Paul Ryan: Under our plan, illegals will have probationary legal status while the border is being secured

posted at 3:21 pm on January 29, 2014 by Allahpundit

We’re still waiting for Boehner and the House leadership to release their new “principles” on immigration, but I think this tells us most of what we need to know.

Pay close attention at around 1:40 of the clip. Lefty Greg Sargent thinks it’s significant. I agree.

Ryan confirms GOP “principles” will include legal status for the 11 million, but he also says this will be a ”probationary status” to make sure the 11 million will not be “preferenced over people who did follow the laws.” It’s important to have confirmation that there will be a way out of the shadows. But the probationary period idea is problematic. Details will matter, but it would probably allow for people to get the right to work up front, but they could be kicked off of probationary status if certain security benchmarks aren’t met.

Advocates see this as bad policy: Why would undocumenteds step forward, if they know they can lose work status and get deported later because of nothing that they did, but only because Washington failed to decide certain metrics had been fulfilled?

However, Ryan also says the undocumented will be allowed to work as part of “probationary” status before security benchmarks are met. “You can be on probation,” Ryan says, “while the border is being secured.”

Solution: No one comes out of the shadows until the border’s secured. The status quo on legalization holds in the meantime. There’s no rational reason why a country needs to make concessions to illegals before, or concurrent with, strengthening its borders, just as there’s no rational reason to think the GOP would use the security trigger to delay legalization ad infinitum. Everyone understands the demographic realities of the last election. Everyone knows how eager the Republican establishment is to attract Latino voters. And everyone knows how gleefully Democrats will demagogue them for dragging their feet on legalization while the border saga is playing out. Left to their own devices, Republicans would legalize illegals sooner rather than later. There’s no similar reason to believe that Democrats, left to their own devices, would eventually get around to tackling the border once legalization happened.

But I digress. “Probationary” legalization while security improvements are being made is the same nonsense in the Gang of Eight proposal, and it’s unacceptable for the same reason. Namely, in reality, there’ll be nothing probationary about it. Once “probation” is granted and illegals gain a temporary right to stay in the U.S., Congress will never muster the will to rescind that right even if the new border security efforts fall apart (or, more likely, if Obama simply refuses to carry them out). It’ll be like any other entitlement — once it’s in effect, congressional cowardice at upsetting people’s expectations will ensure that it’s with us forever. If you think the left’s immigration demagoguery is bad now, imagine what it’d be like in the summer of 2016, with border enforcement going nowhere and some Republicans in Congress whispering about canceling the conditional “probation” that was granted to illegals as a result. It’ll never happen. “Probationary” legalization is permanent legalization, period, which is why it can’t be granted until after the border’s been measurably improved. And the left will never agree to that because they don’t want the border improved; how will there be another new influx of Democratic voters over the next 20 years if the border becomes too solid to breach? They want the people here now legalized without any hard conditions and they also want to make sure that there’s not so much pressure on DHS to upgrade security that the 2045 amnesty will have to be canceled. Sounds like Boehner and Paul Ryan are going to make their dream come true.

Sargent’s also right about the path to citizenship here. Ryan mentions that there won’t be a “special” path, but near the end he imagines legalized illegals being able to apply for green cards eventually through currently existing channels, the penultimate step to citizenship. You already knew the leadership was leaning this way, but now here’s the proof. Everyone excited?


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I just don’t see any shame in living to fight another day.

mike_NC9 on January 29, 2014 at 7:32 PM

That day never comes, though, does it? And then when it occurs to you that it’s getting serious, guess what – you should’ve been fighting for a long time already.

If I never hear another person suggest the GOP and/or conservatives should ‘live to fight another day’, well… I won’t be sorely tempted to kick someone’s ignorant butt at that particular moment.

Midas on January 29, 2014 at 10:49 PM

If you want to just blame illegal immigrants and take no responsibility, then I guess that’s your right.

mike_NC9 on January 29, 2014 at 10:10 PM

You know what, pal? You can GFY with that bullshit. I’ll not be roped into ‘taking responsibility’ for something I’ve been fighting tooth and nail against forever any more than I’ll ‘take responsibility’ for Obamacare and a host of other things that are SOLELY THE RESPONSIBILITY OF THE F*CKWITS DOING THIS CRAP AGAINST OUR WISHES.

Midas on January 29, 2014 at 10:52 PM

mike_NC9 on January 29, 2014 at 7:32 PM

We can’t even get them to secure the border, no many how many times they vote on it and how much money is alotted. There is zero reason to reward lawlessness.

Cindy Munford on January 29, 2014 at 7:58 PM

Nice to see you two have hit it off (snerk). Mike, it sounded at first like you were on the wrong website; I was going to suggest Single Match, but now that I think of it you might find common cause with Jake the Gooser, dumbpartisan and some of the other circus animals.

The Bummer News: David Frum doesn’t blog here.

Jaibones on January 29, 2014 at 10:56 PM

Midas on January 29, 2014 at 10:52 PM

My favorite acronym…tears of mirth.

Jaibones on January 29, 2014 at 10:57 PM

As for ass-clown Paul Ryan, I snort every time I think of him and little Greasy Louie Gutierrez from Chicago, BFFs.

Ryan seriously thinks his bold, stupid, liberal move on amnesty is going to turn the 75% nitwit/socialist Hispanic race-victim vote into a massive pro-Ryan movement that will carry him into the Presidency, rather than continue to vote for, say … kook-left twits like Greasy Louie.

This is really what he thinks. I almost feel bad for mocking someone this stupid.

Jaibones on January 29, 2014 at 11:05 PM

kim,
I don’t need my conservative bonafides validated by you or anyone else. Just simply pointing out that racism does play a part in the objection to immigration reform. If you don’t believe so, you’re naive. The majority of Americans want immigration reform. Period. Obviously those that support the status quo are here in force and not all are racially motivated but it’s time to break the impasse.

mike_NC9 on January 29, 2014 at 9:46 PM

Yes, we saw the call to racism. You answered. (or were trolled, whichever you prefer)

Define “immigration reform” as to the agreeable majority. It’s probably not the same definition of said majority.

The “not racially motivated”, as you so kindly state, are not interested in Chamberlain style impasse breaking. And that’s what it will take to interest the liberals.

Always has, always will. To believe anything else *is* being naive.

kim roy on January 29, 2014 at 11:11 PM

If I never hear another person suggest the GOP and/or conservatives should ‘live to fight another day’, well… I won’t be sorely tempted to kick someone’s ignorant butt at that particular moment.

Midas on January 29, 2014 at 10:49 PM

That would have been me with the last election, but imho that was the “another day” and now it’s going to be painful and ugly to get back on track, but maybe that’s what some people need.

kim roy on January 29, 2014 at 11:15 PM

Midas…GFY?…great retort you empty headed animal food trough wiper. I fart in your general direction. Your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries.

mike_NC9 on January 29, 2014 at 11:24 PM

The GOP will betray you

True_King on January 29, 2014 at 11:25 PM

Jaibones on January 29, 2014

I get the gist of your comment but I’ll have you know I’ve been a “member” of this online community since the pre Captain era. If it makes you feel more like one of the gang to pick on the “new” guy, so be it.
Like most people here, I care deeply for this country and it pains me to see us so divided. I consider myself very conservative but I follow my own path and try my best to espouse my heartfelt opinions without stomping on others. If I have offended anyone I do apologize,

mike_NC9 on January 29, 2014 at 11:44 PM

Like most people here, I care deeply for this country and it pains me to see us so divided.

mike_NC9 on January 29, 2014 at 11:44 PM

Keep implying that most of those that don’t agree with you are racist. I’m sure that will heal the divisions.

besser tot als rot on January 29, 2014 at 11:54 PM

Why can’t these knuckleheads just get it through their heads that only 3% of the US thinks this is a top priority?

RINOs caving to the Chamber of Crony Capitalists, the progressives are catering to 35 to 50 million new voters who want entitlements that we can’t afford, and Obamacare exempts illegals from the employer penalty that comes into play (finally) in 2015, unless “de Furer” unilaterally (with his pen) defers it again – thus shoving even more LEGAL residents and US citizens out of the job market.

Words just fail me in trying to express my utter contempt at these people. I loathe and despise this ruling class establishment. Just disgusting.

karenhasfreedom on January 29, 2014 at 11:56 PM

Ryan can suck eggs.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRDKYslo5_A

Murphy9 on January 30, 2014 at 12:00 AM

kim roy on January 29, 2014

There are many reasons people support immigration reform…and many reasons that people are against it. Too many to name in fact. It’s different for everyone. I’m not in anyway obsessed with the racist element of immigration reform. I just find it very interesting that people are so willing to assign motivations for every possible thought process for everything but when it comes to the possibility that someone is against immigration reform because of racism…well…”GFY you idiot moron liberal!!!”
If you honestly believe that race is not a factor…ever…then please just say so. If you just hate Mexicans…say that. Just don’t try to say it’s never a factor and then try to convince someone you’re objective about it. That’s all.

mike_NC9 on January 30, 2014 at 12:03 AM

how many socks does this twag have?

Murphy9 on January 30, 2014 at 12:05 AM

besser tot als rot on January 29, 2014 at 11:54 PM

Exactly where did I say that?

mike_NC9 on January 30, 2014 at 12:06 AM

Democrats are much more racist than Repubs This is about race to democrats. They use race diversity as a way to distract from the fact that they are totalitarian. They have no diversity of thought just color.

Mormontheman on January 30, 2014 at 12:15 AM

Not Sure that I undertsAnd what RyaN iS trying to Accomplish here. He was a coNServAtive darling but Now it Seems thAt somethiNg haS chAnged.

/subliminal super secret encryption.

But seriously, WTH is going on with the repubes? Why are they pushing amnesty now?!?!?!

BoxHead1 on January 30, 2014 at 12:48 AM

Amnesty happens and I’m done.

I just won’t vote anymore because it just won’t make any difference.

If the game is rigged the only smart play is to not play at all.

Screw them. Screw them all.

trapeze on January 30, 2014 at 1:05 AM

Its not an immigration problem. That ended in 1986… supposedly. Its a migration problem. Just the raw numbers are mind boggling.

oryguncon on January 30, 2014 at 1:08 AM

This is another case of the Washington DC dance. You know, Texas two step. Many moves, no movement forward. Strictly an inside game for the donor class. No one will really put a for real immigration reform bill, and even if they do, the Dem’s will kill it. They need immigration as a issue. Given that the Democratic party, has little else going for them in this election cycle.

flackcatcher on January 30, 2014 at 1:16 AM

This is another case of the Washington DC dance. You know, Texas two step. Many moves, no movement forward. Strictly an inside game for the donor class. No one will really put a for real immigration reform bill, and even if they do, the Dem’s will kill it. They need immigration as a issue. Given that the Democratic party, has little else going for them in this election cycle.

flackcatcher on January 30, 2014 at 1:16 AM

I’ve heard that before. And since ’86 it’s been true. But they got close in 2006 and now it seems like a done deal.
If you end up being right then it’s +1000 HP and 20 rounds ammo for you (on HA pvp servers).

BoxHead1 on January 30, 2014 at 1:22 AM

Hell no. The USA is barely hanging on as it is. This must be what a death knell sounds like.

Theophile on January 30, 2014 at 1:35 AM

Herman Munster needs to punish Eddie Munster.

BuckeyeSam on January 30, 2014 at 2:30 AM

Hell no. The USA is barely hanging on as it is. This must be what a death knell sounds like.

Theophile on January 30, 2014 at 1:35 AM

We are at the ‘Bread and Circus’ level now. The coming collapse will be swift and violent.Gird your loins everyone.

celtic warrior on January 30, 2014 at 5:09 AM

How many people here have actually tried contacting him rather than just venting here?

Zip +4 for Kenosha is 53140-3432.

My e-mail stated that if he commits the country to giving “probationary amnesty” to illegal immigrants he will guarantee that he gets primaried in the next election cycle and I personally promise that whomever does run against him will have my financial backing to the maximum amount allowed by law.

V7_Sport on January 30, 2014 at 5:57 AM

V7_Sport on January 30, 2014 at 5:57 AM

Amen brother.

celtic warrior on January 30, 2014 at 6:10 AM

How many people here have actually tried contacting him rather than just venting here?

V7_Sport on January 30, 2014 at 5:57 AM

Neither Ryan or Boehner have had their office phones answered in many months. I assume this is because 100% of their incoming calls are vitriolic opposition to amnesty.

They get it…they just don’t care.

Jaibones on January 30, 2014 at 6:23 AM

There are many reasons people support immigration reform…and many reasons that people are against it. Too many to name in fact.

mike_NC9 on January 30, 2014 at 12:03 AM

Gosh, thanks for stopping by to enlighten us. David Frum called … he needs you back at his blog, stat. No one else was reading it.

Jaibones on January 30, 2014 at 6:26 AM

If you want to just blame illegal immigrants and take no responsibility, then I guess that’s your right.

If I have offended anyone I do apologize,

mike_NC9 on January 29, 2014 at 11:44 PM

Going to work now. I will check in periodically looking for your fascinating reconciliation of these two statements.

Jaibones on January 30, 2014 at 6:31 AM

NO AMNESTY RYAN!

TX-96 on January 30, 2014 at 6:32 AM

Just simply pointing out that racism does play a part in the objection to immigration reform. If you don’t believe so, you’re naive…
 
mike_NC9 on January 29, 2014 at 9:46 PM

 
+1, and I couldn’t agree with you more.
 
It’s shocking that, in 2014, people are willing to openly tell 60% of black men and their families that they want to actively destroy their potential for wealth accumulation and job opportunities that previous generations fought and died for.

rogerb on January 30, 2014 at 6:39 AM

The chief GOP strategy – lay on your back and piss in the air.

Viator on January 30, 2014 at 6:39 AM

What part of the word “illegal”, don’t you idiots understand?
My take.

kingsjester on January 30, 2014 at 6:45 AM

Money talks and bullsh!t walks,Ozzie Myers circa ABSCAM.

celtic warrior on January 30, 2014 at 6:53 AM

Republican National Committee chairman Reince Priebus said Wednesday that there’s a “general consensus” in his party that something big needs to happen on overhauling the country’s immigration laws and that more specifics would be unveiled this week at House Republicans’ annual retreat.

I am, for the moment anyway, simply a Republican.

I am not any type of “extremist”.

I am not xenophobic.

I am not a bigot.

I am not even a member of the “Tea Party”.

I am simply a pragmatic person whose family immigrated to this great country and is tired of seeing my neighbors and friends economically suffering.

There is no “consensus” on immigration. But there is on jobs- what about that Reince?

Mr. Priebus is a bumbling, incompetent liar and he has shown that during the last election. How he remains in a party position of authority is stunning.

It is also why I, like thousands of others, are just about finished with the Republican Party of Boehner, Cantor, McConnell, McCarthy and Cantor.

Marcus Traianus on January 30, 2014 at 7:10 AM

When I was a marine in Vietnam I continually listened to Bobby Hatfield’s ‘unchained melody’.

celtic warrior on January 30, 2014 at 7:27 AM

I only regret that I can only leave this complicit co-ruling party but once!

Don L on January 30, 2014 at 7:31 AM

I’m not sure we would ever be able to elect someone that meets your standard of conservatism anyway. I’m afraid you are just making it tougher to fight the left…sadly.

mike_NC9 on January 29, 2014 at 6:52 PM

this is standard – vote GOP no matter what they do and how liberal they act nonsense.

Amnesty – “oh, we couldn’t fight it, so let’s just give in”.

Increased spending? – “oh, we couldn’t fight it, so let’s just give in.”

Insreased gov’t? “oh, we couldn’t fight it, so let’s just give in.”

When, exactly, do you fight the left? You and people like you never do. You somehow believe that supporting the GOP no matter what it does is the same thing as fighting the left. It isn’t. Particularly when the GOP is doing the heavy lifting for the left. As it is attempting to do with amnesty.

I guess your definition of “fight” (i.e., roll over) is not the same as most people’s.

Monkeytoe on January 30, 2014 at 7:54 AM

That’s what I meant when I said this issue is tearing us apart. There are forces on both sides that have allowed this to happen. So in a sense you can say that we created this problem together and that’s how we will solve it. If the majority of Americans wanted to forcibly remove all illegal immigrants and their anchor children, we would have elected government officials that are committed to doing that. But we have not done so. I think we need to let folks like Ryan come up with some new border enforcement and move forward.

mike_NC9 on January 29, 2014 at 8:20 PM

typical lefty dishonesty. Can’t win an argument? Create a straw man. See – here’s your straw man. You imply this is a debate between giving illegals amnesty and “rounding them all up”. That has been debunked so many times as to be laughable. But, of course, you have no other argument to make so you keep making it.

As I always ask the left – how can you believe you are arguing for the correct position if you must always lie to support your position? Doesn’t it ever occur to you that if your position was correct, you would not need to lie?

I’m so sick of you pro-amnesty people’s utter dishonesty. You have no argument. If you did, you would have made it by now. You haven’t. Endlessly repeating “but we can’t round them all up” is not an argument.

Here is the answer to that vapid stupidity. Fine. We can’t round them all up and deport them all. That does not mean we have to give them legal status. There is no rational argument as to why it is in the U.S.’s interest to give the illegals legal status. Leave them in the status quo. We owe them nothing. there is no moral imperative to give them legal status. They chose to come here illegally knowing all of the burdens that entails. that was their choice. End of story.

Good lord. At least try to be honest once in your life.

Monkeytoe on January 30, 2014 at 8:02 AM

Just simply pointing out that racism does play a part in the objection to immigration reform. If you don’t believe so, you’re naive…

mike_NC9 on January 29, 2014 at 9:46 PM

Ahhh your hitting all of the liberal tricks.

First you dishonestly argue straw-men. Then you call anyone who disagrees with you racist.

Perfect.

again, if you had an argument based on logic and facts you would make that argument. Instead, you dishonestly argue straw-men and call people racist, admitting you have no argument and are wrong.

congratulations. Go back to the DailyKOS where you belong.

Monkeytoe on January 30, 2014 at 8:04 AM

If you want to just blame illegal immigrants and take no responsibility, then I guess that’s your right.

mike_NC9 on January 29, 2014 at 10:10 PM

Who is responsible, for what? We as Americans are responsible that all of South and Central American countries are lefty shit holes?

Really? We are responsible for the fact that instead of changing their own countries for the better, millions of people come to America illegally? Really?

So – we are responsible for the choices everyone else makes all over the world? And we must allow everyone who wants to move to America do so?

That is your “thinking” on this subject?

And if we think that is a bad idea, we are racist – right?

Idiot.

Monkeytoe on January 30, 2014 at 8:09 AM

Paul Ryan is LYYYYYYYYYING.

What a despicable bunch these republicans are.

THEY are just donor whores, no better than a hussy on the side of 5th Street leaning over to a customer in their car.

Ugh!!!

PappyD61 on January 30, 2014 at 8:14 AM

You guys don’t get it, it’s over.

celtic warrior on January 30, 2014 at 8:25 AM

Neither Ryan or Boehner have had their office phones answered in many months. I assume this is because 100% of their incoming calls are vitriolic opposition to amnesty.

They get it…they just don’t care.

Jaibones on January 30, 2014 at 6:23 AM

I talked to Boehner’s office last week. Someone answers their phones in DC when congress is in session during regular business hours. Just in case they are blocking you because you are not in their district dial *67 to stop your number from coming up on their display.
I just sent an e-mail to Ryan’s office.
This is a good organization to belong to, They keep you up to date on things like this. If folks would show that they are absolutely serious about this instead of swearing off the GOP and promising to light their hair on fire here it would probably be a dead issue.

V7_Sport on January 30, 2014 at 8:37 AM

Many excellent comments

It’ll be like any other entitlement — once it’s in effect, congressional cowardice at upsetting people’s expectations will ensure that it’s with us forever. If you think the left’s immigration demagoguery is bad now, imagine what it’d be like in the summer of 2016, with border enforcement going nowhere and some Republicans in Congress whispering about canceling the conditional “probation” that was granted to illegals as a result. It’ll never happen. “Probationary” legalization is permanent legalization, period, which is why it can’t be granted until after the border’s been measurably improved. And the left will never agree to that because they don’t want the border improved; how will there be another new influx of Democratic voters over the next 20 years if the border becomes too solid to breach? AP

Could not have been said better

In case anyone notices, there is zero difference between the current shell game, and all the previous immigration reform shell games

Ryan seriously thinks his bold, stupid, liberal move on amnesty is going to turn the 75% nitwit/socialist Hispanic race-victim vote into a massive pro-Ryan movement that will carry him into the Presidency, rather than continue to vote for, say … kook-left twits like Greasy Louie.
Jaibones on January 29, 2014 at 11:05 PM

Correct. Boehner and the Club also believe this which is why Ryan has been staged to be the frontman from the beginning

They are positioning pro amnesty company woman Caty Univision McMorris as the next Rubio. They ‘spread the word’ she was ‘tough’ on the subject. Meanwhile
In GOP leadership race, McMorris Rodgers has the dough behind her

Cathy McMorris Rodgers: Immigration a ‘priority’ for this year

Pamphlet Pushing Immigration Reform Distributed to House GOP Members
She is a RINO creation, handing out the talking points on the new plan, while pretending she didnt know anything. She has the same blank slate they set up to push Rubio. Deja vu

And they are building up Huckabee to be a primary spoiler just like the last time round. Word of mouth, baloney
Same game, same players. I intend to fight. The public will act when it learns

entagor on January 30, 2014 at 9:31 AM

Not No, but Hell No.

Ryan is done in my book.

brainpimp on January 30, 2014 at 9:41 AM

close it up Ed

celtic warrior on January 30, 2014 at 10:39 AM

Jaibones on January 30, 2014 at 6:23 AM

A lot of the congress folks will not let an email with an outside state address write them. I like to find a Walmart in their district and use that address.

Cindy Munford on January 30, 2014 at 10:42 AM

How can a man like Paul Ryan have a near mastery on fiscal responsibility issues yet be tone deaf on an issue that negatively impacts said fiscal responsibility?

Remember Simpson-Mazzoli! Enforce the current law! I am so disgusted with the business interests buying the GOP and the government freeloaders of the Democrats selling out the American citizenry.

It is so frustrating that we can’t get them to do what is already the law. They throw up these sob stories about children here without any fault of their own and that is supposed to excuse the whole mess.

Businesses, you want the cheap labor? Pay for it! Sponsor the workers, pay the school tuition, and pay for the support services. You want to import labor when there are millions of Americans out of work? You have to justify it. Why should the American people continue to subsidize the farm industry when it is mostly corporations not the family farm running them? Enough of this!

Dems, I know will screw me over but the GOP are truly despicable as they talk as a friend but are total Judases. I have more respect for an avowed political enemy than a supposed “friend” who betrays me.

Go F yourself, GOP! You have lost my support.

islandman78 on January 30, 2014 at 11:47 AM

Go F yourself, GOP! You have lost my support.

islandman78 on January 30, 2014 at 11:47 AM

How would they know?
Here:

MEMO: IMMIGRATION AND THE GOP AGENDA JANUARY 29, 2014
TO: HOUSE REPUBLICAN COLLEAGUES FROM: RANKING MEMBER JEFF SESSIONS

President Obama—after five years of openly and aggressively defying federal immigration law—is now demanding that House Republicans adopt an immigration plan he has no intention of enforcing. Republicans must end the lawlessness—not surrender to it—and they must defend the legitimate interests of millions of struggling American workers.
Attached to this memo are the key findings from my staff on the Budget and Judiciary Committees regarding the negative impact that the immigration proposals moving through Congress would have on American workers, taxpayers, and the rule of law. You will also find objective polling data—not misleading polls from special interests—demonstrating the depth to which these measures are repudiated by working and middle class voters from all backgrounds. And finally, included is a summary document of the opposition from conservative thought leaders to the proposals under consideration…

Read the rest at the link, the people in the GOP like Jeff Sessions are the only thing standing against a full open doors immigration policy. The House Republican retreat in Cambridge, Md. begins today, and whether or not the caucus decides to tackle immigration reform will be a topic of discussion. It would be pretty great if they were told not to go there by their constituents.

V7_Sport on January 30, 2014 at 11:57 AM

How can a man like Paul Ryan have a near mastery on fiscal responsibility issues yet be tone deaf on an issue that negatively impacts said fiscal responsibility?

islandman78 on January 30, 2014 at 11:47 AM

Perhaps you’re forgetting his recent partnership with Patty Murray.

Dunedainn on January 30, 2014 at 1:03 PM

How can a man like Paul Ryan have a near mastery on fiscal responsibility issues yet be tone deaf on an issue that negatively impacts said fiscal responsibility?
islandman78 on January 30, 2014 at 11:47 AM

He cant

He knows the impact.

Therefore you know what kind of near mastery he possesses

Go F yourself, GOP! You have lost my support.

islandman78 on January 30, 2014 at 11:47 AM

I could not have said it as better

entagor on January 30, 2014 at 3:48 PM

They pulled out the brass knuckles intentionally

They timed it for SOTU for maximum effect

Now if they ‘back off’ under public pressure; how do you vote for their guys in the coming election? How could you believe them?

Vote in their guys, and when they are sworn in, they will be free to turn on you, since they will have Obama to sign the bills

They pulled this stunt before. McCain promised ‘never again’

How’d that lie go?

You have to assume they know they are burying the party. If they gain amnesty now, they think they will have a new party. If they drop amnesty they will pick it up after the filing deadline. at that point, if they gain amnesty they can die rich, rewarded by the richest men in the world, and they will own the rubble of the GOP, a small price for joining the new masters. They won’t have to pretend anymore that they are servants to the morons who show up at the conventions

entagor on January 30, 2014 at 4:03 PM

entagor on January 30, 2014 at 4:03 PM

Which is why (among many other reasons) I advocate a conservative general strike of the federal 2014 elections. Let them try and win without conservatives, see how that works for them.

Their choice will then be a) decide conservative support is not worth it and move left to compete with dems for all of the left vote; or b) actually act in line with their fundraising and campaign promises and rhetoric and act conservative. And before the usual suspects call me a “truecon” who can’t live in reality – I’m not talking about the GOP doing every red-meat thing conservatives want. I’m talking about doing what they promise during general elections (i.e., the things they campaigned on and won on), specifically:

1) opposing any kind of amnesty;
2) reducing spending.

The people who claim we can’t expect the GOP to act conservative ignore that these GOP elected officials almost all ran on pledges to do the above 2 things and won. Therefore, asking them to do those 2 things is hardly being an unreasonable “truecon”.

If they won’t do those 2 things – what is the point of ever voting for the GOP?

Monkeytoe on January 30, 2014 at 4:29 PM

Do any of these politicians ever look at the stats that the illegals cost the State of California? Millions and billions and they want more and the left is ready to give them more. Make English the official language of the USA, no drivers license unless you speak read and write English. How do they read road condition signs? There’s more to driving than reading speed zone numbers.

mixplix on January 30, 2014 at 4:37 PM

And then what, Congressman????

You passed a law in 2006 to fix the border and didn’t fix it.

MN J on January 30, 2014 at 7:34 PM

While the border is secured?

What the hell is that even supposed to mean?

The problem is not border security. The problem is that illegals are able to settle in to a comfortable existence here once they make it across the border. As long as illegal immigration is an attractive proposition, trying to keep illegals out is an exercise in futility. The US government spends immense sums trying to keep illicit drugs out. Yet they’re still coming through. The same will be true of illegal aliens.

We need to secure not the border, but the entire country.

If illegals couldn’t find work, under the table or otherwise, couldn’t get a place to live, couldn’t drive a car, couldn’t enroll their kids in school, etc, etc, then we wouldn’t have an illegal alien problem because almost no one would bother trying to immigrate here illegally.

Destroy the incentive to immigrate here illegally, and illegal immigration will virtually cease.

This continuous talk about “securing” our borders is a deliberate distraction and an insult to the intelligence of the American people.

The people peddling this nonsense should be tried for treason.

leereyno on January 31, 2014 at 7:15 AM

NO!

scboy on February 2, 2014 at 8:31 AM

Which is why (among many other reasons) I advocate a conservative general strike of the federal 2014 elections. Let them try and win without conservatives, see how that works for them.
Monkeytoe on January 30, 2014 at 4:29 PM

Chief among those reasons: You are a democrat working to get socialists elected and you are just here to get the right to cut it’s own that.

Staying at home on election day is stupid. Flat out dumb. Don’t pay attention to the Mobys who have infested this site to sew defeatism, patriots fight for their country, they don’t kay down and let it get run into the ground.

V7_Sport on February 2, 2014 at 2:09 PM

A few things to keep in mind. We are talking about people who are ALREADY HERE. They are also already working. I am not sure what people are expecting, really. There is NEVER going to be a mass roundup and deportation of these people. Not ever. It just isn’t going to ever happen. So then you have to ask yourself how you deal with them. Simply putting your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes and pretending they don’t exist doesn’t fix anything. In fact, it makes things WORSE.

I am still waiting for the far right wing of the Republican party to grow up. The petulant child approach to immigration reform isn’t going to work. In fact, if these people had valid work permits they might go HOME when there is no work for them. And chances are, if they went home they would find it EASIER to get work in Mexico where unemployment is around 4.5% — nearly HALF the US unemployment rate.

Immigration from Mexico is now a net zero. The problem many are complaining about no longer exists. Mexico has faster economic growth and lower unemployment than the US has. In fact, the number of Americans moving to Mexico is accelerating. Americans now account for over 75% of all foreigners living in Mexico and that number is increasing. In fact, around half a million CHILDREN of US citizens brought by their parents are now living in Mexico.

Many people are fighting a battle that no longer exists. They are operating on views formed when the problem was much different than today. Why would someone want to flee a country that has under 5% unemployment for a place with over 8%?

crosspatch on February 2, 2014 at 6:56 PM

My own proposal is that the fed govt place a $50 bounty on the head of every illegal alien or foreigner that has overstayed his visa, with a 3 strikes clause making reentry after deportation a capital crime. Our country would be illegal alien-free within probably 12 months, at very low expense, and very likely with the help of the legal immigrant population (who wouldn’t turn in their lawbreaking kin for $50 in places like CA, NY, and the southern border?).

TXJenny on February 2, 2014 at 10:00 PM

A few things to keep in mind. We are talking about people who are ALREADY HERE. They are also already working. I am not sure what people are expecting, really. There is NEVER going to be a mass roundup and deportation of these people. Not ever. It just isn’t going to ever happen. So then you have to ask yourself how you deal with them. Simply putting your fingers in your ears, closing your eyes and pretending they don’t exist doesn’t fix anything. In fact, it makes things WORSE.

Straw man alert! Straw Man alert! Straw man alert!

the “we can’t round them all up” argumetn has been so soundly defeated so many times, it is apparent that pro-amnesty people like yourself have no real argument, or else you would not keep making it.

The fact is you pro-amnesty people have never made a single argument based on logic or facts as to why amnesty is a benefical policy for the U.S.

Instead, you lie and create straw men. Here is the totality of your argument for this policy -which will be bad for the U.S.:

1. We can’t round them all up, therefore we must give them amnesty! Such a stupid straw-man argumetn I won’t bother responding to it. We both know it is an idiotic argument based on total dishonesty.

2. “Racist!!” – again, not worth responding to.

3. “These are jobs Americans won’t do”. Again – stupid, dishonest and irrelevant.

4. Finally: “America was built on immigration so we have to allow everyone, for everywhere, to become an American citizen no matter what”. Yes, this argument is as stupid as it sounds.

that’s it – that is the totality of the pro-amnesty “arguments”. In the past 10 years we’ve been debating this issue – not one fact-based, logical argument in favor of amnesty has ever been advanced – meaning that none exists.

At the end of the day you argue that “we can’t round these people up” and that they are not going to voluntarily leave. Fine – let’s assume both of those are 100% true. So what? How does that translate into an argument for amnesty? It doesn’t. These people chose to be where they are. they entered america illegally knowing they would have to “live in the shadows”, etc. there is not reason that the U.S. needs to grant them amnesty and legal status.

Your argument is the same as saying “well, we’ll never stop crime, so let’s just make all crime legal.” It is not a logical conclusion. Just because someone did something doesn’t mean we have to condone it, reward it, and create incentives for more people to do it.

Passing an amnesty will 1) create millions more people on entitlement programs and 2) create an enormous incentive for millions more people to immigrate illegally into the U.S.

Those are 2 major cons to an amnesty. There are not pros for the U.S. There are pros for the illegals themselves, but not pros for the U.S. or its citizens. So, why do it? What rational, fact based policy reason is there to pass an amnesty?

Monkeytoe on February 3, 2014 at 9:39 AM

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