PM

Seriously?!!!
When I got banned it took a week to get out of it…and then I got to spend a month on Moderation Island.
…and I’ve been here since ’06!

annoyinglittletwerp on February 12, 2014 at 6:35 PM

Run Sarah run!!!!

don’t listen to freakin Piper.

renalin on February 12, 2014 at 6:38 PM

Seriously?!!!
When I got banned it took a week to get out of it…and then I got to spend a month on Moderation Island.
…and I’ve been here since ’06!

annoyinglittletwerp on February 12, 2014 at 6:35 PM

I kid you not…

@ Lanceman

I was banned yesterday but I appealed to AP and he reinstated me since I did not violate any rules.

LeftoCenter on February 12, 2014 at 5:31 PM

Go figure…

Eric in Hollywood on February 12, 2014 at 6:41 PM

annoyinglittletwerp on February 12, 2014 at 6:35 PM

At the risk of being banned again, I’ll go ahead and state that I said “schadenb*ner” twice in one thread about a Democrat embarrassment last spring, and was NEVER reinstated, despite months of pleading.

Never got so much as an email response back to anything I wrote the bosses.

Just sayin.

Eric in Hollywood on February 12, 2014 at 6:44 PM

Eric in Hollywood on February 12, 2014 at 6:44 PM

I guess that trolls rate higher than patriots.
*spits*
*I don’t want to know who you were-but I’m still glad that you’re back.*

annoyinglittletwerp on February 12, 2014 at 6:47 PM

*I don’t want to know who you were-but I’m still glad that you’re back.*

annoyinglittletwerp on February 12, 2014 at 6:47 PM

God love ya.

Eric in Hollywood on February 12, 2014 at 6:49 PM

I’m sure MSNBC will highlight how this racist Tea Party hopefuls list is full of nothing but white men…oh wait…

Vigilante on February 12, 2014 at 6:56 PM

…why do you think cruz is just being political? maybe cruz will run in 2016 because he genuinely wants to help the country. cruz is one of those rare politicians who does things not out of political calculations, but because he truly wants to improve this country. i hope i’m not being overly optimistic but this is what cruz seems like to me.

Sachiko on February 12, 2014 at 2:09 PM

On first impressions and given Cruz’s history, to-date, I agree with you there, Sachiko.

Cruz also seems to be far more intelligent than most of Congress. He speaks to issues, the rest seem to scramble to even identify them.

Lourdes on February 12, 2014 at 7:16 PM

I would support Walker in a heartbeat if it wasn’t for his stupidity on amnesty.

DanMan on February 12, 2014 at 5:15 PM

Yes, me, too.

Lourdes on February 12, 2014 at 7:19 PM

…I’ve worked with someone who was brought into this country as a toddler because her mother legally married an American and raised their mixed family here. She’s still not a citizen but acts more American than Obama ever was in his dreams (of his father.)

It’s not so easy to feel hardcore about immigration when you actually meet people who have been caught up in the whole debacle. Where do we draw the compassionate line while protecting Liberty?

UnstChem on February 12, 2014 at 2:23 PM

Her parents, the illegal alien/s, are responsible for that wrong act. Apparently done quite intentionally, at that (otherwise, how could any parent, citizen of another country other than the USA, haul their child/ren into the USA illegally unless they intended to commit that illegal deed).

Send them home. Deport them, instruct them on how to apply for legal immigration and let them get in line to do that like other people in other nations who seek to become US citizens: they do it legally, by a legal process, they apply, they wait, they provide legitimate information (most do, I expect) and then they wait their turn.

There are always going to be people who cheat and then rationalize their cheating with a variety of bl**ding heart tales — which will be ongoing until they think they’ve manipulated people enough (or not) — and the US has to be firm in applying our laws as they are written.

I feel for people, empathetically, “who are brought here” by others but ultimately, aren’t all illegal aliens of that description? Didn’t they pay someone to hustle them along into the US? Didn’t they follow someone to do that? Didn’t they cheat visa requirements?

Lourdes on February 12, 2014 at 7:28 PM

On first impressions and given Cruz’s history, to-date, I agree with you there, Sachiko.

Cruz also seems to be far more intelligent than most of Congress. He speaks to issues, the rest seem to scramble to even identify them.

Lourdes on February 12, 2014 at 7:16 PM

Taking everything in right now, Cruz has been my first choice for as long as I first heard him endorsed and interviewed by Glenn Beck. He was unknown nationally until that point. My only gripe about Cruz is he doesn’t have executive experience. It’s a small gripe cause he sure is Hell-On-Wheels when it comes to the Constitution and is the best I’ve seen at kicking the contemptible Progressives from both parties in the teeth.

I’m off to go watch people insanely slide at high speeds along snow and ice. I used to that until I injured my knee on the terrain park jumps at Loveland Ski Area. Now I just watch and enjoy others doing it.

UnstChem on February 12, 2014 at 7:46 PM

So now Christy Creame is Mr. severely conservative?

bluesdoc70 on February 12, 2014 at 7:52 PM

I think it is grossly naive to think that Walker won’t sell out on amnesty….he will do so in less time than it takes to say, “Chris Christie is a great conservative.”

He will legalize 11 to 40 million illegal immigrants and their relatives, and from there, it’s just an easy slide to “We’re getting hammered on “second-class citizens.””

And then watch him sell out conservatives who trust him, just like Ayotte, Rubio, Flake, and Heller of Nevada.

He opposed the shutdown. Has he said that he would repeal Robertobamacare the instant he was president?

I’m tired of “conservatives” who say one thing and do another….

EastofEden on February 12, 2014 at 7:55 PM

Her parents, the illegal alien/s, are responsible for that wrong act. Apparently done quite intentionally, at that (otherwise, how could any parent, citizen of another country other than the USA, haul their child/ren into the USA illegally unless they intended to commit that illegal deed).

Actually her parents didn’t do anything illegal. Her mom and step-dad’s marriage wasn’t one of convenience. He was a natural-born U.S. Citizen. Her mom gained Citizenship through marriage, but she didn’t. Now she’s here 20 years later as a legal alien, raised as an American, is proud to live here but never got Citizenship. It’s easy to say, well then she just needs to do this or that when you aren’t the one that has to do it. Who in their right mind is gonna pay thousands of dollars and jump through hoops to become a Citizen when they can remain here legally with minor inconveniences? As much as she wanted Citizenship, she admitted the hassle wasn’t worth the benefit. It’s hard to appreciate something when you don’t know anything different.

The reason she’s in her situation has nothing to do with ANYONE breaking the law, and everything to do with our convoluted immigration laws that don’t even get enforced.

UnstChem on February 12, 2014 at 8:06 PM

Run Cruz Run. Run Cruz Run. Run Cruz Run. Run Cruz Run. Run Cruz Run

The country needs mre free entertainment.

LeftoCenter on February 12, 2014 at 8:18 PM

Quick: Assuming these numbers kinda sorta reflect tea-party opinion accurately, who’s the big winner?

Steve King. He’s beating 3 people who get much more press coverage than himself, and 1 senator who gets a fair amount more than himself.

Stoic Patriot on February 12, 2014 at 8:31 PM

Speaking of which, this poll’s the best evidence yet that I was right in thinking that Christie, even more so than fellow RINOs like Jeb Bush and Jon Huntsman(!), is disliked by the base to an extent that might actually convince some conservatives to stay home if he’s the nominee. At 15 percent, he’s half as popular as the next most unpopular Republicans in the field.

Bingo. Allah’s relationship with his loyal readership is famously … nuanced. But he gets us, I think, even to the point of distraction.

I guess we’re not real subtle.

Jaibones on February 12, 2014 at 9:22 PM

Hah, love the ‘Cuda-blast at Krispy for pretending to not know what’s going on just outside his office. I guess he figures it works for the Resident, it has to work for him, right? Sorry, fat man, only LIVs swallow that tripe. You’re still attempting to associate with a party full of people who believe in accountability and ruggged independence. So either stop dodging the truth, or jump the aisle and join the party which more closely suits your style.

Freelancer on February 12, 2014 at 9:27 PM

That story about Walker supporting amnesty is a lie by the Washington Post.

Exclusive — Gov. Scott Walker: I Don’t Support Amnesty

Flora Duh on February 12, 2014 at 3:41 PM

Someone get bluegill smelling salts and a stiff drink.

Jaibones on February 12, 2014 at 9:29 PM

These results warm my heart. :)

c4 on February 12, 2014 at 9:30 PM

I would support Walker in a heartbeat if it wasn’t for his stupidity on amnesty.

DanMan on February 12, 2014 at 5:15 PM

Yes, me, too.

Lourdes on February 12, 2014 at 7:19 PM

That story about Walker supporting amnesty is a lie by the Washington Post.

Exclusive — Gov. Scott Walker: I Don’t Support Amnesty

Flora Duh on February 12, 2014 at 3:41 PM

Some assembly required.

Jaibones on February 12, 2014 at 9:31 PM

Governor Walker already has TEA Party support, thus he is an easy winner IF the liberal Willard supporters stay out of the way.

Anyone unhappy with the current GOPe leadership that still refuses to get involved with their local TEA Party, or like group, remains the biggest part of the problem we are experiencing in DC today.

DannoJyd on February 12, 2014 at 11:44 PM

I’m predicting two out of Scott Walker/Rob Portman/Ted Cruz.

TheReasonableLiberal on February 13, 2014 at 12:25 AM

So what happens if Cruz doesn’t run? Just as importantly, what happens if Cruz runs and his nomination gets shot down?

gryphon202 on February 12, 2014 at 2:41 PM

Or what happens if Cruz runs, gets the nomination, and then gets the hot sh*t beat out of him by Cankles?

Lamont Cranston on February 13, 2014 at 2:14 AM

Anyone unhappy with the current GOPe leadership that still refuses to get involved with their local TEA Party, or like group, remains the biggest part of the problem we are experiencing in DC today.
DannoJyd on February 12, 2014 at 11:44 PM

Walker is an establishment darling.

DannoJyd, you used to go on about how others weren’t as hardcore conservative as you are, and now you get behind a pro-amnesty candidate in Walker?

Yes, Walker has been a good governor. I think we were all very happy when he beat the recall effort.

But illegal alien amnesty is way too big and important an issue. Total deal-breaker for me. It would eventually completely transform the electorate and affect all other issues. And amnesty would only encourage and lead to even more illegal immigration.

I think many of you are underestimating how big an issue this could become during the primaries.

I would love to see more Republican governors or another candidates step up and take a strong, credible pro-immigration law enforcement/no amnesty stand. Walker has already clearly said that he favors special legalization for illegal aliens (amnesty), and is totally off the list of possibilities.

I’m willing to overlook certain problematic stances of candidates, but not on amnesty. A no-amnesty position is absolutely nonnegotiable.

bluegill on February 13, 2014 at 3:02 AM

Speaking of amnesty, one that really hurt was Susana Martinez. In 2010 Martinez claimed to be against amnesty and against drivers licenses for illegal aliens. Since then, though she has made efforts to revoke the illegal alien drivers licenses and stop the practice in her state, she has come out for amnesty. It’s disappointing to me, since I had such high hopes for her. Last year she criticized Romney for his position on immigration law enforcement and pledged her for support for “comprehensive immigration reform” a.k.a. amnesty. Like Walker, she seems to have accepted the prevailing mindset among “party leadership” that amnesty must be done.

I know there are more potential candidates out there. Republicans candidates for president will learn that their support for amnesty will be a huge impediment for them. I am confident (hopeful?) that we will have at least a few credible, conservative, strong pro-immigration law enforcement candidates to choose from. (I’m a fan of Cruz, and I also hope there will be others)

bluegill on February 13, 2014 at 3:56 AM

And if there aren’t others, and Cruz runs, then the choice should be a damn easy one, as far as I’m concerned.

bluegill on February 13, 2014 at 3:57 AM

The poll indicated that the GOP elite north easterners will obviously nominate Chrispy.

Bleed_thelizard on February 13, 2014 at 5:51 AM

And just to add more about Martinez and amnesty ( http://www.vdare.com/posts/new-mexico-governor-susana-martinez-wants-amnesty-and-for-gop-to-pander-to-hispanics )

Here she gives away part of the game that pro-amnesty Republicans are playing. They are avoiding the word “amnesty” and even denying that they are for amnesty. I was disappointed to see well-meaning commenters here like Flora Duh fall for Walker’s “I’m not for amnesty” spiel.

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2012/11/16/susana-martinez-mitt-romney-comments/

The governor also said she hopes the party can change their tone, eliminating words like “amnesty” from the debate.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/83960_Page2.html

After chatting with Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer a few minutes before, she said that Arizona’s restrictive immigration law is not the type she would implement in her state.

“And it can be tackled without using the word amnesty,” she said. “People can be in this country legally and contributing, and they can come here to do all kinds of jobs, not just jobs Americans don’t want, all kinds of jobs, get educated, the whole nine yards, but be here legally. And there’s a variety of ways of receiving that kind of status.”

I have been disgusted to see supposed conservative media allies, including bloggers at the site, avoid using the term “illegal alien amnesty.” Instead we get vague and even positive sounding terms like “immigration reform.” There is an effort to blur the line between legal and illegal illegal immigration.

Most Americans oppose illegal alien amnesty. Don’t let anyone tell you that there is a strong desire out there among voters for amnesty or that immigration law enforcement is merely a concern of the conservative “base.”

That’s why pro-amnesty supporters have to lie to voters, hide their true intentions and pay for ads like this:
VIDEO: http://youtu.be/ecrUDjMlf5s. (Gives impression Graham and Rubio are for getting “tough” on illegal aliens)

And here’s a Zuckerberg-funded, fake “conservative” ad that tries to trick voters into thinking the Republican sellout amnesty proposal is what’s needed to “get tough” on illegals:
VIDEO: http://youtu.be/l9XRF_kqIN4

Politicians like Martinez, Ryan, Rubio and Walker are all on the same page with this. I would like to see the tea party put forward more candidates who recognize the disaster that mass illegal alien amnesty would be.

The Chamber of Commerce and others are putting a lot of money towards trying to convince conservatives that these amnesty programs are the opposite of what they are.

bluegill on February 13, 2014 at 6:10 AM

And just to add more about Martinez and amnesty ( http://www.vdare.com/posts/new-mexico-governor-susana-martinez-wants-amnesty-and-for-gop-to-pander-to-hispanics )

Here she gives away part of the game that pro-amnesty Republicans are playing. They are avoiding the word “amnesty” and even denying that they are for amnesty. I was disappointed to see well-meaning commenters here like Flora Duh fall for Walker’s “I’m not for amnesty” spiel.

http://latino.foxnews.com/latino/politics/2012/11/16/susana-martinez-mitt-romney-comments/

The governor also said she hopes the party can change their tone, eliminating words like “amnesty” from the debate.

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1112/83960_Page2.html

After chatting with Arizona Gov. Jan Brewer a few minutes before, she said that Arizona’s restrictive immigration law is not the type she would implement in her state.

“And it can be tackled without using the word amnesty,” she said. “People can be in this country legally and contributing, and they can come here to do all kinds of jobs, not just jobs Americans don’t want, all kinds of jobs, get educated, the whole nine yards, but be here legally. And there’s a variety of ways of receiving that kind of status.”

I have been disgusted to see supposed conservative media allies, including bloggers at the site, avoid using the term “illegal alien amnesty.” Instead we get vague and even positive sounding terms like “immigration reform.” There is an effort to blur the line between legal and illegal illegal immigration.

bluegill on February 13, 2014 at 6:12 AM

Most Americans oppose illegal alien amnesty. Don’t let anyone tell you that there is a strong desire out there among voters for amnesty or that immigration law enforcement is merely a concern of the conservative “base.”

That’s why pro-amnesty supporters have to lie to voters, hide their true intentions and pay for ads like this:
VIDEO: http://youtu.be/ecrUDjMlf5s. (Gives impression Graham and Rubio are for getting “tough” on illegal aliens)

And here’s a Zuckerberg-funded, fake “conservative” ad that tries to trick voters into thinking the Republican sellout amnesty proposal is what’s needed to “get tough” on illegals:
VIDEO: http://youtu.be/l9XRF_kqIN4

Politicians like Martinez, Ryan, Rubio and Walker are all on the same page with this. I would like to see the tea party put forward more candidates who recognize the disaster that mass illegal alien amnesty would be.

The Chamber of Commerce and others are putting a lot of money towards trying to convince conservatives that these amnesty programs are the opposite of what they are.

bluegill on February 13, 2014 at 6:12 AM

The Minority Maker

The Senate passed the House debt-limit increase on Wednesday, but not before some needless drama that helps to explain why Republicans remain a minority.

Democrats had enough votes to pass the increase with a simple majority, which means they would have owned the debt increase. But then Senator Ted Cruz —the same fellow who planned the GOP’s shutdown fiasco in October—objected on the floor and insisted on a 60-vote majority.

Yeppers. We need more of this guy! /s

MJBrutus on February 13, 2014 at 6:49 AM

Yeppers. We need more of this guy! /s
MJBrutus on February 13, 2014 at 6:49 AM

We sure do!

Glad he got those RINO’s on record.

bluegill on February 13, 2014 at 6:53 AM

bluegill on February 13, 2014 at 6:53 AM

OK. So you’re one of those who prefer to be in the minority so long as you have your self-esteem. Me, I prefer winning and bringing about improvements where they can be accomplished. Noble sacrifices don’t do a thing for me.

MJBrutus on February 13, 2014 at 7:53 AM

Possible alternative headlines:

Most obvious result
Expected, happened
DUH
Tea Party reaffirms conservative roots
Tea Party outs Christie as RINO
Christie still last in Tea Party polls
Not the Republican Front Runner
Cruz Control
Cruz goes into the fast lane, Christie languishes behind barriers
Cruz laughs at Christie
Christie cries a river

OregonPolitician on February 13, 2014 at 8:06 AM

Ted Cruz and Rand Paul are political buddies; they are not out
there “killing” each other politically speaking. That is only in
your imagination. Have you figured out yet that they are a tag team? Attacking Obama on different issues at the same time?

I find it all quite fascinating.

Oh, and I would like to request that Hot Air’s obsession with Chris Christie be shelved for the time being. Although, you could put up Sarah Palin’s latest comments; a two for one, if you will.

Amjean on February 13, 2014 at 8:25 AM

And just to add more about Martinez and amnesty ( http://www.vdare.com/posts/new-mexico-governor-susana-martinez-wants-amnesty-and-for-gop-to-pander-to-hispanics )

Here she gives away part of the game that pro-amnesty Republicans are playing. They are avoiding the word “amnesty” and even denying that they are for amnesty. I was disappointed to see well-meaning commenters here like Flora Duh fall for Walker’s “I’m not for amnesty” spiel.

bluegill on February 13, 2014 at 6:12 AM

Now I know where you get your talking points from. Never again mention my name in the same comment with that Racist, Anti-Semite website.

Flora Duh on February 13, 2014 at 8:30 AM

Walker is the only one on the list that generates any excitement for me, but what difference would he make when the GOP leadership sucks so bad?
HiJack on February 12, 2014 at 3:18 PM

Sorry, but Scott ‘Amnesty’ Walker is a no go for me. He is firmly entrenched in Marco Rubio territory

Brock Robamney on February 13, 2014 at 9:36 AM

What are people’s reactions to the following possible combos:

Walker / Paul

Unite the coalition.

Or,…

Paul / Walker

KirknBurker on February 12, 2014 at 5:07 PM

The Paul/Walker ticket would likely crash and burn.

Too soon?

Caustic Conservative on February 13, 2014 at 9:37 AM

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