Paul Ryan on the budget deal: Hey, we might fight on the debt ceiling instead

posted at 11:41 am on December 16, 2013 by Allahpundit

The key bit runs from 5:45 to 7:15. My pal Karl asks a good question:

The whole point of the budget deal, I thought, was to defuse a political landmine in the GOP’s path to the midterms. Take away the possibility of another shutdown, the thinking went, and you’re taking away an ace in the hole that desperate red-state Dems might otherwise play to save their seats next November. Mission accomplished. Except now Ryan’s saying that hitting the debt ceiling, which everyone understands would be far more damaging economically than a shutdown, is still in the picture if Republicans don’t have their as-yet-unspecified demands met. Krazy kwestion: Having folded at the last minute in a debt-ceiling standoff more than once before, why would the GOP’s threats be taken seriously this time? They just caved on the budget in order to avoid any new brinksmanship that might come back to haunt them in the midterms. Now Ryan’s vowing … much more dangerous brinksmanship early next year? Does anyone, starting with Obama and Harry Reid, think they GOP will stand firm this time knowing what sort of political backlash it could inspire?

Their plan, I guess, is to lie low for now and then take stock of ObamaCare’s status next month. Maybe Healthcare.gov will be running smoothly, insurers will be up to speed in processing applications, and middle-class people whose insurance was taken away in the name of booting them onto more expensive O-Care plans will have magically made peace with their predicament. Or maybe Healthcare.gov will have new technical problems due to the payment system not having been built yet, insurers will be overwhelmed by the combo of backlogged applications and HHS’s endless half-assed seat-of-their-pants “fixes,” and new O-Care enrollees will be up in arms over their new deductibles and shrinking provider networks. In that case, the GOP might conclude — maybe not unreasonably — that O and his caucus will be so frazzled by ObamaCare screw-ups and what it might mean for the midterms that they might agree to some sort of delay. What that delay would look like, though I have no idea; the more people who sign up, the more impossible a mid-enrollment-period delay becomes. Even a popular GOP demand, like agreeing to scale back the “risk corridor” provisions in the law so that HHS can’t bail out insurers, could cause chaos if Dems acquiesced in it now. I think they and O have already passed the point of no return on ObamaCare. Which is great news for the GOP insofar as it means their opponents are fully committed to stay the course through next year’s havoc all the way up to the midterms. But it also means that O’s unlikely to make any debt-ceiling deals.

Maybe Ryan knows that and the point of the next round of brinksmanship is simply to make the Landrieus and Pryors in the Senate squirm by forcing them to either stick by the O-Care clusterfark or humiliate O by voting with the GOP. If nothing else, once Republicans do cave, they can use it as a campaign commercial for their audience of grassroots righties to illustrate why it’s so important to get the Senate back in GOP hands in 2015.


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Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 2:52 PM

Amnesty is a good litmus test for sellouts. (The way gun control is on personal liberty issues.) Someone who will sell you out once will sell you out a hundred times. Paul Ryan, like Marco Rubio, is a sellout.

They don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt. They have already removed the doubt.

David Blue on December 16, 2013 at 3:15 PM

Ryan is a putz extraodinare.

Here’s something for our resident Libturd professor and RINOs to chew on: The Democrats and their Jim Crow factions wrote the how-to guide to shut down the Govt via the pursestring to ensure Negros were kept in their place and unprotected from roving KKK hoodlums. It’s also where posse commitas came into being (the sole bright spot in an otherwise campaign of oppression).

From the ASC History Newsletter:

After the Civil War, the Army was the prime enforcer of Reconstruction Policy in the South and ran the Freedman’s Bureau. Over time, in order to enforce Reconstruction against increasingly violent groups who were trying to intimidate ex-slaves, Radical Republicans in Congress increased the Army’s law enforcement powers in the defeated South.

Southerners, increasingly members of the revitalized Democratic Party, saw the US Army as an Army of Occupation. In the Election of 1876, the mainly Southern Democrats maintained control of the House. The Senate was nearly evenly split. Beginning in 1877 the Democrats used the Congressional Power of the Purse to revoke Reconstruction policy and cripple the Army. In 1877, the fiscal year still ended 30 June.

The Democrat controlled congress did not pass an appropriations act for the army until 21 November due to fights with the Hayes Administration over the power of the Army. No Army employee received pay. During this time enlisted men received quarters and food, but officers and civilians received no support and struggled for nearly five months. Why did the Democrat controlled Congress delay passing the Army Appropriations Act in 1877? They used the power of the purse to change National Policy and to reduce the President’s Authority.

From the end of the Civil War, US Army officers and troops enforced contract law, assisted law enforcement, and protected polling stations during elections. In essence, the US Army ensured equal protection and rights to the newlyfreed/former-slaves in the southern states. Refusal to approve a budget in 1877 was part of a strategy to shut down the government to force the President to approve the “Posse Comitatus Act” which forbade the use of the Army to enforce domestic laws in the U.S. The original intent of the Act was to remove and prevent the US Army from protecting the rights of the former slaves in the south. This ushered in the era of Jim Crow in the south, and delayed the fulfillment of civil rights envisioned during reconstruction for nearly a century. Despite the medias’ and politicians’ portrayal of what has happened in our Nation’s Capitol in September and early October, refusing to fund part or all of the Federal Government is a tactic that seems to have been envisioned by the framers of the Constitution.

However, the Democrat Party in 1877 was the first to use this tool in a manner to prevent part of the government from functioning, and to “hold the government hostage” in order to change federal policy and reduce the President’s executive authority.

gotta like the editor’s bais -”radical Republicans”. No matter, focus on what the 1st budget shutdown fight was all about.

Goose – Gander and all that. Here the Dems used it where we can certainly see people were harmed and actually died as a direct result. Yet our RINOs quake at the thot of being accused of oppression, simply for trying to stave off massive debt and loss of opportunity for all citizens!!!

So, how long will you fence-sitters continue to allow the GOPe to continue to betray you, your kids and future generations? Get mad and start voting not for the lesser of 2 evils but for principled conservatives, even if you have to go 3rd party to do it. If 1/3 of all republicans did that in their given district, change will come and it most assuredly will NOT be a wasted vote.

AH_C on December 16, 2013 at 3:17 PM

Guam will Capsize and Tip Over into the ocean Hank Johnson
Worst ruling class in American history.

David Blue on December 16, 2013 at 3:29 PM

“We’ll get ‘em next time. You plebs don’t understand the high level of tactical chess we’re playing. Trust us..we’ll get ‘em next time. It’ll run like a top. We only take this one out for a spin on Sunday’s. Trust us.”

Used car politics salesman.

Mimzey on December 16, 2013 at 3:29 PM

Some of them are stupid. Others treat the voters as stupid. Either way the outcome is bad.

David Blue on December 16, 2013 at 3:31 PM

Why on Earth would Ryan and other Establishment GOP-ers keep doing this?? This involves massive new spending *now* for minor cuts, and cuts that harm military pensioners! Are they that stupid to hand the Democrats a wonderful rock to pummel them with in 2014?

Voice Over: Paul Ryan *says* he supports our veterans…but he led the charge to cut benefits to our injured war heroes.

Images of wounded vets

Voice Over: And while Ryan was slashing military pensions, he voted to keep giving tax breaks to [insert favorite target here]

Images of Fat Cat Happy corporate guys and hands shaking while dollars float by the screen

Voice Over: Ryan, bad for veterans, bad for America.

EasyEight on December 16, 2013 at 3:49 PM

AH_C on December 16, 2013 at 3:17 PM

Little extra background info:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_presidential_election,_1876

Democrat Tilden won by a squeaker in the popular vote, 50.92% over Hayes’ 47.92% with remaining votes going 3rd party – not even enough to push Hayes ahead if all 3rd party votes went to Hayes.

However, in the Electoral Vote, Hayes won 50.14 (21 States) to Tilden’s 49.86% (17 States). And y’all thot Bush’s win in 2000 was contentious. But Hayes paid a price for winning his election, via the backroom deals and agreeing to pull troops from enforcing law (Posse Commitas).

The Democratic platform pledged to replace the corruption of the Grant administration with honest, efficient government and to end “the rapacity of carpetbag tyrannies” in the South. It also called for treaty protection for naturalized U.S. citizens visiting their homeland, restrictions on Oriental immigration, tariff reform, and opposition to land grants for railroads

Upon his defeat, Tilden said, “I can retire to public life with the consciousness that I shall receive from posterity the credit of having been elected to the highest position in the gift of the people, without any of the cares and responsibilities of the office.”

Over on the Congressional side in the 44th Congress (Mar 1875 to Mar 1877 – Colorado joined the Union) and the 45th Congress (Mar 1877 – Mar 1879);
In the Senate, the split was 45 (63.2% R) and 26 (36.8% D) at the start of the 44th Congress, by the time it ended, the Ds pulled within 9 – 33 (D) to the 42 (R) & 1 indy at the beginning of the 45th Congress. Remember, during this time, Senators were appointed by States, not popular vote.

In the House, it started out as 178 (62.8% D) to 107 (35.8% R) and 4 Indies. But, the Dems lost significant share as house became evenly split 146 (D) to 146 (R). So even in “Red” States, the KKK was still pretty influential in local politics.

In all this, note that the Dems were in the minority of both houses and in the end, tied the House in the 45th Congress. We have RINOs telling us that despite their majority, they must “accept” the will of the people who supported Oboobi or some non-such. And over in the Senate, being in the minority didn’t stop the Dems from enabling Jim Crow. And here, our minority GOP Senate do’t even have the gonads to stand against the robbing of our wealth & chlidren’s future.

Compare and contrast the power of voting & maneuvering according to one’s conviction. The true believers in both cases lies with the Dem, even if they are wrong in their belief.

AH_C on December 16, 2013 at 4:22 PM

I am so sick of the fraud and pro-amnesty traitor Paul Ryan’s annoying grin!

bluegill on December 16, 2013 at 4:51 PM

With so many conservatives so pissed there is no way the GOP wins the Senate or holds on to the House.They have committed political suicide,and now we must establish a conservative third party to replace them.

redware on December 16, 2013 at 4:53 PM

Amnesty is a good litmus test for sellouts. (The way gun control is on personal liberty issues.) Someone who will sell you out once will sell you out a hundred times. Paul Ryan, like Marco Rubio, is a sellout.
They don’t deserve the benefit of the doubt. They have already removed the doubt.
David Blue on December 16, 2013 at 3:15 PM

Absolutely true!

bluegill on December 16, 2013 at 4:53 PM

With so many conservatives so pissed there is no way the GOP wins the Senate or holds on to the House.They have committed political suicide,and now we must establish a conservative third party to replace them.
redware on December 16, 2013 at 4:53 PM

I am moving closer to this. A third party must be 100% for enforcing immigration laws and not granting mass illegal alien amnesty.

bluegill on December 16, 2013 at 4:55 PM

I imagine that if we just buckle down and vote for the GOP they’ll deliver on the conservative agenda this time!

/sarcasm.

I honestly don’t believe there is anything that the GOP can do at this point that would cause some “conservatives” not to vote for it.

Monkeytoe on December 16, 2013 at 4:57 PM

“We don’t want nothing out of this…”

Now there’s a negotiating position to inspire respect! George Patton would be proud!

Only a fu*king RINO could say something this sapless.

rrpjr on December 16, 2013 at 5:02 PM

You know, Ryan, my lasting image of you for the rest of history will be your imperturbably placid nice-guy grin as Joe Biden stomped all over you. You fuc*ing muppet. Get lost.

rrpjr on December 16, 2013 at 5:04 PM

redware: Do not give up. Support the Senate Conservatives Fund, which allocates 100% of its moneys to the candidates it supports.

Or support the following candidates directly.

SUPPORT CONSERVATIVES

Fortunately, we have a choice. We can work together to promote the most promising conservative candidates in the country.

To help you, we have identified five outstanding U.S. Senate candidates who will stand up to the big spenders in both parties.
•Matt Bevin (R-KY)
•Chris McDaniel (R-MS)
•Ben Sasse (R-NE)
•Rob Maness (R-LA)
•Milton Wolf (R-KS)

These are full spectrum conservatives who understand that the oath of a senator is to “support and defend” the Constitution of the United States.

onlineanalyst on December 16, 2013 at 5:06 PM

It would be nice if you would fight about something, other than attacking your erstwhile allies.

Another Drew on December 16, 2013 at 5:08 PM

So the house is still passing legislation without reading it. This time it is the Repubs also.

TfromV on December 16, 2013 at 5:13 PM

redware: Do not give up. Support the Senate Conservatives Fund, which allocates 100% of its moneys to the candidates it supports.

Or support the following candidates directly.

SUPPORT CONSERVATIVES

Fortunately, we have a choice. We can work together to promote the most promising conservative candidates in the country.

To help you, we have identified five outstanding U.S. Senate candidates who will stand up to the big spenders in both parties.
•Matt Bevin (R-KY)
•Chris McDaniel (R-MS)
•Ben Sasse (R-NE)
•Rob Maness (R-LA)
•Milton Wolf (R-KS)

These are full spectrum conservatives who understand that the oath of a senator is to “support and defend” the Constitution of the United States.

onlineanalyst on December 16, 2013 at 5:06 PM

Milton Wolf is good people, but I don’t think he stands a snowball’s chance in hell. As for the others, how long before they pull a Rubio and reveal that they were lying all along? It’s just a hunch, but McDaniel in particular seems a little seedy to me. I could be wrong, but as the years pass I find myself increasingly less relieved and increasingly more vindicated.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 5:16 PM

So the house is still passing legislation without reading it. This time it is the Repubs also.

TfromV on December 16, 2013 at 5:13 PM

This time? Are you kidding me? At least you finally did wake up, Rip Van Winkle. But you’re wayyyyyyyyyy late to the party.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 5:17 PM

who else you gonna vote for? Democrats?

gwelf on December 16, 2013 at 1:00 PM

Is there a difference?

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 2:12 PM

There is a difference. In the long view Democrats and Republicans are leading us to the same place economically and culturally. They just want to get there at a different pace and take slightly different routes.

And that’s the appeal of Let It Burn. Neither party is going to actually deal with our national problems so we might as well get there as soon as possible so the rebuilding can begin.

gwelf on December 16, 2013 at 5:30 PM

There is a difference. In the long view Democrats and Republicans are leading us to the same place economically and culturally. They just want to get there at a different pace and take slightly different routes.

And that’s the appeal of Let It Burn. Neither party is going to actually deal with our national problems so we might as well get there as soon as possible so the rebuilding can begin.

gwelf on December 16, 2013 at 5:30 PM

But we need to protect ourselves from the fallout in the meantime.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 5:34 PM

So, how long will you fence-sitters continue to allow the GOPe to continue to betray you, your kids and future generations? Get mad and start voting not for the lesser of 2 evils but for principled conservatives, even if you have to go 3rd party to do it. If 1/3 of all republicans did that in their given district, change will come and it most assuredly will NOT be a wasted vote.

AH_C on December 16, 2013 at 3:17 PM

The change that would come is that the democrats would have complete control of all 3 branches of government and the USA would be finished. How many times do we need to learn the same lesson?

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 5:54 PM

who else you gonna vote for? Democrats?

gwelf on December 16, 2013 at 1:00 PM

Is there a difference?

Schadenfreude on December 16, 2013 at 2:12 PM

Every person who used to vote GOP and decides to stay home sends the GOP a 1 vote message.

Every one of *those* people who decide to vote Democrat instead, leverages that message to 2 votes.

Just thinking out loud.

Midas on December 16, 2013 at 6:03 PM

In all this, note that the Dems were in the minority of both houses and in the end, tied the House in the 45th Congress.
AH_C on December 16, 2013 at 4:22 PM

Because nothing has changed in the USA since reconstruction… Please, you are rationalizing giving them everything they want without a fight.

I am moving closer to this. A third party must be 100% for enforcing immigration laws and not granting mass illegal alien amnesty.

bluegill on December 16, 2013 at 4:55 PM

Splitting the vote on the right ought to really help elect conservatives, right? Look what the Bull Moose party wrought. Here, listen to this RINO.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 6:04 PM

How many times do we need to learn the same lesson?

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 5:54 PM

The fresh lesson we learned when we inserted Lee and Cruz is half our side is actually not on our side. I already had a hunch Boehner wasn’t up to the task but smoking out the senators will take some reflection. Cornyn turned out to be a HUGE disappointment and that was a harsh lesson too. I really thought we had a good pair of senators when we replaced KayBailey with Ted Cruz.

DanMan on December 16, 2013 at 6:04 PM

The change that would come is that the democrats would have complete control of all 3 branches of government and the USA would be finished. How many times do we need to learn the same lesson?

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 5:54 PM

You’ve not been paying attention, apparently. The Democrats already completely control all 3 branches, effectively speaking.

Midas on December 16, 2013 at 6:05 PM

Those who hurl epithets at the Ryan-Murray deal without suggesting an alternative of their own are just cranks and should be ignored.

Adjoran on December 16, 2013 at 6:07 PM

Every person who used to vote GOP and decides to stay home sends the GOP a 1 vote message.

Every one of *those* people who decide to vote Democrat instead, leverages that message to 2 votes.

Just thinking out loud.

Midas on December 16, 2013 at 6:03 PM

And again, someone advocating that you vote for Obama to send a message to the “establishment”… This must be to manipulate the week and stupid to help the democrat agenda.

This site must be infested with Mobys, people can’t be that stupid.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 6:07 PM

You’ve not been paying attention, apparently. The Democrats already completely control all 3 branches, effectively speaking.

Midas on December 16, 2013 at 6:05 PM

Millions of conservatives should have gotten their asses off the couch during the last election cycle then instead of rationalizing shooting themselves in the foot here.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 6:09 PM

Midas on December 16, 2013 at 6:03 PM

Yeah, we get it but they don’t seem to. My hunch is there is a growing faction that wants to just get the war started and will either stay home or vote dem even. I think it was HondaV65 that introduced me to this concept.

We’re not getting any younger and things aren’t getting any better. I’d be real uncomfortable going into retirement right now and I’d like to think there’s time to rebuild in my lifetime.

Oh hell, here’s Eddie Munster on Hugh Hewwitt babbling on again.

DanMan on December 16, 2013 at 6:10 PM

people can’t be that stupid.

Desperate times calls for desperate measures. There is no high road any longer. I want to get to every man for himself for awhile. I realize I have time to simmer down but right now we are getting played and I’m just not that into it.

DanMan on December 16, 2013 at 6:13 PM

Yeah, we get it but they don’t seem to. My hunch is there is a growing faction that wants to just get the war started and will either stay home or vote dem even. I think it was HondaV65 that introduced me to this concept.
DanMan on December 16, 2013 at 6:10 PM

HondaV65 is a democrat who sews defeatism on conservative sites to suppress voter turn out and help elect socialists. Don’t fall for it.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 6:16 PM

Desperate times calls for desperate measures. There is no high road any longer. I want to get to every man for himself for awhile. I realize I have time to simmer down but right now we are getting played and I’m just not that into it.

DanMan on December 16, 2013 at 6:13 PM

Voting for Obama to promote conservative principles is more than desperate, it is moronic. Look, you elect the most conservative people you can get and then work to keep them honest. the idea that staying home, splitting the vote with a 3rd party or even voting for the socialists is going to do anything but endorse the creeps who are wrecking the country is crazy.They will take power any way they can get it.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 6:19 PM

Those who hurl epithets at the Ryan-Murray deal without suggesting an alternative of their own are just cranks and should be ignored.

Adjoran on December 16, 2013 at 6:07 PM

*ignores the stupid crank repeatedly playing one of the stupider Democrat nonsensical memes in quite awhile*

Midas on December 16, 2013 at 6:22 PM

AH_C on December 16, 2013 at 3:17 PM

Thank you for that angle. I’m going to have to read more, but it makes sense.

Sure as hell never learned this in school.

wolly4321 on December 16, 2013 at 6:24 PM

Millions of conservatives should have gotten their asses off the couch during the last election cycle then instead of rationalizing shooting themselves in the foot here.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 6:09 PM

Millions of conservatives *did* in 2010 and gave the GOP the House.

And then got kicked in the face by the GOP as a ‘thank you’.

You can keep f*cking that chicken if you want, but a shitload of conservatives are beginning to decide that there’s no point to it.

Midas on December 16, 2013 at 6:25 PM

Midas on December 16, 2013 at 6:25 PM

Yep.

I’m not playing that game anymore.

I imagine the whigs said the same bs.

wolly4321 on December 16, 2013 at 6:33 PM

I voted for jeff flake,, how did that work out?

Frigging liar.

wolly4321 on December 16, 2013 at 6:37 PM

Re.Midas

And then got kicked in the face by the GOP as a ‘thank you’.

The republican party “kicked you in the face”… sure… Thanks for the BS, drama queen, but you have advocated voting for Obama here, which probably means you are you have no interest in seeing conservative principles succeed. If you are interested in seeing conservatism succeed you are a fool.

You can keep f*cking that chicken if you want, but a sh**load of conservatives are beginning to decide that there’s no point to it.

Stay classy you clever fellow. Keep deciding that your only contribution to the political process is going to be self-defeating rants on hotair and it will push the GOP and the country left faster than anything else. But that’s what you want, isn’t it?

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 6:49 PM

Those who hurl epithets at the Ryan-Murray deal without suggesting an alternative of their own are just cranks and should be ignored.

Adjoran on December 16, 2013 at 6:07 PM

Oh please! Every time someone does offer up an alternative, you’re among the first to laugh them out of the room! But you keep right on using that Dem talking point. It’ll give you a lot of credibility around here./

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 6:50 PM

Stay classy you clever fellow. Keep deciding that your only contribution to the political process is going to be self-defeating rants on hotair and it will push the GOP and the country left faster than anything else. But that’s what you want, isn’t it?

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 6:49 PM

Really? Really?! That’s all you got? The blame game? THIS is what’s wrong with movement conservatism, ladies and gentlemen.

Nullification, folks. Let the GOP diehards keep flukeing the chicken until they’re sore. There is a third way, and it’s not a third party.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 6:52 PM

Those who hurl epithets at the Ryan-Murray deal without suggesting an alternative of their own are just cranks and should be ignored.

Adjoran

Bend over specialists like yourself should use plenty of lube.

Meanwhile:

Paul Ryan: I’m Going to Bring the Same Kind of Conservative, Republican Principles to the Amnesty Issue That I Brought to the Budget Compromisee

So basically you’re going to give them whatever they want and then say it was the best you could do, lol. And the bend over specialists will then grab their lube, spread their cheeks and scream “What do you want, it’s the best we could do”, lol.

xblade on December 16, 2013 at 6:53 PM

The change that would come is that the democrats would have complete control of all 3 branches of government and the USA would be finished. How many times do we need to learn the same lesson?

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 5:54 PM

And that’s different from what the Republicans are doing how?

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 6:53 PM

So basically you’re going to give them whatever they want and then say it was the best you could do, lol. And the bend over specialists will then grab their lube, spread their cheeks and scream “What do you want, it’s the best we could do”, lol.

xblade on December 16, 2013 at 6:53 PM

And we don’t even get the courtesy of a reach-around! Jeebus!

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 6:54 PM

Ah, now we can understand why the “pro-business” groups hailed Boehner. There is a difference between being pro-business and championing free markets though, as this squib differentiates.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/366435/sometimes-being-pro-business-and-free-market-are-opposed-veronique-de-rugy

Will the same “pro-business” groups be pushing the amnesty legislation, too? Need you ask?

onlineanalyst on December 16, 2013 at 6:54 PM

Re.gryphon202

Really? Really?! That’s all you got? The blame game? THIS is what’s wrong with movement conservatism, ladies and gentlemen.

So you have a supposed conservative advocating for voting for Obama and this is what you come hop with. What is wrong is that it somehow became acceptable for “conservatives” to toss their toys out of the crib and have a tantrum when they don’t get whatever they want at any given moment. The voices that you seem to listen to most intently are the ones telling you to cut your own throats.

Nullification, folks.

Stupidity, folks.

Nullification, folks. Let the GOP diehards keep flukeing the chicken until they’re sore. There is a third way, and it’s not a third party.

You advocating for voting for Obama as well? Or just letting the country collapse so we all come to you for advice on how to rebuild?

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 7:00 PM

If you hate vets and love illegal aliens then Ryan/Rubio is your dream ticket.

Wigglesworth on December 16, 2013 at 7:06 PM

And that’s different from what the Republicans are doing how?

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 6:53 PM

The GOP hasn’t doubled the debt on entitlement programs. The GOP hasn’t socialized 1/5th of the economy. The GOP hasn’t given up on the Ukraine, containing China, stopping Iran from getting nukes, the GOP isn’t spoon-feediing leftist drivel into the school curriculums, the GOP isn’t packing the courts with leftist judges, the GOP state department doesn’t send our people out on a limb and then cut it off behind them, the GOP hasn’t been the biggest desisted to befall this country since the self inflicted defeat in Vietnam as has the Obama administration. I could go on and on but I can see that I am wrecking your fun. It’s more fun to say that there is no difference in party, huh.. that’s what reverberates loudest in the echo chamber.
What’s your solution?

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 7:07 PM

If you hate vets and love illegal aliens then Ryan/Rubio is your dream ticket.

Wigglesworth

Clinton/Murray will be much tougher on illegals and much kinder to vets, right?

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 7:10 PM

letting the country collapse …..V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 7:00 PM

Are you really stupid enough to believe that’s not going to happen anyway? You’ll just have a different powerbroker. Road to serfdom.

wolly4321 on December 16, 2013 at 7:15 PM

ton/Murray will be much tougher on illegals and much kinder to vets, right? V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 7:10 PM

No. Probably about the same.

wolly4321 on December 16, 2013 at 7:20 PM

Yes I did clip it to say ton . As in her ego.

wolly4321 on December 16, 2013 at 7:23 PM

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 6:49 PM

And you feel it’s imperative to spend your time countering what others post on HA and challenging the productivity of their efforts. How… productive… of you.

thatsafactjack on December 16, 2013 at 7:28 PM

the GOP hasn’t been the biggest desisted to befall this country

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 7:07 PM

Dictionary, please.

thatsafactjack on December 16, 2013 at 7:29 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CBVFpYN0iNo

Godfrey Bloom: The State is an Institution of Theft @goddersbloom

“It won’t be long till those people storm this chamber and hang you, and they will be right.”

Murphy9 on December 16, 2013 at 7:32 PM

wolly4321
Are you really stupid enough to believe that’s not going to happen anyway? You’ll just have a different powerbroker. Road to serfdom.

I’m not a traitor to the country, I am not rooting for it to collapse, nor am I stupid enough to believe that people would replace the constitution with something better. The mindset behind the “let it burn” nonsense is the exact same as the mindset behind the collectivists: You assume that you are going to be in charge, let alone have some say in putting it all back together. You won’t. When countries collapse they usually turn to collectivism.
It isn’t a conservative principle to root for collapse. And yes, I think it can still be avoided.

No. Probably about the same.

You are deluding yourself. Ask the 2 SEALs who, against the orders of the State department went to the consulate and faced down mortars and RPGs with just side arms and m-16′s (no body armor) how Hillary takes care of the people under her.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 7:38 PM

thatsafactjack

And you feel it’s imperative to spend your time countering what others post on HA and challenging the productivity of their efforts. How… productive… of you.

I don’t post here much, or anywhere else. That wasn’t a rebuttal by the way.

Dictionary, please.

Should read “disaster” as in ” the biggest disaster to befall this country”.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 7:41 PM

Every person who used to vote GOP and decides to stay home sends the GOP a 1 vote message.

Midas on December 16, 2013 at 6:03 PM

Correct.

Every one of *those* people who decide to vote Democrat instead, leverages that message to 2 votes.

Midas on December 16, 2013 at 6:03 PM

At a strong risk of being misinterpreted. Because the Republican Party establishment is covertly liberal, they’ll be biased to interpreting that vote as meaning that ultra-liberal policies are becoming more popular. The Liberal mainstream media will spin the vote the same way, trying to push the political class to the left.

Just thinking out loud.

Midas on December 16, 2013 at 6:03 PM

Me too. And I think third party is the way to go.

David Blue on December 16, 2013 at 7:52 PM

I’m not rooting for collapse. But you better wrap your head around 17+ trillion and ” our side ” doing jack squat about it. Not to mention the unfunded liabilities. I don’t want to replace the Constitution, I want to enforce it.

Maybe you think there is some easy remedy. There is not.

I haven’t given up. Mr Ryan has.

But hey,, let’s just get past 2014.

Fvck that. Fight now.

wolly4321 on December 16, 2013 at 7:56 PM

You are right about the 2 SEALS, though.

Thing is progs don’t care about us living either.

And there are progs in our party.

wolly4321 on December 16, 2013 at 8:00 PM

Why Our Consumer-Debt Dependent Economy Is Doomed

http://www.oftwominds.com/blogdec13/doomed-consumer12-13.html

Murphy9 on December 16, 2013 at 8:01 PM

Allahpundit: “It’s odd how not a single one of these pro-amnesty Republicans ever has their immigration epiphany as a candidate.”

Liars, all of them. What good is it to elect sellouts and traitors?

David Blue on December 16, 2013 at 8:04 PM

What’s your solution?

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 7:07 PM

Ny solution is to do an end-run around congress and seek nullification acts in my home state, and encourage others to do likewise.

(That’s your cue to tell me why my solution won’t work)/

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 8:05 PM

Allahpundit: “It’s odd how not a single one of these pro-amnesty Republicans ever has their immigration epiphany as a candidate.”

Liars, all of them. What good is it to elect sellouts and traitors?

David Blue on December 16, 2013 at 8:04 PM

Denial ain’t just a river in Egypt.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 8:08 PM

my. solution is to do an end-run around congress and seek nullification acts in my home state, and encourage others to do likewise. (That’s your cue to tell me why my solution won’t work)/ gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 8:05 PM

I’m down with that.

wolly4321 on December 16, 2013 at 8:12 PM

David Blue

Every person who used to vote GOP and decides to stay home sends the GOP a 1 vote message.

Midas on December 16, 2013 at 6:03 PM

Correct.

How well has that worked for the past 2 presidential elections?

Every one of *those* people who decide to vote Democrat instead, leverages that message to 2 votes.

Midas on December 16, 2013 at 6:03 PM

At a strong risk of being misinterpreted.

LOL! No it isn’t, it’s an endorsement of democratic policies. No room for interpretation there, you vote for the deems you are endorsing what they do.

Because the Republican Party establishment is covertly liberal

Where is this “republican establishment”? I

Me too. And I think third party is the way to go.

Because splitting the vote on the right won’t help elect people on the left…

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 8:15 PM

Because splitting the vote on the right won’t help elect people on the left…

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 8:15 PM

And voting for Republicans has brought us such relief and joy!/

Seriously, did you get the part about doing the end-run around congress and seeking nullification acts in my (and your) home state? The Republicans have failed us. There is no reason to think that replacing a few of them will do any good as long as Boehner, Cantor, and Rubio (and others) are shining stars of the GOP. “We the people” need to start being responsible for ourselves for a change.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 8:18 PM

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 7:41 PM

You’re right in your assertion that the criticism you leveled toward those who post here to express their opinion and frustration with politics isn’t rebuttal. It’s an attempt to silence those with whom you disagree by seeking to diminish the importance or productivity of their posting.

Speaking for myself, I find that offensive. Your time, your posts, and your opinions are no more valuable than any other individual’s who posts on this site.

Post what you like, when you like, but be prepared to see the issue addressed when you seek to silence others with such a silly and counter productive comment.

thatsafactjack on December 16, 2013 at 8:26 PM

Re.gryphon202

Ny solution is to do an end-run around congress and seek nullification acts in my home state, and encourage others to do likewise.

1)You have to be able to persuade people to do that.
2)State law doesn’t trump federal law. Presumably, if you are in a red state, most of what you object to is coming from the federal government. Short of sucession (and that didn’t work out so well the last time it was tried) your state is wedded to federal policies. If you live in a blue state you won’t be able to get the support anyway.

(That’s your cue to tell me why my solution won’t work)

Wouldn’t it be easier, faster and more effective not to re-invent the wheel? Why not push the GOP right but accept that you aren’t going to be able to elect rock ribbed conservatives everywhere? Instead of saying “If I don’t get Zombie Goldwater in Berkeley California I’m going to stay home! or vote for Obama as a protest vote!” Sure, you will have drooling idiots trying to purge you from their treehouse because they think when the government apocalypse comes everyone will seek them out while they are playing “Red Dawn” to put them in charge of rebuilding… but just remember; they will the first to wet their pants the minute the power goes out for their x-box and their mom can’t microwave them a hot-pocket.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 8:30 PM

Wouldn’t it be easier, faster and more effective not to re-invent the wheel? Why not push the GOP right but accept that you aren’t going to be able to elect rock ribbed conservatives everywhere? Instead of saying “If I don’t get Zombie Goldwater in Berkeley California I’m going to stay home! or vote for Obama as a protest vote!” Sure, you will have drooling idiots trying to purge you from their treehouse because they think when the government apocalypse comes everyone will seek them out while they are playing “Red Dawn” to put them in charge of rebuilding… but just remember; they will the first to wet their pants the minute the power goes out for their x-box and their mom can’t microwave them a hot-pocket.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 8:30 PM

I did everything I could to push the GOP right. There’s nothing left that I haven’t already tried in terms of conservative activism. What you seem to think, and what has been proven wrong time-and-again, is that putting a few pints of new blood into the body-politic will somehow push the GOP more to the right. It won’t. It’s the system that is broken. The system is corrupt. And I strongly encourage all people of good will to join me in leaving the broken system and returning to the one that our founding fathers provided us with in the constitution.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 8:35 PM

gryphon202

And voting for Republicans has brought us such relief and joy!/

Most people blame their families. Is that what government is for, bringing you joy?

The Republicans have failed us

How? Exactly. (Indulge me)

There is no reason to think that replacing a few of them will do any good as long as Boehner, Cantor, and Rubio (and others) are shining stars of the GOP.

Looks like you won’t be happy with anything, maybe you need to find an island somewhere and be lord of the monkeys.

“We the people” need to start being responsible for ourselves for a change.

Indeed, not voting or voting for socialists is a bad way of starting down that road.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 8:36 PM

thatsafactjack

You’re right in your assertion that the criticism you leveled toward those who post here to express their opinion and frustration with politics isn’t rebuttal. It’s an attempt to silence those with whom you disagree by seeking to diminish the importance or productivity of their posting.

So everyone should get a trophy for showing up. Yay for everyone!

Speaking for myself, I find that offensive. Your time, your posts, and your opinions are no more valuable than any other individual’s who posts on this site.

Bull. All ideas are not equal. If that were so 2+2 would equal 5.

Post what you like, when you like, but be prepared to see the issue addressed when you seek to silence others with such a silly and counter productive comment.

If you think it’s a good idea to vote for democrats as a protest vote against republicans you are a moron. Sorry, that is just a fact and saying otherwise certainty isn’t “counterproductive”.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 8:40 PM

Either we’ve elected the biggest bunch of p-ssies to ever serve in Congress or they’re a bunch of closet progressives who don’t have the stones to admit what they really believe(unlike the Dems who have the “decency” to openly be redistributionists and big spenders) and are jerking us around.

Doughboy on December 16, 2013 at 11:53 AM

It’s the “stones” one.

bofh on December 16, 2013 at 8:41 PM

Indeed, not voting or voting for socialists is a bad way of starting down that road.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 8:36 PM

The outcome will be the same no matter what.

You insist on trying to tell me that there is a dime’s worth of difference between the parties. It is self-evident that you are severely deluded. Whatever ideological gulf we have separating us can not be bridged.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 8:41 PM

Look at V7 engaging in that masturbatory self-congratulation! He knows that 2 + 2 =/= 5, so he must be absolutely correct in his support of the Republicrats Democans whatever.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 8:42 PM

gryphon202

I did everything I could to push the GOP right

What, exactly. Posting here isn’t pushing anything but computer keys.

“There’s nothing left that I haven’t already tried in terms of conservative activism.”

Maybe what you were doing wasn’t effective.

What you seem to think, and what has been proven wrong time-and-again, is that putting a few pints of new blood into the body-politic will somehow push the GOP more to the right

No, I agree with Milton Freedman in that politics is about getting bad people to do good things. Were we organized into anything other than a circular firing squad we would be better able to do that.
I suspect that when the person you wanted doesn’t make it through the primary you take your bat and ball and go home. Voting isn’t the end to your obligation, my “representatives” know my name because I’m on them after the factor, do yours?

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 8:47 PM

The change that would come is that the democrats would have complete control of all 3 branches of government and the USA would be finished. How many times do we need to learn the same lesson?
V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 5:54 PM

Really? That’s what the fencesitters said during the writing of the declaration of independence. And what they said when the republican party was founded. They were resigned to the status quo and hoping to survive it without risking anything. The question everyone has to ask is whether it is enough to settle for team red to win and eventually go bankrupt or to say ‘Stop! This is where I draw the line.’

AH_C on December 16, 2013 at 8:51 PM

gryphon202

The outcome will be the same no matter what.

No, it obviously isn’t. Thius presidency has been an absolute catastrophe for the country, a McCain or Romney presidency would not have been.
Was Reagan the same as Carter? do you even remember that? You chanting that there is no difference in politicians is obvious hogwash.

You insist on trying to tell me that there is a dime’s worth of difference between the parties. It is self-evident that you are severely deluded.

There are 2 platforms, GOP and Democrats, they are different. Is Bobby Jindal the same as Obama?

Look at V7 engaging in that masturbatory self-congratulation! He knows that 2 + 2 =/= 5, so he must be absolutely correct in his support of the Republicrats Democans whatever.

So is it that you are easily lead, easily confused or are you too working for the democrats?

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 8:54 PM

No, I agree with Milton Freedman in that politics is about getting bad people to do good things. Were we organized into anything other than a circular firing squad we would be better able to do that.
I suspect that when the person you wanted doesn’t make it through the primary you take your bat and ball and go home. Voting isn’t the end to your obligation, my “representatives” know my name because I’m on them after the factor, do yours?

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 8:47 PM

We aren’t getting bad people to do good things! We are getting bad people to say good things during the campaign and then stab us in the back when they’re elected! Christ almighty, how thick is your skull?! That’s my entire point! Milton Friedman was an economist, and God bless him, a good one at that, but he was no political scientist!

Do you really think Boehner has anything to fear from a primary opponent? Mitch McConnell? Do you think that Karl Rove quakes in his boots at the thought of being jobless? Oh f*** no! Get a clue!

The shit hitting the fan is only a fait accompli if we continue to trust politicians with the reins of power. And I’m sorry if you find this insulting, but the truth of the matter is that “vote the bums out” is no more than just trusting a few new politicians with the reins of power every cycle. As I said upthread, that’s an ideological gulf you won’t be able to bridge between you and I. But good luck trying.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 8:55 PM

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 6:49 PM

You know, you’re not uselessly f*cking the chicken – you *are* that chicken, champ. Maybe Boehner will give you a reach-around next time.

Midas on December 16, 2013 at 8:55 PM

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 6:49 PM

You know, you’re not uselessly f*cking the chicken – you *are* that chicken, champ. Maybe Boehner will give you a reach-around next time.

Midas on December 16, 2013 at 8:55 PM

Maybe he likes it.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 8:59 PM

AH_C

Really? That’s what the fencesitters said during the writing of the declaration of independence. ’

AH_C on December 16, 2013 at 8:51 PM

So you can find some reference to that in a history book…. I’ll check back.

They were resigned to the status quo and hoping to survive it without risking anything.

The status quo is Obama and the democrats. This is because in the face of an outright socialist 4.1 million fewer Republicans voted in 2008 than in 2004 and millions more stayed at home in 2012. Thanks for advocating for the status quo.

Stop! This is where I draw the line.’

More to the point, how do you draw this line? By empowering this who are doing what you supposedly object to? By giving them free reign?

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 9:03 PM

More to the point, how do you draw this line? By empowering this who are doing what you supposedly object to? By giving them free reign?

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 9:03 PM

Somebody left the irony on! Isn’t that exactly what you’re doing by continuing to support the GOP?

Let’s say for the sake of argument that Friedman was right. Given the GOP’s utter intransigence on spending and immigration policy, among other things, just how do you propose to make it profitable for them to do the right thing? I wanna hear what your plan is, Butch.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 9:08 PM

In all this, note that the Dems were in the minority of both houses and in the end, tied the House in the 45th Congress.
AH_C on December 16, 2013 at 4:22 PM

Because nothing has changed in the USA since reconstruction… Please, you are rationalizing giving them everything they want without a fight.

I[snip]
Splitting the vote on the right ought to really help elect conservatives, right? Look what the Bull Moose party wrought. Here, listen to this RINO.
V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 6:04 PM

You must be an establishment sock puppet and need to reread what I wrote.

My point was that holding only one branch of govt the dems in the house rammed thru Jim Crow by leveraging the power of the purse. Even when ALL they had in the 45th Congress was half the house – 50/50 split – they still bent the US to their will. And our quislings in the house haven’t the cajones to use the purse to bend the US towards fiscal sanity.

But do go on cheering for team red because that’s all you have. Those critters in congress, save a few stalwarts, don’t even represent 70% of the basic conservative tenents. They’re just at best blue dogs posing as republicans. We’re looking at the enslavement of our future generations and all you GOPe can say is ‘let me bed you one more time and I promise I’ll be true to you. But you have to let me in first.’

Well, screw you and the horse you rode in on. With allies like you, who needs democrats.

AH_C on December 16, 2013 at 9:09 PM

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 9:03 PM

Congratulations. You’ve made yourself completely ridiculous and employed the debate tactics of the LEFT.

You’ll get no more attention from me. I don’t read posts from would be bullies.

V7: “The beatings will continue until morale improves… and you vote the way I want you to… because the fact is that I’m terrified you people will decide not to vote for the RINO’s that I support.”

When I want a lecture from a RINO… I’ll ask you.

thatsafactjack on December 16, 2013 at 9:11 PM

Paul Ryan on the budget deal: Hey, we might fight on the debt ceiling instead

I think the chances that monkeys “might” fly out of my ass are much much greater than our rinos fighting on the debt ceiling.

RJL on December 16, 2013 at 9:12 PM

You know, Ryan, my lasting image of you for the rest of history will be your imperturbably placid nice-guy grin as Joe Biden stomped all over you. You fuc*ing muppet. Get lost.

rrpjr on December 16, 2013 at 5:04 PM

amen brother

arnold ziffel on December 16, 2013 at 9:14 PM

gryphon202

We aren’t getting bad people to do good things!

You aren’t getting anyone to do anything by ranting on hotair.

We are getting bad people to say good things during the campaign and then stab us in the back when they’re elected! Christ almighty, how thick is your skull?!

Way to toss your toys out of the crib. Why didn’t you answer my question as to what exactly you have done to push conservative causes and candidates?
Did it ever occur to you that having a tantrum de-legitinizes whatever argument you might be trying to advance? Be it here or in politics?

That’s my entire point! Milton Friedman was an economist, and God bless him, a good one at that, but he was no political scientist!

You sure about that? Regardless, was he wrong?

Do you really think Boehner has anything to fear from a primary opponent?

What, -exactly- has he done to let you down?

The sh*t hitting the fan is only a fait accompli if we continue to trust politicians with the reins of power.

Who asked you to trust them? Arguably that’s what you are doing wrong now, ALL of them are going to let you down. ALL of them in ANY system are eventually going to let you down. Now what? Vote for what you hate?

And I’m sorry if you find this insulting,

I’m a big boy.

but the truth of the matter is that “vote the bums out” is no more than just trusting a few new politicians with the reins of power every cycle

Where did say that?

As I said upthread, that’s an ideological gulf you won’t be able to bridge between you and I. But good luck trying.

I’m a conservative. A patriot. I want small government that is more accountable to the people. I want government to be a little scared of it’s citizenry. I want it to respect the people it represents.

The gulf seems to be that I don’t believe that lighting my hair on fire and voting for the democrats is the way to get any of that.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 9:15 PM

You know, you’re not uselessly f*cking the chicken – you *are* that chicken, champ. Maybe Boehner will give you a reach-around next time.

Midas on December 16, 2013 at 8:55 PM

You are a democrat, screwing with the weak minded. A Moby.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 9:17 PM

I’m a conservative. A patriot. I want small government that is more accountable to the people. I want government to be a little scared of it’s citizenry. I want it to respect the people it represents.

Bullshit. At best you are a coward. I’m beginning to come around to the view that you may very well be a sock puppet trolling the commentariat for some political house organ, but occam’s razor and all.

The gulf seems to be that I don’t believe that lighting my hair on fire and voting for the democrats is the way to get any of that.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 9:15 PM

Beat that straw man, Butch. Show me where I ever said anything about voting for Democrats. Doing an end-run around congress =/= voting for Democrats. By the way, what was that you were saying upthread about 2+2?

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 9:19 PM

You know, you’re not uselessly f*cking the chicken – you *are* that chicken, champ. Maybe Boehner will give you a reach-around next time.

Midas on December 16, 2013 at 8:55 PM

You are a democrat, screwing with the weak minded. A Moby.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 9:17 PM

Uh oh, Midas. I think you’ve just been served!/

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 9:20 PM

I kinda like the stealth, but then Mr. Sessions articulated artfully, that the House had castrated the Senate Conservatives.

May be time the Houses met and formed a GOP strategy instead of looking as punk as the Admin.

Jeese.
You call that compromise?

Ca PIT U LA TION

seesalrun2 on December 16, 2013 at 9:21 PM

Ryan said Republicans will will gather after the holidays “and discuss exactly what it is we’re going to try and get” for voting to suspend or raise the debt limit.

So, …The Republicans gave in on their side of the bargain…for nothing. and less than nothing…they *STILL* don’t know what they *want*.

yeah. prevent defense. …loses every time.

Now I know why Iowa loves this guy. …They’re just not bright.

a5minmajor on December 16, 2013 at 9:21 PM

AH_C

You must be an establishment sock puppet and need to reread what I wrote.

What is this “establishment”. Where are they? Do they have a street address? OR is it just everyone who won’t join in on the chorus?
My views are my own.

My point was that holding only one branch of govt the dems in the house rammed thru Jim Crow by leveraging the power of the purse.

Was there a 24/7 news cycle and cable tv blaming the GOP back then? Are the realities the same today as they were back then? Do you really think that the GOP could get away with that now? Months of no pay for the troops? No medical care for the wounded? Even the ones in Afghanistan? Can you just see the reports? LOL!

But do go on cheering for team red because that’s all you have.

I don’t think you have reasonable expectations as to what a slim majority in the house can accomplish. Further, I don’t think it’s ever smart to vote for the opposite of what you want out of the political process.

We’re looking at the enslavement of our future generations and all you GOPe can say is ‘let me bed you one more time and I promise I’ll be true to you. But you have to let me in first.’

You are looking at enslavement of future generations because 4+ million conservatives wouldn’t leave home to prevent the democrats from getting all 3 branches of government.

Well, screw you and the horse you rode in on. With allies like you, who needs democrats.

With “Allies” like you all we are going to get are democats.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 9:29 PM

With “Allies” like you all we are going to get are democats.

V7_Sport on December 16, 2013 at 9:29 PM

And with “allies” like you all we are going to get are Republicans. What’s your point?

What you and Karl Rove do in the privacy of the bedroom is your own damn business. I’m not interested, as I don’t swing that way.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 9:32 PM

Bishop!

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 9:34 PM

Aw nuts. I was one early. LOLOL Well, I think I’m done here.

gryphon202 on December 16, 2013 at 9:34 PM

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