Rand Paul: Ken Cuccinelli and I are suing Obama and the NSA tomorrow on Fourth Amendment grounds

posted at 7:21 pm on February 11, 2014 by Allahpundit

A good example of why Rove’s criticism is so silly. Not only does Paul have a policy agenda, he’s not above using grand flourishes to advance it. Although this does have one thing in common with his dust-up with the Clintons: In both cases he’s raising his own political profile by picking a fight with a bigger-name Democrat. The context couldn’t be more different, but for an aspiring presidential candidate, it’s a smart way to operate.

Whether a Fourth Amendment suit will prevail depends on which judge they draw. Remember, within 12 days of each other in December, a federal district court judge appointed by Bush found the NSA’s data-mining program unconstitutional while another judge appointed by Clinton upheld it. Assuming both rulings are affirmed on appeal, it’s a cinch that this will end up in the Supreme Court. Paul’s shrewdly getting on board now, before it takes off, so that he’s in the middle of things as it moves up the legal food chain. He’s got a new website for the occasion too — DefendTheFourth.com, where you can enter your name and e-mail address to join his class-action suit. I wonder what other uses a presidential contender could find for a mailing list like that.

Good politics either way, though. It’ll further alienate hawks, but Paul doesn’t care about that. That bridge was burned long ago. Tea partiers, who disapprove of the NSA program to the tune of 68 percent, will love it. It’ll also earn him some respect among independents and Democrats; per the last link, there are now more people in both groups who oppose the program than who approve of it. The only way it blows up on him is if the program is dismantled and then something literally blows up, and even then, it’s SCOTUS who’ll take the blame, not Paul. I’m surprised he doesn’t have more GOP wannabes joining him on it, frankly.


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Rest assured that this is true.

Schadenfreude on February 11, 2014 at 7:25 PM

With Hillary and Paul party affiliation won’t be so cemented.

Schadenfreude on February 11, 2014 at 7:30 PM

Good luck getting that genie back in the bottle.
The govt. is expanding it’s power and they like it and all three branches have been colluding against the free citizen.

NeoKong on February 11, 2014 at 7:31 PM

Blue Buddha!!!

Bmore on February 11, 2014 at 7:31 PM

I’m surprised he doesn’t have more GOP wannabes joining him on it, frankly.

Why?

Schadenfreude on February 11, 2014 at 7:31 PM

Rest assured that this is true.

Schadenfreude on February 11, 2014 at 7:25 PM

What could possibly go wrong…

oscarwilde on February 11, 2014 at 7:32 PM

Taking it to the Thug-in-Chief.

Senator, it will be an honor to help you get elected…

JohnGalt23 on February 11, 2014 at 7:32 PM

Rand is a very interesting dude…

OmahaConservative on February 11, 2014 at 7:32 PM

obama does what he wants

Schadenfreude on February 11, 2014 at 7:34 PM

How about suing Obama for making his own unilateral changes to laws?

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2014 at 7:34 PM

Rand is a very interesting dude…

OmahaConservative on February 11, 2014 at 7:32 PM

Yes, I am as proud to be represented by Rand as I am ASHAMED of Mitch McRINO (whom I will NOT be voting for again, regardless of the primary).

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2014 at 7:35 PM

In the past 3 years, about the only time I can remember saying “Man, that is great politics” about a Republican has been when Rand Paul has been involved. That counts for something.

CaliSwag on February 11, 2014 at 7:35 PM

n the past 3 years, about the only time I can remember saying “Man, that is great politics” about a Republican has been when Rand Paul has been involved. That counts for something.

CaliSwag on February 11, 2014 at 7:35 PM

Yep! Go Rand! Go Kentucky! Stick it to Obama.

My congressman (Thomas Massie) also didn’t vote to raise the debt ceiling too.

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2014 at 7:37 PM

Someone needs to sue him for raised blood pressure.

PrettyMooch on February 11, 2014 at 7:37 PM

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2014 at 7:35 PM

I’ve seen you around lately and look fw to getting to know you….

OmahaConservative on February 11, 2014 at 7:39 PM

A Pharoah is not bound by any Fourth Amendment, nor any of the rest of any Bill of Rights, nor the whole damned outdated Constitution for that matter. A Pharoah does not answer to those of the slave class, like Rand Paul and Ken Cuccinelli. A Pharoah only answers to God, and then only if and when it suits him and he decides to give God a breif audience. Welcome to the new order. All hail, America’s First Pharoah, Obama Ramesses, the Greatest!

VorDaj on February 11, 2014 at 7:39 PM

Why sue Obama over the actions of the ObamaStasi?

He knows Nothing!/sarc.

DinaRehn on February 11, 2014 at 7:40 PM

A Pharoah is not bound by any Fourth Amendment, nor any of the rest of any Bill of Rights, nor the whole damned outdated Constitution for that matter. A Pharoah does not answer to those of the slave class, like Rand Paul and Ken Cuccinelli. A Pharoah only answers to God, and then only if and when it suits him and he decides to give God a breif audience. Welcome to the new order. All hail, America’s First Pharoah, Obama Ramesses, the Greatest!

VorDaj on February 11, 2014 at 7:39 PM

Yup, as president of the united states, he get’s to do anything he wants.

oscarwilde on February 11, 2014 at 7:41 PM

I’ve seen you around lately and look fw to getting to know you….

OmahaConservative on February 11, 2014 at 7:39 PM

Ashland/Huntington area?

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2014 at 7:41 PM

Ashland/Huntington area?

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2014 at 7:41 PM

No, Omaha NE. I meant here at HA…

OmahaConservative on February 11, 2014 at 7:42 PM

A Pharoah is not bound by any Fourth Amendment, nor any of the rest of any Bill of Rights, nor the whole damned outdated Constitution for that matter. A Pharoah does not answer to those of the slave class, like Rand Paul and Ken Cuccinelli. A Pharoah only answers to God, and then only if and when it suits him and he decides to give God a breif audience. Welcome to the new order. All hail, America’s First Pharoah, Obama Ramesses, the Greatest!

VorDaj on February 11, 2014 at 7:39 PM

I can just imagine some from the national socialist left reading that thinking hmmm good points… maybe we could use that rationale.

… then Barack the illegitimate utters ‘so let it be written, so let it done!’

DinaRehn on February 11, 2014 at 7:43 PM

Add to this the violations of the fifth amendment.

Due process.

They’re doing things and have no exposure to due process. I have more of a day in court of a parking ticket then I do over most of these federal actions. And that is a violation of the constitution.

Any government action is subject to a court challenge. Anything. They change the day they mow the lawn at the white house… it doesn’t matter.

Whether or not you win the case is down to the merits. And on many of these issues all the points are in our favor.

Karmashock on February 11, 2014 at 7:44 PM

I’m starting to see a presidential candidate I could get behind.

Ukiah on February 11, 2014 at 7:44 PM

Meaningless theater.

Aplombed on February 11, 2014 at 7:44 PM

Constantine, I am from near that area, welcome to HA :)

hollygolightly on February 11, 2014 at 7:45 PM

A Pharoah is not bound by any Fourth Amendment, nor any of the rest of any Bill of Rights, nor the whole damned outdated Constitution for that matter. A Pharoah does not answer to those of the slave class, like Rand Paul and Ken Cuccinelli. A Pharoah only answers to God, and then only if and when it suits him and he decides to give God a breif audience. Welcome to the new order. All hail, America’s First Pharoah, Obama Ramesses, the Greatest!

VorDaj on February 11, 2014 at 7:39 PM

Obama is NOT a Pharoah. Nor did he play one in a movie like Yul Brenner.

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2014 at 7:45 PM

Whether a Fourth Amendment suit will prevail depends on which judge they draw.

Why so cynical?

novaculus on February 11, 2014 at 7:46 PM

Constantine, I am from near that area, welcome to HA :)

hollygolightly on February 11, 2014 at 7:45 PM

Awesome! The Greater Ashland-Huntington Tri-State Area represent!

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2014 at 7:46 PM

I’m starting to see a presidential candidate I could get behind.

Ukiah on February 11, 2014 at 7:44 PM

No, comrade is going to be Jeb Bush/Chris Christie:

Poll reveals next GOP pres ticket: Jeb Bush/Chris Christie
http://thepeoplescube.com/peoples-blog/poll-reveals-next-gop-pres-ticket-jeb-bush-chris-christie-t13057.html
The recent online poll of 62,000 grassroots activists conducted by the Washington Examiner allows us to make a scientific prediction of the next Republican presidential ticket. Of course it will be Jeb Bush/Chris Christie (not necessarily in that order), ensuring the continuation of America’s unstoppable march towards the Progressive World of Next Tuesday!

Conservative Sens. Ted Cruz and Rand Paul top the biggest Tea Party presidential poll yet, while moderates New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie and former Florida Gov. Jeb Bush are dumped at the bottom, undermining their hopes of being 2016 crossover candidates.

Comrade Sterpin on February 11, 2014 at 7:49 PM

And while you’re at it, why don’t you sue the FCC on First Amendment grounds?

Socratease on February 11, 2014 at 7:49 PM

Meaningless theater.

Aplombed on February 11, 2014 at 7:44 PM

Damned close. Should have as much an effect as Darryl Issa’a endless hearings.

Lanceman on February 11, 2014 at 7:49 PM

Damned close. Should have as much an effect as Darryl Issa’a endless hearings.

Lanceman on February 11, 2014 at 7:49 PM

Hey, Issa sent a strongly worded e-mail & appeared on Hannity a few times.

tetriskid on February 11, 2014 at 7:50 PM

When do go all Kosovo on their @$$3$?

davidk on February 11, 2014 at 7:50 PM

When do we

davidk on February 11, 2014 at 7:51 PM

I support Rand Paul and Thomas Massie. Hoping to get rid of McConnell.

Patriot51 on February 11, 2014 at 7:52 PM

Karl Rove: Why is Rand Paul attacking Obama over things in the past?

xblade on February 11, 2014 at 7:56 PM

Meaningless theater.

Aplombed on February 11, 2014 at 7:44 PM

.
No, it isn’t in the least.
.

Damned close. Should have as much an effect as Darryl Issa’a endless hearings.

Lanceman on February 11, 2014 at 7:49 PM

.
Unlike Rep. Issa’s hearings, John Boehner cannot fluke with these proceedings.

It takes relatively little effort and opens a new front for the SCOAMF administration to which the they will have to commit resources.

That makes it VERY GOOD politics.

PolAgnostic on February 11, 2014 at 7:58 PM

I thought he was too busy talking about sex.

I’m surprised Rand Paul wants to hitch his wagon to a proven loser. Oh well.

HillAREwe on February 11, 2014 at 8:00 PM

A man with convictions and who doesn’t care what people think is very attractive.

Way to go Rand.

gophergirl on February 11, 2014 at 8:00 PM

Damned close. Should have as much an effect as Darryl Issa’a endless hearings.

Lanceman on February 11, 2014 at 7:49 PM

You’re sounding like the RINOs. You can’t win so don’t bother to try. At least he’s fighting back and he’s only one of a few but he’s doing something. However I do feel the same as you about Issa’s endless hearings. He’s doing something but if it has no result then stop it and do something else.

crankyoldlady on February 11, 2014 at 8:01 PM

You are not logged in.

Well, thank you for misleading me as I tried to post a comment!

I will try again:
Can they also sue Boehner for neglect of duty?

22044 on February 11, 2014 at 8:04 PM

Obama is NOT a Pharoah. Nor did he play one in a movie like Yul Brenner.

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2014 at 7:45 PM

Try telling that to Crying John Boehner.

VorDaj on February 11, 2014 at 8:04 PM

HillAREwe on February 11, 2014 at 8:00 PM

Heh.

Lanceman on February 11, 2014 at 8:04 PM

Can they also sue Boehner for neglect of duty?

22044 on February 11, 2014 at 8:04 PM

Boehner is so derelict in his duty that not only should he be sued but all his ancestors going back a thousand years should be name as co-defendents.

VorDaj on February 11, 2014 at 8:07 PM

“These individuals have no standing to sue. Since every action and non-action is viewed by this court to now be a tax, henceforth only the IRS can properly have standing in lawsuits.”

– Benedict Roberts, in a future 5-4 SCOTUS ruling should this make it that far

ShainS on February 11, 2014 at 8:07 PM

Meaningless theater.

Aplombed on February 11, 2014 at 7:44 PM

Good theater is never meaningless.

In DC, it can be the hottest ticket in town…

JohnGalt23 on February 11, 2014 at 8:10 PM

Next up, sue the Supreme Court for writing law from the bench – e.g. a mandate or fine was changed to a tax.

Ruckus_Tom on February 11, 2014 at 8:14 PM

Good theater is never meaningless.

They are at least making the perfidy of these criminals public. Speaking out may be dangerous but courageous.

crankyoldlady on February 11, 2014 at 8:14 PM

“These individuals have no standing to sue. Since every action and non-action is viewed by this court to now be a tax, henceforth only the IRS can properly have standing in lawsuits.”

– Benedict Roberts, in a future 5-4 SCOTUS ruling should this make it that far

ShainS on February 11, 2014 at 8:07 PM

THAT kind of ruling would be the point at which government buildings would be on fire in DC, starting with the SCOTUS building…

There would be no choice but Revolution.

Let’s hope it doesn’t happen.

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2014 at 8:15 PM

starting with the SCOTUS building…

Please don’t burn down the SCOTUS building. The front of that building is about the most beautiful I’ve seen. The top of the columns look like feathers. I forget what that kind of column is called. Brain cells are dying every day.

crankyoldlady on February 11, 2014 at 8:18 PM

THAT kind of ruling would be the point at which government buildings would be on fire in DC, starting with the SCOTUS building…

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2014 at 8:15 PM

Some like it hot and some sweat when the heat is on
Some feel the heat and decide that they can’t go on
Some like it hot, but you can’t tell how hot ’til you try
Some like it hot, so lets turn up the heat ’til they fry

VorDaj on February 11, 2014 at 8:20 PM

Not only does Paul have a policy agenda, he’s not above using grand flourishes to advance it.

Man, I love grand flourishes.

You know what else qualifies as a grand flourish.

It begins with a “B”.

It ends with a “P”.

And in the middle, is a “LIM”…

JohnGalt23 on February 11, 2014 at 8:21 PM

Paul’s shrewdly getting on board now, before it takes off, so that he’s in the middle of things as it moves up the legal food chain. He’s got a new website for the occasion too — DefendTheFourth.com, where you can enter your name and e-mail address to join his class-action suit. I wonder what other uses a presidential contender could find for a mailing list like that. (from article)

Yes, Rand is getting ahead of this and it will make Democrats look like total hypocrites if they don’t join in. Their loss if they don’t because folks ain’t liking this spyin’ noise.

Nape-wa-ste on February 11, 2014 at 8:23 PM

gophergirl on February 11, 2014 at 8:00 PM

Took the words right outta my mouth. Btw, good evening miss gopher.
I liked that about Cuccinelli as well.

fresh air on February 11, 2014 at 8:23 PM

Beware of drones Rand. We know his guy Obama and what he’s capable of.

44Magnum on February 11, 2014 at 8:24 PM

All I can say is the whole bleeding lot needs suing, and then stringing and then drawing, oh and lets chuck in a little quartering as well eh?!!!

Scrumpy on February 11, 2014 at 8:26 PM

“I’m surprised he doesn’t have more GOP wannabes joining him on it, frankly.”

I’m not. John Boner-boy and the rest of the RINO squad have totally given up on truth, justice, the American way, and whatever other principles you can think of. I understand not fighting battles you can’t win (a la the debt ceiling) but they’re deep in Quisling territory these days.

Paul 2016, or else head for the exits.

Gearbox on February 11, 2014 at 8:26 PM

At least he is trying! Ted Cruz is trying! Mike Lee is trying! All are out there and vocal. The rest of the Rs are rolling over and playing dead just waiting and waiting and waiting.

CoffeeLover on February 11, 2014 at 8:28 PM

Beware of drones Rand. We know his guy Obama and what he’s capable of.

44Magnum on February 11, 2014 at 8:24 PM

Consider that Kentucky (my native and home state) was the FIRST state called AGAINST His Imperial Majesty in both 2008/12 he might just NUKE us as punishment for that AND electing Rand Paul, one of maybe three Senators with any balls…

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2014 at 8:29 PM

44Magnum on February 11, 2014 at 8:24 PM

Drones yeah, thats another bloody Obama idea that needs doing away with an all…

What this man gets away with on adaily basis IS enough to impeach this prickly bastage…

Scrumpy on February 11, 2014 at 8:29 PM

“I’m surprised he doesn’t have more GOP wannabes joining him on it, frankly.”

I’m not. John Boner-boy and the rest of the RINO squad have totally given up on truth, justice, the American way, and whatever other principles you can think of. I understand not fighting battles you can’t win (a la the debt ceiling) but they’re deep in Quisling territory these days.

Paul 2016, or else head for the exits.

Gearbox on February 11, 2014 at 8:26 PM

Something we forget is these people aren’t just being cowardly to protect themselves. They have families. I don’t have anything to lose by speaking out but others do.

crankyoldlady on February 11, 2014 at 8:30 PM

crankyoldlady on February 11, 2014 at 8:18 PM

Corinthian columns. (I looked it up :)
I think they’re beautiful, too.

fresh air on February 11, 2014 at 8:32 PM

Drones yeah, thats another bloody Obama idea that needs doing away with an all…

What this man gets away with on adaily basis IS enough to impeach this prickly bastage…

Scrumpy on February 11, 2014 at 8:29 PM

Obama’s already WAY beyond mere Impeachment at this point. He should be tried for CAPITAL TREASON.

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2014 at 8:32 PM

crankyoldlady on February 11, 2014 at 8:30 PM

If they are too cowardly to stand up for what is right, then they need to get gone, why did they get in office in the forst place, to play musical chairs?

Get ‘em out if they won’t fight for the Constitution and the country and WE THE PEOPLE!!

I got no sympathy for these morons who sit on high dictating to ME!

Scrumpy on February 11, 2014 at 8:33 PM

Rest assured that this is true.

Schadenfreude on February 11, 2014 at 7:25 PM

Schadenfreude: In case you don’t have Greenwalds new site on Twitter:)
=======================================================================

https://twitter.com/the_intercept

canopfor on February 11, 2014 at 8:34 PM

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2014 at 8:32 PM

Yes, but baby steps I guess, who would go all out for treason?

Scrumpy on February 11, 2014 at 8:36 PM

canopfor on February 11, 2014 at 8:34 PM

More importantly, curling qualifying at midnight! :)

Lanceman on February 11, 2014 at 8:37 PM

Obama’s already WAY beyond mere Impeachment at this point. He should be tried for CAPITAL TREASON.

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2014 at 8:32 PM

I said as much on a thread the other day. I’ve been saying this for a long time. People looked at me like I was nutty…

fresh air on February 11, 2014 at 8:37 PM

Lanceman on February 11, 2014 at 8:04 PM

Whoa! That’s disturbing.

yaedon on February 11, 2014 at 8:38 PM

Rest assured that this is true.

Schadenfreude on February 11, 2014 at 7:25 PM

Ever since I heard about this on Mike Church this morning, and tho I kinda looked for this, I am so pleased you posted it!!

Thanks a million Schad!!

Scrumpy on February 11, 2014 at 8:39 PM

fresh air on February 11, 2014 at 8:23 PM

Good evening as well :)

Nothing is more unattractive than a wimpy man. BLECH!

gophergirl on February 11, 2014 at 8:41 PM

I said as much on a thread the other day. I’ve been saying this for a long time. People looked at me like I was nutty…

fresh air on February 11, 2014 at 8:37 PM

You need TWO witnesses for Capital Treason in the Constitution.

We have however many millions who watched the SOTU, PLUS hundreds of Congressmen and Senators, plus SCOTUS justices…

His speech was a public RENOUNCEMENT of his Oath of Office.

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2014 at 8:41 PM

Retweeted by K.M. Gallagher
Policy ‏@policy 10h

Today we’re proud to support The Day We Fight Back, to end mass surveillance. https://thedaywefightback.org + http://www.reformgovernmentsurveillance.com #transparency
===========================================================

Today, February 11th, 2014 is The Day We Fight Back against mass surveillance

https://thedaywefightback.org/international/

canopfor on February 11, 2014 at 8:43 PM

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2014 at 8:32 PM

Yes, but baby steps I guess, who would go all out for treason?

Scrumpy on February 11, 2014 at 8:36 PM

Not this DOJ for sure. Why not have a STATE charge him?

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2014 at 8:43 PM

I really like Rand, but what I know of his stance on immigration reform amnesty is a red flag to me.

Does anyone know of some nuance in his statements on immigration that I am missing? Are his libertarian proclivities just getting the better of him on that issue?

There is one thing about him that I really appreciate, though. Whether I agree with him on a particular issue or not, I think he is at a minimum dealing with the issue in good faith based on real principles.

yaedon on February 11, 2014 at 8:44 PM

gophergirl on February 11, 2014 at 8:41 PM

OMG isn’t that the truth.

CoffeeLover on February 11, 2014 at 8:46 PM

canopfor on February 11, 2014 at 8:34 PM

More importantly, curling qualifying at midnight! :)

Lanceman on February 11, 2014 at 8:37 PM

Lanceman: Midnight Eh,…the Witchy Hour,..(sarc):)

https://twitter.com/Sochi2014

https://twitter.com/curling

http://www.curlingzone.com/

canopfor on February 11, 2014 at 8:49 PM

yaedon on February 11, 2014 at 8:44 PM

Rand Paul stance on immigration from his website.

Immigration

gophergirl on February 11, 2014 at 8:50 PM

Rand Paul is full of crap.

rlwo2008 on February 11, 2014 at 8:52 PM

Yes, but baby steps I guess, who would go all out for treason?

Scrumpy on February 11, 2014 at 8:36 PM

Honestly, I think there are many people who would want to go all out and prosecute, but… there’s that barely-below-the-surface knowledge that such a move would ignite the fury of quite a large gathering of, shall we say, like-minded individuals?

By design, I say…

fresh air on February 11, 2014 at 8:54 PM

I’m delighted that Rand is doing this-but I still am not ready to vote for him in a presidential primary.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 11, 2014 at 8:58 PM

gophergirl on February 11, 2014 at 8:50 PM

That-and I still don’t trust that he won’t end up being an evil fruitcake like his dad, when it comes to Israel.

annoyinglittletwerp on February 11, 2014 at 9:01 PM

The only way it blows up on him is if the program is dismantled and then something literally blows up, and even then, it’s SCOTUS who’ll take the blame, not Paul.

Oh, goodie, I’m so relieved to know that if another couple thousand Americans get smoked in a terrorist attack it will be SCOTUS that gets the blame, and not St. Rand.

It sickens me to see so-called conservatives support a “policy agenda”, if that’s what you want to call it, so dear to the left, just because a Democrat happens to be in power. And it is disgusting to see that has-been Ken Cuccinelli, who is about as libertarian as the Pope, jump on this bandwagon in a pathetic attempt to stay in the limelight. Cuccinelli, who has never seen a sodomy law that he didn’t like, needs to get his priorities, as it were, straight.

Good politics? Since when is it good politics to weaken and endanger the country in order to play nice with lefties and Democrats? And the Tea Party is on board with this? Making the Republican Party more welcoming to dumb hipsters and people who are worried that the government is going to catch them watching animal porn? Good grief! I just don’t get it.

Joseph K on February 11, 2014 at 9:04 PM

Awesome! Now on to drafting articles of impeachment.

John the Libertarian on February 11, 2014 at 9:12 PM

ConstantineXI on February 11, 2014 at 7:35 PM

I’ve seen you around lately and look fw to getting to know you….

OmahaConservative on February 11, 2014 at 7:39 PM

Debra Kerr says it best.

bettycooper on February 11, 2014 at 9:14 PM

gophergirl on February 11, 2014 at 8:50 PM

Thanks, gophergirl. His website says all the right things, but he has said before (e. g. here) that he is okay with legalization as long as border security comes first.

I guess I would like to know if he is for legalization after border security in general (as this says) or if his position is purely a reaction to the terrible Senate bill of last year.

I suspect he is actually for legalization after border security as an olive branch to Hispanic folks (and hopefully heartfelt conviction of some sort). However, I think that position is a really bad idea both on principle and politically. Politically, once illegal immigrants are legalized, I don’t see any way our courts would stop them from being naturalized (the “second-class citizen” refrain in the echo chamber would be deafening). On principle, illegal immigrants’ first acts on our soil were the breaking our laws; therefore, they should have to go back to their home country and go through regular channels to immigrate here legally. (This is where I agree that our current immigration policy is too onerous for most people to go through regular channels and should actually be overhauled, but I digress.)

The point on principle is what Rand’s website says he wants, but his speeches and interviews suggest otherwise. Heck, I might be willing to go along with legalization after several years of real border security, but until I see real results on enforcement I will continue to be a hardliner.

Sorry to go OT for so long.

yaedon on February 11, 2014 at 9:20 PM

Corinthian columns. (I looked it up :)
I think they’re beautiful, too.

fresh air on February 11, 2014 at 8:32 PM


Columns, eh?
I thought you could only get rich Corinthian leather.

PolAgnostic on February 11, 2014 at 9:39 PM

I would be willing to give the NSA some benefit of the doubt if the had not turned into the bureaucratic hot mess they have turned into. They now have too many employees, too much money and it appears too much time on their hands.

People who defend the NSA need to realize that Snowden hurt in two different ways:

(1) He showed the NSA is spying on Americans.

and

(2) He showed they are inept because Snowden himself was able to run off with all sorts of classified material and is now hanging out in a Russian hotel somewhere. Obviously they seemed to have forget what the “S” in their title means.

SO they are worse than a tyrant, they are a blundering tyrant.

William Eaton on February 11, 2014 at 9:40 PM

Retweeted by K.M. Gallagher
Policy ‏@policy 10h

Today we’re proud to support The Day We Fight Back, to end mass surveillance. https://thedaywefightback.org + http://www.reformgovernmentsurveillance.com #transparency
===========================================================

Today, February 11th, 2014 is The Day We Fight Back against mass surveillance

https://thedaywefightback.org/international/

canopfor on February 11, 2014 at 8:43 PM

Standing with Daily Kos and Occupy?

thebrokenrattle on February 11, 2014 at 9:59 PM

PolAgnostic on February 11, 2014 at 9:39 PM

lol.. I remember those commercials.

fresh air on February 11, 2014 at 10:01 PM

I would be willing to give the NSA some benefit of the doubt if…

William Eaton on February 11, 2014 at 9:40 PM

That’s where I and many, many conservative and otherwise patriotic Americans went wrong after 9/11. The fathers of our nation realized that ANY government with ANY power will abuse that power. That’s why small, limited government is what they designed. Limited power equals limited abuse.

The NSA’s vast data collecting abilities is antithetical and damaging to our constitution regardless of good intentions, who is in charge, or how responsibly the power is wielded.

yaedon on February 11, 2014 at 10:04 PM

Good grief! I just don’t get it.

Joseph K on February 11, 2014 at 9:04 PM

He said, to absolutely no one’s surprise…

JohnGalt23 on February 11, 2014 at 10:32 PM

thebrokenrattle on February 11, 2014 at 9:59 PM

Allow St. Thomas More to explain the concept to you.

If even the Communist Party of America were working to defend the 4th Amendment, I would welcome their help, because those protections are our protections, too.

Inkblots on February 12, 2014 at 12:16 AM

Part of the problem, Joseph, is that the power of the administrative state has grown far out of proportion to what it should be. I’ve been a conservative since Reagan, and it isn’t only lefties who believe that the amount of surveillance that our government is doing on us is becoming worrisome indeed. One doesn’t have to be paranoid about its abuse (although I wouldn’t call this worry “paranoid” under the current administration) to believe that it needs to be rolled back or (at least) publicly debated.

How can we make decisions as citizens about the rightness or wrongness of such programs if their extent is kept unknown to us? Sure, there’s a lot that DOES need to be kept secret, but now I am moving toward the view that it might be better to err on the side of openness, especially since government bureaucracies will seek to keep things hidden so that they may act with less scrutiny.

This isn’t to say that someone like Snowden shouldn’t be prosecuted. Given what little I know about him, my first thought is to try him, hang him and then put up statues to him. Try him and hang him to discourage persons from imitating him unless they are willing to make the ultimate sacrifice to do so. Put up statues to him because it is his work that has opened the eyes of many, including myself, to the extent to which our government is spying on us.

philosoph0123 on February 12, 2014 at 12:25 AM

Please don’t burn down the SCOTUS building. The front of that building is about the most beautiful I’ve seen. The top of the columns look like feathers. I forget what that kind of column is called. Brain cells are dying every day.

crankyoldlady on February 11, 2014 at 8:18 PM

Corinthian columns. (I looked it up :)
I think they’re beautiful, too.

fresh air on February 11, 2014 at 8:32 PM

When I was in the sixth grade, we went on a field trip where the teacher pointed out different styles of architecture in the city. We were shown the three basic styles of column tops: Doric (plain, squared), Ionic (big rolls), and Corinthian (that “feathered” look). This lesson stuck with me all my life like almost no other.

ncinca on February 12, 2014 at 9:25 AM

The Oath of office for all Federal civilian employees (other than the President):

I do solemnly swear that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God.

There really are terribly few members of either House of Congress who function in obedience to this Oath. They behave as if an Oath has no weight of merit. They are dead wrong. Some may say that these actions taken by Cucinelli and Paul are meaningless, but in truth, it is their first duty to do exactly this when they believe that a branch of the Federal Government is acting contrary to the Constitution.

Never naysay someone who is obeying the law, even if you believe they are acting for purely political reasons. I don’t believe that about Rand Paul, he’s likely as flawed a human as any other member of Congress, but by all appearances he takes his Oath seriously.

To not support that is a mistake.

Freelancer on February 12, 2014 at 8:41 PM