The incredible, shrinking New York

posted at 5:31 pm on December 28, 2013 by Jazz Shaw

Changes are coming to the Empire State, and not the kind that Governor Cuomo would like to see. The shift in question is the state’s population relative to the rest of the nation. From the early days of the Union, New York was the most populous state in the US, making it a political powerhouse as well as an economic one. That all began to change in the second half of the 20th century. New York was overtaken in population by California in the 1970 census. In 2000 we were shoved into third place by Texas. And now, if current projections hold, New York will be out of the top three entirely, pushed out by Florida.

New York, whose status as the most populous state has long been ceded, will soon fall behind Florida into fourth place, a long-anticipated drop that is rife with symbolism and that could carry potentially serious economic consequences in coming years.

When the Census Bureau releases its latest population estimates on Monday, demographers expect that Florida and New York will be narrowly separated — perhaps by as little as a few thousand people — and that if Florida does not pass New York this time, it almost certainly will do so in 2014.

To clarify, New York is not actually decreasing in population… the state is simply growing more slowly than many others, particularly Florida. They cite a variety of factors, one of which being the drastic loss of manufacturing jobs in upstate which have been too great to overcome the modest population increase in the Big Apple. But there’s far more to it than that. Doug has a few theories over at Outside the Beltway.

Additionally, notwithstanding the tax benefits that Cuomo is offering businesses who meet certain conditions, there are plenty of other economic reasons why moving to New York isn’t going to be appealing either to businesses or individuals. Tax rates for individuals are far higher in New York than they are in Florida, for example, even in places where the upstate areas, where the cost of living is far lower than the areas in and around New York City. Employers may find it hard to recruit the right kind of people for the jobs they need even though Governor Cuomo’s program seems to be based around trying to get businesses to move to areas close to locations of campuses of the State University of New York, obviously on the theory that these schools would provide a good recruitment class for high-tech industries most especially. Finally, of course, there’s the question of just how much they can trust that future state legislatures or Governor’s won’t find it necessary to take away those tax breaks that are supposed to last ten years, or require businesses to certain regulations in order to continue receiving them. When faced with those issues on one side of the ledger, and the possibility of starting a business in a state like Florida that has a long history of favorable tax rates and a political culture that makes it unlikely that there will be massive tax increases in the near future, it’s easy to see why businesses might be skeptical about making the long trek to Rochester or Buffalo.

Doug also cites the weather, as does the previous New York Times article. Personally, while many people find the climate in the South appealing, I think it’s far from enough to cause this sort of shift. The state government wrings its hands over the loss of jobs, but continues to keep a moratorium on fracking, which has benefited our neighbors in Pennsylvania greatly. Stimulus plans to attract business such as the ones Doug describes sound great on paper, but do nothing to address the hoards of businesses who have already left one of the unfriendliest tax climates in the nation. Nanny state regulations make New York one of the least free in the nation and many upstate folks have simply tired of it.

The punishment for these policies will not be imposed by Washington or outside think tanks. It’s taking place before our eyes, and as people leave, the welfare rolls and unemployment lines swell and our congressional representation in Congress continues to shrink. (We lost two seats after the 2010 census and will likely lose at least that many more in 2020.) New York is taxing and regulating itself into a larger version of Detroit. The process is slowed because of the constant influx of wealth to Wall Street, but that’s not enough to staunch the bleeding, and the trend continues downward.

UPDATE: (Jazz) Changed “populace” to “populous” in the 1st paragraph. Thanks as usual to our army of free editors. :-)


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Comment pages: 1 2

Just like with the excuse for the employment rate. People are simply retiring./sarc

CWchangedhisNicagain on December 28, 2013 at 5:33 PM

Have you seen those commercials for the “tax-free” zones? If a business comes to NY State they have 10 years tax-free. In 10 years plus 1 day they’ll be in New Soviet State.
Who wants to be here anymore?

vityas on December 28, 2013 at 5:40 PM

I’d rather live in North Dakota than New York. Of course, I would rather live in any state than New York with the possible exception of New Jersey.

VorDaj on December 28, 2013 at 5:42 PM

Hopefully you’ll soon be able to count me as a former New York state resident. Have the PA Trooper exam coming up soon, and with any luck they’ll be looking for a former Active Duty Marine to help keep the peace. I’d rather be in my wife’s home state if it means less liberal bullcrap and taking the 2nd amendment seriously. Besides, I don’t want to see my kids grow up and move away due to lack of opportunity like my parents have to.

Living4Him5534 on December 28, 2013 at 5:46 PM

I grew up on Long Island, where I could not help but notice (20 yrs ago – I moved too) middle class families have been moving South to flee the crushing taxes and regs. I miss the Pizza, not the BS.

toliver on December 28, 2013 at 5:47 PM

Living4Him ….Good luck.

CWchangedhisNicagain on December 28, 2013 at 5:48 PM

I am an active member of the New York Exile community. I look forward to the day I may return to my home. I thank the people of Alabama for giving me refuge.

TAARP on December 28, 2013 at 5:48 PM

“The process is slowed because of the constant influx of wealth to Wall Street….”

I’m not at all sure that the inflated dollars being pumped into Wall Street can be called “wealth.”

PersonFromPorlock on December 28, 2013 at 5:49 PM

“…most populace state”

You have a typo there. It should be “populous”

Spassvogel on December 28, 2013 at 5:51 PM

Jazz, in the first paragraph, I suspect you mean “populous” rather than “populace”.

stoutcat on December 28, 2013 at 5:52 PM

Living4Him5534 on December 28, 2013 at 5:46 PM

Best of luck. Remember that if you stop a silver 2002 Ford Ranger with a dingy (25+ year) cap.

I loved growing up & going to college in the Hudson Valley. I could tolerate somewhat higher taxes, but I will not go back while NY has its draconian gun laws.

rbj on December 28, 2013 at 5:59 PM

Have you seen those commercials for the “tax-free” zones? If a business comes to NY State they have 10 years tax-free. In 10 years plus 1 day they’ll be in New Soviet State.
Who wants to be here anymore?

vityas on December 28, 2013 at 5:40 PM

Yeah, they play those here in The People’s Republic of Illinois. Ironic: One dark blue, Progressive Utopia (NY) pretending to be conservative in order to poach small businesses from another dark blue, Progressive Utopia (IL). I’d laugh if it weren’t so sad.

Forward!

visions on December 28, 2013 at 6:00 PM

First, New York has to stop being stupid.
They just completed their effort to send all the gun jobs out of state.
Even the financial services folks now have one foot in New York and multiple feet spanning New Jersey to the Carolina’s.

J_Crater on December 28, 2013 at 6:02 PM

Doug also cites the weather, as does the previous New York Times article. Personally, while many people find the climate in the South appealing, I think it’s far from enough to cause this sort of shift.

That sort of screws the global warming theories, huh?

You’d think everyone would be flocking to New York to escape the brutal heat throughout the south due to the global warming.

LOL

ButterflyDragon on December 28, 2013 at 6:02 PM

Nanny state regulations make New York one of the least free in the nation and many upstate folks have simply tired of it.

Count Long Island in there too. This Long Islander is GONE…two weeks and I am going to be a resident of the State of Texas. I`ve had enough of the malaise and flat/declining business climate. And when the poo hits the fan, being on an Island with the only way off (other than boat) is smack dab thru one of the epicenters of disharmony, Manhattan…that doesn’t really appeal to me.

Its a shame really, there are tons of good folk here. I almost feel like I`m bailing ship here but person has to do what a person has to do.

Nope, no more NY Conservative for me, anyone know how to change their screen name?

NY Conservative on December 28, 2013 at 6:04 PM

Meanwhile, Texas grows.

/Suck it, New York

john1schn on December 28, 2013 at 6:04 PM

The populace is not so populous anymore.

VorDaj on December 28, 2013 at 6:09 PM

NY Conservative on December 28, 2013 at 6:04 PM

Hope you don’t suffer culture shock here!

So, in what part of God’s Country are y’all moving?

tru2tx on December 28, 2013 at 6:09 PM

tru2tx on December 28, 2013 at 6:09 PM

Hill Country, Kendall County. I`m looking forward to culture shock!

NY Conservative on December 28, 2013 at 6:14 PM

When we moved from Connecticut to Kentucky in April I had to get a small U-haul trailer to bring some stuff with us while we were waiting for our household goods shipment. I had to pay a $67 south bound premium for the trailer and I had to drive over 50 miles just to pick one up. Plus I was only allowed to keep it for 4 days or pay another $100 in rental fees. I had to go to three places before I could even get a trailer and I had to get a bigger size than I wanted.

I asked the guy why I had to pay all the extra $$ and he said plain and simple, more people are leaving New England than are moving in. They have to have special runs down south to pick up unused trailers and return them up north.

Johnnyreb on December 28, 2013 at 6:19 PM

Just wait for De Blasio’s new taxes to kick in, then watch the NYSE moguls move south. Charlotte’s second in banking, actually has an internet connection, and personal income taxes are being zeroed out by the governor. Y’all come south now, ya’hear!

Silvergoat on December 28, 2013 at 6:21 PM

White middle class is leaving. Blacks and immigrants increasing. It seems like a population increase of some sort, like California. California is loosing 200K whites a year and gaining 400K immigrants, most illegal. Both States double down on what drove out productive people in the first place, taxes, regulations, thought control, crime.

pat on December 28, 2013 at 6:30 PM

High property taxes in NY make moving elsewhere when one retires a very attractive option. My 1400 square foot house has a property tax bill of $11,000 per year. Your mortgage you can pay off, the property taxes never go away and keep rising with inflation if not more.

Jazz is right about the fracking moratorium. There is no doubt fracking is safe for everything but liberal politicians wanting donations and volunteers from the enviros; but that is enough to keep New Yorkers from prospering. Many of us still have to heat with expensive oil while the nearby Marcellus shale and a few dollars for pipelines could make a dramatic change in heating costs.

The governor of NY also wants to close our Indian Point nuclear power plants that provide 25% of the power to the NY metro region at a fraction of the cost of other sources. Think what 20 to 25% hikes in already high electric prices will do for competitiveness.

Getting approval to do anything in NY is tough (Think State Environmental Quality Review Act –SEQR). In other states, development agencies will walk a business through the process and you don’t have endless NIMBY litigation.

If we ever lose any GOP control in the NY Senate to provide governmental balance, this state will go the way of California and Detroit.

KW64 on December 28, 2013 at 6:32 PM

The fascinating social experiment continues, albeit not with the projected results.

The clash of projection and actuality is always brutal. Here endith the lesson.

Kraken on December 28, 2013 at 6:40 PM

Let us also note that Florida’s neighbor to the north, Georgia, has recently passed Michigan into eighth place. North Carolina will also jump over the Wolverine State soon. No surprise, huh?

radjah shelduck on December 28, 2013 at 6:41 PM

Land of the Orange, overtakes the Big Apple!!

canopfor on December 28, 2013 at 6:42 PM

Hill Country, Kendall County. I`m looking forward to culture shock!

NY Conservative on December 28, 2013 at 6:14 PM

Welcome! I am in Lubbock, just 350 miles NNW of you! :) :) :)

Theophile on December 28, 2013 at 6:45 PM

New Detroit ?????

jaywemm on December 28, 2013 at 6:52 PM

With luck, the movers out of NY will leave there democratic voting patterns in the Empire(less) state.

polarglen on December 28, 2013 at 6:52 PM

Comrade DeBlasio hasn’t even been sworn in yet.Let the Great White Flight begin!

jeffinsjvca on December 28, 2013 at 7:02 PM

With DeBlasio in NYC now, we will see exactly what happens when upstate and the county of Manhattan don’t agree on the spending for the rest of the state. We’ll see if they don’t vote republicans in come November. It depends on what kind of cash he is looking for.

Cuomo has placated his government unions, but they don’t trust him, and the state of NY is a giant upstate (Albany) employer. The NY State worker is the only person who does not pay taxes on his or her pension, but when others retire, eventually they have to get out of there. And still, a NYS pension is enough to live on just about anywhere where it is warmer than NY.

But rural NY -ers living on the farms, they have about as little in common with Manhattan-ites as the Duck Dynasty man, don’t forget, a lot of them in Western NY, voted for Carl for Governor.

So, taxes state wide, and the burden of NYC and taxation there can’t be fixed by giving NEWCOMERS a tax break. Nothing more unfair than that.

Fleuries on December 28, 2013 at 7:05 PM

It’s going to get A LOT WORSE once Comrade DeBlasio gets in office! Mass Exodus is what I’m thinking!

mountainaires on December 28, 2013 at 7:06 PM

I’m really glad I moved out of Florida. All those lib-turds moving into the neighborhood. Ugh.

mountainaires on December 28, 2013 at 7:07 PM

I love Texas. I really do.

Tom Servo on December 28, 2013 at 7:12 PM

NY deserves what it gets, they vote for it, no sympathy, ke sera sera. Fool people won’t take advantage of the Marcellus play, just want to know what “government will give me.”

RoyalFlush on December 28, 2013 at 7:17 PM

Awww, c’mon businesses. Come to New York! We have loads of great workers, as evidenced by the stellar 47% graduation rate in the Buffalo school district. Rochester is not far behind at 43%. So come to upstate New York, where your work force won’t be burdened with any of that pesky knowledge stuff. And as a bonus, if you send your own kids to public school, they might even graduate. OK, the odds are against it, but the teachers get free boob jobs, so at least those parent teacher conferences will be fun, amiright?!!

trubble on December 28, 2013 at 7:19 PM

Start spreading the news
I am leaving today
Don’t want to be a part of it
New York, New York

Snake Pliskin didn’t want to stay either.

banzaibob on December 28, 2013 at 7:44 PM

Hill Country, Kendall County. I`m looking forward to culture shock!

NY Conservative on December 28, 2013 at 6:14 PM

Welcome! I am in Lubbock, just 350 miles NNW of you! :) :) :)

Theophile on December 28, 2013 at 6:45 PM

NY Conservative: I’m also in Lubbock. Me and my husband escaped Chicago in April 2011. My son escaped IL in 2012.
The natives talk weird and the pizza sucks…but the freedom is freakin’ AWESOME!

annoyinglittletwerp on December 28, 2013 at 7:44 PM

We need a fancy scientific sounding term for voting with your feet.

tmitsss on December 28, 2013 at 7:46 PM

Got out of NY two years ago. Don’t miss it at all. I’ll put up with bad pizza, moron politicians, high taxes and gun regulations drove us out. So Andy take your tax free zones and shove them in your No sunshine zone.

stormridercx4 on December 28, 2013 at 7:59 PM

hey you get what you vote for …..
I love it …. I totally refuse to go to NY …. MiL keeps trying to get me
to go up there … (she lived in Long Island until she moved to Tampa.)
wants me to go up there and see Christmas up there … told her that
I will not go any were I can not defend myself at. so that leaves NY, CA, and
IL. out ….

conservative tarheel on December 28, 2013 at 8:02 PM

BUT the New Yorkers leave b/c of Democrat policies but still vote Democrat when they move to other states. Dems???? Wake up – it’s your party’s policies that are wrecking state after state after state.

MN J on December 28, 2013 at 8:05 PM

Other 49 States to New York: Drop Dead.”

I escaped Illinois (State Motto: “We’re Like New York, Only Less Popular and More Corruption”) four years ago, for the Southwest.
I miss the….um, well…
Nothing. Not. A thing.

orangemtl on December 28, 2013 at 8:08 PM

I left NY for CA years ago for job related reasons. That was enough to teach me the basics of dysfunctional and predatory state governments as well as just how phukin’ crazy liberals are! Then when I arrived in CA, I learned that same lesson in spades :-)

I now live in sunny AZ where the government is only marginally dysfunctional, where phuk’d up liberals hate not having a beach to regulate and most people are relatively sane….oh yeah, and the tax climate suits me just fine.

Now if we can only replace the two shit-head Senators we have with even marginally conservative Republicans, I would sleep a bit better at night.

powerpickle on December 28, 2013 at 8:10 PM

Hey New York! Don’t worry, The People’s Republik of Kalifornia is following your lead.

GarandFan on December 28, 2013 at 8:26 PM

Hill Country, Kendall County. I`m looking forward to culture shock!

NY Conservative on December 28, 2013 at 6:14 PM

Just remember: the Kendall County seat is pronounced like the name Bernie. Fredricksburg is a great little German town.

If you go to the Alamo in San Antone, remember, IT’S A SHRINE. Show some respect.

Kafir on December 28, 2013 at 8:28 PM

…Michigan used to be wealthy…populated…etc…a beautiful state…look what unions and demorats did to it!

KOOLAID2 on December 28, 2013 at 8:28 PM

“From the early days of the Union, New York was the most populous state in the US…” Nope. Virginia was in 1781 and for a good while thereafter.

Brize on December 28, 2013 at 8:32 PM

Young people who want to remain, or be, middle class, are moving to Texas and other western states where that’s still possible. Well-set-up retirees are moving to Florida’s gated retirement communities, where they’re safer, pay fewer, smaller taxes, and have access to all kinds of good-weather activities. Add that to the business-unfriendly taxation and “diversity quotas”, and New York will be Detroit in a couple of decades.

RebeccaH on December 28, 2013 at 8:32 PM

Hill Country, Kendall County. I`m looking forward to culture shock!

NY Conservative on December 28, 2013 at 6:14 PM

Just remember: the Kendall County seat is pronounced like the name Bernie. Fredricksburg is a great little German town.

If you go to the Alamo in San Antone, remember, IT’S A SHRINE. Show some respect.

Kafir on December 28, 2013 at 8:28 PM

And remember that the only folsk that refer to SA as ‘San Antone’ are TOURISTS.

annoyinglittletwerp on December 28, 2013 at 8:40 PM

NY Conservative
You will love Kendall County, great scenery, awesome Mexican food, super folks that will love you but think you talk funny, and passable public schools. Hope you love it. You won’t miss the pizza.

armygirl on December 28, 2013 at 8:41 PM

NY Conservative
I forgot that you will also enjoy great golf and football at all levels from high school up.

armygirl on December 28, 2013 at 8:47 PM

armygirl on December 28, 2013 at 8:41 PM

I’ve been in Lubbock almost 3 years. I miss Chicago eats-but not much else.

annoyinglittletwerp on December 28, 2013 at 8:53 PM

Doug also cites the weather, as does the previous New York Times article. Personally, while many people find the climate in the South appealing, I think it’s far from enough to cause this sort of shift.

Agreed. When it comes to severe weather it’s pretty benign. Snowstorms in upstate don’t bother the residents as much as they have equipment to move it and experience to drive in it. Around here, there has been close to 40 inches of snow this month and the schools haven’t closed once.

pt on December 28, 2013 at 8:56 PM

armygirl

on December 28, 2013 at 8:41 PM

I’ve been in Lubbock almost 3 years. I miss Chicago eats-but not much else.

annoyinglittletwerp on December 28, 2013 at 8:53 PM

I had to leave Kendall County for a job on the East Coast and pine for Texas every day. I miss the tastes of Texas so much. Funny how we miss the foods we grow up with.

armygirl on December 28, 2013 at 9:00 PM

Annoyinglittletwerp
My iPad didn’t do that quote very well. LOL

armygirl on December 28, 2013 at 9:01 PM

I have an idea! Let NYC elect a socialist mayor, that’s sure to get businesses to move.

Yeah, that’s the ticket.

WestTexasBirdDog on December 28, 2013 at 9:09 PM

Hey, I know! They can all move to Maryland!

(snort)

Galtian on December 28, 2013 at 9:12 PM

Welcome! I am in Lubbock, just 350 miles NNW of you! :) :) :)

Theophile on December 28, 2013 at 6:45 PM

God love ya right back!

AesopFan on December 28, 2013 at 9:13 PM

With luck, the movers out of NY will leave there democratic voting patterns in the Empire(less) state.

polarglen on December 28, 2013 at 6:52 PM

History shows they won’t though.

Midas on December 28, 2013 at 9:14 PM

LOL at red carpet being rolled out for NYers. But if you’re a conservative Californian refugee they don’t want your kind down South.

Christien on December 28, 2013 at 9:55 PM

I grew up in the finger lakes region. It’s beautiful and the people are great. I even like the weather. I’d move back despite the crushing taxes. But there are no jobs. So I’m in North Florida where you can get a good job if you can just spell ‘SQL’.

tlynch001 on December 28, 2013 at 10:09 PM

I’m actually a bit surprised. I thought Florida had overtaken New York some time ago.

jaime on December 28, 2013 at 10:16 PM

Left NY (Syracuse) in 1992. Moved to Tennessee. Love it here. Freedom!

tngmv on December 28, 2013 at 10:20 PM

What happens next? Only “Snake” Plissken knows.

Eff Cliffy on December 28, 2013 at 10:55 PM

LOL at red carpet being rolled out for NYers. But if you’re a conservative Californian refugee they don’t want your kind down South.

Christien on December 28, 2013 at 9:55 PM

Not true. We love our conservative CA escapees. PRC can keep the liberal ones.

john1schn on December 28, 2013 at 11:01 PM

NY Conservative
You will love Kendall County, great scenery, awesome Mexican food, super folks that will love you but think you talk funny, and passable public schools. Hope you love it. You won’t miss the pizza.

armygirl on December 28, 2013 at 8:41 PM

Be sure and try the Shiner Beer, too. Chile Rellenos can substitute quite nicely for pizza.

trigon on December 29, 2013 at 12:17 AM

Every liberal run, tax sucking, redistributing state in the country will eventually collapse. Then, the liberals who voted for liberals in their formally decent state will move to a conservative/moderate state and continue to vote for liberals until there isn’t a decent place left to live.

cajunpatriot on December 29, 2013 at 7:20 AM

Back in 2001, I moved from upstate ( UTICA AREA ) down to SOUTH TEXAS because I realized NY people were not going to stand with me to fight back against gun control ( repealing handgun registration schemes etc. ) and lower taxes as well as repealing the state income tax.

NOW you fools have even more gun bans, registration schemes and stagnant growth ever since I left. THIS IS WHY. People like me, moved.

You IDIOTS that remain in NY should vote with your feet and flee the gun ban state of America, keep more money and move South. Even if just to PA.

TX-96 on December 29, 2013 at 7:26 AM

My great fear is that many will move South but keep voting the same way. Don’t come down here and screw up what’s left of a free nation.

Big Orange on December 29, 2013 at 8:11 AM

Minnesota would be ok if they would just quit being stupid when they vote for democrats. I like it better when adults are in charge.

crosshugger on December 29, 2013 at 8:29 AM

RE: tlynch001 on December 28, 2013 at 10:09 PM

I am from Elmira and lived there happily for 40 years before moving to Connecticut (yeah, I know) for a good job that I still have more than 15 years later. Like many of the more rural counties in New York State, we always sent fiscal Conservatives to represent us in Albany, but their voice was always drowned out by the spend-happy Libs from the NYC and other Metro areas. Voting for Governor was (is) a losing battle, too. Tom Golisano would have been a terrific Governor, but now even he has justifiably moved to Florida to save on state taxes.

Elmira has TWO maximum security prisons, filled predominately with the “upstanding” citizens from NYC. To give you an idea how hopeless it is to change the politics of the State, the NY legislature voted to count the prisoners (who cannot even VOTE, BTW) in all of the state prisons as voters in their home counties, rather than where they now reside in prison. This seals the fix that the high-crime metro areas get greater representation, while the more conservative counties that house their criminals get less representation. Meanwhile, the families of the prisoners often move to the counties where their illustrious convicts are in prison, so they put an added burden on the entitlement structure.

I find it ironic and utterly laughable that the Spawn of Mario Cuomo is trying to reverse the massive exodus of good manufacturing jobs that occurred because of his father’s (and Hugh Carey’s) policies.

To get an idea of the political dichotomy of New York State, check out this map of the 2008 Presidential Election results, and don’t be too hard on all the residents of New York. There are millions of normal, liberty-minded New Yorkers – but they are vastly outnumbered by Leftists and are fighting a seemingly losing battle.

Logic on December 29, 2013 at 9:18 AM

“Other 49 States to New York: Drop Dead.”

I escaped Illinois (State Motto: “We’re Like New York, Only Less Popular and More Corruption”) four years ago, for the Southwest.
I miss the….um, well…
Nothing. Not. A thing.

orangemtl on December 28, 2013 at 8:08 PM

Heh. I remain in the State of ILL, where political corruption is the State Flower. The entire white population of the once-great south Cook County suburbs of Chicago has split and left…half for the Will County boom and half to Indiana. It leaves the south Cook area as a blighted mess of blacks, crime, and economic decay.

To my horror, my daughter married, gave us a grandson, and … bought a house in the area, albeit Will County. I can’t leave for Michigan or Indiana with my Grandson here. Will County, here we come. Ugh.

Jaibones on December 29, 2013 at 9:32 AM

People are not only leaving but (at least the productive ones)are not coming into New York. Korean baseball star turned down the Yankees for the Yankees for a deal (at least on paper) that was 10 million less. Actually, because Texas (unlike New York) has no state income tax, the deal is 5 million more!!!!

But wait until new mayor de Blasio takes over-a guy so corrupt he makes Al Capone look like Albert Schweitzer. It wasn’t until after the election that Blaz admitted that not only is he unqualified to control the city–but his own family as well–admitting that daughter Chiara is BOTH a full-blown alcoholic and drug addict. But the good news is that the type of people Blaz will attract to the city will keep Chiara well supplied!!!!! Further good news, socialist panderer di Blasio has proposed that New York observe a Muslim religious holiday. ALLAH SNACK BAR!!!!

MaiDee on December 29, 2013 at 9:33 AM

New York seems like two states to me: Vermont upstate, rural and bereft of worthwhile business other than fall colors tourism.

And Hawaii (especially Honolulu) in the decrepit city of New York, with ludicrous overcrowding and cost of living, crime, pollution, and government oppression. Both states suck.

Jaibones on December 29, 2013 at 9:36 AM

I left the People’s Republic of New York due to what happens with the tax rates economically: it kills jobs.

When your county has double-digit unemployment and wants a ‘special’ and ‘limited’ 1% sales tax raise due to the lack of revenue, everyone knew it was neither ‘special’ nor ‘limited’ to 10 years. That sealed the deal on jobs, job growth and insured a downward spiral of that county. It was old Rust Belt and the biggest deal was selling the old Bethlehem Steel Plant to Poland. The Soviets had given them old German equipment circa the 1930′s after WWII and it was ancient by the ’70s. Poland got an upgraded steel industry! New York State got a one time revenue gain and did NOTHING with it beyond pay-off cronies locally.

Old grain silos to service Great Lakes shipping? Dead due to the Welland Canal. Ditto ‘the waterfront’ which was ‘gentrified’ and looked awful. Light Rail Rapid Transit? Going from nowhere to nowhere, a White Elephant to make Leftists feel good. You couldn’t get a job without going through a crony Union… and my best prospect was working at a toxic waste dump. That is no joke, they had a great health care plan! The more they repeated that line, the more it told me about the company.

I love the culture of WNY and its people, plus the variety of culture, especially the restaurants. When you can find Chinese/Mexican food places that know how to deal with salsa and stir fry, you have got something going there. Unfortunately all that talent is locked up in the People’s Republic of New York. The place where smuggling firecrackers for kids to have on Independence Day is illegal. Where you cannot keep and bear arms unless you are a cop or go through years of paperwork… crime isn’t high because everyone is relatively impoverished and all the work that really counts is done under the table, outside of the view of the taxman.

I’ve seen how the Big Government society works: under the table for everything from medical visits to car repair to home building. The governments aren’t just crooked: they are bent. The State that wants to tax your internet connection as ‘entertainment’ will know no bounds when it comes to you, and I’m lucky to have gotten out before that lovely thing got put into place.

Imagine a place that has voted for the same Elite political class since the Erie Canal, the great bringer of funds that politicians wanted to spend and never change their spending habits even after the Canal died. That place is the People’s Republic of New York. And I do wish that the people of Upstate New York would get a petition together to sever their connection with NYC and become Upper York.

Heaven help you if you try to change it: you will sleep with the kielbasa.

ajacksonian on December 29, 2013 at 9:54 AM

annoyinglittletwerp on December 28, 2013 at 7:44 PM

Heh, yes I bet the pizza sucks, and coming from the Global Capitol of Pizza(sorry Chicago hee hee)I`m sure I`m in for some disappointment lol…BUT, theres nothing stopping me from perfecting the perfect Pie and forging my own economic path…well…money, money helps but one cannot say there is`nt VAST untapped potential.

Kafir on December 28, 2013 at 8:28 PM

Boerne is the town I`m headed to! And yeah, some pronunciations are not what you might think lol…Bexar Cty is another lol!

armygirl on December 28, 2013 at 8:41 PM

HA! I was just the other day discussing my accent with a very good friend who lives down there, told them I`ll prob get a lotta looks when folks first heah about life on Lawn Guylund.

It seems as if I`m not alone in my love for the Empire State, the election of DiBlasio has really helped firm up my thoughts that I am doing the right thing. While technically not withing his coming reign of powermisery, malaise and degradation the spillover will be felt in the surrounding areas, I say God help any sane person still left in Manhattan. Little Andy doesnt help the situation any either…that rotten apple fell right at the base of the rotten tree it was spawned from.

Thank you for the kind words folks, I`m looking forward to the move!

NY Conservative on December 29, 2013 at 9:56 AM

Jailbones you hit it on the head in your analogy. I spent a year (military duty) in Hawaii after returning from Southeast Asia. What a rat’s nest of crime, debauchery and drug addiction. It’s hard to believe- what with the fancy tourist hotels, landscaped palm trees and near perfect climate that such squalor can co- exist- but wander a few blocks in any direction and it looks like inner city anyplace with ugly hookers, sprawled out drunks, shabby buildings and the stench of old cooking oil–socialism’s gift to America.

MaiDee on December 29, 2013 at 10:02 AM

But GOOD NEWS New York, you don’t have to worry about being overtaken in population by the corrupt incompetent and soon-to-be bankrupt state of Illannoy. The IL population is dwindling cuz residents are fleeing like rats off of a sinking ship. Looking forward to gettin’ out myself.

stukinIL4now on December 29, 2013 at 10:22 AM

I moved out of New York, and out of the USA entirely, 3 years ago. Lack of job options in Upstate, and the better opportunities here in Japan (and most importantly, my lovely, wonderful bride) made it an easy decision to leave the state.

As a bonus, I don’t have to deal with snow anymore, so I also don’t miss the nasty winter weather. But now I do have to deal with Typhoons, possibly earthquakes and the live volcano next door.

DakRoland on December 29, 2013 at 10:30 AM

This ability to vote with your feet is a big reason the feds want to take over everything: schools, medical, unemployment, whatever. Then they have us all with no place to run, no place to hide.

As to upstate NY my SIL is trying to get her folks to leave. All that’s left in the town is meth heads and people on welfare.

PattyJ on December 29, 2013 at 12:19 PM

As long as we’re correcting your grammar, it’s “stanch” the bleeding, not “staunch.”

foxymike on December 29, 2013 at 12:22 PM

Agreed. When it comes to severe weather it’s pretty benign. Snowstorms in upstate don’t bother the residents as much as they have equipment to move it and experience to drive in it. Around here, there has been close to 40 inches of snow this month and the schools haven’t closed once.

pt on December 28, 2013 at 8:56 PM

That is usually true; but when I lived in the Buffalo area, the blizzards did get difficult. One time we got 85 inches of snow in 5 days and it was too high for my snowblower so I had to shovel my 90 foot driveway up over my head onto mounds about 10 feet tall alongside it. Not something I would care to do when I reach geezerdom.

KW64 on December 29, 2013 at 12:37 PM

New York sucks and has sucked for a long time.

Upstate is pretty but ruined too.

Got it.

Colorado is screwed too, don’t come here.

Meremortal on December 29, 2013 at 1:03 PM

How long before the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE) becomes the Lone Star Stock Exchange (LSSE)?
If they go to The Big-D, they’ll still have winter weather, but less humidity in the summer.

Another Drew on December 29, 2013 at 1:05 PM

A big issue is that many of the people moving To Texas or Florida don’t really understand that their voting record is what is causing the problems they are trying to escape. They then go to states with better living standards and then start voting against the very nature of the place they’ve gone too. Look at Texas and how it is turning blue, Florida too for that matter. I realize they aren’t blue, yet. But with clueless idiots moving in in droves, how long until they bring their acceptance of nanny state socialism and outrageous taxation into vogue?

KMC1 on December 29, 2013 at 2:06 PM

NY Conservative,
You will love Boerne and the surrounding area. I35 is no fun on most days. Maybe you will not have to deal with that traffic.
I send my Texas welcome also from the piney woods of East Texas. Be prepared. This is a BIG state if you want to see all the sites.

jazzuscounty on December 29, 2013 at 5:39 PM

jazzuscounty on December 29, 2013 at 5:39 PM

You know your from Texas if-you’re going on a multi-state road trip…and the longest part of the drive is just getting out of your own state.

annoyinglittletwerp on December 29, 2013 at 8:04 PM

You’re-not your. Long day.

annoyinglittletwerp on December 29, 2013 at 8:10 PM

…wander a few blocks in any direction and it looks like inner city anyplace with ugly hookers, sprawled out drunks, shabby buildings and the stench of old cooking oil–socialism’s gift to America.

MaiDee on December 29, 2013 at 10:02 AM

Hey, wait just a damn minute here. I heard the hookers are gorgeous?

Jaibones on December 29, 2013 at 9:37 PM

In response to several of the posters: Please don’t come to Oklahoma. We don’t really need any more unskilled labor. Now if you can build or maintain airliners, survive in an oil field, or know a little about money and computers, come on down. We don’t need any history, poly sci, black or womyns studies, medical records type, etc.

But for those who do qualify, I got a 2200 square house and 25 adjoining acres, pay less than $1000 property taxes, income tax for retirees is almost non-existent. Our teachers don’t make as much as the NY teachers, as we are constantly reminded. Can you figure out why? We are right to work, have very low unemployment, lots of meth addicts, some crime imported from kalifornica, and some very mean prisons.

The schools can’t be too bad, I got three professionals as descendants. All the girls pack heat and are built like the proverbial brick commodes. The country daughter and daughter-in-law pulled in five deer this year, dressed them out themselves. How’s that for PHds. Now, unless you think you can match that, go to Texas. At least there, you can see better football than you can in NY.

Old Country Boy on December 29, 2013 at 10:16 PM

Oh, I forgot. In reference to the red/blue map. Oklahoma is the only state where EVERY SINGLE county was red. The only blue is in the eyes of our Governor.

Old Country Boy on December 29, 2013 at 10:18 PM

Old Country Boy on December 29, 2013 at 10:18 PM

North Texas says what? *runs*

annoyinglittletwerp on December 29, 2013 at 10:22 PM

When a NY Governor signs legislation allowing fracking, we’ll know there’s been a sea change. Until then, down, down down we go. And Park Slope Food Coop, GFY with that NO FRACKING sign in your window down the street!

ParisParamus on December 30, 2013 at 1:12 AM

Doug also cites the weather, as does the previous New York Times article. Personally, while many people find the climate in the South appealing, I think it’s far from enough to cause this sort of shift.

You’re right about this Jazz. I spent the 1st 10yrs of my life living and growing up in Florida. I can tell you that the weather is sometimes brutal. It’s hot most of the year but it’s also very humid. You sweat all the time and you have to have air conditioning in your home, not to mention the hurricane threats. The weather is a handy excuse for why people move away but it is not the main reason. I think the main reason is economic.

Dollayo on December 30, 2013 at 3:02 AM

As a native New Yorker, who now thankfully lives in Texas, let me say that New Yorkers have brought this on themselves. They have continually voted for Democrats, who have legislated the state into their current problems. And yet, New Yorkers seem to have learned nothing. Now we have the coup de grace, in New York City, where the voters have elected Comandante De Blasio, a Sandanista admirer, as mayor.
The other part of the problem is, New Yorkers fleeing the conditions they have created in their home state, moving to states like Florida and Texas, and then continuing to vote for Democrats, so that they can ruin their new home states.

kjatexas on December 30, 2013 at 12:26 PM

To clarify, New York is not actually decreasing in population…

Isn’t that what they were saying about Detroit?

CiLH1 on December 30, 2013 at 4:51 PM

So high taxes and a low number of good-paying jobs causes people to look elsewhere for work? Who would’ve guessed it?

Wino on December 31, 2013 at 2:47 AM

The populace is not so populous anymore.

VorDaj on December 28, 2013 at 6:09 PM

My vote for best comment de jour

Don L on December 31, 2013 at 5:09 AM

The Golden Goose (Wall St) has begun moving large chunks of it’s work force to Jacksonville, North Carolina and Houston already. The effects are not yet being felt but they will. I know, as I work for one of the largest Wall St firms in the world. When that tax base collaspes it is not going to be pretty. The South is quietly rising again. I will leave this state soon enough.

Maxlugar on December 31, 2013 at 9:15 AM

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