Quotes of the day

posted at 8:31 pm on January 18, 2014 by Allahpundit

Two senior members of Gov. Chris Christie’s administration warned a New Jersey mayor earlier this year that her town would be starved of hurricane relief money unless she approved a lucrative redevelopment plan favored by the governor, according to the mayor and emails and personal notes she shared with msnbc.

The mayor, Dawn Zimmer, hasn’t approved the project, but she did request $127 million in hurricane relief for her city of Hoboken – 80% of which was underwater after Sandy hit in October 2012. What she got was $142,000 to defray the cost of a single back-up generator plus an additional $200,000 in recovery grants…

“The bottom line is, it’s not fair for the governor to hold Sandy funds hostage for the City of Hoboken because he wants me to give back to one private developer,” she said Saturday on UP w/ Steve Kornacki. “… I know it’s very complicated for the public to really understand all of this, but I have a legal obligation to follow the law, to bring balanced development to Hoboken.”…

“I’d be more than willing to testify under oath and – and answer any questions and provide any documents, take a lie detector test,” Zimmer said, referring to the Christie administration’s denials. “And, you know, my question back to them is, ‘Would all of you? Would all of you be willing do that same thing, to testify under oath, to take a lie detector test?’”

***

A former Port Authority employee told CNN that agency officials were told in 2010 they had to find a place for [David] Wildstein at the executive level and the directive was coming from Christie’s office. Soon after, the position was created specifically for WIldstein. When Wildstein started, Deputy Executive Director Bill Baroni, Christie’s top appointee at the agency, introduced him to people as a good friend of the governor.

CNN examined documents from the Port Authority showing the names, titles and salaries of nearly 7,000 employees. The reports show that prior to Christie’s first term in office there were four people working in the deputy executive director’s office, the highest position on the New Jersey side of the agency. When Christie came into office the number increased to six. The documents show that Wildstein’s position was created in May 2010.

Sources, including several current and former employees at various levels of the Port Authority who did not want their names used, told CNN it was assumed that when David Wildstein was involved in any discussions at the agency, the information was being passed back to Christie’s office.

***

Christie’s team will face new scrutiny in coming days. On Thursday, the state legislature in Trenton approved two special committees to investigate the September lane closures on the George Washington Bridge. The burgeoning scandal has ensnared several of the governor’s closest aides, who have quit or been fired.

State Democrats said Bill Stepien and Bridget Anne Kelly — two advisers who were cut loose by Christie last week — would soon be called to testify about their roles in the controversy.

And Assemblyman John Wisniewski (D), who is chairing one of the investigative panels, said more Christie associates should expect to be called as the inquiries continue. His committee issued subpoenas to 17 individuals and three organizations Thursday afternoon. It declined to disclose the names until the subpoenas are served.

***

Rom-denfreude (noun) — The pleasure Mitt Romney loyalists are taking in the struggles of Chris Christie.

The condition is prevalent, stemming from a range of perceived Christie slights towards Romney during the 2012 campaign, which several Romney loyalists ticked off quickly — and with still-evident bitterness…

The sniping is not insignificant. Christie is not well-liked among tea party activists and leaders, where he is seen as a big-government moderate. So, in order to build a coalition that could give him a chance at the 2016 GOP presidential nomination, he’ll most likely need strong support from Republican establishment types, like those who formed the core of Romney’s formidable operation. And as the party’s last presidential nominee, his alumni network remains influential in the GOP professional and donor classes…

“There is a concern that where there is smoke there is fire,” [a Romney] operative said. “And this isn’t just one plume of smoke, this is several.”

***

“The guy, as a person, is horrific,” said Ballard, a top lobbyist and finance chair of former presidential candidate Mitt Romney…

“Charlie Crist got a lot of grief for what was called a hug of Obama. But what Christie did to Obama isn’t suitable to say in a family newspaper,” Ballard said. “I firmly believe he helped swing that election in Obama’s favor just to help himself. I busted my ass for two years raising money and supporting Romney and this guy Christie just wiped his hands of us when we were no longer useful to him.”

Ballard said “90 percent” of other major Romney fundraisers outside of the New Jersey-New York metro area “wouldn’t touch Christie with a 10-foot pole right now.”

***

Former Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney strongly defended New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie’s role in the bridge traffic scandal engulfing his administration, saying the governor’s presidential campaign prospects are “not hurt by the controversy.”…

“I think Chris has handled this in a very effective way,” Romney said. “A member of his administration did something that he was unaware of and that he found reprehensible. He faced the American people for two hours, took their questions. He dismissed people who were responsible. He took personal responsibility. That’s what a leader does.”

Romney continued, “I think he’s handled this kind of setting in a way very different than people who are not leaders, and I think the American people are pining for leaders who will take responsibility, who will answer questions openly, who will make sure that there’s accountability for the individuals who’ve done something wrong and speak in a blunt, straightforward manner. I think Chris is not hurt by the controversy. I think as time goes on, he’ll be seen as a strong leader.”

***

“Christie should still be Christie,” Madden said. “I believe it has less to do with changing his style entirely and more to do with picking his spots or his battles wisely. There will be times where his no-nonsense, confrontational approach will still fit perfectly with an electorate that is tired of the status quo and tired of what Christie himself called ‘the blow-dried approach’ of today’s conventional politicians.”…

Dante Scala, a New Jersey native and professor of political science at the University of New Hampshire, explained a key reason why this is so: “As others have pointed out, Christie’s combativeness is supposed to compensate for his moderation on certain issues important to the Republican primary electorate. If his assertiveness gave way to humble bipartisanship on the campaign trail, he becomes the Northeastern Republican version of Jon Huntsman ’12. And the trajectory for that type of candidate is at best flat, even in New Hampshire.”

Indeed, Christie’s reputation as an authentic, straight shooter is so central to his overall appeal in the media and among the general public, that if he were to lose that edge, all bets could be off.

***

Bridgegate inarguably hurts Christie. It blunts the momentum from his crushing reelection victory. It opens him up to intense investigative scrutiny. It makes his political persona problematic — it will now be harder for him to strike back against hecklers in classic Christie style without validating the “bully” charge.

But over? Assuming Christie isn’t exposed as a liar, that’s silly. If the Fort Lee caucuses were a key event in the Republican nomination fight and took place next month, the governor might have an insuperable problem. Fortunately for Christie, Manchester, N.H., is a couple of hundred miles away, and the First in the Nation primary won’t be held for two years.

The idea that Christie is over depends on people caring about the scandal more rather than less over time, and on core Republican voters nationally caring more about it than random people in New Jersey.

***

The other problem is that too many Americans have quickly jumped to the wrong conclusion. No, not about whether Christie knew about the prank and conspired to inconvenience scores of New Jersey residents in order to bully a political opponent. I’m talking about the other conclusion — the one about how being a bully is a negative trait in an elected official, and perhaps even enough to end a political career.

Is that so? Who made that determination? Think back to the great leaders who helped define the last century — from Teddy Roosevelt to Winston Churchill to Franklin D. Roosevelt to Harry Truman to Margaret Thatcher to Ronald Reagan. You had better believe that those people had moments when they acted like bullies. That’s part of politics…

America could use more strength on the world stage. We needn’t push around other countries, but — whether we’re talking about China or Libya or North Korea — we also need a president who won’t let our country be pushed around either.

Who’s afraid of big, bad bullies? Voters aren’t. They keep voting them into office — perhaps in the hopes that they’ll use their strength for good.

***

But as Tony Soprano (played so memorably by the late Jersey native James Gandolfini), could tell you, the same forces that spur ambition and success also carry within them their own demise. It quickly becomes difficult to know when serious lines are being crossed or the wrong messages are being sent to the people around you.

It’s telling that in his rise to national prominence, Gov. Christie captured headlines less for what he did than how he did it. Where other Republican governors have implemented major structural changes to collective bargaining (Wisconsin’s Scott Walker) or educational policy (Louisiana’s Bobby Jindal), Christie has essentially governed as a big-government conservative, spending more money each year he’s been in office and doling out conventional corporate welfare to favored constituents. The State of the State address he delivered yesterday didn’t change any of that…

Even if he’s ultimately fully exonerated in these and any other scandals, a question about his temperament will remain. Ironically, the same 100 percent Jersey temperament that got him noticed may disqualify him for life outside of Trenton. New Jersey exports tons of fruits, vegetables, pharmaceuticals, petroleum products, and above all, smart people. What it hasn’t done in a very long time — and probably for very good reason — is export a president.

***

Christie had three unique assets going for him: Mainstream media adoration (at least compared to the likes of Mitt Romney); a readiness to brawl with political opponents (unlike John McCain); and the perception of not being like a typical politician (unlike both Romney and McCain).

In the wake of “Bridgegate,” however, all three of Christie’s strengths crumbled and, potentially, so did his viability as a serious 2016 contender. The sooner Christie and the Republican Party recognize this grim reality, the better off they will both be in the long run.

Of course many could argue it’s still too early to stick a fork in Christie and declare him done, and that he has time to restore his credibility. However, even if Christie rides the media roller coaster back towards the apex of popularity, this ordeal revealed not just how little value it is being a Republican liked by journalists (such flirtations always prove to be like a summer camp crush never meant to last), but also that the idea of Christie as some bipartisan role-model was a media myth buoyed by a simple picture of Christie hugging Obama after Hurricane Sandy…

It’s probably a long-shot to happen, yes, but what better way for Christie to reclaim and truly earn the designation of being a unique and principled leader then to announce he will not run for president in 2016? Not because he lacks the desire (he clearly wants to be president), but because it is so vital for Republicans to win that election, and the governor’s misjudgment in surrounding himself with unprofessional aides capable of such intolerable behavior suggests maybe he should step aside so that an untainted Republican candidate can emerge.

***

***


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….the wrench Snowden thew into the killing room floor works is one thing – but even better, he MADE The Leftist Media NAME The Beast – which was THEM – once Named – It’s Power was Reduced…..just as the Indians Said……

….and all America and The World finally heard them Do it….

williamg on January 19, 2014 at 4:46 AM

The only principles of his that matter to me at the moment [is that he opposes the systematic violation of every American’s Constitutional rights.]

Yes, I can see that your interest, unlike mine, is…limited. :)

Don’t you support the Constitution?

FloatingRock on January 19, 2014 at 4:37 AM

“either/or” extremists like you crack me up, like the 2 possibilities you throw out are the only ones…you apparently don’t care at all what national security info he’s shared with other countries, which shows you to be like Snowden in that you’re both leaky i.e. less than trustworthy.

Anti-Control on January 19, 2014 at 4:47 AM

thatsafactjack on January 19, 2014 at 4:34 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eddie_Slovik

somewhere private sloviks family is saying…
we was robbed…!!!!

going2mars on January 19, 2014 at 4:48 AM

Nighty nite,, late night freaks. ;)

I’m too old for it.

wolly4321 on January 19, 2014 at 4:51 AM

King George laughed.

wolly4321 on January 19, 2014 at 4:37 AM

King George didn’t have A FRACTION, by any measure, of our Police OR our Military……

King George was also A WORLD away from us – the Police and Miliary are next to us………

your argument is a distraction, though – from the real one:

Regardless…..your standards of measurement STILL don’t matter……and aren’t really relevant

williamg on January 19, 2014 at 4:52 AM

wow. its like living in a freaking fish bowl without the stupid fake plants and sunken treasure boat.

SparkPlug on January 19, 2014 at 3:41 AM

Speak for yourself.

You don’t even have a skeleton thing?

Axe on January 19, 2014 at 4:53 AM

Anti-Control on January 19, 2014 at 4:47 AM

I’m the extremist? You’re the d-bag defending fascism, not me. I’m a moderate who supports truth, justice and the American way.

FloatingRock on January 19, 2014 at 4:53 AM

canopfor on January 19, 2014 at 4:08 AM

that first one make him guilty.. good read
disclosing methods and means….
how many world leaders now will shut down
the means that were disclosed…
and no I don’t believe Germany didn’t know we were looking…
someone’s looking at everyone sometimes..
but they know how…when by what means…who’s looking at her…ect..
this makes this kid a hero….how??

going2mars on January 19, 2014 at 4:20 AM

going2mars:

I don’t have any problem with the collection of data,regarding
terrorists, in a Jack Ryan type credibility, but, I think Obama
and the Democrats have been using it more to stifle the right,
and articles about this past election are examples of it!

I don’t like Snowdwns releasing of Programs and Methods, but,
am glad someone is able to release what Team Obama is doing!!!

And, yes,everyone spies.

Germany,I think,doesn’t buy Obama’s so called sincerity!:)

canopfor on January 19, 2014 at 4:53 AM

The Hindenburgchristie~~~ going down…

Oh, the humanities!

profitsbeard on January 19, 2014 at 4:54 AM

Nighty nite,, late night freaks. ;)

I’m too old for it.

wolly4321 on January 19, 2014 at 4:51 AM

Have a good night.

FloatingRock on January 19, 2014 at 4:56 AM

I’m the extremist? You’re the d-bag defending fascism, not me. I’m a moderate who supports truth, justice and the American way.

FloatingRock on January 19, 2014 at 4:53 AM

Considering that you rudely misrepresent my position, yes, you are the (myopic & self-serving) extremist and d-bag between the 2 of us! :)

Anti-Control on January 19, 2014 at 5:00 AM

“but, I think Obama
and the Democrats have been using it more to stifle the right,
and articles about this past election are examples of it!”
canopfor on January 19, 2014 at 4:53 AM

point taken…
but you could say that about all CICs …bush listened more than Clinton
Clinton more than bush elder….and so on…
as the technology move forward the amount of data is increased..
but your right light needs to be shined
on this where and when BHO used it …
hell the man used the IRS to stifle
he used the park service at the WWII memorial
he and Hillary looked in the eyes of a mother of a dead American
and lied at her face about her sons death…
(hint…anti Hillary commercial right there)

going2mars on January 19, 2014 at 5:02 AM

The Hindenburgchristie~~~ going down…

Oh, the humanities!

profitsbeard on January 19, 2014 at 4:54 AM

“Oh, the huge manatee!”

Anti-Control on January 19, 2014 at 5:02 AM

wide shot…

the woman on the left is lying to the woman and mother on the right…about her sons death….

if she can lie right to a grieving womans face ..she can lie to you…

fade…

going2mars on January 19, 2014 at 5:04 AM

you apparently don’t care at all what national security info he’s shared with other countries, which shows you to be like Snowden in that you’re both leaky i.e. less than trustworthy.

Anti-Control on January 19, 2014 at 4:47 AM

Aren’t you the one who’s been arguing that we all knew that they were spying on all of us so it’s no big deal now that it has been confirmed? Don’t you think that it’s even more likely that foreign leaders knew DC was spying on them? So then isn’t that even less of a big deal by your logic?

FloatingRock on January 19, 2014 at 5:05 AM

Anti-Control on January 19, 2014 at 5:00 AM

How have I misrepresented your position, rudely or otherwise?

FloatingRock on January 19, 2014 at 5:07 AM

Aren’t you the one who’s been arguing that we all knew that they were spying on all of us so it’s no big deal now that it has been confirmed?

FloatingRock on January 19, 2014 at 5:05 AM

No, you are confusing me with someone else, because I never have argued this.

Anti-Control on January 19, 2014 at 5:08 AM

No, you are confusing me with someone else, because I never have argued this.

Anti-Control on January 19, 2014 at 5:08 AM

It was probably Going2Mars, then. But you still called me an extremist.

If you support the Constitution and Bill of Rights and wish to… resurrect it at this point, then people like Snowden who help us in that cause at great personal sacrifice to themselves should not be smeared and maligned based on speculative theories about where he escaped to. It’s not like he could just go anywhere. Snowden did not have a choice but to escape those he was exposing or else he wouldn’t have been able to expose them to the extent that he has, if at all, and even that extent may not be enough if Wolly is right, so if Snowden had stayed in the US and been assassinated or sent off to a gulag somewhere it may have made people like you happy but it wouldn’t have served the interests of the American people very well, now would it?

And Going2Mars is right that we all suspected that they were spying on all of us, at least people like us who comment about politics and challenge authority, and the same is even more true of foreign leaders and their governments, they obviously knew. So far I don’t think any of Snowden’s revelations revealed techniques that China and Russia hadn’t already thought of. It’s technology, it works a certain way and if you want to use it to spy on people these are the ways it can be done. Google helped China do it to their people, then helped the American government do the same thing to the American people. Heck, probably all three countries are getting the technology from the same companies. The only real way the information that Snowden released helps Russia and China is to politically embarrass the US government by exposing their hypocrisy. That is to the advantage of the American people whose rights have systematically been violated, because now we are aware of it as a matter of fact, rather than just a “conspiracy theory” that people, maybe even you, would mock and ridicule, so now the American people have the option to put an end to it if they’ll put up a fight. Maybe they won’t, but they have a choice.

FloatingRock on January 19, 2014 at 5:26 AM

So in summary, whether you like Snowden or hate him and suspect his motives, he has done a great service to the American people, the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

And with that I’m off to bed. Have a good night.

FloatingRock on January 19, 2014 at 5:27 AM

How have I misrepresented your position, rudely or otherwise?

FloatingRock on January 19, 2014 at 5:07 AM

It was probably Going2Mars, then. But you still called me an extremist.

FloatingRock on January 19, 2014 at 5:26 AM

I called you an extremist because it looked to me like you were assuming I oppose the Constitution somehow for believing that it’s unwise of any of us to trust Snowden at this point…how much of that came about because you confused me with g2m, I don’t know. :)

So in summary, whether you like Snowden or hate him and suspect his motives, he has done a great service to the American people, the Constitution and Bill of Rights.

I’ll take this moment to state that I’m an anti-fascist as well as an anti-anarchist. I don’t deny that the NSA is out of control, but I also don’t deny that it has a legal & legitimate purpose, and Snowden’s supporters don’t seem to care that he has unilaterally determined for himself to be the arbiter of what the NSA’s role should be. This means he is not a patriot in the normal meaning of the word – I think it shows him to be more of an anarchist, and I disrespect him because of that.

And with that I’m off to bed. Have a good night.

FloatingRock on January 19, 2014 at 5:27 AM

Thank you. When you see this later, know that I hope you slept well! :)

Anti-Control on January 19, 2014 at 5:51 AM

If you are ever discussing global warming with someone and they claim that 97% of scientists agree that humans are responsible for climate change, show them this:

http://opinion.financialpost.com/2011/01/03/lawrence-solomon-97-cooked-stats/

As many of you are no doubt already aware, the claim of man-caused global warming is a big farce.

bluegill on January 19, 2014 at 5:57 AM

Gene Kelly is still singing in the rain somewhere.

celtic warrior on January 19, 2014 at 7:16 AM

Blessed Sabbath, Americans! And, Trolls

You have to expect spiritual warfare whenever you stand up for righteousness or call attention to basic values. It’s just a matter of light battling the darkness. But the light wins every time. You can’t throw enough darkness on light to put it out.

- Thomas Kinkade

My take: America’s Culture War: This Encroaching Darkness

kingsjester on January 19, 2014 at 9:11 AM

wide shot…

the woman on the left is lying to the woman and mother on the right…about her sons death….

if she can lie right to a grieving womans face ..she can lie to you…

fade…

going2mars on January 19, 2014 at 5:04 AM

Tight shot… Look how much we care… about the video.

Liars.

Fallon on January 19, 2014 at 9:28 AM

Heh! Morning all…

Nice debates going on here of last night, enjoyed all the word wrangling I must say.

H/T To Axe wolly williamg g2m FL and special THANKS to Sparky for ever keeping us ALL on the right track…

I got my eyes on YOU!!

This is what I so LOVE about HA!!!

Mention A_C also for, doing what you do best…

Kudos to Bluegill!! Wot up gurl!! ;)

All you HA peeps just ROCK!!

Jackie; QOTD isn’t qotd without you here.

Schad; Dude, you got it all going on, stories I wanna hear/read, when you are ready mate :)

God Bless the best peeps in all the world, right here!!

Wrangle them words folks!

Have a great Sunday everyone… ((Hugs))

Scrumpy on January 19, 2014 at 9:47 AM

http://opinion.financialpost.com/2011/01/03/lawrence-solomon-97-cooked-stats/

As many of you are no doubt already aware, the claim of man-caused global warming is a big farce.

bluegill on January 19, 2014 at 5:57 AM

Good find. Bookmarked it.

davidk on January 19, 2014 at 10:06 AM

Sure they are. I own guns.

wolly4321 on January 19, 2014 at 4:11 AM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

A lot less than The Police or The Military……..

williamg on January 19, 2014 at 4:29 AM

ff.

During the American Revolution, the active forces in the field against the King’s tyranny never amounted to more than 3% of the colonists.

http://sipseystreetirregulars.blogspot.com/2009/02/what-is-three-percenter.html

Roughly three percent of the population fought for liberty at any given time during the American war for Independence. With a colonial population of 2,500,000 to 3,000,000 only about 250,000 men served during the war with never more than 90,000 men serving at any given time.

Historians have estimated that approximately 40-45% of the colonists supported the rebellion while 15-20% of the population of the thirteen colonies remained loyal to the British Crown. The remaining 35-45% attempted to remain neutral.

http://www.threepercenter.org/read.php?4,8

Some have a different view: http://www.adl.org/combating-hate/domestic-extremism-terrorism/c/oath-keepers-and-three.html

davidk on January 19, 2014 at 10:25 AM

boo who who Honey…..like you don’t strong arm your lowley councilcritters…. American gubRmint is nut’n but thuggery from the President down to the city dog catcher……

roflmmfao

donabernathy on January 19, 2014 at 10:40 AM

My take: America’s Culture War: This Encroaching Darkness

kingsjester on January 19, 2014 at 9:11 AM

…I miss Paul Harvey!

KOOLAID2 on January 19, 2014 at 11:08 AM

My take: America’s Culture War: This Encroaching Darkness

kingsjester on January 19, 2014 at 9:11 AM

I have heard and passed on the last two sentences of this letter many times, but before reading it on your blog I had never read the whole thing. It is worth reading in its entirety.

Gentleman,

While our country remains untainted with the principles and manners which are now producing desolation in so many parts of the world; while she continues sincere, and incapable of insidious and impious policy, we shall have the strongest reason to rejoice in the local destination assigned us by Providence. But should the people of America once become capable of that deep simulation towards one another, and towards foreign nations, which assumes the language of justice and moderation while it is practising iniquity and extravagance, and displays I have received from Major-General Hull and Brigadier, General Walker your unanimous address from Lexington, animated with a martial spirit, and expressed with a military dignity becoming your character and the memorable plains on which it was adopted. In the most captivating manner the charming pictures of candor, frankness, and sincerity, while it is rioting in rapine and insolence, this country will be the most miserable habitation in the World; because we have no government armed with power capable of contending with human passions unbridled by morality and religion. Avarice, ambition, revenge, or gallantry, would break the strongest cords of our Constitution as a whale goes through a net. Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.

The Left wants to give up God. They want to give up the whole notion of Natural Rights. They want us to stop being ‘judgmental’ and ‘ethnocentric.’

They want us to become just like the rest of the world. Freedom is incompatible with what they want.

Libertarians who do not understand that are fools.

fadetogray on January 19, 2014 at 12:50 PM

The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves; whether they are to have any property they can call their own; whether their Houses, and Farms, are to be pillaged and destroyed, and they consigned to a State of Wretchedness from which no human efforts will probably deliver them. The fate of unborn Millions will now depend, under God, on the Courage and Conduct of this army-Our cruel and unrelenting Enemy leaves us no choice but a brave resistance, or the most abject submission; that is all we can expect-We have therefore to resolve to conquer or die.~George Washington to his troops before the Battle of Long Island.

davidk on January 19, 2014 at 1:44 PM

Axe on January 19, 2014 at 1:44 AM

Schadenfreude on January 19, 2014 at 1:47 AM

“He changed at least one life forever. I won’t be looking at the government of the United States the same way again”

let me ask you two this…
what part about the government spying on you is news..??

….

going2mars on January 19, 2014 at 2:09 AM

We already established that I knew all that they did.

To be very clear, it’s not what’s new, and done by whom.

It’s what’s unconstitutional, illegal, and wrong.

This entire thread is living proof that the USA is dead, breathing heavily on some life support.

Good nite America. It was nice to know you. The Ds and commies are not your real enemies.

Schadenfreude on January 19, 2014 at 1:47 PM

the good people of Ohio are still debating if they should
erect a statue to Clement Vallandigham

http://www.reviewonline.com/page/content.detail/id/566848/Residents-and-state-question-plans-for-Vallandigham-statue.html?nav=5008

going2mars on January 19, 2014 at 2:38 PM

“I’ll take this moment to state that I’m an anti-fascist as well as an anti-anarchist. I don’t deny that the NSA is out of control, but I also don’t deny that it has a legal & legitimate purpose, and Snowden’s supporters don’t seem to care that he has unilaterally determined for himself to be the arbiter of what the NSA’s role should be. This means he is not a patriot in the normal meaning of the word – I think it shows him to be more of an anarchist, and I disrespect him because of that.”
Anti-Control on January 19, 2014 at 5:51 AM

well said..
before we erect a statue of young mr snowden, mounted on a horse
with both front hooves in the air, on the mall in Washington DC.
we might want to know
what data was taken
how much
what programs
how much did he share with his new friends
what will he release in the future
and on and on…

going2mars on January 19, 2014 at 2:47 PM

Where there’s smoke, there’s fire. Bridgegate is just the tip of the iceberg. More facts will come out to disprove any lingering Cristy-is-conservative meme. He is first and foremost a cronyist using the power of office to reward friends and punish enemies. He only rode the wave into office because Corzine was so corrupt and yet where is Christy either as State AG or governor cleaning up that mess? Glad he’s crashing and burning now than later while carrying the GOPe banner in 2016. Good riddance.

AH_C on January 19, 2014 at 2:58 PM

“And Going2Mars is right that we all suspected that they were spying on all of us,”
FloatingRock on January 19, 2014 at 5:26 AM

I didn’t ‘suspect’…I, like many, knew they were watching/listening ..
I went to work for TRW in 1980..within the first month I knew..
I think its a tad willfully ignorant of some to say they didn’t know…
all governments of all nations are, and have always listened
and gathered data on the citizens..
Caesar did it…tho not very well…
Washington, Lincoln, FDR, Wilson, Kennedy, Nixon…you name the CIC and he listened…
Hoover listened…you all knew that …right?
go international.. Stalin, Hitler and Mao all listened and gathered data..
I also stated that this is one reason I have never owned a cell phone…or a Garmon…or gps..or nav system in the car…I rarely use plastic to pay for things…
I have always thought a ‘smaller footprint’ was better…
lest data …is…less data to gather..

going2mars on January 19, 2014 at 3:02 PM

“It’s what’s unconstitutional, illegal, and wrong.”

Schadenfreude on January 19, 2014 at 1:47 PM

I am 100% with you here….well stated (as always)

but that’s just our house cleaning….as americans….
what about the lil tip to Merkel about her
phone being tapped…
this ( and much less) was once considered treason in this country..
what do you suppose the family of pvt Slovik are thinking
watching all this go down..

going2mars on January 19, 2014 at 3:08 PM

In case anyone checks, a little clarification:

Snowden did perform a service in redirecting our attention to the fact that our own government has no regard for our constitutional rights as citizens. However, this is something we’ve known, to one degree or another, for some time. His revelations simply make it impossible for anyone to obfuscate and apologize for the federal governments overreach directed at the citizenry any longer.

Frankly, I don’t give a damn how much spying we’re doing on Merkel’s phone, etc. I do care that, as American citizens, we’ve been systematically stripped of our rights. particularly our right to privacy.

My comments on Snowden are relevant to the reality he faces going forward and the mistakes he made that got him to this point.

thatsafactjack on January 19, 2014 at 3:20 PM

and to all those in the senate and house that fain ‘shock’ that
the big brother is watching the citizens…liars.. the whole lot..
these are the same men and women that voted to fund all those satellites.. those drones..
these are the same ppl that invented the FISA courts..
they voted to fund the CIA…NSA…FBI…
they funded the new massive NSA buildings in Utah …!!!

wait..im sure they didn’t read any of those bills either…right?

going2mars on January 19, 2014 at 3:21 PM

PS- On the use of ‘foul’ language, as a person who works with the language, the use of the occasional mild expletive is useful to make a point or add emphasis. The rankest words, however, don’t generally serve this purpose. My comments were regards those who habitually rely on rank expletives as a crutch rather than use the language to their best advantage and my own efforts to serve as a counterpoint to the abuses of the language I’ve encountered working primarily with those on the LEFT who use expletives, even the rankest variety, as a conversational style.

I believe that everyone is entitled to speak in the manner they find most appropriate, even if that style is offensive to some, as long as they are aware of their usage and content with the relative effectiveness and effect of that usage.

thatsafactjack on January 19, 2014 at 3:27 PM

“Snowden did perform a service in redirecting our attention to the fact that our own government has no regard for our constitutional rights as citizens. However, this is something we’ve known, to one degree or another, for some time. His revelations simply make it impossible for anyone to obfuscate and apologize for the federal governments overreach directed at the citizenry any longer.”
thatsafactjack on January 19, 2014 at 3:20 PM

nods…great point…
dovetails with Mr Schads..
“It’s what’s unconstitutional, illegal, and wrong.”
we now all know more about the length and width..
how long will we put up with it…and
what do we want about it…
how do you connect the dots
if you don’t gather …dots..
how many dots is enough to gather??
how many dots are needed?…requested??..
is no dot gathering a better idea?
all good debates we must have…no question

going2mars on January 19, 2014 at 3:32 PM

“Frankly, I don’t give a damn how much spying we’re doing on Merkel’s phone,”
thatsafactjack on January 19, 2014 at 3:20 PM

this part, I would re think…
I would think..
spying on other governments is what Washington is suppose to do..
and mr snowden did not help American concerns on this.

going2mars on January 19, 2014 at 3:41 PM

going2mars on January 19, 2014 at 3:41 PM

One would have to be naive, indeed, to believe that the Snowden revelations are going to have any serious degree of effect on our ability to spy on foreign governments. That’s the edge technological advantage and well placed operatives gives us. At most Snowden afforded foreign interests an opportunity to waggle an accusatory finger.

There will, doubtless, be some talk of ‘reigning in spying on foreign governments’ but nothing will be done to jeopardize our ability to collect any intelligence we might wish to possess.

Obama said as much when he added the caveat ‘unless there is good reason’. That ‘good reason’ is subjective and a long way from saying ‘just cause’…unless one means ‘just ’cause’.

Those foreign interests knew about the spying. They may not have know precisely how effective and invasive that spying would be, but they were aware that if we could… we would.

The difference is that now no one can pretend not to know.

thatsafactjack on January 19, 2014 at 4:00 PM

The difference is that now no one can pretend not to know.

thatsafactjack on January 19, 2014 at 4:00 PM

again..I agree..by now we should all see
the cards on the table…
and we have separated this into two parts..
foreign and domestic ..
domestically …we must choose to leave cards we deem fit or
remove cards we deem unfit as Americans…
no question they are stomping the constitution…
in many parts…
do we need the 9 of clubs on the table..
what purpose does it serve..
can we do without the jack of spades…
and whoever was collecting the 6 of hearts
should be fired…and frog marched if needed..
on the foreign side….
you wont find a person either ex or current in the
listening community that says what this kid did,
did not harm US interests..
and who knows what’s to come or when..
I see what your saying tho…all good points…

going2mars on January 19, 2014 at 4:26 PM

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