McCain: Republicans who vote against this budget deal without proposing their own plan lack some intellectual integrity

posted at 4:41 pm on December 17, 2013 by Allahpundit

Via Charlie Spiering, for once Maverick really is engaged in some straight talk. He’s not voting for the Boehner/Ryan bill because it’s a good deal, he says, he’s voting for it because his top priority here is to avert another shutdown. Simple as that. (Well, almost: He also wants to roll back sequestration cuts to defense spending, naturally.) That’s why the House GOP passed it too, notwithstanding Paul Ryan’s frequently painful attempts to frame the deal as some sort of win for smaller government. Republicans in leadership are terrified that Cruz or Paul will build a grassroots groundswell for another shutdown before the midterms so they decided to take that weapon out of their hands. McCain’s whole shpiel here, in fact, is basically an accusation that the “defund” faction led the party into a standoff which it had no plan for resolving. No more dead ends, says Maverick.

Or are there?

Senate Republicans Tuesday said they are ready to go to battle over raising the debt limit early next year, echoing comments made by Rep. Paul Ryan over the weekend that the GOP would rally for certain concessions from Democrats at that point…

“We have got to rein in our out of control spending … we’ve also got to provide real relief to the millions of people hurting because of Obamacare. I think that needs to be the focus,” Cruz said. “I am hopeful that we will use every leverage point available to try and turn this country around and pull back from the fiscal and economic cliff we find ourselves in.”…

Sen. Jeff Flake argued that negotiations over the debt limit have been effective, resulting in spending reductions that Republicans want. Flake would not point to any one thing he’d like to see as part of a debt limit increase except to say “spending cuts.”

Does the GOP have any real leverage in the next debt-ceiling battle, though? There’s already a de facto “centrist caucus” of Republicans in the Senate who’ll vote with Reid to give him 60 votes in the event of any intractable brinksmanship. You know the names — McCain, Collins, Kirk, Murkowski, sometimes Graham, sometimes Isakson, etc. There are always six that Reid can get, which means the success of a debt-ceiling standoff next time depends entirely on Boehner’s resoluteness. Does … this sound like a man who’s ready to go to the mat for conservatives, knowing that hitting the debt limit and triggering a technical default would be more severe than shutting down the government was? Even if, miraculously, Senate Republicans held together and Reid couldn’t get to 60 votes, a debt-ceiling standoff would be the perfect time for him to nuke what’s left of the filibuster. “I’m doing it to save America from default,” he’d say, and the media would applaud. His party might even get a bounce from it in the polls. Not sure why so many congressional Republicans, including Paul Ryan, want to mislead grassroots righties about the debt ceiling now when we all know what the outcome will be.

Anyway, here’s Maverick engaged in his favorite pastime, i.e. congratulating himself for having more integrity than you. If he wanted to accuse his colleagues of lacking intellectual integrity, I don’t know why he seized on this business about not offering an alternative plan. The real reason they lack integrity is that most of them secretly agree that another shutdown should be avoided at all costs. Most voted no today purely because Reid didn’t need them to invoke cloture, leaving them free to impress conservatives by formally rejecting the deal. Whatever.


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Over

Bmore on December 18, 2013 at 9:02 AM

Republicans who vote for this budget deal without brain lack some intellectual integrity

J_Crater on December 18, 2013 at 9:11 AM

I believe it’s clear that our entire government regardless of party, refuses to follow the constitutional budget process.

oldroy on December 18, 2013 at 9:17 AM

This country is choking to death on the incompetence and duplicity of her leadership.

claudius on December 18, 2013 at 9:22 AM

Balanced budget amendment!

Why do the R’s not use this as a hammer. It polls well. And all these chumps care about is polls. Unfortunately the BBA takes power away from Washington.

kpguru on December 18, 2013 at 9:24 AM

Wow, McCain is criticizing conservatives (again)… what a maverick.

Add his voice to 95% of those in entertainment, journalism, academia, religious leaders, etc., etc., etc. Wait, I guess that doesn’t really make McCain a maverick after all, but merely a blindly following, mind numbed stooge.

shinty on December 18, 2013 at 9:29 AM

We need to fire them all ans start over. It’s beyond ridiculous.

EveGem on December 18, 2013 at 9:29 AM

Why do the R’s not use this as a hammer. It polls well. And all these chumps care about is polls. Unfortunately the BBA takes power away from Washington.

kpguru on December 18, 2013 at 9:24 AM

First, the GOP won’t pursue a balanced budget amendment because they don’t want to be forced to cut spending.

But, that doesn’t matter, because the problem with a balanced budget amendment is that it will only be used to raise taxes – not cut spending.

When push comes to shove, the GOP will cave and vote to increase taxes rather than cut spending and will argue they “had to” because of the BBA.

So, it will actually back-fire unless coupled with an amendment requiring a 2/3 vote or some-such to raise taxes.

Monkeytoe on December 18, 2013 at 9:29 AM

“…the GOP will cave…”

The culture does not have their back, and they know it.

shinty on December 18, 2013 at 9:35 AM

“…the GOP will cave…”

The culture does not have their back, and they know it.

shinty on December 18, 2013 at 9:35 AM

They have ceded the culture.

They never even try to educate people about why small government and free markets are better. They never even try to tell people this country is prosperous due to free markets, not big government.

Maybe because they don’t believe it themselves.

After all, Reagan did it – so they know it can be done.

DRayRaven on December 18, 2013 at 9:39 AM

All I want for Christmas is this RINO idiot to shut up and go away!

ultracon on December 18, 2013 at 9:58 AM

The very last thing that this blustery blowhard of a backstabber comprehends is the very concept of credibility!

Don L on December 18, 2013 at 10:03 AM

As much as I dislike & despise the current Potus, I am sure glad this traitorous duffus didn’t succeed in his bid for the office! He’s an embarrassment.

Boats48 on December 18, 2013 at 10:08 AM

“knowing that hitting the debt limit and triggering a technical default would be more severe than shutting down the government was?”

Allah continues to spew this non-truth. As long as we continue to believe that the only cure for overspending in the last 40 years is MORE SPENDING; we are lost. At least hitting a limit can begin the painful road to recovery.

kpguru on December 18, 2013 at 10:10 AM

“knowing that hitting the debt limit and triggering a technical default would be more severe than shutting down the government was?”

Allah continues to spew this non-truth. As long as we continue to believe that the only cure for overspending in the last 40 years is MORE SPENDING; we are lost. At least hitting a limit can begin the painful road to recovery.

kpguru on December 18, 2013 at 10:10 AM

Yeah, I meant to ask this last night as well.

AP, with all due respect, why do you keep saying that? It’s patently untrue.

Hitting the debt limit will in no way technically mean we are automatically ‘in default’. We bring in more than enough revenues to satisfy our debt obligations. There will be no default unless Obama decides – once we hit the ceiling – *decides*, of *his will*, to *make us* default.

Please, stop feeding the false meme. The Dems are pushing that dishonestly – if you repeat it and don’t know better, well – quit it. :)

If you repeat it after having been informed many, many times that it is incorrect, then that is… well, dishonest.

I respect you enough (yes, I do) to give you the benefit of the doubt on this. So… quit it. :)

Midas on December 18, 2013 at 10:17 AM

They have ceded the culture.

They never even try to educate people…

After all, Reagan did it – so they know it can be done.

DRayRaven on December 18, 2013 at 9:39 AM

Certainly some have made the effort, but can’t get through the static of hate and indifference from news and entertainment media, academia, etc.

How successful was Reagan in educating? He got some of his agenda through congress, but there was never a cultural sense that his Big Idea was correct.

The culture has devastated the conservative brand. The Tea Party has become a pariah. Limbaugh, FOX, Palin, those who take a meaningful stand for life and liberty see their reputations decimated by the culture.

Any residual popularity Reagan enjoys is not the result of converts to the philosophy of small government. Most who fondly recall Reagan’s economy chalk it up to his ability to inspire good feelings as anything else.

The GOP tend to be cowards because they know the culture (including arbiters of morality) don’t have their back.

shinty on December 18, 2013 at 10:27 AM

Said the creep who works for the democrats by also advocating that people vote for them. Congratulations, MOBY, you have screwed with a lot of weak minds.

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 10:57 PM

Apparently yours chief among them, f*ckwit.

Does it physically hurt to be so deranged, or do your meds – when you take them, that is – dull the pain?

Midas on December 18, 2013 at 10:38 AM

shinty on December 18, 2013 at 10:27 AM

I remember that Reagan made it so that having the word “liberal” attached to your name meant doom at the voting booth. He made “tax and spend” an epithet, as well…so much so that a hostile, Democrat Congress was forced to go along with his tax cuts.

It is true he could not shrink government to the extent that he wanted, but the American people were more supportive of spending and tax cuts than they are today.

DRayRaven on December 18, 2013 at 11:02 AM

Said the creep who works for the democrats by also advocating that people vote for them. Congratulations, MOBY, you have screwed with a lot of weak minds.

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 10:57 PM

Apparently yours chief among them, f*ckwit.

Does it physically hurt to be so deranged, or do your meds – when you take them, that is – dull the pain?

Midas on December 18, 2013 at 10:38 AM

What I find amusing is that he believes that not voting for the GOP = voting for the DNC. As if the GOP owns your vote and you have no right to do anything at all except vote for the GOP.

In reality, neither party represents my interests. I used to beleive that the GOP was trying to represent my interests, but the last 20 years have disabused me of that notion and I now realize that the GOP is actively working agianst my interests.

Despite that, clowns like this want me to still vote for the GOP because?? I guess because it matters who spends us into bankruptcy and increases the size of gov’t? Whether it is an “r” or a “d” that increases spending and gov’t matters because than we can say it was “our” team that put the final nail in the coffin?

Monkeytoe on December 18, 2013 at 11:14 AM

I really think McCain has been a dem plant from day one. He picked Sarah Palin as VP thinking it would tank the Republican ticket, when they surged, he suspended his campaign, guaranteeing a loss. How did AZ re-elect this putz?

ctmom on December 18, 2013 at 11:26 AM

As much as I dislike & despise the current Potus, I am sure glad this traitorous duffus didn’t succeed in his bid for the office! He’s an embarrassment.
Boats48 on December 18, 2013 at 10:08 AM

Ditto!!! The dems own everything now, but with critical help from RINOs like Collins, grahamnasty and McVain.

AH_C on December 18, 2013 at 11:36 AM

What I find amusing is that he believes that not voting for the GOP = voting for the DNC. As if the GOP owns your vote and you have no right to do anything at all except vote for the GOP.

Monkeytoe on December 18, 2013 at 11:14 AM

I’m not sure why these GOP apologists care who we vote for.

One minute they are insulting us, telling us how extreme and intransigent we are, and saying we’re expendable – and the next minute they are spitting-angry we won’t vote for them.

So do they need us or not?
Or do they really just want us to shut up and vote for them no matter what?

I know the answer to that, but even so…once Boehner pushes amnesty through the House, isn’t there supposed to be a flood of Latinos falling all over themselves to vote Republican in the next election? They are such natural Republicans and all…right?

From what I can tell, that means we’re free to vote Libertarian, Democrat, Constitution Party, or whatever. It shouldn’t matter.

I plan to take them up on it.

DRayRaven on December 18, 2013 at 11:50 AM

And exactly why should I care about what John McCain (D) thinks or says?

Over50 on December 18, 2013 at 12:46 PM

From what I can tell, that means we’re free to vote Libertarian, Democrat, Constitution Party, or whatever. It shouldn’t matter.

I plan to take them up on it.

DRayRaven on December 18, 2013 at 11:50 AM

You are missing the point. See, if you vote “r”, that proves you are conservative. It doesn’t matter what the republicans do once in office. As long as you voted “r” you can sleep soundly at night knowing you did your part for conservatism.

If you don’t vote “r”, the party that gains power will increase spending, increase the size of gov’t and pass new entitlement programs. Or, if you vote “r” and the republicans win, they will do that too – but then it ill be “our team” doing it so it’ll be o.k. because someday in the future, we can’t tell you when but they’ll know when the time is right, they’ll undo all of that stuff they did now to increase spending, entitlements and gov’t. We just have to trust them. they have a secret plan.

So, vote “r” because otherwise, you are not voting “r”.

Monkeytoe on December 18, 2013 at 1:22 PM

One minute they are insulting us, telling us how extreme and intransigent we are . . . .

DRayRaven on December 18, 2013 at 11:50 AM

Also, I love the new definition of intransigent: “not doing what I want you to do”.

I’m also perplexed at what is extreme about wanting to reduce spending or reduce the size and scope of gov’t.

I guess the new extreme is “actually believing in those things you say you believe in and acting in accordance with those beliefs”.

Because otherwise, what they are really saying is “it doesn’t matter what the GOP does, they are our tribe and we have to vote for them no matter what” and you saying you are not going to do that is “extreme”.

Monkeytoe on December 18, 2013 at 1:27 PM

DRayRaven

And you know what? I don’t see a whole hell of a lot of difference in public policy with Boehner running the House than what we’d have if Nancy Pelosi were still in charge.

He presides over a slim majority in 1/3rd of the government.

Sure, we have a lot of sturm and drang we wouldn’t otherwise have, but the outcome is about the same

Because he presides over a slim majority in 1/3rd of the government.

On the bright side, we wouldn’t have to listen to establishment types and their defenders whine about how they have to roll over on every single issue because they can’t govern from the House.

Establishment type = anyone who reminds you of reality. IE, He presides over a slim majority in 1/3rd of the government.

Since you mentioned Hillary, I honestly won’t care who wins the 2016 election if the GOP nominates one of its preferred candidates – like Chris Christie, Paul Ryan, or Jeb Bush. I could be persuaded to vote for a Rick Perry, a Ted Cruz, or a Rand Paul…but that’s it. Otherwise, I’m in the Libertarian camp.

So if you don’t get everything you want (everything given to you) you are going to take your bat and your ball and go home.

Assume much?
You know nothing about me other than what I post

Looks like I got it right.

V7_Sport on December 18, 2013 at 1:56 PM

Monkeytoe

What I find amusing is that he believes that not voting for the GOP = voting for the DNC. As if the GOP owns your vote and you have no right to do anything at all except vote for the GOP.

You are talking to someone (Midas )who has advocated voting for democrats as a “force multiplier”. What I find amusing is that so many of you have been duped into staying home or voting for the democrats and helping to elect socialists while you insist that you are doing it out of conservative principles. Actually it’s not amusing, it’s pathetic.

In reality, neither party represents my interests. I used to beleive that the GOP was trying to represent my interests, but the last 20 years have disabused me of that notion and I now realize that the GOP is actively working agianst my interests.

That’s fair, be upfront about it.

Despite that, clowns like this want me to still vote for the GOP because??

The GOP is, like it or not, the conservative party. If you separate conservatism from the GOP both will wither and the socialists will be put in charge. How many times do we need to learn that lesson?

V7_Sport on December 18, 2013 at 2:05 PM

Does it physically hurt to be so deranged, or do your meds – when you take them, that is – dull the pain?

Midas on December 18, 2013 at 10:38 AM

How much does Debbie Wasserman-Schultz pay you to dupe the rubes?

V7_Sport on December 18, 2013 at 2:06 PM

He presides over a slim majority in 1/3rd of the government.

I’m pretty sure Boehner & Cantor could gum up the works and extract concessions if the White House and Harry Reid didn’t know in advance he will cave on everything every time.

Looks like I got it right.

V7_Sport on December 18, 2013 at 1:56 PM

Not even close.

Even when the Republicans have the White House and both houses of Congress, they still increase spending and grow government.

The last time the GOP got serious about spending cuts, Reagan was in the White House.

DRayRaven on December 18, 2013 at 2:12 PM

Monkeytoe

You are an idiot. You are also treasonous because you advocate voting for a party that is increasing spending and bankrupting America. Why do you hate America? Why are you a traitor?

Also treasonous? So you acknowledge that it is treasonous to vote for the worst outcome…
I am not voting for the worst outcome, I am voting for people who pledge to cut the debt and spending, the is a lousy budget but again, the GOP has a slim majority in 1/3rd of the government. What you were insisting on is nothing short of magic and folks like you haven’t given then a lot to work with. It’s like you can’t see reality over your self indulgent, perpetual outrage.

Why do you love big gov’t and huge gob’t debt? Why? Why are you such a liberal that you want to do everything the liberals want, but as long as an “r” is somewhere in the vicinity, it is o.k. with you?

Nope, I just have grasped the reality that you don’t gain influence by throwing elections to the opposition.

Why do you hate America V7_Sport? Why do you hate America so much that you are trying to bankrupt her by voting for more spending and bigger gov’t?

I’m not the one who has advocated voting for the democrats to hasten the distraction of the country, the fellow you have butted in on behalf of is.

V7_Sport on December 18, 2013 at 2:16 PM

Shut up, McCain.

joecollins on December 18, 2013 at 2:17 PM

DRayRaven

I’m pretty sure Boehner & Cantor could gum up the works and extract concessions if the White House and Harry Reid didn’t know in advance he will cave on everything every time.

They could shut down the government… and have the entire name for it put on them by an ignorant public by a corrupt press. What else do you have? What else can they do?

Even when the Republicans have the White House and both houses of Congress, they still increase spending and grow government.

That’s the other side of the equation, elect the best people you can get and then hold their feet to the fire. Staying home, splitting the party or voting democrat does none of the above.

V7_Sport on December 18, 2013 at 2:21 PM

When the hyenas run the whole zoo.

Murphy9 on December 18, 2013 at 2:59 PM

They could shut down the government… and have the entire name for it put on them by an ignorant public by a corrupt press. What else do you have? What else can they do?

…elect the best people you can get and then hold their feet to the fire. Staying home, splitting the party or voting democrat does none of the above.

V7_Sport on December 18, 2013 at 2:21 PM

Agreed, V7.

Further, the GOP will need phenomenal margins of victory and control to be effective.

Because they know the culture has the long knives out for the GOP and conservatives in particular. To overcome they’ll need huge support at the ballot box.

shinty on December 18, 2013 at 3:31 PM

If there’s one thing John is an expert on, it is a lack of intellectual integrity.

Another Drew on December 18, 2013 at 5:41 PM

Just complete the danged fence.

David Blue on December 18, 2013 at 7:05 PM

I guess McCain learned all of this name calling from his Vietnamese captors.

Sherman1864 on December 18, 2013 at 10:20 PM

So you acknowledge that it is treasonous to vote for the worst outcome…

No, I acknowledge that it is treasonous to vote for a party that increases debt, increases gov’t and increases entitlements. Taht is the GOP. All you can do is throw out straw men and dishonesty. You are such a liberal hack.

I am not voting for the worst outcome, I am voting for people who pledge to cut the debt and spending, the is a lousy budget but again, the GOP has a slim majority in 1/3rd of the government. What you were insisting on is nothing short of magic and folks like you haven’t given then a lot to work with. It’s like you can’t see reality over your self indulgent, perpetual outrage.

You truly are delusional. The GOP has promised to cut spending for 30 years and has increased spending for 30 years. Even when they had a majority in the house, senate and had the WH. YOu can’t refute a single one of my points so you resort to dishonest, straw men and cliches. you are delusional, dishonest and traitorous. Why do you hate America? Seriously?

Why do you love big gov’t and huge gob’t debt? Why? Why are you such a liberal that you want to do everything the liberals want, but as long as an “r” is somewhere in the vicinity, it is o.k. with you?

Nope, I just have grasped the reality that you don’t gain influence by throwing elections to the opposition.

You think that voting for the GOP no matter what they do gains you influence?

My, talk about stupid. Have you no ability to grasp logic.

I ask again – explain to me how doing the same thing you have always done is going to obtain different results?

You have an inability to understand the idea of tactics or strategy. You believe being a blind party loyalist is a strategy. That’s idiotic.

You are a party shill. Nothing more. You are not conservative in any way. Which makes you an America hater who wants big gov’t and debt spending. You can’t have it both ways. If you vote for a party that increases gov’t and spending – that means you want increased gov’t and spending. You can’t claim you want something different than what you vote for.

To do so is the height of dishonesty. to argue “I want smaller gov’t and less spending so I am going to vote for a party that increases gov’t and spending” is completely and utterly dishonest.

You are, for all practical purposes, voting for liberalism.

Monkeytoe on December 19, 2013 at 8:12 AM

They could shut down the government… and have the entire name for it put on them by an ignorant public by a corrupt press. What else do you have? What else can they do?

…elect the best people you can get and then hold their feet to the fire. Staying home, splitting the party or voting democrat does none of the above.

V7_Sport on December 18, 2013 at 2:21 PM

Agreed, V7.

Further, the GOP will need phenomenal margins of victory and control to be effective.

Because they know the culture has the long knives out for the GOP and conservatives in particular. To overcome they’ll need huge support at the ballot box.

shinty on December 18, 2013 at 3:31 PM

Do you people even realize when you are being dishonest and using straw men?

Because the ONLY options were a) shut down the gov’t or b) increase spending, give Harry Reid more power and increase user fees.

Those were the ONLY options. they could not have done anything else. There were no other potential things that could be done!!!!

And once they have a majority in the Senate, then they’ll be conservative!!!!! History has disproven this, but we’ll keep saying it. We are blind party loyalists who don’t care about facts or logic!!!

Monkeytoe on December 19, 2013 at 8:14 AM

That’s the other side of the equation, elect the best people you can get and then hold their feet to the fire. Staying home, splitting the party or voting democrat does none of the above.

V7_Sport on December 18, 2013 at 2:21 PM

Dishonest, yet again.

Look – you can argue you disagree with the tactic. that is fine. But that is not what you have chosen to do. You have chosen instead to dishonestly claim that not voting does nothing and has no tactical thought behind it. Which is completely moronic (and, again, like everything with you – dishonest).

If conservatives stayed home en masse – it would demonstrate a point to the GOP. The GOP would have to realize that it either had to move right and appease conservatives or decide to be honest about its politics and stop pretending to be conservative and give up on getting conservative votes.

So, the GOP’s choice would be to continue to be the liberal party it is or actually become the more conservative party that it pretends to be.

That is a tactic. Again, you may disagree with the tactic on the grounds that the dems would win an election by use of the tactic. But to claim it is not a tactic and would have no effect is, again, either completely ignorant or completely dishonest.

Now, I have argued repeatedly that doing what we have always done and voting for the GOP no matter what they do will only result in the GOP continuing to be a big-gov’t, big spending, liberal party.

You have offered nothing but idiotic cliches in response.

I have pointed out that while trying to change the GOP through primaries, etc. (which, by the way, people like you also argue against doing – making your claims for wanting conservative results absurd) in practice accomplishes almost nothing in terms of moving the party right and to the extent it slowly moves the party right will take upwards of 50 years to achieve anything significant.

Again, you respond to this with nothing but idiotic cliches.

The entirety of your response to these arguments is as follows:

—– “you hate america”

—– “but the dems will win”

That’s it. That is your entire argument in response. And yet you believe you are making some point?

No shit the dems will like win one election cycle if conservatives sit out en masse.

The reality is that does not matter as much as you seem to believe. The GOP is not going to repeal Obamacare if it wins the Senate in 2014 (first, Obama is still president, second – both Boehner and McConnell have stated publicly that they do not intend repeal, only “fixes”). The GOP is not going to reduce spending (they have made that pretty clear over the last 30 years). The GOP is not going to reduce the size or scope of gov’t (ditto, plus Obama is still president). The GOP is not going to cut any entitlement programs (ditto, plus Obama is still president).

In contrast, the dems will do some things they otherwise wouldn’t have had the chance to do. They will pass amnesty (but the GOP would also anyway). They will increase spending (oh, but so would the GOP). They will pass some other laws we won’t like and appoint people we won’t like (Obama is going to do that regardless).

So, it is not the life-ending, world-shattering loss you claim if the dems keep the senate and even potentially gain the house.

In the meantime, if conservatives sitting out an election cycle moves the GOP to the right, in 2016, if the GOP can win the WH, we may see some actual conservative agenda moving forward, which we otherwise are never going to see.

So, the actual choice here is empower the GOP to remain the same big-sending, big-gov’t party it always has been for the foreseeable future or attempt to force the GOP to move right.

You are choosing the former. I chose the latter.

Monkeytoe on December 19, 2013 at 8:28 AM

In reality, neither party represents my interests. I used to beleive that the GOP was trying to represent my interests, but the last 20 years have disabused me of that notion and I now realize that the GOP is actively working agianst my interests.

That’s fair, be upfront about it

.

When have I not been upfront abuot that? It is you with your blind party loyalty while pretending to be conservative that is dishonest.

Despite that, clowns like this want me to still vote for the GOP because??

The GOP is, like it or not, the conservative party. If you separate conservatism from the GOP both will wither and the socialists will be put in charge. How many times do we need to learn that lesson?

Once again, dishonest and ignorant. Please cite me the conservative things the GOP has actually done. Not the promises they make – the things they have actually done.

In contrast, I will cite for you the liberal things they have done:

- they always increase spending;
- they enacted No Child Left Behind
- they enacted Medicare Plan B
- they attempted to pass amnesty;
- they are again going to attempt to pass amnesty;
- they just gave Harry Reid more power (in the Ryan compromise)
- they call conservatives names
- they say they want to defeat conservatives
- they back non-conservative candidates in conservative states/districts
- again – they always increase spending
- they have never eliminated a single gov’t program or entitlement;
- they have never eliminated a single gov’t agency

If you honestly claim the GOP is a “conservative party” you are truly ignorant. The GOP was not created as a conservative party and has never been a conservative party.

Instead, the GOP has conservatives in the party. That does not make it a conservative party. The GOP is slightly to the right of the DNC in its actions. In its talk, the GOP is significantly to the right of the DNC. But talk is cheap and action is what actually tells us where the party is.

I truly feel sorry for you if you actually believe the GOP is a “conservative party”. Because that is terribly stupid.

And, again, your only argument is “but the dems will win”. That does not remotely respond to my arguments. As I said in another comment, no shit.

You are truly a party loyalist. You don’t even know why you support the party. It’s like you are a sports fan. It’s your team and you don’t care what the team does you are going to root for it blindly. That is just sad. You have turned your mind off and don’t care about anything but party identification.

Monkeytoe on December 19, 2013 at 8:39 AM

He presides over a slim majority in 1/3rd of the government.

So how do you explain the GOP’s actions from 2000 – 2006.

and, do you ever expect teh GOP to act conservative? If so, when?

Apparently, we have to blindly support the GOP while it acts liberal until it holds 75% of the house, 75% of the Senate and the WH. Then it will magically act conservative, right?

You are absurd.

Blind party loyalty is treasonous at best.

Monkeytoe on December 19, 2013 at 8:45 AM

Re. Monkeytoe on December 19, 2013 at 8:12 AM

No, I acknowledge that it is treasonous to vote for a party that increases debt, increases gov’t and increases entitlements. Taht is the GOP.

None of that is in the GOP platform… I tried to inform you about this stuff on another thread. If individuals have done that they were not acting congruently with the political philosophy they have affiliated themselves with.

All you can do is throw out straw men and dishonesty.

Psychological projection much? Look, You obviously want to be angry, you should just inform yourself as to who to be angry with. That wasn’t an attack, but when you don’t know the difference between the GOP and the RNC and that you can join either and have a say on how they do business you are just like a crayoning baby that can’t articulate what it wants or how to get it.

The GOP has promised to cut spending for 30 years and has increased spending for 30 years.

Under a GOP congress we had a balanced budget as recently as 2000. Are you old enough to remember that far back?

YOu can’t refute a single one of my points so you resort to dishonest, straw men and cliches.

I’ve addressed all of what you have written, here and elsewhere. I think you have a chip on his shoulder and and need to assert how brilliant you are even while you are showing that you can be manipulated into doing what is in the exact opposite of what outcome you profess to desire.

you are delusional, dishonest and traitorous. Why do you hate America? Seriously?

I’m not the one who has vowed to vote for democrats to hasten the demise of the country, that is the idiot who’s side you took on a previous thread. I’m actually going to stop addressing you line by line at this point because you too have shown yourself to be not worth it and incapable of actually addressing what I have written in a substantive way.
Here:
You don’t gain influence by losing elections. That is obvious. You may think that by being extra-extra-extra clever you can somehow change that fact, but you can’t. You try to get the best, electable candidate nominated and then you work to hold that person accountable.

Try to break that , concentrate on that. Forget the insults and psycobabble, tell me how that is wrong. If you can’t, then maybe you need to reexamine the whole coming to the defense of people who advocate voting for democrats to deliberately hasten the destruction of the country so that they may rule over the rubble strategy.. because that’s just moronic.

V7_Sport on December 20, 2013 at 10:21 PM

Re. Monkeytoe

Do you people even realize when you are being dishonest and using straw men?

Are you trying to be ironic here?

Because the ONLY options were a) shut down the gov’t or b) increase spending, give Harry Reid more power and increase user fees.

What was door #3? Do tell?

Once again, dishonest and ignorant.

Overcompensate much? This is an awesome strategy you have.. declaring everything too be “dishonest and ignorant” and then showing yourself completely incapable of calmly, truthfully, refuting what was written.
Have at it monkeyboy:
You don’t gain influence by losing elections. That is obvious. You may think that by being extra-extra-extra clever you can somehow change that fact, but you can’t. You try to get the best, electable candidate nominated and then you work to hold that person accountable.

V7_Sport on December 20, 2013 at 10:35 PM

You don’t gain influence by losing elections. That is obvious.

V7_Sport on December 20, 2013 at 10:35 PM

The GOP establishment thinks otherwise. That’s why it throws elections when a conservative candidate wins.

It advocates party unity when a leftist “moderate” candidate wins. That is to reduce the influence of the right, and add to the power of the left.

When someone betrays you, and you vote for them anyway, they own you. You cannot hold them accountable; they have already called your bluff.

David Blue on December 20, 2013 at 11:22 PM

David Blue

The GOP establishment thinks otherwise.

What is this “GOP establishment” you speak of.

That’s why it throws elections when a conservative candidate wins.

Nonsense. What, specifically, is this “establishment” that you are referring to? Lots of crazy ideas here about that..

V7_Sport on December 21, 2013 at 5:21 AM

Take a poll outside the Counties around DC, it’s a different world outside the BeltWay. John, where were you when the was no budget for five years? The RHINO that you are probably went along with your political across the aisle buddies and thought nothing wrong with it what so ever.

mixplix on December 21, 2013 at 6:00 PM

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