Paul Ryan on the budget deal: Hey, we might fight on the debt ceiling instead

posted at 11:41 am on December 16, 2013 by Allahpundit

The key bit runs from 5:45 to 7:15. My pal Karl asks a good question:

The whole point of the budget deal, I thought, was to defuse a political landmine in the GOP’s path to the midterms. Take away the possibility of another shutdown, the thinking went, and you’re taking away an ace in the hole that desperate red-state Dems might otherwise play to save their seats next November. Mission accomplished. Except now Ryan’s saying that hitting the debt ceiling, which everyone understands would be far more damaging economically than a shutdown, is still in the picture if Republicans don’t have their as-yet-unspecified demands met. Krazy kwestion: Having folded at the last minute in a debt-ceiling standoff more than once before, why would the GOP’s threats be taken seriously this time? They just caved on the budget in order to avoid any new brinksmanship that might come back to haunt them in the midterms. Now Ryan’s vowing … much more dangerous brinksmanship early next year? Does anyone, starting with Obama and Harry Reid, think they GOP will stand firm this time knowing what sort of political backlash it could inspire?

Their plan, I guess, is to lie low for now and then take stock of ObamaCare’s status next month. Maybe Healthcare.gov will be running smoothly, insurers will be up to speed in processing applications, and middle-class people whose insurance was taken away in the name of booting them onto more expensive O-Care plans will have magically made peace with their predicament. Or maybe Healthcare.gov will have new technical problems due to the payment system not having been built yet, insurers will be overwhelmed by the combo of backlogged applications and HHS’s endless half-assed seat-of-their-pants “fixes,” and new O-Care enrollees will be up in arms over their new deductibles and shrinking provider networks. In that case, the GOP might conclude — maybe not unreasonably — that O and his caucus will be so frazzled by ObamaCare screw-ups and what it might mean for the midterms that they might agree to some sort of delay. What that delay would look like, though I have no idea; the more people who sign up, the more impossible a mid-enrollment-period delay becomes. Even a popular GOP demand, like agreeing to scale back the “risk corridor” provisions in the law so that HHS can’t bail out insurers, could cause chaos if Dems acquiesced in it now. I think they and O have already passed the point of no return on ObamaCare. Which is great news for the GOP insofar as it means their opponents are fully committed to stay the course through next year’s havoc all the way up to the midterms. But it also means that O’s unlikely to make any debt-ceiling deals.

Maybe Ryan knows that and the point of the next round of brinksmanship is simply to make the Landrieus and Pryors in the Senate squirm by forcing them to either stick by the O-Care clusterfark or humiliate O by voting with the GOP. If nothing else, once Republicans do cave, they can use it as a campaign commercial for their audience of grassroots righties to illustrate why it’s so important to get the Senate back in GOP hands in 2015.


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Excuses, excuses, excuses. Weak TEA.

Bmore on December 16, 2013 at 9:35 PM

gryphon202

Bullshit. At best you are a coward.

Fun being anonymous, huh. I have told you the truth and answered all your questions, you have ducked mine and had a tantrum. Is that cowardly or just immature?

” I’m beginning to come around to the view that you may very well be a sock puppet trolling the commentariat for some political house organ”

Sock puppet? I only have the one account, you aren’t making any sense. I am just representing common sense.

Beat that straw man, Butch. Show me where I ever said anything about voting for Democrats.

Midas suggested that it would be a good idea. You sucked right up to him, even though he is trolling this site to get weak minded conservatives to stay home or vote dem. When you chant “The outcome will be the same no matter what” that means that you should vote for the republicans? Check your message there kid.

Doing an end-run around congress =/= voting for Democrats.

You missed that federal law trumps state law thing…

By the way, what was that you were saying upthread about 2+2?

Tilt your head back and read. Conservatives don’t ask for help unless they need it.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 9:40 PM

Conservatives don’t ask for help unless they need it.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 9:40 PM

So tell me again why you’re depending on the GOP to police itself?

Heh.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 9:44 PM

Third party.

SparkPlug on December 16, 2013 at 9:45 PM

I’m for the gryphon party.

SparkPlug on December 16, 2013 at 9:46 PM

AH_C

Really? That’s what the fencesitters said during the writing of the declaration of independence. ’AH_C on December 16, 2013 at 8:51 PM

So you can find some reference to that in a history book…. I’ll check back.They were resigned to the status quo and hoping to survive it without risking anything.

The status quo is Obama and the democrats. This is because in the face of an outright socialist 4.1 million fewer Republicans voted in 2008 than in 2004 and millions more stayed at home in 2012. Thanks for advocating for the status quo.

Stop! This is where I draw the line.’

More to the point, how do you draw this line? By empowering this who are doing what you supposedly object to? By giving them free reign?
V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 9:03 PM

Well, I don’t recall seeing your handle before, so either you’re a sockpuppet or longtime lurked. However even a longtime lurker wouldn’t have asked the first question. I won’t do your homework. You can Google this: “site: hotair.com + AH_C +Whigs” and find plenty to catch up on.

Bottomline I had enough of craven putzes like Ryan, McVain, Grahamnasty and other RINOs. I. Will. Not. Vote. For. The. Lesser. Of. Two. Evil. Beings. Period. I will vote For the conservative. I will write in. I will vote For the 3rd party but never for a rino. Don’t like it? Too bad because in my district, my vote counts exactly the same as yours even if we don’t get the same desired outcome. IOW, it’s my vote and I can play keep away from the RINOs if I want to. I have 5 kids and I’m training them well. In the next election, there will be 2 votes kept away from RINOs and every cycle after that yet another keep away vote. Eventually we WILL reach critical mass and destroy the GOPe.

AH_C on December 16, 2013 at 9:46 PM

gryphon202

And with “allies” like you all we are going to get are Republicans. What’s your point?

For the most part, you’re welcome.

What you and Karl Rove do in the privacy of the bedroom is your own damn business.

So that’s it? instead of looking at what I wrote and addressing it in a substantive way, that’s the best you can do.

I’m not interested, as I don’t swing that way.

You swing whatever way the echo chamber swings you. Really, if you can’t articulate an intelligent rebuttal you are not an authentic conservative to begin with. If you are letting he crowd do your thinking you aren’t an authentic conservative. You are just aping the mannerisms and you are being duped by people who want to see conservatism fail.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 9:47 PM

And by the way, if you don’t like the ‘circular firing squad’, stop stepping between conservatives and the Democrats.

Try joining us – remember, the ones responsible for the only significant GOP win in recent history – rather than standing up, defending the Democrats, and opening fire on us.

Just sayin.

Midas on December 16, 2013 at 9:49 PM

You swing whatever way the echo chamber swings you. Really, if you can’t articulate an intelligent rebuttal you are not an authentic conservative to begin with. If you are letting he crowd do your thinking you aren’t an authentic conservative. You are just aping the mannerisms and you are being duped by people who want to see conservatism fail.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 9:47 PM

You don’t get to define conservatism for me, Squish. I don’t give a flying fig how much you enjoy being fellated by career politicians. It’s just not my thing.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 9:50 PM

So I’m just blowing in the wind, eh ladies and gentlemen? I didn’t realize nullification was so popular and such a progressive/Democrat cause celebre. LOLOLOL Sock puppet gonna sock puppet!

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 9:56 PM

So we’ve got at least one moron on this very thread who equates conservatism with voting Republican. And somehow we’re supposed to feel ashamed of ourselves with not falling in line. Does this pass the smell test?

/SniffSniff

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 9:58 PM

AH_C

Well, I don’t recall seeing your handle before, so either you’re a sockpuppet or longtime lurked.

I was, under a different user name that got deleted, one of the original members of this site. I don’t post often lately because I am disgusted that there are so many of you who seem to be willing to let the country fail in the hopes of ruling over the rubble. This is the USA, still the last best hope for humanity. I took an oath once to defend and uphold it once, I never thought it would be from people who claim to want the same things I do.

I won’t do your homework. You can Google this: “site: hotair.com + AH_C +Whigs” and find plenty to catch up on.

Not that in love with your words. You can address what I wrote or not.

Bottomline I had enough of craven putzes like Ryan, McVain, Grahamnasty and other RINOs.

How many of them are in your state?

I. Will. Not. Vote. For. The. Lesser. Of. Two. Evil. Beings. Period.

Than you will not vote, period. Ever. Anywhere. Every vote ever made has been a compromise. The last and only perfect person humanity encountered we nailed to a cross.
Meanwhile, the people who oppose you haven such limitations as to their political expression.

I will vote For the conservative. I will write in.

Because if they tell you that they are a conservative they are, and Christine O’donnell is a wise choice, always.

Don’t like it? Too bad….

You have made yourself irrelevant. Don’t like it? Too bad.

it’s my vote and I can play keep away from the RINOs if I want to

“So there. You aren’t the boss of me and you aren’t so big and I’ll hold my breath until I get cake for dinner….”

I have 5 kids and I’m training them well.

They won’t have a country.

“Eventually we WILL reach critical mass and destroy the GOPe.”

And replace it with the democrats.. Or even worse. Not smart.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 10:01 PM

Third party.

SparkPlug on December 16, 2013 at 9:45 PM

Sockpuppet. ~,~

Bmore on December 16, 2013 at 10:02 PM

Re.Midas

And by the way, if you don’t like the ‘circular firing squad’, stop stepping between conservatives and the Democrats.

You are a democrat, you have advocated for voting for Obama.

Try joining us –

You are a lying POS.

the ones responsible for the only significant GOP win in recent history –

You are a democrat, you want Obama to win. You aren’t fooling anyone with a triple digit IQ. Go die.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 10:05 PM

LOL, yeah, *I’m* trolling the site.

You know, the establishment shills last week were telling conservatives they weren’t needed, and *should* stay home – that the GOP didn’t need them, etc.

Those guys are gone, but new guy is here to tell us quite the opposite – back to the ‘vote for GOP because – omg, Democrats!’.

Interesting.

V7, you mentioned Reagan earlier, by the way. If you’ll remember, he used to be a Democrat, and when they ‘left him’ as he put it, he didn’t keep voting Democrat out of blind misguided loyalty.

I’ve not recommended to anyone that they should vote Democrat, just pointed out that doing so would carry more weight than simply sitting out.

Though I have voted GOP since 1984 when I was very proud to be able to vote for Reagan in my first eligible election, I will not vote GOP again for the foreseeable future.

Whether I choose to vote Democrat as a ‘force multiplier’ of sorts remains to be seen. I assure you, though, the more the GOP establishment folks openly insult conservatives, seek to destroy us and the representatives we have sent to DC, seek to work with the Democrats to destroy the country through increased spending, funding Obamacare, taxes, amnesty, and more – they more they make me want to find more ways to help ensure they are destroyed.

I hate the Democrats with a burning passion – but at least they try to stab me openly, and from the front. I will continue to work on them, but it’s gotten to the point where I think I have to focus on the guy who is supposed to be on my side but is stabbing me in the *back*, *first*.

And the GOP seems like they want to daily push me further in that direction.

Now, kindly go f*ck yourself.

Midas on December 16, 2013 at 10:05 PM

You are a democrat, you want Obama to win. PM

Anyone who’s been here more than 2 hours ‘knows’ me, and likewise knows that you’re full of shit. You’re one of the most clueless f*cks of all the clueless f*cks that stumble in here to post, and that’s quite an accomplishment.

You aren’t fooling anyone with a triple digit IQ.

I’ve apparently fooled you into thinking I support Obama, without even trying, LOL. What’s that say about you, chump?

By the way, Obama’s not on the ballot anymore, so how you leaped to this particular conclusion, well – doesn’t speak well for *your* IQ.

Go die.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 10:05

After you. I insist.

Midas on December 16, 2013 at 10:10 PM

Re the other Diva…

You don’t get to define conservatism for me, Squish.

Sure I do, idiot:
con·ser·va·tism noun \kən-ˈsər-və-ˌti-zəm\
a political philosophy based on tradition and social stability, stressing established institutions, and preferring gradual development to abrupt change; specifically : such a philosophy calling for lower taxes, limited government regulation of business and investing, a strong national defense, and individual financial responsibility for personal needs (as retirement income or health-care coverage)

I don’t give a flying fig how much you enjoy being fellated by career politicians.

When you run out of chants and bumper stickers you default back to homosexuality and fellatio… It’s telling but it’s not a counterargument.

So I’m just blowing in the wind, eh ladies and gentlemen?

The lady doth protest too much.

So we’ve got at least one moron on this very thread who equates conservatism with voting Republican.

Where?

And somehow we’re supposed to feel ashamed of ourselves with not falling in line

You have absolutely fallen in line. You have also been jerked around by your insecurities and ignorance.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 10:12 PM

Midas on December 16, 2013 at 10:05 PM

Very well said, indeed, Midas.

thatsafactjack on December 16, 2013 at 10:13 PM

I don’t recall evah seeing v7 numbnut ever before.

Another AP sockpoppet?

Pretty weak. Keeps saying we are somehow going to vote dem.

First I’ve ever heard the username.

wolly4321 on December 16, 2013 at 10:17 PM

We haven’t had an enrollment in years,, and boom,

A new concern troll… hmmm.

wolly4321 on December 16, 2013 at 10:20 PM

“Hey, we might fight on the debt ceiling instead”

…or we might give gleefully raise the debt ceiling, increasing spending, and fire up the printing presses, all while telling you guys we made dramatic spending cuts that mean the salvation of the nation, starting a mere 10 years from now. Don’t forget to contribute to my buddies campaign so we can continue the fight! *wink wink*

Daikokuco on December 16, 2013 at 10:20 PM

re.Midas

You know, the establishment shills last week were telling conservatives they weren’t needed, and *should* stay home – that the GOP didn’t need them, etc.

Who is this establishment?

Those guys are gone, but new guy is here to tell us quite the opposite – back to the ‘vote for GOP because – omg, Democrats!’.

You have told people to vote for Obama, you are a democrat Moby. And a liar.

I’ve not recommended to anyone that they should vote Democrat, just pointed out that doing so would carry more weight than simply sitting out.

You wrote:

Every person who used to vote GOP and decides to stay home sends the GOP a 1 vote message.

Every one of *those* people who decide to vote Democrat instead, leverages that message to 2 votes.

Midas

So you are lying.

Though I have voted GOP since 1984 when I was very proud to be able to vote for Reagan in my first eligible election,

I simply don’t believe you.

I will not vote GOP again for the foreseeable future.

Of course not, you are an obama loving socialist parasite who has no job and nothing to do but sit on the web and screw with the dim witted to maximize your benefits and help further wreck the country.

Whether I choose to vote Democrat as a ‘force multiplier’ of sorts remains to be seen.

You will, you are a democrat.

I assure you, though, the more the GOP establishment folks

Where is this “establishment”?

openly insult conservatives,

You aren’t a conservative, you are a Moby. A democrat liar.

I hate the Democrats with a burning passion –

Yet you advocate voting for them, yeah, you are a liar.

I will continue to work on them

FOR them you mean, you will continue to work FOR the democrats.

but it’s gotten to the point where I think I have to focus on the guy who is supposed to be on my side but is stabbing me in the *back*, *first*.

How dramatic.

Now, kindly go f*ck yourself.

Stay classy, Moby. Enjoy the fruits of my tax check, parasite.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 10:22 PM

Trench-stabber sock puppet. wtfe its nom was.

Murphy9 on December 16, 2013 at 10:24 PM

eva3071

Murphy9 on December 16, 2013 at 10:25 PM

Re.Moby

Anyone who’s been here more than 2 hours

Should get a job? Yes, you should get a job, other than advocating that conservatives vote for Obama.

‘knows’ me, and likewise knows that you’re full of shit

Then they would know that you are a crass half whit as well as a moby liar.

I’ve apparently fooled you into thinking I support Obama, without even trying, LOL.

You do, you are advocating voting for him, that is support, idiot.

By the way, Obama’s not on the ballot anymore,

You brought it up…Guess you will have to settle for pimping Clinton to the easily confused here. Seriously, drop dead.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 10:27 PM

Clicked on your name.

Were you a naval aviator, like mccain?

wolly4321 on December 16, 2013 at 10:27 PM

V7, you a Guzzi enthusiast? If so, maybe you have some redeeming value, but you come across as a massive statist with a huge boner for federal power. Not a good thing. You might very well be a true conservative, in that you value entrenched political interests (the status quo) over principles (the people who will not vote for big spending statist scumbags no matter the letter beside their name or who they meet with for cocktails). If thats what “conservative” means to you, then most of the people you are trying to criticize would be proud not to be.

Daikokuco on December 16, 2013 at 10:28 PM

Were you a naval aviator, like mccain?

wolly4321

Like him, my father, grandfather.. Is that supposed to be something to be ashamed of because John McCain was one as well?

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 10:29 PM

^Although V7, I think you’re probably right about the Midas guy, since the idea of voting democrat to signal to the Republicans that they need to be more conservative is downright retarded.

Daikokuco on December 16, 2013 at 10:31 PM

Daikokuco

V7, you a Guzzi enthusiast? If so, maybe you have some redeeming value, but you come across as a massive statist with a huge boner for federal power. Not a good thing.

You got that from “I’m a conservative. A patriot. I want small government that is more accountable to the people. I want government to be a little scared of it’s citizenry. I want it to respect the people it represents.” right? Or was it when I told the Moby that it was a bad idea for conservatives to be voting for Obama, you read that as being a statist… At least I like Guzzis.

You might very well be a true conservative, in that you value entrenched political interests (the status quo) over principles (the people who will not vote for big spending statist scumbags no matter the letter beside their name or who they meet with for cocktails).

Did you read a word I wrote?

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 10:33 PM

eva3071 Murphy9 on December 16, 2013 at 1

I missed that one last open enrollment, too.

All these sleeper cells. hung out under the radar for 2 years.

wolly4321 on December 16, 2013 at 10:33 PM

^Although V7, I think you’re probably right about the Midas guy, since the idea of voting democrat to signal to the Republicans that they need to be more conservative is downright retarded.

Daikokuco on December 16, 2013 at 10:31 PM

Thank heavens, there’s one…

With that, Good Night.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 10:36 PM

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 10:22 PM

“Bwaaaawk! The Establishment is your savior! Bwaaaawk! The status quo is the way forward! Bwaaaawk!”

Dunedainn on December 16, 2013 at 10:38 PM

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 10:36 PM

“Bwaaaawk! V7′s a pretty bird, a pretty bird! Bwaaaawk! Hello! Hello!”

Dunedainn on December 16, 2013 at 10:39 PM

“Bwaaaawk! The Establishment is your savior! Bwaaaawk! The status quo is the way forward! Bwaaaawk!”

Dunedainn on December 16, 2013 at 10:38 PM

Where is this “establishment”
It’s just a straw man used to herd the gullible.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 10:39 PM

You have absolutely fallen in line. You have also been jerked around by your insecurities and ignorance.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 10:12 PM

Yes, because nullification is so progressive. And so popular. And it’ll so help the Dems./

/ptooey

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 10:40 PM

It’s just a straw man used to herd the gullible.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 10:39 PM

“Bwaaaawk! Strawman! Bwaaaawk! ‘Purist’ isn’t a strawman! Bwaaaawk! Pretty bird, pretty bird! *whistle*”

Dunedainn on December 16, 2013 at 10:40 PM

him, my father, grandfather.. Is that supposed to be something to be ashamed of because John McCain was one as well? V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 10:29

Only if you degenerate into what he has become, which you show evidence of.

wolly4321 on December 16, 2013 at 10:41 PM

Where is this “establishment”
It’s just a straw man used to herd the gullible.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 10:39 PM

So is your assertion that my push for nullification helps dems. Care to explain to us unenlightened quasi-progressive rubes just how nullification helps the Democrat party?

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 10:43 PM

where is this “establishment” It’s just a straw man used to herd the gullible. V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 10:39 PM

You flucking fool.

I don’t need to say anymore.

Read it folks.

wolly4321 on December 16, 2013 at 10:46 PM

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 10:33 PM

The situation is, what is the value in voting for Republicans who behave exactly like democrats. Maybe they aren’t Warren and Murray levels of stupid (though the Ryan-Murray deal would call even that assumption into question), but they are bad enough. And even in places where democrats DO control everything, their party splinters into factions and lo and behold you get half the party acting exactly like the “RINO”s like Boehner and Ryan and Graham and Mccain. They still go all in on 95% of tax hikes, and spending insanity, but maybe they like blowing money on the military more, or maybe they have some restraint about that other 5% of spending. You saw it with Rahm in Chicago against the unions, Cuomo in New York. They are the EXACT same as Chris Christie, but with a different letter by their name. Even in California, Moonbeam shot down his legislature’s even-more-retarded gun control measure.

Do I like democrats, hell no. I dislike them so much, that all the Republicans that are so similar, and differ only on superficial overhyped BS, look exactly the same and I despise them as well.

I don’t really fear democrats having all 3 chambers, because “they” already do. That is, big-spending, statists who have no respect for individual liberty, privacy, or fkin NOT spending other people’s money. Doesn’t matter that the democrats include some guys who call themselves republicans. They are all the same thing whatever they call themselves.

I like the philosophy of “don’t vote, it only encourages them.” Or vote for somebody who reflects your principles. Maybe that route, eventually that 5 or 10% of defiant voters will have to have their concerns addressed in a real manner? None of this BS platitudes to small government that come on the campaign trail and disappear the second the slimey SOB steps off the plane in DC.

Daikokuco on December 16, 2013 at 10:49 PM

So is your assertion that my push for nullification helps dems. Care to explain to us unenlightened quasi-progressive rubes just how nullification helps the Democrat party?

gryphon202

For the 3rd time, federal law trumps state law, what you call nullification doesn’t do anything.

You flucking fool.

So where is this establishment? What is it that they do exactly to thwart your wishes?

I don’t need to say anymore.
wolly4321

That has’t stopped you. Where/who is this establishment and how have they injured you?

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 10:50 PM

And replace it with the democrats.. Or even worse. Not smart.
V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 10:01 PM

Not smart is laying there and hoping for a kiss in the morning and that this time it’s for reals.

You’re the crap. Squatting down in the red bucket trying to stop others from leaving before you get flash steamed. Unfortunately every day that goes by more and more conservatives are realizing that the GOP has sold them Down the conveyor and are scrambling. I’ve made my opinion that it’s high time tks leave for several years now and provided historical examples of how change can come about simply by refusing to accept the status quo. Some listened most others pooh-poohed it and so be it. It’s all good in the exchange of ideas. Nonetheless by talking about it, the seed was planted. What was once inconceivable now seems the only logical solution to some of these folks. Who woulda thunk bluegill would have come around? HondaV45 was brutalized for actually voting for Oboobi in order to speed up the desolation. Now some of the same mockers start to see the tough love logic of it. Maybe you’ll come around and maybe you won’t. But you’re not going to gain any traction if all you have is “vote team red just because we’re not team blue”.

In a way, it’s good to see your drivel because the back and forth with other conservative rebuttals are like watering the fertile ground — the seeds of 3rd parties, nullification and constitutional amendments are already long planted and RINOs think they can kill by merely pissing on the seeds. They’re wrong. Barring a come to Jesus moment, the GOP is doomed, your way or my way only effects how long. I’d like to see it in the next 6 months. But if it goes your way with the same evil jokers at the helm, you’d have 3 years tops 2017. Mark it in your calendar–1 Jan 2017, the GOP is dead.

AH_C on December 16, 2013 at 10:55 PM

AH_C on December 16, 2013 at 10:55 PM

‘crap’ should be crab, as in crabs in a bucket trying to stop the crabs on top from leaving.

AH_C on December 16, 2013 at 11:05 PM

Daikokuco

The situation is, what is the value in voting for Republicans who behave exactly like democrats.

Is Paul Ryan as bad as, say Elizabeth Warren? He is the one we are pillorying today, so There is no difference between him and Harry Reid.. that is the assertion, right? I don’t buy it. I don’t think, if you were being totally honest, that you would say that there’s no difference either.

Maybe they aren’t Warren and Murray levels of stupid (though the Ryan-Murray deal would call even that assumption into question), but they are bad enough.

I don’t like this deal, however it does have to get through the senate and across the desk of the president. Want a better deal? Get rid of the obstacles.

I don’t really fear democrats having all 3 chambers, because “they” already do. That is, big-spending, statists who have no respect for individual liberty, privacy, or fkin NOT spending other people’s money. Doesn’t matter that the democrats include some guys who call themselves republicans. They are all the same thing whatever they call themselves.

Look at Detroit and look at Cedar Rapids if you don’t see a difference in the way the 2 parties govern.

I like the philosophy of “don’t vote, it only encourages them.” Or vote for somebody who reflects your principles.

You are effectively giving up on the country.

Maybe that route, eventually that 5 or 10% of defiant voters will have to have their concerns addressed in a real manner? None of this BS platitudes to small government that come on the campaign trail and disappear the second the slimey SOB steps off the plane in DC.

This country is still the last best hope for the world and worth fighting for, staying at home and not voting in the face of the people who want and are “fundamentally transforming” the country into just another euro-nanny state is, on some level at least, a betrayal to all those who have sacrificed so we can have a representative republic. Look, the country and I may go down in the end, but I won’t be quiet about it or pat myself on the back for enabling it to happen.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 11:10 PM

“Vote for us and we promise to pay lip service to your positions on select hot button issues. Sometimes. When convenient….or during the run-up to an election. We will, of course, take whatever action we deem necessary to protect our position and privilege without regard to principle. (If you don’t like it, look at the ALTERNATIVE!!!!)

Oh, and send us some goddamn money, you insufferable conservative freaks.”

It’s a powerful message, folks. How can you not support the GOP.

ElectricPhase on December 16, 2013 at 11:18 PM

AH_C

You’re the crap. Squatting down in the red bucket trying to stop others from leaving before you get flash steamed.

This Is the USA we are talking about. If you want to leave before we get steamed than be my guest, I’m going to fight for this country as long as I can. I expect to take on the socialists, communists, liars and so on, It’s a bit much to have to take on those who claim to want the same things as well.

Unfortunately every day that goes by more and more conservatives are realizing that the GOP has sold them Down the conveyor and are scrambling.

There are members of the GOP you disagree with. Really, aren’t you being over the top dramatic?

I’ve made my opinion that it’s high time tks leave for several years now and provided historical examples of how change can come about simply by refusing to accept the status quo

I forget, by not voting or splitting the party? How is it that you are going to make your will known?

HondaV45 was brutalized for actually voting for Oboobi in order to speed up the desolation.

He is a democrat and the people who follow him are idiots.

But you’re not going to gain any traction if all you have is “vote team red just because we’re not team blue”.

It’s hard to compete with that “Destroy the country” message that the traitors here are pushing.

Barring a come to Jesus moment, the GOP is doomed,

Well you have fun in your treehouse with your democrat Honda rider. If the GOP is doomed then the country is doomed because you are handing power to people who hate everything this country stands for (individualism, freedom, responsibility, profit) and the idea that power is going to be given to people who actually want the worst for the country to bring about the downfall is a sick joke. At least the democrats think they are going to make things better. That makes them more patriotic, and in a sad way, more worthy then this who simply want to rule over the rubble.

Mark it in your calendar–1 Jan 2017, the GOP is dead.

All you are doing is pushing it to the center after you are written off.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 11:29 PM

a powerful message, folks. How can you not support the GOP. ElectricPhase on December 16, 2013 at 11:18 PM

Yes indeed,, my General and officers… ummm.

I guess I’m own my own.

wolly4321 on December 16, 2013 at 11:37 PM

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=226811

To Paul Ryan, John Boehner and the rest of the ReThuglicans in DC:

You will still financially******the public. You will do it because thus far the public lets you get away with it. You will keep claiming that it’s “less” and you expect us to lap it up — much like you’d expect a woman who is sexually assaulted would be assuaged by hearing that she’s only going to get “half” or “just the tip” — right Ryan?

As for your attempted defusing of Tea Party anger at Boehner and yourself, good luck. And as for “getting his Irish up” what Boehner needs is to be emasculated and ejected from office, then imprisoned, along with you.

Why? For one simple reason: Assault is assault, and fiscal deficits are financial assault.

This is trivially proved by simple arithmetic.

Assault is a crime. Theft is a crime. It is a crime not only under the law but under common and natural law, in that the taking of that which you do not own is morally indefensible except in extremis where necessary to save one’s own life.

But there is no “extremis”; the nation is not under attack. Indeed, the federal government’s injury when it comes to fiscal trouble is self-inflicted and thus not only fails to rise to the occasion of being justification for such but is quite the opposite, exactly as a person who drinks their liver into a hardened ball of cirrhosis can hardly complain about his plight.

For decades you and your compatriots have made promises that are mathematically impossible to fulfill. You enticed people to vote for you by lying. That’s fraud in the inducement, another act that should be a crime and is for ordinary people — but not for you.

There is no defense that can be raised for this so-called “budget deal.” It is a scam and an outright assault, just as have all the others since Tip O’Neill’s lie told to Ronald Reagan, and his willing complicity in accepting and promulgating it once he knew Tip was lying to him.

You are no better. You are a Statist and in fact a Marxist, as are Boehner and Obama. All three of you, along with Pelosi and Reid, believe you have the right to steal the productive output of the citizens of this nation. You believe you have the right to take not by consent, the lawful and just means by which government operates, but by subterfuge, duplicity and fraud through the operation of deficit spending.

You are no different, and no better, than the others. You are all illegitimate in your acts, irrespective of whether you can cloak them with the imprimatur of the “King’s seal” via your “votes.” You no more have the right to steal the productive output of the people by deceit than a thief in the night has the right to pick the lock on your home and help himself to the contents of your safe, or even just your refrigerator.

You can strut out in the Capitol Building all you want Paul, but not everyone was asleep in Middle and High School math class. Some of us were wide awake, not having been drugged into oblivion with Ritalin or through simple boredom and lies.

The time will come when the mathematical impossibility of what you are doing comes down around the ears of everyone in this nation. I’m sure you think you can maintain your scheme until you leave office, and thus you don’t care. After all, who gives a damn about the young adults, kids and grandkids — not to mention those not yet born — right?

If you were to actually run some of the numbers and looked at the imbalances you have created over the last half-dozen years you wouldn’t be so sanguine.

But you’d rather not look….. right?

Good luck.

You’re gonna need it.

Murphy9 on December 16, 2013 at 11:42 PM

all you are doing is pushing it to the center after you are written off. V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 11:29 PM

Your foxhole is way over there. Holler if you need help.

We’ll come running.

wolly4321 on December 16, 2013 at 11:43 PM

In a way, it’s good to see your drivel because the back and forth with other conservative rebuttals are like watering the fertile ground — the seeds of 3rd parties, nullification and constitutional amendments are already long planted and RINOs think they can kill by merely pissing on the seeds.

AH_C on December 16, 2013 at 10:55 PM

The “pissing on the seeds” approach worked to get Romney nominated. We’re starting to see the same playbook put to use now: Insist that there is a vast silent majority on your side. Shout down, insult, and marginalize any inconvenient voices. I even recognize some noms de guerre from those days.

How does the saying go….don’t piss down my back and tell me it’s raining.

ElectricPhase on December 16, 2013 at 11:44 PM

Federal law does not trump state law. The federal government, under the constitution, has powers delegatd to it by the states. The states are prohibited from doing certain things reserved to the federal government. And in case subsidiarity doesn’t make sense to you big-R Republican loving simps, it is specifically spelled out in the ninth and tenth amendments to the constitution.

You guys think the sheriffs ignoring gun control laws is cute, just wait until they start locking up federal agents. I’m sure you’ll come to me and tell me “nullification doesn’t do anything,” and I’ll laugh as I turn my back on you and walk away.

gryphon202 on December 17, 2013 at 12:19 AM

Seriously, drop dead.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 10:27 PM

Bmore on December 17, 2013 at 12:27 AM

The “pissing on the seeds” approach worked to get Romney nominated. We’re starting to see the same playbook put to use now: Insist that there is a vast silent majority on your side. Shout down, insult, and marginalize any inconvenient voices. I even recognize some noms de guerre from those days.How does the saying go….don’t piss down my back and tell me it’s raining.
ElectricPhase on December 16, 2013 at 11:44 PM

Agreed. I’m glad to see more and more are awaking to the fact that statists and cronyists are pissing on us.

There’s one constitutional amendment I’dlike to see with regards to taxation without representation; no federal tax may be enacted without 3/4 of State legislature AND Governors and may be used only for the explicit purpose stated. And every law passed in DC must sunset in 3, 5 or 9 years. Regulations cannot be written by agencies, only by congress for no longer than 3 years. 5 years for taxes unrelated to core constitutional functions like entitlements etc. And 9 years for core responsibilities for defending the country. No more mandates as that belongs to the states. There are very few things domestically the fed need concern themselves beyond some harmonization of trade between states. No more omnibus legislation. And of course repeal of 16th and 17th.

AH_C on December 17, 2013 at 12:31 AM

Federal law does not trump state law.

Here you go.

So for the stuff that counts, Obamacare, Amnesty, immigration, federal debt and anything that could be argued as “Commerce”… Your “nullification” plan won’t work. But don’t let being wrong stop you from walking away.

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 12:37 AM

Anyone know if Honda V65 still posts? I haven’t seen him post in a long time, although I’m not around often either. Dude was one of the best citizens of this site.

Daikokuco on December 17, 2013 at 12:41 AM

Here you go.

So for the stuff that counts, Obamacare, Amnesty, immigration, federal debt and anything that could be argued as “Commerce”… Your “nullification” plan won’t work. But don’t let being wrong stop you from walking away.

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 12:37 AM

Federal preemption is a court doctrine from common law. The supreme court and the rest of the federal judiciary is an arm of the federal government. It’s cute how you think the federal government can police itself, but not so much, Butch.

gryphon202 on December 17, 2013 at 12:42 AM

Agreed. I’m glad to see more and more are awaking to the fact that statists and cronyists are pissing on us.
AH_C on December 17, 2013 at 12:31 AM

You are talking about deliberately wrecking the country so you can rule over the rubble. (Which you won’t, even the British didn’t like Benedict Arnold and the people you are empowering hate you.) If you are going too take this stand at least don’t cry about it when you get called out as a traitor.

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 12:43 AM

Anyone know if Honda V65 still posts? I haven’t seen him post in a long time, although I’m not around often either. Dude was one of the best citizens of this site.

Daikokuco on December 17, 2013 at 12:41 AM

The DNC stopped paying him after Obamas second victory was assured.

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 12:44 AM

This Constitution, and the laws of the United States which shall be made in pursuance thereof; and all treaties made, or which shall be made, under the authority of the United States, shall be the supreme law of the land; and the judges in every state shall be bound thereby, anything in the Constitution or laws of any State to the contrary notwithstanding.

And for those of you citing the constitution as the basis of federal preemption, unconstitutional laws are not made in pursuance of the constitution. Just as “all treaties made, or which shall be made under the authority…” Etc., is subject to the definition of how treaties shall be ratified, found elsewhere in the document.

gryphon202 on December 17, 2013 at 12:44 AM

So for the stuff that counts, Obamacare, Amnesty, immigration, federal debt and anything that could be argued as “Commerce”… Your “nullification” plan won’t work. But don’t let being wrong stop you from walking away.

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 12:37 AM

Sounds like a good reason to “give up on the country federal government”…

Daikokuco on December 17, 2013 at 12:45 AM

The DNC stopped paying him after Obamas second victory was assured.

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 12:44 AM

Dude, you don’t even know anything he posted. I wouldn’t be surprised if Obammy carried out one of his famous extrajudicial murderdronings on him because V65 pissed him off so much. Or maybe Boehner ordered the strike. Probably something along those lines.

Daikokuco on December 17, 2013 at 12:49 AM

gryphon202

Federal preemption is a court doctrine from common law.

No, it comes from an interpretation of the supremacy clause of the constitution, Read the link.

The supreme court and the rest of the federal judiciary is an arm of the federal government. It’s cute how you think the federal government can police itself, but not so much, Butch.

LOL, No, the idea was that the people would police the government through elections, that power would come through the convent of the governed… remember? We were supposed to learn that in Jr high. Elections, the same thing that folks here are advocating that you sit out of or toss your vote away on a democrat.

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 12:49 AM

LOL, No, the idea was that the people would police the government through elections, that power would come through the convent of the governed… remember? We were supposed to learn that in Jr high. Elections, the same thing that folks here are advocating that you sit out of or toss your vote away on a democrat.

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 12:49 AM

“Interpretation” of the supremacy clause by whom? The courts, nitwit. And as far as that goes, I addressed that falacious interpretation upthread. Unconstitutional laws are not “made in pursuance” of the constitution.

gryphon202 on December 17, 2013 at 12:50 AM

This country is still the last best hope for the world and worth fighting for, staying at home and not voting in the face of the people who want and are “fundamentally transforming” the country into just another euro-nanny state is, on some level at least, a betrayal to all those who have sacrificed so we can have a representative republic. Look, the country and I may go down in the end, but I won’t be quiet about it or pat myself on the back for enabling it to happen.
V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 11:10 PM

And? Who doesn’t agree with you regarding America’s greatness? Another flaming fake outrage. where is this representative republic you speak of? Only a few in congress are working to be true to their constituents but they get dogged by the GOPe. People sent Lee and Cruz to explicitly stop the insanity as best as they can and the RINOs rebuke them for not towing the party line. Representation? Representing the party or the people that sent them? Speaking of which, McVain should have been destroyed after the Keating 5 episode and frog marched to club fed.. Instead he stuck around for 30 more years with his pathetic imitation of king George, inflicting us with onerous rules and robbing the fruits of our labor. There is a special place in hell for him for disobeying God and partaking in ruling over us unjustly. He gets no credit for being a war hero, instead his portion is doubled for betraying we the people.

I love America just as much as you do and probably more since I have grown up and lived “on the economy” in 3rd world countries as well as Europe. I’ve been around and nothing compares to her.

And damn skippy I’m mad at these crooks and slimeballs lording it over we the people. Leave me alone, get your hand out of my wallet and go get a real job.

AH_C on December 17, 2013 at 12:51 AM

Leave me alone, get your hand out of my wallet and go get a real job.

AH_C on December 17, 2013 at 12:51 AM

Did you address that at V7? You mean trolling for the RNC doesn’t count?

gryphon202 on December 17, 2013 at 12:53 AM

Apparently he was around a couple months ago at least. Here’s a message addressed to someone just like you, V7, from the man himself!

When we’ve left your party – you can take the mirror and shove it up your ass – in fact – you can do that now for all we care.

Second – throw away the country? That’s what YOUR Ayatollahs have done for 50 years – they’ve been complicit in the destruction of this nation with the Dims.

The Tea Party people didn’t f*ck this nation – they only came along in the last four years.

YOU GUYS ARE THE PROBLEM.

But hey – I’m with you … I think all Conservatives need to leave your illustrious party led by charismatics like John Cornyn and Mitch McConnell – I’m sure you’ll do fine with such inspiring leaders without us.

HondaV65 on October 15, 2013 at 9:03 PM

Daikokuco on December 17, 2013 at 12:54 AM

Dude, you don’t even know anything he posted. I wouldn’t be surprised if Obammy carried out one of his famous extrajudicial murderdronings on him because V65 pissed him off so much. Or maybe Boehner ordered the strike. Probably something along those lines.

Daikokuco on December 17, 2013 at 12:49 AM

Again, I am a long term member of this site. He was pretty much outed years ago. He voted for Obama. He declared he was going to do so here. Gleefully. If it was a drone strike or a lame ass rice rocket, good. whatever got him I’ll buy it a beer.

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 12:55 AM

“Interpretation” of the supremacy clause by whom? The courts, nitwit. And as far as that goes, I addressed that falacious interpretation upthread. Unconstitutional laws are not “made in pursuance” of the constitution.

gryphon202

So all you need for your nullification pipe dream is to get the court to reverse itself and to nullify Federal preemption. Good luck with that. Seriously, you ought to be writing some law briefs or something so we can build this new utopia patterned after your new, well researched and plausible vision for the USA.

Much harder to run good people and hold them accountable…

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 1:00 AM

I googled v7_sport and found posts here going as far back as January 2012. Whether that counts as a “long-time member” or not is subjective, but there you go.

gryphon202 on December 17, 2013 at 1:00 AM

So all you need for your nullification pipe dream is to get the court to reverse itself and to nullify Federal preemption. Good luck with that. Seriously, you ought to be writing some law briefs or something so we can build this new utopia patterned after your new, well researched and plausible vision for the USA.

Much harder to run good people and hold them accountable…

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 1:00 AM

We haven’t been running good people except as far as we got lucky with guys like Cruz and Lee. And how are they doing so far in effecting any real change?

And ya know, you accuse me of being utopian, but all I want is for our government to follow the constitution as our founding fathers intended it to be followed. You don’t seem to give a shit if you live in tyranny as long as it’s your guys making the rules. I guess that’s fine, but I’m not going to accept that premise no matter what arguments are built upon it.

I fully intend to hold our elected representatives accountable by whatever means necessary. That you do not like those means does not invalidate them.

gryphon202 on December 17, 2013 at 1:03 AM

Ladies and gentlemen, I have been called many things. Until tonight, “utopian” was not one of them. But I assure you one-and-all, I fully realize that any society in which I must affirmatively assert my rights in an adversarial relationship to the very government I liev under, is no utopia.

gryphon202 on December 17, 2013 at 1:06 AM

Again, I am a long term member of this site.

Doesn’t mean shit.

Murphy9 on December 17, 2013 at 1:19 AM

AH_C

And? Who doesn’t agree with you regarding America’s greatness?

You evidently. When you talk about “what was once inconceivable now seems the only logical solution and… HondaV45 was brutalized for actually voting for Oboobi in order to speed up the desolation. Now some of the same mockers start to see the tough love logic of it.”… If you care about this country you don’t want to “speed the “desolation” (destruction) If you think we are a great country you don’t want it wrecked on the very off chance you might get more influence. That’s selfish and wrongheaded. Really,it’s incredibly self defeating.

Another flaming fake outrage. where is this representative republic you speak of?

The outrage is genuine. There were a lot of people who gave their all for you to have the opportunity you piss away so cavalierly. The republic hasn’t elected who you wanted recently, me neither, I don’t want it wrecked to get my own way though. I want people like you to wise up.

People sent Lee and Cruz to explicitly stop the insanity as best as they can and the RINOs rebuke them for not towing the party line.

Bull, they are being rebuked for not having a plan. Shutting down government when the other side has the senate and the presidency to defund Obamacare is useless. It didn’t work. It was a waste of time.

Representing the party or the people that sent them? Speaking of which, McVain should have been destroyed after the Keating 5 episode and frog marched to club fed.. Instead he stuck around for 30 more years with his pathetic imitation of king George, inflicting us with onerous rules and robbing the fruits of our labor.

Are you from Arizona? You do know he isn’t the entire GOP, right?

There is a special place in hell for him for disobeying God and partaking in ruling over us unjustly.

Almost as if he was a traitor… rooting for “desolation”…

He gets no credit for being a war hero, instead his portion is doubled for betraying we the people.

Nothing unhinged there, has he ever actually rooted for the worst for the country, for any reason? You have.

I love America just as much as you do and probably more since I have grown up and lived “on the economy” in 3rd world countries as well as Europe.

Quite clearly you don’t. I don’t want to destroy the country in the hopes that everyone will look to me to straighten it out. I would NEVER vote to injure the country. You have all but endorsed that strategy. You didn’t grow up here? You are an immigrant? And you still are rooting for “desolation”?

I’ve been around and nothing compares to her.

So why empower those who want to see it dragged down? I am ABSOLUTELY GENUINE in my patriotism. What you are advocating is injurious to the country and, here’s the punch line: it won’t get you to where you say you want to go.

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 1:20 AM

I googled v7_sport and found posts here going as far back as January 2012. Whether that counts as a “long-time member” or not is subjective, but there you go.

gryphon202 on December 17, 2013 at 1:00 AM

Keep goggling, this name goes back to 2011, and I had a previous as well. :-) Better yet, come up with a coherent counterargument or Google “Federal preemption”…

Ladies and gentlemen, I have been called many things. Until tonight, “utopian” was not one of them.

You should get a word of the day calendar. Along with a civics 101 textbook.

Doesn’t mean shit.

Murphy9 on December 17, 2013 at 1:19 AM

It means I knew that hondav65 voted for Obama…

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 1:25 AM

gryphon202

We haven’t been running good people except as far as we got lucky with guys like Cruz and Lee. And how are they doing so far in effecting any real change?

The results should of course be instantaneous, especially when the strategy has been lacking.

And ya know, you accuse me of being utopian, but all I want is for our government to follow the constitution as our founding fathers intended it to be followed.

AS DO I.

You don’t seem to give a shit if you live in tyranny as long as it’s your guys making the rules.

Nope. Not the case. And no, this isn’t “tyranny”. It’s horrible, horrible governance, but you aren’t being arrested for saying what you think.

I guess that’s fine, but I’m not going to accept that premise no matter what arguments are built upon it

You aren’t going to accept anything, evidently. the whole “LA LA LA LA LA” gambit.

I fully intend to hold our elected representatives accountable by whatever means necessary. That you do not like those means does not invalidate them.

No, being invalid invalidates them. :-)

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 1:36 AM

Keep goggling, this name goes back to 2011, and I had a previous as well. :-) Better yet, come up with a coherent counterargument or Google “Federal preemption”…

Dude. Chill. I stated that as a matter of fact. Whether that qualifies as “a good long time” is a matter of subjective opinion, but I have no reason to believe you’re not telling the truth about how long you’ve been posting here. That doesn’t change my opinion of the substance of your rants, but whatevs.

And as for the “civics” crack, given the state of public ejucashun over the last 110 years or so, you’d better rethink what you’ve been taught. I’ve never seen anyone here so eager to be fellated duped by a bunch of politicians.

gryphon202 on December 17, 2013 at 1:38 AM

So why empower those who want to see it dragged down? I am ABSOLUTELY GENUINE in my patriotism. What you are advocating is injurious to the country and, here’s the punch line: it won’t get you to where you say you want to go.
V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 1:20 AM

Aw, bless your heart. What do you have against immigrants, legal ones? A lot of times they can be more patriotic than your mother’s very own apple pie. They are so because they know what it’s like in their homeland vs what all they can be here. Libturds pine and sigh about the great European experiments in socialism or lust after China and they haven’t the slightest clue about how much better we are despite our flaws.

What I’m advocating may be injurious to our country but what Ryan did and is doing IS and will be injurious. What the founding fathers did was injurious and they knew full well it was treasonous to king George, but they were prepared to hang for it on their solemn honor. What Lincoln and the GOP did was injurious but we came out alright. In hindsight, we should have banned the democratic party but what’s done is done. Right now we’re being set up for generations to be injured by serfdom and financial enslavement and you don’t think it’s worth fighting about? It’s ok if you don’t but don’t go thinking I owe you anything.

AH_C on December 17, 2013 at 1:39 AM

No, being invalid invalidates them. :-)

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 1:36 AM

So what happens if the sheriffs start detaining federal agents? Will the federales come out shooting? I guaran-damn-tee you, as much as I hope with all my heart and soul it doesn’t come to that, you’d better believe that nothing will galvanize the American people more quickly or thoroughly against the federal government than being shot at by its agents.

gryphon202 on December 17, 2013 at 1:42 AM

And another question for those of you big-R Republican bootlicking simps who believe in unconditional federal pre-emption contra the federalist papers: what entity serves as the enforcement arm for the Supreme Court?

“Mr. Marshall has made his decision. Now let him enforce it.”

gryphon202 on December 17, 2013 at 1:45 AM

It means I knew that hondav65 voted for Obama…

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 1:25 AM

You were in the voting booth with it?

LMMFAO

Murphy9 on December 17, 2013 at 1:51 AM

given the state of public ejucashun over the last 110 years or so, you’d better rethink what you’ve been taught.
gryphon202 on December 17, 2013 at 1:38 AM

110 years? I’ve almost got that beat time wise. I’ll certainly feel that way tomorrow morning.

AH_C

Aw, bless your heart. What do you have against immigrants, legal ones? A lot of times they can be more patriotic than your mother’s very own apple pie. They are so because they know what it’s like in their homeland vs what all they can be here. Libturds pine and sigh about the great European experiments in socialism or lust after China and they haven’t the slightest clue about how much better we are despite our flaws.

It struck me that someone who has evidently been accepted into this country is intentionally rooting for it’s downfall.

“What I’m advocating may be injurious to our country”

There it is. You are out to hurt the country, deliberately, in the hopes that it will get you something. Do you think that is going to be a persuasive message in the general public? You know that there are people who take oaths to fight enemies foreign and domestic.. Right? Do you think my promise expires?

What I’m advocating may be injurious to our country but what Ryan did and is doing IS and will be injurious.

He thinks, with some justification, he is getting the best deal for the right that he can. There are some things that need to be fixed in committee, but he shouldn’t be pilloried for this as he has.

What Lincoln and the GOP did was injurious but we came out alright.

Maintaining the union…. ?

Right now we’re being set up for generations to be injured by serfdom and financial enslavement and you don’t think it’s worth fighting about?

Indeed, not electing socialists is a good start on a strategy.

It’s ok if you don’t but don’t go thinking I owe you anything.

If you are an immigrant to this country you owe it to us not to deliberately trash it, as you are advocating by electing democrats even though you supposedly believe in conservative principles. It’s a stupid bird that sh!ts in it’s own nest, especially when the plan is to clean house. You owe me and those 5 kids that won’t have anywhere near the same opportunities that were given to you by the sweat and blood of my ancestors. You owe a lot (as do I) and that you don’t see that is pretty narcissistic.

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 2:03 AM

Indeed, not electing socialists is a good start on a strategy.

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 2:03 AM

FAIL. You are encouraging us to elect Republicans, regardless of their behavior or practical ideology, solely on the basis of what they say on the campaign trail. You say one thing with your words (constitutional government, not happy with tyranny, blah blah blah), and then you turn right around as if you don’t care if you’re lied to as long as it’s your guys doing the lying. I’m sorry. I just don’t get it!

gryphon202 on December 17, 2013 at 2:07 AM

So what happens if the sheriffs start detaining federal agents? Will the federales come out shooting? I guaran-damn-tee you, as much as I hope with all my heart and soul it doesn’t come to that, you’d better believe that nothing will galvanize the American people more quickly or thoroughly against the federal government than being shot at by its agents.

gryphon202

This has what to do with anything?

what entity serves as the enforcement arm for the Supreme Court?

“Mr. Marshall has made his decision. Now let him enforce it.”

gryphon202 on December 17, 2013 at 1:45 AM

Usually the police. Occasionally the national guard. The more you know….

You were in the voting booth with it?

LMMFAO

Murphy9 on December 17, 2013 at 1:51 AM

I took it at it’s word.

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 2:07 AM

what entity serves as the enforcement arm for the Supreme Court?

“Mr. Marshall has made his decision. Now let him enforce it.”

gryphon202 on December 17, 2013 at 1:45 AM
Usually the police. Occasionally the national guard. The more you know….

Okay. Cite for me one instance in which the police have enforced a supreme court decision.

gryphon202 on December 17, 2013 at 2:11 AM

So what happens if the sheriffs start detaining federal agents? Will the federales come out shooting? I guaran-damn-tee you, as much as I hope with all my heart and soul it doesn’t come to that, you’d better believe that nothing will galvanize the American people more quickly or thoroughly against the federal government than being shot at by its agents.

gryphon202

This has what to do with anything?

Your assertion that nullification “won’t do anything.” It most certainly will do something if the laws the states pass give the sheriffs the authority to detain federal agents. Indeed, I am of the firm belief that if nullification is to mean anything there must be enforcement provisions therein. And so again, I ask you, what is the federal government’s recourse if its agents are detained under the rubric of nullification?

gryphon202 on December 17, 2013 at 2:13 AM

gryphon202

FAIL.

Yes, you wrote that, you must be a 12 year old girl… go to bed, it’s a school night.

You are encouraging us to elect Republicans,

Yes.

regardless of their behavior or practical ideology,

No.

solely on the basis of what they say on the campaign trail.

You love putting words in my mouth. Nope.

You say one thing with your words (constitutional government, not happy with tyranny, blah blah blah), and then you turn right around as if you don’t care if you’re lied to as long as it’s your guys doing the lying.

Where did I indicate I don’t mind being lied to? Please provide the quote.

I’m sorry. I just don’t get it!

The way out of the mess we are in is to elect the most conservative candidates we can, following the Buckley rule. Once elected we keep them accountable by staying on them, threatening, cajoling, phoning, texting, calling at their house, vacation home, stopping them on the streets, anything and everything to make our opinion known. Also giving to lobbying organizations that will push our causes.
It wont be perfect, it never has been and never will be as long as humans are involved. But the other side does it, they out work us. I have seen it first hand in the elections. They are better organized, better funded, and HARDER WORKING. If they want it more and they are willing to work harder trey are going to get it, and in a sense that is the American way. That’s why they are in charge, that;s what we need to reverse.

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 2:21 AM

Okay. Cite for me one instance in which the police have enforced a supreme court decision.

gryphon202 on December 17, 2013 at 2:11 AM

Kelo v. City of New London… Next?

Indeed, I am of the firm belief that if nullification is to mean anything there must be enforcement provisions therein. And so again, I ask you, what is the federal government’s recourse if its agents are detained under the rubric of nullification?

gryphon202 on December 17, 2013 at 2:13 AM

If the charge was just “nullification”? it would start with calling up the Governor and reminding him about Article VI, Clause 2 of the United States Constitution…

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 2:27 AM

Where did I indicate I don’t mind being lied to? Please provide the quote.

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 2:21 AM

Every goddam thing you’ve said on this thread in support of the Republican Party, simp! I can’t narrow it down to one quote!

Anyhow, something big is brewing. We are sitting on a powderkeg. And we’re going to find out the real meaning of one of my favorite old sayings:

There are three kinds of people in the world: Those that make things happen, those that watch things happen, and those that scratch their heads as they wonder what happened.

Pardon my terseness, but f*** the Buckley rule. That was jim-effing-dandy and fan-effing-tastic when Goldwater ran 50 years ago, but we are in an existential crisis. Ya know, where our very existence as a free nation is being seriously called into question. I may be politically conservative on policy matters and ethical principles, but I have no more patience for backstabbers, backroom deals, and all the other old ways of doing things.

You want my freedoms? Molon Labe, REPUBLICANS.

gryphon202 on December 17, 2013 at 2:31 AM

If the charge was just “nullification”? it would start with calling up the Governor and reminding him about Article VI, Clause 2 of the United States Constitution…

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 2:27 AM

And then the governor says, “The law is unconstitutional and is therefore not in pursuance of the constitution.” Then what? Hold back federal funding? How about when the governor says they won’t let IRS agents enforce federal tax law any longer? F*** you, FedGov. You won’t give us the money? We won’t send you any in the first place!

The government only has power as long as it can enforce that power at the end of a gun. Tell me V7, Is that what FedGov should do? Is that what they will do? Whatever happened to the V7_Sport who was telling me upthread he was such a freedom-loving constitutionalist? On this basis and this basis alone you sure sound like you’re comfortable living in a tyranny — especially since you believe replacing a few politicians every election cycle will have any more practical effect than nullification acts will.

gryphon202 on December 17, 2013 at 2:35 AM

Every goddam thing you’ve said on this thread in support of the Republican Party, simp! I can’t narrow it down to one quote!

Heh…

Anyhow, something big is brewing. We are sitting on a powder keg.

Yay.

Pardon my terseness, but f*** the Buckley rule.

Better to panic and work for the destruction of the country… Check.

That was jim-effing-dandy and fan-effing-tastic when Goldwater ran 50 years ago

I really do think Goldwater would have made a great president. Vietnam would have made a hell of a parking lot. However, he won just 6 states.

but we are in an existential crisis.

Indeed, and as you have seen, there are people here who want to make it worse on the crazy pipe dream that they can rule the rubble.

I have no more patience for backstabbers

Like people who advocate voting for democrats to screw the GOP? Good, me neither, they are traitors to the cause and, more importantly, to the country.

You want my freedoms? Molon Labe, REPUBLICANS.

Seriously, enough of the bumper sticker mentality, we are supposedly all adults, examine the problem with reason, not emotion. Emotions are easily manipulated.

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 2:46 AM

And then the governor says, “The law is unconstitutional and is therefore not in pursuance of the constitution.”

What law?

How about when the governor says they won’t let IRS agents enforce federal tax law any longer?

Do you think there won’t be any consequences for something like that?

Whatever happened to the V7_Sport who was telling me upthread he was such a freedom-loving constitutionalist?

He went to bed because you are a hysteric.

this basis and this basis alone you sure sound like you’re comfortable living in a tyranny —

Sounds like you hear what you want to hear. Your nullification plan isn’t a viable one IMO. Back to the drawing board.

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 2:53 AM

Sounds like you hear what you want to hear. Your nullification plan isn’t a viable one IMO. Back to the drawing board.

V7_Sport on December 17, 2013 at 2:53 AM

That depends on if even parts of it would enjoy a groundswell of support. What you have to realize, though, are a few salient points that escape most people:

A) Nullification is not a national movement. As much as I personally would like it to be, if only one state participates in it, it would be at least a partial guard against federal overreach in that state. I’m okay with that. Subsidiarity allows for that. Which leads directly to my next point…

B) I am personally working on it in my home state. I won’t mention which state that is here, although those of you who have paid attention over the years I’ve been posting here may remember anyway. I’ve been planting a few bugs in the ears of my local legislators, and I have a pretty good feeling that when Obamacare’s effects fully hit, it will move beyond the talk-about-it stage. And again to segue into the next bullet point…

C) If you don’t think it’s a good idea, you are under no obligation to support it. Fully 2/3 of the colonists benefited from the freedoms that the revolution brought even though they were indifferent or actively opposed.

I am ready to live with the consequences of whatever decisions I make and whatever actions I take. Not everyone has to agree with me. But trying to dissuade me? That is definitely a fool’s errand.

gryphon202 on December 17, 2013 at 3:05 AM

Some practical advice:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/366515/faint-praise-ryan-murray-budget-plan-deroy-murdock

Read the whole thing before throwing rotten tomatoes.

onlineanalyst on December 17, 2013 at 7:40 AM

Apt analysis of Air Boehner:
http://spectator.org/print/57137

onlineanalyst on December 17, 2013 at 7:53 AM

Some practical advice:
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/366515/faint-praise-ryan-murray-budget-plan-deroy-murdock

Read the whole thing before throwing rotten tomatoes.

onlineanalyst on December 17, 2013 at 7:40 AM

Meh. I’ve always liked Murdock’s writing style. It’s the substance of his conclusions that I find somewhat lacking.

gryphon202 on December 17, 2013 at 7:56 AM

This one kept going til three in the morning? Jeebus!

ElectricPhase on December 17, 2013 at 8:43 AM

Schadenfreude

Bmore on December 17, 2013 at 9:11 AM

Over

Bmore on December 17, 2013 at 9:11 AM

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