Video: Ex-CIA lawyer declares “my conscience is clear” over waterboarding

posted at 11:21 am on January 10, 2014 by Ed Morrissey

If Robert Gates thought his memoir would be the most explosive book published at the start of the new year, he could find himself disappointed. John Rizzo, who spent decades at the CIA and was involved in some of the most controversial issues of that era, has begun PR work for his memoir Company Man. Rizzo’s most controversial decision was to write a memo that got the Bush administration to approve waterboarding as a technique to break resistance to interrogation, a decision for which Rizzo expresses no regret — in the book or in this interview with NBC’s Andrea Mitchell:

Visit NBCNews.com for breaking news, world news, and news about the economy

“Extraordinary measures had to be taken,” John Rizzo said about the now-illegal technique, which he asserts was not inhumane.

“No, if it had been torture, we wouldn’t have done it,” he told NBC’s Andrea Mitchell.

Rizzo recounts the genesis of the waterboarding program along with numerous other stories from his three decades at the spy agency in his memoir, “Company Man: Thirty Years of Controversy and Crisis in the CIA.”

Waterboarding, a technique that simulates drowning, was front and center in a debate over the “enhanced” interrogation methods used on al Qaeda terrorist suspects following the attacks of September 11.

Rizzo won Justice Department approval for the practice but said the program originated from the CIA with him and a few others.

Frankly, I was a little surprised by the light tone taken in this clip by Mitchell. It may well be that the argument has gone on so long that it’s now mostly an opportunity to just revisit the competing sides on interrogation techniques as a caught-in-amber moment, but it only closed out five years ago. Plus, this is the man who pushed the idea that it was not torture and therefore legitimate — a claim Rizzo explicitly makes in this interview again, even sans the ticking-time-bomb qualifiers that many take in reluctantly supporting Rizzo’s position.  The International Spy Museum and James Bond references are pretty glossy and lightweight considering the subject matter available in this book, no?

The Gates memoir might do better within the Beltway, but I’ll bet the Rizzo memoir sells better outside of it. Who doesn’t want a peek inside the CIA? Especially since Rizzo doesn’t hesitate to dish on Hollywood:

Much of his book, Company Man: Thirty Years of Controversy and Crisis in the CIA, tells the previously-guarded tales of clandestine operations including their frequent partnerships with Hollywood stars.

In the book, read by MailOnline, the connection between the CIA and the movie business was recently publicized by the film Argo, but Mr Rizzo’s book shows that their partnerships were more than just some creative storyboards and false movie advertisements. …

Mr Rizzo recalled an interesting conversation with the CIA employee who was the handler for this particular actor: ‘The actor refuses to take any money, but he told us that instead all he wants is for us to score him the best fifty-thousand-dollar stash of cocaine we can find. He seems to think we can get the real primo stuff. So that’s why I’m here. Is it okay for us to do it?’ he recalled the unidentified agent asking.

Mr Rizzo shot down the request and said that the actor ended up helping the agency free of charge.

And the Clintons:

He repeatedly slammed President Clinton and said that after he was elected ‘it was increasingly apparent that President Clinton couldn’t care less about the Agency or the rest of the intelligence community’. …

His most damning critique came when he told how the Democratic President sent then-First Lady Hillary Clinton to attend the funeral for a fallen operative in his place.

Mr Rizzo called the move ‘the most hurtful presidential snub I witnessed in my entire career’.

‘Bill Clinton, our new president, couldn’t find the time to make the ten -minute trip from the White House to the CIA to pay his respects. He sent his wife instead. It was an unforgivable slight from a man who had famously told the American people during his just-completed campaign, “I feel your pain,”’ Mr Rizzo wrote.

We’ll see who sells more … and whether anyone takes the opportunity to approach it seriously.


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The military gets waterboarded when they go to SERE school. Of course they know that it is going to stop at some point. It’s been around for quite a while, and we certainly didn’t invent it.
http://www.npr.org/2007/11/03/15886834/waterboarding-a-tortured-history

Patriot Vet on January 10, 2014 at 11:31 AM

Mine, too. And with the number of leftards who volunteered for it, it can’t be that bad.

Blake on January 10, 2014 at 11:33 AM

It is unfortunate we don’t have different words for extraordinary measures and real torture. Waterboarding is an ugly thing.

But ‘torture?’ Torture is things like cutting off fingers and drilling holes in flesh and skinning people. Torture is gouging out eyes. Torture is cutting off genitals.

Waterboarding clearly is not in that league.

fadetogray on January 10, 2014 at 11:33 AM

I get tired of that dishonest meme that torture or enhanced interrogation doesn’t work. It works just fine.

Blake on January 10, 2014 at 11:34 AM

I generally don’t, but I might have to buy this book.

Bitter Clinger on January 10, 2014 at 11:35 AM

“Extraordinary measures had to be taken,” John Rizzo said about the now-illegal technique, which he asserts was not inhumane.

“No, if it had been torture, we wouldn’t have done it,” he told NBC’s Andrea Mitchell.

And if it hadn’t been the evil Booosh who was president, the media might well have just accepted that statement at face value.

Too late to do that now, though. So “waterboarding” will forever be called torture.

At least, until Obama does it.

There Goes the Neighborhood on January 10, 2014 at 11:37 AM

It is unfortunate we don’t have different words for extraordinary measures and real torture. Waterboarding is an ugly thing.

But ‘torture?’ Torture is things like cutting off fingers and drilling holes in flesh and skinning people. Torture is gouging out eyes. Torture is cutting off genitals.

Waterboarding clearly is not in that league.

fadetogray on January 10, 2014 at 11:33 AM

To the Left, anything more than asking “pretty please” is torture. This is how they go about defining terms.

Bitter Clinger on January 10, 2014 at 11:38 AM

If only they’d used these tactics against US citizens, he’d be a hero to the Democrats and the left.

besser tot als rot on January 10, 2014 at 11:39 AM

Mine, too. And with the number of leftards who volunteered for it, it can’t be that bad.

Blake on January 10, 2014 at 11:33 AM

Yeah, the day those clowns volunteer to have their fingernails pulled out and electrodes attached to their privates is the day I’ll believe that waterboarding is torture.

NavyMustang on January 10, 2014 at 11:39 AM

Torture is having to watch Moochelle plow through a crate of lobster with her wood chipper jowels while you starve.

Waterboarding not so much.

SparkPlug on January 10, 2014 at 11:41 AM

Torture is having to watch Moochelle plow through a crate of lobster with her wood chipper jowels while you starve.

Waterboarding not so much.

SparkPlug on January 10, 2014 at 11:41 AM

Hell, torture is having to hear Barry drone on in yet another speech.

Bitter Clinger on January 10, 2014 at 11:43 AM

Mine, too. And with the number of leftards who volunteered for it, it can’t be that bad.

Blake on January 10, 2014 at 11:33 AM

As explained to me by a liberal. The USA should not lower themselves to the same level as others. It’s not whether or not harsh integration results in damage to the recipient it is the fact that it is being done. We should ask the person for cooperation and leave them alone if they don’t want to. At most we should allow some type of plea bargain in exchange for information but nothing more than that. We should show the prisoner that we respect them by respecting their cultural and religious beliefs. By doing so the prisoner may not view us as badly and may be more open to cooperation.

As I said this is what was told to me and may or may not represent my own views.

Dr. Frank Enstine on January 10, 2014 at 11:44 AM

Rizzo’s a real patriot with real chops. Hope his book goes best-seller and he gets rewarded accordingly for his service to the country and for putting up with all the crap from Obama and the rest of the lefties. I salute you, Sir.

TXUS on January 10, 2014 at 11:44 AM

‘Bill Clinton, our new president, couldn’t find the time to make the ten -minute trip from the White House to the CIA to pay his respects. He sent his wife instead. It was an unforgivable slight from a man who had famously told the American people during his just-completed campaign, “I feel your pain,”’ Mr Rizzo wrote.

Who knows why BC could make this trip –
but what an absurd angle to hypothesize it was because he was some uncaring callous being….with the ‘I feel your pain’ line thrown in for extra melodrama.
This is shtick writing that’s just politically motivated.
For sure Gates book is much much much better and much more worthy…just seeing that.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 11:47 AM

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 11:47 AM

lol

That’s why these threads are called troll bait.

We can’t even hire libtards for the ACA threads.

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 11:56 AM

The thought of Khalid Sheik Mohammed getting his nose wet doesn’t keep me up at night.

Alberta_Patriot on January 10, 2014 at 11:59 AM

Rizzo’s on a tour and saying a lot –
and what he reveals is that he was a stooge who was happy to oblige.
He freely admits his efforts were intended to insulate torturers and those who advocated such to be immune from any legal jeopardy.
And the way he did this was that they would hand him a list of what they wanted to do…and then he’d come up with something that said ‘yep, legal!’ The absurdity in calling this any sort of constitutional vetting. He claims there was once this one ask that ‘went too far’. Of course he can’t tell us what that was. My guess it was ‘can we using ravens to gauge their eyes out’ and was put on the list just give him the opp to appear like he was making any real judgement here. (Or maybe Cheney had ravens.)
He may as well just handed over blank pages with ‘approved’ stamped at the bottom…and let them fill out the above later.
This isn’t even slippery slope…it’s the bottom.

This in essence is what I find appalling about Rizzo and Yoo and their defenders.
They offered the veneer of clinical and critical analysis to what was just rank brutality….torture. Yoo couldn’t even bring himself to dismiss as illegal the hypothetical crushing a kid’s testicles in a vice.
I’m reminded of RJ Lifton’s research on Nazi doctors here.
They had official memos and processes too.

Give Bush credit for eventually seeing the b.s. of all of this.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:03 PM

The thought of Khalid Sheik Mohammed getting his nose wet doesn’t keep me up at night.

Alberta_Patriot on January 10, 2014 at 11:59 AM

If that’s your one thought, then you’re sleeping through all of it anyway.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:04 PM

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 11:47 AM

Can we get an “Awwwwwwwww”?

Bitter Clinger on January 10, 2014 at 12:05 PM

To the Left, anything more than asking “pretty please” is torture. This is how they go about defining terms.

I have to disagree with this.

Pelosi, for example, was perfectly fine with waterboarding when it was originally brought to her attention.

It is only later when they make the strategic decision to oppose the war on terror and it became apparent that this was a potential point to attack Bush with that waterboarding became a problem.

Janet Reno, for example, notably used methods that the left now calls torture against simple criminal defendants.

I think what we are seeing here with Andrea Mitchell is that there is little for the left to gain any more by attacking Bush’s national security policies…so they don’t care very much any more…

18-1 on January 10, 2014 at 12:07 PM

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:03 PM

You’re so full of crap, it’s spouting out your ears.

Bitter Clinger on January 10, 2014 at 12:09 PM

Why would anyone worry about it?

Schadenfreude on January 10, 2014 at 12:09 PM

Can we get an “Awwwwwwwww”?

Bitter Clinger on January 10, 2014 at 12:05 PM

I think you’re trying to say Baaaaaahhh…

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:10 PM

As explained to me by a liberal. The USA should not lower themselves to the same level as others.

The left’s saint FDR put Americans of Japanese decent in concentration camps, intentionally fire-bombed cities full of civilians, and executed enemy saboteurs.

The left has no problem with any means to win a conflict…if they believe the conflict is worth winning.

18-1 on January 10, 2014 at 12:10 PM

Who knows why BC could wouldn’t make this trip –

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 11:47 AM

This is correct now.

To your other babbling and the question above – take it from me – the guy who wrote that really knows what he said. YOU on the other hand just babbled.

Schadenfreude on January 10, 2014 at 12:12 PM

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:03 PM

Simpler version “I have no clue” — verbie

Schadenfreude on January 10, 2014 at 12:16 PM

Can we get an “Awwwwwwwww”?

Bitter Clinger on January 10, 2014 at 12:05 PM

He’s not even worth that.

He’s real fond of telling you obama got UBL. Information derived through enhanced interrogation methods during both the Bush and obama administrations is what gave Leon Penetta actionable intelligence to kill UBL. For which, obama took credit. For which he dithered almost 24 hours over before giving authority to Penetta to um, take authority. He tore himself from a golf course to sit in the corner while braver men (and women) than him made the call.

Well okay, I can see why verb is butthurt. I’ll manage an awww for him.

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 12:18 PM

verbie, you’re needed here.

Schadenfreude on January 10, 2014 at 12:19 PM

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 12:18 PM

For all of which there still is zero evidence…but there are man dead SEALs.

Schadenfreude on January 10, 2014 at 12:20 PM

many dead SEALs

Schadenfreude on January 10, 2014 at 12:20 PM

I think you’re trying to say Baaaaaahhh…

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:10 PM

With all the crap that’s spilling out of your ears, I’m sure it does sound that way to you.

Bitter Clinger on January 10, 2014 at 12:20 PM

Who knows why BC could wouldn’t couldn’t make this trip –

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 11:47 AM

This is correct now.

To your other babbling and the question above – take it from me – the guy who wrote that really knows what he said. YOU on the other hand just babbled.

Schadenfreude on January 10, 2014 at 12:12 PM

Now properly fixed.
My excuse is a typo.
His is that he doesn’t know at all – but will go with politically motivated assumptions.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:22 PM

I’m sure it does sound that way to you.

Bitter Clinger on January 10, 2014 at 12:20 PM

Often…yes.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:23 PM

Waterboarding: Yet another issue liberals/libertarians don’t want me in charge of, along with illegal alien/border control, illegal drugs, abortion, minimum wage laws, gay ‘marriage’, tenure laws, labor relations/union laws, tort reform, the 2nd Amendment, health care, the designated hitter rule…

Knott Buyinit on January 10, 2014 at 12:25 PM

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 11:47 AM

lol

That’s why these threads are called troll bait.

We can’t even hire libtards for the ACA threads.

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 11:56 AM

Wow, haven’t seen verbaluce in a while! I wonder why?

Maybe because….

Ed –
You mean the websites aren’t working perfectly on day one two three four five six seven eight nine ten eleven twelve thirteen fourteen fifteen sixteen seventeen eighteen nineteen twenty twenty-one twenty-two twenty-three twenty-four twenty-five twenty-six twenty-seven twenty-eight twenty-nine thirty thirty-one thirty-two thirty-three thirty-four thirty-five thirty-six thirty-seven thirty-eight thirty-nine forty forty-one forty-two forty-three forty-four forty-five forty-six forty-seven forty-eight forty-nine fifty fifty-one fifty-two fifty-three fifty-four fifty-five fifty-six fifty-seven fifty-eight fifty-nine sixty sixty-one sixty-two sixty-three sixty-four sixty-five sixty-six sixty-seven sixty-eight sixty-nine seventy seventy-one seventy-two seventy-three seventy-four seventy-five seventy-six seventy-seven seventy-eight seventy-nine eighty eighty-one eighty-two eighty-three eighty-four eighty-five eighty-six eighty-seven eighty-eight eighty-nine ninety ninety-one ninety-two ninety-three ninety-four ninety-five ninety-six ninety-seven ninety-eight ninety-nine one hundred one hundred one one hundred two
verbaluce on October 1, 2013 at 10:18 AM

There Goes the Neighborhood on January 10, 2014 at 12:26 PM

many dead SEALs

Schadenfreude on January 10, 2014 at 12:20 PM

You know Schade, I used to balk at the notion obama would have US military members harmed on purpose. But after three years of hearing my family and friends still serving, blaming most deaths in Afghanistan on obama’s ROE, I think anything is possible. I know obama hates our military. How much more of a stretch is it to surmise he could do something directly to harm them. Especially if that selfish SOB thought he could gain something from it.

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 12:30 PM

Who knows why BC could make this trip –
but what an absurd angle to hypothesize it was because he was some uncaring callous being

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 11:47 AM

You’re not too bright, are you. Your kneejerk defense of Clinton ignores the bigger point.

It’s not that Clinton didn’t attend the funeral for a fallen CIA operative. He might well have been too busy banging the interns that day to leave the White House. It’s that he sent his vile disgusting pig of a spouse and not a real (i.e. official) member of the administration. Al Gore for example. In short, the snub wasn’t that Clinton didn’t show up is is that the pig did.

Happy Nomad on January 10, 2014 at 12:31 PM

There Goes the Neighborhood on January 10, 2014 at 12:26 PM

Excellent point. Why doesn’t the president want people to have health care?

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 12:32 PM

Baaaaaahhh…

verbaloon on January 10, 2014 at 12:10 PM

Hey verbie, I caught you on video this morning!

Baaaaaahhh-

Del Dolemonte on January 10, 2014 at 12:32 PM

He’s real fond of telling you obama got UBL. Information derived through enhanced interrogation methods during both the Bush and obama administrations is what gave Leon Penetta actionable intelligence to kill UBL. For which, obama took credit. For which he dithered almost 24 hours over before giving authority to Penetta to um, take authority. He tore himself from a golf course to sit in the corner while braver men (and women) than him made the call.

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 12:18 PM

Not really one to say that…let along be fond of tell anyone that.
The EIT sell on that is both false and irrelevant.
Try thinking about this way – someone tells you they can get some info only if they torture the children of a suspect in his presence. Leaving aside whether or not correct info will be ascertained, do you or do you not support the method? Is it legal?
(It’s a rhetorical question intended to illustrate a point…so save me the ‘hell yes torture the bastard’s kids!’ lines.)
It’s been well established that EIT was unneeded and ineffective.
But that is beside the point.

(And whoppdeedoo on your snark about what Obama was doing while brave troops were in harms way. Do you have a catalog for what Bush and Cheney were doing during all the times troops were in harms way during their time in office? No…of course you don’t.)

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:34 PM

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:34 PM

I don’t understand the premise of your comment. Are you rejecting known facts and inserting your opinion?

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 12:37 PM

In short, the snub wasn’t that Clinton didn’t show up is is that the pig did.

Happy Nomad on January 10, 2014 at 12:31 PM

Wow.
I don’t think it’s fair to project your own issues on to Rizzo there.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:37 PM

His is that he doesn’t know at all – but will go with politically motivated assumptions.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:22 PM

Actually it’s YOU who doesn’t know.

Schadenfreude on January 10, 2014 at 12:38 PM

It’s been well established that EIT was unneeded and ineffective.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:34 PM

That’s a lie right there.

Bitter Clinger on January 10, 2014 at 12:38 PM

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:34 PM

I don’t understand the premise of your comment. Are you rejecting known facts and inserting your opinion?

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 12:37 PM

I’m not the one confusing facts and opinions.
But is that the best you can offer in response?
Ok.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:40 PM

I know obama hates our military. How much more of a stretch is it to surmise he could do something directly to harm them. Especially if that selfish SOB thought he could gain something from it.

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 12:30 PM

It’s well documented that the lazy shiftless coward spends little time dealing with the daily security brief. He can’t be bothered.

I’d like an explanation from these idiots who claim that waterboarding is humane about the use of drones to kill people. Raining down hellfire missiles from a drone is more humane than capturing and interrogating people?

Happy Nomad on January 10, 2014 at 12:42 PM

(And whoppdeedoo on your snark about what Obama was doing while brave troops were in harms way. Do you have a catalog for what Bush and Cheney were doing during all the times troops were in harms way during their time in office? No…of course you don’t.)

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:34 PM

Well, for one, Bush visited me on Thanksgiving in Iraq one year. I saw him in Qatar on his way to Iraq on another occasion. Bush was a fighter pilot for the Texas NG and obama smoked pot.

Come to think of it. What did obama do on last Thanksgiving. Oh yeah, visited hunger striking illegal aliens. That was so, so, so brave.

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 12:43 PM

Well, for one, Bush visited me on Thanksgiving in Iraq one year. I saw him in Qatar on his way to Iraq on another occasion. Bush was a fighter pilot for the Texas NG and obama smoked pot.

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 12:43 PM

Thanks for your service.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:44 PM

Happy Nomad on January 10, 2014 at 12:42 PM

Idiots who claim that waterboarding is INhumane

Happy Nomad on January 10, 2014 at 12:44 PM

Who knows why BC could make this trip –
but what an absurd angle to hypothesize it was because he was some uncaring callous being

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 11:47 AM

Getting a hummer from a fat pasty white chick???

BigWyo on January 10, 2014 at 12:45 PM

Thanks for your service.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:44 PM

Can you just feel the sincerity here???

BigWyo on January 10, 2014 at 12:46 PM

Come to think of it. What did obama do on last Thanksgiving. Oh yeah, visited hunger striking illegal aliens. That was so, so, so brave.

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 12:43 PM

Brave or not, it was a nice gesture. The troops don’t need their holiday disrupted by a filthy lazy stupid coward who sends them to their deaths because it helps him politically. Hanging out with the parasites who epitomize Obama’s America is a better place for him to have gone.

Happy Nomad on January 10, 2014 at 12:47 PM

Del Dolemonte on January 10, 2014 at 12:32 PM

Thanks for the laugh. That had a few incredibly powerful lines in it too, like “on the prospect that sheep would succeed” :)

Schadenfreude on January 10, 2014 at 12:49 PM

Getting a hummer from a fat pasty white chick???

BigWyo on January 10, 2014 at 12:45 PM

Getting a hummer from a fat pasty white chick (other than his wife)???

Sometimes, clarity is more important than at other times.

Happy Nomad on January 10, 2014 at 12:49 PM

I’m not the one confusing facts and opinions.
But is that the best you can offer in response?
Ok.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:40 PM

Your favorite response when you can’t answer.

You claimed interrogation didn’t work. Penetta, one of your heroes, (and the real administration man most responsible for UBL taking a dirt nap or salt bath) claimed otherwise. So, the original retort to your pathetic, dismissive comment, again …

Are you rejecting known facts and inserting your opinion?

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 12:49 PM

It’s been well established that EIT was unneeded and ineffective.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:34 PM

That’s a lie right there.

Bitter Clinger on January 10, 2014 at 12:38 PM

Not at all.
There are a few torture apologists who try and spin otherwise, but EIT was not a factor. The info KSM provided that helped came long after EIT was stopped by Bush…during normal interrogation.
Even Rumsfeld says:
“It is true that some information that came from normal interrogation approaches at Guantánamo did lead to information that was beneficial in this instance. But it was not harsh treatment and it was not waterboarding.”

To be clear…my point is that even IF it was factor, it doesn’t excuse it. But in this case it wasn’t a factor.
I understand for your argument why you need it to be one much much more than I need it not to be for my argument.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:49 PM

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 12:43 PM
Thanks for your service.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:44 PM

Thanks. And thank you for yours.

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 12:50 PM

I’ve but one thing to say, thank you for your service Sir.

DDay on January 10, 2014 at 12:50 PM

Thanks for your service.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:44 PM

Can you just feel the sincerity here???

BigWyo on January 10, 2014 at 12:46 PM

I hope Hawkdriver does. Not concerned if you don’t.
I understand we live in a cynical world.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:52 PM

Can you just feel the sincerity here???

BigWyo on January 10, 2014 at 12:46 PM

You always have to assume it’s sincere.

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 12:53 PM

You always have to assume it’s sincere.

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 12:53 PM

I suppose that’s the best way to go.

I hope Hawkdriver does. Not concerned if you don’t.
I understand we live in a cynical world.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:52 PM

I’ll see your ‘not concerned’ and raise you a ‘not concerned’ that your not concerned.

BigWyo on January 10, 2014 at 12:57 PM

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:49 PM

I don’t really give a rat’s hind end what Rumsfeld said, it was effective and therefore, needed. Otherwise, there would be have been no need for it. Why bother if doesn’t work?

Bitter Clinger on January 10, 2014 at 12:58 PM

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 12:43 PM
Thanks for your service.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:44 PM

Thanks. And thank you for yours.

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 12:50 PM

Ok…sarcasm noted.
You’re correct that I didn’t serve.
Your call if those of us who didn’t can opine and discuss or not.
If not, ignore.
I was sincere with the ‘thanks’.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:59 PM

Verbaluce. You once said you wouldn’t exchange with me anymore because I was course and rude. It was my opinion that when you stated that, it was really because you get backed into a corner and your argument runs out of steam.

Let me ask you one more time. Are you sticking with your assertion that enhanced interrogation techniques did not yield actionable intelligence in the mission to kill UBL?

Yes or No?

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 1:01 PM

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:49 PM

I don’t really give a rat’s hind end what Rumsfeld said, it was effective and therefore, needed. Otherwise, there would be have been no need for it. Why bother if doesn’t work?

Bitter Clinger on January 10, 2014 at 12:58 PM

You’re ind of asking yourself questions now.
But that’s welcome.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 1:01 PM

Thanks. And thank you for yours.

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 12:50 PM

Ouch.

Hey verbie rose in rank to Commandant of the Rape-Free Zone in the OWS wars of 2011 and he was awarded a Hero of the OWS Federation medal for his actions in the battle of Zuccotti Park when he suffered a flesh wound while crapping on a cop car.

A true American hero.

HumpBot Salvation on January 10, 2014 at 1:01 PM

You’re kind of asking yourself questions now.
But that’s welcome.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 1:01 PM

(fixed)

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 1:02 PM

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:59 PM

It was my impression you did serve.

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 1:02 PM

Intermission. The cutest cat video on YouTube.

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 1:06 PM

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 12:59 PM

It was my impression you did serve.

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 1:02 PM

No…I did not.
Hope I didn’t in any way infer that.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 1:07 PM

Waterboarding clearly is not in that league.

fadetogray on January 10, 2014 at 11:33 AM

Khalid Sheikh Mohammed does not look worse for the wear.

Kafir on January 10, 2014 at 1:08 PM

Do you have a catalog for what Bush and Cheney were doing during all the times troops were in harms way during their time in office? No…of course you don’t.)

verbaloon on January 10, 2014 at 12:34 PM

Didn’t Bush serve the troops in Iraq a fake turkey? You’re our resident expert on fake birds.

Del Dolemonte on January 10, 2014 at 1:08 PM

Let me ask you one more time. Are you sticking with your assertion that enhanced interrogation techniques did not yield actionable intelligence in the mission to kill UBL?

Yes or No?

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 1:01 PM

Yes

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 1:09 PM

Even Rumsfeld says:

verbaloon on January 10, 2014 at 12:49 PM

LOL! Citing a guy your own Party calls a War Criminal shows your utter desperation.

The War Crimes Case Against Donald Rumsfeld

A+

Del Dolemonte on January 10, 2014 at 1:12 PM

You’re kind of asking yourself questions now.
But that’s welcome.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 1:01 PM

Hardly, but your inability to answer says plenty about your argument.

Bitter Clinger on January 10, 2014 at 1:12 PM

Rizzo’s most controversial decision was to write a memo that got the Bush administration to approve waterboarding as a technique to break resistance to interrogation, a decision for which Rizzo expresses no regret

Good for him! It was the right thing to do and should have been used on more than just three of them.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 10, 2014 at 1:13 PM

I wish that people like you could try to be as intellectually honest.

blink on January 10, 2014 at 1:10 PM

Well I try to be.
You assume I support and cheer Obama’s drone policy?

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 1:13 PM

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 1:01 PM
Yes

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 1:09 PM

Your man, Leon Penetta disagrees. Of course you’re going to have to consider that this right-wing nut should only be taken with a grain of salt.

Penetta quoted in Telegraph.

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 1:13 PM

2 in the head and no conscience problems.

StevC on January 10, 2014 at 1:15 PM

Let me ask you one more time. Are you sticking with your assertion that enhanced interrogation techniques did not yield actionable intelligence in the mission to kill UBL?

Yes or No?

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 1:01 PM

Yes

verbaloon on January 10, 2014 at 1:09 PM

msnbc.com

Intelligence garnered from waterboarded detainees was used to track down al-Qaida leader Osama bin Laden and kill him, CIA Chief Leon Panetta told NBC News on Tuesday.

“Enhanced interrogation techniques” were used to extract information that led to the mission’s success, Panetta said during an interview with anchor Brian Williams. Those techniques included waterboarding, he acknowledged.

Discuss.

Del Dolemonte on January 10, 2014 at 1:16 PM

Waterboarding is not torture for a large number of reasons, however I have always stated that America shouldn’t be using it as an interrogation technique. America needs to continue to be the shining example of how prisoners are treated – even prisoners that don’t qualify as enemy combatants.

blink on January 10, 2014 at 1:10 PM

Winning a war waged on us is not about being “a shining example” of anything other than the ruthless pursuit of victory. We are a shining example (or were, at least, in how our society operated amongst ourselves, not in giving enemies any more chances to destroy us.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 10, 2014 at 1:17 PM

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 1:01 PM
blink on January 10, 2014 at 1:13 PM

On EIT…my position is that it wasn’t a factor in the eventual finding/killing of Obama.
But as this debate seems to distract from the main one, for the sake of argument I theoretically concede that EIT was a factor.
Hopefully this helps narrow/focus the debate?

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 1:19 PM

I don’t really give a rat’s hind end what Rumsfeld said, it was effective and therefore, needed. Otherwise, there would be have been no need for it. Why bother if doesn’t work?

Bitter Clinger

Don’t fall for his BS. The quote from Rumsfeld doesn’t say anything about harsh interrogation not working. The quote from Rumsfeld doesn’t say no actionable intelligence was gathered from waterboarding. The quote from Rumsfeld doesn’t say actionable intelligence was only gathered from normal interrogation techniques.

In the quote, Rumsfeld said some intelligence was gathered with normal interrogation techniques. Well duh. No one has ever said otherwise. What does that have to do with the success of waterboarding? Nothing, that’s what. In no way shape or form does this quote prove no information was gathered via waterboarding. But then, that is a favorite technique of intellectually dishonest hacks on the left like verbaldouche. They like to make a claim, then post a quote or something that has nothing to do with the original claim as proof that the original claim is correct. In short, they lie.

xblade on January 10, 2014 at 1:21 PM

On EIT…my position is that it wasn’t a factor in the eventual finding/killing of Obama.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 1:19 PM

Obama is dead?

Schadenfreude on January 10, 2014 at 1:22 PM

Also, were do you sit with respect to other interrogation tactics? Do you oppose questioning someone for more than 15 minutes at a time? What about the use of heavy metal music for hours at a time? Are you opposed to long stretches of detention in the absence of a conviction?

blink on January 10, 2014 at 1:16 PM

I am against inflicting pain or terror..e.g. the iminent threat of death or great harm.
I don’t see it as a blurry line – my guess is you don’t either.
I don’t think detainees should be punched in the face. That doesn’t mean I equate that with water-boarding, which is torture by any logical application of the word and concept.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 1:23 PM

On EIT…my position is that it wasn’t a factor in the eventual finding/killing of Obama.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 1:19 PM

It’s short. You have to watch until the end.

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 1:24 PM

On EIT…my position is that it wasn’t a factor in the eventual finding/killing of Obama.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 1:19 PM

Obama is dead?

Schadenfreude on January 10, 2014 at 1:22 PM

Facepalm.
(rogerb will keep this one forever.)

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 1:26 PM

On EIT…my position is that it wasn’t a factor in the eventual finding/killing of Obama.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 1:19 PM

Obama is dead?

Schadenfreude on January 10, 2014 at 1:22 PM

LOL.

He has the same problem Ted Kennedy once did. Couldn’t keep the names straight.

Bitter Clinger on January 10, 2014 at 1:27 PM

On EIT…my position is that it wasn’t a factor in the eventual finding/killing of Obama.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 1:19 PM

It’s short. You have to watch until the end.

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 1:24 PM

I will.
BUT…have to run. Off to a conference…torture of another kind.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 1:28 PM

In short, they lie.

xblade on January 10, 2014 at 1:21 PM

Indeed.

Bitter Clinger on January 10, 2014 at 1:29 PM

however I have always stated that America shouldn’t be using it as an interrogation technique. ……

blink on January 10, 2014 at 1:10 PM

I have not, but you were right on this one. Sometimes the price is terrible, but it is a price worth paying.

On the other hand, I’m all for sending terrorists back to their home countries when those countries are our allies and will deal with the terrorists appropriately to the standards of their own society. We shouldn’t judge.

fadetogray on January 10, 2014 at 1:31 PM

I will.
BUT…have to run. Off to a conference…torture of another kind.

verbaluce on January 10, 2014 at 1:28 PM

Well that is convenient. (kidding) No really.

Bottom line up front.

This was the Director of the CIA, the man that made the call to kill UBL speaking about the intelligence he used to made his decision. His only caveat was whether or not other methods might have yielded the “same information” that Enhanced Interrogation Methods provided in the ultimate locating and eliminating of UBL.

You will have to concede this point.

You are wrong. Unless, you are indeed rejecting known facts and inserting your own opinion. Can you? Sure. In the context of, “I didn’t like the fact that EITs were used and instrumental in the locating and eliminating of UBL.” But you cannot deny it didn’t yield actionable information.

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 1:36 PM

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 1:36 PM

Or you’re calling Leon Penetta a liar. Lying about what would be one of the biggest embarrassing concessions Bush-hating liberals would have to make.

Most of us here love Leon Penetta, so I hope you’re not doing that.

2nd Intermission. Funny YouTube Goats.

hawkdriver on January 10, 2014 at 1:41 PM

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