Quotes of the day

posted at 8:01 pm on January 5, 2014 by Allahpundit

The whistleblower-versus-traitor argument has taken on a new dimension with recent moves to curtail the programs that Mr. Snowden revealed. A federal judge ruled that one program was probably unconstitutional, technology companies are demanding changes, lawmakers are considering restrictions, and even a White House panel urged modifications.

If the programs are so debatable, advocates for Mr. Snowden argue, then he should not be punished for bringing them to light

But inside the White House and the Justice Department, Mr. Ledgett’s suggestion has been met with stony opposition. The administration has made no move to reach out to negotiate any kind of deal and makes clear that it has no plans to. Officials express nothing but antipathy for Mr. Snowden, whose disclosures, one argued, have caused Al Qaeda and its allies “to change their tactics.”…

“The irony is the Obama administration welcomes the debate but condemns the man who sparked the debate,” said Anthony D. Romero, the executive director of the A.C.L.U. “The debate would never have happened but for Edward Snowden.”

***

Considering the enormous value of the information he has revealed, and the abuses he has exposed, Mr. Snowden deserves better than a life of permanent exile, fear and flight. He may have committed a crime to do so, but he has done his country a great service. It is time for the United States to offer Mr. Snowden a plea bargain or some form of clemency that would allow him to return home, face at least substantially reduced punishment in light of his role as a whistle-blower, and have the hope of a life advocating for greater privacy and far stronger oversight of the runaway intelligence community…

The shrill brigade of his critics say Mr. Snowden has done profound damage to intelligence operations of the United States, but none has presented the slightest proof that his disclosures really hurt the nation’s security. Many of the mass-collection programs Mr. Snowden exposed would work just as well if they were reduced in scope and brought under strict outside oversight, as the presidential panel recommended.

When someone reveals that government officials have routinely and deliberately broken the law, that person should not face life in prison at the hands of the same government. That’s why Rick Ledgett, who leads the N.S.A.’s task force on the Snowden leaks, recently told CBS News that he would consider amnesty if Mr. Snowden would stop any additional leaks. And it’s why President Obama should tell his aides to begin finding a way to end Mr. Snowden’s vilification and give him an incentive to return home.

***

Opponents of amnesty talk about the danger of encouraging more Snowdens. What’s less clear is what they mean by that. This kind of leak, with this scale and historical reach, is rare; whatever deal he might get is unlikely to be offered to anyone who copies a few files. The best way the government can deter the reckless theft of documents is by doing something about overclassification, which has the unintended (but entirely foreseeable) effect of over-clearing people who need to deal with that data for their jobs. Or if, by more Snowdens, we mean people in government who are alarmed enough by extraconstitutional activities to risk their careers and their liberty, do we really need to fear more Snowdens?. The opposite seems likelier.

This brings us to the second case for amnesty: Snowden has done the country good; he has earned his freedom. That is a line of reason that some in the government will have a hard time accepting. But there are a dozen conversations that would not be taking place without his revelations—conversations with consequences, as illustrated by Judge Richard Leon’s finding, earlier this week, that the N.S.A.’s bulk collection of metadata is likely unconstitutional. Nor is it credible to say that Snowden could have done what he did without breaking the law, not when we have also learned that the normal instruments of oversight and judicial review were broken. When Clapper lied to Wyden, that sealed the case for amnesty.

Isn’t that why there is such a thing as amnesty—to square circles like these? Another option may be the related, slightly lesser absolution of a pardon (unlike an amnesty, it generally involves first saying that you were guilty). A pardon is what Jimmy Carter offered to young men who had evaded the draft for the Vietnam War. Their acts, too, were tied to protests against the logic of the war, and may offer a useful parallel when thinking about Snowden’s legal situation.

***

[Sen. Rand] Paul compared Snowden’s law-breaking to the controversial testimony of Director of National Intelligence James Clapper, who previously testified before Congress that the NSA did not collect data from American citizens intentionally.

“I don’t think we can selectively apply the law. So James Clapper did break the law and there is a prison sentence for that. So did Edward Snowden,” Paul said.

“So I think personally he probably would come home for some penalty of a few years in prison which would be probably not unlike what James Clapper probably deserves for lying to Congress, and that maybe if they served in a prison cell together, we’d become further enlightened as a country over what we should and shouldn’t do,” Paul added…

“I think the only way he’s coming home is if someone would offer him a fair trial with a reasonable sentence, but I don’t think the death penalty,” Paul said of Snowden. “I mean, we’ve had people all over the news, some of the same people who are defending James Clapper lying to Congress are saying ‘off with his head’ or he should be hung from the nearest tree. I don’t think that’s appropriate and I think really in the end, history is going to judge that he revealed great abuses of our government and great abuses of our intelligence community.”

***

My scale weighs against Snowden. He launched an important, overdue debate and reassessment of collection practices. Perhaps that would not have happened otherwise. The intelligence community is reaping the bitter rewards of its combined aversion to transparency and its addiction to employing available technology to maximum potential.

Yet the existing oversight, while flawed, is not as feckless as Snowden portrays it, and the degree of intrusion on Americans’ privacy, while troubling, is not nearly as menacing as he sees it. In the government’s massive database is information about who I called and who they called in turn. Perhaps the government shouldn’t have it; surely, there should be more controls over when they can search it. But my metadata almost certainly hasn’t been scrutinized; even if it has, the content of the calls remains off-limits.

If the scope of Snowden’s theft and subsequent disclosures had been as limited, my scale might balance in the opposite direction. But the theft was massive. The injury to intelligence-gathering is of equal magnitude. “I am still working for the NSA right now,” Snowden announced. “They are the only ones who don’t realize it.”

Orwell might have called that double-think.

***

If that were all that Snowden had done, if his stolen trove of beyond-top-secret documents had dealt only with the NSA’s domestic surveillance, then some form of leniency might be worth discussing.

But Snowden did much more than that. The documents that he gave the Washington Post’s Barton Gellman and the Guardian’s Glenn Greenwald have, so far, furnished stories about the NSA’s interception of email traffic, mobile phone calls, and radio transmissions of Taliban fighters in Pakistan’s northwest territories; about an operation to gauge the loyalties of CIA recruits in Pakistan; about NSA email intercepts to assist intelligence assessments of what’s going on inside Iran; about NSA surveillance of cellphone calls “worldwide,” an effort that (in the Post’s words) “allows it to look for unknown associates of known intelligence targets by tracking people whose movements intersect.” In his first interview with the South China Morning Post, Snowden revealed that the NSA routinely hacks into hundreds of computers in China and Hong Kong…

Whistleblowers have large egos by nature, and there is no crime or shame in that. But one gasps at the megalomania and delusion in Snowden’s statements, and one can’t help but wonder if he is a dupe, a tool, or simply astonishingly naïve.

Along these same lines, it may be telling that Snowden did not release—or at least the recipients of his cache haven’t yet published—any documents detailing the cyber-operations of any other countries, especially Russia or China, even though he would have had access to the NSA’s after-action reports on the hundreds or thousands of hacking campaigns that they too have mounted over the years.

***

[T]he latest installment from the “Snowden files” (as the Post’s subhead put it Friday) made me wonder if what we’re experiencing and reading right now is still journalism, investigative or otherwise, or whether it is becoming something very different. I wonder if, after all the disclosures that have already touched off a major reassessment of National Security Agency surveillance by the U.S. government, what we’re reading now is more like free advertising for a certain point of view — Edward Snowden’s point of view, that is, as well as that of his comrade-in-outrage, Glenn Greenwald…

[D]espite very justifiable doubts about the efficacy of the NSA’s bulk collection of telephony metadata, and very reasonable concerns that more protections should be built in against the possibility of a future J. Edgar Hoover — an abuser of liberty and privacy, in other words — intelligence experts have said most of the agency’s key programs, such as surveillance of emails abroad, have already proven critical to national security. As panel member Michael Morell, the former acting director of the CIA, told me last month, even the telephony program might have helped to avert 9/11. He also said he is in favor of restarting a program the NSA discontinued in 2011 that involved the collection of “metadata” for Internet communications. Both programs together, he added, have “the ability to stop the next 9/11.”

So the question is, what purpose does this endless and seemingly indiscriminate exposure of American national-security secrets serve? This is most definitely not the Pentagon Papers, when the Post and the New York Times exposed the truth about a war already largely gone by. This is, if not quite a war, then at least a genuine present danger to Americans — a threat that is, according to some officials, only growing more dangerous.

***

Snowden has argued that he had a moral duty to challenge an intelligence machinery that was out of control. Hudson Institute senior fellow Gabriel Schoenfeld, author of “Necessary Secrets: National Security, the Media, and the Rule of Law,” is not impressed. Snowden outed U.S. intelligence “for engaging in activity that almost every state engages in.” The former contractor then went into hiding in China and Russia, where he enjoys temporary asylum. “I think it is disgraceful,” quoth Schoenfeld, that Snowden lectures Washington but “doesn’t have the courage to criticize abuses of free speech in his host country.”…

It’s almost funny when you follow the editorial boards’ logic. The papers argued that Snowden is a hero because he leaked material about which the public has a right to know. Then they supported granting amnesty or leniency if Snowden would agree to hand over any remaining documents rather than share them with the world. A trial would give Snowden the opportunity to tell his story, the American public a chance to find out what exactly Snowden leaked and Washington the burden of proving a criminal case — but the Times and The Guardian apparently prefer a backroom deal.

***

***



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Weekend at Bernankes!

Lanceman on January 5, 2014 at 8:04 PM

Ya’ know, the global warming nutballs rescued in the Antarctic would have been a nice QOTD.

Much more entertaining than this.

cozmo on January 5, 2014 at 8:04 PM

Their is only one person who can grant a pardon and he hasn’t said anything on the topic.

RickB on January 5, 2014 at 8:04 PM

Lanceman on January 5, 2014 at 8:04 PM

Ain’t got nuthin’ over weekend at cozmo’s. Not that I’d invite many of y’all.

cozmo on January 5, 2014 at 8:05 PM

Snowden ’16!

For freedom and liberty!

FloatingRock on January 5, 2014 at 8:08 PM

Ya’ know, the global warming nutballs rescued in the Antarctic would have been a nice QOTD.

Much more entertaining than this.

cozmo on January 5, 2014 at 8:04 PM

The global warming in my neck of the woods was pretty intense today.

predator on January 5, 2014 at 8:11 PM

Record cold and 9″ of global warming. I’m glad the larder is full.

Murphy9 on January 5, 2014 at 8:11 PM

Their is only one person who can grant a pardon and he hasn’t said anything on the topic.

RickB on January 5, 2014 at 8:04 PM

RickB: There is a growing line up!:)
====================================

Report: O.J. Simpson Undergoing Tests For Brain Cancer, Seeks Pardon From Obama
Thu, January 02, 2014
*********************

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/health/conditions/cancer/report-oj-simpson-undergoing-tests-brain-cancer-seeks-pardon-obama#

canopfor on January 5, 2014 at 8:14 PM

Murphy9 on January 5, 2014 at 8:11 PM

Currently 9 degrees with-12 wind chill; NNW winds at 25-35 mph and 6-10 of fluffy white global warming. Whew! *wipes sweat from brow*

predator on January 5, 2014 at 8:14 PM

“So I think personally he probably would come home for some penalty of a few years in prison which would be probably not unlike what James Clapper probably deserves for lying to Congress, and that maybe if they served in a prison cell together, we’d become further enlightened as a country over what we should and shouldn’t do,” Paul added…

How can anyone dislike a politician who will say this in public?

kim roy on January 5, 2014 at 8:16 PM

Please continue your prayers for my sister Merrilee. She is somehow blaming herself for not being able to save her son Tommy’s life. She isn’t sleeping or eating well at all; we will bury Tommy on Tuesday…

OmahaConservative on January 5, 2014 at 8:16 PM

Please continue your prayers for my sister Merrilee. She is somehow blaming herself for not being able to save her son Tommy’s life. She isn’t sleeping or eating well at all; we will bury Tommy on Tuesday…

OmahaConservative on January 5, 2014 at 8:16 PM

Of course. It’s good she has you. Take care of yourselves.

kim roy on January 5, 2014 at 8:19 PM

Murphy9 on January 5, 2014 at 8:11 PM

.
Currently 9 degrees with-12 wind chill; NNW winds at 25-35 mph and 6-10 of fluffy white global warming. Whew! *wipes sweat from brow*

predator on January 5, 2014 at 8:14 PM

.
predator ! … you’re still alive: )

listens2glenn on January 5, 2014 at 8:21 PM

OmahaConservative on January 5, 2014 at 8:16 PM

My prayers for your sister and her son.

And prayers that you will be able to help her see that she is not to blame.

Rather she should try to do something great and noble in his memory.

predator on January 5, 2014 at 8:22 PM

Of course. It’s good she has you. Take care of yourselves.

kim roy on January 5, 2014 at 8:19 PM

Thank you. I am one of six of her original seven brothers. We love our sister so much…

OmahaConservative on January 5, 2014 at 8:22 PM

predator ! … you’re still alive … : )

listens2glenn on January 5, 2014 at 8:21 PM

Yup. Good to see ya l2g. Just haven’t had as much time for “conversing” as I’ve had in the past. Things going on. All is well. The same for you I hope.
;)

predator on January 5, 2014 at 8:23 PM

I’m just going to keep posting my earlier “thought experiment” for all those damning Snowden …

Point of fact: No one has proved HOW many documents Snowden accessed.

Originally, it was considered to be selected documents detailing the scope of the “surveillance empire”.

Then, in pursuit of Greenwald’s partner, the British government went into court and declared, but did not prove, it was 50,000 documents

At the beginning of December, the “anonymous sources” upped the ante to 1.7 million.

But no more than two weeks later … another anonymous source went fully hyperbolic and claimed “he got everything”.
.
.
So … the Obama administration, the most repressive administration with regard to leaks BEFORE Snowden said a word, is now overrun with “anonymous sources” doing there absolute best to paint Snowden as a modern day Moriarity.

Here’s the thought experiment question.

WHY are you believing these “anonymous sources” from an administration which will live in infamy for the lies of its leader – much less his underlings?

Note: I’m not arguing Snowden is a hero or a villain. I am asking WHY you are taking the anonymous word of a group of villains as gospel?

From everyone wanting to “hang” Snowden, I’d appreciate your reasoning.

PolAgnostic on January 5, 2014 at 8:24 PM

predator on January 5, 2014 at 8:22 PM

Always good to see you and thanks for the prayers…

OmahaConservative on January 5, 2014 at 8:25 PM

Please continue your prayers for my sister Merrilee. She is somehow blaming herself for not being able to save her son Tommy’s life. She isn’t sleeping or eating well at all; we will bury Tommy on Tuesday…

OmahaConservative on January 5, 2014 at 8:16 PM

.
Request granted . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

listens2glenn on January 5, 2014 at 8:27 PM

I’m not totally unconvinced that Snowden isn’t part of a psyop.

Murphy9 on January 5, 2014 at 8:29 PM

listens2glenn on January 5, 2014 at 8:21 PM

.
Yup. Good to see ya l2g. Just haven’t had as much time for “conversing” as I’ve had in the past. Things going on. All is well. The same for you I hope.
;)

predator on January 5, 2014 at 8:23 PM

.
I understand full well about the “haven’t had as much time for “conversing”.

Still … better to be busy, than to be bored to tears.

listens2glenn on January 5, 2014 at 8:29 PM

Snowden, unemployment benefit extension, minimum wage, anything the regime and the lackies in the lsm can bring up to take public attention away from the continuing failure that is Obamacare.

predator on January 5, 2014 at 8:34 PM

Please continue your prayers for my sister Merrilee. She is somehow blaming herself for not being able to save her son Tommy’s life. She isn’t sleeping or eating well at all; we will bury Tommy on Tuesday…

OmahaConservative on January 5, 2014 at 8:16 PM

Still on it. Help her see that sometimes,there’s nothing you can do.

sincerely,

eon

eon on January 5, 2014 at 8:35 PM

Thank you. I am one of six of her original seven brothers. We love our sister so much…

OmahaConservative on January 5, 2014 at 8:22 PM

Wow! Then she’s in fantastic hands. :) Prayers and thoughts….

kim roy on January 5, 2014 at 8:36 PM

I’m not totally unconvinced that Snowden isn’t part of a psyop.

Murphy9 on January 5, 2014 at 8:29 PM

.
Until I learn some more credible, verifiable detail about Edward Snowden, anything is a possibility, including what you just now said.

listens2glenn on January 5, 2014 at 8:36 PM

Still … better to be busy, than to be bored to tears.

listens2glenn on January 5, 2014 at 8:29 PM

Yes it is.

Changes in processes at work and the approach of the Kentucky Derby trail have been taking up a lot of time. KD trail will start in earnest within a couple of weeks.

predator on January 5, 2014 at 8:37 PM

Please continue your prayers for my sister Merrilee. She is somehow blaming herself for not being able to save her son Tommy’s life. She isn’t sleeping or eating well at all; we will bury Tommy on Tuesday…

OmahaConservative on January 5, 2014 at 8:16 PM

…will do OC…there has been a weird type of deadly flu going around…no one knew could be deadly…not her fault!

KOOLAID2 on January 5, 2014 at 8:37 PM

Please continue your prayers for my sister Merrilee. She is somehow blaming herself for not being able to save her son Tommy’s life. She isn’t sleeping or eating well at all; we will bury Tommy on Tuesday…

OmahaConservative on January 5, 2014 at 8:16 PM

done, what happened?
I missed it, prayed lord gives you all strength to get through this.

dmacleo on January 5, 2014 at 8:40 PM

From everyone wanting to “hang” Snowden, I’d appreciate your reasoning.

PolAgnostic on January 5, 2014 at 8:24 PM

1. I doubt that Snowden could ever trust any “deal” with The One and his minions. Not only are they compulsive liars, but he blew the whistle on spying ops aimed not at America’s enemies, but at The One’s political opponents, whom he regards as the only enemies “His” America has.

The One does not forgive that sort of “betrayal”.

2. The fact that Snowden had access to classified data, much of it compartmentalized and code-word, tells me the NSA’s “security” is virtually non-existent. Snowden took advantage of that, but the fault lies with those who let an outside contractor have access to things he should not even have known existed.

NSA is broken, and I find myself increasingly suspecting that it cannot be “fixed”.

If so, the agency should be abolished. It does us no good, and seems to do us nothing but harm.

clear ether

eon

eon on January 5, 2014 at 8:42 PM

Please continue your prayers for my sister Merrilee. She is somehow blaming herself for not being able to save her son Tommy’s life. She isn’t sleeping or eating well at all; we will bury Tommy on Tuesday…

OmahaConservative on January 5, 2014 at 8:16 PM

Just a horrible thing to have happen, and for your sis to have to go through. It’s no one’s fault. Take care of yourself as well as your sis.

kcewa on January 5, 2014 at 8:42 PM

Report: O.J. Simpson Undergoing Tests For Brain Cancer, Seeks Pardon From Obama
Thu, January 02, 2014

Perhaps Obama can help O.J. find Nichole’s killer on the golf course.

bw222 on January 5, 2014 at 8:43 PM

I hate progs.
They think they rule.

They don’t.

Find out the hard way?

Maybe.

wolly4321 on January 5, 2014 at 8:48 PM

Report: O.J. Simpson Undergoing Tests For Brain Cancer, Seeks Pardon From Obama
Thu, January 02, 2014

Perhaps Obama can help O.J. find Nichole’s killer on the golf course.

bw222 on January 5, 2014 at 8:43 PM

Well, they cut Lynne Stewart loose, so nothing after that would surprise me.

predator on January 5, 2014 at 8:48 PM

Somehow a post from Chris Cilizza about MHP & Mitt ended up on my fb newsfeed. The comments that got the most likes were pro-Mitt:

Mitt Romney is a gentlemen. I wish he would run again. Certainly was a mistake not to elect him the last time. (367 likes)

Class act. (168 likes)

He has more class than she could ever dream of having (264 likes)
Romney may not run but Mitt Romney was the most qualified person to run for president in years & I’ll assure you this country would be a hell of a lot better off if he had won than it is now. Those lame reasons like “He can’t relate to me” is BS. I couldn’t give a rats ass less if he can’t relate to me, I ain’t going to be sittin’ around breakin’ bread with him. Fix the effin’ country & everything else will fall into place. (297 likes)

He is one class act. (174 likes)

Question… Who would you ask for advice on investing your 401k: Obama or Romney? If you answered Romney, why would you pick Obama to rebuild our economy ? (174 likes)

What a bunch of stupid lefties on this thread. And the author is just so in love with dear leader he can’t see straight. WashPo is a sack of garbage. Mitt is a gentleman. (140 likes)

A very gracious man. Too bad we don’t have him in the W.H. (and if you’ve seen the series SCANDAL you know how O won the election.) (169 likes)

Romney is the much better and bigger person. It truly is Americas loss that he’s not President. (202 likes)

22044 on January 5, 2014 at 8:49 PM

Michelle Obama’s early 50th Birthday gift: Staying in Hawaii

Checking to see if the taxpayer’s will subsidize a Birthday trip to Hawaii for me and my friends.

kcewa on January 5, 2014 at 8:51 PM

NSA is broken, and I find myself increasingly suspecting that it cannot be “fixed”.

If so, the agency should be abolished. It does us no good, and seems to do us nothing but harm.

eon on January 5, 2014 at 8:42 PM

.
I’ll go with abolishing the NSA, broken or not.

listens2glenn on January 5, 2014 at 8:52 PM

Please continue your prayers for my sister Merrilee. She is somehow blaming herself for not being able to save her son Tommy’s life. She isn’t sleeping or eating well at all; we will bury Tommy on Tuesday…

OmahaConservative on January 5, 2014 at 8:16 PM

As I wrote last week, one of my wife’s co-workers had the same experience. Her 23 year old daughter also died of the flu. They took her to the hospital, but it was too late.

Your sister and your entire family are in my prayers.

bw222 on January 5, 2014 at 8:52 PM

Changes in processes at work and the approach of the Kentucky Derby trail have been taking up a lot of time. KD trail will start in earnest within a couple of weeks.

predator on January 5, 2014 at 8:37 PM

.
You mean it hasn’t already ?

listens2glenn on January 5, 2014 at 8:55 PM

God’s Richest Blessing’s to you all. I cannot stand to see my beloved sister in so much pain and anguish over the death of her only and beloved son. Our big family is assembling from all over the country, so we have that. And we all have faith in Jesus’ Resurrection and promise of eternal life, but it still hurts…

OmahaConservative on January 5, 2014 at 9:00 PM

Omaha, my prayers to your family during this difficult time. May the Lord provide peace, comfort, and healing.

Philly on January 5, 2014 at 9:01 PM

You mean it hasn’t already ?

listens2glenn on January 5, 2014 at 8:55 PM

It begins for real in Florida, Louisiana, and California shortly. These are the races that are considered to be official prep races. They are part of the new points system initiated last year. A couple of races for two-year-olds are in the points system, but not many.

The old “money-won-in-stakes-races” system was flawed and has been replaced.

predator on January 5, 2014 at 9:02 PM

22044 on January 5, 2014 at 8:49 PM

You kidding? We couldn’t have Willard. He had magic underwear or something.

TV said so.

Lanceman on January 5, 2014 at 9:02 PM

OmahaConservative on January 5, 2014 at 9:00 PM

Please relay our feelings and hopes to your sister. Perhaps it will help see her through.

predator on January 5, 2014 at 9:03 PM

No words, OmahaConservative, just prayers going up for His presence to comfort your sister and your family.

22044 on January 5, 2014 at 9:04 PM

OmahaConservative on January 5, 2014 at 8:16 PM

OC my thoughts and prayers continue. It’s so very hard for all of you but especially your sister. I pray she finds the strength.

I’m glad she’s got all of you taking care of her.

_____

and to everyone else….Evening!

CoffeeLover on January 5, 2014 at 9:04 PM

Good evening, CL. How’s the java? ;)

predator on January 5, 2014 at 9:05 PM

NSA officials lying to congress and spying on Americans should be the ones in jail.

Clark1 on January 5, 2014 at 9:05 PM

OC – saying a prayer for your sister. She’ll make it through with all of you there to love and support her.

I have two blankets on, the heat cranked up and I’m still cold. Time for some hot chocolate. It’s going to be a cold couple of days.

gophergirl on January 5, 2014 at 9:13 PM

Hi predator…always good to see you. :) I just went for refill.

CoffeeLover on January 5, 2014 at 9:13 PM

Oh did anybody see Peter King’s latest comment on Rand Paul.

That guys is crazy – King not Paul :)

gophergirl on January 5, 2014 at 9:14 PM

That guys is crazy – King not Paul :)

gophergirl on January 5, 2014 at 9:14 PM

Peter King–The Duke of New York’s GOPe.

predator on January 5, 2014 at 9:16 PM

OK. HA is acting screwy tonight.

Lanceman on January 5, 2014 at 9:24 PM

Hi Merm.

if you see Scrumpy tell her that Sparky told Merm to tell Scrumpy to say Hi to Lanceman.

SparkPlug on January 5, 2014 at 9:24 PM

Hi CL.

#fills her cup with fresh hot java#

SparkPlug on January 5, 2014 at 9:26 PM

I saw the clip. NYC deserves Peter King and de Blasio.

CoffeeLover on January 5, 2014 at 9:26 PM

Nailing Snowden’s ass to a wall is a luxury, if we ever get that opportunity…. Personally, I’m more interested in what we are to do about police state that is being erected. The 1st, 2nd, 4th, and 5th Amendments are being eroded daily, and I don’t believe for a second that the founders would approve of the IRS, TSA, DHS, and the rest f the alphabet agencies, not to mention NDAA…

America still feels free, but how free are we really, and for how long?

I remember reading an interview with Patti Smith, a quasi-punk rocker from the late 70′s and she described the music industry and the concept of “fascist boogie”… Fascist boogie makes you FEEL like you are boogieing, but there is an invisible hand holding your head, so you don’t boogie out of place.

That feels about right…

PointnClick on January 5, 2014 at 9:27 PM

SparkPlug on January 5, 2014 at 9:26 PM

A man after me old heart!!! :)

How are you doing Spark. Staying warm?

CoffeeLover on January 5, 2014 at 9:27 PM

PointnClick on January 5, 2014 at 9:27 PM

I so like her and her music back in the day :)

CoffeeLover on January 5, 2014 at 9:29 PM

22044 on January 5, 2014 at 8:49 PM

…very good…it was the way…I felt about him!

KOOLAID2 on January 5, 2014 at 9:30 PM

Texas Court Throws 2nd, 4th Amendments Under The Bus

http://www.westernjournalism.com/texas-court-throws-2nd-4th-amendments-under-the-bus/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=texas-court-throws-2nd-4th-amendments-under-the-bus

Texas courts have ruled that because legally owned firearms represent “a threat of physical violence” to police, officers may ignore the 4th Amendment rights of Texas residents by treating ALL legally issued warrants as “No Knock” warrants, even if the issuing judge has made it clear that officers “…must knock on the door and announce their identity and purpose before attempting a forcible entry.”

They aren’t going to stop.

Murphy9 on January 5, 2014 at 9:34 PM

What was Obama saying about a domestic security force?

Murphy9 on January 5, 2014 at 9:35 PM

CoffeeLover on January 5, 2014 at 9:27 PM

I got my blankie that keeps me warm when B9 Is out surfing.

SparkPlug on January 5, 2014 at 9:35 PM

Texas courts have ruled that because legally owned firearms represent “a threat of physical violence” to police, officers may ignore the 4th Amendment rights of Texas residents by treating ALL legally issued warrants as “No Knock” warrants, even if the issuing judge has made it clear that officers “…must knock on the door and announce their identity and purpose before attempting a forcible entry.”

Did these judges forget what ZIP codes they are talking about?

Somebody better call FTD and tell them to stock up on white lillie’s….

PointnClick on January 5, 2014 at 9:37 PM

SparkPlug on January 5, 2014 at 9:24 PM

I’ll Merm you!!!

Lanceman on January 5, 2014 at 9:37 PM

SparkPlug on January 5, 2014 at 9:35 PM

maybe she’s shopping. A wee bit too cool down here this week to go surfing. LOL

CoffeeLover on January 5, 2014 at 9:41 PM

OC – saying a prayer for your sister. She’ll make it through with all of you there to love and support her.

I have two blankets on, the heat cranked up and I’m still cold. Time for some hot chocolate. It’s going to be a cold couple of days.

gophergirl on January 5, 2014 at 9:13 PM

It is bitter cold here with north winds. Considering smoking in the basement…

OmahaConservative on January 5, 2014 at 9:44 PM

It is bitter cold here with north winds. Considering smoking in the basement…

OmahaConservative on January 5, 2014 at 9:44 PM

You could try the boy’s room.

predator on January 5, 2014 at 9:45 PM

The Founding Fathers would say “If I had a son, he would look like Edward Snowden and if King George had a son, he would look like the NSA”.

VorDaj on January 5, 2014 at 9:45 PM

Oh did anybody see Peter King’s latest comment on Rand Paul.

That guys is crazy – King not Paul :)

gophergirl on January 5, 2014 at 9:14 PM

King seems to be trying to out wacko McCain.

VorDaj on January 5, 2014 at 9:52 PM

ROFL at the Packers.

All I have to say.

Bishop on January 5, 2014 at 9:53 PM

http://www.theamericanconservative.com/articles/how-police-became-a-standing-army/

On July 15, the Wisconsin Department of Natural Resources (DNR) sent 13 law-enforcement officers to execute a paramilitary raid on a no-kill animal shelter in Kenosha. The crime? The shelter was harboring a fawn that had been abandoned by its mother and named Giggles by shelter volunteers. The shelter intended to turn the animal over to a wildlife reserve the next day, but that was not good enough for the DNR. Wisconsin law forbids the possession of wildlife, so DNR sent the heavily armed team to capture and euthanize Giggles.

Eleven days later and less than 100 miles away, staff at a nursing home in the Chicago suburb of Park Forest called paramedics after 95-year-old World War II veteran John Wrana, suffering from a delusional episode, refused medical treatment. The paramedics in turn called the police, which further agitated Wrana, who threatened them with his cane and a knife. The police responded by shooting Wrana with stun guns and bean bags fired from a shotgun. Wrana died from internal bleeding shortly thereafter.

Murphy9 on January 5, 2014 at 9:53 PM

An appropriate song:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8KQmps-Sog

FloatingRock on January 5, 2014 at 9:54 PM

It is bitter cold here with north winds. Considering smoking in the basement…

OmahaConservative on January 5, 2014 at 9:44 PM

…just came from having a smoke on the front porch…I spent hours during the day clearing a path from the car to the street…(if they ever get to doing the road tomorrow) …supposed to stop snowing by 4 AM…when it started coming down 2 inches an hour…I gave up!…doesn’t look like I was even out there!
…stray cats are in the garage…and they don’t even run out of the dog opening when I check on them…there’s 25 to 30 inches of snow out there…with no paw prints!

KOOLAID2 on January 5, 2014 at 9:55 PM

Michelle Obama’s early 50th Birthday gift: Staying in Hawaii

Checking to see if the taxpayer’s will subsidize a Birthday trip to Hawaii for me and my friends.

kcewa on January 5, 2014 at 8:51 PM

Strange “Gift”. Who’s she hanging out alone with? And who’s paying, 0bama personally?

Who is John Galt on January 5, 2014 at 10:02 PM

Koolaid,I’d let the poor cats stay inside tonight. I’d even let raccoons stay in…

OmahaConservative on January 5, 2014 at 10:09 PM

“The irony is the Obama administration welcomes the debate but condemns the man who sparked the debate,” said Anthony D. Romero, the executive director of the A.C.L.U. “The debate would never have happened but for Edward Snowden.”

I’m not sure what makes him think Obama welcomes the debate. Because, in the face of the inevitable, he said so?

Fenris on January 5, 2014 at 10:17 PM

Texas Court Throws 2nd, 4th Amendments Under The Bus

http://www.westernjournalism.com/texas-court-throws-2nd-4th-amendments-under-the-bus/?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=texas-court-throws-2nd-4th-amendments-under-the-bus

They aren’t going to stop.

Murphy9 on January 5, 2014 at 9:34 PM

.
From the “Detroit Police Chief” thread, this afternoon:
.

In Detroit, top cop says: “Carry a gun!”

But in Texas, believe it or else:

Texas courts have ruled that because legally owned firearms represent “a threat of physical violence” to police, officers may ignore the 4th Amendment rights of Texas residents by treating ALL legally issued warrants as “No Knock” warrants, even if the issuing judge has made it clear that officers “…must knock on the door and announce their identity and purpose before attempting a forcible entry.”

Akzed on January 5, 2014 at 12:05 PM

.
Thank you for posting that link, Akzed.

(multiple expletives) “black-robed bench sitters.”

Texas citizens should raise the BIGGEST outcry, over this.

How (expletive) flagrant can you (expletive) get ?

HEY ! … RELEVANT TEXAS COURT ….. I hold YOU in contempt of law abiding citizens and the U.S. Constitution.

listens2glenn on January 5, 2014 at 1:03 PM

listens2glenn on January 5, 2014 at 10:19 PM

Hey everyone,

I have seen some cross posts about RWM (Resist We Must) or Sophie Ro.

https://twitter.com/SophieRo3

Did something happen to her?

portlandon on January 5, 2014 at 10:20 PM

Hey everyone,

I have seen some cross posts about RWM (Resist We Must) or Sophie Ro.

https://twitter.com/SophieRo3

Did something happen to her?

portlandon on January 5, 2014 at 10:20 PM

.
Most of us noticed her ‘abrupt’ absence, just before Christmas.

I haven’t heard anything else.

listens2glenn on January 5, 2014 at 10:27 PM

listens2glenn on January 5, 2014 at 10:19 PM

Thank you, I forgot who had posted that earlier today!

Murphy9 on January 5, 2014 at 10:29 PM

Most of us noticed her ‘abrupt’ absence, just before Christmas.

I haven’t heard anything else.

listens2glenn on January 5, 2014 at 10:27 PM

Here is what I was talking about. Someone was referring to her in the past tense:

And no I don’t think Sophie (RWM) falls under #2 of the top list. She was a bright light in a murky world.

Difficultas_Est_Imperium on January 5, 2014 at 11:55 AM

portlandon on January 5, 2014 at 10:29 PM

For you peeps in the Sate of Indiana:
======================================

Winter storm, bitter cold across US Midwest, Jan. 4-6, 2013
12m

It’s now illegal to be on Indianapolis roads except for emergencies or seeking shelter, the mayor said – @breakingweather
see original on twitter.com

http://www.breakingnews.com/topic/winter-storm-expected-in-midwest-jan-4-6-2013/
=============

Indiana Want Me – R Dean Taylor – 1970
**************************************

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w2uoyj8MpeI

canopfor on January 5, 2014 at 10:29 PM

Did something happen to her?

portlandon on January 5, 2014 at 10:20 PM

Well, she posted on Dec 17. It’s not unheard of to take a two week vacation or so over the holidays. At least, it didn’t used to be. Nowadays we carry around cellphones and can be pestered 24/7, and are beholden to people we’ve never even met except for online. I’m sure she’s fine. Unless she’s not …you never know.

Fenris on January 5, 2014 at 10:32 PM

Strange “Gift”. Who’s she hanging out alone with? And who’s paying, 0bama personally?

Who is John Galt on January 5, 2014 at 10:02 PM

Her Friends. Obama will probably reimburse the gov for the cost of a commercial airplane ticket back and whatever a hotel room would cost as he did when she went to Spain.

We will pay room and board for the staff and secret service. And of course she’s not flying on a commercial plane or staying in a hotel so he’s only paying a token amount of her real costs.

kcewa on January 5, 2014 at 10:34 PM

RWM hasn’t updated her blog since the 17th of Dec.

Murphy9 on January 5, 2014 at 10:34 PM

RWM hasn’t updated her blog since the 17th of Dec.

Murphy9 on January 5, 2014 at 10:34 PM

I hope Sophie’s OK.

Lanceman on January 5, 2014 at 10:36 PM

Here is what I was talking about. Someone was referring to her in the past tense:

And no I don’t think Sophie (RWM) falls under #2 of the top list. She was a bright light in a murky world.

Difficultas_Est_Imperium on January 5, 2014 at 11:55 AM

portlandon on January 5, 2014 at 10:29 PM

.
THAT … I was not aware of.
.
I followed your twitter link, but failed to observe the language.

Now I don’t know what to think . . . . . . . .

listens2glenn on January 5, 2014 at 10:38 PM

I followed your twitter link, but failed to observe the language.

Now I don’t know what to think . . . . . . . .

listens2glenn on January 5, 2014 at 10:38 PM

.
I don’t know why I added “twitter” to that.

listens2glenn on January 5, 2014 at 10:41 PM

Anybody remember where Sophie lives?

Lanceman on January 5, 2014 at 10:43 PM

She said she went Galt. Maybe she went off the grid altogether.

Murphy9 on January 5, 2014 at 10:45 PM

Anybody remember where Sophie lives?

Lanceman on January 5, 2014 at 10:43 PM

Manhattan, IIRC.

Who is John Galt on January 5, 2014 at 10:59 PM

She said she went Galt. Maybe she went off the grid altogether.

Murphy9 on January 5, 2014 at 10:45 PM

I went Galt. I’m driving an OTR truck after 30 years of computer programming, and I’m still here.

I’m worried, she was very prolific on her blog.

Who is John Galt on January 5, 2014 at 11:01 PM

Who is John Galt on January 5, 2014 at 11:01 PM

And clearly spent a lot of time researching her daily posts.

Who is John Galt on January 5, 2014 at 11:02 PM

I went Galt. I’m driving an OTR truck after 30 years of computer programming, and I’m still here.

I’m worried, she was very prolific on her blog.

Who is John Galt on January 5, 2014 at 11:01 PM

Heh, I went Galtish. I did biological research in the public and private sectors. Now I am a laborer with the UAW.

Murphy9 on January 5, 2014 at 11:14 PM

China Seizes 3 Tons of Crystal Meth

Probably the only time I link to The Jakarta Globe.

http://www.thejakartaglobe.com/international/china-seizes-3-tons-of-crystal-meth/

Take that NW Arkansas!

Murphy9 on January 5, 2014 at 11:22 PM

1. I doubt that Snowden could ever trust any “deal” with The One and his minions. Not only are they compulsive liars, but he blew the whistle on spying ops aimed not at America’s enemies, but at The One’s political opponents, whom he regards as the only enemies “His” America has.

The One does not forgive that sort of “betrayal”.

2. The fact that Snowden had access to classified data, much of it compartmentalized and code-word, tells me the NSA’s “security” is virtually non-existent. Snowden took advantage of that, but the fault lies with those who let an outside contractor have access to things he should not even have known existed.

NSA is broken, and I find myself increasingly suspecting that it cannot be “fixed”.

If so, the agency should be abolished. It does us no good, and seems to do us nothing but harm.

clear ether

eon

eon on January 5, 2014 at 8:42 PM

.
I doubt Snowden is foolish enough to return to the United States. It is far easier for him to remain outside with “leverage” than it would be to establish any secure existence in the U.S. without it.

With regard to the completely unasked question by the media of “What REALLY happened?”

Two takeaways:

1) Here is a quote from June about the Verizon FISA court warrant. It helps to put back in perspective the virtual impossibility of Snowden having obtained the FISA court document by himself. Note the last paragraph I have emphasized – these were standalone FISA court systems, not NSA systems.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2013/06/18/fbi-looks-for-leaks-at-foreign-intelligence-surveillance-court.html

The officials say phone companies like Verizon are not allowed to store a digital copy of the warrant, and that the documents are not accessible on most NSA internal classified computer networks or on the Joint Worldwide Intelligence Communications System, the top-secret internet used by the U.S. intelligence community.

The warrants reside on two computer systems affiliated with the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court and the National Security Division of the Department of Justice. Both systems are physically separated from other government-wide computer networks and employ sophisticated encryption technology, the officials said. Even lawmakers and staff lawyers on the House and Senate intelligence committees can only view the warrants in the presence of Justice Department attorneys, and are prohibited from taking notes on the documents.

“The only time that our attorneys would have gotten to read one was if Justice Department lawyers came over with it in a secure pouch and sat there with them when they read them,” said Pete Hoekstra, a former Republican chairman and ranking member of the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence. “There was never one in the intelligence-committee spaces, never one left there without someone from the Justice Department. It would not have been left there overnight.”

U.S. intelligence officials were careful to say investigators have not yet concluded there is a mole inside the FISA Court or that the secure databases that store the court warrants have been compromised, only that both prospects were under active investigation.

.
2) Somebody REALLY important is setting up Snowden to take the fall for stealing massive amounts of American intelligence data. Far more than is remotely credible – HOW MANY thumb drives or USB external drives are we supposed to believe he “walked” in and out of a NSA facility? To take 1.7 million documents … did he somehow talk EVERYBODY into letting him set up his own personal server base “for backups”?

Or has Snowden provided an “crisis opportunity” for the Obama administration to explain away a massive intelligence ‘disruption’ done by a mole in the administration who, if revealed, would bring about the inevitable impeachment of Barack Obama?

PolAgnostic on January 5, 2014 at 11:27 PM

Anybody remember where Sophie lives?

Lanceman on January 5, 2014 at 10:43 PM

Sophie lives in Axes dreams.

SparkPlug on January 5, 2014 at 11:27 PM

Lanceman on January 5, 2014 at 10:36 PM

I think Axe said she went on vacation and that she was fine.

Hope he will update us.

Barred on January 5, 2014 at 11:30 PM

listens2glenn on January 5, 2014 at 10:27 PM

portlandon on January 5, 2014 at 10:29 PM

Murphy9 on January 5, 2014 at 10:34 PM

Lanceman on January 5, 2014 at 10:43 PM

.
My understanding is RWM is ok and has gone offline for the time being.

PolAgnostic on January 5, 2014 at 11:36 PM

Or has Snowden provided an “crisis opportunity” for the Obama administration to explain away a massive intelligence ‘disruption’ done by a mole in the administration who, if revealed, would bring about the inevitable impeachment of Barack Obama?

PolAgnostic on January 5, 2014 at 11:27 PM

This statement is both spooky, and completely feasible.

This administration is capable of anything.

portlandon on January 5, 2014 at 11:39 PM

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