Krauthammer: I don’t believe in God, but I fear him greatly

posted at 6:01 pm on December 23, 2013 by Allahpundit

Via the Daily Caller, you can’t put a clip in front of me of a conservative as prominent as the Hammer embracing atheism and not expect it to be blogged. It’s like AMC airing a very special episode of “The Walking Dead” where Rick (finally!) gets eaten. It’s not that I want to blog it, I have to blog it, as a sort of virtual high-five to the readership. Even though I realize that, on this one, I’m destined to end up like Tom Brady.

First George Will comes out as agnostic, now Krauthammer takes the Einsteinian view of a universe that’s too awesome to be a total accident but also too awesome to be explicable by any human conception of God. All that’s left is for Mark Steyn to declare that God is dead — and he’s gloomy enough to do it, too — before I declare victory.

“There was once a philosopher who said, ‘I don’t believe in God, but I fear him greatly.’ That’s about where I am,” the author of “Things That Matter: Three Decades of Passions, Pastimes and Politics” said. ”I’ve had a fairly difficult and complicated notion of the deity. If I tried to explain it I would simply say — and this is by no means associating myself with the greatness of the man — but I would associate myself with Einstein’s conception of God, which was a recognition and an awe before the mystery of the order and beauty of the universe, which would imply that there is something very mysterious and very awesome — awe-inspiring — about the universe.”

Since you can’t have too much atheism on a slow news day, I’ve been remiss in not blogging the Harris Poll on Americans’ religious beliefs that came out last week. The topline numbers speak for themselves:

athe

For a deeper insight into those numbers, follow the link and skip down to Table 4. Ten years ago, 50 percent of the public said they believed that God exists and that he observes what happens on Earth but doesn’t control things. Just 15 percent said they didn’t believe in God. Ten years later, those numbers are 37 percent and 25 percent, respectively. That jibes with other polls I’ve seen showing movement from the deist and agnostic camps over time into the atheist one. I don’t think that’s purely a function of people becoming less religious; some do, but others simply feel more comfortable calling themselves atheists or denying a belief in God than they used to. That’s a question, in fact, that I can’t recall ever seeing polled — how many self-described atheists today have slowly come around to that view over time and how many have held that view for many years but only recently began to feel that they could cop to it without suffering social stigma?

The other interesting data set is Table 1b, which shows the split among different age groups on specific questions about God, Jesus, Darwin, and various supernatural beings/practices. Some results are predictable: There’s a 17- to 19-point difference between young adults (age 18-36) and seniors (68+) on belief in God, the divinity of Jesus, and the resurrection. Fewer young adults believe in those last two, in fact, than believe in angels. At 49 percent, young adults are also the age group that’s most likely to subscribe to Darwin’s theory of evolution. Go further down the list, though, and you’ll find that young adults are less skeptical about some paranormal mainstays than seniors are. On the subject of ghosts, there’s a 20-point difference — 44 percent of young adults believe versus just 24 percent of seniors. On UFOs, it’s 36/30; on witches, it’s 27/18; on reincarnation, it’s 27/13; and on astrology, it’s 33/23. It may be true that young adults are less religious generally than their elders, but there’s some segment of them who are filling the spiritual void with other stuff. Who knows? Maybe, in a few hundred years, the ultimate triumph of the Dawkins/Hitchens effort will be a grand revival of, er … astrology. On second thought, maybe I’ll hold off on declaring victory after all.


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He means Obama,..no??
(sarc)

canopfor on December 23, 2013 at 6:07 PM

You missed the money quite Allah…

The Blaze: “I’m not at all an atheist. I mean, of all the possible theologies, atheism is the least plausible,” he said at the time. “I mean, you’ve got to explain the existence of the universe, and to assume it invented itself or created itself is rather odd.”

E L Frederick (Sniper One) on December 23, 2013 at 6:07 PM

Yawn. Not enough to get even a beta atheist’s mojo running. What is less than beta? Onesie-male?

Deism is a much better way to go.

cozmo on December 23, 2013 at 6:08 PM

“Money Quote… ” no money quite….

/sigh I guess I’m destined to be Tom Brady as well..

E L Frederick (Sniper One) on December 23, 2013 at 6:09 PM

Sounds like he’s ready for Pascal’s Wager.

de rigueur on December 23, 2013 at 6:09 PM

I know a lot of agnostics like that.

Mr. Joe on December 23, 2013 at 6:09 PM

All that’s left is for Mark Steyn to declare that God is dead —
===============================================================

God Is Dead? – Black Sabbath
****************************

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Z4awjhxhso

canopfor on December 23, 2013 at 6:10 PM

“I would associate myself with Einstein’s conception of God.”

And you still won’t be any more insightful than Krauthammer.

Axe on December 23, 2013 at 6:12 PM

Charles Krauthammer – Dyed-In-The-Wool Liberal, Walter Mondale’s Former Speechwriter………..

Poses as a “conservative” – which he is NOT!!

williamg on December 23, 2013 at 6:13 PM

Hedging the bet.

You can not fool mother nature.

That is what he says to us, but late at night alone he tells God a different story.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on December 23, 2013 at 6:15 PM

Keeping his foot in both camps.

APACHEWHOKNOWS on December 23, 2013 at 6:16 PM

Wait. Where did I hear it? “There are no atheists in fox news.” Or something.

de rigueur on December 23, 2013 at 6:16 PM

HEY WEBMASTER….Seriously… 2 auto-start ads with an auto-start video of Charles?

geek49203 on December 23, 2013 at 6:17 PM

I’m stuck on the concept of Krauthammer as a conservative. He’s above all us mere prols isn’t he? More of a Peggy Noonan conservative. Craft sentences for reactions and head to the next social event.

DanMan on December 23, 2013 at 6:21 PM

f*cking autoplay.

Midas on December 23, 2013 at 6:23 PM

Not sure how anyone can declare victory on this topic. A) God, until He shows himself in a form that is convincing to all, requires faith in His existence. And B), for those who don’t have faith, they’ll never be proven wrong while they can still admit it.

So, to each his own.

BKeyser on December 23, 2013 at 6:26 PM

The other interesting data set is Table 1b, which shows the split among different age groups on specific questions about God, Jesus, Darwin, and various supernatural beings/practices. Some results are predictable: There’s a 17- to 19-point difference between young adults (age 18-36) and seniors (68+) on belief in God, the divinity of Jesus, and the resurrection. Fewer young adults believe in those last two, in fact, than believe in angels. At 49 percent, young adults are also the age group that’s most likely to subscribe to Darwin’s theory of evolution. Go further down the list, though, and you’ll find that young adults are less skeptical about some paranormal mainstays than seniors are. On the subject of ghosts, there’s a 20-point difference — 44 percent of young adults believe versus just 24 percent of seniors. On UFOs, it’s 36/30; on witches, it’s 27/18; on reincarnation, it’s 27/13; and on astrology, it’s 33/23. It may be true that young adults are less religious generally than their elders, but there’s some segment of them who are filling the spiritual void with other stuff. Who knows? Maybe, in a few hundred years, the ultimate triumph of the Dawkins/Hitchens effort will be a grand revival of, er … astrology. On second thought, maybe I’ll hold off on declaring victory after all.

Angels and reincarnation, but no god. Ghosts, UFOs, witches, astrology — but no god. How finally enlightened is that youthful support for same-sex “marriage” looking now? Or that triumph of reason?

No — people are becoming ‘tards, and it’s because other ‘tards are lobotomizing them so that they can’t tell right from wrong, and the ‘tards doing the lobotomizing are people that want wrong to be taken for right. Fortunately, the whole miserable mass of twisted, double-thinking rationalization will be forced to eat itself soon, and the horses, free of man, will run majestically in the fields like I saw on 28 Days Later.

But that’s all I’ll say. I don’t want to risk offending anyone.

Axe on December 23, 2013 at 6:27 PM

I am a Lutheran who believes in intelligent design, Jesus and God. I am also a Libertarian.

To each his own. Your bidness isn’t my bidness and my bidness isn’t your bidness.

Live and let live. Obey the Law. Do what is right.

/Impeach Obama, please? LOL!!!

Key West Reader on December 23, 2013 at 6:27 PM

Deism is a much better way to go.

cozmo on December 23, 2013 at 6:08 PM

That’s pretty much where I’m at – we are far too insignificant to be noticed as individuals.

Who is John Galt on December 23, 2013 at 6:30 PM

f*cking autoplay.

Midas on December 23, 2013 at 6:23 PM

Pirates ARGH!!!

Key West Reader on December 23, 2013 at 6:30 PM

geek49203 on December 23, 2013 at 6:17 PM
Midas on December 23, 2013 at 6:23 PM

You’ll enjoy this.

King B on December 23, 2013 at 6:30 PM

Angels and reincarnation, but no god. Ghosts, UFOs, witches, astrology — but no god. How finally enlightened is that youthful support for same-sex “marriage” looking now? Or that triumph of reason?

No — people are becoming ‘tards, and it’s because other ‘tards are lobotomizing them so that they can’t tell right from wrong, and the ‘tards doing the lobotomizing are people that want wrong to be taken for right. Fortunately, the whole miserable mass of twisted, double-thinking rationalization will be forced to eat itself soon, and the horses, free of man, will run majestically in the fields like I saw on 28 Days Later.

But that’s all I’ll say. I don’t want to risk offending anyone.

Axe on December 23, 2013 at 6:27 PM

Axe:

Welcome to Obama’s Change,…a slow incrementalism crawl to
the Left’s Boinking UTOPIA,..ProgressiveTard Style:0

canopfor on December 23, 2013 at 6:30 PM

Anything less than a spittle-flying arm-waver is an insult to socons.

Moesart on December 23, 2013 at 6:32 PM

He’s an agnostic.

portlandon on December 23, 2013 at 6:32 PM

Congratulations. Quite a source for celebration.

The likelihood that you are correct remains precisely 50%. Mine, too.
If it’s OK with everyone, me ‘n Blaise Pascal will stick with the upside 50%.

Merry Christmas, everyone.:
Or, for Mr Allahpundit: Enjoy Wednesday.

orangemtl on December 23, 2013 at 6:32 PM

It doesn’t really matter to me if God exists, because He either doesn’t care what happens on earth, or – if He actually rewards or punishes people in some after or next life, He’s little more than than a glorified Santa Claus. A common moral justification of God is that without Him there’s no right and wrong, but I don’t see how a Heavenly Creator has any more inherent insight into the difference than an earthly one (like, say, the typical mother of a child) does. And if we all have to figure out what’s right and wrong for ourselves, God is pretty much irrelevant. Of course it’s possible that people who believe in God are happier,or more forebearing, or even nicer (though I wouldn’t necessarily bet on it), but that’s not proof of anything except perhaps the benefits of a trusting temperament. It wouldn’t surprise me if I were less atheistic on sunshiny days than on cloudy ones. So what?

Seth Halpern on December 23, 2013 at 6:33 PM

You can show the “charts” and polling going down to .00001% and I WILL be in that poll professing eternal salvation. The numbers moving mean nothing.

Rovin on December 23, 2013 at 6:33 PM

Charles Krauthammer – Dyed-In-The-Wool Liberal, Walter Mondale’s Former Speechwriter………..

Poses as a “conservative” – which he is NOT!!

williamg on December 23, 2013 at 6:13 PM

Some people discover the error of their ways and change parties.

Others just can’t stop being stupid and uniformed.

fogw on December 23, 2013 at 6:33 PM

I’m stuck on the concept of Krauthammer as a conservative. He’s above all us mere prols isn’t he? More of a Peggy Noonan conservative. Craft sentences for reactions and head to the next social event.

DanMan on December 23, 2013 at 6:21 PM

I’m glad i scrolled up to stop that AUTO PLAY AD. Argh.

I think Charles is sincere. I don’t see him as a Bill Kristol or Bill Bennett or Paul Ryan. Or John Boehner. Or … you know what I mean.

I pay attention when Krauthammer speaks. Same way I do Kirsten Powers. Probably 2 of the most sincere people ever. Because they speak from the heart.

Key West Reader on December 23, 2013 at 6:34 PM

As an agnostic, I find this trend saddening. Faith is a wonderful thing to behold.

Stickeehands on December 23, 2013 at 6:34 PM

Anything less than a spittle-flying arm-waver is an insult to socons.

Moesart on December 23, 2013 at 6:32 PM

Considering Krauthammer is paralyzed from the shoulders down, your comment is even more cruel & idiotic than normal.

portlandon on December 23, 2013 at 6:34 PM

Kraut is a progressive and should NEVER be referred to as a conservative. Never.

Mr. Arrogant on December 23, 2013 at 6:34 PM

Not sure how anyone can declare victory on this topic. A) God, until He shows himself in a form that is convincing to all, requires faith in His existence. And B), for those who don’t have faith, they’ll never be proven wrong while they can still admit it.

So, to each his own.

BKeyser on December 23, 2013 at 6:26 PM

People who have had personal experiences with God don’t need faith that He exists, nor do they care if others believe their experiences were real.

When smug, dogmatic atheists try to tell people like me we don’t/can’t know the truth about our own religious experiences, I just laugh at them – sounds like a win for me! :)

Anti-Control on December 23, 2013 at 6:35 PM

It’s surprising what makes an adult giddy.

vityas on December 23, 2013 at 6:36 PM

I find myself in the Dr’s camp of thought. While I have always hoped to find a deeper faith – mine matches his.

jake-the-goose on December 23, 2013 at 6:37 PM

I always feel like CK is looking down at us as mere insects when he speaks. Granted, I don’t pay a lot of attention to him.

I have dung balls to roll. And auto-start videos to mute

Ugly on December 23, 2013 at 6:38 PM

I just read through this thread – it is astonishing how people who apparently have “true belief” have so little regard for people who have not found that place.

I will never understand how those lucky enough to have found God – still remain somehow intolerant.

Merry Christmas to all – and God bless you and yours.

jake-the-goose on December 23, 2013 at 6:41 PM

Welcome to Obama’s Change,…a slow incrementalism crawl to
the Left’s Boinking UTOPIA,..ProgressiveTard Style:0

canopfor on December 23, 2013 at 6:30 PM

God State can do without philosophers. :)

Maybe that’s why God State flags always depict someone with a hammer or a farm implement or a rivet gun. It’s never a statue of a chick in glasses carrying a load of books.

Axe on December 23, 2013 at 6:41 PM

The fear of the LORD is the beginning of wisdom.

davidk on December 23, 2013 at 6:42 PM

Anti-Control on December 23, 2013 at 6:35 PM

Certainly one can be secure in his faith, as I am in mine. I suppose that feels like victory, though I was speaking more to AP’s notion of “victory” in which -I think- he’s referring to one side proving the other side wrong. In that sense, I don’t think victory will ever be achieved.

BKeyser on December 23, 2013 at 6:43 PM

Deism is a much better way to go.

cozmo on December 23, 2013 at 6:08 PM

That’s pretty much where I’m at – we are far too insignificant to be noticed as individuals.

Who is John Galt on December 23, 2013 at 6:30 PM

Actually read your bible and then Think again.

Matthew 10:29-31
…28″Do not fear those who kill the body but are unable to kill the soul; but rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.

29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care.[a] 30 And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows.

IOW, The sparrow is a small bird that is not considered to be of much consequence. It is too small to be much of a meal, so in Christ’s day sparrows probably did not warrant much attention. But this small bird is of consequence to God. This passage shows how much God pays attention to. “The very hairs on your head are numbered.” The inference is that if God notices the fall of a sparrow how much more is he concerned with your life. Nothing happens in this life that God does not know about. It is truly an exquisitely beautiful passage.

avagreen on December 23, 2013 at 6:48 PM

I just read through this thread – it is astonishing how people who apparently have “true belief” have so little regard for people who have not found that place.

I will never understand how those lucky enough to have found God – still remain somehow intolerant.

Merry Christmas to all – and God bless you and yours.

jake-the-goose on December 23, 2013 at 6:41 PM

I am a Christian. And I am flawed. I try to be equally intolerant believers or non believers.

After all, God is not Tolerant.

portlandon on December 23, 2013 at 6:55 PM

Allah, why are you so happy about this, and concerned about declaring victory?

Seriously, what’s it to ya?

Alana on December 23, 2013 at 6:56 PM

I just read through this thread – it is astonishing how people who apparently have “true belief” have so little regard for people who have not found that place.

I will never understand how those lucky enough to have found God – still remain somehow intolerant.

Merry Christmas to all – and God bless you and yours.

jake-the-goose on December 23, 2013 at 6:41 PM

Why focus of the kind of “believer” to whom you are referring?

I know God, and am very tolerant of those who don’t share my knowledge. I don’t consider my awareness to all be due to “luck,” btw. I’ve had a sense of God since I was a kid (my parents did give me a good foundation – I felt loved & adored by them since my birth, and realize that everyone is not so fortunate) but I acquired more knowledge over the years by asking questions, and testing my own faith…

Anti-Control on December 23, 2013 at 6:58 PM

Krauthammer: I don’t believe in God, but I’m afraid of him.

Well, Agent Cujan, I do believe in God, and the only thing that scares me is Keyser Söze.

JimLennon on December 23, 2013 at 6:58 PM

avagreen on December 23, 2013 at 6:48 PM

Yes. And that in no way contradicts my devout fundamentalist evangelical deism.

cozmo on December 23, 2013 at 6:58 PM

I am a Christian. And I am flawed. I try to be equally intolerant believers or non believers.

After all, God is not Tolerant.

portlandon on December 23, 2013 at 6:55 PM

You made my day – and I think you for that.

All the troubles we have – all the flaws we endure – we are so lucky to be alive – to be able to complain and work on our society.

I am blessed to have learned so much from the members of HotAir – even when we disagree – I read – I listen – I learn.

This is a wonderful forum.

jake-the-goose on December 23, 2013 at 6:59 PM

Axe on December 23, 2013 at 6:27 PM

I agree with Axe. People are becoming tards.

SparkPlug on December 23, 2013 at 6:59 PM

Allah, why are you so happy about this, and concerned about declaring victory?

Seriously, what’s it to ya?

Alana on December 23, 2013 at 6:56 PM

He isn’t happy, though. Hence the reservations on declaring victory. The numbers are not indicative of the actual, hoped-for victory. Instead, the numbers indicate — as some of us have ceaselessly warned — people eating each other and majestic horses inheriting the earth.

I’d give it another week.

Axe on December 23, 2013 at 7:00 PM

And the more society rejects God, the more uncivilized it becomes.

Rose on December 23, 2013 at 7:01 PM

The anti-theists will be here shortly after suppertime.

davidk on December 23, 2013 at 7:01 PM

35 percent approve of Obama Care.

Who are these idiots?

SparkPlug on December 23, 2013 at 7:04 PM

Deism is a much better way to go.

cozmo on December 23, 2013 at 6:08 PM

About the only god I imagine I’ll ever “believe” in again.

To borrow a partial quote from Jefferson.

It neither breaks my leg nor picks my pocket to admit of the possibility of god, but theistic gods, no way. Not nearly awe inspiring enough to be real.

SauerKraut537 on December 23, 2013 at 7:05 PM

Logical positivism is dead.

SparkPlug on December 23, 2013 at 7:05 PM

Heh.

davidk on December 23, 2013 at 7:06 PM

Drink beer now. Drink beer later.

SparkPlug on December 23, 2013 at 7:06 PM

All that’s left is for Mark Steyn to declare that God is dead

“Nietzsche is dead.”
- God

malclave on December 23, 2013 at 7:07 PM

There comes a point where even the intelligent and thoughtful individual can argue themselves into saying something that is contradictory and makes no sense at all. I believe Mr. Krauthammer has reached that point.

People who are angry with God, yet insist the don’t believe in God, or any god, are angry with something they don’t believe exists. One can’t be angry with something that one doesn’t believe exists, it’s irrational.

Likewise, it’s irrational for any individual, Einstein or Krauthammer, to say they don’t believe in God, or any god, and in the same breath, say that they fear God.

Oh, I get the ‘wonder of the universe’ hedge, but expressing one’s awe at the universe in discussing a lack of belief in a deity, or the Deity, in discussion of disbelief of God, is simply an attempt to hedge one’s meaningless, contradictory statement. It’s an attempt to cover one’s derriere.

thatsafactjack on December 23, 2013 at 7:08 PM

Logical positivism is dead.

SparkPlug on December 23, 2013 at 7:05 PM

Heh. Don’t tell the materialists that.

davidk on December 23, 2013 at 7:08 PM

What’s interesting is not that atheists don’t believe in God but rather what they substitute in place of God.

SparkPlug on December 23, 2013 at 7:08 PM

Agnostic…no big deal

Redford on December 23, 2013 at 7:09 PM

He’s an agnostic.

portlandon on December 23, 2013 at 6:32 PM

You know what the difference between an atheist and an agnostic is?

Nada. Sure we have different definitions but they are a difference without a distinction.

An agnostic just says I don’t know, an atheist means I don’t know but says your god, the one you happen to champion/propose, isn’t real

SauerKraut537 on December 23, 2013 at 7:10 PM

By the way, a large percentage of those who claim to be an atheist also believe their is an afterlife. They also believe that one possesses a soul. They just like to call it a ‘spirit’ or ‘essence’.

thatsafactjack on December 23, 2013 at 7:10 PM

avagreen on December 23, 2013 at 6:48 PM

Yes. And that in no way contradicts my devout fundamentalist evangelical deism.

cozmo on December 23, 2013 at 6:58 PM

Although I was not addressing you, only providing the quote that inspired the next response, now that you have brought it up…are there different types of Deism? I really don’t know. (There about 16-17 types of atheists.)

The reason I ask is that that particular, and there are more, implies that God does intervene else the comfort in v. 29 – 31 would be wrong.

I’m just asking…..

Deism is the theosophical doctrine in which it is understood that God can be found only through the exercise of reason, and does not intervene in the Universe.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=deism

avagreen on December 23, 2013 at 7:12 PM

thatsafactjack on December 23, 2013 at 7:08 PM

They’re not angry at god, at something they don’t think exists, they’re bothered by others who claim there is without having any evidence of it.

SauerKraut537 on December 23, 2013 at 7:12 PM

I love the image and the the story of the nativity.
The idea of peace on earth, good will to men is not a bad wish to express.
As an atheist conservative who celebrates Christmas with his Catholic wife & son (and extended family) … Merry Christmas my friends.

May Obamacare die hard & fast!

kregg on December 23, 2013 at 7:12 PM

Certainly one can be secure in his faith, as I am in mine. I suppose that feels like victory, though I was speaking more to AP’s notion of “victory” in which -I think- he’s referring to one side proving the other side wrong. In that sense, I don’t think victory will ever be achieved.

BKeyser on December 23, 2013 at 6:43 PM

Ok, I’d agree with you there…what I had responded to was your statement,

A) God, until He shows himself in a form that is convincing to all, requires faith in His existence.

I completely disagree with that – people who know God don’t need the verification of others before they can “know” him, and many atheists don’t understand this. That kind of atheist might want to argue about it, but I don’t have the need nor desire! :)

Anti-Control on December 23, 2013 at 7:12 PM

thatsafactjack on December 23, 2013 at 7:08 PM

I wouldn’t worry about it.

Faith is personal and therefore individual. Unless you are in a cult…or Catholic.

cozmo on December 23, 2013 at 7:13 PM

*in this particular verse and there are other more….*

avagreen on December 23, 2013 at 7:14 PM

And the more society rejects God, the more uncivilized it becomes.

Rose on December 23, 2013 at 7:01 PM

Non sequitur… Many societies in the east don’t believe in god and they’re as civilized as you or I.

SauerKraut537 on December 23, 2013 at 7:14 PM

…are there different types of Deism? I really don’t know. (There about 16-17 types of atheists.)

avagreen on December 23, 2013 at 7:12 PM

Yes.

cozmo on December 23, 2013 at 7:15 PM

Nihilists serve no purpose because to them nothing has purpose.

That view is tantamount to surrender.

SparkPlug on December 23, 2013 at 7:15 PM

Afraid of God?

God is love.

And if Krauthammer doesn’t know what love is, he can read a very good description of it in I Corinthians 13; 4-8.

AZCoyote on December 23, 2013 at 7:16 PM

I agree with Axe. People are becoming tards.

SparkPlug on December 23, 2013 at 6:59 PM

Did you say “tard”? That’s so offensive I can’t believe you typed it. I’m going to write a none-too-indirect letter to management and demand your immediate — indeed, retroactive — banning. I’m going to try to get you banned so hard that you were banned before you were born.

I’m going to go find that machine Kirk used to go have sex with Edith Keeler back in the twentieth century and try to ban you while mankind was just a freakishly improbable, spontaneously organized single-cell, replicating according to encoded information that came from absolutely nowhere.

Hey! know what? –I’m going to re-purpose my entire billion dollar fortune, and develop a big black obelisk which I will bury on the moon. Then I’m going to set off an EMP and restart mankind. Then, after everyone’s forgotten I ever did it and man rebuilds, they will find the device on the moon and unwisely touch it. And do you know what will happen? It will ban you across all space and time at that instant. The fact that you are self-evidently not banned across all space and time, as proved by your deeply offensive comment only a moment ago, is just something we call in Science “a shrugger.”

I’ll start later. My offense is wearing off. Actually, I don’t really feel offended at all anymore.

. . . Well, let’s just say you lucked out.

Axe on December 23, 2013 at 7:17 PM

Yes.

cozmo on December 23, 2013 at 7:15 PM

Would you explain yours? Especially in view of what I said about the definition of Deism.

avagreen on December 23, 2013 at 7:18 PM

SparkPlug on December 23, 2013 at 7:15 PM

Well yes. But if you have ever converted a female nihilist back to any faith…wow.

Talk about something to live for.

cozmo on December 23, 2013 at 7:18 PM

You know what the difference between an atheist and an agnostic is?

Nada. Sure we have different definitions but they are a difference without a distinction.

An agnostic just says I don’t know, an atheist means I don’t know but says your god, the one you happen to champion/propose, isn’t real

SauerKraut537 on December 23, 2013 at 7:10 PM

This is false.

Atheists: have taken a position (negative) about God’s existence
Agnostics: haven’t take a position
Theists & Deists: have taken a position (positive) about God’s existence

Anti-Control on December 23, 2013 at 7:19 PM

Will be away for a while……in the shower.

avagreen on December 23, 2013 at 7:19 PM

SauerKraut537 on December 23, 2013 at 7:10 PM

He can’t declare there is not God, yet be afraid of God and be an atheist.

He’s Agnostic.

portlandon on December 23, 2013 at 7:19 PM

SauerKraut537 on December 23, 2013 at 7:12 PM

I personally know people, highly educated individuals, who are seriously angry with God and yet declare themselves to be atheists and deny the existence of God or any god.

Your choice to try to speak for others is an interesting one, however, in light of the topic.

thatsafactjack on December 23, 2013 at 7:20 PM

What’s interesting is not that atheists don’t believe in God but rather what they substitute in place of God.

SparkPlug on December 23, 2013 at 7:08 PM

They don’t. They believe you are here on earth for a short period of time and when you die, you don’t exist. There is no afterlife

However, I’ve seen a few atheists who call for God during trying times and near death.

Jews do not believe in afterlife

Redford on December 23, 2013 at 7:21 PM

Did you say “tard”? That’s so offensive I can’t believe you typed it. I’m going to write a none-too-indirect letter to management and demand your immediate — indeed, retroactive — banning. I’m going to try to get you banned so hard that you were banned before you were born.

I’m going to go find that machine Kirk used to go have sex with Edith Keeler back in the twentieth century and try to ban you while mankind was just a freakishly improbable, spontaneously organized single-cell, replicating according to encoded information that came from absolutely nowhere.

Hey! know what? –I’m going to re-purpose my entire billion dollar fortune, and develop a big black obelisk which I will bury on the moon. Then I’m going to set off an EMP and restart mankind. Then, after everyone’s forgotten I ever did it and man rebuilds, they will find the device on the moon and unwisely touch it. And do you know what will happen? It will ban you across all space and time at that instant. The fact that you are self-evidently not banned across all space and time, as proved by your deeply offensive comment only a moment ago, is just something we call in Science “a shrugger.”

I’ll start later. My offense is wearing off. Actually, I don’t really feel offended at all anymore.

. . . Well, let’s just say you lucked out.

Axe on December 23, 2013 at 7:17 PM

I liked to frame this post, and place it on a shelf for posterity.

portlandon on December 23, 2013 at 7:22 PM

Deism is the theosophical doctrine in which it is understood that God can be found only through the exercise of reason, and does not intervene in the Universe.

https://duckduckgo.com/?q=deism

avagreen on December 23, 2013 at 7:12 PM

That’s pretty much it.

Christian belief would say that you can reason, through general revelation, to the cause of the universe, but through Special Revelation we can discover Who that God is and learn that we can have a personal relation with Him

davidk on December 23, 2013 at 7:23 PM

avagreen on December 23, 2013 at 7:18 PM

Okay:

Old testament; man was in his infancy and needed guidance, nurturing and discipline.

New testament forward; we are in our teenage phase. God is sitting back watching the show. Giving us enough rope to either hang ourselves with or be something worthy of his/her acceptance.

It may not fit into any niche, but it is mine.

cozmo on December 23, 2013 at 7:23 PM

Will be away for a while……in the shower.

avagreen on December 23, 2013 at 7:19 PM

I open myself up like that and you run off to the shower!?

Some people’s kids…

cozmo on December 23, 2013 at 7:25 PM

Allahpundit and Pajama Boy are atheists. Just saying.

Sugar Land on December 23, 2013 at 7:28 PM

Anti-Control on December 23, 2013 at 7:19 PM

I contend that the definition of atheism is wrong. I’ve said it before, maybe you missed it but think about this…

Agnostic essentially means to be without knowledge
amoral essentially means to be without morals
atypical essentially means to be without typicality
apolitical essentially means to be without political proclivities
etc

Why does atheism all of a sudden change the definition method shown above and become a positive claim that there is no god?

To me, atheism simply means to be without theism.

It’s really very simple really.

Atheism was derived from the Greek atheos which translates to mean to be without god, but the context of that word was meant to describe anyone and everyone who didn’t believe in the gods of the greek pantheon. In that context, to be without god isn’t to say that a god doesn’t exist, it’s more to mean that they were without polytheistic god belief, specifically the Greek polytheism prevalent in their country.

SauerKraut537 on December 23, 2013 at 7:31 PM

What’s interesting is not that atheists don’t believe in God but rather what they substitute in place of God.

SparkPlug on December 23, 2013 at 7:08 PM

They don’t. They believe you are here on earth for a short period of time and when you die, you don’t exist. There is no afterlife

However, I’ve seen a few atheists who call for God during trying times and near death.

Jews do not believe in afterlife

Redford on December 23, 2013 at 7:21 PM

That’s not what he meant.

* Some Jews believe in an afterlife. They’ve been arguing about it the whole time. Jesus, a Jew, was pulled into the argument once.

Axe on December 23, 2013 at 7:32 PM

Although I don’t put Dr. K in this camp- he seems to have thought himself into his belief- most unbelievers are hoping that there is no God so they’ll not be called to account for what they know intuitively is their guilt and sin. The jumping off point is usually sex. One can rationalize away many things in the service of lust.

Mason on December 23, 2013 at 7:35 PM

SauerKraut537 on December 23, 2013 at 7:31 PM

LOL!You and only you know the real definition of atheism.

Glad you set the record straight. Now we no longer have to work under an assumption. We know by your own admission that you’re an idiot.

thatsafactjack on December 23, 2013 at 7:37 PM

thatsafactjack on December 23, 2013 at 7:20 PM

I didn’t mean to imply that there aren’t people like that. Of course there are people who are angry, but I don’t think they’re really angry at god… I think they’re angry at those who led them down the rabbit hole called religion.

SauerKraut537 on December 23, 2013 at 7:39 PM

SauerKraut537 on December 23, 2013 at 7:39 PM

I won’t be reading anymore of your posts. You’re reaching and seeking to make up even the relevant terms to suit yourself. Intellectualism isn’t ‘Burger King’.

thatsafactjack on December 23, 2013 at 7:42 PM

I contend that the definition of atheism is wrong. I’ve said it before, maybe you missed it but think about this…

To me, atheism simply means to be without theism.

SauerKraut537 on December 23, 2013 at 7:31 PM

You do realize that most people see & accept the distinction between “atheism” and “agnosticism” that I made…

If you don’t like how it’s done that way, for the purpose of ease of communication, why don’t you offer up the word you prefer to describe someone who’s decided that God doesn’t exist?

Anti-Control on December 23, 2013 at 7:42 PM

Okay:

Old testament; man was in his infancy and needed guidance, nurturing and discipline.

New testament forward; we are in our teenage phase. God is sitting back watching the show. Giving us enough rope to either hang ourselves with or be something worthy of his/her acceptance.

It may not fit into any niche, but it is mine.

cozmo on December 23, 2013 at 7:23 PM

That’s big-arc stuff. It doesn’t really touch a person-to-person relationship with God, even if it were generally right. Unless you mean a complete withdrawal by “sitting back”?

–But a big part of this deal is the part where people were never intended to do this alone, in isolation.

. . . man, this is tough. I want to say stuff and can’t. :)

. . . prayer is a dialog.

Axe on December 23, 2013 at 7:42 PM

Deism is a much better way to go.

cozmo on December 23, 2013 at 6:08 PM

That’s pretty much where I’m at – we are far too insignificant to be noticed as individuals.

Who is John Galt on December 23, 2013 at 6:30 PM

I think God is our Father. He notices, and knows us by name and is there for us, as close as prayer. I think a lot of people look at the problem of human suffering and decide either God doesn’t care or he doesn’t exist. I can understand that view, but I think the truth is more that we are here having a human experience, and in the end, the worst thing that can happen is death. Jesus Christ made that into a triumph, and it all began with a babe lying in a manger. All is well, Merry Christmas.

Kristamatic on December 23, 2013 at 7:42 PM

I agree with Axe. People are becoming tards.

SparkPlug on December 23, 2013 at 6:59 PM

SparkPlug:

The Lib/Dem/ProgTards,…were unleashed in 2008,

as Hopey/Changey’s Civilian National Security ForceTARDS!!
——————-:0
(sarc)

canopfor on December 23, 2013 at 7:43 PM

thatsafactjack on December 23, 2013 at 7:37 PM

LOL! Call me names all you like but I’ve been studying this topic for years and the definition doesn’t make sense.

When you look at it with the knowledge of how the ancient Greeks actually used it my definition makes sense.

You can call me an idiot for thinking that but plenty of intelligent people throughout history have held idiotic beliefs while at the same time being well respected and revered on other topics.

SauerKraut537 on December 23, 2013 at 7:43 PM

I liked to frame this post, and place it on a shelf for posterity.

portlandon on December 23, 2013 at 7:22 PM

One of the nicest things anyone’s ever said to me. :)

Merry Christmas!

Axe on December 23, 2013 at 7:43 PM

Anti-Control on December 23, 2013 at 7:42 PM

Why does theism have atheism as its opposite but deism doesn’t have an adeist?

SauerKraut537 on December 23, 2013 at 7:44 PM

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