Quotes of the day

posted at 10:41 pm on January 8, 2014 by Allahpundit

The tough-talking governor has been accusing of bullying behavior before and critics say this is the latest example of a leader who uses retribution if he doesn’t get his way. Christie has always said voters appreciate his brashness, but opponents critique it’s not a style that will play outside the Garden State.

Democratic State Assemblyman John McKeon criticized the governor on a radio program in 2010 and was surprised to get a handwritten note from Christie explaining his displeasure, something he said could be seen as threatening and also highlighted in a New York Times story last month that mentioned several examples of behavior that could be viewed as bullying.

“You would hope the head of any organization sets the tone for the people around him,” McKeon told ABC News, referring to the Christie staffers implicated in the scandal. “The utilization of government resources for political retribution, that is sacrosanct and it is something that should never, ever be tolerated.”

***

Former New Jersey governor Tom Kean Sr., a longtime associate of Gov. Chris Christie (R-N.J.), tells The Washington Post that he hopes Christie will move swiftly to provide answers about e-mails and text messages suggesting Christie’s appointees retaliated against a Democratic mayor by creating a traffic jam.

“My advice to him: get it all out now,” Kean said, in a phone interview from his office in New Jersey. “He cannot let some committee, or the press, pull out these problems piece by piece. Let’s get the whole story on the table. If mistakes were made, admit it. If he doesn’t, it’s going to be like water torture.”

***

“I think the worst is yet to come,” said New Jersey Democrat Bill Pascrell, who represents the town that was turned into a parking lot last year when some of the bridge’s lanes were abruptly closed for four days. “I don’t think we’ve seen all of it at all. I’m so happy that it’s unfolding slowly, like an onion opening up. You always get more facts that way — not to refer to the governor as an onion, but he’s been referred to as worse things.”…

Pascrell defended Kelly, saying he has worked with her before but stopped short of saying he thought Christie personally directed her to coordinate the shutdown.

“She did not just wake up one morning and decide let’s screw up the traffic in Fort Lee, we’ll teach that S.O.B,” Pascrell said. “That isn’t what happened.”

***

“I do not believe for a minute that Chris Christie knew about this, and if he had known about it, he would have stopped it,” said Fred Malek, a top GOP fundraiser who works with Christie on the Republican Governors Association. “This is a bush-league tactic that is far below a man of his character and sophistication. It’s not an acceptable practice and he needs to deal with it decisively.”…

At risk is nothing less than Christie’s very political identity, which he had controlled so well to this point. A credible governor — or president — doesn’t act like a local political boss, and while Republicans have long lambasted President Barack Obama as a typical Chicago machine politician, they never really caught him acting like one. With stories of Christie’s team’s penchant for vengeance starting to pile up — and Democrats more motivated to highlight the tales than when they rolled over for him in 2013 — time is short for him to wrestle back control of his story.

“Democrats are besides themselves that they gave Christie a free pass to define himself in 2013 on very favorable terms,” one prominent Republican strategist told TIME. “They’re going to spend 2014 making up for lost time. It’s only going to get worse from here on out.”

***

If he doesn’t fix this “bridge scandal,” are his presidential campaign plans doomed to failure? Probably. Here’s what the story tells us:

1) Christie surrounded himself with a crowd that couldn’t care less about the people of New Jersey at the same time as he was lauded for his “no partisanship here” response to Hurricane Sandy.

2) Christie, normally politically astute, may now be forever associated with traffic jams, something that everyone hates.

3) Christie’s penchant for tough politicking (as he might spin it) plays horribly on the national stage.

4) Christie’s entire self-created public image, that of a fearless, straight-talking, get-it-done guy with no tolerance for politics or bullshit, has been entirely subverted.

***

in recent years, Christie had worked hard to soften his image, to telegraph that his bluntness and outspokenness was being offered on behalf of voters, and to reassure everyone that he wasn’t a big, mean jerk. He was greatly aided in this project by his response to Hurricane Sandy, his highly public empathy for its victims, and his praise of President Obama in the closing days of the 2012 campaign…

What’s so damaging about these revelations to Christie is that they expose him and his brain trust as breathtakingly venal and vindictive. Respectable politicians don’t block ambulances to retaliate at political opponents (in the parlance of right-wing talk-radio hosts, that’s called “bare-knuckle Chicago politics” and is only practiced by Democrats). The messages also shatter Christie’s carefully constructed image as a “nice” jerk fighting for the little guy. They show that he is, in fact, an entirely different kind of jerk, and that the little guy can go to hell.

***

Nobody likes a tyrant. Especially Republican primary voters. Especially in the wake of the Obama administration’s IRS scandal and its selective enforcement of Obamacare. Most Americans still believe in the quaint notion that we are all equal under the law, and that ours is a country of laws, not men. Republican primary voters may expect this kind of abuse of power from Democrats, but they won’t tolerate it within their own ranks…

A major part of Christie’s appeal among Republicans is his willingness to stick it to certain liberal special interest groups like public employees’ unions. Conservatives take comfort in knowing that one of their guys knows how to throw a punch. But nobody likes it when their own side starts getting beat up. Christie’s team didn’t just target a potential political opponent for revenge, they targeted his own voters. This incident could very well suggest to a lot of GOP primary voters that Christie’s brashness might have a big downside…

There’s a certain amount of rough-and-tumble, back-and-forth backbiting that’s expected from the kind of people who choose to spend their lives trying to accumulate as much power as possible. As a result, backroom maneuvering to remove some political privileges enjoyed by one’s opponent probably wouldn’t draw a second glance. But that’s not what Christie’s top aides did. They deliberately chose to target innocent civilians: moms and dads trying to get to work on time, school bus drivers trying to get children to school, first responders trying to take ill people to the hospital.

***

This is a political problem for Christie, but more importantly, it’s a leadership test. Since the governor arrived on the national stage, he has given various ad hoc seminars on leadership and the qualities required for greatness. He talks a great deal about the topic and offers himself as an expert. Before he became partners with Barack Obama in responding to Hurricane Sandy, he gave a very astringent critique of the president’s shortcomings. Recently Christie advised the president to apologize for his promise that if people wanted to keep their insurance they would be allowed to. “When you make a mistake, you should own up to it and apologize for it,” he said…

As a political matter, if Christie handles the fallout with skill, you could see voters finding their way to a rationalization. Sure, he is a little messy, but that’s why he gets results! The truth of leadership is that you want a president who can be a bit of a bully. As former Defense Secretary Robert Gates says in his new memoir, President Obama and President Bush both had problems with Congress because neither was liked or feared. But that obviously only goes so far. We also don’t want presidents who abuse their power. The Fort Lee emails are a classic case of that. Christie was already a lock to win his 2013 re-election race and therefore didn’t really need the mayoral endorsement. If a top aide to the governor can waste public money in an act of petty vindictiveness, imagine what might happen with real power—power of the kind we have all been debating in the wake of disclosures about the NSA’s ability to monitor American citizens. On the other hand, if Christie hires staffers who were dumb enough to say this kind of thing on email, perhaps general competence is the bigger worry.

***

In reality, I’ve never known a governor without a long list of local opponents, enemies and plain chuckleheads who constantly drive him or her batty. Most governors spend a lot of time tussling with their hometown versions of Seinfeld’s accursed Newman, and dreaming of fixing said irritant’s political wagon once and for all.

I’ve also never known a governor with a political staff that did not take immense joy in the political pain and suffering of said opponents. In the rough-and-tumble personality-driven cauldron of New Jersey politics, this sort of battling is particularly ordinary. While in this case the wagon-fixers may have gone overboard, I doubt many people will be that shocked, shocked that hardball is alive and well in New Jersey.

My prediction? The whole thing will blow over. Sure, the media will howl for a week and the mayor of Fort Lee will spend the next two years darkly plotting ways to poison Christie’s good name in New Hampshire.

But Christie has already blasted the main chortling staffer in question. The circus will move on.

***

***


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You’d rather your political ideology die on principle than thrive using tactics basically no different than your opponents?

hawkdriver on January 9, 2014 at 8:40 AM

My political ideology is as simple as following the constitution. That won’t happen as long as we depend on politicians like Chris Christie to police themselves. I really couldn’t care what his political fortunes in New Jersey are after this. But no, I don’t want him to run for president and I don’t think he will in 2016 because now I don’t think he can. It is what it is.

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 8:58 AM

Christie looks to be burnt toast. Wonder what rino dweeb the state run media is going to salivate over to drag across the repub primary finish line, so they can slander and flambe until the Nov. 2016 now?

onomo on January 9, 2014 at 8:59 AM

hawkdriver on January 9, 2014 at 8:40 AM
Watch “true conservatives” line right up with the Dems on this. Makes them feel all principled and stuff….

Priscilla on January 9, 2014 at 8:50 AM

Yeah, I’m not much on the “true conservative” meme applied to anyone. I’m one of those you’d probably label that if you ever have the the misfortune of reading my views on social issues. But I think any/all true Conservatives could agree, it’s time to stand up for each other. There’s no profit in doing the media and the Donks job for them.

hawkdriver on January 9, 2014 at 9:00 AM

hawkdriver on January 9, 2014 at 8:40 AM
My political ideology is as simple as following the constitution. That won’t happen as long as we depend on politicians like Chris Christie to police themselves. I really couldn’t care what his political fortunes in New Jersey are after this. But no, I don’t want him to run for president and I don’t think he will in 2016 because now I don’t think he can. It is what it is.

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 8:58 AM

Who’s your guy them? Who fits your bill?

hawkdriver on January 9, 2014 at 9:01 AM

Look people, I’m not calling for Christie’s head on a pike. I’m not calling for his gubernatorial resignation. I am merely pointing out that I was right about him some two-and-a-half years ago while Ann Coulter was politi-gasming over the thought of a Chris Christie run in 2012. That’s it. He’s already toast. He doesn’t need my help.

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 9:03 AM

Who’s your guy “then”?

hawkdriver on January 9, 2014 at 9:04 AM

Who’s your guy them? Who fits your bill?

hawkdriver on January 9, 2014 at 9:01 AM

Why do I need a “guy?” The politicians have failed us. And not just once or twice or ten times. Over and over and over again the populace bends over, drops trou, and collectively asks, “Thank you! May I pleas have another?” It never fails! Every two years!

I am taking steps locally in my city, county and state to try to make sure that when shit hits the fan, we will be somewhat locally insulated from the worst effects of the coming crash, but DC? Shit, I gave up on DC after the 2012 elections. I’m through looking for the next great white conservative hope. Chris Christie is nothing to me but another on my laundry list of see-i-told-you-sos.

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 9:05 AM

Okay, fine. I’ll tell you who my guy is. His initials are GFY.

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 9:05 AM

Okay, fine. I’ll tell you who my guy is. His initials are GFY.

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 9:05 AM

Uncalled for. May I be honest?

hawkdriver on January 9, 2014 at 9:08 AM

Christie looks to be burnt toast. Wonder what rino dweeb the state run media is going to salivate over to drag across the repub primary finish line, so they can slander and flambe until the Nov. 2016 now?

onomo on January 9, 2014 at 8:59 AM

I asked that same question upthread and the response I received were Mayor Bloomberg and Jeb Bush.

esr1951 on January 9, 2014 at 9:08 AM

Everyone who ever “had a guy” in these threads just ends up getting disappointed when they get f***ed over. Rubio. McCain. Boehner. A whole caucus of Republican men who have less in the way of balls than Sarah Palin does. This is not a recipe for success.

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 9:08 AM

Uncalled for. May I be honest?

hawkdriver on January 9, 2014 at 9:08 AM

I’ve never known you to be anything but honest, right or wrong. ;)

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 9:09 AM

Did things get better or worse under unified Republican federal leadership? Did health care in Mass-uh-chew-sits get better or worse under Romney? Will our immigration enforcement get better or worse if Marco Rubio gets his way? Will Congress become more or less corrupt after John McCain retires? How about some honesty in this regard? And if your honest answer is “it’s the best we can do,” you’re making a pretty good case for the dissolution of the Republican party.

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 9:12 AM

The progressive media machine either covers up or applauds such behavior when dems do such things. Republicans should be removed from office, even if they weren’t aware it was happening, because they should have known or can’t be trusted to hire the right people, or are closet racists, or fill in the blank ____________________.

The real goal is to remove non-progressives from power. Unlike real scandals such as Fast and Furious, Benghazi, etc…, this story will live large and loud in the media until Christie is out of politics.

ROCnPhilly on January 9, 2014 at 9:23 AM

The real goal is to remove non-progressives from power. Unlike real scandals such as Fast and Furious, Benghazi, etc…, this story will live large and loud in the media until Christie is out of politics.

ROCnPhilly on January 9, 2014 at 9:23 AM

Christie is a progressive. Make no mistake. He’s just not their progressive.

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 9:26 AM

hawkdriver on January 9, 2014 at 9:08 AM
I’ve never known you to be anything but honest, right or wrong. ;)

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 9:09 AM

Wrong in my opinion maybe. Rarely wrong on the facts I think. I try hard to separate what I offer as facts from my opinion. But here’s some rank opinion.

Not sure why you’d be more comfortable telling me to “GFY” rather than just saying. “Okay, fair question, I like Cruz.” or Rubio. Or Palin. That seems tough. But really, I can’t recall you ever conceding some revelation about what or who you really believe in. I know you purport to be a big Palin fan, but your support for Conservatism seems to stop on a dime squarely on her.

I’ve followed your comments a long time. Even in periods when I haven’t had the time to comment much myself. I will concede I do not get you. I will further concede I do not have a clue to what your actual political motivations are in commenting here; or your real ideology. But your commentary in general “to me” seems to serve mostly to knock down most GOP politicians and their leadership rather than provide some positive aspect in voting Conservative or Republican. I don’t recall ever reading your up-side to the GOP or on any action they’ve taken. Frankly, I don’t recall you ever making a positive case for anything associated with the GOP. Maybe it’s just me and I’ve not read your recent stuff, but you seem perpetually disgusted with everything they do. Admittedly, I’m not a Republican myself and I do criticize their more progressive social stances. But I will support them every time as it applies to defeating these progressive democrat extremists.

I’m not a Christy fan, but he’s better than whatever the Donks would shove into the governors seat in Jersey. Perhaps someday you could enlighten us as to who your political heros are. Perhaps you could do one of your famous in-depth analyses on yourself and let us know what you believe in and not just what you disbelieve in. You’re still in a suspicious category of folks here that claim to want to defeat liberalism but ironically, only offer commentary that serves to weaken the people opposing it. Which, is forever curious.

hawkdriver on January 9, 2014 at 9:28 AM

But I think any/all true Conservatives could agree, it’s time to stand up for each other. There’s no profit in doing the media and the Donks job for them.

hawkdriver on January 9, 2014 at 9:00 AM

Hawk, I agree conservatives should stand up for each other, but Christie is most definitely not one. If anything, his goal is to break the back of the conservative movement. I’ll say this flat out – when I say that there is no difference between Christie (or Boehner, or McConnell) and Democrats, I really believe it.

So no, I have no real problem with Christie getting trashed in the media. And to be frank he deserves it. This is the same kind of thing Obama was doing – using the government as a club to make life harder for ordinary citizens for what were ultimately petty and selfish reasons.

Doomberg on January 9, 2014 at 9:35 AM

A caller on Beck’s show just named this scandal, Fat and Furious.

RandallinHerndon on January 9, 2014 at 9:37 AM

Doomberg on January 9, 2014 at 9:35 AM

If the magnitude of obama’s corruption was limited to causing a traffic jam, I’d concede your point.

hawkdriver on January 9, 2014 at 9:38 AM

Christie is a progressive. Make no mistake. He’s just not their progressive.

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 9:26 AM

I agree that the John Podesta-Georgy Shwartz Collective realizes that, but I’m not sure the average web-”journalist” does. The progs need Republican progressives, but not in executive roles, to better simulate a government “by and for the people”. Just as the Harlem Globetrotters need the Washington Capitals to simulate a basketball game.

ROCnPhilly on January 9, 2014 at 9:39 AM

Doomberg on January 9, 2014 at 9:35 AM

Please. Christie’s goal is to “break the back of the conservative movement”??

Not to win the Presidency? Not payback to the skeezy little Dem mayor of Fort Lee, who is up to his eyeballs in graft and corruption? Not to position himself as the Great Moderate GOP hope?

Just as liberals cry “racism!” over everything, conservatives cry “RINO.” And, make no mistake, joining with the Dems to destroy Christie is not going to further conservatism one whit. Quite the opposite. Progressives see purist conservatives, not politicians like Christie, as useful idiots.

Priscilla on January 9, 2014 at 9:56 AM

Priscilla on January 9, 2014 at 9:56 AM

That cuts both ways. Moderates in the GOP are swearing to relegate anyone with a social Conservative bent to obscurity. Moderates are advancing progressive social ideologies by demanding Social Conservatives stop advancing any notion of societal norms they might have.

Moderates cry “TrueCon” and “Socons”.

Where Donks beat us every time is circling the wagons. We just suck at it. The media aids them, but we still just suck at it.

hawkdriver on January 9, 2014 at 10:05 AM

Christie is the next Romney, a moderate sellout who conservatives will not come to the polls for. Leave him in that Northeast Craphole, New Jersey. He’s a good fit there.

SurferDoc on January 9, 2014 at 10:12 AM

The irony of people wailing about this, on the same day we hear from Gates that Obama sent soldiers to die for his political advantage is disheartening, to say the least.

Priscilla on January 9, 2014 at 8:14 AM

Democrats sending soldiers to die for political gain is Democrat standard operating procedure, and everyone who isn’t dependent on them (and so are oblivious to it no matter how deeply their noses get rubbed in it – yes, that 47%) already knows it.

fadetogray on January 9, 2014 at 10:27 AM

hawkdriver on January 9, 2014 at 10:05 AM

Sorry to jump in the middle of a good debate..But have you moved into your new home??..:)

Dire Straits on January 9, 2014 at 10:28 AM

Where Donks beat us every time is circling the wagons. We just suck at it. The media aids them, but we still just suck at it.

hawkdriver on January 9, 2014 at 10:05 AM

Agree 1000%

Priscilla on January 9, 2014 at 10:29 AM

Where Donks beat us every time is circling the wagons. We just suck at it. The media aids them, but we still just suck at it.

hawkdriver on January 9, 2014 at 10:05 AM

Yes, and I blame the ‘moderates.’ I am really coming to despise them. You don’t see conservative leaders like Palin slinging the kind of vile attacks against guys like John McCain that guys like McCain routinely throw our way.

Sure, there are commenters raging on blogs who say nasty things, but not our leaders.

Conservatives are getting tired of that. I, for one, am sick to death of it.

This election in 2014 is the best one to teach them some manners. If we don’t do it now, we will never do it.

And, btw, conservatives (other than the ones trapped in NJ) do not benefit from having a slightly less progressive governor in New Jersey who routinely slams conservatives.

fadetogray on January 9, 2014 at 10:33 AM

Watch “true conservatives” line right up with the Dems on this. Makes them feel all principled and stuff….

Priscilla on January 9, 2014 at 8:50 AM

If Christy is involved with this, then he should go. Not because the donks want a scalp. He should go for being an idiot. A petty idiot at that.

Putting enough fools in office with the right letter behind their name won’t get you better government or a better country. The only thing that will clean up the mess we’ve created is electing a group of talented, honest and capable people who will do the right thing and then go home. Hopefully making way for more talented, honest and capable individuals.

If you continue to think that a government of people with an (R) after their name will be great just because they have a magic (R) you’re in for a lot of disappointment.

I don’t ‘feel’ principled in this. I am principled in this.

You should try it.

trigon on January 9, 2014 at 10:34 AM

I’ll just add this one last thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kGF_0JcLQ7Y

THNX’ bye.

MontanaMmmm on January 9, 2014 at 10:35 AM

I don’t ‘feel’ principled in this. I am principled in this.

You should try it.

trigon on January 9, 2014 at 10:34 AM

Typical.

Priscilla on January 9, 2014 at 10:38 AM

hawkdriver on January 9, 2014 at 10:05 AM
Sorry to jump in the middle of a good debate..But have you moved into your new home??..:)

Dire Straits on January 9, 2014 at 10:28 AM

I am and finishing the trim. Mrs. Hawkdriver (not her real name) is still having to move back and forth from our other home regularly to care for her father. She is also doing a lot to prepare for the final move and get the other house ready to sell. Thanks for asking. Seems like an eternity in getting to this point. But, we are blessed to have this though and we have been trying better to honor God for all of this good fortune and being a bit contrite for the fist shaking during the frustrating times.

hawkdriver on January 9, 2014 at 10:05 AM
Agree 1000%

Priscilla on January 9, 2014 at 10:29 AM

The most I can recall agreeing with Priscilla in a single day. Good stuff. I will quit while I’m ahead. G-day all :-)

hawkdriver on January 9, 2014 at 10:38 AM

I’m not a Christy fan, but he’s better than whatever the Donks would shove into the governors seat in Jersey. Perhaps someday you could enlighten us as to who your political heros are. Perhaps you could do one of your famous in-depth analyses on yourself and let us know what you believe in and not just what you disbelieve in. You’re still in a suspicious category of folks here that claim to want to defeat liberalism but ironically, only offer commentary that serves to weaken the people opposing it. Which, is forever curious.

hawkdriver on January 9, 2014 at 9:28 AM

But the Republican party is not opposing liberalism. Nor are any of its extant stars. That premise is where I do believe you are wrong. If pointing out that Christie is an idiot, a bully, or more likely both weakens someone who is fighting liberalism, you must first assume that he is fighting liberalism. What his staff purposely did to the people of Ft. Lee and the greater area surrounding the Washington Bridge belies that beyond any reasonable doubt.

So, let me reiterate: Either Christie knew, and he’s a bully, or he didn’t, and he’s a blithering idiot. I am not weakening him in pointing this out. He is weakening himself. And we don’t need another of his kind in the ranks of the national GOP. Period.

You of course are free to disagree as always, but go ahead and answer my question: Do you believe that we were better off under unified Republican rule while George W. Bush was president? If so, why? If not, why not? Conflating “Republican” with “conservative” is about the worst thing we can do right now if defeating liberalism is really what we want to do.

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 10:45 AM

Yes, and I blame the ‘moderates.’ I am really coming to despise them.

To clarify: The moderates I am coming to despise are the ones like McCain and Graham and Rove who routinely throw vile insults at conservatives.

I voted for Romney. I think he would have made a decent President, certainly better than most of the Presidents we’ve had in my lifetime, and I was a kid in the ’50′s.

fadetogray on January 9, 2014 at 10:46 AM

I don’t ‘feel’ principled in this. I am principled in this.

You should try it.

trigon on January 9, 2014 at 10:34 AM

That makes two of us, Trigon. There are ways to defeat liberalism that don’t depend on sending a new crop of legislators to the Great American Cesspool that is Washington DC. And the sooner the greater mass of Republican voters figure that out, the sooner we can start the effort to reclaim our freedoms in earnest.

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 10:47 AM

There are ways to defeat liberalism that don’t depend on sending a new crop of legislators to the Great American Cesspool that is Washington DC

No. Really. There aren’t.

fadetogray on January 9, 2014 at 10:50 AM

I voted for Romney. I think he would have made a decent President, certainly better than most of the Presidents we’ve had in my lifetime, and I was a kid in the ’50′s.

fadetogray on January 9, 2014 at 10:46 AM

Or he may have probably would have ended up being another George W. Bush.

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 10:50 AM

No. Really. There aren’t.

fadetogray on January 9, 2014 at 10:50 AM

Yes. Really. There are. But it takes more bravery and imagination than can be found in America these days.

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 10:52 AM

The most I can recall agreeing with Priscilla in a single day. Good stuff. I will quit while I’m ahead. G-day all :-)

hawkdriver on January 9, 2014 at 10:38 AM

LOL, thanks (I think). I actually agree with you more often than not. In principle, anyway.

Good luck with your move.

Priscilla on January 9, 2014 at 10:54 AM

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 10:50 AM

He would have been far better than Bush.

To clarify further, though, Romney was not my choice in the primaries. Being one of the better Presidents during my lifetime is not a great thing. Better than Johnson and Nixon and Carter and Clinton and Bush and Obama doesn’t mean he would have been good. I used the word decent as a comparable.

He probably would have been similar to GHWB, but he might have been much better.

My point is that it is very difficult to elect Presidents who aren’t terrible. At this point I’d be happy to get one who just doesn’t veto conservative legislation so we can concentrate on electing conservative legislators.

fadetogray on January 9, 2014 at 10:58 AM

He would have been far better than Bush.

To clarify further, though, Romney was not my choice in the primaries. Being one of the better Presidents during my lifetime is not a great thing. Better than Johnson and Nixon and Carter and Clinton and Bush and Obama doesn’t mean he would have been good. I used the word decent as a comparable.

He probably would have been similar to GHWB, but he might have been much better.

My point is that it is very difficult to elect Presidents who aren’t terrible. At this point I’d be happy to get one who just doesn’t veto conservative legislation so we can concentrate on electing conservative legislators.

fadetogray on January 9, 2014 at 10:58 AM

That is precisely what I mean when I talk about the bravery and imagination required to do what is necessary. Have you given any thought to talking to your state legislators about the concept of nullification? Even if it’s just as far as putting a bug in a few ears?

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 10:59 AM

See, this just floors me. You people talking about the next Republican hope are largely okay with tyranny as long as it’s “our guys” who are the tyrants! I can’t wrap my mind around that. Just can’t.

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 11:00 AM

You of course are free to disagree as always, but go ahead and answer my question: Do you believe that we were better off under unified Republican rule while George W. Bush was president? If so, why? If not, why not? Conflating “Republican” with “conservative” is about the worst thing we can do right now if defeating liberalism is really what we want to do.

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 10:45 AM

You made his point for him. Everything you push is bad for Republicans and good for Democrats. It does make you wonder where your loyalties lie.

smoothsailing on January 9, 2014 at 11:02 AM

Yes. Really. There are. But it takes more bravery and imagination than can be found in America these days.

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 10:52 AM

No. Really. There aren’t. At some point you have to take D.C. or you are pissing into the wind, and leaving D.C. uncontested and in the hands of the progs means whatever you are doing out in the country to try to change things will be getting mangled from D.C. at every turn.

Secession might work, but that would not be defeating the progs. It would be escaping them.

fadetogray on January 9, 2014 at 11:02 AM

You made his point for him. Everything you push is bad for Republicans and good for Democrats. It does make you wonder where your loyalties lie.

smoothsailing on January 9, 2014 at 11:02 AM

You are not listening to a word I’m saying, are you? I must assume given the evidence before me that you are okay with being lied to and having your freedoms infringed upon as long as it’s Republicans doing the lying and the infringing. Good luck with that.

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 11:09 AM

Have you given any thought to talking to your state legislators about the concept of nullification?

You really do not understand who you are fighting or how desperate the fight has become. Your thinking of the enemy as ‘liberals’ may be part of the problem. That is the one thing they most definitely are not.

fadetogray on January 9, 2014 at 11:10 AM

You really do not understand who you are fighting or how desperate the fight has become. Your thinking of the enemy as ‘liberals’ may be part of the problem. That is the one thing they most definitely are not.

fadetogray on January 9, 2014 at 11:10 AM

*snort*

Really?! The people who want to infringe my freedom, many of whom see me as an enemy to be destroyed or bought with welfare programs, are not my enemies?! It is absolutely impossible for some of these self-same people to belong to the Republican Party?!

Paging Mayor Mike Bloomberg. Mike Bloomberg, please pick up the white courtesy phone.

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 11:12 AM

You are not listening to a word I’m saying, are you? I must assume given the evidence before me that you are okay with being lied to and having your freedoms infringed upon as long as it’s Republicans doing the lying and the infringing. Good luck with that.

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 11:09 AM

When you’re as hard on liberals as you are Republicans, more people might take your intentions serious. Good luck with that.

smoothsailing on January 9, 2014 at 11:12 AM

Really. I, but a lowly armchair pundit, commenting on blogs I don’t get paid to opine for, am damaging the “Republican” brand while the lying, amnesty embracing 2nd amendment infringing bridge closing Republicans have done nothing to harm their own brand? This is all on me and people like me?

Folks, this is why we in movement conservatism can’t have nice things.

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 11:13 AM

When you’re as hard on liberals as you are Republicans, more people might take your intentions serious. Good luck with that.

smoothsailing on January 9, 2014 at 11:12 AM

What about liberal Republicans? Or are you going to tell me with a straight face that Mayor Bloomberg is a conservative because of the R after his name?

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 11:16 AM

You know, I’m really hoping and praying to God I’m getting trolled here. Because if I’m not, the state of the American electorate is far sorrier than I feared.

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 11:16 AM

You know, I’m really hoping and praying to God I’m getting trolled here. Because if I’m not, the state of the American electorate is far sorrier than I feared.

I think the rest of us are being trolled. By you. Destroying the Republican Party is what it takes to save Conservatism in your world. Talk about useful idiots.

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 11:16 AM bout tive because of R after his name?

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 11:16 AM

I thought he was an Independent.

smoothsailing on January 9, 2014 at 11:24 AM

I thought he was an Independent.

smoothsailing on January 9, 2014 at 11:24 AM

Bloomberg? An independent? Dude, you don’t get elected to Mayor of New York City on a non-partisan platform — EVER. Bloomberg has been a card-carrying Republican since decades before he hit Gracie Mansion. I think you just lost your ability to be taken seriously by me.

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 11:31 AM

smoothsailing on January 9, 2014 at 11:24 AM

Don’t take gryphon seriously. He has his shtick, and he can’t vary from it. Thoughtful reflection is the last thing on his mind.

fadetogray on January 9, 2014 at 11:45 AM

Bloomberg? An independent? Dude, you don’t get elected to Mayor of New York City on a non-partisan platform — EVER. Bloomberg has been a card-carrying Republican since decades before he hit Gracie Mansion. I think you just lost your ability to be taken seriously by me.

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 11:31

Likewise.

Mayor Michael Bloomberg.

Democratic (Before 2001)
Republican (2001–2007)
Independent (2007–present)

Do you have some informative conservative blog or something trying to educate us? We’re in trouble.

smoothsailing on January 9, 2014 at 11:50 AM

Don’t take gryphon seriously. He has his shtick, and he can’t vary from it. Thoughtful reflection is the last thing on his mind.

fadetogray on January 9, 2014 at 11:45 AM

I think he’s worse. I think he’s the slickest democrat Moby that posts here. Do a search of his crap. All GOP bashing, all the time.

smoothsailing on January 9, 2014 at 11:55 AM

LOL, thanks (I think). I actually agree with you more often than not. In principle, anyway.

Good luck with your move.

Priscilla on January 9, 2014 at 10:54 AM

You think right. Wasn’t kidding at all. It’s nice to agree when folks can.

But the Republican party is not opposing liberalism. Nor are any of its extant stars. That premise is where I do believe you are wrong. If pointing out that Christie is an idiot, a bully, or more likely both weakens someone who is fighting liberalism, you must first assume that he is fighting liberalism. What his staff purposely did to the people of Ft. Lee and the greater area surrounding the Washington Bridge belies that beyond any reasonable doubt.

So, let me reiterate: Either Christie knew, and he’s a bully, or he didn’t, and he’s a blithering idiot. I am not weakening him in pointing this out. He is weakening himself. And we don’t need another of his kind in the ranks of the national GOP. Period.

You of course are free to disagree as always, but go ahead and answer my question: Do you believe that we were better off under unified Republican rule while George W. Bush was president? If so, why? If not, why not? Conflating “Republican” with “conservative” is about the worst thing we can do right now if defeating liberalism is really what we want to do.

gryphon202 on January 9, 2014 at 10:45 AM

Yeah buddy, don’t hold your breath waiting for me to get sucked into your non-stop GOP bashing. Nice try though. Why should I answer anything from you when you avoid any and all reasoned questions directed your way?

Do you have some informative conservative blog or something trying to educate us? We’re in trouble.

smoothsailing on January 9, 2014 at 11:50 AM

You’ve got that right troop. If he’s the Conservative Movement, we’re in big trouble. But what actually makes you think he’s a moby?

hawkdriver on January 9, 2014 at 4:21 PM

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