TNR: Why, yes, ObamaCare is a trojan horse for single-payer

posted at 4:01 pm on January 6, 2014 by Allahpundit

Now it can be told. Emphasis on “now”:

Precisely. ObamaCare will stumble along for the rest of the year, with a new wave of public irritation to come once small businesses start dumping employees onto the exchanges en masse, but the prospects for repeal will remain dim even if the GOP takes back the Senate. The numbers in Congress just aren’t there to beat an Obama veto, and by 2017 so many millions will have been assimilated into the program that some critical mass of GOP centrists will end up taking a “mend it, don’t end it” approach. Only an adverse-selection catastrophe on the exchanges will raise premiums enough (or require a hefty enough federal bailout) to endanger the program. And lefties like Michael Moore and Noam Scheiber, who wrote the TNR piece, know it. That’s why you’re starting to hear them talk more openly about single-payer: Partly it’s because they want to get a jump on nudging the Democratic agenda to the left for 2016, partly it’s because they want repeal-minded Republicans to be happy with the status quo, but partly too it’s a simple product of safety. They can talk about this now because, unlike early 2010, there’s no political risk in doing so.

[O]ne day soon, especially if Medicaid becomes more generous, the working-class person who makes 175% of the poverty level will look at his working-class neighbor making 130% of the poverty level and think, wow, his health insurance seems a lot better than my private Obamacare plan. How long can it be before most people earning 175% or 200% of the poverty level are allowed to buy in, too?

The same goes for Medicare. Many health-care reformers believe some version of Obamacare—government-subsidized private insurance—will eventually replace Medicare, something that will surely become more likely if voters feel warmly toward Obamacare and demand to keep it when they turn 65. But if private Obamacare plans stay stingy, the opposite may happen: As people age out of Obamacare and into that single-payer program we all love and support, their fondness for Medicare will only increase. Before long, their slightly younger friends and family members will be clamoring to join Medicare, too. How long before some opportunistic pol proposes that everyone on Obamacare who’s 55-and-up can enroll in Medicare? Not very long, I’d guess. In wonk terms, progressives are likely to get their beloved public option one way or another, and probably not too far in the future.

The basic point is that, by pooling millions of people together in one institutional home—the exchanges where customers buy insurance under Obamacare—the Affordable Care Act is creating an organized constituency for additional reform. And since threadbare coverage is the only affordable option under Obamacare for many of these people, the law is giving them a whole set of grievances to get exercised about.

As Jim Geraghty says, it’s a strange defense of ObamaCare to say that it’s just “threadbare” and crappy enough to build a consensus for throwing the whole thing out, but it’s perfectly in keeping with the trojan-horse approach. They want the law to fail — not so suddenly and horribly that the industry melts down and frightens the public away from ambitious new federal “fixes” but slowly and incrementally so that people don’t lose all faith in federal management of this sector. I’m old enough to remember when it was a sign of utmost wingnuttery to suggest that ObamaCare was but phase one in a government takeover of health care, but three years later, now that the law’s momentarily out of political danger, we’ve got HHS ordering insurance companies every other week to change their business practices willy nilly and lefty pundits babbling excitedly about how this is all really just a stepping stone to bigger and better statist interventions. (Some liberals will object that the wingnuttery lies in believing that liberals designed the law to fail. Fair enough — although Scheiber’s own language is revealing, describing O-Care at one point as “a deceptively sneaky way” to get single-payer and saying of GOP efforts to play up the law’s problems that “Republicans are in some sense playing into the trap Obamacare laid for them.”) This, not “if you like your plan,” is the real Big Lie of O-Care. This is where we’re at we’re six days into full implementation.

Here’s vid from John Sexton’s old blog, Verum Serum, from 2009 sampling a few lefty luminaries in unguarded moments discussing the type of health-care system they want. Why anyone thought they’d be content with a public/private hybrid like O-Care, I have no idea. Two thoughts in closing. One: Lots of ink was spilled over the past two weeks about America’s drift towards libertarianism on pot, civil liberties, gay rights, etc. True enough, but given what it means for America’s fiscal stability, the acid test is on health care and entitlements. Will Americans’ alleged libertarianism lead them to reject single-payer as a fix for O-Care or is Scheiber’s prediction right? If the latter, then we’re not drifting libertarian, we’re drifting left. (Peter Suderman of Reason is naturally optimistic.) Two: What does Scheiber’s point about O-Care portend for, oh, say, immigration reform? Democrats were willing to take half a loaf on health-care reform because they hoped/expected that political pressure would get them the other half over time. Meanwhile, congressional Democrats are murmuring lately that maybe they don’t need a path to citizenship included in the next amnesty push after all. You trust that they won’t immediately turn around and begin agitating for that once their half-a-loaf compromise bill passes, don’t you?


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TNR: Why, yes, ObamaCare is a trojan horse for single-payer

IncitatusCare.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 6, 2014 at 4:06 PM

Liberals like Michael Moore think Obamacare is awful. They’re kinda right. But the law may turn out to be a Trojan Horse for a better system

Better system to a leftist usually means “remorseless and efficient slaughter of undesirables.”

Murphy9 on January 6, 2014 at 4:07 PM

The insurance asked for it. Now, for self preservation, they need to fight Obama tooth and nail on everything.
No help. No meetings.
Issue insurance policies that people WANT, not what big government orders them to have and explain the premium difference for obamacare policies. CHOICE.
Even the trolls here will get it if you use small words.

CherryBombsBigBrownBeaver on January 6, 2014 at 4:07 PM

We’re Effed. Lefties get their way, Repubs. go along to feel good, Conservatives don’t even get scraps. Is it time to talk about secession yet?

WordsMatter on January 6, 2014 at 4:08 PM

We’re pretty much F__ked at this point. Lefties get what they want, RINOs go along to keep those cocktail party invites coming, and conservatives are left out in the cold. Is it time to start talking about s3c3ssion?

WordsMatter on January 6, 2014 at 4:10 PM

As people age out of Obamacare and into that single-payer program we all love and support, their fondness for Medicare will only increase.

A doctor CERTAINLY didn’t say this.

I know because my wife is a doctor, and all of her doctor friends do nothing but spit nails and vitriol at the mere mention of the three that shall not be named… Medicare, Medicaid, ACA.

Defenestratus on January 6, 2014 at 4:12 PM

Only an adverse-selection catastrophe on the exchanges will raise premiums enough…

Dude, do you even have a friggen pulse? This is what is happening now! And this year premiums will spike again after last year’s gigantic spike. This disastrous legislation is already turning people off en masse. What the Fluke do you think is going to happen when the awfulness of ObamaCare lands squarely in the lap of those who get their insurance through their employers? We have not seen the bottom of this pit, and every month it appears its depth grows exponentially.

Do you honestly believe career politicians are just going to sit on their hands and risk losing their seat this November just because, single payer? Nancy Pelosi can play that game because the people she represents are all stoned out of their minds and will continue to vote for her long after she is dead. Not many others have that luxury.

NotCoach on January 6, 2014 at 4:13 PM

WordsMatter on January 6, 2014 at 4:10 PM

We call it “national divorce” and it’s well past time. There is no other way that an American Constitutional Republic will, again, exist in the world.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 6, 2014 at 4:13 PM

Another “no sh!t Sherlock” thread…..

dentarthurdent on January 6, 2014 at 4:13 PM

Old: #RepealObamaCare

New: #RepealSinglePayerTrojanHorse

Bitter Clinger on January 6, 2014 at 4:15 PM

I doubt those leftist “luminaries” can see themselves standing in line for anything.

Every lib ever born always imagines themselves as the policy maker ensconced in the comfortably heated office while someone else is outside shoveling snow from the sidewalks. None of them are raising their hand when it comes time to decide who has to clean out the sewers, fix the machinery, or work the crop fields, and this is where it all falls apart with gunfire and screaming.

Bishop on January 6, 2014 at 4:15 PM

Libdie? You got anything to say about this?

Lanceman on January 6, 2014 at 4:17 PM

I don’t understand why a far left publication would have the name “New Republic.”

It should be called “New Fascist Dictatorship” or something that better reflects their ideals.

UltimateBob on January 6, 2014 at 4:17 PM

Obamacare may lrsd to single payer…?
What clued them in?
Was Obama himself saying he wanted single payer many years ago.

Hey Captain Obvious.
Please pick up the courtesy phone.

NeoKong on January 6, 2014 at 4:18 PM

Is there any country to the right of America that I can move to if this atrocity actually happens?

Cyhort on January 6, 2014 at 4:18 PM

As long as people have the choice to NOT sign up for it, Obamacare is doomed.

BUT!!!

As soon as they make it so you are AUTOMATICALLY signed up for it, (by filing your taxes, being born etc., a defacto single payer thingy) it will NEVER go away.

Gunlock Bill on January 6, 2014 at 4:18 PM

Is there any country to the right of America that I can move to if this atrocity actually happens?

Cyhort on January 6, 2014 at 4:18 PM

Belize

Murphy9 on January 6, 2014 at 4:18 PM

A doctor CERTAINLY didn’t say this.

I know because my wife is a doctor, and all of her doctor friends do nothing but spit nails and vitriol at the mere mention of the three that shall not be named… Medicare, Medicaid, ACA.

Defenestratus on January 6, 2014 at 4:12 PM

Of course not. Doctors receive their best claims compensation from private insurance (pre-ObamaCare).

But until people start seeing evidence of a doctor-shortage, the masses may, indeed, like what they think they’re getting from GovCare.

Bitter Clinger on January 6, 2014 at 4:19 PM

Is there any country to the right of America that I can move to if this atrocity actually happens?

Cyhort on January 6, 2014 at 4:18 PM

Belize.

Lanceman on January 6, 2014 at 4:21 PM

Let the national divorce begin. I don’t view obozo and his evil supporters to be Americans. Every one of them are enemies of this country and should be treated as such.

Flange on January 6, 2014 at 4:21 PM

I don’t understand why a far left publication would have the name “New Republic.”

It should be called “New Fascist Dictatorship” or something that better reflects their ideals.

UltimateBob on January 6, 2014 at 4:17 PM

Nah, it fits. Think of all the Communist hellholes that call themselves “Democratic Republic of …….”. Deception is the name of the game.

Bitter Clinger on January 6, 2014 at 4:21 PM

Is there any country to the right of America that I can move to if this atrocity actually happens?

Cyhort on January 6, 2014 at 4:18 PM

Belize

Murphy9 on January 6, 2014 at 4:18 PM

Kurdistan. They like America more than American liberals do.

Bishop on January 6, 2014 at 4:21 PM

Belize

Murphy9 on January 6, 2014 at 4:18 PM

Heh.

Lanceman on January 6, 2014 at 4:21 PM

We have to pass it to find out what’s in it.
Trojan horse full of horseshit.

CherryBombsBigBrownBeaver on January 6, 2014 at 4:21 PM

I feel relieved that I will not be remembered as the Affirmative Action Amateur President long after I’m gone.
Perhaps thoughts along this line are keeping Moochell in Hawaii?

Missilengr on January 6, 2014 at 4:24 PM

What both opponents and single payer supporters don’t understand is that Obamacare is single payer where the payer has been outsourced to private sector. Health insurance providers don’t define the product. They simply administer the premiums and payouts that the government defines. The Trojan Horse part of the system is the illusion that insurance companies are in charge. The design to fail aspect of the program is supposed to be a multi year process during which the Democrats will attack the private insurance market and declare that we have market failure. Things are not going as planned because the system is crashing from the get go and it is clear the government is the problem.

The idea that Joe at 175% of the poverty line will be jealous of his neighbor at 130% of the poverty line because he is getting medicaid is laughable. O-care make suck but medicaid patients will be sitting at Wal-Mart clinics and the emergency room because few doctors will see them. Medicare is going to be even more unattractive as CMS cuts payments for the old and transfer Medicare funds to pay for welfare patients on Medicaid.

Remember, Insurance is a product that can be created with few strokes of the keyboard. O-care is very easy to undo.

jerryofva on January 6, 2014 at 4:24 PM

Remember Obama inviting Kucinich on to Air Force One while they were debating ACA. Kucinich wanted Public Option/Single payer and after the flight, Dennis was like…..Yea, I’m cool with it.

The Press did its best not to ask too many questions on what was said during that flight. Wink wink, nudge nudge.

WisRich on January 6, 2014 at 4:24 PM

I’d like to see them put some numbers on it. How much does the nation spend on healthcare now, and how much will it spend in 20 years? Then, what would the tax look like to pay for it?

Oh, but it works in Canada. Well, not all that well, really. Plus, Canada doesn’t have to provide the military to offset the Chinese and the Russians from overtaking the world. Canada doesn’t have 320 million residents and another 12 million illegals. Canada doesn’t provide the lion’s share of medical research and innovation. Canada doesn’t have to do a lot of things that we, as the sole superpower and world’s largest economy and the base monetary exchange, have to do. It’s apples and thumbtacks.

BKeyser on January 6, 2014 at 4:25 PM

While we should be concerned about single payer, Ocare may do more harm for the long term entitlement state than any other piece of legislation. Liberals always want to talk about demographics, it’s now well into the 60%+ range in the under-30 crowd thinking there is too much government intrusion into our lives.

PS. The Snowden/NSA affair has also encouraged this belief.

Tater Salad on January 6, 2014 at 4:25 PM

Affordable Care Genocide Act

VorDaj on January 6, 2014 at 4:27 PM

Oh, but it works in Canada. Well, not all that well, really. Plus, Canada doesn’t have to provide the military to offset the Chinese and the Russians from overtaking the world. Canada doesn’t have 320 million residents and another 12 million illegals. Canada doesn’t provide the lion’s share of medical research and innovation. Canada doesn’t have to do a lot of things that we, as the sole superpower and world’s largest economy and the base monetary exchange, have to do. It’s apples and thumbtacks.

BKeyser on January 6, 2014 at 4:25 PM

It works well on paper, just like Ocare, but the reality is that if you need a doctor, get in line.

Tater Salad on January 6, 2014 at 4:27 PM

Why can’t there be jail for lying and stealing like there used to be? This would discourage future democrats from their tendencies to commit serial fraud.

DanMan on January 6, 2014 at 4:29 PM

But until people start seeing evidence of a doctor-shortage, the masses may, indeed, like what they think they’re getting from GovCare.

Bitter Clinger on January 6, 2014 at 4:19 PM

No one will have a problem as long as they are healthy….just wait until they get sick.

Tater Salad on January 6, 2014 at 4:30 PM

The Democrats won’t half to go the ‘half loaf’ technique to get amnesty with citizenship. The GOP will do it for them.

IF the GOP gets the Senate and the House this election, they’ll grant amnesty with ‘a path to citizenship’ themselves, ostensibly in he hopes of garnering some good will with Latino’s, but actually to curry favor with their business donors.

Don’t believe me? Let’s ask everyone’s favorite TEA party senator: Ted Cruz on immigration reform at Tribune Fest 2013

Note that Ted specifically says he’s against a pathway to citizenship. After a green card is handed to every illegal alien at large in this nation how long do we realistically think it will be before the LEFT and the newly legal formerly illegal aliens begin to demand citizenship on the claim that the newly legal formerly illegal aliens have been relegated to a second class status with the amnesty without citizenship?

Also, the border security bill he proposes has no front loaded enforcement period before legalization is granted. A stronger bill was actually passed in 2009. The Obama administration refused to enforce it. Does anyone seriously believe that Obama would enforce any border security bill?

Not only amnesty for all the illegal aliens currently at large in the nation but tripling the legal immigration rate as well.

We have unrelenting unemployment and the Senate and the House wrangling over whether to increase unemployment insurance of 99 weeks, which was supposed to be temporary, by an additional 12 weeks.

If you prefer to see it in print: On immigration, Cruz heads for middle ground

This article was printed 12 days before the filibuster over the proposed Obamcare defunding/delay.

thatsafactjack on January 6, 2014 at 4:30 PM

CaligulaCare

VorDaj on January 6, 2014 at 4:31 PM

Ocare may do more harm for the long term entitlement state than any other piece of legislation. Liberals always want to talk about demographics, it’s now well into the 60%+ range in the under-30 crowd thinking there is too much government intrusion into our lives.

Tater Salad on January 6, 2014 at 4:25 PM

I’d like to agree, but as Rush pointed out today, New York had 12 years to get pissed at the likes of a Nanny Bloomberg. What did they do? They voted for more of it on steroids.

Definition of insanity and all that, I guess.

Lanceman on January 6, 2014 at 4:31 PM

If single payer comes about, I’ll have to content myself with a warm little fuzzy in the pit of my stomach every time a leftist dies from their care in such a system.

And I hope they all do. Slowly.

Hawkins1701 on January 6, 2014 at 4:32 PM

Stuff like this is being written by upper class urban liberals who have NO IDEA how bad Medicaid is. Doctors worth a damn do not accept Medicaid patients. These idiots think you just walk in to the Mayo Clinic and show your Medicaid card and get the same Cadillac health care anyone else gets there.

Does. Not. Work. That. Way.

Believe me, NO ONE with even the barest bones private insurance will ever look at their neighbor on Medicaid and wish he was there.

MediCARE is closer to what the liberal wonks think will happen in a national single-payer program. But costs of Medicare are grossly distorted because of the pitifully low reimbursements and the popularity of private Medigap insurance which covers stuff most people THINK is covered by Medicare but isn’t.

This country will be truly bankrupt within months, with horrible health care for all except the rich, if we get single payer based on either Medicaid or Medicare.

rockmom on January 6, 2014 at 4:37 PM

Let’s reform it back to the way it was. To paraphrase a 1950′s musical, put it back the way it was.

sadatoni on January 6, 2014 at 4:38 PM

Of course Obamacare was a trojan horse for single-payer. But it was never supposed to collapse this quickly. Obama himself in an unguarded moment before he was elected said that he expected it to take at least 10-15 years. Now it’s looking more like 10-15 months. It’s gonna be a very hard sell to a p-ssed off electorate to hand over the entire health care system to a government that couldn’t even launch a freaking website with 3 1/2 years and a billion dollars at its disposal.

Doughboy on January 6, 2014 at 4:38 PM

The basic point is that, by pooling millions of people together in one institutional home—the exchanges where customers buy insurance under Obamacare—the Affordable Care Act is creating an organized constituency for additional reform. And since threadbare coverage is the only affordable option under Obamacare for many of these people, the law is giving them a whole set of grievances to get exercised about.

Noam Scheiber on January 5, 2014, The New Republic

.
I’m pretty sure most of us at Hotair knew this is the case.

I don’t know what the meaning of The New Republic’s willingness to publicly state this is.

listens2glenn on January 6, 2014 at 4:39 PM

But where will Canadians and African dictators get their quality medical care? Will we see the rise of Medical Speakeasies where we knock on thick wooden doors in the middle of the night to see a doctor?

Dhuka on January 6, 2014 at 4:42 PM

What’s the suggestion here, that the “Progressive media” figured this out while other media couldn’t? Why, because other media are too stupid?

AcronisF on January 6, 2014 at 4:44 PM

Single payer robber.

Dr. ZhivBlago on January 6, 2014 at 4:45 PM

Pitchforks and torches..?

d1carter on January 6, 2014 at 4:47 PM

So why is this not a serious crime?
If a business were to purposely sell a product that it knew would malfunction and the only solution was a “fix it patch” from the same company. That would be fraud at best..even if it was a $20. product with a $10. fix, people would be arrested and daily news updates would fill the news cycle if it were any major corporation.
Obamacare cost hundreds of millions of dollars and ruined the peace of mind and health of numerous people. Hundreds of millions of tax dollars just for the website!, at a time of almost economic ruin for the republic.
Why are people not being arrested and pressured for information?

Mimzey on January 6, 2014 at 4:49 PM

One: Lots of ink was spilled over the past two weeks about America’s drift towards libertarianism on pot, civil liberties, gay rights, etc. True enough, but given what it means for America’s fiscal stability, the acid test is on health care and entitlements. Will Americans’ alleged libertarianism lead them to reject single-payer as a fix for O-Care or is Scheiber’s prediction right? If the latter, then we’re not drifting libertarian, we’re drifting left.

It’s only a contradiction for people who understand the reality of fiscal execution. When you frame it like so:
“People want government to give them free money and not tell them they can’t do stuff with it”
Then it all makes perfect sense. The fact that people have no concept of where the free money comes from is a feature, not a bug, as evidenced by progressive refusal to discuss any notion of balancing the budget whatsoever: these two seemingly conflicting notions demonstrate how progs have decoupled federal benefit from federal spending.

The Schaef on January 6, 2014 at 4:50 PM

The numbers in Congress just aren’t there to beat an Obama veto, and by 2017 so many millions will have been assimilated into the program that some critical mass of GOP centrists will end up taking a “mend it, don’t end it” approach

We don’t have to wait for 2017 for this. Both Boehner and McConnell are already say they have no interest in repeal, only “fixing” it.

The GOP has no interest whatsoever in any conservative goals/policy.

People like Allahpundit admit it from time to time, but then go right back to pretending that a vote for an “r” is somehow a vote for anything other than libereralism.

Not sure how exactly that works. But sure, if the GOP takes the senate, blah, blah, blah and then spending cuts!!!

So, let’s all of us conservatives keep voting GOP. Because that will somehow do something that voting DNC won’t do. Like, what, exactly? Not sure. Can’t point to anything. Nominations? I guess? We’ll have a slightly more conservative judiciary while ever bigger and more expensive gov’t. So, that’ll learn ‘em. John Roberts will declare it a tax and there you go.

Monkeytoe on January 6, 2014 at 4:52 PM

Who is this single payer?

kcewa on January 6, 2014 at 4:53 PM

The proggie agenda…lead the horse to water and we will make it drink.

Forget that but if anybody has elderly parents on Medicare, ask what their Med Supp policies cost them to avoid the death panels.

And for anybody with experience with Canadian or UK health care, what languages did you have to learn to speak to your doctor? An old Seinfeld episode about a dog-bite and the need for shots ended with the doctor trying to explain “bow-wow, not bang bang”.

teejk on January 6, 2014 at 4:54 PM

Why, yes, ObamaCare is a trojan horse for single-payer

No shit. I’ve been saying that ever since Nancy-poo rolled it out.

Will the public go along? Well, one lefty who didn’t mind ObamaCare for everyone later said – on viewing her “new” policy….”I didn’t know I was going to pay for it!”

Take a look at the Brit system. THAT IS WHAT WE’LL GET!

On the bright side, it will kill off a lot of folks on Social Security. So the government will save money there.

GarandFan on January 6, 2014 at 4:55 PM

Who is this single payer?

kcewa on January 6, 2014 at 4:53 PM

Excellent.+

Mimzey on January 6, 2014 at 4:55 PM

The progressive media knew all along where this was going and they said nothing until it was safe to do so

B.S.

That’s their “out”…they have to say this because they look so stupid for believing Obama.

Now that they have been caught being “stupid” and it is so obvious, they have to say “Oh, we knew that all along”.

Don’t let them off the hook…the journalists were taken for a ride and were to stupid to understand.

They do that every time, and the conservative’s let them off the hook.

Hey, guess what, they were just plain stupid…

right2bright on January 6, 2014 at 4:56 PM

the journalists were taken for a ride and were to stupid to understand.

right2bright on January 6, 2014 at 4:56 PM

A lot of them knew exactly what was going on. They aren’t interested in reporting news, only advocating for the left.

Monkeytoe on January 6, 2014 at 4:59 PM

Who is this single payer?

kcewa on January 6, 2014 at 4:53 PM

It’s Bob. He’s an ass, so screw him.

Monkeytoe on January 6, 2014 at 4:59 PM

No, they didn’t. The bought the Obama lies hook, line, and sinker.

blink on January 6, 2014 at 4:09 PM

Bought? Or sold?

Call me cynical; I’m still not convinced.

The Schaef on January 6, 2014 at 5:01 PM

Monkeytoe on January 6, 2014 at 4:59 PM

That could use some clarification.

BKeyser on January 6, 2014 at 5:03 PM

Will Americans’ alleged libertarianism lead them to reject single-payer as a fix for O-Care or is Scheiber’s prediction right? If the latter, then we’re not drifting libertarian, we’re drifting left. (Peter Suderman of Reason is naturally optimistic.)

As well he should be, though if that optimism becomes complacency, we’re likely to be in quite a bit if trouble.

Yes, there is a real possibility that this could lead to single payer, but the spectacular failure of this thing has also created an enormous opportunity.

People will opt for single payer over nothing. But why on earth should the alternative be “Nothing”? At any point during the collapse of Obamacare, someone can introduce a bill to allow people to buy and sell some kind of new, new, “quasi-insurance”, which functions just like normal insurance except it is subject to none of the requirements of Obamacare. Proposed as a temporary measure to hold people over while we wait for the realization of Obamacare’s glory to kick in, it can then be made permanent as Obamacare spirals out of control due to adverse selection.

The best part of this is it lets us roll back a lot of pre-Obamacare regulations that were responsible for much of the previous healthcare cost inflation in the first place.

RINO in Name Only on January 6, 2014 at 5:06 PM

Is there any country to the right of America that I can move to if this atrocity actually happens?

Cyhort on January 6, 2014 at 4:18 PM

Belize.

Lanceman on January 6, 2014 at 4:21 PM

Careful there we might have a mass migration and sink the little coastal nation.

Rio Linda Refugee on January 6, 2014 at 5:07 PM

That could use some clarification.

BKeyser on January 6, 2014 at 5:03 PM

Heh. :)

Mimzey on January 6, 2014 at 5:08 PM

It’s obvious America doesn’t give a shit about their DimocRat President and DimocRat party colluding with the State-Run media in order to lie to all of us for the last 4 years.

This country is doomed.

Meople on January 6, 2014 at 5:08 PM

Defenestratus on January 6, 2014 at 4:12 PM

I would never consider a career in medicine these days. The government obviously wants physicians to work for nothing…heck, they want doctors to pay THEM for the “honor” of being a healer.

There is a very large idealistic aspect to wanting to practice medicine, but not at the cost of financial suicide.

NavyMustang on January 6, 2014 at 5:08 PM

Gunlock Bill on January 6, 2014 at 4:18 PM

Do NOT give them any ideas!

NavyMustang on January 6, 2014 at 5:11 PM

That could use some clarification.

BKeyser on January 6, 2014 at 5:03 PM

Bob lives down the street from me. He is the single payer. he never mows his lawn, so I don’t care if they make him pay for this. Obviously, Bob is “the Single Payer”‘s secret identity. I found out when I saw him sneak into his window at 2 a.m. in his “Single Payer” costume. I promised I wouldn’t tell anyone, but I’m sick of his unmowed lawn. Plus, The Single Payer is a lousy superhero. He goes out supposedly to fight crime on our behalf, but I always get stuck with some bill for it. I didn’t ask for him to do that, why should I have to pay for it.

So, I don’t care if Bob gets stuck with the tab for this nonsense.

Monkeytoe on January 6, 2014 at 5:13 PM

This country is doomed.

Meople on January 6, 2014 at 5:08 PM

But but but….at least we’ll have gay marriage and free birth control/abortions!!! At last we will have joined forward thinking nations like Australia. They banned guns, you know.

Lanceman on January 6, 2014 at 5:14 PM

It works well on paper, just like Ocare, but the reality is that if you need a doctor, get in line.

Tater Salad on January 6, 2014 at 4:27 PM

Yes, but only if it’s a very small paper with only a few ACA words on it. Otherwise, it’s a complete catastrophe any way you present it.

NavyMustang on January 6, 2014 at 5:14 PM

One: Lots of ink was spilled over the past two weeks about America’s drift towards libertarianism on pot, civil liberties, gay rights, etc. True enough, but given what it means for America’s fiscal stability, the acid test is on health care and entitlements. Will Americans’ alleged libertarianism lead them to reject single-payer as a fix for O-Care or is Scheiber’s prediction right? If the latter, then we’re not drifting libertarian, we’re drifting left.

Libertarianism is about free markets and republican government. It’s not about who sleeps with whom, how you fix the bad consequences or how you get high. None of things mentioned as a drift toward Libertarianism have anything to do with Liberty.

jerryofva on January 6, 2014 at 5:15 PM

Lots of ink was spilled over the past two weeks about America’s drift towards libertarianismlibertinism on pot, civil liberties, gay rights, etc.

You don’t really think that potheads and libertines are going to oppose single payer????

vilebody on January 6, 2014 at 5:16 PM

I would never consider a career in medicine these days. The government obviously wants physicians to work for nothing…heck, they want doctors to pay THEM for the “honor” of being a healer.

There is a very large idealistic aspect to wanting to practice medicine, but not at the cost of financial suicide.

NavyMustang on January 6, 2014 at 5:08 PM

Everything today is political. Absolutely everything.

If I was still deciding what career path I wanted to take, I wouldn’t go into medicine for the simple reason that I refuse to be a tool for ObamaGlitch and the Federal Government Autocratic machine.

Even if I was already a doctor, I would now be in the process of a career change because of my detest for ObamaGlitch, Socialized healthcare, and leftist DimocRats imposing it on all of us like they did.

Meople on January 6, 2014 at 5:16 PM

But where will Canadians and African dictators get their quality medical care? Will we see the rise of Medical Speakeasies where we knock on thick wooden doors in the middle of the night to see a doctor?

Dhuka on January 6, 2014 at 4:42 PM

Boutique medicine. Coming soon to your neighborhood…I hope.

NavyMustang on January 6, 2014 at 5:17 PM

Do NOT give them any ideas!

NavyMustang on January 6, 2014 at 5:11 PM

I thought it would be safe to mention here because it will be a troll free thread.

Gunlock Bill on January 6, 2014 at 5:20 PM

there is a certain crowd in Washington who, for the last few decades, have said, let’s respond to this economic challenge with the same old tune. “The market will take care of everything,” they tell us. If we just cut more regulations and cut more taxes–especially for the wealthy–our economy will grow stronger. Sure, they say, there will be winners and losers. But if the winners do really well, then jobs and prosperity will eventually trickle down to everybody else. And, they argue, even if prosperity doesn’t trickle down, well, that’s the price of liberty.

this from barry who was elected twice

this from some Forbes guy in response

there is a certain crowd in Washington who, for the last few decades, have said, let’s respond to this economic challenge with the same old tune. “The government will take care of everything,” they tell us. If we just pile on even more regulations and raise taxes–especially on the wealthy–our economy will grow stronger. Sure, they say, there will be winners and losers. But if the losers are protected by more social programs and a higher minimum wage, if there is more Quantitative Easing by the Fed, then jobs and prosperity will eventually trickle up to everybody else. And, they argue, even if prosperity doesn’t trickle up, well, that’s the price of the social safety net.

Now, it’s a simple theory. And we have to admit, it’s one that speaks to our intellectuals’ collectivism and Paul Krugman’s skepticism about freedom. That’s in Harvard’s DNA. And that theory fits well on a bumper sticker. (Laughter.) But here’s the problem: It doesn’t work. It has never worked. (Applause.) It didn’t work when it was tried in the Soviet Union. It’s not what led to the incredible booms in India and China. And it didn’t work when Europe tried it during over the last decades. (Applause.) I mean, understand, it’s not as if we haven’t tried this statist theory.

Sadly the momentum is with the left…the boldness is on the left.

Leftists are fond of chattering/lying about healthcare systems in other countries. But those countries adopted whatever systems they have based on wide support…Not Shoved Down their Throat.

Leftists have grown tired of screwing with the American way, the pesky checks and balances…if you temporarily get a majority, then do everything Now..the fierce urgency of Now…Democracy Now!

can the gop/rino party do much to oppose? No. The tell is that they left has their number…shout racist, etc. etc. etc. and the gop will go away

r keller on January 6, 2014 at 5:20 PM

Monkeytoe on January 6, 2014 at 5:13 PM

Lol. As long as the particular “Bob” is nailed down.

BKeyser on January 6, 2014 at 5:21 PM

Turning this debacle into a ‘single payer’ argument is going to seal his fate. Americans were already lied to once… If they find out that the goal all along (the informed KNEW this), people will be outraged.

Nobody takes Medicaid. NOBODY. Except the DMV. So you tell someone with a child with Autism to go on Medicaid and just watch what happens.

Wow. Talking about shooting yourself in the foot. Americans are self sufficient and over 70% of Americans see the Government as a threat!

Obama lives in the Poverty Pimp Bubble – no doubt because he has suckled on the teet of government from the time he was born to where he stands now.

What a sham. What a shame. What a waste.

Key West Reader on January 6, 2014 at 5:22 PM

Will HHS deciding who lives and who dies be managed by the same partisans who staff the IRS?

Punchenko on January 6, 2014 at 5:24 PM

Nobody takes Medicaid. NOBODY. Except the DMV. So you tell someone with a child with Autism to go on Medicaid and just watch what happens.

Key West Reader on January 6, 2014 at 5:22 PM

Nothing another amnesty with citizenship attached cannot solve.

Punchenko on January 6, 2014 at 5:26 PM

Nothing another amnesty with citizenship attached cannot solve.

Punchenko on January 6, 2014 at 5:26 PM

Quit harshing my mellow! If the RINO’s do Amnesty we’re done. Need Rand Paul and Ted Cruz front and center ASAP.

Come on, SarahPAC!

Key West Reader on January 6, 2014 at 5:29 PM

I’m old enough to remember when it was a sign of utmost wingnuttery to suggest that ObamaCare was but phase one in a government takeover of health care,

I’m old enough to remember when you were saying something similar: that you found it hard to believe that Democrats would design something to fail so hard as a means to get people to accept single-payer. And I was tempted to agree with you, until these cries for single-payer came out in the open. Now, this is really starting to look like what I suspected all along: they’re “Cloward-Pivening” the system, implementing a non-reforming reform that makes the problems worse and assuming people will cry out for a Socialist solution.

I think the only thing that caught the progressives (and those to their Left) by surprise is how fast it crashed, starting with the web site problems. But, in the spirit of opportunism, they’re taking their chance.

irishspy on January 6, 2014 at 5:30 PM

Sadly the momentum is with the left…the boldness is on the left.

r keller on January 6, 2014 at 5:20 PM

When hasn’t it? This country has consistently been moving to the left for a very, very, very long time.

The fleeting normalcy of today will be the heresy and thought-crime of tomorrow. Progress and all of that jazz.

Punchenko on January 6, 2014 at 5:31 PM

Will HHS deciding who lives and who dies be managed by the same partisans who staff the IRS?

Punchenko on January 6, 2014 at 5:24 PM

That right there has been my point all along. The IRS working with HHS, both of which have been proven to have discriminated against groups of people because of their political beliefs are now administering the nation’s healthcare.

The IRS with the whole discrimination/intimidation of Conservative and Tea Party groups prior to the election. And HHS handing out “exemptions” for ObamaGlitch to every political donor, operative and crony of Obama and the DimocRats.

So now, if you happen to be Conservative or even non-registered DimocrRat, you’re going to have your healthcare influenced by your politics. Guaranteed, mark it down, take it to the bank, because it WILL happen.

Meople on January 6, 2014 at 5:32 PM

Who is this single payer?

kcewa on January 6, 2014 at 4:53 PM

BUUUSH!

Del Dolemonte on January 6, 2014 at 5:40 PM

Any fool who falls for the ‘we screwed up the system so you would let us implement a “better” system’ deserves the slavery they get.

yhxqqsn on January 6, 2014 at 5:41 PM

Nothing another amnesty with citizenship attached cannot solve.

Punchenko on January 6, 2014 at 5:26 PM

Quit harshing my mellow! If the RINO’s do Amnesty we’re done. Need Rand Paul and Ted Cruz front and center ASAP.

Come on, SarahPAC!

Key West Reader on January 6, 2014 at 5:29 PM

They’ll just be co-opted by the Establishment like every other politician sent to Washington. Those not co-opted — like the grassroots in the hinterland — have the IRS throwing wrenches in the works. Look at the effort that went into marginalizing the law-abiding middle class people who made up the Tea Party.

Rand Paul might be different. But does anyone see the Chris Christie Establishment $$$ jugger… er… jellynaut not getting the nomination?

Punchenko on January 6, 2014 at 5:42 PM

So now, if you happen to be Conservative or even non-registered DimocrRat, you’re going to have your healthcare influenced by your politics. Guaranteed, mark it down, take it to the bank, because it WILL happen.

Meople on January 6, 2014 at 5:32 PM

Or you’re going to have your politics influenced by your health care. Mom is sick, can I really donate the $20 bucks to Chris Christie?

Punchenko on January 6, 2014 at 5:44 PM

Rand Paul might be different. But does anyone see the Chris Christie Establishment $$$ jugger… er… jellynaut not getting the nomination?

Punchenko on January 6, 2014 at 5:42 PM

It’s going to be one helluva fight. Can’t wait to get in it…

Key West Reader on January 6, 2014 at 5:53 PM

For those of you holding out hope for the GOP to control both house of Congress and the White House, please name one — just one — federal program that was repealed or department/agency that was abolished the last time the GOP ran both branches of government. Go ahead, I’ll wait. They had a hard time getting rid of a Spanish-American War era telephone tax.

pdigaudio on January 6, 2014 at 6:02 PM

Boy, that video at the end is just about enough to make you grind your teeth.

Jesus.

A veritable Who’s Who of progressive whack bags.

BigWyo on January 6, 2014 at 6:15 PM

Step 1: Make a plan.

Step 2: Fail miserably at every step of execution of your plan.

Step 3: Expect huge support for you controlling an even bigger plan with more difficulty; base don your massive failure.

If this execution works I’ve been doing this wrong my entire life. I guess I could get a promotion if I just screwed up everything I touched at work?

Or does this only work for Government officials?

gekkobear on January 6, 2014 at 6:16 PM

Welfare only works when everybody isn’t on it.

Medicare only works (to the extent it does) because three times as many workers are paying for it as there are elderly people using it. You can’t offer everybody in a restaurant the senior discount without going broke.

Liberalism is the belief that the entire population of a country can live off the taxpayer.

TB on January 6, 2014 at 6:37 PM

Single payer… fabulous… that WILL be the death of the Republic…

Khun Joe on January 6, 2014 at 6:58 PM

So, who will be exempt besides the Obamas and the political elite? Very sad.

MN J on January 6, 2014 at 7:19 PM

They see it’s a train wreck. They need to rally the troops so that morale problems don’t lead to its wholesale repeal.

crrr6 on January 6, 2014 at 9:24 PM

“Single payer” like “affordable care” is a blatant lie. Under Single Payer, everybody, who pays taxes, pays and pays and pays.

Dhuka on January 6, 2014 at 10:31 PM

We may be stuck with Obamacare for a long time but we also get Republican control of the government (especially the states) in return. If the 2014 election continues to trend the way it’s trending now, we could see some real shrinkage in the size of the Democratic party. Should the insurance rates rise a lot in late 2014 (and it’s starting to look like they will) the Dems will be in dire straits. The timing could be just awful for them.

The 2010 election, which led to a sea-change in who controlled the redistricting after the 2010 census, was more significant than most folks realize. Nancy Pelosi’s delusional hope that they can retake the house is a sight to see. The new districts make that almost impossible. They had a good year in 2012 and didn’t come close. What the heck does she think will happen in a bad year?

Pythagoras on January 6, 2014 at 11:19 PM