Quotes of the day

posted at 8:31 pm on January 4, 2014 by Allahpundit

Black-clad Sunni militants of Al Qaeda destroyed the Falluja Police Headquarters and mayor’s office, planted their flag atop other government buildings and decreed the western Iraqi city to be their new independent state on Friday in an escalating threat to Prime Minister Nuri Kamal al-Maliki, whose forces were struggling to retake control late into the night…

The group’s fighters cut power lines in Falluja late in the day and ordered residents not to use their backup generators. In one area of Falluja, a militant said over a mosque loudspeaker: “We are God’s rule on Earth! No one can defeat God’s will!”…

“We declare Falluja as an Islamic state, and we call on you to be on our side!” one fighter shouted to the crowd, according to witness accounts.

Referring to Mr. Maliki’s government and its Shiite ally Iran, the fighter shouted, “We are here to defend you from the army of Maliki and the Iranian Safavids!” The Safavid dynasty ruled present-day Iran and Iraq hundreds of years ago.

***

Al Qaeda’s Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL) has been tightening its grip in the Sunni-dominated desert province, near the Syrian border, in recent months in a bid to create an Islamic state across the Iraqi-Syrian borders.

In Ramadi, the other main city in Anbar, tribesmen and the army have worked together to counter al Qaeda militants seeking to take control.

But in Falluja, ISIL’s task has been made easier by the cooperation of tribesmen, who have joined forces with it against the government

Officials and witnesses in Falluja said the northern and eastern parts of the city were under the control of tribesmen and militants after residents fled the neighborhoods to take refuge from the army shelling.

***

Fallujah’s streets are all but empty except for cars navigating alleys in an attempt to escape clashes and shelling on the outskirts…

“I will escape with my wife and children, as I am afraid they will die, because security forces are no longer able to distinguish between gunmen, Al-Qaeda and civilians,” says Ahmed Mutlak, 52, who owns a shop in central Fallujah.

***

“At the moment, there is no presence of the Iraqi state in Fallujah,” said a local journalist who asked not to be named because he fears for his safety. “The police and the army have abandoned the city, al-Qaeda has taken down all the Iraqi flags and burned them, and it has raised its own flag on all the buildings.”…

In the provincial capital, Ramadi, tribal fighters have succeeded in ejecting al-Qaeda loyalists, according to Ahmed Abu Risha, a tribal leader who fought alongside U.S. troops against al-Qaeda in Iraq following the “surge” of U.S. troops in 2007…

But it was unclear whether all the tribal fighters battling the al-Qaeda-affiliated militants were doing so in alliance with the Iraqi government. The current violence evolved from a year-long, largely peaceful Sunni revolt against Maliki’s Shiite-dominated government that drew inspiration from the Arab Spring demonstrations elsewhere in the region. But it was rooted in the sectarian disputes left unresolved when U.S. troops withdrew and inflamed by the escalating conflict in neighboring Syria…

When Maliki dispatched the Iraqi army to quell a protest in Ramadi this week, local tribes fought back. Maliki ordered the troops to withdraw, creating an opportunity for al-Qaeda fighters to surge into towns from their desert strongholds and triggering battles across the province.

***

Iraqi troops trying to retake Anbar province from a mixture of Islamist and tribal foes battled al Qaeda fighters in Ramadi on Saturday after shelling the western region’s other main city, Falluja, overnight, tribal leaders and officials said.

At least eight people were killed and 30 were wounded in Falluja, and residents of both cities said the fighting had limited their access to food, and that they were running low on generator fuel…

Tribal leader Sheikh Rafe’a Abdulkareem Albu Fahad said the tribesmen were finding it hard to hunt down the militants in southern and eastern Ramadi as families had taken them into their homes.

“We cannot persuade the people to kick them out,” he said.

***

The trend began in December 2011, just days after the departure of U.S. troops, when security forces raided the compound of Vice President Tariq al Hashemi. Hashemi was able to flee but several of his bodyguards were arrested and based on their testimony, allegedly extracted under torture, he was convicted in absentia of various terrorist offenses and sentenced to death.

A year later Maliki’s forces raided the home of Raffi el-Essawi, a former finance minister who barely managed to elude arrest.

Now it is the turn of Ahmed al-Alwani, a prominent member of Parliament who was arrested at his home a few days ago after a two-hour gun battle between his bodyguards and security forces that left his brother and five guards dead.

If Maliki wants to know why al-Qaeda in Iraq is suddenly resurgent, and why violence is returning to 2008 and even 2007 levels, all he need do is look at this trend. Sunnis certainly do. Many prominent leaders of the Anbar Awakening, who allied with American and Iraqi forces in 2007-2008 to fight al-Qaeda in Iraq, have now made common cause with AQI because of what they see–with some justification–as a campaign of persecution directed against them by Maliki and the militant Shiites who surround him.

***

Politics are at the root of some of the above – historical divisions in the Iraqi government have deepened during 2013. And not just between Sunni Muslim and Shiite Muslim politicians, but also within each group’s ranks. It is no longer possible to predict who will support who in any decision making power struggle. Whether Shiite or Sunni, each individual group seems primarily focussed on its own special interests. Only Iraq’s Kurds, nationalistic in their outlook rather than sectarian, seem to have been able to close ranks…

Many have blamed the resurgence of Al Qaeda in Iraq on more than Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki’s divisive tactics and power mongering. It can also be blamed on the fact that the Sunni Muslim group is stronger, operating with military precision and Mafia-esque cunning, just over the border from Iraqi provinces like Anbar. The past year has seen months-long anti-government protests by Sunni Muslim locals in Anbar – combine these with conservative tribal politics, thoughtless military intervention by the Shiite Muslim-led Iraqi government and Sunni Muslim extremists’ ability to easily come back and forth over the porous Iraqi-Syrian border, then the result is what is happening in Anbar this week.

***

Fallujah has fallen, and the same scenario is about to happen in the even-larger city of Ramadi.

It shouldn’t be such a surprise the place my friends fought for is falling back into civil war. I shouldn’t be surprised when the same thing happens in Afghanistan. But it still is, because I don’t want it to happen…

I’ll never know why they died. It wasn’t to stop the “mushroom cloud” or to defend the nation after 9/11. It sure wasn’t for freedom, democracy, apple pie, or mom and dad back home.

The only reason they died was for the man or woman beside them. They died for their friends.

I’m just not satisfied with that.

***

***

Via RCP.


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Kittens!

KOOLAID2 on January 4, 2014 at 8:33 PM

Not Twerp

annoyinglittletwerp on January 4, 2014 at 8:34 PM

Al Qaeda

…on the run!
Headlines in todays NYT’s?

KOOLAID2 on January 4, 2014 at 8:34 PM

President Choom and his administration don’t have a foreign policy. They’re a bunch of community activists trying to act like they know what they’re doing, but failing miserably. No one else is real to them; they just don’t care. As long as he and his family can take their incredibly expensive vacations on the taxpayer’s dime, they’ll be happy.

RoadRunner on January 4, 2014 at 8:35 PM

main page picture= Obama’s boys(boos)

Murphy9 on January 4, 2014 at 8:35 PM

Al Qaeda didn’t take Falluja; it was an Internet video. Just ask the NY Slimes.

RoadRunner on January 4, 2014 at 8:37 PM

We should take the oil fields and refineries now, before AQ does.

ThePrez on January 4, 2014 at 8:40 PM

But, but, but, Bammy went snorkeling in and stuff.

trs on January 4, 2014 at 8:42 PM

Who was the blonde highschool kid answering questions at the press conference?

workingclass artist on January 4, 2014 at 8:43 PM

Evening all

I’ve been so angry since yesterday when this broke. Our “leaders” have forgotten what war is and how to wage it to win. The ROE and pc stupity makes me see red. My heart is breaking for our lost military and their families.

CoffeeLover on January 4, 2014 at 8:45 PM

The real problem with Obama is that he does not seem to be swayed by evidence. On anything. Three more years…

gh on January 4, 2014 at 8:45 PM

The real problem with Obama is that he does not seem to be swayed by evidence. On anything. Three more years…

gh on January 4, 2014 at 8:45 PM

…the world will truly be phucked up…by then… and we will have to open our borders…even more!

KOOLAID2 on January 4, 2014 at 8:47 PM

workingclass artist on January 4, 2014 at 8:43 PM

MARIE HARF, STATE DEPARTMENT

CoffeeLover on January 4, 2014 at 8:49 PM

Meanwhile Barky was partying with Jay-Z in Vegas with Brian Williams in Hawaii….

viking01 on January 4, 2014 at 8:49 PM

KOOLAID2 on January 4, 2014 at 8:47 PM

Honestly, I shudder. I’m amazed I got through since ’07 when I started reading and researching this guy and his cronies.

CoffeeLover on January 4, 2014 at 8:50 PM

KOOLAID2 on January 4, 2014 at 8:47 PM

The world ignores Obama. The US will be truly phucked up. This will be bad here in Canada because our economy is heavily dependent on US trade. Harper seems to be slowly waking up to this. I hope he manages to stay in office for a while longer.

gh on January 4, 2014 at 8:51 PM

What Obama needs to do is fly to Iraq and make one of his famous speeches to the people….

I mean…it’s perfectly safe there since The One declared victory…

Oh wait….

Electrongod on January 4, 2014 at 8:53 PM

Meanwhile Barky was partying with Jay-Z in Vegas with Brian Williams in Hawaii….

viking01 on January 4, 2014 at 8:49 PM

Dude, that sounds…. gay.

Lanceman on January 4, 2014 at 8:54 PM

Shouldn’t that be….

MARIE “It’s like, totally far-out, gag me with a spoon, valley-girl” HARF, of the STATE DEPARTMENT?

viking01 on January 4, 2014 at 8:54 PM

Sorry. You said partying with, not playing with.

Where my glasses at?

Lanceman on January 4, 2014 at 8:55 PM

Dude, that sounds…. gay.

Lanceman on January 4, 2014 at 8:54 PM

Apparently Moochie and Reggie Love are said to be “mmm-mmm-mmm-kay” with it…

viking01 on January 4, 2014 at 8:56 PM

Nobel Peace Prize.

davidk on January 4, 2014 at 8:57 PM

This surprises anyone?

As we were going into Iraq I was saying if we really wanted a democratic republic there, we would have to have three of them.

“Diversity” and democracy do not mix. Not Big Diversity like they have in Iraq. It is like burying your food in salt. A little bit would be good. A lot tastes like poison and kills you.

The Sunnis hate the Kurds and they both hate the Shiites. Since most Iraqis are Shiites, under “democracy” Iraq was destined to become a satellite of Iran with constant fighting between the Sunnis and the Shiites.

The tribal Sunnis generally hate al Qaeda. That is why the Surge worked. We rearmed the Sunnis to fight al Qaeda. But given a choice between standing with al Qaeda or the Shiites, they feel they have no choice.

If our elites were not fools, our policy would have reflected that obvious reality.

fadetogray on January 4, 2014 at 8:58 PM

Once Obamacare really gets rolling and you are treated by technicians reading off of flowcharts instead of having a Dr. working with you for the best outcome, it won’t matter. The mobility that comes from having a discretionary budget will be gone. The malaise that will permeate the health care centers will make cynics out of those who are forced to work within the system. America is about to turn inward as it spirals out of relevancy in the world. The hyenas and jackals know this and are planning diligently. Hope and change?

Murphy9 on January 4, 2014 at 9:00 PM

Anybody checked Youtube…?

d1carter on January 4, 2014 at 9:01 PM

Five years or so ago on LGF, I said that The One and his minions were pining for a Saigon-style “last helicopter out” ending in Afghanistan, because their hatred for this country and its military was far stronger than their ability, or desire, to look at anything in terms of what the Red Army used to call “objective conditions”.

Simply put, they were and are entranced by a dream of a mystical, enlightened East triumphing over the evil, materialistic West. And by their desire to harm America in any way they can.

This generation wants their own “Triumph of Enlightened Proletarian Forces”- just like Vietnam.

Just as Ted Kennedy and his ilk (including JFKook) celebrated as Hueys were being dumped off carrier decks in 1975, this bunch will pop corks on champagne (that quintessential “We’re Better Than You” tipple) when the equivalent happens in Iraq and Afghanistan. And then they’ll get on with their Great Work of figuring out how to destroy Israel, and then us, once and for all.

And don’t be surprised when they deny that there are massacres in the newly “liberated areas”, or simply don’t care.

They didn’t give a flying f**k about Cambodia, either.

clear ether

eon

eon on January 4, 2014 at 9:08 PM

Big surprise! … This is exactly what barky and his junta wanted, though much blame goes ont hat idiot Petraeus, who thought that renting arabs was such a great coup. What a bunch of morons and America-haters.

Fallujah should have been reduced to dust the day those contractors were killed and hung from the bridge, and it should NEVER have been rebuilt in any way. This idiocy of thinking that we are responsible to rebuild enemy lands that we are forced to destroy is nothing short of idiocy. Sure, we had success with this strategy in Japan and germany, but we took total control and reacculturated them. We didn’t just rebuild and then let them get right back to the same sh!t they were doing that forced us to go in there, in the first place. Sometimes, in war, you have to destroy and enemy and leave them destroyed – even salt the fields. WIth arabs, this is how it is. Someday the West will learn (not that we have a Westerner in the White House … but that’s a whole other story).

Meanwhile, under Barky’s anti-American command, we’ve had tons more casualties in Afghanistan, too, while giving everything there back, also. But you would never know it from MSM reports. By the MSM’s tales, one would think that no Americans died in Afghanistan after Bush left office. Even all those SEALs being killed in that idiotic copter disaster (which should have raised tons of questions, in and of itself) was nothing but a one day story for the MSM and Barky’s junta.

And then there’s the illegal war in Libya and the whole Benghazi disaster …

Sheesh.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 4, 2014 at 9:11 PM

Five years or so ago on LGF, I said that The One and his minions were pining for a Saigon-style “last helicopter out” ending in Afghanistan
eon on January 4, 2014 at 9:08 PM

Last I read, teh won is planning 10 more years in Afghanistan.

gh on January 4, 2014 at 9:12 PM

“Maybe the Republicans can jump in and help Obama instead of complaining…” – nonpartisan…

Electrongod on January 4, 2014 at 9:14 PM

Electrongod on January 4, 2014 at 9:14 PM

Hi EG….waving!!!

now that line made me a little sick in mouth. ugh

CoffeeLover on January 4, 2014 at 9:20 PM

O/T Re Israeli-”Palestinian” peace talks, watch the body language and facial mannerisms of John Kerry while Netanyahu speaks. PM Netanyahu is a genuine statesman committed to the security of his people; he is not a saber rattler. Kerry and Obysmal stand to learn a lot from a man of Netanyahu’s caliber.

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-TV/2014/01/04/Netanyahu-Lectures-Thumb-Twiddling-Kerry-On-Unapologetic-Palestinian-Terror-Tactics

onlineanalyst on January 4, 2014 at 9:22 PM

Well, at least the world now loves America with Obama as President!

RJL on January 4, 2014 at 9:23 PM

“Maybe the Republicans can jump in and help Obama instead of complaining…” – nonpartisan…

Electrongod on January 4, 2014 at 9:14 PM

…was surprised to see livefreeorgan on the QOTD last night…don’t think the trolls will be here tonight…talking about Arab Spring!

KOOLAID2 on January 4, 2014 at 9:27 PM

Thank you, AP. Was wondering why this was not getting attention.

This is now the second time the ME has been abandoned by a US president. I doubt there will ever be a third time and this has devastated any hopes at any kind of useful future “diplomacy”.

kim roy on January 4, 2014 at 9:29 PM

Good luck to both sides.

VorDaj on January 4, 2014 at 9:30 PM

It’s certainly reassuring to realize Joe Biden is the “smart one” of the O’Barky Administration.

viking01 on January 4, 2014 at 9:34 PM

That war is yet flagrant; nor can it cease but by the extinction of that imposture, which has been permitted by Providence to prolong the degeneracy of man. While the merciless and dissolute dogmas of the false prophet shall furnish motives to human action, there can never be peace upon earth, and good will towards men. The hand of Ishmael will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him. It is, indeed, amongst the mysterious dealings of God, that this delusion should have been suffered for so many ages, and during so many generations of human kind, to prevail over the doctrines of the meek and peaceful and benevolent Jesus. (John Quincy Adams)

VorDaj on January 4, 2014 at 9:38 PM

I weep for the brave dead U.S. Marines that took Fallujah. That was an epic battle, epic Win for them. All gone to waste, thanks to The One Who Should Be Impeached.

Who is John Galt on January 4, 2014 at 9:41 PM

ubama’s ME policy is very simple.

texacalirose on January 4, 2014 at 9:41 PM

But, Al Qaeda is the good guys, according to John McCain and John McCain knows who the “good guys are.” After all, the Senile Senator posed with kidnappers last year.

bw222 on January 4, 2014 at 9:41 PM

Last I read, teh won is planning 10 more years in Afghanistan.

gh on January 4, 2014 at 9:12 PM

And you believe him when he says that?

Mr. “All Promises Come With A Free, Built-In Expiration Date”? Which is generally five minutes before he makes one.

When he said that, I thought, “before the summer of ’14″. Judging by how much is being moved out right now, and how much is just being abandoned in place, our forces may already be below combat-effective levels.

The One lies. Whatever he says, the opposite is more probably true.

cheers

eon

eon on January 4, 2014 at 9:43 PM

The world is SOO much better below the surface.
Dang, some days one just wants to cry merm tears and heal it all.
Sniff.

pambi on January 4, 2014 at 9:44 PM

It’s certainly reassuring to realize Joe Biden is the “smart one” of the O’Barky Administration.

viking01 on January 4, 2014 at 9:34 PM

Yes, he was clearly the best choice among the Democrats running in 2008, which shows how deranged and incompetent and America blaming that Party has become. Mike Gravel was their second best choice, and now he’s warning about an imminent alien invasion. Space aliens.

fadetogray on January 4, 2014 at 9:46 PM

But, Al Qaeda is the good guys, according to John McCain and John McCain knows who the “good guys are.” After all, the Senile Senator posed with kidnappers last year.

bw222 on January 4, 2014 at 9:41 PM

And John McCain has attained and has created for himself … serenity, and it is only his insanity that is keeping him alive in his senility.

RasThavas on January 4, 2014 at 9:46 PM

weep for the brave dead U.S. Marines that took Fallujah. That was an epic battle, epic Win for them. All gone to waste, thanks to The One Who Should Be Impeached.

Who is John Galt on January 4, 2014 at 9:41 PM

“The war in Iraq has meant the death of more than 4,400 U.S. troops and come at a cost of more than $700 billion. Asked in a briefing following Mr. Obama’s remarks if it was worth it, Antony Blinken, National Security Adviser to Vice President Joe Biden, said, “history is going to have to judge.”

And history will be the judge….

Thanks Obama…

for nuttin’

Electrongod on January 4, 2014 at 9:51 PM

eon on January 4, 2014 at 9:43 PM

He will be out of office long before 2024.

He’s already done the last helicopter out of iraq though. It just seemed to me your prediction was slightly off …

gh on January 4, 2014 at 9:51 PM

The blood of every brave man and woman who served this country in Iraq and Afghanistan is on the hands of Barack Hussein Obama for his handling of the aftermath. Their lives and accomplishments, no more important to him than piss in the dust. I pray that a special place in Hell awaits his sorry soul and, specifically, that the Heavenly Father make an Obama exception to Forgiveness.

TXUS on January 4, 2014 at 9:54 PM

It shouldn’t be such a surprise the place my friends fought for is falling back into civil war. I shouldn’t be surprised when the same thing happens in Afghanistan. But it still is, because I don’t want it to happen…

While the merciless and dissolute dogmas of the false prophet shall furnish motives to human action, there can never be peace upon earth, and good will towards men. The hand of Ishmael will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him. (John Quincy Adams)

I’ll never know why they died. It wasn’t to stop the “mushroom cloud” or to defend the nation after 9/11. It sure wasn’t for freedom, democracy, apple pie, or mom and dad back home.

They died for Muslim outreach, aka Islamic Hearts and Minds, aka Petraeus COIN, aka Trillion Dollar Bridge To Nowhere, aka Operation Enduring Insanity.

VorDaj on January 4, 2014 at 9:58 PM

TXUS on January 4, 2014 at 9:54 PM

that was so well said thanks!!!

CoffeeLover on January 4, 2014 at 9:58 PM

Black-clad Sunni militants of Al Qaeda destroyed the Falluja Police Headquarters and mayor’s office, planted their flag atop other government buildings and decreed the western Iraqi city to be their new independent state on Friday

Obama declares “peace in our time”.

whatcat on January 4, 2014 at 10:01 PM

the sectarian disputes left unresolved when U.S. troops withdrew

America should have taken that extra month to sort out 1400 years of Sunni/Shia hatred before they left. Now look what happened. Send Kerry to Karbala, his silver tongue may unite the two Islams so they can get on with their gods work.

BL@KBIRD on January 4, 2014 at 10:09 PM

While the merciless and dissolute dogmas of the false prophet shall furnish motives to human action, there can never be peace upon earth, and good will towards men. The hand of Ishmael will be against every man, and every man’s hand against him. (John Quincy Adams)

VorDaj on January 4, 2014 at 9:58 PM

One good quote deserves another,

Winston Churchill, The River War (1899):

How dreadful are the curses which Mohammedanism lays on its votaries! Besides the fanatical frenzy, which is as dangerous in a man as hydrophobia in a dog, there is this fearful fatalistic apathy. The effects are apparent in many countries.

Improvident habits, slovenly systems of agriculture, sluggish methods of commerce, and insecurity of property exist wherever the followers of the Prophet rule or live. A degraded sensualism deprives this life of its grace and refinement; the next of its dignity and sanctity.

The fact that in Mohammedan law every woman must belong to some man as his absolute property, either as a child, a wife, or a concubine, must delay the final extinction of slavery until the faith of Islam has ceased to be a great power among men. Individual Moslems may show splendid qualities. Thousands become the brave and loyal soldiers of the Queen; all know how to die; but the influence of the religion paralyses the social development of those who follow it.

No stronger retrograde force exists in the world. Far from being moribund, Mohammedanism is a militant and proselytizing faith. It has already spread throughout Central Africa, raising fearless warriors at every step; and were it not that Christianity is sheltered in the strong arms of science‹the science against which it had vainly struggled‹the civilisation of modern Europe might fall, as fell the civilisation of ancient Rome.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 4, 2014 at 10:13 PM

Just sickening!

williamg on January 4, 2014 at 10:20 PM

Exactly right…

… Obowma “Ended” the war instead of “Winning” the war.

And the media assisted him all the way…

… Does anyone remember the non-stop drum beat if even single death of an American in Iraq how it was echoed in the media?

Endlessly, non-stop, everyday! Not one single report of a “victory”, the embedded ‘journalist’ who videoed the soldier shooting the enemy who was lying in wait, remember that?

How many died to free these people for a good and just cause, and Obama and his fellow travelers flushed it all down the toilet for their political ideology…?

… Son of a bit%h, and the ‘media’ owns this.

Seven Percent Solution on January 4, 2014 at 10:29 PM

Obama forced our military to HELP Al ’9/11′ Qaeda take over their own country while providing them with weapons & allowing them to get their hands on Libya’s more than 2,000 shoulder launched SAMs. He HIRED an Al Qaeda-backed militia to protect Ambassador Steven & Americans…from Al Qaeda. He sacrificed Ambassador Stevens to them, betrayed and abandoned other Americans to die at their hands, and never brought any of them to justice after promising to do so. During that time he was running guns out of Benghazi to Al Qaeda& Islamic Extremists in Syria. He helped terrorists seize control in Egypt, & sought to punish our allies when they took back the government and sought to outlaw the terrorist groups in their country. Despite having made contact with Al Qeada before perpetrating the attack, Obama declared the Fort Hood terrorist attack to be nothing more than a case of workplace violence’. People should also remember he announced his intent to run for President from the living room of an un-repentant domestic terrorist who perpetrated bombings against 1st responders. Every loss Al Qaeda suffered during Bush’s Presidency was made back two-fold under Obama. Obama supporters / apologists who can t see this are idiots, as Obama continues to prove he is a threat to this nation.

easyt65 on January 4, 2014 at 10:34 PM

The fact is you can’t blame Obama for this. I blame Obama for a lot, but Iraq simply is not one of them. The idea that we would establish a democratic style government in a place with numerous divides based on religion and ethnicity, none of which we had clue one on how to solve, is the height of arrogance. We could have stayed there for a month more, we could have stayed there for another year, we could stayed there for another decade, or for the next fifty years and it would not have changed the outcome.

The reason for the failure are numerous, nut there is one glaring one that must be stated. We never attempted to separate religion from state in Iraq. Bush and Co. either realized that would be too hard, and would require our troops to become butchers, or they did not realize that Islam was the main obstacle to establishing a democratic style government there. Bush was caught up in “faith” at that time. I remember him calling Islam the religion of peace and I remember him telling everyone how wonderful all faiths are. It is just idiotic.

So I am glad Obama got us out of Iraq. Let him take blame for it, but the reality is it was foolish to think we could establish democracy in the Islamic world. Democracy in Japan and Germany, after WWII, was possible because we crushed them, firebombed their cities, and obliterated the state ideology. The Japanese and Germans also had vastly superior civilizations with people who were educated enough to grasp a democratic style government. The entire Islamic world combined could not build the battleship Yamato or a Tiger tank on their own today in the 21st century.

The same is going to happen in Afghanistan. At some point we are going to have pull out. It is not going to have a democratic style government, or one that will last long, and the best we can hope for is to put some strong man in and hope he can keep the Taliban from retaking the country.

We had that in Iraq, his name was Saddam.

This is life, it is time certain conservatives (aka Neo-Cons) stop living in ivory towers and get into the real world. We can solve some problems, we can help some allies, but we can’t solve all the problems on this earth. Next time the Muslim world cause us problems, just bomb them and declare victory. Stop trying to save them from themselves. Maybe one day they will learn on their own, like Europeans started doing 500 years ago, like everyone else has…

William Eaton on January 4, 2014 at 10:38 PM

More thoughts from powerlineblog and its commenters:
http://www.powerlineblog.com/archives/2014/01/terrorists-take-fallujah-obama-doesnt-care.php

One of the commenters suggested that an enterprising interviewer ask Obysmal to describe one of his foreign-policy successes. The result would/should be “dead air.”

Obysmal has done much to fan the flames of radical Islam. One has to ask what is his ulterior motive.

onlineanalyst on January 4, 2014 at 10:45 PM

William Eaton on January 4, 2014 at 10:38 PM

Would you please stop posting such stuff as this? Such a strong dose of reality is harshing my mellow. Thanks. :)

OldEnglish on January 4, 2014 at 11:05 PM

Hillary Clinton was Secretary of State when much of the decisionmaking that has left the Middle East and Afghanistan a mess was made. She should get blame as well but you can be sure that her army of media clowns following her parade with shovels will clean it all up for her in time that her skirts will be snowy white come election time in 2016.

KW64 on January 4, 2014 at 11:07 PM

This is life, it is time certain conservatives (aka Neo-Cons) stop living in ivory towers and get into the real world. We can solve some problems, we can help some allies, but we can’t solve all the problems on this earth. Next time the Muslim world cause us problems, just bomb them and declare victory. Stop trying to save them from themselves. Maybe one day they will learn on their own, like Europeans started doing 500 years ago, like everyone else has…

William Eaton on January 4, 2014 at 10:38 PM

Yes.

kim roy on January 4, 2014 at 11:16 PM

We had that in Iraq, his name was Saddam.

………….

William Eaton on January 4, 2014 at 10:38 PM

Your comment was generally quite good, but then you went and had to include that gross error, thereby putting a dark shadow of doubt over the rest of your thinking.

Saddam was our mortal enemy. He was a genuine psychopath. He had a serious psychological problem with recognizing boundaries. Good God, man, he tried to assassinate a former US President. Saddam sent assassins after Allawi (the guy would should have deemed President of Iraq as soon as Baghdad fell) in London. Borders meant nothing to him. The guy had no sense and no limits. He was exactly the kind of lunatic who would have used nukes if he had ever gotten them.

Saddam should have been taken out in 1991. He would have been if not for Colin Powell’s (he of the two votes for Obama) terrible advice.

Our error was not in removing Saddam. Our error was in trying to fix Iraq. The bleeding hearts will drown us in blood every time.

fadetogray on January 4, 2014 at 11:18 PM

Thank you, AP. Was wondering why this was not getting attention.

kim roy on January 4, 2014 at 9:29 PM

Temperatures are at historic lows, increasing energy demand, along with instability in the Middle East. But:

Oil Futures Slump on Concerns of High U.S. Supplies
Crude-Oil Inventories Seen Rising in January

Until this changes the Middle East probably won’t get much attention. I don’t think there are any oil wells or pipelines in Fallujah.

kcewa on January 4, 2014 at 11:23 PM

What should make people angry is that Iraq wasn’t even involved in the attack on 9/11, it was Saudi Arabia and Pakistan that were to blame, yet instead of retaliating against Saudi Arabia after 9/11 our government-of-cronies did them a huge favour and attacked Saudi Arabia’s enemy, Iraq. Not only has Saudi Arabia and Pakistan gotten away with 9/11 all these years, unrepentant and unreformed, we’ve also wasted thousands of American lives and trillions of dollars, first essentially handing Iraq over to Iran, but now even worse, Al Qaeda.

The American people were grossly mislead and misinformed by the ruling class in the wake of 9/11 and they used the war on terrorism, redirected it to serve their own interests, lobbyists and special interests, rather than the national security interests of the American people who were seeking revenge for the attack on 9/11.

A lot of Americans were so beguiled by ruling class propaganda, the corporate media, in the wake of 9/11 that they still have no idea how effed up the whole thing was. If the new media had been as prevalent then as it is today I don’t think they would have gotten away with it.

And as misdirected as the so-called “War on Terrorism” was, it served the interests of so many crooks and cronies back here in the US, growing not only the military-industrial complex, which I support to a responsible degree, but much worse, they’ve used it as a pretext to grow their fascist police and surveillance state. Not only does it increase the power of the government over us, but it feeds the crony pigs at the trough of government even while they’ve systematically destroyed our freedom and liberty. And for what? Now the US government, cronies in both parties, have sought to arm our Al Qaeda enemies in Libya and Syria, not to mention the Muslim Brotherhood. Our corrupt government even ran bombing missions for Al Qaeda in Libya, even while they use their new Al Qaeda allies as a pretext for fascism back here in the US. They tried to do the same thing in Syria but the American people were wise to them thanks to the free media.

America is upside down and has been for many years. “Our” government that is supposed to serve the people only serves its cronies, many of whom aren’t even American, and increasingly the cronies use “our” government’s monopoly on force to make the American people serve their cronies interests as well.

To all those who have recently woken up to the rigged con-game that is Washington DC, please be aware that the corruption is nothing new, it has been going on for a long time. It is destroying our freedom, liberty and prosperity, and the first casualties were truth, justice and the American way.

FloatingRock on January 4, 2014 at 11:25 PM

Chevy Volts. Everywhere. All I see, Volts

WryTrvllr on January 4, 2014 at 11:26 PM

The fact is you can’t blame Obama for this.

William Eaton on January 4, 2014 at 10:38 PM

We can – and we Should. Watch us.

The Fact Is: The Condition of Everything Wrong In The World Today Is A Consequence of Obama’s actions or inaction – and is ONLY attributable to him because he and only he has been “the most powerful man in the world” for over 5 years.

Everything you said starting with the word “Bush”……..which you REALLY wanted to state by saying: “mmmBOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH!!”…..

…..was Wrong. He is no longer President – the condition that Everything is in now – BELONGS to Obama.

Your post is actually MORE than 100% Wrong.

williamg on January 4, 2014 at 11:27 PM

Oh – One More Thing:

SAINTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

williamg on January 4, 2014 at 11:28 PM

Own it, libs. You demanded this; you bought it; chew it nice and slow, savor ever moment.

You own it. Be proud of your work.

Midas on January 4, 2014 at 11:30 PM

What should make people angry is that Iraq wasn’t even involved in the attack on 9/11, it was Saudi Arabia and Pakistan that were to blame
FloatingRock on January 4, 2014 at 11:25 PM

The invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. It had to do with the danger that Saddam’s regime represented to our interests and our allies.

kcewa on January 4, 2014 at 11:33 PM

Own it, libs. You demanded this; you bought it; chew it nice and slow, savor ever moment.

You own it. Be proud of your work.

Midas on January 4, 2014 at 11:30 PM

I remember when the last of the troops were leaving Iraq and Obama was taking credit, Rush Limbaugh pointed out that they were leaving Iraq according Bush’s schedule, not Obama’s, so it was Bush who deserved credit if any was due.

FloatingRock on January 4, 2014 at 11:36 PM

Oh – One More Thing:

SAINTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

williamg on January 4, 2014 at 11:28 PM

Seahawks are getting ready…

kcewa on January 4, 2014 at 11:38 PM

Rush Limbaugh pointed out that they were leaving Iraq according Bush’s schedule, not Obama’s, so it was Bush who deserved credit if any was due.

FloatingRock on January 4, 2014 at 11:36 PM

Yes but Bush’s and Obama’s plan (at least publicly) was to leave a force there so we would have some leverage over how Malaki treated his opposition and to keep Iran out.

Obama failed in doing that. Whether by incompetence or design I don’t know.

kcewa on January 4, 2014 at 11:42 PM

The invasion of Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11. It had to do with the danger that Saddam’s regime represented to our interests and our allies.

kcewa on January 4, 2014 at 11:33 PM

You say that now but at the time most Americans thought it was about 9/11.

So you’re saying that Saddam was a bigger threat to the American people than those responsible for 9/11? Certainly not! As bad as he was, if Saddam were still around today I doubt Al Qaeda would have as much of a foothold in Iraq.

And regarding “our allies”, as your call them, you really aught to read this:
http://nypost.com/2013/12/15/inside-the-saudi-911-coverup/

FloatingRock on January 4, 2014 at 11:46 PM

William Eaton on January 4, 2014 at 10:38 PM

BINGO. Or in other words, you can’t shine $hit and that is what Islam is.

VorDaj on January 4, 2014 at 11:46 PM

FloatingRock on January 4, 2014 at 11:25 PM

Another BINGO.

VorDaj on January 4, 2014 at 11:49 PM

kcewa on January 4, 2014 at 11:42 PM

You know who’s responsible for Al Qaeda in Iraq? “Our ally” Saudi Arabia.

FloatingRock on January 4, 2014 at 11:56 PM

Keep a sharp eye on developments in Babylon.

Murphy9 on January 4, 2014 at 11:56 PM

You know who’s responsible for Al Qaeda in Iraq? “Our ally” Saudi Arabia.

FloatingRock on January 4, 2014 at 11:56 PM

If so it’s because we left and they had to protect their interests against Iran.

It’s ISIS BTW not Al Qaeda in Iraq. For today anyway :)

kcewa on January 5, 2014 at 12:05 AM

I remember when the last of the troops were leaving Iraq and Obama was taking credit, Rush Limbaugh pointed out that they were leaving Iraq according Bush’s schedule, not Obama’s, so it was Bush who deserved credit if any was due.

FloatingRock on January 4, 2014 at 11:36 PM

This is absolutely true. Obama had promised that he would have U.S. troops out in 16 months, but he only got them out per the schedule of the Bush/Maliki Status of Forces agreement. Now he could have renegotiated that agreement for an extension but the Iraqis were demanding that they be allowed to try American troops in Islamic courts as the price for the “high privilege” of staying. Who would approve of American troops being tried in Islamic courts? There were even reports that officials from the Pentagon, who would not likely have been going behind Obama’s back, tried to get the Iraqis to “soften” that demand but were unsuccessful.

VorDaj on January 5, 2014 at 12:09 AM

You know who’s responsible for Al Qaeda in Iraq? “Our ally” Saudi Arabia.

FloatingRock on January 4, 2014 at 11:56 PM

They’re supporting their fellow Sunnis.

VorDaj on January 5, 2014 at 12:12 AM

I will never forgive George W. Bush for getting us into that mess.

Cleombrotus on January 5, 2014 at 12:12 AM

FloatingRock on January 4, 2014 at 11:46 PM

You say that now but at the time most Americans thought it was about 9/11.

The same Americans that elected Obama twice.

So you’re saying that Saddam was a bigger threat to the American people than those responsible for 9/11? Certainly not! As bad as he was, if Saddam were still around today I doubt Al Qaeda would have as much of a foothold in Iraq.

Yes i do think he was. He had control of a rich country and was rebuilding his military regime and restarting his WMD program with the help of Russia and other countries.

kcewa on January 5, 2014 at 12:13 AM

I remember when the last of the troops were leaving Iraq and Obama was taking credit, Rush Limbaugh pointed out that they were leaving Iraq according Bush’s schedule, not Obama’s, so it was Bush who deserved credit if any was due.

FloatingRock on January 4, 2014 at 11:36 PM

I remember years of Democrats and the media beating the drums lamenting that we were there at all, that we had lost the war, we had to leave, Bush was a war criminal, gnashing their teeth daily at every casualty – and *forcing* false timetables and scenarios to be entertained.

I remember them forcing unconscionable rules of engagement, and beating the public over the head with how our soldiers were, in fact, war criminals and murderers, and supporting the enemy with their mindless political gamesmanship.

Sorry – I remember watching Dems work *for* this outcome for *years*.

They own it.

Midas on January 5, 2014 at 12:20 AM

where do I begin with you pikers? where?

SparkPlug on January 5, 2014 at 12:27 AM

where do I begin with you pikers? where?

SparkPlug on January 5, 2014 at 12:27 AM

The start?

kcewa on January 5, 2014 at 12:28 AM

dear merm. your merm tears have magical healing powers. so if you cry save some for those who need it most like me.

SparkPlug on January 5, 2014 at 12:29 AM

Democrats were Bush’s accomplices in going into Iraq.

“Without question, we need to disarm Saddam Hussein. He is a brutal, murderous dictator, leading an oppressive regime … He presents a particularly grievous threat because he is so consistently prone to miscalculation … And now he is miscalculating America’s response to his continued deceit and his consistent grasp for weapons of mass destruction … So the threat of Saddam Hussein with weapons of mass destruction is real…”
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Jan. 23. 2003

“I will be voting to give the President of the United States the authority to use force — if necessary — to disarm Saddam Hussein because I believe that a deadly arsenal of weapons of mass destruction in his hands is a real and grave threat to our security.”
Sen. John F. Kerry (D, MA), Oct. 9, 2002

“One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line.”
President Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

“If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq’s weapons of mass destruction program.”
President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

“We must stop Saddam from ever again jeopardizing the stability and security of his neighbors with weapons of mass destruction.”
– Madeline Albright, Feb 1, 1998

“He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983.”
– Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

“Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process.”
Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

“Hussein has … chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies.”
– Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

“We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country.”
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

“Iraq’s search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power.”
Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

“We have known for many years that Saddam Hussein is seeking and developing weapons of mass destruction.”
Sen. Ted Kennedy (D, MA), Sept. 27, 2002

“In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.”
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

VorDaj on January 5, 2014 at 12:30 AM

how am I supposed to debate you people when my brain is a powerful machine with a 2 horse power motor?

SparkPlug on January 5, 2014 at 12:31 AM

I will never forgive George W. Bush for getting us into that mess.

Cleombrotus on January 5, 2014 at 12:12 AM

Interesting; lots of names you neglected of high profile politicians who eagerly lobbied for and voted to get us into that mess. They don’t bother you, eh? Any particular reason?

Midas on January 5, 2014 at 12:32 AM

it also has a drive belt. that’s how the motor powers the brain part.

SparkPlug on January 5, 2014 at 12:37 AM

What did we get out of this war, exactly? What about the one in Afghanistan? Oh, ObamaCare, that’s right.

Punchenko on January 5, 2014 at 12:46 AM

I will never forgive George W. Bush for getting us into that mess.

Cleombrotus on January 5, 2014 at 12:12 AM

The image of Dubya embracing — rather lovingly, I should add — Barry at the inauguration is forever seared in my memory. That image and of course the taped comedy bit of Dubya looking for those darned WMD at the White House Correspondents Dinner.

Punchenko on January 5, 2014 at 12:49 AM

I think I’ll say a prayer for b9

SparkPlug on January 5, 2014 at 12:55 AM

Any particular reason?

Midas on January 5, 2014 at 12:32 AM

Oh, I’m outraged by others as well, in particular, (as you point out at 12:20) the duplicitous Dems and the corrupt media and its hypocrisy, but it was George W. who was the driving force behind this misguided adventure. He should have known that we couldn’t just waltz in there and remake that part of the world into a functioning democracy. It was just gross misunderstanding of basic geo-political realities.

Cleombrotus on January 5, 2014 at 12:57 AM

That image and of course the taped comedy bit of Dubya looking for those darned WMD at the White House Correspondents Dinner.

Punchenko on January 5, 2014 at 12:49 AM

Maybe they should have showed Hillary looking for them, biological as well as chemical, along with his missiles and his nuclear program, along with the al Qaeda he was giving sanctuary to.

“In the four years since the inspectors left, intelligence reports show that Saddam Hussein has worked to rebuild his chemical and biological weapons stock, his missile delivery capability, and his nuclear program. He has also given aid, comfort, and sanctuary to terrorists, including al Qaeda members. It is clear, however, that if left unchecked, Saddam Hussein will continue to increase his capacity to wage biological and chemical warfare, and will keep trying to develop nuclear weapons.”
Sen. Hillary Clinton (D, NY), Oct 10, 2002

VorDaj on January 5, 2014 at 12:57 AM

The image of Dubya embracing — rather lovingly, I should add — Barry at the inauguration is forever seared in my memory. That image and of course the taped comedy bit of Dubya looking for those darned WMD at the White House Correspondents Dinner.

Punchenko on January 5, 2014 at 12:49 AM

Those things weren’t important, and the messes in Iraq and Afghanistan weren’t just Bush’s doing. Our elites were on board with the whole idea of nation building.

Of all the things Bush did that I disliked, the one that disturbed me the most was his failure to pardon certain people at the end of his Presidency, especially his leaving Libby in the slammer.

That was completely inexcusable. I can’t even rationalize it as just being a poor judgment call. It was asinine.

fadetogray on January 5, 2014 at 12:58 AM

You say that now but at the time most Americans thought it was about 9/11.

FloatingRock on January 4, 2014 at 11:46 PM

Uh … no. Only idiots thought it was “about” 9/11.

That is not to say that 9/11 didn’t have a connection. It certainly did. 9/11 showed the many fools that our threshold for threats from the arab/persian/muslim world was FAR TOO HIGH. After 9/11, all of those threats had to be reassessed in light of the clear reality (which anyone with a brain understood well before 9/11, but most people still didn’t – just as the idiot left denies it all right now). The other Hussein was such an untenable threat for a long time but in our fantasy view of the arab/persian/muslim world he was allowed to continue to remain in control of one of the most strategically sensitive areas of the world, even after he showed how little he cared for the resources there when he intentionally dumped tens of millions of barrels of oil into the Gulf and lit just about every oil well in Kuwait on fire (at which point any sensible person knew that he had to go).

This reassessment of standing threats and the risks they actually posed to us is what changed after 9/11 – as it certainly should, but it was NEVER argued by Bush or anyone around him that the other Hussein needed to be taken down because of the 9/11 attack. The other Hussein was one of the three main legs of the arab/persian/muslim threats to us – the secular arab nationalists (which went along with the Sunni and Shiite threats represented by Saudi Arabia and Iran).

Bush’s mistake was not dealing decisively with Iraq after they were quickly beaten and not leaving the Iraqis to run around in the desert stabbing each other in the azz (as arabs are wont to do) while we took the strategic assets and safeguarded our real interests – the whole world’s interests as oil is the lifeblood of the world. Bush’s next mistake was not to move forward and take out Iran. That was the whole point of the attack there. But, Bush wussed out and could never do more than just hang tough in Iraq, while not even allowing us to really fight and beat them into a pulp, as they well deserved.

But, even after those mistakes things were still salvageable … until Barky, and then he set out to undermine our fights on both fronts and to harm American interests in every way he could.

If you’re going to go on about neo-cons and whatever other things at least try to get the actual story correct instead of regurgitating leftist drivel about the Iraq invasion.

ThePrimordialOrderedPair on January 5, 2014 at 12:59 AM

Punchenko on January 5, 2014 at 12:49 AM

Yup, I cannot forgive not knowing what it is you are up against when you hold such an important position in the life of the country.

Cleombrotus on January 5, 2014 at 12:59 AM

He should have known that we couldn’t just waltz in there and remake that part of the world into a functioning democracy. It was just gross misunderstanding of basic geo-political realities.

Cleombrotus on January 5, 2014 at 12:57 AM

He didn’t start out that way but Petraeus (and Condi Rice) talked him into the Islamic Nation Building crap.

VorDaj on January 5, 2014 at 1:00 AM

Good evening..:)

Dire Straits on January 5, 2014 at 1:01 AM

He didn’t start out that way but Petraeus (and Condi Rice) talked him into the Islamic Nation Building crap.

VorDaj on January 5, 2014 at 1:00 AM

That’s small comfort.

Cleombrotus on January 5, 2014 at 1:06 AM

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