“We don’t have time for this”: Cop allegedly kills North Carolina teen who was already tased and restrained

posted at 3:21 pm on January 7, 2014 by Allahpundit

Via Ace and Bearing Arms, I missed this yesterday but it deserves some belated attention. The victim, Keith Vidal, was schizophrenic, weighed 90 pounds, had already been tased, and reportedly was being held down by two officers when the shooting happened. He was armed with a “tiny screwdriver,” according to his family.

His dad claims that one cop said “we don’t have time for this” right before the kid was shot dead on the floor.

According to the report, the first unit on scene was a Boiling Spring Lakes officer who arrived at 12:34 p.m. He was joined shortly after by two additional BSL officers and a Brunswick County Sheriff’s Deputy.

The first unit on scene reported a confrontation in the hallway, but told Brunswick County Dispatchers several times that everything was OK.

Unit 104 from Southport arrived on the scene at 12:48:41, fourteen minutes after the first officer had already been on scene.

Seventy seconds later, Unit 104 radioed out that he had to fire shots at the subject in order to defend himself.

The event report mirrors what family members told the media…

Wilsey said officers had his son down on the ground after the teen was tased a few times and an officer said, “we don’t have time for this.” That’s when Wilsey says the officer shot in between the officers holding the teen down, killing his son.

A detective’s been placed on paid leave while the investigation plays out. Obvious question: Even if the cop was such a monster that he’d murder a mentally ill kid simply because he was a drag on his day, how did he think he’d get away with it with both parents right there watching? Is a suspension and murder investigation less of an inconvenience than wrestling a small teenaged boy into a squad car? If he was counting on a mom and dad to be intimidated into silence over the cold-blooded murder of their son, he was counting on an awful lot. I notice too that the dad doesn’t explicitly say it was the cop who fired the gun who said “we don’t have time for this.” One of the officers there said it. Was killing Vidal what he had in mind or were the comment and shooting unconnected?

The official story, I assume, will be that Vidal was going for a gun in the holster of one of the cops who was restraining him. Exit question: If the parents’ version is true, it can’t be the first time this has happened, right? No one would attempt a murder this cavalierly unless he was very confident, based on prior experience, that he could get away with it.


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At this point in most cases involving police shootings, we have already learned every negative feature of the encounter related to the dead person. Violent, not following commands, history of violence, a conservative known to attend gun shows, violent, etc…., with all of this information coming from the police and/or the District Attorney.

So far, the “state” hasn’t uttered a sound about the actions of the police or the young man (in fact, we’ve heard more info about the demeanor of the mother and father since the shooting than we’ve heard about the cops involved….funny, that eh?).

This lack of info tells me one thing. They don’t have an excuse to justify the shooting, and one (or both) of the non-shooting cops are rolling over on the shooter.

“No comment”

BobMbx on January 7, 2014 at 4:53 PM

Used to always fall on the side of assuming the cops were doing the right thing. Now I always fall on the side of assuming the cops overstepped –- because they can and, increasingly, they do. Anyone ever watch that reality show “Boston’s Finest”? I watch it and see a bunch of poorly educated bully fascists all pumped up with their power who can’t wait to shoot their fellow citizens.

Rational Thought on January 7, 2014 at 4:55 PM

They probably dialed 911. Which we are trained to do. Short test: Whats the phone number for the “Schizophrenic Adult Child Having An Episode Center” in your town…quickly now….hurry up…..your childs life depends on it….don’t make us send the police…..we’ll shoot him for ya

BobMbx on January 7, 2014 at 4:40 PM

Q: Did these parents just suddenly find out their kid was schizophrenic?

A: No. They knew he had mental problems.

Q: Did calling the police before stop this 18 year old mans outbursts of aggression?

A: No. How many times should these parents have called police before they come to the realization that this person is not safe enough to be out amongst society?

The parents should have stopped calling 911, and get their son committed. He’d be alive today.

portlandon on January 7, 2014 at 4:56 PM

I can honestly remember a time when cops bragged about how long it had been since they took their gun out of their holster. Now they are outright shooting people just to make their day easier.

JellyToast on January 7, 2014 at 4:56 PM

Actually on this website, dems kids are always in play. I am shocked you called out the obvious.

loveofcountry on January 7, 2014 at 4:24 PM

Any examples?

hollygolightly on January 7, 2014 at 4:59 PM

Police work is not particularly deadly. The cop unions love to make it out like everyday is a scene from Predator 2.

CTD on January 7, 2014 at 4:51 PM

I made NO remark claiming that police work was deadlier than any other line of work. I simply make the point that there is no reason for an officer of the law to die because some crazy person wants to kill him for being an officer of the law.

Though I must say, when you go to work every day at your insurance office, the majority of your clients are NOT out to get you.

When you go to work as an officer of the law, most of your clients ARE out to get you.

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 5:00 PM

Today cops get military weapons, military clothing, military vehicles. What they don’t have is Military discipline.
Every day our police slip a little bit closer to being nothing more than third world Paramilitary thugs.

Wallythedog on January 7, 2014 at 5:00 PM

If you as a police officer (at the time there were three officers on scene) cannot physically handle a 90lb boy who has already been tasered twice without shooting him, then you are in the wrong line of work.

Renee on January 7, 2014 at 4:52 PM

This does not hold water when dealing with a schizophrenic who fears for his life. That schizophrenic can quickly overpower those who are bigger and stronger.

Ever hear the stories of wimpy little people who pick up cars off someone they love? That can really happen. Adrenalin can do scary things. Clearly you do not understand the physiology at play here.

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 5:02 PM

Today cops get military weapons, military clothing, military vehicles. What they don’t have is Military discipline.
Every day our police slip a little bit closer to being nothing more than third world Paramilitary thugs.

Wallythedog on January 7, 2014 at 5:00 PM

Very well said. Totally agree.

Rational Thought on January 7, 2014 at 5:02 PM

Q: Did these parents just suddenly find out their kid was schizophrenic?

A: No. They knew he had mental problems.

Whats your point? Are you blaming the parents for the cop killing their son? That pretty outrageous.

Q: Did calling the police before stop this 18 year old mans outbursts of aggression?

A: No. How many times should these parents have called police before they come to the realization that this person is not safe enough to be out amongst society?

Link please. You’ll need to show where anyone has stated Vidal had been violent (or aggressive) at anytime in his past. Otherwise you just made that up. Oh, and let us know how many times the police were called prior to that day. You seem to have a great deal of info no one else has.

The parents should have stopped calling 911, and get their son committed. He’d be alive today.

portlandon on January 7, 2014 at 4:56 PM

You just answered my first question. You are blaming the parents for Corporal Itchy Finger’s solution.

Way to go, Port.

BobMbx on January 7, 2014 at 5:03 PM

Not true. If he killed with premeditation, then it is first degree murder. If he killed in cold blood, then it is 2d degree at worst.
GWB on January 7, 2014 at 4:51 PM

I suspect it won’t be hard to introduce premeditation, especially if the facts as we know them are correct. Someone apparently thought the SOP when it’s late and you’re getting near the end of your shift is to hold down a suspect and execute him on the spot. i.e. the mindset was in place beforehand. Or, the officer could plead temporary insanity or whatever non compos mentis option may be available.

At any rate, the shooter’s life as he knew it is pretty much over no matter what legal procedures come from this. At the very least, he’ll be signing whatever checks come his way over to the victim’s family, probably for the rest of his life.

whatcat on January 7, 2014 at 5:04 PM

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 5:00 PM

Cops are not now and, for a LONG Time – have NOT BEEN in the Service of Protecting The Health and Safety of The Public…..

They are DEDICATED to the Service of Protecting The Health, Safety and POSITION of The Unions and The Union BOSSES.

Summarily executing someone – like these Cops/Union Representative Promulgated on this innocent child – should be likewise allowed to be promulgated on them to instantaneously address Cop Misconduct.

williamg on January 7, 2014 at 5:07 PM

This does not hold water when dealing with a schizophrenic who fears for his life. That schizophrenic can quickly overpower those who are bigger and stronger.

Ever hear the stories of wimpy little people who pick up cars off someone they love? That can really happen. Adrenalin can do scary things. Clearly you do not understand the physiology at play here.

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 5:02 PM

If there was any suggestion of an out-of-control, superman type of psychotic episode in the house on that day, it would be the only thing we would be hearing on the news, and the Sheriff and DA would be holding press conferences by the shipload to get that headline out there. Since no one has said it, I’ll take the position that its not the case at all.

“No comment”

BobMbx on January 7, 2014 at 5:08 PM

The parents should have stopped calling 911, and get their son committed. He’d be alive today.

portlandon on January 7, 2014 at 4:56 PM

They probably tried. The mental health system does not have room for these people and the family probably heard repeatedly “we have no beds”. Families are forced to deal with this stuff because no mental health agency will step in until AFTER a tragedy happens.

Same with my brother the law officer, who died in one of these situations. The parents had been trying to have the schizo committed (the one who killed my brother) for quite some time. The mental health laws did not allow for people to be committed against their will. The mentally ill have their rights, you know. The healthy can just go suck eggs until a sicko shoots them or stabs them or slashes their throat or goes on a mass-shooting rampage…

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 5:08 PM

At any rate, the shooter’s life as he knew it is pretty much over no matter what legal procedures come from this. At the very least, he’ll be signing whatever checks come his way over to the victim’s family, probably for the rest of his life.

whatcat on January 7, 2014 at 5:04 PM

Thats a fantasy. 40-50 years ago? Maybe. Today? Not a chance. This guy will get a medal for “bravery” for saving the lives of two other officers.

BobMbx on January 7, 2014 at 5:09 PM

no officer should have to give up a life trying to defend society.

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 4:30 PM

I don’t necessarily agree with that. If a cop is worried about making it home, then he needs to find work doing something else. I work with amounts of radiation that would probably frighten most of you, but below the legal limit. I know the dangers, and I chose this line of work. If I don’t like these conditions then I need to find a different career.

DFCtomm on January 7, 2014 at 5:09 PM

This lack of info tells me one thing. They don’t have an excuse to justify the shooting, and one (or both) of the non-shooting cops are rolling over on the shooter.
“No comment”
BobMbx on January 7, 2014 at 4:53 PM

That’s what I was thinking, if there were no valid reason for this to happen the officers that restrained the kid as he was shot could be looking at accessory charges. Since they didn’t shoot – and especially if they had no idea it was coming – they don’t want to take the fall for the one who did the killing. So they go state’s evidence.

whatcat on January 7, 2014 at 5:09 PM

You just answered my first question. You are blaming the parents for Corporal Itchy Finger’s solution.

Way to go, Port.

BobMbx on January 7, 2014 at 5:03 PM

I’m not blaming the parents. I am blaming their decision to keep calling police, even though it did nothing to stop their son from behaving aggressive toward them & police.

In regards to the first response to these type of shootings, it’s like we learned nothing from the Trayvon Martin shooting. By all accounts from the first news stories, Trayvon was eating an ice cream cone in one hand, a balloon on a string in another and somebody walked up and shot him.

There is more to this story. And I have also jumped to conclusions by throwing out different scenarios as to what could have happened. That being said, the whole scenario is terrible to all involved.

It is more complicated than “I called the police, they killed my son” as the media headlines are pumping out there.

portlandon on January 7, 2014 at 5:10 PM

No one would attempt a murder this cavalierly unless he was very confident, based on prior experience, that he could get away with it.

He may or may not have killed before, but it seems unlikely that he would have behaved this way (if the facts as reported by the father are true) unless he felt fairly confident that the other two officers would cover for him.

Let’s hope he miscalculated. Badly.

AZCoyote on January 7, 2014 at 5:11 PM

They probably tried.

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 5:08 PM

Probably so. Being he was 18 years old, he would have to commit himself or have a psych evaluation and have them determined unable to make the decision himself.

Terrible all the way around.

portlandon on January 7, 2014 at 5:11 PM

Actually on this website, dems kids are always in play. I am shocked you called out the obvious.

loveofcountry on January 7, 2014 at 4:24 PM

Any examples?

hollygolightly on January 7, 2014 at 4:59 PM

He’s probably thinking of Olbermann, Maddow, Baldwin, Bashir etc. It’s easy to mistake them for adolescent boys.

Fenris on January 7, 2014 at 5:13 PM

Thats a fantasy. 40-50 years ago? Maybe. Today? Not a chance. This guy will get a medal for “bravery” for saving the lives of two other officers.
BobMbx on January 7, 2014 at 5:09 PM

Oh, I dunno, Rodney King hit the jackpot and lived quite well until he went belly up in his swimming pool. Five will get you ten somebody’s gonna be shelling out a lotta bucks to the family for this.

whatcat on January 7, 2014 at 5:13 PM

If democrats weren’t so hell bent on handing out cash to genuine reprobate sluggards for votes, there might be some money to pump into a mental health system.

Murphy9 on January 7, 2014 at 5:14 PM

At any rate, the shooter’s life as he knew it is pretty much over no matter what legal procedures come from this. At the very least, he’ll be signing whatever checks come his way over to the victim’s family, probably for the rest of his life.

In reality, the shooter will like receive 3 or 4 week paid vacation and a 2 hour class in dealing will the mentally ill before returning to regular duty.

Wallythedog on January 7, 2014 at 5:14 PM

Thats a fantasy. 40-50 years ago? Maybe. Today? Not a chance. This guy will get a medal for “bravery” for saving the lives of two other officers.
BobMbx on January 7, 2014 at 5:09 PM

Oh, I dunno, Rodney King hit the jackpot and lived quite well until he went belly up in his swimming pool. Five will get you ten somebody’s gonna be shelling out a lotta bucks to the family for this.

whatcat on January 7, 2014 at 5:13 PM

Also, the Goldman’s win against OJ in the civil court.

whatcat on January 7, 2014 at 5:14 PM

no officer should have to give up a life trying to defend society.

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 4:30 PM

BINGO!! And THERE IT IS…….spouting the UNION LINE for the Cop Union Bosses!

williamg on January 7, 2014 at 5:15 PM

Your local police have become militarized… It’s getting creepier by the day but the voices on the left are silent. Wanna know why?

Because Leftists are Marxists and this is what Marxists do.

/I hope the officer who committed this murder is charged with murder – but likely he won’t be.

Key West Reader on January 7, 2014 at 5:16 PM

BINGO!! And THERE IT IS…….spouting the UNION LINE for the Cop Union Bosses!

williamg on January 7, 2014 at 5:15 PM

A unionized Police force is a dangerous thing. Public Sector Unions should be abolished, which is kind of why I really like Scott Walker!

Key West Reader on January 7, 2014 at 5:17 PM

If you can’t physically restrain any 90lb person on the planet you have no business being a police officer. PERIOD. I do not care if it is 9th dan Tae Kwan Do master on PCP, there’s no excuse for this.

And this sh** happens all the time now because the physical ability standards have been lowered to achieve ‘diversity’. I hope the parents end up owning every public building and property in town after the lawsuit.

M240H on January 7, 2014 at 5:18 PM

He’s probably thinking of Olbermann, Maddow, Baldwin, Bashir etc. It’s easy to mistake them for adolescent boys.

Fenris on January 7, 2014 at 5:13 PM

Ah, I stand corrected.

hollygolightly on January 7, 2014 at 5:19 PM

This lack of info tells me one thing. They don’t have an excuse to justify the shooting, and one (or both) of the non-shooting cops are rolling over on the shooter.
“No comment”
BobMbx on January 7, 2014 at 4:53 PM

That’s my hope as well. Makes it easier to “go against the brotherhood” when you have someone else standing next to you agreeing that what happened was wrong. ESPECIALLY cause it sounds like the 3rd cop even put their life in danger by shooting at someone then were on top of.

nextgen_repub on January 7, 2014 at 5:21 PM

M240H on January 7, 2014 at 5:18 PM

Don’t forget that this child had already been tased several times. He might have likely been killed just by the volts they administered BEFORE they murdered him with a gun.

/Paging Al Sharpton, Paging Jesse Jackson…. oh. I’m sorry. This was a disabled WHITE child. Nothing to see here, move along folks.

Key West Reader on January 7, 2014 at 5:22 PM

When you go to work as an officer of the law, most of your clients ARE out to get you.

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 5:00 PM

Not really true. Most of the people with whom you’ll interact negatively might be out to get you, but most of your “clients” are law-abiding Joes who don’t give you any hassle whatsoever (OK, maybe a little if you pull them over to give them a ticket – but that puts them back in that other category, now, doesn’t it?).

GWB on January 7, 2014 at 5:22 PM

no one outside of police officers and soldiers should have access to ANY guns PERIOD

nonpartisan on December 15, 2013 at 9:56 AM

μολὼν λαβέ, NP. Officers like this are one of the reasons we have the 2nd ammendment. He is a discredit to the uniform he wears.

yesiamapirate on January 7, 2014 at 5:24 PM

The parents lost my sympathy with “they’ve had to call the police numerous times to deal with their out of control son.” Well damn in YOU as parents can’t even handle your kid don’t stand there rolling your eyes at the police.

Marcus on January 7, 2014 at 5:24 PM

When you go to work as an officer of the law, most of your clients ARE out to get you.

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 5:00 PM

Pray tell. Who might be considered a “client” of a sworn officer of the law?

I’m very curious to hear your prompt reply.

Key West Reader on January 7, 2014 at 5:27 PM

The parents lost my sympathy with “they’ve had to call the police numerous times to deal with their out of control son.” Well damn in YOU as parents can’t even handle your kid don’t stand there rolling your eyes at the police.

Marcus on January 7, 2014 at 5:24 PM

I wouldn’t be too hard on the parents. Remember if you are trying to get an adult declared incompetent then you need evidence of their instability, and you mostly get that by calling the cops. We don’t know if that’s what they were doing, but it might have been if they were trying to get him help.

DFCtomm on January 7, 2014 at 5:29 PM

The parents lost my sympathy with “they’ve had to call the police numerous times to deal with their out of control son.” Well damn in YOU as parents can’t even handle your kid don’t stand there rolling your eyes at the police.

Marcus on January 7, 2014 at 5:24 PM

You really just posted. That. Wow.

/SMH

Key West Reader on January 7, 2014 at 5:30 PM

Marcus on January 7, 2014 at 5:24 PM

Another one who blames the parents, but with no mention of the final solution they were given when they did call for help.

You’re suggesting that there is a limit on the number of times you can call for help, and when you do, you shouldn’t complain about what happens next.

BobMbx on January 7, 2014 at 5:31 PM

Not really true. Most of the people with whom you’ll interact negatively might be out to get you, but most of your “clients” are law-abiding Joes who don’t give you any hassle whatsoever (OK, maybe a little if you pull them over to give them a ticket – but that puts them back in that other category, now, doesn’t it?).

GWB on January 7, 2014 at 5:22 PM

Let me put this another way…

When you go on a domestic disturbance call, rules of civility are not likely to apply.

The domestic disturbance is one of the more dangerous calls an officer can go on because of the unpredictability and strong emotion inherent in those situations. It can explode out of control in a heartbeat.

A domestic disturbance is a FAR cry from a traffic stop. And all the sweet-talking, bleeding-heart psycho-babble in the world is useless against a schizophrenic in fear for his life.

Sooo…let’s stay focused on THIS situation, and not try to stereotype ALL officers nor ALL good American citizens.

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 5:32 PM

A domestic disturbance is a FAR cry from a traffic stop. And all the sweet-talking, bleeding-heart psycho-babble in the world is useless against a schizophrenic in fear for his life.

Sooo…let’s stay focused on THIS situation, and not try to stereotype ALL officers nor ALL good American citizens.

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 5:32 PM

If this disabled child were black, would your opinion be different? Say the truth.

Key West Reader on January 7, 2014 at 5:36 PM

Sooo…let’s stay focused on THIS situation, and not try to stereotype ALL officers nor ALL good American citizens.

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 5:32 PM

Speaking of stereotyping, where does this fall on the scale?

More Than 100 Charged in Federal Disability Fraud Bust

At least they didn’t shoot anyone, so its not corruption corruption as Whoopi might say.

BobMbx on January 7, 2014 at 5:37 PM

Q: Did these parents just suddenly find out their kid was schizophrenic?

A: No. They knew he had mental problems.

Q: Did calling the police before stop this 18 year old mans outbursts of aggression?

A: No. How many times should these parents have called police before they come to the realization that this person is not safe enough to be out amongst society?

The parents should have stopped calling 911, and get their son committed. He’d be alive today.

portlandon on January 7, 2014 at 4:56 PM

That’s a pretty harsh and desperate reasoning as to how the kid ended up being shot to death.

verbaluce on January 7, 2014 at 5:38 PM

If this disabled child were black, would your opinion be different? Say the truth.

Key West Reader on January 7, 2014 at 5:36 PM

I don’t care what color a person is.

A schizo is a schizo. It has been reported that the young man was schizophrenic. The parents knew it.

That is enough for me.

Maybe on a call such as this one the responders should be people trained in shooting sedative darts. Knock ‘em out like they do wild animals. Because that is what you are dealing with in an unmedicated schizophrenic who is out of control.

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 5:41 PM

These are the same words that can be heard before they shot Miriam Carey? But it’s just a coincidence.

flicker on January 7, 2014 at 5:41 PM

Sooo…let’s stay focused on THIS situation, and not try to stereotype ALL officers nor ALL good American citizens.

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 5:32 PM

I’m with that. And I say that as someone who finds it easy to dislike cops…or have somewhat in the past.
Who knows at this time what happened here, aside from a tragedy.
No doubt there are some bad cops and no doubt there’s often some institutionalized brutality that comes out of that world. But there’s also – more often and more likely – immense humanity and heroics.
Not to mention the whole going to work every day with your life on the line.

verbaluce on January 7, 2014 at 5:43 PM

And again, you can’t just commit someone because he’s schizophrenic! And by no means are all schizophrenics dangerous.

flicker on January 7, 2014 at 5:44 PM

Because that is what you are dealing with in an unmedicated schizophrenic who is out of control.

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 5:41 PM

It might turn out that you’re describing the shooter here.
Just sayin’…

verbaluce on January 7, 2014 at 5:46 PM

Speaking of stereotyping, where does this fall on the scale?

More Than 100 Charged in Federal Disability Fraud Bust

At least they didn’t shoot anyone, so its not corruption corruption as Whoopi might say.

BobMbx on January 7, 2014 at 5:37 PM

And this has WHAT to do with the story of a young male killed by a law officer in the South?

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 5:46 PM

Maybe on a call such as this one the responders should be people trained in shooting sedative darts. Knock ‘em out like they do wild animals. Because that is what you are dealing with in an unmedicated schizophrenic who is out of control.

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 5:41 PM

The 5’3″ 90 pound child had been tased multiple times. Do think that being tased/pseduo electrocuted several times counts as a “sedative”?

Key West Reader on January 7, 2014 at 5:46 PM

And again, you can’t just commit someone because he’s schizophrenic! And by no means are all schizophrenics dangerous.

flicker on January 7, 2014 at 5:44 PM

This.

Prof. John Nash comes to mind.

BobMbx on January 7, 2014 at 5:48 PM

I live in NC. This is not an uncommon thing to happen. The deaths alone in the county jail where I live in would shock anyone who checks. But it is not reported well and NOT investigated since they were just criminals. Having worked in law enforcement software management I know the rules of law but have yet to find any in NC who follow them. We have had a large number of prosecutors, police chiefs, HP, SBI lab personnel plus a load of others put in jail. This does not affect the corruption and hiring of person who should never be a LEO but are hired by their friends, relatives or paybacks. The role of LEOs in NC is to generate revenue. Our AG stated a doubling of crimes solved and convictions – To a whopping 3-5% rate! WOW great! Now crime is only 97 – 95% unaccountable. That will help a lot. And as for the guy doing the shooting – his attitude is the normal not a abnormality. There have been at least 3 recent shooting deaths of teens by cops in the last month in NC that I can remember.

ajnolan on January 7, 2014 at 5:49 PM

That’s when Wilsey says the officer shot in between the officers holding the teen down, killing his son.

I find this hard to believe. For me either the father is mistaken, this was terribly reckless and put the other officers at terrible risk of being shot or the cop reached in and put his gun directly on the boy. That’s going to take some explaining.

CW20 on January 7, 2014 at 5:50 PM

The parents should have stopped calling 911, and get their son committed. He’d be alive today.

portlandon on January 7, 2014 at 4:56 PM

As others have noted, that no longer works.

But it should. In this case, and every other involving the mentally ill and weapons in any situation, we should be pointing out that the solution is to be allowed to separate the truly mentally from the rest of society and place them in some sort of protective environment.

TexasDan on January 7, 2014 at 5:51 PM

The 5’3″ 90 pound child had been tased multiple times. Do think that being tased/pseduo electrocuted several times counts as a “sedative”?

Key West Reader on January 7, 2014 at 5:46 PM

The tazing did not apparently sedate.

All these arguments are fruitless. Only the family and officers were there. Judging this situation without all the facts is a waste of time.

I know my family’s experience, and so I know there is the possibility that the shooting was justified.

I also know that the law enforcement system is going in a very bad direction as departments all around the country are increasingly militarized, an abhorrent development in what used to be a great Constitutional republic.

I have every sympathy for this family which has endured the grievous pain of losing a son, and apparently, also endured the recent loss of their daughter in an automobile accident.

None of our pontificating here makes a whit of difference there.

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 5:51 PM

And again, you can’t just commit someone because he’s schizophrenic! And by no means are all schizophrenics dangerous.

flicker on January 7, 2014 at 5:44 PM

But there should be a way to commit someone to protective custody who has proven to be dangerous. Threatening your mom with a screwdriver isn’t exactly a benign action.

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 5:53 PM

And this has WHAT to do with the story of a young male killed by a law officer in the South?

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 5:46 PM

Cops who shouldn’t be cops. We’re supposed to have faith in them. Every day we learn that faith is misplaced. Thats what is driving the anger you see from me and maybe others here and elsewhere on the intertubes.

Tell me that the next time you dial 911 (and I hope you never have to) that this or some other story isn’t going to influence the way you behave, speak, or move when the cops show up. You life depends on your obedience and “on your knees” show of respect when in their presence. Anything but that can get you killed.

BobMbx on January 7, 2014 at 5:53 PM

At the very least, he’ll be signing whatever checks come his way over to the victim’s family, probably for the rest of his life.

whatcat on January 7, 2014 at 5:04 PM

.
The overwhelming majority of jurisdictions have laws that prevent sueing police officers for their actions in the line of duty unless a crime was committed by the officer taking the specific action.

PolAgnostic on January 7, 2014 at 5:57 PM

I find this hard to believe. For me either the father is mistaken, this was terribly reckless and put the other officers at terrible risk of being shot or the cop reached in and put his gun directly on the boy. That’s going to take some explaining.

CW20 on January 7, 2014 at 5:50 PM

He decided this boys fate in less than 15 seconds. A real friggin’ hero, eh? God forbid if you sneeze while this guy writes you a speeding ticket. He might get the wrong idea.

“Suspect made a quick, violent move. Fearing for my life and the safety of the public, I drew my weapon and discharged it”

BobMbx on January 7, 2014 at 5:57 PM

Everything we know so far is from the mouths of two devastated parents who were obviously in denial.

I think I’ll wait for more objective facts to be released.

ButterflyDragon on January 7, 2014 at 5:58 PM

Prof. John Nash comes to mind.

BobMbx on January 7, 2014 at 5:48 PM

And really, in an ideal world, do we really have time for the John Nashes either?

flicker on January 7, 2014 at 5:58 PM

who has proven to be dangerous.

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 5:53 PM

I missed all this. You say the child had a history of uncontrollable violence? And that shooting him was the only course open to the police? Okay.

As for the denial of the parents, I’m sure they are in denial. The fact is, if it were to be reported, the cops didn’t have time for this, and they didn’t actually shoot the child.

flicker on January 7, 2014 at 6:04 PM

It seems that within 2 days, the department’s internal ‘investigation’ fully cleared it’s officers.
I just saw something on the shooting of Michelle O’Connell in St. Augustine a few years back.
Problem with these things is you have police investigating their own.

verbaluce on January 7, 2014 at 6:06 PM

None of our pontificating here makes a whit of difference there.

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 5:51 PM

.
Amen to that sentiment. My condolences that your brother lost his life in the line of duty.

Schizophrenics are vastly misunderstood by the average person who has not been involved with them on a personal level. There is little in your daily experience that coincides with how they see and interact with the world.

The medications that are prescribed for schizophrenia are some of the most potent currently in use – and they HAVE to be.

Tasers are perceived as “instantaneous incapacitators” but they have a high rate of failure in actual use.

If required to “gain control” of a schizophrenic, I would start by using pressure or strike points intended to incapacitate.

If required to “gain control” of a schizophrenic armed with a “tiny screwdriver”, I would START with blows intended to disable/dislocate major joints.

Someone with a dislocated knee is not going to be very mobile or much of a threat.

PolAgnostic on January 7, 2014 at 6:09 PM

The fact is, if it were to be reported, the cops didn’t have time for this, and they didn’t actually shoot the child.

flicker on January 7, 2014 at 6:04 PM

The father claims the cops said “we don’t have time for this”.

Unless verified by others there, or caught on an open mic/audio, nobody knows what was said.

Did we not learn anything from the Trayvon Martin shooting?

portlandon on January 7, 2014 at 6:09 PM

I missed all this. You say the child had a history of uncontrollable violence? And that shooting him was the only course open to the police? Okay.

flicker on January 7, 2014 at 6:04 PM

There are a couple of commenters here that have stated if you can’t control your kids and call for help, you shouldn’t complain when they take care of business.

One poster has said that its outside of the police charter to lend assistance. I took from that, that if I call the police I should expect some gunfire and it’ll be my fault for not being able to control the situation myself.

BobMbx on January 7, 2014 at 6:10 PM

In one of the first interviews I read, the dad (stepdad?) said that the 2 officers who arrived first tried to talk to the son and calm him down, and had almost succeeded when the third office arrived, said “we don’t have time for this” and ordered the other officers to tase the kid. After the kid had been tased a couple of times, and the two officers had him pinned to the ground, the dad heard a shot, and saw that the third officer had shot the son. The dad said he grabbed the third officer before he could shoot again.

The timeline was a little different than the later reports, in that the cop said we don’t have time for this before the kid was tased, not before he was shot, and it’s not clear, at least from the earlier articles, that the dad actually saw the cop shoot the kid. He said he “heard” a shot. Either way its horrible, but I don’t think all the facts are out yet, and the reports seem to be changing to make it more sensational. I find it hard to believe the shooting was justified, when the kid was pinned down by 2 cops and had just been tased, you would think he’s not a threat. But, I’d like to hear the full story.

Also, the parents had called the cops a couple of times previously to help take their son to a mental health facility when he was having an episode, and there had not been a problem. He was not violent, at least not previously, he was just not cooperative. It’s not clear that he was threatening anyone with the screwdriver, which was a small one used on electronics. Although after he was tased, he might have reacted violently, who knows.

mbs on January 7, 2014 at 6:11 PM

If required to “gain control” of a schizophrenic, I would start by using pressure or strike points intended to incapacitate.

If required to “gain control” of a schizophrenic armed with a “tiny screwdriver”, I would START with blows intended to disable/dislocate major joints.

Someone with a dislocated knee is not going to be very mobile or much of a threat.

PolAgnostic on January 7, 2014 at 6:09 PM

And then once the suspect is on the ground, being held down by two other officers, would you finish by pulling your firearm and firing?

BobMbx on January 7, 2014 at 6:13 PM

I can honestly remember a time when cops bragged about how long it had been since they took their gun out of their holster. Now they are outright shooting people just to make their day easier.

JellyToast

You can’t have it both ways. Guns are dangerous in the wrong hands.

lostmotherland on January 7, 2014 at 6:20 PM

CW20 on January 7, 2014 at 5:50 PM

The ignorance and Brutality of Union Thugs – with or without badges – is ALWAYS “difficult to believe”……which is WHY it IS so believable! It is true!

williamg on January 7, 2014 at 6:21 PM

Actually on this website, dems kids are always in play. I am shocked you called out the obvious.

loveofcountry on January 7, 2014 at 4:24 PM

You’re a liar, you ignorant, anti-American turd.

But then, you *are* a leftist.

Solaratov on January 7, 2014 at 6:24 PM

I am going to say this as pc as possible.
I have, over the last 3-5 years, become very wary and somewhat afraid of our local police force. This story doesn’t surprise me in the least.
I remember a time when I thought, and taught that the police were the good guys. I’m not so sure any more and definitely do my best to avoid them………even though I have absolutely nothing to hide.
Times are changing, and really fast.

ORconservative on January 7, 2014 at 6:25 PM

You have nothing to fear from a police state if you don’t do drugs.

terryannonline

Posted earlier today, lol.

Actually on this website, dems kids are always in play. I am shocked you called out the obvious.

loveofcountry

Meanwhile, no one is shocked you would lie in one of your posts….again.

xblade on January 7, 2014 at 6:28 PM

I’d have thought Jesse and Al would’ve been all over this case by now. Why not?

Kenz on January 7, 2014 at 6:29 PM

When you go to work as an officer of the law, most of your clients ARE out to get you.

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 5:00 PM

Really?
I have to wonder where on earth you get that assumption from – ’cause I’ve gotta tell you that in 30+ years of police work that sure wasn’t my impression.

karra on January 7, 2014 at 6:30 PM

Rogue cops lead to dead cops, including innocent dead cops.

HiJack on January 7, 2014 at 6:31 PM

Someone with a dislocated knee is not going to be very mobile or much of a threat.

PolAgnostic on January 7, 2014 at 6:09 PM

And then once the suspect is on the ground, being held down by two other officers, would you finish by pulling your firearm and firing?

BobMbx on January 7, 2014 at 6:13 PM


Well, you’ve established you’ve never seen anyone with a dislocated knee and that your ability to comprehend the written word is questionable.

So why would I respond to an inflammatory “The cop EXECUTED the kid” comment on your part?

Point to some statement of mine supporting the use of the officer’s gun or acknowledge you just want to TROLL on comments you don’t like.

PolAgnostic on January 7, 2014 at 6:34 PM

The cop shot between two other cops restraining the 90 lbs. kid?

WTF!

workingclass artist on January 7, 2014 at 6:38 PM

I feel bad for the family, but if this 90 lb 18 year old was too much for mom and dad to handle, then they were obviously afraid for their own safety if they called the police.

portlandon on January 7, 2014 at 3:31 PM

Unfortunately, our liberal friends have made it very difficult for families to have 90 pound schizophrenic family members committed. So instead these people live in fear, waiting for the next outburst, hoping it doesn’t escalate and get out of hand; knowing that if they have to call the police, there’s a very good chance it’ll end poorly.

Hill60 on January 7, 2014 at 6:38 PM

One poster has said that its outside of the police charter to lend assistance. I took from that, that if I call the police I should expect some gunfire and it’ll be my fault for not being able to control the situation myself.

BobMbx on January 7, 2014 at 6:10 PM

To Serve and Protect is so 20th-century.

flicker on January 7, 2014 at 6:39 PM

The worst part of all this is that we’re even debating whether a cop really could have shot a largely subdued kid as a matter of efficiency. The very fact that we give this story any credence at all is a sign of how far we have fallen as a civilization.

flicker on January 7, 2014 at 6:44 PM

City cops barged into the home of a Staten Island mom without a warrant, beat up her family and callously killed her pet parakeet, according to court papers.

Evelyn Lugo’s beloved bird Tito was ejected from his cage after it was knocked off a dresser when cops came into the St. George home, the lawsuit alleges…

Lugo’s son Edwin Avellanet was taking a bag of garbage outside when cops stopped and questioned him about an orange construction cone placed in front of their Corson Ave. home to save a parking spot, according to lawyer Jason Leventhal.

The cops demanded to see identification and Avellanet, 26, refused, stating that he had done nothing wrong. A cop grabbed Avellanet by the arm, but he was able to break free and retreat into the house, according to the suit.

Akzed on January 7, 2014 at 6:44 PM

TSA prepping kids to be groped, and to like it.

Akzed on January 7, 2014 at 6:47 PM

“’You’re lucky I didn’t [expletive] shoot you,’” Conner said.

Akzed on January 7, 2014 at 6:49 PM

Cops do have to wear vests for a reason. But what has happened to them? They used to be fairly decent folk. Are they all Mid-East vets bringing their warrior attitude and training to the job?

Or are they just being trained to act this way so that when the revolution breaks out it will be put down swiftly and brutally.

I guess Shock and Awe starts at home with kids and grows from there.

flicker on January 7, 2014 at 6:49 PM

DEC. 29 THRU JAN. 1

FOR SECURITY PURPOSES ALL VEHICLES PARKED IN THIS AREA ARE SUBJECT TO INSPECTION AND SEARCH BY PASADENA PD. NON-COMPLIANCE MAY RESULT IN CITATION AND TOW AT OWNER’S EXPENSE.

(Rose Bowl flier.)

Akzed on January 7, 2014 at 6:50 PM

Four Milwaukee police officers were charged Tuesday with felonies related to illegal rectal searches of suspects on the street and in police district stations over the past two years.

Akzed on January 7, 2014 at 6:52 PM

Judge gets rehab instead of jail for being drunk on the bench.

Akzed on January 7, 2014 at 6:54 PM

Get a full pat-down massage just for showing up!

Akzed on January 7, 2014 at 6:57 PM

I guess there weren’t any dogs that they could shoot.

Another Drew on January 7, 2014 at 7:00 PM

Really?
I have to wonder where on earth you get that assumption from – ’cause I’ve gotta tell you that in 30+ years of police work that sure wasn’t my impression.

karra on January 7, 2014 at 6:30 PM

Actually I came back and qualified that.

Trying to keep the focus on domestic disturbances spiraling out of control.

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 7:07 PM

I am going to say this as pc as possible.
I have, over the last 3-5 years, become very wary and somewhat afraid of our local police force. This story doesn’t surprise me in the least.
I remember a time when I thought, and taught that the police were the good guys. I’m not so sure any more and definitely do my best to avoid them………even though I have absolutely nothing to hide.
Times are changing, and really fast.

ORconservative on January 7, 2014 at 6:25 PM

Though I have several law enforcement officers in my family, I am afraid I have to say the same.

I do not trust them, and do my best to avoid them. My family excepted.

And instead of calling 911, dial .357.

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 7:09 PM

Here the cops act more as vigilantes. They take cell phones and delete them, they stop you just to ask “how you doin’?”, they sieze $40,000 in drug money and only $30,000 makes it to the stationhouse, they engage in kidnapping, sexual slavery, extortion and rape and are told by the brass “don’t do it again”, until four years later the newspaper uncovers the trafficking and only four of the many implicated but otherwise anonymous cops, the visible tip of the iceberg, is prosecuted.

The police chief chased down an alleged traffic offender, in an unmark vehicle, with out identifying himself, and when he caught him, beat him up.

It’s like COPS: in Russia.

flicker on January 7, 2014 at 7:11 PM

Voluntary government checkpoints spark backlash

Akzed on January 7, 2014 at 7:15 PM

You Have The Right To Remain Out Of Prison [Infographic]

Akzed on January 7, 2014 at 7:16 PM

I’d have thought Jesse and Al would’ve been all over this case by now. Why not?

Kenz on January 7, 2014 at 6:29 PM

The victim is white. That’s why not. Whites don’t matter.

bigbeachbird on January 7, 2014 at 7:17 PM

You can’t have it both ways. Guns are dangerous in the wrong hands.

lostmotherland on January 7, 2014 at 6:20 PM

Rather like automobiles and chainsaws, eh.

Solaratov on January 7, 2014 at 7:17 PM

How much will the parents be charged for the bullet?

tetriskid on January 7, 2014 at 7:18 PM

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